Judge and Jewry

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, Judge and Jury. Becca brings the case against her sister Jessica. Becca considers herself to be part Jewish due to the sister's Jewish heritage and Becca's own sense of cultural identity. Jessica objects to this. She says that since she and her sister were raised in the Catholic faith, they can't in good conscience call themselves part Jewish. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. So Sussman is at work one day. You know he has the orthodontic practice up there in London, Ontario, and he's making a plaster mold for connective bridge work in the mouth of one of his patients, Russell Kreust. The mold dries and Sussman's examining it one day before fabricating an appliance, and he notices something unusual. There appears to be something engraved on the inside of the patient's lower incisors.

Hebrew letters and they spell out Help me, judge me. This is in a goy's mouth, Jessie. So Sussman calls the goy back on the pretense of needing additional measurements for the appliance. How are you? Noticed any other problems with your teeth? No, but there it is. Help me. Judge me, son of a gun. Sussman goes home. Can Sussman eat? Sussman can't eat. Can Sussman sleep? Sussman can't sleep.

Sussman looks at the molds of his other patients, goy and Jew alike, seeking other messages. He finds none. He looks in his own mouth, nothing. He looks in his wife's mouth, nothing, but Sussman is an educated man. Not the world's greatest sage maybe, but he knows a thing or two from the Kabbalah. He knows that every Hebrew letter has its numerical equivalent. So it's eight four five four seven three seven digits. A phone number maybe?

Hello? Do you know a goy named Krause, Russell Krauss? Who? Where have I called? Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage in London, Ontario, thanks so much. And he goes. It's a Canadian house of pizza and garbage. You've pizza? Garbage? What have you? Sussman goes home. What does it mean? He has to find out if he's ever going to sleep again.

It goes to see Judge John Hodgman, Jesse Swearman. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you God or whatever. I do. Yes, I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that his primary religious affiliation is that he once got a book blurb from a guy from the Church of Satan? I do. Yes.

Very well. Judge Hodgman. The guy, Jesse, the the grand high magus of the Church of Satan. Thank you very much. Satan, forgive me. Becca and Jessica, you are sisters. Yep. For an immediate summary judgment in your favor, can you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? No. Um this is probably a stupid guess, but is it a simple man?

Not a s not a stupid guess, a great guess, but the wrong answer. A serious man. Serious man. Yes. Yeah. I'm so lucky that you did not get that one, because you obviously knew it. It is from a serious man. By the Cohen brothers, and therefore I I do not judge necessarily in your favor until you make a case. Okay. Now Becca, you are the younger sister. Yeah. And you bring a case against your older sister, and how does it go?

I my sister and I um have a big disagreement about our identities. We have a Jewish father and a Catholic mother and we were raised as Catholic. Okay. But I do believe that we can identify as part Jewish. I see. And and Jessica, you disagree? Yeah, I disagree. You disagree for yourself or do you also disagree for Becca? Well, I try not to speak for her, but you know, if I could I would disagree for her. I'm going to allow you to disagree for her. Okay. There it so ordered.

Uh so in in other words, you you are claiming that Becca's claim that she is what is your claim again, Becca, that you are part Jewish? Yeah. Because your father is is Jewish and was raised in the Jewish faith? That's right. And your mother is Catholic and was raised in the Catholic faith? Yes. And uh you were both raised Catholic going to mass?

Mm-hmm. But nonetheless you are part Jewish because of your father's heritage. Yes. And okay, I just want to make sure that I understand. Now this is a uh I myself um am a uh I think I've said before a double lapsed Catholic, that is to say both of my parents were practicing Catholic. they gave it up and passed along nothing to me except the

religion of WGBH public television in Brookline, Massachusetts. Uh and watching uh Doctor Who uh every evening. And therefore, uh this is a little bit beyond my Ken. It so happens that in a previous case Uh we had the benefit of someone learned in these things, Rabbi Michael Unterberg. Uh Rabbi, are you there?

Uh yes I am your honor. Uh welcome. Now uh listeners may remember you from the case that you brought against your daughter wherein you wanted to force her to watch movies that you liked? Uh that's correct. And did I not rule in your favor? It was uh I thought it was a sort of wisdom of Solomon wise compromise down the middle, I felt. Oh, I thought I ruled in your favor. I'm sorry. I meant I meant to rule in your favor. How did I rule?

Uh that we had to have a uh well established uh time set aside for watching that I couldn't so that she w sh we would have time to watch movies together, but only at those designated times. Oh, okay.'Cause you c oh that's right. I remember now because because you were strapping her into a chair and holding her eyelids open, making her watch movies all night long. Yeah. Yeah, no that's a that was that was that was a weird thing. I I remember that's that is not what happened, obviously.

I do recall that I uh also ordered you to watch the third man together or was that not Did I did I not? Oh you definitely did, yeah. And did you watch it? Uh I did. What is your daughter's name again? Avigail. Abigail ha how how did she go wrong, sir? I I it it breaks my heart to this day. I I have it sitting ready to watch. I I've actually rewatched it.

Uh she actually sat down with me once to watch it and fell asleep and I it's just uh the time has not worked out for us to watch it again, but I will continue to harangue her. What a shame. Well, even though you are clearly a terrible parent.

You are still a wonderful rabbi. And a great parent. I'm just joking around for heaven's sake. No, that's okay. Now when we last spoke to you, you were where in the world? I li uh I was in Cleveland, Ohio. Cleveland, Ohio, uh also known as uh the Israel of Ohio, but now you're in the Israel of Israel. That's the one. Yes, fantastic. So you have heard the arguments that have been made so far. Uh do you have any reactions so far as our expert witness? Well I've uh I've heard

uh one side of it. I would like to hear a little bit more about uh what they what they think. Do I have any reactions so far? Uh I'm intrigued. Very good. I think that's a perfect reaction and I I admire your uh your reticence to rush to judgment. So whose side would you like to hear uh more detail from? Uh both really. I'd like a little more fleshing out of the case. All right. So let me start it off then by saying, Becca

Mm-hmm. Why are you Jewish? Well, I'm not Jewish. I'm part Jewish. Okay. Is that possible, Rabbi Mike? Um yeah, by some uh definitions for sure. How do you mean? Uh well, first of all, like anything else when it comes to Judaism, there's a million perspectives, like the old joke. ask three Jews, get four opinions. There are so many different ways of looking at things. But definitely uh even in the the Talmud explicitly discusses people who are not Jewish or Gentile but some sort of

uh part Jewish mixture and biblically also one could argue that there are personalities who aren't clearly one way or the other Jewish or not. Okay, Becca. So you're not you're not ruled out automatically by the rabbi. Let's hear let's hear your argument as to why you are part Jewish.

Um, well, I think that Judaism is not just a religion, but I think it's a culture, it's a cultural identity. I think that, you know The idea of like a cultural identity is of course really slippery and and it's it's hard to pin down, but there've been You know, there there certainly are some kind of uh a little bit of a roadmap.

that I think we fit onto. Um but first of all here's where it gets tricky, right? Because obviously Judaism is a faith, right? And then there there is there is also a an an an ethnic tradition, a number of ethnic traditions that align More or less with Judaism, right? And then and then there is a cultural tradition. And so you know, w where do you identify of those three? Because there's also just A whole mess of stereotypes. Do you know what I mean? Well, I mean I guess I would s

What's the difference between ethnic and cultural? All right, you know what? I'm gonna go to your sister while you uh wh wh while while you go back to your school books. And uh uh Jessica. That was very Tevy esque. Who which which one of us? Yeah, actually. And wh and why? Oh these sort of looking at well which which what what's the difference and how do I judge between ethnicity and culture? Yeah, there's no difference. Who is speaking now?

Sorry. That was out of turn. This is Jessica. Jessica, okay, there's no difference between ethnic and cultural. You know what? I don't actually know, but that's how I feel. So when when Becca describes well I'll put it on you. Uh the person who is going to be m uh uh most judgmental and most accusatory. When Becca describes herself as being part Jewish, what do you think she means? What does she identify in herself? That leads her to make that claim. Okay.

What if you were to speculate, let's go to pure hearsay and speculation. What do you think she's talking about? I'm afraid I'm gonna say something not nice so I don't want to be a little bit of a Yeah, you know, I think everyone I think everyone's afraid of saying well not everyone, but both of you are seem to be afraid to take on this issue that you brought to this court. Hey, I didn't take

this issue. All right. Just to be clear. Oh, I'm ready. I'm totally ready. I have I have a have you finished writing your thesis? Yeah. All right. Go on. Let's see what um I think that there is like a biological component to it. Um so for example, um Jews, Ashkenazi Jews. from the German area um are tend to be carriers of cystic fibrosis and my sister was tested and she is a carrier. Automatic Jew.

Go on. But she had to go through the experience of being tested, which, you know, I think is something that that Jewish people um have in common. Well, I guess everybody has to get tested. Yeah, everyone gets tested. Okay. Well Still that out still it was um I think that there's also like a cultural heritage. Um I think that my sister in particular is like kind of like a Jewish mom. Um, in a lot of her behaviors. Um, and I think that this is something that was inherited from our father.

Um I think that my sister both of us are like this. I think we're both very direct people. Right. Um I think that we're both people that um try to challenge like we're Teviya esque as Rabbi Mike said. We challenge questions with more questions. Uh-huh. Um and you know, I I think that we also are are um kind of like breast beaters. Like we sort of bear the pain of the earth.

On our shoulders. You're Jewish in the way some characters on television and Broadway shows are Jewish, is what you're saying. Oh yeah, I think so. But I mean so is my dad, I guess. W no well wait a minute. Did your father convert to Catholicism? No. Does he still practice Judaism? Kind of. Does he go to temple? Sometimes. All right. Yeah. That's that's I think that's pretty categorical. I don't want to compare Judaism to pornography, but I know it when I see it. It's quite Jewy.

But I mean I think it's we have a history. We have a history that, you know, is a lot I mean, I I identified some things, but I think a lot is unidentified. You know, it's just part of our fabric.

It's just there. Right. But I mean uh w why is it important to you? Uh you you you are you identify to some degree with your father's faith and your fat and the and the and the the ethnicity and bloodline that come down through your father's side of the family to you. And that makes perfect sense. Why is it important to you that Jessica feel the same way?

Is that true, Your Honor? Does she identify with his faith or just his cultural heritage? Do you know what, Rabbi Mike? That's a reasonable question. I would just I would say cultural. I've dabbled. I've I've gone to some satyrs. You've gone to some Satyrs. Like how many would you say? Uh maybe like two or three. Did you go to Hebrew school? No.

Um, d uh you've been to two or three satyrs uh and uh any uh bar mitzvahs, beth mitzvahs? I've been to other people's, but I know that doesn't count. Well yeah, no, I didn't imagine that you yourself I I have a feel I have a feeling that going to Hebrew school is part of having a bad mitzvah, so I d I don't think that I wasn't suggesting that you might have.

No. How ma how many have have uh uh bar or embotminsters have you gone to? I wanna say maybe like four or five. I bet Jess has been to more than I have. So four or five four or five bar mitzvahs, two or three satyrs. Rabbi Mike, how are we doing on the scorecard? I'm checking it off right now. Uh any snake handling at all or how many Catholic ceremonies has she been to? That's a good control group. A lot more. A lot more. Do you when was the last time you went to mass?

Um I don't know. Were you baptized? Yes. And confirmed. And con and confirmed no less. Mm hmm. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. And uh and do you um yeah

I'm not saying I'm not Catholic either. Okay. Well can you be both, Rabbi Mike? Uh I I think you can and I and I think I think part of that part of this really hinges on when you're discussing ethnicity or culture, uh Jews also have this other vague idea of peoplehood, the Jewish people. I mean the word Jew comes from

uh people who come from the land of Judea, which was a nation that was sent into the diaspora and have wandered around the world for thousands of years. So essentially there's this idea of a national peoplehood. Uh so one conceivably could be a Jewish person by by their nationality, but follow another religion. Uh could uh could uh given what Becca has said so far, could Becca

uh uh uh uh emigrate and become a citizen of Israel? Uh absolutely. Uh in the nineteen seventies the state of Israel passed uh defined its a Jew um Somewhat uh I don't know if it's ironic is the right word, but they they they decided anything anyone who the Nazis would have treated as a Jew. Mm-hmm. is eligible for the law of return to become a citizen of the state of Israel. In other words, it should be a haven for anyone

Whose identity is seen as Jewish in any way. So yeah, they're both both sisters are eligible. And we know how much the Nazis hated Becca.

Um okay, so so so far so good for you, Becca. Jessica, what is your critique of Becca's point of view? Well, I mean, I can only speak for myself. I think I think that it is a laugh to imagine that we're like any more Jewish than any of the other cultures that were around us when we grew up. Which include Oh, Chalde like'cause we're from the Detroit suburbs, so there's tons of Middle Eastern people. There's Chaldeans, East Asians.

uh not east Asia. There's like every number of cultures everywhere. You're talking about in your neighborhood or in your family? In our neighborhood. Promotes. But my dad is like the biggest sausage eater of them all. He doesn't care. He didn't impart any of that to us. It's not like he was I mean like handing out draidles. He just did not care at all. He's he's agnostic to the bitter end and I don't so like the way I see it, um

I don't remember who said it, but Ashkenazic Jews, yeah, there is for sure an ethnicity there. Like you can't just say Jewish is an ethnicity or a race or anything'cause there's so many different kinds. I'd I've been Um it is by if you think it's a religion, we're certainly not. If you think it's a culture, I still say we're not, because there was nothing specially Jewish about our upbringing. If you say it's a race,

I, well, I mean, there are, I guess I I don't want to say this. Can I just say one thing I need to backtrack? Sure. I don't know where to start with this. The reason I don't like saying that I'm Jewish'cause I feel like it's a hugely poser thing to do. Like uh I don't think that I can be like reaping the rewards of the of the And historically there has been no more rewarded But when people try to s you know like when people

There was this terrible boss I had once when I was in middle school. He's like, Oh, you're a Jew. I love Jews. You're great with m money. A terrible a terrible boss. Well I would love to say that I'm great with money, but I don't think that

it's my heritage that's can explain that. I mean I'm just I would like for my own ex Yeah, I'm I'm not sure that guy loves Jews. No, he s he stinks. He was awful. But it's just an example of like I think when people W the reason that people c um group categorize other humans I think

the the categorization method you use has got to match the purpose that you're categorizing for. If you're trying to look for diseases, then you talk about r you know DNA and stuff like that. I don't know I don't know what purpose we're trying to serve here, but if it's just to Um if it's just to like Yeah. If it's just that then I I like I don't care what you say, I'm gonna say no, I'm not and you know, like I I'll I'll live and die by my own actions, not by my answer.

Do you think you so you're saying Becca is just saying this in in order to make herself more interesting and comparison? Yeah, she's a Jew poser. That's what I'm saying. Whoa. Oh. Well I mean the thing the thing is that it is tr it is tricky because if you had a parent of Italian heritage or an apparent parent of African heritage

You would you would never think twice but say I am I am part Italian or I I I come from uh you know a certain part of my family come from a f certain part of Africa, but because it is tied into faith and because it is a faith it is a faith that has a very Well, I don't want to say h highly charged, but a h a huge historical importance. I mean I I I gotta say, Rabbi, I I am I admire your your your inclusiveness.

Um, because I I I think that I I might feel a little bit uh touchy about uh Becca uh who goes who who was at Mass a couple of years ago uh saying that she's a Jew if I were a Jew. Why am I wrong? I'm not saying I'm a Jew. I'm talking to the rabbi now. Sorry. a Jew who believes in I you know, I I I see myself both as culturally and nationally, but also religiously Jewish. I feel that the values of the Torah teach me to be open and accepting and not judgmental. So that's sort of on me to

to um to find ways to be inclusive, although technically the sisters can tell me if they ag agree or disagree. I mean technically they I think you guys understand that to orthodox and conservative Jews you're technically not Jews.

Because uh rabbinically for the last few, you know, millennia, we've uh we've identified Jews as children of a Jewish mother and we've defined matrilineal descent. Reform Jews, however have accepted patrilineal descent. So in ref from a perspective of reformed Jews, you are both Jewish. What about people that convert? Convert in which in which way? Convert to Judah. To be to be to Judaism. Mm-hmm. Let's say Becca

wanted to to be to complete the pose and to be truly the the utter the utter Jewish hipster. And and and sh and i if she were to convert to Judaism Would uh would w would the most Orthodox Jews around the world Still not accept her as a Jew, or would they? If she wanted to convert? Yeah. If if she wanted to convert, we would actually be uh obligated to explain to her that first of all, we don't believe she'll have any problem uh getting into heaven as a non Jew, that we don't

We don't have we don't see ourselves as the exclusive religion. And we'd also be obligated to explain to her that uh despite this cachet that you guys seem to think there is to being Jewish, we we've had a pretty rough

uh road there for a while. So sometimes sometimes people don't particularly like Jews. So you have to realize what you're getting yourself into. And and if you felt that you still wanted to be in, you would absolutely be Jewish one hundred percent. No different from any other completely Jewish.

Thank you very much, Rabbi Mike. So Becca, you're bringing this case against your sister. Mm-hmm. What do you want me to order? Okay. Th there is like a really specific conversation that happens often in our house where she will say something or do something and her husband will say, That's the Jewish part of you saying that. And she'll say, I'm not Jewish. So I think she's wrong. Wait a minute. What

What what sort of ac what there's a lot to unpack there? Like for example when around the house she won't drive on the Sabbath. Ha ha ha ha. Yeah. I I I'm I'm a little nervous to ask, but what are the sorts of things that Jessica will do that her husband who I may I pr who what of what faith or or ethnicity is your husband? Oh he's um Arabic religiously? Nothing. Agnostic. As much as my father. Was he was he raised in a particular faith?

Yeah. The tur uh the Arabic Alivies. Oh I and I don't I'm sorry, I don't know what that is. Oh You know, it would be a real long discussion. Just suffice it to say it's kinda like the Mormons to the Christians in this country are the olivies to Sunni Muslims in Turkey. Well, that was easy enough to say. And I completely understand. Okay. Okay. Where were we? So So he thinks he'll say that I do Jewish things.

But mostly I think he does that because his greatest joy in life is to tease me and he does it to get my goat. Right. Well that is Arab Aliviv all over the place. You know what I mean. You know those guys are always teasing. So true. Sorry. Some some stereotypes are true. Uh okay. And then you you so Becca, you feel annoyed when she then defends herself as saying I am not Jewish.

Yes. Why? Um because that's not true. She's not not Jewish. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That could be a new category. Yeah. Like she could say, no, that's not the Jewish part of me or you're crazy or something, but the answer I'm not Jewish is just wrong. You know, i i it it does come I'll save that for my for my ruling. Um

So what would you so this goes back to the question then, what would you like me to order? Next time her husband says she's being Jewish, for her to say, Absolutely, I am Jewish, or at least part Jewish?

But but those but those words in Hebrew? What do you want? I guess um it would be nice if she stopped saying that, but um I I think that the uh what I desire I guess goes more deeper than that is that she needs to kind of back off a little bit when if I talk about our Jewish identity, she is like a s she's like a guard dog about it. How do you mean? I mean, she's she's just so adamant, like no, this it we are not Jewish. You know, she just doesn't

She doesn't like entertain the idea at all w when I talk about us or you know something going on. When you're at mass and you stop and and stop the priest from giving you the wafer and you're like, Hang on, there's no shrimp in this, right? This isn't a shrimp ship because I am part Jewish. And she's like, What are you talking about? Like you want her to allow that to happen? Jessica? Yes. Do you get mad at your sister?

For saying that she's part Jewish? I don't think mad is the right word, but if the thing is if any member of my f I love my family and if any m if any member of my family acts in a way that I personally wouldn't act, it makes me uncomfortable. So if she says she's Jewish, I feel like I'm saying I'm Jewish. And like I said before, I don't feel comfortable taking on it's not that I don't like Jews. I think um I think

Being Jewish would be really cool, but I don't Oh well everyone agrees that. That's why that's why I don't worry about it. I just wanna s I mean like if any I'm not I I am proud of my heritage, no question, but I would stop short of saying that I am Jewish because I don't feel like I've earned the right to say such a thing. And um I don't And you don't think that she has either.

Well I don't think I do and so when she says that I feel like I'm s it you know, like when your family does things it just it just irks you because you feel like it's an extension of yourself. I don't so I try to shut the whole conversation down by saying we are not Jewish, like end it right now. To what degree would you say this is a

Principal position Uh and to what degree is it that you just love telling your little sister what to do? I don't love telling her what to do. It's a hundred percent prin Becca, I do it out of necessity. It is a hundred percent principle. I don't like telling anyone what to do. I just want people to behave. Okay. There you go. That is very uh coincidentally the motto of his court.

Rabbi Mike, are you still there? Yes, yes I am. Uh before I go into my chambers to meditate on this subject, is there anything else you can tell me that would guide my decision?

I don't think so. I I do think that you you have a tough decision because it it becomes this this thing about personal identity. I do think that uh if I understand correctly, Rebecca's not calling herself a Jew. She's saying that she's part Jewish. Is that correct, Becca?

Yes. Right. Okay. Go on, Rabbi Mike. So it seems to me that when that there's there seems to be a a bit of a hang up over language here rather than they might be able to come up with some compromise language that might suit them both. of law that is the court of Judge Sean Hodgman, there is no compromise. I understand. Uh

Uh can I just can I interject really quick? I don't have a problem if if part Jewish is verbal shorthand for part of my family is Jewish, then I have no problem with it. But what is it only if it means that. And Becca, is that all that it means? No. No, no deal. What is it that what is it in you that is and which brings us back to the very first question? What is it in you that is part Jewish?

What attributes beyond the fact of your heritage do you identify with the magical Bloodborne Jewishness that gives you both cystic fibrosis and what, a a taste for chopped liver? Pickled yeah, thank you very much. I'm getting hungry now. Yeah. Well, I think that's a really tough question and I feel like to answer it would just sound racist. That's I mean I'm trying to like make put it into little bites of Something that you can hold on to butt I'm going into my chambers now to make.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Becca, how are you feeling? I don't know. I feel a little nervous. Just admitting, the part of you that feels part Jewish is what controls world banking. That's what you were gonna say. But she feels really guilty about it. I think it should be said here that Catholics have their own they have their own share of guilt too, so who knows where that came from.

Jessica, how are you feeling about your chances? I know that I swore to abide by whatever decisions, but I mean I I'm not gonna change. I'm not I don't care even if my jeans, even if I have a Jew gene that shows up positive, I am not going to claim that. Rabbi Unterberg, do Jews wear a special type of jeans? I don't think so. Well, anyway, you know, what can you do now?

What's been said's been said. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re enters the courtroom. You know, the the thing that complicates this entire situation is whether or not we identify Judaism as a a faith and religion, which is, that is to say, a matter of personal conscience or whether we identify Judaism as a f as a family not tradition, but uh uh a familial uh uh face. Or whether we identify Judaism as something that is that is passed in blood. Obviously, Rabbi Mike points out that.

uh that uh most Jews do identify Jewishness as passing down at least through the mother and now more recently through the father, and that therefore there is uh a a familial or and maybe even genetic aspect to it. Uh that uh but it is obviously more complicated than talking about nationality uh or talking about ethnic background.

because it has also a matter of active personal belief and faith associated with it. Based on uh Rabbi Mike's uh uh uh wisdom and guidance I do as a non religious double lapsed Catholic in Parkslope Brooklyn, the most godless place of all. I do have the objectivity to say that Jessica, as per your sister, you are not not. Jewish. But equally, Becca, I have to say, if the only Jewish parts in you that you would personally identify

Uh with you fear to state because you don't want to sound racist. I fear I fear to say that. Then I think it's hard for you to say then I think it's hard for you to say I am part Jewish. So in a in a sense you are you are both wrong. Uh I I understand that y I I understand where you're coming from, but you know, these are things that to me are very delicate, perhaps not I mean Rabbi Mike, where where am I right? Where am I wrong? Um

I think that overall you've basically been right, except that I I would I would use the language a little differently. I would say that Judaism is the religion and the faith, and Jews refers to the people and and the culture. And uh I-I-I... But Jewish unfortunately refers to both. Correct. And so and so Rebecca needs to or would have needed to articulate what it is about her that is Jewish, I think.

Yeah, I think so too. I mean I I I think that either one of you can can say and would say happily that you have Jewish heritage. And and uh and and Jewish background and and an affection for at least one Jewish person, your father. uh and perhaps Jewish uh people all around the world and and for the faith and for everything else. But I think that it is in casual conversation. Certainly appropriate for Jessica to say uh I am not a Jewish person or a part Jewish, but I have Jewish heritage.

And Becca, I think where you are now is is frankly the more problematic. Because I I would say and I would be perhaps a little bit uh less inclusive than the rabbi in this case. Because I would say if if you are out there uh claiming n not merely that you have uh Jewish heritage on your father's side, But that you are actively currently part Jewish for reasons. Um those reasons have to be, to my mind, uh you you're gonna have to you're gonna have to do a little work.

uh as as a as a uh within recent years practicing Catholic to be making that claim. Uh and and for it not to seem weird or foolish or identified with traits that might just be cliches rather than an actual part of of the both ethnic and religious tradition of Jew Jewishness, shall we say.

Yeah, that's fair. Uh so my ruling is as follows. Jessica, yeah. Not not Jewish. When next time you f next time you fill out any forms. That that is what you have to put on. I can make that order because I know you're not going to do what I tell you anyway, which is You did not retire to chambers. Well no my chambers have uh uh a uh l uh l listening devices. Oh I see. The courtroom is bugged. I'm always listening.

And Becca, I'm gonna you know, I have to side with your sister here, even though you brought the thing. I I don't think that you should be going around saying that you're part Jewish unless In your mind, and when asked for clarification, you explain, Yeah, my dad my dad is Jewish, but he's non practicing, and neither am I. Because beyond that, I think you're affiliating w uh with uh uh with cliches.

And uh and even though Rabbi Mike would would welcome you in in Israel uh through the right of return uh to become uh uh uh uh a Jew or to be a Jew, as a Jew, as a as a as a person. of of uh of the Jewish nation. That's not what you're doing. If you were doing that, I'd say, Yeah, go for it. You are absolutely part Jewish, indeed. You are a Jew. Mm-hmm. But if you're just hanging around eating bagels saying, I'm part Jewish This part finds that a little gross.

Therefore I find in the favor of the not not Jew there shall be no there shall be no punishment since this is all a matter of faith.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Becca, how do you feel? Um, I felt like I knew that this would probably happen, but I also think like tomorrow I'll come with a come up with a bunch of really good arguments. Well, tomorrow in the old Church of Satan proverb. You gotta make your case today, sister, and you gotta be wearing a goat mask while you do it.

You're right. Well, uh Jessica Becca Rabbi Unterberg, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thank you. An exciting case. What's that? Yeah. Is that a genetically inherited ability? Well, yeah. Of course. Hi Rabbi Unterberg, nice to have you here. Hi, thanks Jesse.

Well, I mean I kind of felt that Becca had as much claim to saying that she was part Jewish as I did because I grew up in Brookline, Massachusetts. I mean I've been I've been to Mort Seder since she's a little bit. Judge Hodgman, I would argue that your best claim to being Jewish is probably that really great bagel place, like a block from your house. Oh, the bagel hole here in Park Slope, uh Brooklyn. And uh I think most of the people who work there are Dominican. Uh

Uh so uh yeah. No I'm super sensitive about this stuff because I I grew up uh you know where most of my family And I also... It's highly. I really was guided by your uh by your wisdom and your inclusiveness was very impressive to me, sir. Judge Hodgman, I think that's called the a different world fact.

Flipped up my glasses. Uh now you live in Israel, you moved from Cleveland to Israel. Um uh you uh you mentioned off the air in August. Uh Always wanted to move here. In elementary school, actually. Yeah. Presumably you had visited uh uh several times before. Do you think that this will be a permanent move or do you think it will be Very much, but uh I'm very I'm very happy to be here. That is a profound life change. It sure is for you and your children. Yep, I got it. I got it on my hard drive.

Done. Okay soon. Well hopefully she'll hear this podcast and you'll put the fear of God into her, Joja. The So to speak. Yeah, I'd rather I'd rather not use that name, but that's fine. Uh, how old is she now? She is 18. That is the perfect age to watch the thin man. No, the third man. And the thin man. I'm guessing, writes in with a question regarding social etiquette. Herman meets with a scientist Let me interrupt right now, everybody.

I'm gonna listen to this social etiquette question because it's fun for me to tell people how to live. Ha ha ha. The ethicist nor is it mismanner. Everybody who's writing in the case of the case. Is it okay to litter when you're drunk? Signed Drunky McLitter. First of all, yes. Second of all no actually no. Third of all I need a dispute tank. To decide between a disputer and a disputant.

But I'm gonna hear it from you, Gila, because I like your name. Herman meets with a scientist friend, Bill, every month to have breakfast. Last month, Bill had a A cough and was unable to cover it in time. This is reads like a goofy gallon. Yeah, I don't believe for a second she's got a friend named Herman who's a scientist. Last month Bill had a cough and was unable to cover it in time, and it went across the table. where Herman was eating his breakfast. It sounds like a ma-

The first train was traveling at forty miles per hour. The first cough was traveling at Mach 1. Go okay. The next month, Bill was still coughing and coughed right on Herman's food. Herman didn't want to insult his friend by suggesting that he cover his cough. It had already happened.

He couldn't leave his food uneaten or it would be suspicious as to why he wasn't eating his breakfast. He couldn't ask for a new platter, as that would also be obvious, but eating the food was a risk. He ate it, and a week later he had a new cold. Oh our idea. To tell Bill, if you're still sick, I think we should postpone getting together until you are well.

But that would not answer the question of what to do during slash while in the situation. Judge Hodgman, what is the correct response to the call? Gross. Second of all, rather than Correct in remembering from my Brookline. Jewish tradition Uh I believe that's in the Talmuds somewhere. Right. I mean it's like if they're friends, I don't care if they are scientists. What do you think? Yeah, thank you very much, Rabbi Mike. I agree. This is the most mysterious letter I've ever received.

They don't believe either of these guys exist. Like Condor. It's some kind of monster, isn't it? Isn't it some sort of poisonous lizard? Yeah, it's an island monster. It wasn't fast enough to cover his call. Calls are not stuck. You know what I mean? You know when one's coming. Second of all, next time. No no this adds up. Weird and phony and five. Only small chance that it Yeah. And the other guy has to pay. grace and religion operating in tandem for one. Thanks to you, Rabbi.

Here's something from Alex. I thought you might enjoy having a look at this proud Canadian museum. Jesse may also be interested. I believe that it may be next door to a Canadian house of pizza and garbage. Museum dot C A and I apologize for buzz buzz marketing. I will allow Oh my gosh, look at this little gopher! The little gopher. He's an old West Gopher. And he's wearing a cowboy hat. Driving a wagon train.

Oh what are you up to, little fella? I'm clicking on the link that says dioramas so I can learn more. Oh, look at this. These gophers are getting married. Are one of them's an old timey Oh look at this. Oh now they're just regular gophers. And this one they're just regophers. Well look at all these gophers. This one's going sledding. You have obviously broken the brain of my bailiff. So Alex. This one has a pet dog for this Canadian Museum of Taxidermide Ghosts.

Jessie Yeah. But do you see the ones the gophers who are standing on top having won uh Olympic medals? They're standing on the on the on the tripartite. Congratulations, little guy. Jessie, where do we stand on the nightmare girl? Finalists for the Nightmare Gerbil contest. They were selected by our intern, Thomas. We literally got hundreds of submissions. Contest. This is by far the most popular thing we've ever done.

Mm-hmm. We asked listeners in I believe it was 200 words or less or 250 words or less to tell us why they should be the home of the nightmare girl. Which is this horrible beast that was sent to me by some very sweet Maximum fund di Exactly. So uh we've got these two finalists. The first one is called Ode to a Nightmare Girl by S. R. Claggett. Okay, I'm I'm gonna give you guys a a dramatic reading here.

Zunamic Muse, your powers I enlist to persuade Hodgman, Judge, and Jesse, fist of justice, true and righteous they must see. The nightmare gerbil should belong to me. I long have labored to find and collect those artifacts time too oft will forget. To this assortment find I hope to add a rodent fierce, rogue taxidermide. A wedgewood dish from Silver Jubilee, the signature of Make Peace Thackeray.

Cross from wood of Wesley's pew have I, and dust from Sir James Simpson's diary. If fit with gerbil, all would want to see my cabinet of curiosity and find Reason may this poem move your judge's heart and my request approve. A beautiful poem. Oh, I thought there was another stanza coming. Good. Shalin writing his SR class. Shaylen writing a ZR Clagget very nice and the next finalist. This is From Lydia C.

here. Dear Judge Hodgman, you may have heard from me before and I am hoping to be awarded the Gerbil from this week's podcast. If I'm awarded this honor, I promise to find him a suitable replacement mate. I would be in a position to do this because I am in the habit of bringing dead animals home to make artwork out of anyway. A hobby that I share with my mom and grandma.

I'm willing to bribe you with artwork or plain clean animal skulls. Attached are samples of my work. So Lydia has sent a few samples of her work. Oh jeez. They are creepazidal. Wow, that's some intense stuff there. I feel like I've stumbled into a Rob Zombie podcast of some sort. PDF that this contestant entered. Because you can't Person in question, Lydia, uh has created artwork. She found and sourced responsibly and not murderously. And this goes beyond taxidermy. This goes even beyond.

This is like Gotha Durm. So all right. Well I leave it. Who do you think should get the nightmare? And what do I get in return? Creepy skulls, Rabbi? Well, I I do think that uh I was leaning a little bit towards the creepy skulls because of the nightmarish nature of the Gerbels. The poetry was uh so well constructed and conceived. I think it has to go to the poet. Well, congratulations, Shane. And Jesse, were you specifically asked to not name Lydia?

No, uh I wasn't. Uh uh I uh I I don't know if she would like her last name to be revealed. Uh but it is Lydia. Well, let's just go ahead and go. Anne Comra I only asked because it seems like the the pictures that she sent in are abroad. Either a catalogue of of a exhibition or maybe a brochure. She sells and they really are remarkable and uh I think deserve uh even though I I w uh would be terrified if she won't. Uh unless she begs us not to, we will post this on the website.

Well thank you very much, Rabbi Mike for lending all of your wisdom to this proceedings and your good nature and the first time. Your love of both the third and the Thank you very much. It was a pleasure. I've got some bacon. Well, you remember Boatparty. I have great news, which is Bo Party.com.

is no longer simply a website with a picture of a boat and a place to type in your email address. It has been transformed. It is now the home page of the Atlantic Ocean Comedy and Music Festival. But what is that? Tell you spooky gun.

Amazing uh it's an amazing festival that we at maximumfun.org have put together with great sponsorship from our friends at KCRW and Split Cider. It is a cruise from Miami to the Caribbean uh featuring side we're looking at John Darneal of the Mountain Goats, recent guest on this program.

Dan Deakin, the amazing Dan Dan Deakin, the beautiful and spectacular Miss Nellie Mackay, and of course our friend John Roderick, among others, among others. Good heavens, what a lineup. All on one All on one C, and there will also be a shuffleboard turn. I'm going over there right away to give birth to No, Judge Hodgsford, just look, it's all explained at voteparty dot biz. Just a little hominim humor. Talk to you later.

The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is a production of Maximumfun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at maximumfun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at gosupeego.com. You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise dot com.

If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to maximumfund dot org slash JJ H O. If you have thoughts about the show, join the conversation on our forum at forum dot maximumfund.org and our Facebook group at Facebook.comslash Judge John Hodgman. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.