Maksim Chmerkovskiy

the table ain't cold, I'm walking out of here. You're not grabbing every last dollar. But I just want to know did anyone else hear about that? Because my fiance sent me a video of bon bon Jovi and he was singing a song that like we all no, I can't remember which one it was, And I was like, who is what song is that? He said, It's not like shot? Is it Shot to the Heart? One of the songs that I think we all know. My guest

today is Ukrainian ballroom dancer Max Schmerkovski. Before Russia invaded Ukraine on February, Max was best known for his work on Dancing with the Stars, but when he escaped Ukraine, the world came to know him as an advocate. He stepped forward to share what is really happening in Ukraine and what it felt like during the invasion, so that we could all understand the magnitude of this crisis and

take action. His story is inspiring and a reminder that there's so much more work left to be done in Ukraine. Here's our conversation. How are you? How are you? I'm well, it's so funny to um have reconnected with you. I don't years ago. I think he did my talk show. But how do we know each other? To begin with? Is that how we first met? I don't I really know you. I don't remember how we met, but I think you did the show, right, I honestly, I don't remember,

to be honest, and I thought about it. I'm like, yeah, I know you very well. I speak of you on the first name basis. I have no idea why and uh, and I feel like we keep doing stuff together, but never really you know, we always kind of brush it off to like when we have time, we'll hang out and all that, but normally we just kind of like, UM, I don't know. I speak very highly of you. I think you are you know, great, uh, you know, entrepreneur. I look up to you know, success of people and yours.

I remember for some reason that you know, it's one of those successes that I that I looked at and I was like, yeah, this is this is very attainable. This is something that you know, industry can provide that. You know, I'm in the right place at the right time, around the right people, and you're people. So I don't you know, it's just like as far as what you asked, uh, you know, kind of like, well, we think of each other, we know each other. That's what I kind of feel like, I,

you know, know about you. Well, I've always liked you. I respected you and your brother, and uh, I know many of the people that are on this show, and it is a lot about people an attainable success. So I'm glad you brought that up. But I don't really many of my friends have come on and very successful people like Mark Cuban or um Nar Cheryl Sandberg, and I didn't know that much about them until we have

these deeper conversations. So I want to talk to you about your trajectory because we were friendly a long time ago and we both moved on in our personal lives and professional lives. And I don't know exactly what you've been up to and what your journey is like you lived in New Jersey and now you live in l a full time. Yes, I do. Okay. So when you were dancing on Dancing with the Stars, were you living where were you living as your primary residence New Jersey?

I was unfortly you are unfortly okay. Um, And do you consider where do you do you feel like Ukraine's home? Is that really where your heart is that? Do you have you? Or? And then in the United States is it more East Coast or West coast? Like where how do you feel inside? Yeah? Is I feel it inside? And I feel like it comes out more so than anything else. Is just Brooklyn? You know, it's not you know,

it's not a cute thing to say. Um. You know, Val and I talked about this all the time, like when you know king stuff like you listen, I'm not you know, I'm not, admittedly, but I did grow up in Brooklyn. That's my first sort of moment of entry into United States. And by that it's a huge point in my life. UM. And and to answer your question as far as when my heart is Ukraine and all that Ukraine is like you know, and I said it somewhat, Ukraine is like the parent that gave me up for adoption,

you know. And and at fourteen years old, when I'm leaving you know, my hometown, my birthplace, we up and we left. We were never coming back. It wasn't like, hey, let's go move for a minute. Um. No, we were going away. Uh. And when we landed, it was sort of like the family kind of like model for us to just like, Okay, here we are. We're now making it here. This is not what it is, that's not where we are. So I took it as such. I fell in love with the place. Obviously, there's a lot

to fall in love with New York. In New York City and you know nearby areas. UM had a lot of culture growing up. We landed in ninety four, so the second part of the nineties was like the renaissance in New York City was continuing, you know. And so I got a whiff of that. UM graduated Brooklyn High School, edward our model all the way went to Pace university, um, you know, did the things that New Yorkers do, and after a year dropped out because I had a business.

I opened my dance studio in New Jersey and they were just completely interfere with my business and my dance career and all of that stuff. So I came to university said to my I remember it was like accounting one on one and the guy came in and said, listen, you got a value of time and it was like the first class of the second year. And I was like, damn, man, I'm I'm in a wrong place, like I should. I just I need to be paying more attention to my career as a dancer and my business as a dancing

shot too interesting. It's funny that you said that you feel most connected to Brooklyn, because it is there is a soulful immigrant pride in broke places like Brooklyn, like the Lower eas Side of Manhattan, and there's a texture. I've been watching Boardwalk Empire recently, and there's a texture to places like this that is hard to really explain to people who didn't I grew up going to Brooklyn and Queens and it's just they're very multicultural melting pots.

So there's so much passion and soul and striving and coming from nothing and making something. So you know that that that definitely makes sense with you. The Constitution and your pride as a man, as a person, as a you know, an American man like you definitely have that background. I can I can feel that texture. I think that's very interesting and Brooklyn is very much that. Um So, did you grow up poor, lower middle class? Middle class?

What was your family background? Proud right away to take that probably lower middle Uh no, and I'm not knocking the ones that didn't grow up poor, you know. Is if we're just gonna break it down, just feel like we all have different opportunities. You know. I had an opportunity to, you know, to learn the language in a certain way, you know, to get woven into the um the life of the United States as a country a

certain way. You know. I got to I got to travel regardless of my financial status, which is a big deal because we consider travel to be vacation. Um I was traveling for my career as a professional dancer, you know, And so very shortly after lending us literally a week later, my dad parents decided that, um it is very important for the fourteen year old me to continue dancing and for the eight year old vow to step and start doing dancing as well, because that was the plan anyway,

you know. And so this is what this is where the fish are anchored. Me down. I'm gonna speak for me alone. You know. It was eight year difference, sorry, six year difference with Valve, you know value. You know I'm too, but you know us a little bit differently, and you know, we have a lot of similarities, but some things are bound to be different. You know. I experienced it. I experienced immigration as a teenager going into

sort of the years, right, um. But you know the thing is that I immediately moved on, right, so that the analogy of Ukraine being my birth mother who gave me up for adoption, US welcomed me, and I moved on immediately, you know. And so I proudly represented US from day one as a competitor. And now I'm flying overseas, now I'm representing a country. This was also the first time I got to do that, not because I didn't.

I would not have gotten to do that in Ukraine, by the way, we don't know, um, But if I were to continue dancing I would have probably you know, fought for the same, but I felt like it was a big deal bestowed on me, you know, myself and value. We wrapped hard immediately, and so and wait, you were that you were that good, like in all of Ukraine for your age, you were that good. Like you were you would be ranked in the top you know tier

like that. You were like you know, the Olympic athletes of dancing at that time, that we're just very good.

But that's a big deal in the US. I was not very good in Ukraine, but I was great in US because in the US it was just the beginning stages of the teens and the youth as we know it now, you know, and today obviously we're Dancing with the Stars as a concept that came on television and mid two thousand's thousands five, you know, we had a big renaissance or ballroom in the United States, Like what is this? What do these people do? Like what do

you mean? You know, I'm a US national champion, my brothers a seventeen time US champion, World champions, you know, all of these sort of like things started to come up and people realize it's a huge industry. You know that we didn't know about. So, you know, I was given this incredible opportunity. Came from Ukraine. I didn't speak the language, but had a skill dancing when I was four, Like I said, fourteen, I was not very good in

Ukraine's standards. Everyone danced very hard. Competitive career too, you know, to follow. But I would have done it, but I got I was I had a different you know, I had a different path. Nice. Wow, Okay, well that's interesting. That's like when people go over to you know, play basketball and Israel or something. It's it's true, and then come and then come back and actually do because what happened is us in the way that it was at the time and the confidence that it was given us

because the pool of competitors was much smaller. We were building the industry. We were then going out and representing us of the world, and we were doing amazing things. Well, that's interesting you're saying. If that's an interesting just note for people you're if you're in a cea of a bunch of people like you that are doing what you're you know you're doing, and you don't seem like you're shining to go be a big fish in a small pond.

Then come back to the big pond. You might have a different bravado, a different confidence, a different skill set where maybe maybe even your your charm or your personality comes through or some other thing comes through, so you could succeed back somewhere where you were just flat. I mean they were jumping. But you know, as a young father to a five year old, now, you know, I think about this all at the time. What skills set, how do I use it? How what do I give him?

You know, how do I boost his confidence? And then I get stuck on that boost his confidence. I'm like, you know, I my confidence was boosted when I moved to us, and all of a sudden, dance became my you know, my high card. You know. It wasn't like I was caught one, like you said, I'm in the big seal of like a lot of fish. You know, I got this pond and I was like, you know what,

I'm gonna take this opportunity and we were in with it. Um. And so the confidence, I was going to say, the confidence that you get from an opportunity where someone comes and says, well, you're great, You're special, this is a special skill and then you hear that, like, you know what, it is a special skill. And just because I'm in a in a class who in the city, on the country where it's super popular everybody does it does mean my skill is not special. People forget funny. So true.

It's true with kids because I know some people who have kids and they're frustrated that they don't have a passion, like you can't just force that, and they're frustrated that they don't have some purpose that they funnel their energy into. My daughter is an artist and she is passionate about it. She'll sit in an art room for hours and hours and focus on it. So this is that's so beautiful. Thank you she made she made I think twenty five of these. She made twelve thousand Ukraine. But it's nice

for kids to have something. It could be anything. It could be collecting buttons and just to sit in a room, not be on the phone or the TV, and to funnel and channel your energy. And so I foster that, you know, I mean, her teacher say she's the best in her I mean she's very good. But I don't know in the world. It doesn't matter. You just feed it. I keep feeding it. And you know, telling her how great it is, and you want to promote that because

you want them to just feel special at something. So I agree with what you're saying because it boosts confident. I'm actually I'm actually just quoting Peter. I gotta admit that, you know, she brought a lot of what I never had, or you know, the perspective that I never had into my life. And when we got together, the you know, shy is is like a perfect I hope would be a product of the both of us. You know, I'm

going to bring whatever I bring. I just feel like she levels me and she focuses my you know, this sort of spread out kind of energy drink. I'll go hard a where and she's like, well, why don't we just focus on things at hand? And amongst other ways that I feel. Now I'm realizing that she's controlling me to but that's yeah, but that's that's the reality is that you know, I know, hard upbringing. You know, I'm

not gonna say that our parents beat us. Now I got as a couple of times, but that was like not you know, I was loved and that's what made us not just survived. Brooklyn and the mid nineties, but you know, get better and and and grow and self educate or educate be you know, take things in. You know, we stayed passionate because we were coming out every day out of our apartment and we're like, let's go get it.

Because every night when we come home, every evening, and I feel like, oh, you know, you know, I don't have need friends, I don't have a social life. You know, I feel depressed as a teenager. I'm already depress and I'm depressed not in the speaking the language, you know, and all of these things. I would come home, I'd get a hug, a hot meal, you know this constantly. There was love, a lot of love in the house and so you know, they struggled and we didn't know.

We we knew, but it would kind of like everybody struggles, sort of like we made it normal and you know, let's go great to come from something, To come from something like that, the pride, to build something, to see it on the other side now, to then see your parents differently, I mean, all of that is really makes creates a texture in the personality. And I'm seeing it

three with you and I'm we'll get to Ukraine. But I'm I've seen it, you know, Like I said, I don't know you that well, but I'm seeing this come through. You do need to be harnessed in different areas. We even talked about that within relief, you wanted to do everything and you've got to be really focused to make an impact. But by the same token, I'm seeing that all of this purpose sort of coming to fruition in your life. At the same time, it's overwhelming. I get

it too, you know. You sure, we only have so many years on this planet. You're trying to figure out exactly how to focus and channel your energies on bullshit, on money, on this, on that, on philanthropy, I mean, you know, on relationships. Um so dancing with the Stars coming. You didn't come to this country for Dancing with the Stars. You came because of dancing, and you know it did create this resurgence or almost a beginning for ballroom dancing

in this capacity in this country. So it's weird this this intersection of luck and your skill and the entertainment industry that all came together. Probably for a lot of the people on this show, it must have been like, holy sh it, we're just dancers and no one cares what we're doing. We're in this niche, little weird world and now this becomes this mega, crazy, really household name hit. So how did that whole thing come together? Well, I mean, you know, we didn't think that that way, you know.

So the timeline is now, uh, two thousand five is eleven years after we've arrived in the US, and so in the eleven years leading up to UM, you know, we've done a lot, We've grown up. I'm now a professional who's basically retired from competitive ballroom dancing by going on Dancing with the Stars. I didn't know it at the time, but that's how it happened, right, And I

was ready for that two thousand five, you weren't. The first season though it was a ready a success or, it was not a success No, no, Well I missed the pilot season which was during the summer six episodes, and then the second season when it was coming around, UM, I would get the same call. And the way it was made, these calls were made this by Now this is the ballroom dancing is an industry. It's an industry in the United States, and it's a well represented industry

by US. Valle is now a two time world champion. You know, I'm now a big time you know, professional, but in the world, none of us. But I've been signing autographs in Germany since since early two thousands, you know, because because outside of the US, were a big deal. And so now you've got this ballroom dancing come to the big the big screen the television right at the time, and so people are looking at it like this is dope, this is awesome. I like it. It's corny, it's cute,

it's funny, it's interesting, it's athletic. There they all have accents. Why is this guy on my television speaking the way he's speaking and saying just weirdly constructed sentences, you know, But then he does the church and I did it. So it's a good description. That was just listen. You know, somebody told me one time that like the success of Dancing with the Stars is in the fact that it

was never number one. It was always like top two three, two three, two three, And so if you're number one, if you don't retain number one, you'd be like when you're two or three, it's like, okay, it's not for that show to go Dancing with the Stars that's somebody's favorite pastime for generations at this point. Yeah, it's unbelievable. I mean, we're competing with Monday night football for damn near decade and a half. Amazing. But and what's but

what's jumping off the page? It's funny because years ago I was going to Apprentice, and when I did that show, my friend said, they didn't show that you were funny, like, because it's all about the competition. It was about the competition, and even more so obviously on Dancing with the Stars. Your personality, I don't even think ever comes across like you're cute, you're funny, you're handsome, you're you could be a little tough, you know whatever, you're you're good looking,

but like you're fine. I mean, even the way you just describe that, like they should have had you doing the promo, I don't think your personality, even to this day, and even within with the relief work, you're so intense about it because it's obviously not you charming, but you have a really funny personality and a really good way of putting thoughts together. In my opinion, you're a good communicator.

Now that you know the subject is popular and we can talk Ukraine, but this the city I'm from, Adessa is actually a known for its comedic backgrounds in former USSR and just in general in that in that community. But yeah, no, we just have fun sense of humor. And if you lead with self deprecation, you can just go straight up be a stand up comic if you just fabulary to follow it. So um, look I should

try it. I have a couple of moments in my illustrious uh D answering with the star's career that are still famous for its just I can't believe this guy just said that, Like what, I cannot believe he just did that, you know, and so and this was naturally coming out. But you know, I was gonna answer your question about like people don't know me. I agree with that because there was a moment when somebody I was just completely always disappointed with the way I'm looking. I

look at the packages. At some point there was a period of time when I was you know that moment they showed before you dance and I'm like, wow, I look like an asshole, you know, Like why am I constantly this d bag? Right? Like? Why am I? Why is this? This is not my this is now have a field. It's now I feel neat. I'm proud and funny. I'm like, you know, swap but as a joke and

this is never serious. But anyway, the someone told me at that time one of those high end exacts in charge of all this stuff, and I remember, you know complaint. It's like, look, if you don't say it, we don't have it. I'm like, okay, cool. So at the moment, I was like right, But then I followed up with but I give you fifty hours of rehearsal time at that time, unregulated. I have a person that just needs a lot of time, and I dedicate my self. I

give it forty good hours. Or I'm in the room, I'm rehearsing and for thirty second piece, you're gonna choose only that, right, No think So for a long time I thought it was on me. It's not. It's under way that they need to have been the character that's told dark sess nonsense and it's like, is the you know, not per se guest stone because you never really feel bad for him. But I'm like that antagonist character that

was chosen to be and I didn't know. I didn't know that it was right, But well, I don't know because I think, like me, you have a resting bitch face. That's my just like you don't understand inside on the inside, I'm cute and cuddly. I just you're intense. I may be very cute and cuddly too, but I'm intense. And so when people see your resting bitch face or how intense you are, listen, I saw how you were during what went on with Ukraine, and it's intense. You're hyper focused.

It's the only thing you're focused on. And that's how you are with dancing. So good because it's hard to for people listening who are into business. You can't be, you know, a jack of all trades. When you're so intense about business. It's very serious. It's money when you're doing relief for it's very serious when you're dancing at that competitive level. So you are, you are intense in that way, and that's what comes across and frankly, that's

what the show was about. It was about the competition. That's why I mentioned it because I went through that with the Apprentice. It was not it was not The show was not that was to me, that was my intensity and that was the root of all of this stuff. The show is to entertain I get it. I didn't know that. I thought, oh damn, I was given an opportunity. Here you go, what do you do best? And I'm like, I go for a wind. That's my best quality. Like

you put me in the front start line. And if the end result is who finished this first, I'm gonna give them my own, you know, and then there's no dispute. Right. But if but then there was another component, this is entertainment, and another component it's not about value, right, and another component the judges. And this is also not about anything. So it's like it's just a lot of things that I was not ready for. That side, Well, it's all

about the Benjamin's baby. It's all about business. It's all about ratings. So if that's entertainment, if that's a competition, if that's sex sells, that's what it is. That's what it is on Shark Tank, that's what it is on The Apprentice, that's what it is on all these shows. That's what it is on Housewives. It's about the money and the selling. So how are you bringing people into your store? So whatever it is that people are doing they have a store, those are the windows. How are

you decorating your windows? And if it's you being that guy, then that's how that window gets secorated, and that's what you're portrayed to be. It didn't have somebody telling me that. I had somebody tell me that probably along the way, but no one really set it down like listen, you're not listen. You let just listen to what the war's up. Because I heard like, hey, you can't be this, or hey you shouldn't be that, and then my Grandma's like, m know what, you know, why would you say that?

You know? So it was never like hey, you know what, you can do that right. You can express yourself. You can continue running your brand right what I understand now, But you can do it in the way that everybody doesn't cringe, you know on Monday night when they relaxed after a long day of work and they don't want to see that. That's a different program. Right, Even in non entertainment, even in regular business, people have to stop

the stand back and recognize that. When I wanted to be on the Apprentice and I met with Mark Burnett, I was about the business. I'm successful, I'm not successful. I'm smart, I'm motivated. Whatever they wanted, yes, you had to check that box to get in there. Just like the dancing, you can't not know how to dance, but they wanted entertainment. And in business people, the people that are going to sixty it is the one who's going to be a bit arismatic in the meeting or the

one who's a little bit intense. Are the one who gets their thoughts across or the person who everyone wonders what they're thinking. It's the same thing. You have to be compelling to get your point across one way or the other. I mean, I have people that have worked with me, assistance and staff. If they're pleasurable to be around, if they're entertaining, if they're fun, if I enjoy them, that's gonna work better than somebody who's not pleasurable to

be around. So it's interesting how it works in so many different ways. Even if it's not entertainment, it's about what's drawing people in. And by the way, in philanthropy too, you know what's the message. I bet you saw this, and it's frustrating philanthropy for many people. Um philanthropy is is marketing in many ways. So ten different people want you to bring money into their places, right, and many

of them are middle men and women. Many of them these celebrities, now you probably know so much more than your new a year ago. I've been doing this for a while. Celebrities link here and donate here. But that celebrity does it know what that thing is that's to another place. So now you've stopped on a stop and you're giving money. But they're saying, what, I'm going to tell you to give money to me, and I'm going

to give it to them. Well, I want to talk to them, so I tried to be with them, meaning no, no, I'm in control of the money. So this is where the money is going. Being transparent talking about the problem. As you learned, you were telling about the problem in Ukraine. Then you were trying to direct people. But as you saw people get over it. It's cool for a week. It's cool, just like it's cool to watch Johnny Depp this week, but not next week. It'll be somebody else's divorce.

Last week it was cool that j Lo was getting engaged someone else next week. So it's weird because philanthropy, which you just got a real intense dose of is also marketing. It's a not for profit business, but you have to find your way in and no one to pull in. So anyway, I want want to hear more experience with that. Yeah, I had a crazy entry left entry way into philanthropy, into world of fundraisers and charitable life.

If you will, UM back in a day. You know, I just started playing golf and we are hot on Dancing with the Stars. This is like eleven, twelve and thirteen fifteen, I don't even know, years ago something like that. And I literally just hit the club for the first time. I had no business plan on the on the course, and uh, A friend of mine calls me. It's like, hey,

I was supposed to do this golf tournament. You go, Like, sure, I went, and it was for fundraiser of celebrity golf tournament for child health and I had no idea what that is. And so I got there and I see this expensive experience of golf golfing, and then you get together and there's an auction and then there's a night after and the gal and I was like, you know, the really raising money for these in battle you know, abuse, severely abused kids. Um I'm like, I want to see that,

and I don't know. It just irked me. When we were talking about this, I was like, oh, this is this got really down for a second. I've never been to these functions before. You know, it's fun. It's everybody's communicating and boomed down and fundraising starts and they say that stuff and you're like, you look around the room and like, it's not the right entertainment, you know program. At the moment, I thought, I was like, what do

you meaning. It's it's it's tone deaf to be here with all these celebrities at the highest level talking that thing you'd direct. They started, they started announcing like here's the you know, the pictures, and you know, I'm like, wow, this is really dark, and I'm like, is this event kind of like for that? But then so I got really confused. Anyway, so I wanted to follow up and went out and I visited one of the villages and it just blew my mind. You know, once you see

kids that were severely abused. She's tagging on your leg and she's like nine, it's village. Oh so so child help. This organ is sayation has three villages in the United States, the big communities where they bring the kids, um, rehab them, do their back. And so the point of this whole thing was this is a ninety plus million a year type of fundraising organization. So it's a big deal, Devans.

It's a big because I learned a lot and I understood the value of entertainment as part of this, because you've got to give somebody, you know, an opportunity to donate because they have such a great time. I learned the fact that you can't, you know, really frown upon the way people donating because who cares why he writes to check and with what face? As long as he writes to check or she writes to check, and this

goes to you know, the foundation, so you know. But then I learned the business side of this whole thing, and the dirty side of some other stuff, not through childhood, but through just in general, you know, fund raises and everything else. I helped old foundations and organizations. I left some because it was like, that's not the way, you know. I like this to be organized, and that's your way of doing it, and I want to be part of this.

When Ukraine tragedy happened and I would happened to be a judge on a TV show in Ukraine, a judge on a TV show I have at that time. You know, I spent like eight nine months actively working in Ukraine since last year, since twenty one, and I've started to you know, taking a lot of relationships and I created a lot of new relationships, and I you know, that's why not to jump out. But for me, this war has faced his names, last names, my manager who's now

a refugee with our kids. I mean, this it's just a lot. We'll get that. But you know, now I was there for consistently long enough and deeply rooted enough, every connected back and now that you know, I've rekindled and we've made it up with my birth mother. I still love my mom because that's us. For me, that's that's my home. I'm from, you know, that's where I met. But you know, this is now a relationship I want to continue, you know, and I want to continue figuring

figuring out. I was welcomed by the country, I was welcomed by the people, and I had a great time. The war starts, and so I feel like it was that moment when you know, I was for the first time in that child health village where it just shocked me. You know, there was a moment when the little girl tagged on my leg and she couldn't have been older than nine and kind of give me a look sleft me on the butt, said something sexy. I just blew

my mind. And then they took her away and the gentleman was explaining to me like, yeah, she was, you know, great since it was a little girl and so she's like in rehab, and it was just like, my god, Wow, that's a crazy story. That's a crazy way of getting into understanding why, no matter what, it is important to raise funds for this organization, for this type of foundation, because that's what they're dealing with, that's what they're doing.

So now it made sense to me. I was in I was committed cut to and you're you're you know that's years ago and now you're connecting to Ukraine kid and I'm now professionally, you know, committed to charitable opportunities because why else, because I'm a TV personality, what do I do for the world, you know what I'm saying, like, how do I paid forward? How do I earn that karma? You know, it's not the chart because you make I made you feel good, yes, but what else? You know,

it's not enough. And so I created the sort of subworld of just you know, helping and being charitable. I'm in Ukraine, got to February and I'm shooting a TV show dance then your world of dance in Ukraine, and I wake up in this war, you know. And so then I got stuck whatever that process was. Then in the process and now communicating with the people that I judged yesterday at dance competitions and today he's at the front line with the gun and I can't even connect

the two and I can't process it. Then the bombing started, Then Bucher started. Then you know, all of that nuns and started. By the time I got out of you, of of Ukraine and made my way back, and I was in war. So it was full blown. It was a war, and it was war on the people that I now this is these are my people, you know, and I'm proud of these people. You know. The Brooklyn is my people that you will ask me, you know, you know me. You love me, you love me. You

love me in Kentucky, you love me. In Alabama, you love me because I've traveled this country, because I've done it. If you don't like me, I love you too. But I'm saying I've been here. This is you know, I'm figuring out. I'm exploring other people and have some made this crazy connection and it happens to be where I'm from, and we speak the same language. And they're getting bombed and then bomb shelters so quickly, the executive producers of

my project and bomb shelters. I can even call him and be like, hey, get me out of the country because I'm like, what kind of presson? She's got kids. You gotta deal with that first. You know, it's crazy to right, they're the ones in charge to like help you as a talent, but in everts every person for themselves because and I try to like get myself off

of anyone's response stability. You know, the rest is sort of history now and sort of like I made my way out to Warsaw, I look back and I'm like, there's no way that this is the end of me. And relation to that, there's no way that I'm going to wait this out and get back to like guys, call me when the show is back on. It feel bad for you, Like, there's no way that that's my step, like regardless of what I feel and how maybe I was just too stressed and this is a crazy experience.

Trust me, will trust me for the people that are in it. You know, we're not we're talking levels, right, But for me, it was like an entry level experience in the war. You know, thank god I didn't get shot. We've been shot at, but it was terrifying to be anywhere in the vicinity of that. Oh no, you gotta complete wake up call that life, and whether you're Ukrainian or from Boklyn, it's it's just crazy that you experience that.

And then you came home and I know because we spoke, and you just wanted to be of service, and you wanted to go back because everybody's goal is to get the hell out of there. So you got the hell out of there, and then you felt like, wait, now you know you shall shock post traumatic, so you go back and I know that you've connected with my team and other teams and we're there for how long when

you went back? So you know, before I went back, I was you know, we spoke and uh and and and I literally just wanted to hear, what what am I doing? What is this? How do I process it? And you are you know, kind to just explain stuff and put everything in perspective and also give me a look into the business side of that too, because now I'm trying to be productive in the new era, in the new direction, taking with me everything that we have

and that I've learned about, even business. You know, my dad was so successful with the fourth Leade in New Jersey, you know um set up and then the sort of the sale of bar and over twenty seven the organization that we started because we were able to, you know, apply all the tools and elements of running our own you know, multilocational corporation of them, because you're not gonna scaling it. You scaled a small business. You're trying to

scale a small business. And that's what I was trying to say to you that like with philanthropy, there's only one you, and you have a voice and you have millions of people listening to you. So you could go do this one thing that is going to be lovely and nice and go into one house and help one person, or you could scale this, which is what we've done. And so it takes a little while, and I had

to learn that too. You get sucked down every drain and you go and you want to help every single puppy and every branch and every child, and you got to pick your spots because comes a scalable business. Yeah, because what people don't realize is in the conflict in war. I just don't want to confuse war with conflict. But in the situation this of this magnitude. I mean, you know how they say every little bit helps, I don't know about that. Like every little bit makes it a

messy situation. I'm so glad. I can't believe you just said that. No one said that except for my partners Michael, who you know and I people all the time, people in the entertainment industry, very successful people. I want to bring my son over. We have a trunk full of clothes we want to bring. I'm like, and I don't mean to be rude, I'm like, we have a hundred and fifty million dollar operation. If you know someone at

toys Rs. That wants to send me ten million dollars in toys, I can distribute those, But a trunk full of clothes I can't help you with. Or people we want to go over there. I want to bring my child to go over there. I'm like, okay, so when you get there, let me well, like, how do you coordinate it? I'm like, I'm not running like a team tour.

I've got you know, so the little things sometimes and what I mean to not be negative to people who want to help, because I was listening, Go to your local school, church, get organized, collect everything sorted, get volunteers for that. Then be like, we have this, we have a hundred T shirts in this these sizes, and then we can merchandise it. But but you are scaling a small business. You just said that. You know, you're talking about, Hey,

why don't we organized right there? Pause? Because that's not what she wanted to do. And to be honest with you, you know, I'm gonna have to call out some people because now I have that experience too. We're collecting over two hundred fifty thousand pounds and yeah, you know, uh with gam and be strong and Mike. It's a small fish in a big sea. But now I'm sort of understanding the process. I know how to funnel it the

right way. We have collected two hundred fifty pounds and you know, I'm gonna tell you he's talking about aid. He's collecting eight and then it's about distributing it. It's like literally like any other businesses, marketing, sales, marketing, distribution. He's got the aid, now he's gonna have to distribute it. But I was gonna say that I want to call out people who sent us stayed clothing and I'm talking staying like peace, things like it smells you know who

sent us uh past do food? You know who sent us past do? I don't even know how you find that hand sanitizes. You know that I like expired some crazy things that would expiration data was like years ago. And the call out is this, like if you decided to use this way to clean out your closet, don't

do that. You're not helping who are you helping. You're talking about people who lived a very you know, successful life in a in a in a in a European country that have now fled, and you are saying, here you go, you're welcome with with with something so degrading. You're not helping with the process. You you're hurting the process.

You sort of like say something Max, this is the thing that I try to tell people because they want to help people think because they can't give money that they want to help in this way and people's voice is more important. There are major corporations like Amazon, like Goya, like kind Bar, like Delta that will help if you're a credible relief effort. Okay, so we have those people, so you're we we implore you to be the voice the communicators. The switchboard Max is one voice. I'm one voice.

If you communicate what we're doing, those big companies will listen. So rather than dump out your trunk full of clothes, which will have to sort and it's not helping, your voice is worth millions of dollars because your vice voices who these big companies are listening to, and that's when they'll then give us millions of pounds of aid that we can distribute. That's why people have to be educated. Though they don't know. They just think, let me give

them anything. They're desperate and they don't know. I don't know people, Yeah, I mean, yeah, you're right. I would also say that, you know, if you are an organization like us and you decided to scale and you have this you know what they say organic attachment to the to the to the to the process. Um, you know we are Ukrainian. Baranova is a street and address in Odessa that's literally getting bombed right now where I was born, my dad was born. Baronova is the name of the street.

That's literally our address of place of birth in Ukraini. So that's the name of our effort. Yes, So I'm saying, like, with the experience of you know, entertainment industry that I have, it made sense. With the experience of the business uh set up and failures and lessons in business that we have, um, we're able to grow this if you are just a very very sort of philanthropic person by nature, and you feel from a very far away I'm not facetious about this.

I'm just kind of trying to describe the most of the people, you know. When I flew back from Warsaw too Los Angeles, I realized how far away I am, you know, and how far away all these people are. So unless you're into politics and geopolitics and nervous about you know, economic downfall and inflation and stuff like that, you're far away. You live your life, you might not

be connected. So if you're very philanthropic in that sense, and you saw this on the news, and you want to help send five dollars to to just five dollars to an organization you trust to do this, right you me, Mike us whoever, just five bucks you help more than if you send a lot of stuff that isn't something that I'm gonna follow ze because now I'm in costing me somehow some way to dispose of it if I'm

not smart enough and I have somewhat common take me right. So, like now we're working with other organizations that unrelated to your relief efforts, you know what maybe related to like you know, we just literally dumb clothing we don't need back into the now it comes a whole I get exactly well, So you're learning that it's very much like

running a successful business. And the thing I want to say about that before we get onto your business is you can't trust every organization or relief effort, just the same way that you can't trust every business. If you think that every single business is run well and successful, great, then that's what you think of charity. But if you realize that every business is not run well and successful, you will realize that every philanthropic effort is not. So

do your research. The way that you're investing your money to invest in philanthropy and someone who's doing it themselves like you are and passionate is a good start for sure. Um, your business, So you went to for nine months to Ukraine and we're on this show. You're still an entertainer. You're still working in the entertainment industry. What is your core business? How do you support yourself? What's your goal? What are you building towards? What's your business now? What

do you do for a living? I mean, it's it's it's interesting because you know, we have to also mention that we're just coming out of craziness for a couple of years that we've just lived through, you know, with pandemic. Oh no, I know, and I'm changing my entire career too. But I'm asking for something. What would they do? I'm a dancer, I say, you know, when people ask me like what do you do? You know I'm a professional dancer. Oh great, Oh it's like that show. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

oh yeah, I haven't seen you on it. And I'm like, yeah, well I don't. I'm not on the number. What do you do now? Okay, well now I own a chain of dance studios. You know, we have fourteen locations high end social dance studios that are called Dance with Me in eight states. We're very proud of that. Weeds my brother, my dad, and a business partner, and and the team of people that we've worked with for a very long time.

Some of them, you know, some of whom were my ex students who became at some point part time than full time. Now they're like, you know, corporate directors. So you know, we have a great company that we built from scratch, like I said, learned a lot on um. And again the beauty of that is it's in eight states, and that that gives me an opportunity to experience every kind of person in the United States, you know, and and understand every kind of market in the United States.

And also maybe we set ourselves up for a little bit of like economic you know, ups and downs that we can regulate because we are not just in the New York State where you know, for example, COVID laws were a little different, but we also have five locations in Texas where COVID laws were a little different and allowed us to continue staying afloat. So we did some

things that you know, we're proud of. What well, I guess that's good for me to um the last question, which is your rose and your thorn of your career? The high and the low of your career? Um, the higher and the low. I think you know, if you talk about career and the business and it's finance and finances, you know it has to be financial, you know, the highest you know I have, I'm I'm in two most expensive,

hardest to succeed cities, you know, New York City. I have a you know mentioned and you know cars, and I'm supporting my parents and you know, my brother in

a way. And then you know, I'm also in l A. And I'm just like this the Bachelor on at at some point top TV show, you know, for a period, for short period of time, we were like the top TV show in the country, and probably you know, probably ran sort of like you know, the reality genre of TV, you know, landscape at that time, right, And so I have my life in l A and the entertainment industry.

So I'm like, I'm feeling I'm feeling that, right, and then and then I feel the confidence and I'm like bamm, and then the wings spread, and that's what I realized. It wasn't the confidence the cockiness, you know, and it's like everyone has that, and it was literally I was watching somebody else who's super successful. Oh shock, you know, shock, You're asked shack. He's like, he's literally just said that.

It's like, you know, you think you're perfectly not perfect, and then he says, you know, Penny Hardaware relationship was awful, Kobe Bryant relationship with Big Mistake. This is the guy who at the time was pumping himself in the chest, I'm the best that you're nothing about me. And I'm like, wow,

that's so familiar. You know, today we respect the guy for his entire career, everything he's done right, but he's admitting to the stuff that we were witnessing, Like, yeah, that kind of seems wrong, Like don't you think and you know, I have to look to drink your own kool aid. I'm saying everyone dreams their own kool aid. I'm saying everyone who gets into this and loses their head with the success drinks the kool aid um. I don't have that. I don't have the mension, I don't

have the whips on both sides. That's how you know, I was saying in b k UM, I don't have that part of my life right. A couple of years ago, I was gonna say, pre pandemic, things exploded, you know, personally, not you know personally, but like business exploded, there was some other things just exploded, and things that I felt secure about not and things that I felt insecure about became the sort of the life the refts. Right, it's all just very a little trivial, but it's all personal.

But it's again it's describing what everyone goes through. Whether you're you know, in finance and you know you had money in the wrong stock, you know, and and then this happened, or whether you and you know me and I don't know whether if you're a professional athlete and you I don't know, God for a bit broken me, you know what I'm saying like that, That's how I look at it, Like I had a financial career that took a hit, you know, and I needed to and

I got depressed, and there was points and there were law in life, and then I was just starting to come out and then bank pandemic and again would feel like, oh my god, the world is coming to an end. This is very why me at this time? That's how you by you, why the whole planet and so and to us, it gave us an opportunity to come Okay, cool, Well you know what this is too crazy? You and your brother? Are you and your father? Are you in

your whole family? Just me by myself, Me and my had to you had But this is what you've done. You had to pull yourself up in your bootstraps and figure the ship out. And you did like you got you got organized, and you like did what everybody did in the pandemic. You got your shipped together and shook it up. Yeah. And and and I feel like I you know, I feel I feel different. I speak different, and my train of thoughts different, and I look forward

to different things differently, you know. And again that's and again just bringing the soul back, and then the fam and it's again end of the world. We're in war. What is happening? You know what I'm saying. And then once again and now you and I was just an exercise of of don't lose your head, you know, no matter what, and every down follows by up, you know, it's just natural way of things. Um, and you know

the black stripe and white stripe. They you know, So there's certain things you're in control of, certain things you're not in control. I'm in control of every single reaction that I that I make. You had, you hit multiple back to back doses a reality, but the final dose was the war, which made you realize that none of the ships you were even worried about mattered, and that life and death mattered, and that child trafficking matter, and

the family mattered, and being safe mattered. And so you really I think that's the whole reason for you having some PTSD, all of the things you just described, not just the war, but personal, a personal low, financial hit, a pandemic, a war. And now you're coming out on the other side. Yeah. And the perspective is like, listen to five minutes that I was negligent with, you know,

spending with my son. Oh, that just don't be negligent, because when is that Like you're gonna look in the bank at some point metaphorically and be like, you know, I wish I had all those five minutes, yes to gether right now, you know, and and had more of that time. You're gonna feel that way at some point not being philosophical about this something you know, you can't you can get that the money, who cares about the money. You can get the money, but you can't get the

time back. You cannot get the time back. And so it's quality of time, quality of time for me at the moment, multiplied by you know, just quality of time with the multiplied by the right people. You know, really because then you you know, you get something out of it. You you give a lot and and you don't you know, yeah, I just don't want to digress. But I think one of the things that really helped is that is that

the circles. The circles also change, and I think it comes with you know, now you have a kid, you're a different person. You know, you're a different person. Will get married, you're different person. We have a child, you're a different person. Where you have to because now you come back out like guys are back, you know, and then everybody's like, now we just now got our first so we only started. So you know, for me, a lot of that stuff is also relevant. My circle of

people changed a little bit. People that are in my house every day, I'm not the same people that used to be you know, and so it's just this interesting. Life is incredible. Well, life is incredible. It's an amazing place to end. But it's funny because you made you. You expressed that your rose and thorn are one. They're like a circular reference, the high and the Without that, Hi, you wouldn't have hit that low. But that low is now turning into a new high because it's more like

it's with perspective. So I think it's life is beautiful. It's a great place too. And I appreciate you, and I appreciate the discussion and now really getting to know you, because now I can definitely say I know you. And I appreciate all the awareness you've raised for Ukraine and being so passionate about it and finding that new side of your life, and your wife being my the one who is communicating with me, my switchboard operator to talk

to you no and listen. I thank you so much, And again I just want to have to say mentioned thank you. Mike. Mike Caponi is a big dude, and it's like as a big it's a big influence. You know. I'm I've yet to know him as a person. You know, I'm not gonna lie he's talking about my partner in

relief for who's on the ground still in Poland. Months later, he dedicated his life to philanthropy, had a very screwed up life and pulled himself out of the dumps of life on his own, and he's dedicated his life to philanthropy and he worked together and found each other. Yeah, no, it's incredible what what you guys have done with Jim be strong and then and and the lastly, you know, the war in Ukraine maybe overstune may not, but the

damage is unprecedented. And unprecedented is not a word you can't say a lot, right when I say I'm precedented is yeah, but we had World War Two, Yes we did. We didn't use things as he has been used now, and the destruction was kind of different type of destruction. And uh, I feel like there's no comparison, and it's

not about that. But my generation has probably never seen that, you know, And so I feel like, uh, the reason why I need to continue doing this is because for a very long time after the relief effort that I chose to be a part of, the humanitarian is going to have to continue. Oh no, well, we we always say we're there long after the headlines fade, and unlike a hurricane, which stops and then you're dealing with the aftermath, which is horrifying. And we've seen so much in Haitian

the world. This is still ongoing. It may not be at the same favorite pitch, but once it stops, you're dealing with what you were dealing with after Hurricane Katrina, but you're dealing with lives and relocation and crazy stuff. And not everyone is interested in this all the time, which is why, uh, my unsolicited advice to you, Max is pick your time to talk about it and make it really compelling, because effectively, you are marketing. You have

to get people interested in. If they hear it too much, they zone out because they want to hear about what somebody wore to the Grammys. They don't want to hear about People don't want to hear about death and destruction. It's sad, but it's true. You have to. That's that's my next that's my next level of understanding and compartmentalizing my efforts and making sure that I'm still putting out

a lot. Yeah, Michael wants to post five times a day every day, because that's what he's doing and that's his main thing, and he is a core group that wants to hear that when he wants me to, I actually lose followers, believe or not. If I post a picture of myself in a bathing suit, it will do very well. But you post a picture yourself in a bathing that I promise you will do very well. You

post a picture of Ukraine. Right now, they're full. People are there might be a cool thing that happens tomorrow where there's a fire somewhere, and that's the cool thing to talk about. And it's sad to discuss it this way, but that's the fact of the matter. So I say to Michael, I'm not posting right now about this because people don't have the bandwidth for it. Will do better if we wait until they're digesting it and have something important to say and some takeaway, and then we can

raise money again. But you have to just remember you have to go with the EBB and flow. It's you can't change people. This is the way that it is, and that's why you can be successful. What you are successful in these efforts because you apply the marketing know how. The marketing steals. People are yelling at me NonStop, screaming at your phone. They're judging you for what you just said, Like,

how can you say that these people are dying? Yes, you're right, but that's why I'm doing it this way because that can make bigger impact and big time exactly how to utilize my voice. Everybody's talking about how healthy avocados are. We are, well, avocado is healthy, it's a healthy if. Every day they're telling you about avocados, You're like, I don't want any avocados anymore. So you have to you know, it's anything. It's there are people dying in Ukraine,

their kids going to traffic and their orphans. We've extracted hundred fifty million dollar effort. People don't want to hear about right now anymore than they want to hear about my business, my television career anything. So there's just a way to do it, and it's just it is what it is. So that's why I said a little bit that' to your wife and to you because you're passionate about it. But going in and out and finding your way will be really really amazing and you've done amazing things. Thanks

Thanks Max, have a great day. Okay, So that was that was really interesting. I met Max through my superficial life of entertainment and reality television. We uh stayed in touch. When I got deeply involved in an effort in Ukraine, I realized that Max was there, maxim was there and connected with him and connected with his wife and was concerned about his safety and what was going on and how he was getting out. And then he wanted to

get involved in philanthropy there. And we have a massive effort, uh more than a d fifty million dollar effort that will take months and months to continue with and we've extracted orphans and we have multiple warehouses and my partner Michael Capone and JEM, which is Global Empowerment Mission, are still on the ground uh and doing the heavy lifting,

to be honest. And Max went and visited our warehouse and he became connected and we've helped him a little bit too to kind of give him some of our experience. So he's had an interesting life. I think it's nice how he was humble about taking a financial hit in his life, a career hit, uh, trying to rebuild and getting hit with the pandemic, trying to rebuild and getting hit with a war and just being honest about the struggles.

So it was a different type of interview, a different type of guests, and I'm really glad for the conversation, appreciative and I think you'll enjoy it.