HM Ep. 15
[00:00:00] Apologies for the typos, this is an AI transcription
[00:00:03] Dr. Rupy Aujla: Let's say I,
I catch a whale, right? Yeah. And it's time to haul it in. What are the things that I need to do to haul in this whale? I've only got a small fishing boat here. Yeah. Yeah. It's not fit for a whale. Yeah. Yeah. But I want to, I want to catch a whale. What will think, how, how do I get that
person
on board?
Um, welcome to Happy Millionaire, A show about how to make a profit with a positive impact and stay happy along
the.
So long story short, I put together a job description, and this job description isn't like your average job description that you'd find on like workable or a typical job board. Mine was very different. Mine's like, yo, I've started a, a brand. Five years ago, this is the traction we've got and this is the kind of person, uh, I'm looking for.
And, I wrote it very colloquially. I was like, This is my tech stack. You love this and you understand [00:01:00] everything. Cuz I don't,
[00:01:01] Jay Radia: and I can remember, and I'll put the link in. We'll put the link into, Yeah, yeah. I'll put the link in it. Yeah. Cause, I think most people
[00:01:09] Dr. Rupy Aujla: like looked at it and like, what is this guy on?
This is
[00:01:12] Jay Radia: not, not your average. Uh, yeah. It's quite relaxed. It didn't feel like a job. It? No, I dunno. I would say it
[00:01:20] Dr. Rupy Aujla: felt like a job. I basically like painted the vision, like the mission is, and the vision is to make it easier to be healthy than it is to be unhealthy. Right. It's a very, very grand vision.
But also I want to give the impression to this person that, you know, it's essentially a co-founder. We're gonna have a ton of fun and they're gonna be responsible for building a tech team, but also being a critical part of the culture that I wanna create at the doctor's kitchen. Right. Like a real, fun, loving atmosphere with a very serious mission at the helm of it.
Look, this is a serious problem. Yeah. But I, And I'm gonna throw you in the deep end. But I'm gonna have your back. Like, I'm not gonna let you [00:02:00] drown. And when there's stuff that you don't know, like I will have your back on that. Okay? Anyway, so I sent this around to a few people. I sent it to you and I put it on a couple of job
[00:02:10] Jay Radia: boards.
Had
[00:02:11] Dr. Rupy Aujla: quite a bit of a response, mate. There's like, uh, that I'm interviewing six people and I wanted to chat to you, uh, before I start interviewing them all because I dunno what I should be asking if I'm honest. Like, everyone's read the job description. What am I looking for when I have this initial chat?
What would you these with these
[00:02:31] Jay Radia: folks today? Yeah. All right. I think the number one part is like to you, it's so clear that your purpose is. Means everything to you, and it should mean something very significant to the person you are meeting. Right? So, you know what's interesting? Some of the best candidates, they come in and they start already talking about how, how your business aligns with them.
That's why I love, you know, that the kind of question is why are you here? At that point, I'm hoping the purpose comes out. Right. If they go, Hey, I want, You're an early stage company like that, to me, that's not good [00:03:00] because there are about a bazillion early stage businesses. Like I think, you know, for me it's just, it has to be someone who is tied to your purpose.
I'd say that's probably number one. Then, uh, I'd say number two for me then would be, because you're so early, right? And there are people just for the listener like there are so many different stages of a company, right? You've got like the incubation phase, then you've got like an early stage where you have a product.
You wanna know the push to customers? I guess phase three would be now you've got some customers, then you've got the product. Then after that it would be, you know, you've now got probably some money behind you and you've got, the business is starting to accelerate. You've got a good number of customers and then offset some moments.
It goes corporate and goes public, right? Yours is, yours is in my mind, like phase two. You've got a product, but now you, to get people, more people to use it, you've already got quite a good number of users, like 2000 plus, which is great, but we need someone who has been in that phase. Because right now in this phase, you're gonna be collecting so much customer feedback, you're gonna reiterate the product, and you're trying to also figure out your product market fit.
What are the features that people, when people go on the Doctor's Kitchen app that people constantly use, right? [00:04:00] And we have to then double, triple down on those. So there needs to be this commercial element that they've got and that experience of being, I guess, very adaptable in this phase. And a lot of people can't do it if you come from a corporate job unless they've done very small projects in a corporate place, it's very hard to have that ability to keep, keep on changing and changing directions.
This is how you operate. Like you have to keep on moving. So number two to me will be like, have they had that true early stage experience where they, you know, the ship keeps on moving left and right and they keep on falling essentially on the ship? They might be capsizing and coming back in, right? But do you know what I mean?
They have to have that experience. If not, like, it's so difficult, to teach that one. So in my mind that that is super, super key. So you know what questions you can ask there. Tell me a project which you've built from scratch, like recently, because you don't wanna send your last job. You wanna just hear it out from them because the one they're gonna say is the one that means a lot to them.
Then I'd say the third one is just the phase of life they're in. Just like how important is the success of this project? What you need right now, you need, someone's gonna slog it. So you need [00:05:00] someone who is ready to give a large chunk of their life. They're gonna literally prioritize the startup over.
Family and their personal priorities and you know, had you asked that that's a more tricky one. I feel you got to ask them like, how important is the success of this app? And you've gotta look 'em right in the eyes. Cause it's a problem. A lot of people, and you know, I've seen this in my companies, they, they will give a big, big answer.
But deep down, They've got other priorities, and that's fine depending on the phase of the business. Right? If it goes a bit late, you know, as you grow, that's fine. But in this early phase, you need someone who's gonna be, you know, walking with you, like with your, with, you know, holding hands. You are bloody hard, right?
So I'd say, um, that's really important. And I've been, I've given three. I'm gonna pause Any questions before I...
[00:05:42] Dr. Rupy Aujla: I've actually been writing everything down. I've actually got four. Uh, so just to summarize, do they align with the vision and purpose and telling me what brought them to this point and this conversation, why they responded to the job description in the first place?
The fact that we're in phase two. Have they been in this phase yet? [00:06:00] Have they struggled, uh, to find product-market fit, how they've iterated to define product-market fit. Third thing is sort of related is like early stage experience. Have they had battle scars? If they're coming from a corporate background, they might not like the constantly changing nature of the early startup phase.
And that sort of question to sort of dig into that is, Telling me about a project that they've built from scratch recently, and the fourth, see on
[00:06:25] Jay Radia: that one as well. Sorry to cut you off on that corporate one. And also you've gotta figure out did they have, what sort of support did they have while building it in that corporate place?
So, you know, sometimes corporate, they get like, like a big wanky like office and $10 million to build a team. So it's like it's not real. Yeah. Yeah. Were. Were you also involved in like incorporating the company? Were you involved in you doing all the legal work and the setup and the operations? Cause a lot of these people are in corporate, they're literally given a throne.
It's very different from a startup. Okay, so any questions on those? I can give one or two more. Uh, let's go for a couple more and I've [00:07:00] got questions about a red flag. Okay, so, uh, what red flags I should be looking out for? So commercial. Experience. Right? So you find a lot of people that build technology and they just know it.
Yeah. They just architecture, They get it. They know how to build a good product, right? However, you ask them, Hey, do you know how, how this is gonna sell in the market? Like, how do you, how do, how are we gonna get this product in the hands of people? I either go to market the commercial piece, right? They're, they're not very good because they're just so focused on their lane.
You need someone who's, you know, put their head up and understands how to also sell this product. A little bit because they should be familiar with who that customer is as well and tell you, Hey, like, yeah. So I would ask them, how do you think we should be promoting this app? And like, who do you think our ideal customer is?
Like they're not gonna exactly know, but they should have a bit of a feeling they should go to have a conversation about the commercial piece. But I'd say that's very, very important. So just ask 'em some commercial-led questions, like, you know, how are we gonna promote it? And who's our ideal customer? Those are very two easy questions to ask.
The other [00:08:00] piece I would say is pro. Like, ask them, you know, how many people have you hired yourself? We're hoping that they can hire. I'm sure anyone who's listened to this pod has hired someone not good. And it is so painful. I'm sure you have as well. They must have already made some mistakes and be careful with this question, Right?
Because a lot of people will go, Hey, yeah, you know, I had a team of like three people, five people, 20, 30, 70, whatever. But they inherited a lot of that, so they didn't hire it. Right? Right. So just say like, how many people have you personally hired? So that's the question. And how many of those people
if you got this job would join in a heartbeat? Right. That's a, I like asking that question to just see if they can bring people with them. You are playing poker a little bit in the interview, right? Mm, you are. So you just have to like try and position it so, um, you can read the hand better.
Right. Or read what they're gonna say a bit better. So you're gonna interview, let's say 5, 6, 7 people, right? Keep the questions consistent. Whatever questions we've given today at this list, I've given a good number and a lot of them have [00:09:00] done been on the fly. So you may need to polish 'em in your way.
But you know, I'd also, Same questions to each person. I take notes in the interview as well. Yeah, because trust me, you're not gonna remember. The most important piece in all this, like you, can do the best interview, but honestly, the most, most important thing will be the references, right? Yeah. By far. I feel that is where you're gonna get the most information.
Like if you are interviewing someone, you know it's gonna be someone that is gonna be a colleague, right? And just making sure you do the references right, Um, like re-referred people always gonna be better because especially for someone you trust, because they probably work
[00:09:34] Dr. Rupy Aujla: with them. Yeah. Just to sort of summarizing the last bit, I am interested.
How do you define the ideal customer and then, and then target them as well? Yeah. Especially the early adopters and then the hiring pieces. That's such a good question. I probably wouldn't have asked that. Like, how many people have you personally hired?
[00:09:53] Jay Radia: That's a really, Another question is how many of those would you rehire?
Right? How many people, Yeah. So, this is, this is really [00:10:00] interesting. If they give you an answer, like 89%, they're talking. Right. Cause I'm telling you right now. Yeah. Yeah. Cause like if you look at the hiring stats, let's say you hire 10 people, right? Three aren't gonna work out. Because they're maybe not a culture fit or they're just not good.
Then there's another 30% which are like, okay, they're good enough. They're okay. So you have with another 40% and out of that like, you know, 10 50 percent's like, Oh, this is good. Thumbs up. Yeah, I'll work with them. But they're good. Right? Wow. And then there's like another chunk, which is like probably the last 30%, which is like, or 20%.
They're like, Wow, these are. These are rock stars. I, I would work with them every single day of my life again. Right. So if someone is telling you that 70% is very unlikely, I,
[00:10:39] Dr. Rupy Aujla: I thought of another question within that, within that category, is, is there firing experience? So how many people are that fired?
Yeah, that's, Yeah. Very good question. Because Fi, finding someone who. Hires relentlessly, but doesn't have the cognitive bandwidth or the bravery to fire. Yeah. It's probably
[00:10:55] Jay Radia: just as dangerous. Right. So, So again, this goes back to the poker thing, right? So just say, Okay, how many people, if you hire, they [00:11:00] go 20.
Okay, great. And how many, of those 20 did you fire? Right? Just do it straight away. Yeah. Then they like, if they're the right people for the job and it's meant to be, it'll work out. Yeah, yeah. For
[00:11:09] Dr. Rupy Aujla: sure. I always, I was also gonna ask about raising experience. So, you know, if they have been in an early stage startup, um, have they had experience of going to pitches?
I wanna know that they can carry themselves and, at least speak articulately about their area of the business in front of people who are gonna potentially throw money at it.
[00:11:31] Jay Radia: Yeah. Yeah. How you vet that is, you know, on your final round, um, you do a presentation, they have to do a presentation.
Right. I would therefore ask them to, A problem of yours, Maybe one or two. Okay. Right. And you know, you get them to present, and then, therefore, you can see how good they are at
[00:11:47] Dr. Rupy Aujla: presenting. How many rounds should interviewing be? I mean, this is literally like an informal chat that I'm having with most people today, but, so first chat,
[00:11:55] Jay Radia: you know, 60 minutes.
The first call should be an intro call. Your next one should be a, [00:12:00] um, deep dive. Some people even like doing an hour and a half on that call, and that's just you and them. Um, at that point, you know you need someone else to interview them, so someone technical, you wanna find someone who's ideally done that role.
And then it's a presenting round. Some tests are good just in case like personality tests and things like that, person tests or, um, actually a technical test. Are there things that are like sort of gray areas? Like one of the things that we do in Screenloop is give them an opportunity to ask questions at the end is just etiquette.
Like they've given you their time, you gotta give your time talk speed. So you know, English, is not their first language. Um, it's very important that we talk at a good pace. Um, that's again, another. It's a really good point. A big problem we've seen in interviews when
[00:12:41] Dr. Rupy Aujla: you, when you say references, right? Canada's gonna give a whole bunch of references.
So how do you find these other references? Do I literally go to that old company's HR and just be like, I'm thinking about hiring this person who can give a reference or like, how do I
[00:12:58] Jay Radia: literally go, go back? Yeah. This is [00:13:00] extra work, right? So, um, what you wanna do is you want to go into their previous company.
and like in your case it's, you know, you're hiring someone who's a c TPO O Okay. So you might wanna look at the other exact members, right? And hopefully, there are some mutual connections you've got, but you know, our pure respect tells the candidate you're gonna intend to, um, speak to people. So it does not catch them off guard in terms of, um, red flags.
Yeah, I'd say. Answering my question, I'm telling you right now, so people don't answer the question. That's maybe cuz they're not present or they don't wanna answer that question. They wanna go, Hey, I ain't got that one prepared. Your number two is just the. Yeah, you just know when you're speaking to someone, it just feels natural and it feels good if you hang to make a lot of effort, right?
This is the first date, right? It's not gonna work out. So thirdly how in line are they with what you're trying to do here? Because they're gonna have to go through so many walls. Fourth is I, you know, I like to know if they've got some good questions planned. Cause then they've done their research.
That means they do [00:14:00] care. There needs to be a link between this person's purpose and um, your purpose. So yeah, I'd probably say those. Probably the main things. Yeah. Let's say I,
[00:14:09] Dr. Rupy Aujla: I catch a whale, right? Yeah. And it's time to haul it in. What are the things that I need to do to haul in this whale? I've only got a small fishing boat here.
Yeah. Yeah. It's not fit for a whale. Yeah. Yeah. But I want to, I wanna catch a whale. What will thing, How, how do I get that person
[00:14:24] Jay Radia: on board? Um, Enthusiasm. Yeah. You just have to be pumped up. Right. They're gonna feel your energy. Number two is just to keep on selling the vision. Right. Or know what buttons are working Right.
Because that's the formula, Like whatever's grabbed them, you need to work out, you have to decode it. Then I would say like, really get your, um, investors and your advisors to help. It's not, it's not just gonna be you here. Like you need the support of all of us. Do you know what, like you have to, unfortunately, and this is where it comes to that woo there, but it's like, if it's meant to be, it's meant to be, right?
Yeah. You can't push it too. If you're pushing too hard, it feels a bit forced, so, [00:15:00] It's a numbers game. So this is my fourth one. This is a numbers game, right? So make sure you've got a good pipeline of other people because that's gonna connect to your confidence. You know life is a numbers game. Yes.
[00:15:09] Dr. Rupy Aujla: Look, if you are there, mm.
Uh, if you are a CTO, CPO, CTPO, whatever, and you are coming into a company, what things do you want me to demonstrate to convince you that, you know what, I'm, I'm super excited about this company and this guy's got my back, and we are gonna make this
[00:15:27] Jay Radia: work. Um, so I feel like one thing that we've missed out on is like, you know, you are, you're an early stage business and you know, anyone who's starting an early stage business is not probably gonna have that much cash.
Right. And you are, you're an example. Ideally, you know, we raise some money before we buy this person, so I feel they need to believe that you can raise the money. I think you need to just say, Look, you and I are. Again, hold hands and we're gonna go raise some money as soon as you join.
Um, I've already lined up a bunch of investors, VCs, whatever you wanna do, I want one month or two months [00:16:00] just on board and understand the product. And after that then we're gonna go, we're gonna go pitch. And you know, you need to raise money quite quickly. Yeah. Faster the better. Yeah.
[00:16:10] Dr. Rupy Aujla: What my pitch is gonna be?
It's like you're gonna come on board. Yeah. We're gonna break this product roadmap together. I've pretty much done 67% of it. Yeah. With the ideal person on board, we are gonna like an attractive power couple to people who wanna throw money at it so we can grow this thing. There might be that phase of life that you mentioned earlier, that they're willing to, you know, Yeah.
Try this out
[00:16:33] Jay Radia: a couple of years. So you have, you're a lot of Rights. And that is, you know, one thing I, um, retell anyone is that if you wanna be rich or have millions in the bank account, right, it's gonna be from an equity sell, most likely you're gonna be, And what does that mean, like selling some shares in a business because, You get the tax is not as much and at the same time, you know, you can see a million, 2 million, you know, in that, um, transaction.
Whereas, you know, you can do a salary and you know, roughly if you make a hundred, 200 [00:17:00] grand a year, you must its tax. So you have to, it is all about the equity. If you're working for someone, make sure you try to get some equity. Um, and if you're founding a company that equity's important. And one thing I just wanna tell the listener as well is just, I know Ru.
Building a tech company. And if you are thinking about starting something, I know you probably look at Ru, say Ru's got a big audience already, and um, you know, it's gonna be easier for him and he's got me. Okay, That's fair. But I think if you find your specific niche, which you do have more knowledge than others, which I believe everyone will have something, even if it's wacky and crazy, there will be something and you know, your main objective will be trying to monetize it.
Right? So Ruby's monetizing all his knowledge through an app. He's already done it through a podcast, done it through a book, but he's realized that um, to win big, he has to do it, to do the app. And what does win big mean is, or touch more people and Yeah, from a money perspective as well, So. Reinvest it, um, to then help others.
So I feel everyone's got their niche. I just need to figure out that niche and, you know, Ru's been on this mission for years and I just feel everyone needs to go on that [00:18:00] mission. I hope everyone does find, if it feels right to them, if that, you know, from listening to podcasting, it's like, Hey, shit, I need to do something.
Um, and you can feel it in your heart, like when I'm speaking right now, then I believe there is something there for you.
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