Welcome. On today's podcast, I am so excited to share an interview I did with Dana K. White. She is the author, podcaster, YouTuber, blogger from A Slob Comes Clean. You may be familiar with her from her very popular books, How to Manage Your Home Without Losing Your Mind or Decluttering at the Speed of Life. She created a five-step, no-mess decluttering system that creates progress and only progress.
And finally figuring out how to get your house in control for those of us that really, really struggle. I have mentioned her many times on this podcast. I think her techniques are fantastic. She has really put so much work into creating resources for every possible objection, you may have or every eventuality you may struggle with.
So if you are not familiar with her somehow and you want to explore more after listening to this podcast, she has so many resources and I will put into the show notes all the different links of how to watch her or listen to her or order her books and such. So they will all be in the show notes. If you are.
Entering this interview with a lot of knowledge of her, and you've heard her speak on other interviews about her decluttering progress and process, this is going to be a very different interview. We are actually discussing her brand new book that is coming out, which is called Jesus Doesn't Care About Your Messy House. And if that causes you to put on your brakes, because you are not a Jesus person, that is okay.
I would still encourage you to listen because we dig into why she avoided talking about Jesus in the beginning of her work and for however many years she's been at this. Like I said, I think she's five books in and over 400 podcasts and I don't even know how many YouTube videos. And she's not made this her brand. This is not what she has been about. But all of a sudden now, she is writing this book from this Christian perspective, and we dig into why not before now? Why now?
What is the message you're getting across with this book? So I hope that you will enjoy this sort of new take on her because it is a little different than the interviews I've listened with her in the past. I will say if you are finding me because you were searching for her, welcome. I am so glad you took a chance to listen to this podcast.
You will get to know me a little bit because I, in my nervous energy of interviewing somebody I admire and respect, I overshare a little bit at the beginning of the interview. so I will not drag on as to who I'm about. But I will say if you enjoy it and it sounds like a place you would like to stick around, I will invite you to please listen to more of my own podcast. There are over 250 episodes that you can dig into. And yeah, without further ado, we will jump in.
I will say, however, one last thing, her new book comes out a week from today. And so if you are interested in doing a pre-order and grabbing her pre-order bonuses, there is still time to do that. And I will put the links to that in the show notes as well. So enjoy. A wise person once said, everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it's stupid.
Well fish quit trying to climb trees while getting advice from well-intentioned monkeys it's time to jump in the water and learn how to swim with the current of your life i'm joy a professional organizer mom of four and fellow fish brain if you're looking for a place to get understanding encouragement and ideas for your home that actually fit how your brain thinks then i'm glad you're here let's ditch the type a advice and embrace what makes our brains and our homes unique.
Together, we could have a joy-loving home. I am so excited to be able to have this opportunity to chat with you. And I have to tell you, my audience, and I respect how much you, I've been reading a bunch about you, how you like sort of prep people when they're coming on to interview with you, things to anticipate about their audience. So I feel like I should sort of share with you who my audience is.
And so my quote-unquote audience is a stay-at-home mom, possibly with school-age kids, who has either been diagnosed with ADHD or believes she may have ADHD and has tried all the things and is struggling. And so my big analogy that we exist with is that quote that I used to think was from Einstein, but it's. It's, who knows, who knows said it, but the whole, if you, everyone's a genius, but if you ask a fish to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it's stupid.
So we talk all the time. Our language is we're fish brains and we're tired of getting advice from monkeys who are trying to teach us how to climb trees. And it's like, well, you're a monkey. You're meant to climb a tree. So the way I got into professional organizing is because I was so upset with myself that I started down this rabbit hole of focus, trying to figure out how to get myself organized. And all of a sudden, I'm like two hours away from a certification.
So I got the certification, and I dubbed myself the unorganized professional organizer. So I would go into homes, and sometimes I'm asked to make the pantry pretty, and I can do that. But I got so much more reward from helping people who were really struggling and didn't understand why. And that's how I happened upon you. And I knew a lot about you from some of the videos, mostly podcasts and bits of books here and there.
And then I got a chance to interview about this newest book and I read it first and, fell in love, then read this second in entirety and this third in entirety. So I'm sort of going backwards through your catalog of things. And this may come as a surprise, but I am now 85% through with your decluttering coaching certification. I was like, oh, you do that. That's wonderful. So yeah, I'm like, I literally have the do it with a real person left.
And I'm like there. So you may see me on the other side of your life soon, but. I love it. Well, just so you know, because I've just been having these conversations with my assistant, but we're actually doing a retreat for the coaches at the end of April. So if you're like, okay, I want to do that. So I want to go ahead and get, you know. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, no, I will definitely catalog that in the back of my brain.
And so the other part I wanted to jump past is I will do a lovely introduction before we're even playing this part. So they're going to know who you are. And it always drives me crazy, probably my ADHD brain, when you listen to this long introduction and then the first thing they say is, tell us about yourself. And I mention you all the time on my podcast, so you are not news to my audience.
But I just, if there was anything in general that you wanted to share about like what you stand for, to me, it is your five-step decluttering program that is progress and only progress, that leaves you with no messes, that is better and less are sort of your mantras? Anything to that that you're like, you're missing a piece? No, I think that's it. It is possible to declutter without making a bigger mess. That's the big.
How much do you want to go, what percentages on the decluttering and the Jesus? I would love to dive into your new book because I've been fishing around in interviews that you've been with other people. And it seems to be a lot about the decluttering. So I think if people are searching, they can find that with you all over the place. And I would love to explore your new book if that's okay. Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course.
I try to ask because I'm like, especially since you do focus on decluttering. I'm like, I don't know where people are on how much they want to talk about the spiritual side of things. And I will say I have put out, I have like a group and I put out, you know, I've been, I've been hinting that I'm so excited to get to interview with you. And I was like, if there's any questions you guys want me to ask her, so I have three and we can either hit those at the end and, or we can talk about those.
You do whatever you want to do. Yeah. You're, you're in charge. But so, okay, I have to say in reading your discography backwards, or I don't know if that's the right word, your whole battery of books backwards, one thing struck me, and this will lead us into your newest book. So I don't know if anybody's pointed out this to you, but I'm going to read your words if you don't mind. In your very first book, your final acknowledgement was to God.
And you said, thanks for creating me exactly as I am and for directing me on this journey. I would never have chosen, but which is much better than the one I have designed. And so this was all the way back in 2016. Maybe you were writing it in 2015. I don't know how long it takes to put a book out. But did you always think this was going to be a book you would write? Or why now did it finally hit you as, I'm ready for this part?
Yeah, I mean, so the whole beginning of my story was that I wanted to be a writer. I wanted to encourage women. I'm a Christian. Like, that's a big part of everything in my life. And so I think before I actually started writing, you know, which it was my compromise to write about this, right? Like, this was supposed to be my practice blog. That's why it was anonymous, so that I could write about the thing I really wanted to write about.
So I think writing about my faith was more what I assumed I would be doing in the beginning, right? Right. And then I started writing about my house as a practice thing to try to get my house under control because it was holding me back from writing about the things I thought I was going to be writing about, right? And so I think that that...
The big adjustment for me, the big giving over was acknowledging and accepting that cleaning and organizing and decluttering was what I was going to be writing about. That was the shot to me, right? And then to accept that that was what God had me to write about. I was like, because it's like, really this? Yes. This is the thing. This thing that has always been my lifelong struggle.
That's the actual like ministry that you've somehow given me, you know, but it's so much more beautiful because I'm like, I'm, I know the intensity of this need because it was my own need. Right. And so I get so much joy and satisfaction from being able to help people with this thing that I understand the need, you know, and I understand. How, how much the need was not being met. Right.
Right. And I, I think I've learned and I've seen, you know, there are, but it's like the, the things that get the most attention on this, like you said, we're talking before about, you know, you can color code a pantry when you help somebody, right. You know, but that's the stuff that, that gets all the attention out there. And that ultimately for my core audience, which was me, right. So I do know my core audience really well, because that's myself.
Like that would, that kind of inspiration would backfire for me. Right. Yeah. Right. Because I would see it and I would go, of course I want that. Now I don't anymore. Like I'm like, I'm good. Right. But when I was so overwhelmed, I was like, of course I want that. But every time I try to do something like that, it fails miserably and I feel worse about myself and it's harder to do anything the next time. And, you know, that that bad cycle of things. Does that answer your question?
Because I ramble. I'm a rambler. I'm a rambler, too. And my audience will be fine with it. I think I had so many questions in my head as I've been reading through. I was like, oh, you are definitely in the brain.
I am my audience as well. So in the brain of folks like us, who I always say one of the most intriguing things when I was trying to walk the professional organizer route at the beginning was it was like getting to sit inside a meeting with the foxes about how they were going to attack the hen house. But you're a hen and you're like, oh, they don't understand us at all. Oh, they think they understand us, but they don't understand us.
And it was almost patronizing some of the comments about why we couldn't figure out that socks didn't belong in the kitchen. And it's like, but in the way I live, the kids run out the door right outside the kitchen, and that's the place where they end up. So why can I not put them there?
Whose rules say I can't put them there? And I think one of the sweetest chapters, and I don't remember which book because I've read them in such fast succession, is when you take the time to talk about, this has zero to do with intelligence. Some of the highest functioning people have messy houses because they know how to function within it. Yes. And I just think that more people need to hear that part of it hitting home. Yes. This is that. It left fire.
Exactly. It's not a lack of desire. It's not. And so... Feeling so misunderstood as the person with the messy house is a big part of the reason I couldn't make any progress because people would think it was helpful to tell me, you need to get your house under control so you can focus and do things. And I'm like, yeah, that's actually now I know that's actually why my house was so out of control, because I can focus and do things and let my house go to total shambles.
Right, right. Right. And I always have felt this like it wasn't bothering me to that degree because my focus was somewhere else. Yes. And it brings me an interesting question. And this is not in the book. And we're talking about the Jesus book. And I didn't jump in here with the title is Jesus Doesn't Care About Your Messy House. He Cares About Your Heart. And you have to read for the He Cares About Your Heart. Because I think it's a very intriguing title to jump in and be like,
okay, who's going to grab this off the shelf? and what are they going to learn? And I find it interesting because I think you're going to get an audience from various directions, right? Because you're going to get people who always knew you and there won't be a lot of, well, there might be surprises because I don't think you've worn your faith as your brand. If you were looking for it, it was there. You didn't hide anything, but you haven't.
And I don't know if that was intentional at first because you wanted to be open to anybody to hear. Your five-step decluttering process works regardless of your faith. Right. And I think actually that's a really good point because it was very intentional to not include my faith in my first books because anytime I had read cleaning, organizing, decluttering stuff that had a Christian spin on it. It ended up causing me a lot of spiritual guilt.
Yes. And you address that in the book so beautifully. Right. And so that was why, because as I worked on my house trying to figure it out, I assumed because of that kind of thing, and I don't think anybody meant, intended that to be the case, but that's what had happened when I had read those things that had to put a spiritual spin on it. Like, you know, you got to be a good steward of your space and God is a God of order and but, you know, all these things.
And I don't say that like sarcastically. I'm just saying like those were the that was meant to be encouraging and it always backfired. And so as I was working on my house, I thought, well, clearly I'm missing something spiritually. That's what I assumed. Like I it felt like my house was a spiritual failure. Yeah. Because I felt that way, I thought, okay, God's going to finally show me the thing that I have been missing. I'm finally going to understand the spiritual principle.
I'm finally going to run across the verse that I have somehow not been able to find that's going to change everything for me. And instead, what God showed me was this is not a spiritual issue. It's related to how I made your brain. I'm not horrified by your house. I don't care about your messy house. I care about your heart. Right? Like, I get it. I made you the way that I made you on purpose. You're designed, not defective, right? Like, this is how I made you. I made you creative.
I made you driven. I made you the way that you are, which is directly related to the fact that you struggle with the physical stuff in your house, right? And so that's why I didn't include spiritual content, because God had showed me this is not a spiritual issue. But now it's time for me to talk about, because a lot of specifically Christian women, and I think women in general, feel guilt over their home.
And I'm like, let's take that away and let's talk about the grace and what God actually does care about and also what the Bible does say about this issue. So, because removing that shame is actually the thing that allows you to move forward. Like, I love that your community is focused on, you know, our brains are made differently, right? Like, I love that you just embrace that head on because that's the truth.
Like, and accepting that actually freed me to make the progress I'd always wanted to make. Where as long as I was looking at things going, I need to be different than I am. I never made progress. When I accepted, oh, this is the way my brain works. Right. That's when I finally made progress. Right. Yes. So feeling understood is actually the thing that lets you change, like feeling understood as you are, lets you change.
And so I find that so fascinating what you were saying about, you know, the naturally organized people trying to identify what it was that was our problem. And not getting it. Yeah. It's looking from the outside and you have to have something that's on the inside understanding.
And that's where it's funny because I love when I listen to things that you're on and when you're doing Q&As and I swear the thing that people buck against and two out of the three questions from my community are the same thing that they're bucking against is the whole like, take it there now. And you're like, guys, I promise you, I have done it all. I have tried it all. I have done it all. I have resisted it all for all the same reasons you're resisting it.
But if you're asking me what works, you've got to stop and take it there now. And it's even like doing your coaching training. I was so invested in all of your books and listening to the trainings and doing all the things. And then I practiced on myself and I actually videoed myself practicing it for my group, just inside my little group. And I said, the reason I'm videoing this is one, I needed the accountability.
And two, unfortunately, so many times we come into the middle of somebody's journey. I love that your blog exists so people could go way back and see what it was like in the beginning. Because now if you're encountering you, it's like, well, yeah, but she got there so quickly. And it's like, no, no, no, you're encountering her way into her journey. So I was like, I'm going to record the first time I do this so that you can see what I struggle with.
Like the first time you're going to do these five steps, you're going to mess something up. There's nothing real to mess up, but you know what I mean? Like that you're going to resist something and fight yourself even in something that you know works. And you've been evidentially based like thousands of people proving it works. But when you've been taught other things for so long. And particularly because I did my professional organizing training first,
we were pulling all the things out. We were sorting all the things. We were then finding the containers and we weren't using them like your container concept. And if anybody's listening and doesn't know what that is for you, go find, and I'll put a link in the show notes to her YouTube videos on the big aha of a container concept, because it does make a huge difference. It's approaching it.
And this is what I was going to ask you. I don't know if you have ever articulated it this way, but I think the biggest difference between what you have taught women and what the organizing space teaches women is like I've been taught to go into a person's space. They don't even have to be there. I'm dealing with the stuff. I am making the stuff work. And you're the opposite.
You're like, this isn't about your stuff. This is about your space, who's living in it, how much space there is to live in it, in the life you want to live in it. Now let's look at the stuff. It's not about let's look at the stuff and figure out the stuff and fix the stuff. Right, right. I mean, I, because I, I'm really big on don't start by buying stuff, places to put your things. And I get the questions all the time. Like, but I don't have the shelves that I'm going to have.
I don't have the thing that I'm going to have. And I'm like, whatever you do, declutter first.
Like because even 99% of the time you don't actually need to buy any new shelves right like because those of us who struggle with clutter it's not because we don't have enough shelves or bins or baskets like that's most of the time people will tell me I've actually decluttered a bunch of shelves that was my experience too you know I decluttered shelves I decluttered baskets I decluttered bins because I was like oh I actually don't need these but they used to feel like the solution, right?
And so people are like, but can I buy another piece of furniture? And I'm like, well, it's your house. Do whatever you want to do, but declutter first and then buy the furniture for the space. You know, I have a video that'll come out at some point. I have no idea. I've already done all for the whole year, you know, so I don't know exactly when things are coming out. But it's about that. Like, it's about decluttering for.
Or, you know, buying your stuff because the piece of furniture has to fit within the container that's the room. Like the room is a container. So that's it has to fit in that space. And then, you know, you declutter your stuff down to that, that reality. So, I mean, yeah, it's it's such a and that's my thing. Like this whole like what did God have me do?
I didn't know my job in life was going to be the translator between the naturally organized person who sees the value of doing this thing and wants to help other people and the person who wants the help but there's like a communication gap between the two you know because because the thing that is so obvious that they don't even need to put it into words is the reality of the containers are meant to serve as limits.
You know, they may not have those words, but they're like, but that's what they are. And I'm like, oh, I didn't see that because I have this wonderful personality, that does not see limits. And the world needs people who don't see limits. But also it backfired in my home. Yeah. Well, I was going to ask you too, the one biblical story that I have hung my hat on very self-righteously that you did not bring up in your book, which I think is interesting, is the whole Martha and the Mary.
And you can take these whole quizzes like, are you a Martha? Are you a Mary? And I was always like, Martha is the naturally organized type A hostess with the mostest that is making sure all the things are set before Jesus walks in the door. And Mary just plops down on his feet and just like soaks it in and doesn't think about where all things necessary. And so I was like, see Jesus like patted Mary on the back and not Martha.
And I wish there was like a follow-up to Martha of like what Martha was doing wasn't wrong by any means. It was- I'm going to tell you, I actually identify more with Martha. Okay. And so I think that it gets down to the heart. Like, I think there can be, you know, it was Mary's heart was focused on Christ, right? And so I think that that same heart exists in the busy, organized, and the non.
I don't think that we can say you're a Martha if your space is organized and you're a Mary if your space is unorganized.
Because i think there are all of that like i am actually as the person whose home was out of control i actually picture myself doing the martha thing of running around and trying to make sure and being stressed out about my space and my friends whose spaces are generally under control i see them as being able to relax more do you know what i mean yeah yeah no that i love that perspective on it.
And that's not why it was it was anything you were drawn to for the book, because you see the heart in both scenarios. Yeah, I probably should have included it, but maybe I'll just do some sort of a thing, you know, some point because I do that does come up. But I think it's a great conversation to have. Right. Like, yeah, I am a much more type A personality. And I think that the assumption is that a messy house is not a type A personality. I do think that's an assumption.
And therefore, that was part of my confusion is I was like, you know, I mean, I don't think I could have built the business that I've built without that type of drive. And so it's like the heart has to be correct for either of those situations. You know what I mean? Like you can have the correct, like you're saying, like you can have the correct heart just letting it all go because you're focusing on Jesus. That's great. You can have the correct heart. So it's like he was correcting her heart,
not her housekeeping style. That's a good quote right there, right? Yes. Well, and it's interesting too because one of my aha moments when reading through your books, just because I love a good analogy that I haven't thought of, was the whole project brain.
So to be able to swirl through and do these major complicated projects that you have done, and be able to leave the rest behind in the midst of those, But then to approach your house in the same sort of project brain was a big moment where you had to stop and like refocus and refilter that. And I love, it's funny, I have a best friend. We are like opposites in that I think, and we talk about this a lot, she's a little bit OCD.
And her hyper focus on her house, and you see this a lot online, is celebrated.
Even if it's it's still as debilitating almost for either end but we celebrate one side and we shame the other and both need to be brought like sometimes she can't focus on the joy and the jesus walking through her life because she's like but everything's not just so yeah where sometimes we can't focus on the jesus moment in our life because we're ashamed to bring him through the door and it's like trying to figure out how to meet in the middle on that and that's
what oh go ahead I was about to say she was about to ask she asked me when I was telling her all this was happening she's like is this a book I would enjoy because I don't know that I would gravitate to it because I would see messy house and go oh that's not me but you can sub messy house with your messages to anything a person struggles with exactly and you know I have a friend as well who, she will tell me, she's like, I wish I could.
Put my, you know, non-refrigerated or frozen groceries on the table and forget about them. She's like, I wish I could do that. She's like, I can't take on the big projects because the thing that runs through my mind is, but what about my house? When will I have time to do the things? And I'm like, oh, I take on the big projects that need doing and never stop to think about what the effect is going to be on my house, you know?
And so like the world needs both of us, right? But also it can be debilitating. I actually love, I've heard from multiple people who have been clinically diagnosed with OCD. So, you know, I mean, that's one of those terms that you're like, OCD. And I'm like, no, no, it's actually debilitating, you know, in many ways. And it's not a great thing, right, for the person who's struggling with that.
But I have heard from many who are like, actually, your process, specifically the habits and the, you know, cleaning routines and stuff and how to manage your home without losing your mind, were very helpful for them because they were like, okay, I can do the dishes and be done and not have to upset. I can go, okay, I can mop my floor on Thursday morning, and then I don't have to constantly obsess over my floor because I'm like, no, I did the thing.
Not that I'm claiming to be a mental health professional in any way. I don't want to ever claim that. But that has been helpful for them to be able to relax. So yeah, and here's the thing is I have heard this message, the same message of Jesus cares about your heart. He was never looking for you to have a perfect house. I've heard the same message told to the person who can't stop cleaning, right? And God revealed to them and showed them, I've been looking at your heart.
It's okay to relax. You can show your imperfections. It's okay to not be perfect. And the reaction for me as the person whose home was disastrously messy and felt unconquerable to me is I would look at that and go, well, that sounds like a really great problem to have, right? Which is kind of one of those things with OCD. Like I used to think, which I have a few tendencies on certain things that I have to really, you know,
I don't know. Like, I can see the, you know, obsessing over the checking 15 times if I've unplugged the iron or whatever. You know, so I mean, but I am. So I don't think OCD is definitely not always, the result is not always, you know, a perfect home. That's, you know, there's lots of different ways that that can present itself, right? But I've definitely thought, wouldn't it be great? Wouldn't that be fun? I remember the show Monk. Do you remember? Did you ever watch that show?
I never have watched that. Yeah. He had OCD that did result in, you know, everything being, you know, clean in his house, but it was also very debilitating for him as well. But I can remember watching that going, I wish I was like that because I could see certain things he did that I very much related to. I was like, man, I wish it resulted in my house being perfect. But I felt like it was very important to come at this. What about those of us who feel completely bewildered by and overwhelmed by
our home? Like, does that same, I'm looking at your house, not your heart, does, I mean, I'm sorry, oops, I'm looking at your heart, not your house, sorry. Like, Jesus saying, I'm looking at your heart, not your house, does that apply to me, too? Right. You know, like, if my issue is not that I need to relax and let it be a little messier, but instead, no, this is something I feel completely incompetent at, does it still apply to me?
And the answer is yes, because it's just true. God's looking at your heart, not your house. Right, right. And I love, I do, you know, and I told her after reading the whole thing, because we were talking before I got through it, is I think anybody could pick this up. And the principles you're getting across about, this is about your heart. This is about you were created for a reason. And who you are is God understood it all the way from the beginning and knows what you're struggling with.
But what I love, and this is the interesting thing that, you know, I will leave some teasers for people because I want them to get the book, is just you diving into, but what if my messy house still bothers me? Like, okay, great, God, I love that you love my heart, and maybe I can relax about that, but that's not my past and never want to get it together, you know? And so finding that, well, if it's important to you, it's also important to Jesus.
So, and you go into some depths and some chapters about magic and miracles and things that I think are worth the read for anybody to kind of go, can I picture my thing right now in the midst of this? Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's the unique position that I'm in as someone who has written three books about how to get your house under control is that I think this is kind of funny.
I was just on a call with my Patreon people, and somebody was talking about the book, and she was like, her church is going to do it as a Bible study, which makes me excited, you know.
And she said that she went to her pastor about it and his first reaction and I think he was being funny you know but his first reaction was oh no no no I don't want my wife to read that book because then she'll think it's fine to have a messy house and I'm like he was he was but then he saw that it was by me and he went oh I've read her book which makes me laugh too you know but but like oh I've read her book absolutely yes that sounds great right and and so even though oh,
yes, he was being funny and he wasn't like going into the whole, like, okay, let's get into this spiritually. That's actually kind of the point. Do you know what I mean? Is that the reaction to Jesus doesn't care about your messy house when you just hear that phrase is like, oh, no, if we let people know that, then they won't clean up. Clean up. Right. And let's just be honest. It's more convenient for everybody if it's clean. right?
And so then you are like, well, I don't want to let somebody know that Jesus doesn't care about their messy house because then what if they don't clean? Well, that's control versus grace, right? It's like I'm withholding grace out of a desire to have you do the thing that I hope want you to do. But let's have the conversation because I also know that the people whose houses are messy, it's not because they don't want it to be clean.
That's actually the most hurtful and offensive thing is when people say the phrases which I have heard said many many times in my life which is I guess she doesn't care I guess she likes it that way I guess it doesn't bother her and I'm like oh it bothered me greatly yes and it was not for lack of trying right that my house was a disaster and so so like really going in at it from all those angles and let's Like have this deep conversation
because it's really important because ultimately nothing matters if I don't understand who Jesus is. Like I, and, and my relationship with him, like literally nothing matters except for that. And so, and if, if, you know, it's, it's a great way to get off track by thinking that either I have failed him because of my house being disaster or that I am getting closer to him by having this perfect home.
Like both of those things are getting me off track and we got to get all those things out on the table and let's hash it out love it love it now out of curiosity because I definitely know I have people in my audience I am not. I, like you, have never hidden my faith for any real reason, but it is also not part of my brand. There may be people like, oh, I can't believe you interviewed her about a Christian book. I don't care. Right, exactly. Yeah. Are you worried at all, like, how it's received?
Like, what do you say when you're like, oh, now she's turning into this, like, Christian author? Yeah, I mean, I know that that will happen. It's one of the reasons why the very blunt, in-your-face title was so important to me. Because I always, like, my other books don't have Christian content. There is a reason for that. And this book talks about the reason for that. And I'm not here to, like, bait and switch or trick you into reading a Christian book or anything like that.
This one is a Christian book. Like, you know from the title that this is a Christian book, right? But I also know, and I haven't experienced it yet with this one, strangely, but I know in the past when I have talked about Jesus, people do not like you to talk about Jesus. And I get it. I understand that, and I'm ready for that. But I did come to this point, my husband and I had the conversation. I was like, okay, so realistically, people might get mad.
What? My dog. Sorry. Listen, I didn't hear anything. Okay, good. But yeah, I've got dogs too. And sometimes they go berserk. And yeah, it's how it goes. No, I mean, we had the conversation. Yeah, we did. We were like, okay, so let's say the worst possible thing happens, which is not the worst possible thing, right? But let's say that the haters come out because I talk about Jesus and that my YouTube channel goes away and the podcast goes away and the other books stop selling.
I'm like, is it still worth it to me to write this book? And we were like, yeah, it is. Because... It's ultimately the only thing that matters, right? Like, and so, and also because I know, you know, I've kind of, I never wanted to be the poster child for this issue. Like, as far as like, oh, it's a legitimate issue, you know, because I think sometimes people just don't want to legitimize this issue of struggling in your home.
And I didn't really want to be the person that comes out there and is like, it's a real issue, you know, because there are people who they say, you know, I have a video and I talked about it in the book, but I have a video called The Layers of a Clean House, right? And it's one of my concepts that I teach of like, that I didn't understand. Like my friend would say, she never cleans. And I was like, what are you talking about? Your house looks great.
I spend all my time cleaning and my house is a disaster. Well, it's because there's daily stuff that I wasn't doing daily. So every time I did try to clean, I was having to catch up on all that. I had so much clutter that there was no possible way for me to actually do the cleaning, you know? and that video is, has done really, really well for me, but it's also very divisive, right?
Like people are, I, and I delete the ones, you know, where like just this week I had somebody like, what are you a child? Like child, children know this thing. Like how in the world does someone not know this? And I'm like, you know what? Look at the views on this video and look at all the comments of people saying, what, this is the thing I didn't understand.
And so I'm like, I have to be willing to take the negative stuff because if I don't take the negative stuff, then I'm not getting the word out to the people who need to know it. Right. And so I see how this is an embarrassing subject. I don't love telling the world that this is my struggle, but it needs to be told because people need to hear it.
And so same thing. I'm like, I am willing to say this. You know, I mean, I'm going to get push, the pushback I've gotten has been from Christians at this point, you know? So I'm like, but I'm like, again, that's a little bit about me. When you push back, it kind of makes me go harder. So just saying, like, when you tell me that, you know, that's just part of my personality that God created me with for this purpose, you know?
I don't know. I feel like I'm rambling again, but does that answer your question? Yes. And it's interesting because one of the things I was going to say to you is you address so many of the pushbacks from just the whole decluttering process and but, but, but you, there are some things in this book that probably hadn't been addressed before because you hadn't talked about this, the guilt, the spiritual guilt, the spiritual shame, the, the, my deeds are getting me closer to Jesus.
And because I can't get those done, I'm failing. So it is sort of a, an evolution of had you not written this book, you're, you're pushing back for all of the butter, butters, but versus you, this is, this is actually an aspect.
So it's, it was time to address it, I guess it's it's and I'll be very curious to your point you'll have people who pick it up because it's a Christian book and and bulk or don't bulk but are introduced to you you have people who love you and this is just another aspect and then you have people who are like well I can't pick that up because it's a Christian book and I don't want to hear that side of it but you have if they don't want to pick this book up the other books to your point
were intentionally emotionally away from that. So if it's not part of, I don't want to think about my house as a Christian aspect, I can still utilize all your others. It still exists. Yeah. I mean, the help is still there. I'm not like, this is not the deal breaker, but it is a really essential part.
For, I mean, I believe for everybody, you know, but especially for the Christian woman who has felt the shame, you know, which even just, you know, I was telling you about that conversation that we had in my Patreon call, you know, was she was saying she was nervous because she was like, These are lovely people at my church who I love, but they're also the people who've said some really hurtful things to me over the years, you know?
So they didn't mean it to be hurtful. And that's kind of the point is like people are not intentionally hurting you. But when they don't understand, then this quick fix that they have of, oh, just have more faith and you won't have clutter. Well, now you just took this thing that I didn't know what to do with. I didn't know how to handle my clutter. And you just said that it's actually a spiritual failure. You're telling, what you're saying when you tell me that is that I don't have
enough faith. And then I start to go, wait, what? You know, because I can't deal with the clutter. And now you're telling me that it's also, I'm also failing God. Like, wait, what? You know, so all those things go together. And I feel like this has, this rounds out the conversation. But yeah, of course, the other books are still there for, you know, to meet the needs of the people who are never going to read this book.
But of course, I desire to, you know, that relationship to go deeper by talking about the spiritual side of things, which is ultimately about the shame around
this issue. So, yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. I will say in sort of one last thing as we're wrapping up, but one of the other things that I connected so deeply with, and I think my audience in particular does, is you made the comment about how, and this happens all the time, and I don't think women realize it, and I don't think that there's ever any intention, but when you're in a women-only scenario.
And there's comments about, oh, my husband this, and oh, I can't believe he did that, And I'm secretly going, okay, that's me. That's me. Because my husband is the very neat type A, we call him monkey brain over here. Because he's the one who will ingest, say things like, gosh, if we only knew a professional organizer, we'd get this place pulled together. And I'm just like, women are both, like, it's not a male-female thing. It's not a Christian, non-Christian thing.
It's not, it's, it's, if you are struggling in your house, you need to think about it differently because your brain is operating differently and let's embrace it and let's walk ways that work. And so, and yet because of those conversations, a lot of us are out here thinking about, there's something wrong with me and I'm the only one who struggles this way.
Like those conversations are the reason because I couldn't, I couldn't be open and honest in those conversations because I did a time or two and I got, I mean, I got some major pushback, you know, like I got shamed basically. And so again, that's the whole like, I don't want to be the poster child for this, but I am willing to do it because I know how much people need to hear this message. They need to hear the message. They also need to hear that there's hope.
There's actually a way. You know what I mean? Like, it is possible for you to change your home. But the freedom to change your home without it being a spiritual issue, you know, without it being a spiritual failure is like, ah, okay. Yeah. I love it. Would you like to share before we wrap up any details about when the book's coming out, pre-order bonuses, how to get it, anything like that? It comes out February 11th. Do you know when this podcast will come out?
I'm trying to drop it on Monday, which will be February 3rd. They'll be listening to this February 3rd. So there's still time. Yes, there's still time. It comes out February 11th, which is just Tuesday, which all books come out on Tuesdays. I don't know if you knew that. I didn't know that until I started writing books. But excuse me, I just burped. Are you going to be able to cut that out? Yes. I'm so sorry. I didn't hear it either. I'm going to cut it out. Leave it in. I don't care. Whatever.
But no yeah it comes out february 11th it's a tuesday it if you order it before it comes out, And sometimes I'll leave the pre-order bonuses going for a couple of days, but you get a preview of the books. I think it's the first two chapters, but you only get it if you go to aslobcomesclean.com. That's my website, aslobcomesclean.com slash Jesus. So the bonuses don't come with the book.
There's no way for me to know that somebody has pre-ordered unless they go fill out the form at aslobcomesclean.com slash Jesus. So you get preview of the book. You get a five-day Bible study. You get invitations to Q&As after the book comes out. So those invitations will go out about a week after the book comes out, give people time to kind of read it if they want to. And I'm dividing those up into groups because I'm like, I get that we're in all different places here.
And so I'm going to do two each for people who are like, I'm all in on this subject matter, you know, and then And I'm going to do one, two, for people who are like, okay, I'm not sure how I feel about this. You know, I have got questions here. And then I want to do another one, another two sessions for people who are like, no, absolutely not on the Jesus stuff.
But I did read the book because we're friends or whatever, you know, like, because there's just there's such a range of how people, their reaction to, you know, to Jesus and the subject matter that I want to, like, be there. For all of them and let us have those conversations. Love that. I love that. It's definitely an enjoyable read. And I can say from experience, if this is the first book you're picking up of Dana's, it exists by itself.
You don't have to know anything about you prior to reading it, but it may take you on a journey like it did with me where I then go backwards because they're all standalone, but they're all worth reading. That makes me so happy. Thank you so much for saying in that. I appreciate that. All right. Well, I have enjoyed this time so much. Thank you. Me too. It's been so fun to meet you.
I really hope you enjoyed that lengthy interview, but I hope you got lost in it while either walking or riding or maybe working on your home. If you are wanting to jump into more of Dana K. White, I just want to let you know, you can reach anything about her at aslobcomesclean.com. If you're wanting to order her book and get her pre-order bonuses, go to aslobcomesclean.com slash Jesus.
You can find out all the information there, and then you can visit all the things about me on joylovinghome.com. Until next time, I hope you continue to choose joy.