Yvette Nicole Brown

The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascals Stand Up Tour continues throughout twenty twenty four. For a full list of dates and tickets, go to the Craig Ferguson show dot com slash tour. See you out there, the Greig Ferguson show dot com slash Tour. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interest in people about what brings them happiness. Vetnico Brown is pure class. She's been my friend for a long time. She's a very good actress. She's a very serious person, and she's

I miss our time?

Well, you know what, We're going to take care of that right now. Somebody's gonna bring coffee though, So you're gonna bring coffee?

Oh yes, please, I'll take one too, now that you talk about it. Yes, I got a lot to do today, right.

But we can start. But we can start before the coffee gets sure, that's fine. Do you know what? Why are you wearing a mask? Because Vet was wearing a mask, worn a mask in two days?

Now? Are you wearing a nice.

You want me to wear a mask?

How, No, you can't do all we're on the radio. See how kind it was of him to just want to do that for me.

They're nice guys. I'm just I just didn't know if there was a reason that he thought it's.

A nice podcast situation in here too? You know, is this your studio?

I own this whole buildings laughing because I just told you it's believable.

Yeah, but he would be shipped poker, and I.

Wish it was. Yeah, he giggled. He giggled. Why too fast?

He giggled.

He was like, because I do you think that I could own a whole building in Hollywood?

Absolutely? Do you know what?

I would call it the vent? Yeah?

And you know why because I would want it to be like the auditorium in your old high school, which I have to say, congratulations. I can't believe you had the auditorium in your own high school named after because Cenio hallway to your high school.

And he did. And I think if it's a Cenial Hall, you know what you have just made me feel like I need to rescind the offer. I'm going next week to get the honor and graduation thank you. No, it's really it's honestly, I joke about it, but it is like an oscar to me because I love my hometown and Warnswell Heights High School by the way, and our

I did some gigs with him and Jaylan during the summer. We did some casino gigs together, and he's just great.

He's just decent, you know how when you meet people. That's the word that I would use for him. He actually he doesn't get credit for this. He also has a hand in me finally meeting Jana Jackson. So I've been trying to meet Jana Jackson for so long, and finally I was like, who do I know that Gudner And I'm like, Enione knows everybody. So I reached out to him, and he said, I'm going to reach out to Johnny. It became like a what do you call it?

So now you and jen and Jackson hang out.

I believe we're friends. Now you have to ask Janet if it's true.

I would ask her, but I can't get to get in touch with our stdeo and he's going to Yeah.

It works, it's a it's a good way.

But listen, the school you went to. You you're from Cleveland, right, That's why I think of you as from Cleveland.

I am from born in East Cleveland, graduated from Warrenswell Heights, which is like a suburb of East Cleveland or suburb.

Of clic Is it near Akron?

Akron is about thirty or forty minutes away, which is where I went to college.

Because I knew there was a connection with you with Akron, because you know that Alcoholics Anonymous started in that.

I did not know that. Yeah, I know Akron for my college. Yeah Zippers, which they are known for rubber.

Yeah, rubber tho all the tire factories used to be right, that's right, and Lebron James and Lebron James.

He's not in your high.

School, you know, he's I wish I was his a I've got him by good twelve years, I think.

Now let me ask you this. In the Hall of Fame at your high school, yes, you obviously, or senior hall who's not got the hall named after him, which I still think is a serious man problem.

But who else is in the Hall of fame? Is there anything else? I would know?

Brad Cellars okay, I'm not familiar with basketball.

Player, okay.

And also I think he's currently our mayor. I think Brad is currently still our mayor of Warrensville. And then a lot of like city dignitaries and pastors and you know, people like that, people that have made their name for themselves.

It was like a very kind of good school.

It is a good school.

Was it a good experience growing up?

It was? You know, I'm a nerd though, like I love I love school, So my school experience I was like front row center nerd, that kind of thing. I did all the extra curriculars. I was drama and the band and quiet you know, so that school was great for me. East Cleveland is a great place to be from because it's the hood. Yeah, and it teaches you, you know, how to survive in life. I think that I'm able to make it in la and in this industry because I was born bred and East Cleveland it's swamish.

What does that look like in terms of the hood? It is like was there a drug crime?

Was there? Is that what it was?

At?

Your drugs? Violence? You know a little bit of lawlessness. You know, listen, people people have free time and not enough opportunities. And when you when you when that's the situation, sometimes you you don't make the best decisions. And also, you know, we can talk about systemic racism and all the other things that cause something to be considered a hood and why people can't get out or why they

Every person is a different stories. Absolutely. I think that one of the things.

That I have a kind of I got annoyed about and as I get older, there's a lot of them. Most of them are people on my loan but on my hip. But one of the things I get annoyed about is when is when you take a group of people, no matter who they are, and you just say this is what these people are, Like, I see.

That's not it. That's not gonna help.

It's not it.

And I mean I come from a lively area in Scotland and Scotland and it wasn't race because you know, everyone was. There were people of other races, but it was like ninety eight percent. Wow, something like that, you know, and so violence if you were from a different race. I can't speak to that experience because I didn't grow up with that. But but mostly what I encountered was sectarian violence based on religion.

Wow.

So it was Catholics and Protestants absolutely absolutely, and it was it. It feels to me that sometimes humans, when they've got nothing else to do, they pick a side.

It's always a free time issue, right yeah, Because I think about the you know, the term Karens, like all the all the white women that are apparently deputized to stop black people from living. They don't have any real problems, they don't have any real problems, they don't have any real issues. And that's why they're looking out their window,

You are as a person clearly right now, and I know this about you anyway. You are concerned with civic Absolutely. Do you think there is a world in which you run for office?

Oh, Craig, you know it's funny. Before twenty sixteen, I would have said absolutely not, because I thought you had to be smarter, better, all of those things. I mean Now, after Donald Trump alone, after Donald Trump and all the nonsense going on in Congress right now, and McCarthy and Matt Gates, I'm seeing so many people that are making decisions for all of us that are not decent human beings.

Should I think you should. Now here's here's why I think you should. Here's why because I sense your reluctance. Yes, and that to me is a qualifying mark for a politician. If you're reluctant to run for office, right yeah, and you probably and also you care, I do you know? And if you care, but you're reluctant to get in the fight. But you can't see anyway again, Now, the fact that's the hero's journey right there, that's like you know, that's that's Joseph Campbell right there.

That's why you've been the call to.

Action to action.

Yeah, I'm and I'm here right now to say I'm one of the gatekeepers. I'm one of the I'm one of the you know, the information givers.

Yes, and I'm saying I think it might be time.

It might be I you know, I'm at a crossroads in my life. I just just I'm in my fifties now.

And first of all, I don't believe that I am fifty two years old, just fifty moisturized.

I believe in hydration, I guess, thank you any but yeah, so I'm at the age where you're starting to go, okay, well, I'll probably have more runway behind me than in front of me, and so you start to look at what's the right So what do I want to do? Like,

Somebody, but then somebody is.

They don't care if they're hurting people, they don't care if they're lying to people. And we noticed that in what happened, you know, recently with the Congress. You know, McCarthy wanted to get in because he wanted to be speaker. He didn't want to be speaker because he wanted to do good. He didn't want to be speaker so that he could change people's lives to the better. He wanted to be speaker because of the clout and the power that would come from him being second in the line of succession.

Do you think that he wanted those things when he started as a young and.

You know, I would like to hold but.

He has fallen so far from what I think decency is that I have to believe that he didn't, that he was never on the path to be a decent person, because in my mind, even if you start, if you started out decent and he had fallen on the wayside, as soon as you get that gavel and you realize the weight of it. If the President and vice president pass away, I'm in charge of this entire country, and I can show how I will govern based on how I handle these four hundred people that I'm the leader

Look, just to play Devil's advocate, because we're not talking about an individual, Yes, I have a lot of time for but let me be the other site to do it and say that, isn't everyone in that world a liar? Isn't everyone in that world super ambitious?

Everyone?

I mean, it seems to me a lot of people have made promises that they didn't keep on both sides.

Of the hut.

Yeah.

I got to say this though, And to be fair, politics is difficult and there are a lot of things that you run on that you want to do right. Like people are upset with Joe Biden because he had all these things he wanted to do that he couldn't get through. They're forgetting that how civics were the Congress has the power of the purse, which means they get to decide what becomes a bill, and then the Senate

Well, here's what.

I would say to you, and then I'm going to move you gently away from from politics.

You got us here.

No, no, I know, and I genuinely want to hear about it. But if you promise something that you know that you cant one hundred percent deliver, should you fast to that while you make the promise?

Absolutely, But I don't know that the ones that aren't delivering. I don't believe I guess I don't believe that the statement that all of them are duplicitous. I don't believe that they're going in going What can I say?

You're right? I think you're right. Yeah, I think.

Things happen, and I think sometimes you have to make good with one person to try to get further down the road on something else that matters. So I think there's a lot of that going on to it. I don't think it's black and white, but I think there's a difference between choosing to be a horrible person, choosing power over people, and then having to make decisions to make greater change later.

I like the idea of you can be a good person or a horrible person, but I think it seems to me as I observe, you know, inaccurately. I'm sure a lot of the time the human race that very few people will admit to be in the villain of their own story. So if someone is a horrible person, like you'll always find someone that.

Will back you up. Like Hitler had a girlfriend, he did, you know.

I mean, it's like it's not not that's you know, there's always someone that will say now you're right, or do you lose sight of things like if if somebody, if you find yourself in an ethical dilemma.

Let let's say it's it's twenty thirty.

Four, Benicle Brown and Speaker of the House, the president and the Vice president sadly get a terrible dose of the Trots off and now you're president of the United States. He died from the trucks truts. Yeah it's the Trotsky Trust. Yeah they got they got very very bad pooperia. They go pooperia.

Uh.

And I think I think there may be an old law that you're not allowed to talk about the president, you.

Know, dying.

Is it really Are we in trouble right now?

Well?

No, because it's a hypothetical president in the future. We said pooperia of the Trots. We did, so it's not like we're that's right, right. But anyway, anyway, I don't think.

We're in trouble. But what I'm saying, I'm not you said someone saying you right.

So now you're the president of the United States. Now you can do some things and you can't do other things. And the country is a similar state. That's what do you choose? What is your first option. What do you think this is the first thing we've got to get done right now.

First thing we would have to get done is vot voting rights.

Yeah, and.

Probably the second thing, no matter how I got in office, I would get rid of the electoral college. I think one vote. Everybody should get one vote, and your vote should the person who gets the most votes should be president, period. And then that takes away all the shenanigans you Then you have to campaign in every state. You can't just pick the three or four of that. And I think everyone should get to meet you and kick the tires and find out what you're really about.

So those are two things.

I don't think that there's any really I mean, I think that's a rational thing, right, But let's let's look at democracy a little bit, because it's brutal.

Let's do it.

Democracy is a very brutal system.

It is, you know, if it is the majority want a thing, and if that thing is hateful and the majority want it, then democracy wants a hateful thing. Is not inherently there's no inherent goodness to it. I mean, it's better than anything else we have light a run, but it's not feel proof.

Well, Listen, There's been a few times in my life as a voter that the person I wanted to win did not win. It sucks, but I accepted it. So it's not so much that you have to get everything you want every time. You just want a shot at

Absolutely no.

But there's some people that are like, if I don't have kids, why am I voting for a better schools? I don't have kids. You see what I'm saying. There are a lot of people that vote that way. So it's like, you have to think of the greater good of other people.

Yeah.

I remember having a discussion with a family member by that. I said I shouldn't have to pay for their you know, I can't remember what it was.

And I was like, no, no, no, you do have any different. That's that's the deal.

The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascals Stand Up To continues throughout the United States in twenty twenty four. For a full list of dates and tickets, go to the Craig Ferguson Show dot com slash tour se you have that, I know, are you religious person?

I am person faith.

You're a Christian Christian. So if you're a Christian and many people, a lot of people profess to.

Be Christians and are not following christ I talk.

I think that that, Well, that's that's your thing, you know, that's the whole thing I'm interested by the way Christianity. I've I've been looking at it a lot because I'm not my person of faith. No, I'm a person of doubt, which is almost a passion.

That's kind of the same thing it really is, because faith is about seeing believing things that you can't see. And also God doesn't have a problem with you doubting. Like there's moments in the in the Bible where it's like people are saying, Lord, please show me, Please make it plain to me. So the fact he knows this is difficult things to grasp. Man, something in the sky made everything, and you know it's it's hard to grasp. I just look at my life and know how miraculous

I think that's fine.

I know I've glad to find myself at the point in my life where I don't have to challenge anyone believe same right.

But what I am in, I am interested though in what you believe? Does it for?

Are you a person of a recognized church? Is there? Are you a Catholic? Are you a Baptist?

But are Baptist? But I'll say this, when I was younger, like in my twenties and thirties, I was there every time the church open every day with what we're doing today, and I've gotten to a point now where it's more of a spiritual journey than a religious journey for me. So it's not so much.

About I find the difference.

Spirituality is having in your own relationship with God or with Jesus for me, in God and Jesus for me, and religion is more about go to church on Sunday. You have to do this, you have to worry.

It's more.

It's tradition, it's more, and a lot of the stuff that churches do is not in the Bible, you know, Jesus said we're two or three are gathered. I'm there also, we are the church. The fact that we're having a conversation about him right now, Church is happening right here. So this idea that we have to be in a specific building to I don't know that I believe in that anymore. Now. I'm not against going to church. I'm not against having the gathering of saints and getting a

It's not money. It's fine just if you love it absolutely.

It's the love. And also speaking of that, a lot of Christians who say there are Christians don't love. If you look at a lot of the evangelicals that are following Donald Trump, and Maga and all that they hate everybody. They hate everybody and everything.

Westboro Baptists speaker, How.

Can you say you're following Christ and you hate people.

It's a tricky one.

I don't know how you kind of work it out, but my guess is that it's probably to do with the lack of understanding of what's the teachings of Christ?

Was ye are?

I should say?

I became fascinated with Christianity in the journal Lockdown, I think, m M.

And I started reading you ever read any C. S Lewis?

Yes?

I started reading C. S. Lewis and C.

S Lewis, why what is it what Christians believe? And then I read Bertrand Russell's counteraction to that, which is why I'm not a Christian? And I was like, it's not a great argument, Bertrand, I mean, you're a very clever man, principal Mathema, very clever, but I'm not sure that I'm And then from C. S. Lewis, I went in a GK. Chursterton Have you been there?

Yeah?

That GK. Chstone is kind of like the velvet underground for C. S.

Lewis.

So, I mean, they're fascinating Christian apologists, and so I thought, I just I just started reading about it, and it led me into pre Roman church Christianity, which have now become fascinated, which is obviously up until the three hundred years before Rome adopted Christianity. And what I think about it now is that Rome adopting Christianity is kind of like Starbucks opening a store at burning Man, Like it changed the face everything. Because the Romans thought that the

Let me tell you something. I found my way down a YouTube rabbit hole. Oh gosh. And you know, I finally get the algorithm because when I first got on YouTube, I was picking what I wanted to see. And then one day I woke up and realized that I hadn't picked in hours. That YouTube was just and it wasn't even like the same person, Like the third video from the same person. They were like, oh, you like her, Okay, let me show you him. Oh you like him, okay,

How you protect yourself from it?

Now, you know, I'm realizing what it is like, I'm realizing that this is entertainment. Yeah, and these people, I think somebody they think that when you see the sher microphone in front of someone and ring light and they have theme music. Now, these little talkers, they have their own theme music influence, right, And you see it and it looks like a television show. And back when I was a kid, you had to have some substance to have a television show. You had to know what you

I think I think of it as well as a little bit like when people get themselves into trouble by saying something ill advised, perhaps perhaps clumsily thinking they're funny. Sometimes, I don't know if you've ever noticed this, Sometimes people think they're funny, and they're all funny.

Everybody thinks they everybody thinks they're funny.

It's the craziest thing.

Yeah, they're laughing at their own job.

I know. It's a thing.

But when somebody gets into trouble, I think you see now, this is why you have a producer.

Yep.

Did you ever meet Peter la Sally who was He was my producer at the Late Night Show.

I had to them, said, but Peter was. Peter was an extraordinary story.

He was an older gentleman and he was captured by the Nazis with German jew He was in the concentration camps he managed to have he was in the same class as Anne Frank.

Oh my god.

I mean like a horrendous story. But his family made it to the United States and he got into show business eventually through a series of adventures in America. Being America, he becomes Johnny Carson's producer for thirty five years Tonight Show, and then you know, his career goes in the dol drums and he has to produce me.

I will not allow it. I will not allow it.

Now, Peter is it was was a fabulous The point is he understood the talk and Late Night was was the beginning of YouTube. I think you know that kind of talking directly, Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean, yeah yeah. And he would say to me sometimes out of a joke, and because you know you're bullishing in your commedian thing, I'm going to do the.

Joke, Pete. And you go, really cause we get it tomorrow. Yeah, and don't do it. It's another joke. Yeah, it's not that great a joke. And this is how long ago it was.

He would say, Look, just don't say anything that make the people that Pete get mad.

You don't want that dog, you don't want it.

Do you have animals?

I do have a dog, Yes I do. I just had a moment when you were talking where I was. I got a little misty that we didn't find each other earlier, because I'm sad that I only got to do your show that one time, Like we've done a thousand different things since then, but once because I couldn't get arrested in late night and I'm really good on late night, so I couldn't figure out why. Yeah, and it was and I don't even know. I think I got your show from a cancel it. I don't think

Wow.

Yeah, you know because it shows you a perception of memory. Because if something had said to me, who were you know, you know, give me a list of people who were regular guests, You've definitely be.

I would have been had I gotten I know that I would have been if I would have gotten on. Yeah, one time, I had one time with you. My man did CELEBN game like fifty times, but our show, your show was only once.

Do you still watch the game shows? Do you still do that?

I do.

I've been You've going a little more seriously growing up.

My mood has been a little dour the less a few years. Yeah, it's like I think I think I'm an adult now and I think I'm fully grasping how serious all this stuff is. I hope that I haven't lost my joy.

Yeah that's good still, and you still got the show businesslip I die.

I do, So I haven't lost my joy. But I feel like I'm supposed to sound the alarm, and I've been sounding the alarm for the last.

Eight I think also you are.

It's very this doesn't this is not you different when I first met you.

I don't. I don't feel like you've dropped anything.

I think that you're as the as the Pecoq watchers say you're you're approaching your final form, you know what I mean, you know absolutely, And I think that I think that that that's all right. I mean people used to talk about it that people say so much stick to comedy, and you go, well, now, really.

I don't.

I don't do politics in my stand up. But that's a stylistic choice, right.

You know, you're very politically aware like you always have been.

That I know what's going on, but I have my position on it is slightly different, and it is actually, if we're being honest, I think it's to do with a sense of being a person of faith or a person of doubt, or a person of trying to find out what I meant to be doing right?

What what am I here for? What about? What's my purpose? What's my job? What have I got to do? Right?

And I feel like when I was younger, I thought it was for something very noble, and uh, maybe they would carve statues. But now I'm beginning to think your job is to give people a break.

That's your job.

Craig also noble, Yeah, but in.

A slightly different way.

So my job for the like, if I'm doing ninety minutes on stage the stand up, my job is for ninety minutes, you laugh and you forget all about it, and then when you leave all of that stuff your mouth about, it's right.

You pick it up the it's right there, absolutely, And.

I think that there's there's there's a certain growth of that sort of thought. It's not that it's bad, but I wonder because I think, see, politics is always I've always thought this is not the case with you, yes, but politics have thought. This is where people go sometimes when they want to appear smarter than they are, because if you pick a side, then you immediately have a bunch of people who are we can agree with you, right, And so we're like, yeah, he's talking sense, is he though?

That happens. Oh do you do?

You say?

Sixty one?

Your baby, sweet, sweet little baby.

The only place have a baby is maybe a couple of retirement communities in Florida and some Buddhist temples of Nepal.

I might be the kid other than that.

But the thing is is I look at the the changing manners of people in our business like you can't say the ones you got. And some of it is admirable, some of it's correct. Somebody is that correction and some of us think are we losing naughtiness?

We are? And this is that necessary?

Though?

Is that is that? Okay?

I don't.

I don't think it's I don't think it's necessary to lose naughtiess I think naughtiness. I think losing naughtiness is as detrimental as losing shame, okay, And we lost shame around the same time we lost naughtiness. And there's one thing to be naughty with a twinkle in your eye and the understanding that you know you're tip toeing right up to the edge, but you're not tiptoeing up there to harm anybody. So it's all silliness and it's fun.

About, it's that, right, it's.

That little twinkle. And I think people have course corrected to the point where they believe that if you're naughty, you're dark, and I don't. I mean, there's probably some that are, but I don't think those that were choosing that for their comedy we're doing it for that reason. Going back to the shame thing, I feel like in this idea of telling people you shouldn't feel bad about anything, we've thrown the baby out with the bathroom. There are

Bad about that. It's shameful.

So yeah, so this idea when I need to be free, no no, no, not. Your freedom should not impend on cover somebody else's ability to be free. Your search for love should not take love from someone else. There's things that do what you need to do for you, but you should do no harm in doing what you need to do for yourself. I believe it is, but it's also it's also I think it's every faiths. It should be a part of every faith. You should walk out your door going. I don't want to hurt nobody today.

Yeah, you gotta get past that.

No, No, I don't know.

I'm kidding.

I feel though that I'm refreshed to hear I find it refreshing. I'm not refreshed. I fight it refreshing. I'm slightly refreshed here. I'm slightly refreshed, freshed. I find it refreshing that you say that we need a little more shame. We do because I agree, I think that you know, you shouldn't be ashamed of yourself. Well you should be ashamed of yourself for that, right, But but.

But you did absolutely that was bad.

Absolutely, And I think that what I'm fascinated by when I was talking to you about the early Christians, pre pre Christian, pre Roman Christianity, that there was a theologian, a gentleman by the name of Evagrius, from a town called Pontus, which I think was in northern Turkey. It's not really important where it was for the extent the story, and he came up with the idea of the eight thoughts, eight thoughts which take the forms of demons which separate you from God.

What are they?

They are? You recognize them?

Envy, sloth, lost, all that average, all that stuff. And they became, of course later on the seven Deadly signs in the in the church, and they eight went to seven because they put sadness, which was one of the eight thoughts, was folded into sloth.

Well, if you said you are just laying around.

But also I think there's a little bit of a hint about self pity in there as well.

There's self pity.

I got to tell you, when I let myself down, it's always self pity.

Right, it's not always self pity.

But recently, like recently, sometimes I just so hungry, I gotta cry. But but the idea of the demons and the thoughts, the early Christians when they were thinking about that, they didn't think of these things in moral terms. They think about, these are things that will separate you from God, from God, from the universe. And it was only in later in the medieval Church that it became a moral kind of you are naughty and bad if you have these things.

It's like, no, this is just something that's separating you from something that's pretty great. Yeah, you know, and actually the reason why you're here.

But you know what, the deepest thing about Christianity for me in the way and people that I feel are doing it wrong. It's funny I said that as I'm about to say what I'm about to say, Eve, We're not supposed to judge people, you know, Christ made it very clear. God made it clear that we're ill equipped to decide who's getting it right and who's getting it wrong.

Okay, so let's let's talk a little bit of it working on So let because you are self professed the person of faith, what does that look like for you? Tell me if I'm getting too personal, what does it look like for you when not faith is tested? Can you give me an example when you say I don't see how this person being sick or this this thing happened in my life, or this disappointed for me, how can that?

Well, it always hits me when someone wonderful passes away and someone that really has no desire to help anyone just thrives and they're around the same age, you know. Or I'll see people and I'm not ambitious in the industry at all, So I don't mean this like I'm not harmed up.

What more you need?

And you have our Senial Holes Hall named after you and know our Cenial Hall.

What I'm saying, though, is I if I see someone that I know is not kind and has not ever, in my opinion, tried to think of other people rise, keep have like a meteorc rise. In this industry, I'm always like, Oh, their platform is going to get so big and they have nothing. They're not using it to help anybody. It's just look at my lip gloss, look at my dress. It's it's so part of me feels like that. It's like that doesn't feel fair to me.

I think fame is the nature of famous very different than it was even ten years ago.

Do you think?

Yes? I do.

I think that certainly, maybe not ten years, but certainly when I was a kid, which is I'm afraid a lot further ago than ten years, being famous was something that I wanted because I felt it would remove for me the difficulties of my life. It would make me feel special, and it would it would, you know.

The honest truth is I thought I wouldn't have to go to the dentist. When I was a kid.

I thought if I'm famous now, what I didn't know is I'd end up in Hollywood, which you know, you, yeah, you're going to the dentist nearly every day, absolutely, especially if you arrived from Scotland.

Absolutely, Okay, first thing it will be done. But we're going to do about a couple of years in the dentist. But I thought it would, it would separate.

Me and make me special. And I think it does, or it used to, and I don't think it does.

What do you think it does now?

I think it exposes you, and I think it makes you vulnerable to your mistakes. And what I'm mean by that is when I was a kid, when I was in my twenties, I drank too.

I drank a lot.

I got myself in a lot of trouble with alcohol, and I you know, I got into fights and I behaved like an idiot and I fell down, and I made a film myself and I peed in my pants. There's no footage of that right, you know, well maybe after this because maybe.

I just had a mental.

Yeah, there's no actual footage of me doing that, right and with the kids. Now, like when you talked to earlier about the Karens I saw. I saw one recently as a drunk woman on a train just yelling at these German students.

Did you see this one?

No, it's a you know, it's kind of interesting for our purpose because it contains racism, but not black white racism. It's a drunk women, white women on a train yelling at some German students because they're speaking a different you know, and she's yelling go back to your own country and all of the usual friends and all that stuff. Thought, Yeah, that's horrible what you're doing. But she's drunk of her ass and she should learn a lesson from it.

But you don't believe in vino veritas.

No, I don't really. I don't believe in that because I've said a lot of shit when I was drinking that wasn't true. I don't think in veno veritas is true at all. In wine truth, I don't think it's true.

I think I think.

For some people it may be true, but for people like me, alcoholics. When I start drinking, I'm not home. It ain't mean now I have to deal with behavior. They call them spirits and the demon drink, and I think that, you know, when I start drinking, the drink starts drinking and then the lights are on. But I'm not home, you know, And you know that doesn't mean I'm not responsible for the actions that I take. I'm not saying that, But what I'm saying is it's just

Well, you know you open my eyes to that because I have always believed that. But I also believe you. And so if you're saying that that's not true all the time, then I'm now going to think about it in a different way, because that does make sense. If someone is blacking out, and if it is something else taking over, then that thing, whatever that thing is, is saying whatever it. You know, it's an ind type moment at that moment, it might not even be youeriods.

But now, what I'm also saying is in part of the way that I lived my life since I got sober when I was twenty nine, was that it doesn't matter, You're still responsible.

And I had to go back and clear up.

All the mess that i'd mad and you know that was it doesn't absolve me for you, but it explained it to me a little bit because I was thinking, you know, when you get in a fight with your friend that you adore, you know, and you guys end up in a fight because you're drunk, that why would I want.

To be keep doing that? I keep doing that?

What is it in me that that happened? And what it was in me was alcohol.

But I think that, you know, I became quite pious when I got sober for a while, and you know, I said that. So I was talking to a very good friend of mine's still a good friend of mine, who would also go sober some years before me. And I said to him, I said, you know, I think alcoholism is a low level search for God. And he said, I don't know about that, he said, but he said, in your case, i'd stick with a low level.

But I like him, did you ever run into trouble with anything like that?

Did you ever find yourself on a set of behaviors when you thought, what's going on with me?

Why am I doing this?

You know, probably food for me because I ate myself in the diabetes.

So that's a legitimate demon.

It's a good one. Yeah, I think it's a horrible one, not so good one, but yeah. So I think that I never dabbled in alcohol and drugs because my grandmother was an alcoholic and she died of that, and so I often heard that it was genetic, and I was like, well, I got a predisposition so much so that when I was in seventh grade, my neighbor, I remember, they used to put the free cigarette things in the in the magazine you can take the rip it out of over.

I think that that's that's good.

But I'm going to steer you back to the food because coming back because that because that's the one that bit you.

Yeah, And I understand that I have.

I behave sometimes run food, this is true, but me I hate behave sometimes earn food.

I think, what are you doing?

What are you doing?

Why are you like I'll tell you today, I just ho tolon because I'm in a hotel and there.

And it's there, and it's there.

I never buy a tol.

No, but it's there, it's right there in the room.

Yeah. But there's also there's bottles of hooch in the mini bar. I'm not tempted to go.

But I don't think that the toblone has has the stigma in the history.

It doesn't have the power. I've got a little bit of shame of it was tequila.

There.

Yeah, but I think that how did you or have you found a way to be at peace with that or.

I mean that's the dangerous one too. I think because you can't stop eating. You can stop drinking, you can stop doing cocher, whatever your thing is, but you can't stop eating.

You have to.

It's a it's an addiction that you have that you have to always continue to do or you die. So I think for me, I had to. I went got into therapy because the question is why are you doing whatever the addictive behavior is, why if you're sex, addic, alcohol, whatever, Why what is going on in your life or inside of you that you are.

Used to behaving in a way that's apparent exactly.

And so I got into therapy and just realized that I was like I had low level sadness, Like I was just sad and bored or whatever, and you yeah, yeah, and it's like, well, I can fill this space with something instead of picking up a book, calling a friend, taking a walk. It was a donuts, you know. And so what scared me straight was my diagnosis. When I got diagnosed with diabetes, and I just I was like, I don't want to be sickly, you know, I don't. I'm not an athlete. I'm not like in the gym,

Did you think when COVID committed you think I'm going to die?

Absolutely? I'm like, it's absolute gonna get me.

I'm going to die this.

Oh yeah, I was totally.

You obviously got it right, I got it once. Yeah, I got it. I have had a twice.

Yeah, I'm a bit of a germophobe. Anyway. So I already was wearing masks on planes because I had just booked a kids show and was flying back and forth from New York doing this kids show, and I knew kids were Petri dishes. So I was like, I need to wear a mask to protect myself from these babies who could have lord knows what. And that was in October of twenty nineteen. So I came back to LA from New York and the world blew up. But I already had masks, so I was already in that mindset

I'm kind of a bit like that.

Yeah, I mean I washed my hands when I get home, you know, I mean like they haven't been anywhere.

Things we probably should have been doing anyway, though, Like when you think about, what I think about now is how many times I walk through sneezes And you know you don't you don't want to, but if you're on a plane and a person next to you sneezes, I didn't used to cover myself or I would just be like, okay, the person sneeze. But now I'm like get droplets, you know, Like I like literally thinking about what I.

Get like that too. I get when I hear someone coughing. But it's funny enough. It's always in an airport plane.

I'm like, oh god, damn, I can just stay home. You know.

It just makes me take my mask and like pinch the nose a little tighter. Yeah, a little more.

It's funny. I people go even mad at that, I know. I was like, I don't at that.

Yeah, but I think also going back to how we've lost ourselves in the last eight years, in particular, you wear the mask. When they said that you wear the mask to protect others, I was like, this is the perfect reason to say it, like because I'm thinking everybody wants to make sure that they don't harm other people. So of course you say and that was the reason people didn't wear it. They were like, oh, well, if I'm fine, I don't have to watch. I don't know them,

How do we inject more decency into society?

Gosh, I don't know, sat.

You know, I don't know, like I kind of feel like, and I hate to say this because this is like defeatists, but I feel like you either come here with a heart for people or you don't. I think it's you can because I remember one time I was no, no, no. I mean there may be redemption, but I'm saying it's like a muscle. I think if you don't come here

Think I can almost name this, you know, I was like, what do you mean?

You don't know how? Like to me, it just seems like air to breathe. You just put other people's needs ahead of your own. And then if you if I put your needs ahead of you and you put my needs ahead of me of you, we're both taking care of It's the same way in a love relationship. If I love you with all I have and you love me with all you have, we're both okay. The problem is when I love you with all I have, and you also love you with all you have. Then I'm left.

I think.

You know what I mean.

You know, when I talk to my children and when I talk to myself, because insite me as a self pity, I'll be a little boy. So let's not make it about your kids, Craig. Let's tell the truth. What I do is self pity is a real legitimate demon, I think. And what I try and do is find a way to be of service, like you're talking about, for another human being. I'm lucky because the way I you know, as a sober alcoholic, there was an obvious way for me to go, which is, you know, find a drunk

Absolutely absolutely. It takes your mind off and it gives you perspective.

That's the word I was going to do. It gives you a perspective.

So you know, if I'm talking to someone who suffers from the same condition I have, who's just come in the door. Like so, for example, when I when you arrive into sobriety.

And the way that the idea, you know that you get arrows.

In your hat and it's like, you know, you're all like burnt and stuff like that, and you know, time goes by, you get a nice suit, you comb your hair, you get a haircut that clears up, and you kind of forget a little bit. So if you spend time around the people that are still got arrows in their hats, that you know, it's a good sense of a good reminder of what's available to you if you want.

To go back the way.

Yeah, so we're coming to the end of this now, So no, well, the end of this episode, this is a this will we go down? Is this episode will be the last one you're dead before you ran.

Now, I do know one of the senators. Hi, you do which one shared?

Yes?

Now shared. He's a nice man. He's uh, he's a career politician. He's been there for a long time. Now, who's the other guys? Who's the other center in Ohio?

The guy that just it's not it's not Vance now Vance.

Is not anyway. What I'm saying is this, you know Sharon Brown.

I don't know him personally, know well, his name is Brown, Yes, and your name is Brian. It is. And I like Sharon and he's got a sense of humor and you'd get a kick out of I think the two you represent the great state of Ohio and in the Senate, I think that's waits.

One have to have to leave LA, have to go back to Ohio.

I think you should have to run. Yeah, I think you have to. You can keep a place here and pay California Texas. But but I think you should you should think. But I mean, look, the LA always be the event Nicole Brown Building.

Here in Hollywood.

People are literally going to start looking for this building. It does not exist.

It's in cosmos. Event Brown Building. I adore you. I'm always fascinated by our discussions because they always end up going somewhere.

And then I know it's I never even plan what I'm going to say when I come to see you where, you know, because I think I've done every iteration of this that you've done since your job. I don't even plan. I just I just go, I'm going to talk to my buddy. Yeah, talk to my buddy.

For We're gonna shoot the Yeah, shoot the poop, the poop.

I was I was gonna say shoot the and then I was like, no, I don't because you're a Baptist.

I don't like this.

I said those words.

Yeah, but you know, but I you know, when you somebody says they're a Baptist, I feel like I shouldn't swear.

Them from Oh that's I mean, you can listen.

I've got highly developed I.

Feel like the Lord would strike me down. If I said, how dare you cuss? He'd be like even.

Really really, I think the and the Lord is going to be striking people down. He's got a long list of people he's got to gains.

The youth forcussion, absolutely, I love you, I love you

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