Hi, Hello, Hi Bethany.
How are you good? Where are you?
I'm in Minnesota Meadows.
Yeah, okay, nice? This is you know Nat. I mentioned her incorrectly in a Dave Portnoy story on this podcast, but I had seen her on TikTok, and I think the first time I saw her, I wasn't really aware or fluent on is it called citizen or citizens journalism? What do people call it? Citizens or citizen?
You know, I'm not entirely sure. I guess citizen citizen journalism. I wasn't super familiar with like the actual word citizen journalism until you brought it up. Actually, I'm not like a self proclaimed journalist. I didn't start my page being like I'm gonna report on things. I started my page because I was a stay at home mom who was like desperate to talk to an adult after singing Baby Shark all day, and so I just started making videos being like my kids napping and this is what I'm watching.
And so really I started just like talking about what I was watching, and it's turned into like, you know, reporting on things and being kind of boots on the ground, and I'm learning about citizen journalism.
I guess. Interesting so I was the first person to say that term to you. Yeah, I think so fascinating, right, because like, oh, that's what it is.
That makes sense, you know.
Yeah, No, it's a term I had heard, and what's interesting, and people really love it because people don't trust journalism as much anymore and they're h I've seen bullshit journalism all so many times, and I've seen people be bought and owned by different companies and then act differently and tell stories differently. And obviously you could listen to Fox and hear one thing in CNN and hear another. So that term came to me through TikTok, like that's what
I realized it was. And to be honest, when I first was on TikTok, like in a meaningful way, when I saw the people with the little microphones, I thought it was like ridiculous. I was thinking, wait, people, I think they're journalists. But then I evolved into thinking, well, what is a journalist or just someone who's doing research and trying to get their facts straight and get sources and report a story or mix together a bunch of other stories and then have their own take on it.
So I realized it's not ridiculous and you're a good example of that.
Well, thank you for saying that. Definitely, I think that it's become such a genre because you're not worrying as much about like are they getting paid to talk about this? Are they getting paid to not talk about this? You really can find a niche where you can listen to a person that you want to hear commentation on it, and it's usually like me, something that I just really
enjoy and like do for myself. I'm doing the research because I'm following this stuff, and so you don't have to worry about like am I telling you this because there's a profit involved or you know, I'm just kind of saying like, this is a crazy story that I heard about. As well as being able to get things out I think quicker than like official, you know, news agencies, because I can pick up my phone and say, like, did you guys know that this is going on? Yeah?
And that turns into a lot of these news agencies. You'd be surprised how many of them are actually using these TikTok videos to then write their whole articles.
Right, has that happened a lot? How many times does that happen to you?
Oh, a lot, a lot. I tried to make a list, and I have like a few top examples, but it's happened with all of them. Cosmopolitan, Page six, Perez Hilton, US Weekly Showbiz Today. I mean, I can go and find my videos in these articles, but they'll refer to me as a TikToker. So they don't need to have your name, right, they don't have to use my name, they don't have to source us.
But why wouldn't they use your name just to if they're saying a TikTok or what's the difference? The credibility is, like it's not their thing, so why wouldn't they use your name?
I don't know, I don't know. I think that it's probably not purposeful, right, they just don't think about it, like, oh, this is somebody who just posted a video and now it's mine and we'll use it and write this article. I guess where the credibility comes in is if I'm not being if you're not saying this is her video, then I can ever get verified for me to like have credibility. Yeah, so that's like, yeah, the delete there. I guess.
Well, I have a couple of questions. One yes, to the what you said before. It's content to the people, which I really have learned to just you could change your entire life based on it. You could change everything you do. You could self publish a book, you could never go back on, edited and produced and press, tour, marketed television again, which is how I've sort of changed my life. I didn't notice you, and I did notice
you a while back. You seem to be you know, not you know, not caddie, enough of that to be like, you know a little bit of like pop culture. But but you seem to be thorough And I've noticed you, not just recently when you specifically talked about me, but even times talking about other things. And I wanted to note, do you get paid by Are you making money? Is this a business at all by anybody?
No? I mean I'm in like a creator fund, do one TikTok, so that would be like my only income, which is like very inconsistent and like forever changing. So yeah, as of now. No.
So all of the people that I see that are like you, that go and they go to Bravo Connor and they talk about it and like they're flying on their own dime. They're not they're just getting a bigger following, but not able to monetize it in any way.
I'm not entirely sure. So there are some bigger creators who I think were invited to Bravocan, so I'm guessing that they had like some accommodations. I think that there are brands that are reaching out to some bigger kind of journalistic people, you know, paying for their expenses to go to events like that. But uh, I don't know. I just don't know about monetizing. I don't think that I've quite reached that limit yet.
And that is your goalfend to be sort of a career or you're still just having fun with it as a mom.
Well, I'm having fun. I kind of still post my videos thinking like nobody is going to see them, Like that's always kind of been my vibe is like I just say stuff like I said, I'm looking for adults to talk too. I didn't want to be doom scrolling on TikTok anymore, so I was like, I might as well just like create when I have a moment to myself and put it out there. And like I said, I post videos like nobody's going to see them now,
like people that I'm talking about are seeing them. So I don't really know where it's gonna go from here, but it's picking up and it's super fun. And like I said, it's something that I do to like procrastinate, So if I could make a business of it, that would be ideal.
First of all, have you been on anybody else's podcast?
Knows what I want? This is my first podcast ever, and I am honored to be on this one. This is awesome.
This is a good one to be honest, that we do pretty well, So that's exciting.
Yes, this is a good first podcast.
Yes, that's amazing. Okay, so hopefully you'll be able to use that street cred. But what does it mean? So now coming on here, do you think about like that the people that you're talking about, like they're real people.
So I'm here, like I was looking through I didn't know, Like I was like, oh wait a second, it's fine because I've been talked badly about, but that you were saying, I say crazy shit on his app and you were like comparing me to Donald Trump back, I guess in the beginning, So like were you like, oh my god, I hope she didn't see that cringe, I'm going on our podcast, or you didn't think of that.
I didn't think of that. I mean, I just I, like I said, I say shit as if nobody's going to see what I'm saying, and people seem to listen. And I try to be like you said, you know, you want to watch somebody that you enjoy hearing commentate it. So I got to give it like a little bit of my opinion and edge, but enough to like get away with it. That's art.
Yeah, I agree. So it's called you know nat, and I shouted you out, and I shouted you out in the wrong name because my eyes TikTok. The writing is so small, and I was looking down and I thought it was I thought the whole time it was you know that.
I'm sorry that that happens. I've done it. I get it.
But that's a happy accident because that's how we got.
Here, exactly. Yes, blessing in disguise.
Yes. So let's go over a couple of things. Okay, So first and foremost, what do you think about uh Ramona allegedly I think you might have been the one that said it that she allegedly just showed up and crashed her premiere even though she wasn't invited.
I heard that, Yeah, I saw that. So that was a headline that I did post about. And I don't know, I think that that's possibly true, right, I mean it seems like a very Ramona thing to do. I was kind of wondering if she would be involved or how they were gonna like cut that, and like, of course she showed up and was front and center for all of them, all the.
Pictures, Kerry, It's very Ramona. Because Ramona, something happens. The one day she says something to you and the next day it's like it never happened. And she has a gift of torching the kingdom and the next day acting like it's fully intact. That's her gift. I would be hiding in another country for a long time, like just wanting this thing to rinse off, and instead you go to a premiere and then it brings up, bubbles up all the headlines again.
Right, everyone's gonna talk about it. I mean, that's a thing that could happen, right if she just showed up there, Like, who's gonna tell her, no, you can't, you gotta go. You didn't have an invite, she wasn't that cast. It could have happened.
Well, And I ask you if you think it's hypocritical as a fan of these shows, that Ramona is being held to a different standard than other people, is that happening?
I think that Ramona has like consistency in acting this way. So I think that, like we've seen her throughout the years kind of treat like staff badly. She's kind of like known for being not pleasant to people who she maybe thinks are lower than her. And I think that that's something that like fans truly believe. So then to hear her kind of go off, it's like believable that that's not it's edited, it's not, yes, exactly, it's not
a one off. It's not I think that's her. I don't know her, but I think as a fan.
So you're a and you like to do this investigative connecting the dots. You really are like like a detective mom. And so you were noticing that I took a TikTok down and then you were correct in that, and I think I said it. I said that I wanted to do it here because sometimes I'll do something there and be like or even my team here would be like why wouldn't I put it on my podcast? This is like this is where I live, This is my home,
and over there you're just you know, playing around. And also more importantly than that, because I do tiktoks all the time that I don't do here. It's a longer format. Here we can have a conversation that breathes, so over there you're just throwing something up and trying to like get it in or not have it be too long there because no one's gonna have the attention spent there. That's not the store for that. So but you've clocked that, And I want to know what you think of that.
Is that like a bad thing to do? Yeah, that doesn't matter.
No, I don't think so. I think the rule of thumb is if you post, somebody already grabbed it. So I've heard people say like, if you if you're gonna delete, just leave it up because somebody's already got it.
But it lives. But it lives right.
Right, it lives and a different platform. Yeah, No, I think that that makes total sense. And I think that clocking those things is a new word that I've learned recently just about like media literacy and just being able to like judge those I think that's just kind of how my brain works. Like I saw, you know, I saw people freaking out about if Raquel Levis was getting paid for the interview she did with you, and it was just so obvious to me that, like there was
some kind of transaction. Nobody is gonna like let her do that without you know something, and you're pitching a podcast at the end, so it just becomes like, come on, let's connect the dots, guys, and.
I'll tell you the breaking story, the true story, because you're the one who said that. The true story is that I didn't really know who Raquel was. Peripherally I did. I hadn't seen the show as as as many people you criticized that. I didn't watch ten seasons to talk to a person, so I didn't know who she was, but I anecdotally knew that she had this crazy thing happened, and I kept thinking, like, aren't they all drinking? Aren't they all cheating? I've been hearing everyone she you know that,
then they're working in this bar. And I also know the medium because I worked in it for years. And then I said something just anecdotal about her during the Reality Reckoning, and I think I was the only person that ever stuck up for her, and so her representative called me as a result. And I didn't think, to be perfectly honest with you, I didn't know that she
was such a big get for the podcast. Like I didn't think that that was a big get because to me peripherally, that was the girl who cheated and was in the scandal. But like, okay, so she's this pariah, Like I just it was sort of casual, and then once she reached out and it was like sort of a big deal for them, like that she hadn't said a word. I didn't know that either. I didn't know that she had been like in an island. So it was all the planet's like converging at the same time.
But they had already been talking to iHeart before before I even knew about that they had been having a conversation. It never came to fruition. So my conversation with her brought it to fruition. It was like now they were back talking about Now they were back talking about it again. I thought it was a good idea and if I wanted to possibly do it, then maybe iHeart would get behind it. So it was like sort of all these things converging at the same time.
You said you were like one of the few people kind of sticking up and showing loyalty to her, and so for her to like feel like, oh, that's a safe one I could go on. I'm sure that everyone had offered her, So that totally makes sense. And that's the things that like I wouldn't know details, no, but I just put things together as I can. And then some of my videos are just like, do you guys
think this is possible? This is what I kind of like I said, I'm just talk to people kind of like it's my friends or my family, Like I'm just putting it out there and welcoming.
Well and well, and there's clickbait and I get it too. I do it. You know, we're not sitting here putting out clips for this podcast that aren't going to rate. So is it? What are the things that if you talk about, you're gonna rate?
Bravo stuff. A lot of Bravo stuff hits Janelle with teen Mom. That's a big story all the time. People like to keep updated with teen Mom. A lot of them are shows that have been on for these ten year runs, So vander Pump Rules, Beverly Hills, Housewives, Teen Mom, these ones where we've kind of seen the cast and there's fans who have watched from the beginning, and we feel like we've got this like longitudal study of their life.
Those are the topics that people like really get involved in, really feel like they know the people, or have like a parasocial relationship. So there's definitely some.
Like the Ramona you called back, some things that people would know, like you, you're all in a relationship with these people, so you can say to me, when Ramona did that thing in the kitchen about Dennis, you remember it?
Yeah? And something about that makes I think makes people feel like they're like kind of part of a smaller community village, which I think so many people crave, like if we can talk about the same people and the same thing is going on and almost makes us feel like we're all in the same town hanging out or you.
Know, yeah, okay. And then this is what shocked me. First of all, recently I realized that I think the comments on Instagram are more psychotic and hateful than TikTok, And that's crazy because I always thought that like TikTok to me, it's the wild wild West, Like one video you could do, you could cough and it could get a million views, the next one could get three views. Like it's a very it's a very precarious place. But
and I guess it's across all social media. But I find that I will think that I or someone is being quote unquote canceled, but they're literally being renewed because all of you guys are talking about it and it's driving traffic and people are listening, and like you think you're not you're doing something wrong, but you're doing everything right. And there are hate pages about you. But the more you're being hated, it's an indication that you're doing well on this weird universe.
Right, people are talking, right, like Mikhayli.
Gate, the Misscaragate, there were at that time there were fifty four million views on the video. Do we think she gives a shit about a couple of days that she was upset when Loriel is printing money and misscarat and so she like everyone was acting like she was getting canceled.
And that's how I found out about her. So, like how many followers did she gain from that scandal. I think that that's definitely true. I think cancel culture is kind of over. Like there's some people who have done some pretty egregious things on the internet, which comes back to white citizens. Journalism is important because they shouldn't be able to hide those things. But even when these people have been kind of outed, people are talking about what's
going on, they always they come back. Like Colleen Ballinger took a couple months off, she had some involvement with children and that kind of thing. You'd think that that would kind of be the end of it. She's back to family. She's back to family vlogging already.
So yeah, and you guys are moving markets though. You guys are moving product. You're moving product, you're driving downloads. I mean, it's happening for real.
That's good to know.
Yeah, a lot you're moving.
I think we're definitely getting eyes and getting views and like you said, getting people over to these podcasts that are connecting the dots you want to hear, like what was the answers? What did this person have to say? And then what did the other podcast what did they say about that in the podcast? You know, putting clips together? I think definitely drives people to watch both people's podcasts, and yeah, there's definitely a business there.
So you were surprised that were you surprised that I spoke out about Dave Portner because you kind of spoke about him in a way where you think like people are sort of scared of him, like he'll like rush somebody with one blow, and will you like, will you like this bitch is crazy for like going up against that guy.
Oh no, I didn't think. I don't think you're scared of anything. I didn't think that that was the issue at all. I wanted to stay neutral. Oh you know, barstool I heard. I don't know. I just I wanted to report on that one neutrally. But I didn't think that you would have a problem holding your own or kind of saying what you felt. I mean, you had already said it. You said it on TikTok. You said it on your podcast like if anybody's gonna go bast the balls, I think it's you.
So well, No, it's funny because you said one of my interns might have gotten it wrong. What happened was I saw so many clips on TikTok, and they didn't show the part part that you that I that I saw on yours, and then I went and listened to the whole thing. You should to give everyone perspective. There was something that I said. I don't want to rehash the whole thing, but I said something on TikTok, and then I thought that Portnoy hadn't doubled down on it.
I thought that he kind of got a little softer, and Natalie was like, uh, yeah he did, Yeah, he fucking did. And I went back and listened the whole thing. I was like, wait, right now, he did, and I owe it to my audience here to not because they might not have listened to any of it. They don't even know who he is, right, so I wanted to clarify to them. Oh no, yes he did double and triple down. So here I am doubling and tripling down. And then he went quiet, he stopped because yeah, that was.
The end of that. But yeah, I wash clip. I didn't see it at first. I was, you know, watched the first half and thought, okay, that was the end of that, and then I saw it and was like, oh he's ser Bron. That's kind of crazy.
No, totally he'll go up against anybody, and I know some of the people he's gone up against. And someone I was with yesterday in the sports world was saying, yeah, he's quieted down with you for some reason. So he did quiet down, And that's just fine with me, because you know, I actually have met him, I've enjoyed him,
I've liked him. I think he's done. He's been very successful, and I think that it's important to say something when it's difficult to say something, because most people don't do that. So I wasn't going to go come after him, and I didn't trash him, but to say, speak up for just women in the way that a man who has such influence is going to speak about a woman he's never met, especially since he himself has been up against
what he's called false reporting. Now you're taking all of your information based on a edited reality show and going to call somebody a name based on that. I thought that that deserved a little bit of a call out.
Yeah, definitely, I think that somebody had to say it. That was my first thought. And I think that especially just the timing of it, when it's kind of died down and like, let's talk about the successes of the people on that show or something. But to like throw out name calling, somebody had to say like that was weird, you know, yeah, and then we can move on.
Yeah, let's talk about Did you see what I posted about Kim and Croy? Oh?
Yes I did. Yeah. I was thinking about that a lot, what you posted, because I think that it is relatable to so many people, you know, to see kind of chaos and via volatility like that, and like how heartbreaking it is for the children. So yeah, definitely feel awful for the children, especially the young ones that are at home, but the adult children as well, who are you know, facing these kind of headlines coming out about their parents.
To be honest, I thought about when I said, like, pay your f and bills, because that was just like something that I had seen in a headline, and now that it's deeper, I can't. I can't. People should pay their bills and not front and stunt. And I think that's what reality television celebrates and is about, like you don't have to have money, you just have to look like you have money. And I find that to be problematic. And the two of them have been trying to spend
in this machine and it happens. It happens with so many of the people with all the logos and labels. You guys think that they have money. They could be bankrupt. They are coming on these shows to look rich, Jenshaw, and then they think that being on the show, they're gonna make they're going to make enough money, like what happened with my business, which takes a lot of work to make enough money to make up for the fact
that they don't really have money. So they're spending. It's like, let me spend all my bags and to look rich so the paycheck will catch up with there are the deals that I'm going to get, and it doesn't really work like that. And I think that these two were doing that. They wanted us to all think that they were really rich and they were probably going to through a lot of struggles.
Right, Yeah, that was kind of what I got from it is it looks like they were kind of keeping up with the droneses or keeping up with the people on reality TV and thinking that these businesses would take off and there would be offers made and it didn't happen, and his NFL career was done and so that wasn't coming in and then you think about you know, they want to keep They probably want to keep the home
for their children. You want your kids to stay in the same school and you know, keeping up the life and staying where they are and at the level they're at. But yeah, I think it's just when we've all kind of watched this on over years and so to see him like on film saying like this is right, this is what's happening, is wow heartbreaking.
It was heartbreaking. I was the kid in a house much crazier than that from what we hear, and it felt like they're both feeding off of each other. They can't afford to do anything different. They're just like probably the only people that understand what the other person is going through, and they probably on some sick level, love each other hate each other. It's insane. I would love to talk to one of them and just let them like breathe and like have a conversation because I do.
I literally know what it's like to be in that house and it's easier said than done to get out, believe it or not. And yeah, I think they were keeping up appearances. And that's the thing about housewives, whether it's She by Chara or Sonya Morgan clothing or the bags with Gretchen or you know, the hair with Erica or the hair with I know what all these deals look like, and I know how hard it is to make real money, like to make real money on those
It is extremely hard and takes years. I mean, it took me probably ten years to like to my shapewear and my salad dressing that are in major stores all you know, all over major chains, Walmart, publics, like real store. Took years before you were making real real money because you stuck to it. It was successful. You can't just go launch hair and you know, the first day you do sales and you do a party on TV, and like, that's right, they're not making real money. That's not real money.
Yeah, I know. First to bring in enough to maintain that, it's got to be an insane amount.
And well the businesses are so they can stay on the show because you need to have stuff going on. So it like looks like you know what I mean if you think about.
Part of those businesses, right, So they.
They don't really they technically they do. That's been signed, but they don't audit it because what are you going to go audit What did she by Charae do anymore than I'm gonna go audit what my merch on Bravo.
They just to toaster open me.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So but but if Sonia ends up on the cover Forbes magazine because she sells it to aust then they're gonna.
They're gonna call back. Yeah.
Yeah, So this is awesome.
Oh, thank you so much.
Awesome, Thanks all right, thank you guys.