Wendie Malick

The Fancy Rascal Tour is just me, Craig Ferguson. I'm the only performer. There's no opener. How are you going to do that, Craig, Well, I'll suck for the first twenty minutes and charge myself a grant so we get the full effect. Anyway, this weekend I'm hitting the following places. Northampton, Massachusetts, Foxwood's Casino in Connecticut, Boston, Massachusetts. Two shows at the

My name is Craig Ferguson. This podcast is called Joy. It's not Rocket Science. I talk to people I like about their pursuit of happiness. Here's Wendy Malick, a beloved American actress who, amongst other things, is the voice of O Jack Horsefleso.

She's one of my classier friends. Enjoy.

Hey, I haven't seen you since I was the Owl House on the Disney Channel.

Or did you catch it before it ended? Did it end sadly? Yes, it was canceled. I think Disney got nervous because we had a girl kissing a girl on that show.

That's some of my favorite stuff is girl.

Why did they not want that because Disney could use that, could they?

Well? I think Disney could could branch out a little more.

As you are, are they making any money?

I think they've lost money recently, have they really?

I think they could probably lose a little bit and be okay. I was just talking to someone of that this morning. Like, you're famously immensely wealthy, right, I don't have a castle? Well, the castle I live in, to be fair, it.

Needs to be totally replumbed.

Well no, well yeah they do. But also you know you couldn't get an apartment in New York.

For the price of my castle.

Well that's true.

Yeah, so it's not.

A lot of space there in Scotland.

Yeah, I like a lot of like very people. You live in a land, though, how many how much land do you have?

Your fifty acres?

That's plenty, that's fine.

It's a lot for here, although it's almost entirely unusable, very very steep up and down?

Is it fiery? Do you get fires near your house?

Is it fiery? It's it's vulnerable to fires? Yeah, because we abut the state park. Okay, so we have a lot of fuel out there, and our nearest neighbor is a quarter mile away.

So yeah, have you been affected by the fires.

Of course, I think everybody here is. And you've got horses too, do I make Do you have a horse transport? Thing have a horse? We have a two horse trailer, which doesn't do you much good if you have four horses and a donkey.

Now do you have four horses and a donkey? Or three horses?

Now we have three? I forgot okay.

Because I thought, wait a minute, you told me.

We have three and a half animals. And you've always been a horsey person. No, No, I mean I lived in New York for seventeen years before I moved here, and as a kid, I did those trail rides where the only time you go fast is when you're on the way back to the bar. Yeah, they're barely a person in front of you.

It's kind of in the Hollywood Hills.

Oh my god.

So when you see people you walk up the hills, you see people in the bike, they're just like that.

You can dress it up, but you can't teach him how to ride. No. I didn't start until I was forty when I moved to to Panga.

I think that.

First of all, I'm surprised to hear that you're over forty, and also.

Yeah, I'm older than you are. No, you have to show me some respect.

Really, are you? You know me? I'm not going to ask you, but you're nobody thinks.

So, I think so. No, I am definitely in my third act, well into my third act.

Do you worry about it?

What are you going to do?

Well?

I know, but I but worry is something that you do you even if you there is nothing to do, like.

I That's why I keep busy, so I don't have time to, like, you know, worry too much.

You do like you go out and clean the horses and stuff.

That's part of it.

Yeah, my wife does that.

Well. I hate to meet your wife.

Yeah you do.

I think that shoveling ship is a very relaxing zen exercise.

Yeah, I've never found it particularly appealing whenever I've had to do it.

Do you have dogs as well? Yes?

What kind of dogs?

Now?

We have a shepherd. I think she's a what does she called the melt malono? Yeah, yeah, Melani. She's a rescue but she's like a greyhound shepherd mixed. She's really fast, has a long, thin tail, really long legs. Yeah, kind of like you, A little bit kind of like me. Actually, we do look alike a picture later.

Normally, I mean, I would never say you wear a melon.

Wow. But if I had the long face, yeah I was. If I was, you know, looking for a voice of a Malon, wir would be me and a cartoon I was doing, I'd be like, I wonder if Wendy's available, because she's got totally doing I think I should. Yeah, So have you been doing a lot of that cartoon voicey stuff? Yeah? Did you have very a very sexy voice? Yeah, I do, Yeah, you do right now.

Sexy voice. It's it's low.

Actually. Lauras Sandracomo years ago said, did you ever do you know voiceovers or do cartoons stuff like that? And and I thought, you know, I did some commercials when I was starting out in New York and figured, well, I don't have to do those anymore. I think I'm going to bag it. And she said, no, you really should. They're really kind of fun. And I got this great Cadillac commercial right out of the box and started doing animated stuff and I love it. I love to just

When they call it walla when you have to go.

I don't really to bring people in to do your own. No, I don't. But some of them are way more fun than others. I mean, for me, BoJack Horse and I played his mother. I know that.

To me, that's the greatest animated series.

I think it's so brilliant and the art direction is so insanely good, and you can watch them three or four times and see new stuff. It's so densely animated and gorgeous and funny and heartbreaking. And they gave me this amazing thing to do in the last season where you found out why I was such a witch.

Yeah, you were evil. You were an evil character.

And I had a horrible childhood.

Yeah, and you personally didn't have a horrible.

No, I had a really good one. Yeah.

That's weird that you would become a performer and a successful performer and have a happy childhood. I don't think that's common.

Betty White did. Yeah, that's true.

But when Betty, I mean Betty who we both knew and loved.

But when Betty was a child, you know, it was a different time. There were like they'd just come up with a wheel.

They just they just came up with television, that's for sure. Well they actually hadn't, because I remember right, and she was doing radio still in theater before TV predated television. That's true.

I met because I was so sad.

Well, obviously when Betty passed, it was very sad.

But she loved you too, Oh, I ado order.

You know, she was the first person I worked with when I came to Hollywood.

You're kidding.

Yeah, she had just come off the Golden Palace, which was the one after.

The Golden Girls.

God I missed that.

Yeah, it wasn't the was the worst thing she did, because the worst thing she did was the one she did after the Golden Palace.

Yeah.

It was a show called Maybe This Time Maybe it was Me, Betty White, Marie Osmond.

Oh my, yeah, but you know.

What, you know, in my wildest dreams, I can't imagine that cast.

You know. Actually, both of those women, I loved them both and I still do. They were both great to me. They were both fabulous. Marie had some personal stuff that I don't connect to in the same way religiony wise, but religion, Yeah, religion. It's very earthy, kind of like funny person. And Betty, of course is that's forcing it. How long did you guys do Hot in Cleveland?

I think it was six years.

God, that was a great show to do.

It was such a gift and so utterly unexpected. Yeah, you know, for well, you realize you look around in how many series are anchored by women over fifty? Yeah, I guess, and we were like fifty sixty ninety Yeah, so pretty crazy.

It was the best smelling set I've ever been out of my life.

There was that kind of when you.

Like there was lavender near Betty and then there was the more exotic perfumes.

It was you in Valerie Dan.

Mine was Egyptian must oh.

I know you are Egyptian, right, or you are Egyptian heritage a quarter that I think that's fascinating.

Have you been to Egypt? No? And I was invited by my grandfather, but he was a Pentecostal minister and way too strict, so I didn't go with him, right, But I do need to. I've been to Africa many times. But never to Egypt. I'd like to go to Perhaps we could go together, maybe we'll go.

Well, Megan is the name of the women I'm married to, so I've heard right. So Meghan and I were talking about maybe doing a Nile cruise.

I know, I think that would be really fascinating.

Does this fact you go down then Isle and you kind of see the pyramids and stuff, but you're still on your own.

Little bit can touch you or talk to you.

Yeah, I see, exact quite like that. I'm not good at mixing. I.

Craig Ferguson will be hitting the road again this summer and fall, bringing the Fancy Rascal Tour to your region. For tickets and full list of tour dates, go to my website, the Craig Ferguson Show dot com slash tour.

Come see me live or don't so listen. You started out in Buffalo, is that right? You're from Buffalo, which is almost Canadian? Are you okay with that?

Yep?

Right?

Okay? Oh yeah? Did you go up to Canada every summer? Were you? Summer? We had a summer house on Lake Erie.

See, so you were well Ontario?

You're well, no, no, no, I grew up in a very middle class family my grandparents. My grandfather did quite well and was able to retire early.

And they built this is the Pentecostal No, no, no, this is the fun.

One, right. He had a hotel and restaurants, okay, And they built that house the year I was born on the beach and it was three sides of it were a Carolinian forest and the front was was just sand dunes going down to this beautiful beach and the water was right there. And uh, do you have siblings, Yeah, a brother and a sister.

So you guys were just swallows and amazons around.

Oh, you could just you could just be free all day and play. And the woods. My mother always called it a cathedral of trees, and that to this day is kind of my church. Trees.

So you're not a Pentecostal, Coptic Christian or anything.

I'm a nature advocate.

Are you religious?

So no? No, but I would say spiritual.

Yeah, no, I just I rejected all of it for years.

But as I get older, I found myself hedging my bets a little more.

So do you go to church? I built one near the castle.

There was an old building in the place where I live in Scotland and it was derelict and during the lockdown, I did an event to do so I thought, I think that was a church, and I'm going to put it back.

So I went on YouTube and there's.

Very much I'm not religious at all, but I thought, you know, it probably should be a church if there's a if there was an old estate like this.

So I put it back and I you know, pain do you go in and meditate?

And I do.

I'm not churchy, but I like, I don't invite other people in. But I bought church pews from a place that, you know, salvage yard.

Yeah.

The guys that were delivering it said, this isn't a bar. I went no, I said, we've never delivered church pews to a church before. They usually take them out of churches and put them in bars. But I'd bought them and I put them in and it looks just like a little Scottish church.

I go, do you have stained glass windows?

No, we're we're from a different flavor where stained glass windows are.

That's probably a little too.

Yeah, it's a little it's like, yeah, it's a little imagery wise.

I mean they do it in Protestant churches.

They do, and actually I don't, but I will be honest with you. I have ordered some the but just tiny little ones like window pantes. It's not a giant it's a tiny wee building pews.

Like a chapel. Yeah, oh no, I think you don't think of doing that? In you what I do? If I may share it with you, Yes, that's why I'm here. Yeah. Have you ever been to Big Sir? Yes?

I have.

Okay, we we did a retreat there, a tai Chi retreat. You I didn't. I mean I'd had a little training that I didn't really know what I was doing. But a year ago Thanksgiving, we went for a tai chi retreat class thing with this Chinese master and one of the things we did was this morning salutation to the sunrise, and we'd all gather on this cliff and watch the sun and come up behind the mountain. And he taught us just some basic moves of welcoming the day. And

I don't know. I look.

I know that it's not allowed to comment on people's appearance, but yours is spectacular. So you may say that, yeah, well then it is, though I mean, but I.

Mean things like you know, arthritis and you know the I don't have a lot of cartilage, stuff like that. It's just part of the deal.

Well, you because you started out, you were a model. When you started, right you were doing modeling. Were you very self conscious? Because whenever I've talked to Megan, my wife did modeling when she was young as well. And she's still young obviously but always always forever young. Yeah, but she's quite she's very critical of herself.

Are you like that?

I certainly was when I started, because I knew what my good side was. I just was, you know, very self conscious about how to stand, how to move. You know, my smile is crooked, which I'm really aware of. I think there was a time. It's probably during dream On,

Did you feel like? It was an overused word. But the environment for models, I think is very tough. But I don't know what it's like because I'm not a modal and I never have beened. But whenever I talked to male or female people who have done it, it's a very kind of abusive almost environment that people are so mean to do.

Well, and it's you know, there's nothing to back up this. This is kind of what you've got to offer. So no matter how interesting you are talented in other ways, it really is all about your face and your body. And when that's all you have to go on, you can really lose your mind.

I think, yeah, I think, so, did you lose your mind?

When you were doing no, because I never started. I mean I went to New York to act after college and I was making like seventy five dollars a week and having to waitress on the side, right, And someone came up to me in Times Square and asked me if I'd ever modeled, and I, wow, I've done that.

Okay, I think I think someone said that to me once in Times Square and it went very.

Badly, and it was for a different kind of magazine. He said, you should come meet. Well, I mean you I wish I did. And I just took five years because I wanted to travel. I have huge wander lust and I couldn't afford to do it until I became a model. So then I ended up living in Paris for a year and I went all over the world shooting because I got ten in a day because of

Right, So, because I guess model, it's kind of that kind of thing to describe, and then certainly your career is over as a model of.

It I mean, there are models out there that have been doing it for twenty five years and they look amazing.

I think, no, it's a little different. I think you.

I mean you could model. You could do a modeling campaign right now.

Road Hard and put Away No, although that is.

A good name for a brand.

I think road Hard.

You can put them away wet, they'll come out the next.

Day to the great.

So you went back to did you come to LA after that then? Or you used to go back to me?

I went back to New York and was there until well, my ex husband and I we had a place in the village and were there from eighty two to eighty nine, I guess, And we're going back and forth a lot. He's a screenwriter. But then I got a job here and a series, my first one in No Actually it was called Trauma Center Doctor Bridget Blaine.

Oh my god, I waste I see Trauma Center. Is they don't make enough of that kind of thing anymore?

Or maybe the time I had a mask on so it was all about the eyes. Reminded me of all the all the nurses during the pandemic who all got those eyelashes because that's the only thing they had to do in the morning to sort of get ready for the day out. Strange by the way it was after the pandemic. You'd be you'd have worked with people, well you didn't work during the pandemic. That you probably don't know.

Or it was like someone taking their pants off or something like.

It was shocked.

So I saw the full faced, nose, lips, everything. No, it was a revolution, Yeah, no, it was. It was weird how it quickly went. And that's if you wore masks. Some people didn't wear them because they didn't believe.

Do you want to go down that road? You have a lot of touchers. I don't think i've ever seen your arms before.

Well, I used to mask them up when I was on hout in Cleveland.

Because it wasn't appropriate for the housekeeper. Nobody when you're in drag, it wouldn't have worked.

Yeah, I did do some drag working missus. Doubtfire, that's right. I think that would get me in trouble, now, wouldn't it. Or people are angry at drag queens or I'm not a drag queen. But I did my best, and certainly they were drag queens were charming, Thank you.

I did my very best.

I always felt, and I've had to in my life dress up as a lady for various different roles, and whenever I dress up as a lady, I look more like a guy.

It's a very.

Reverse You wouldn't transition.

Well, no, no, it's not for me.

Yeah.

Fabulous hair though, thank you? And so have you ever dre you? I think could maybe did drag queen? Well, I think you could pull off androgeny a little bit. I mean, you're very totally.

I totally do.

Yeah.

I mean I love to wear men suiting and.

Yeah, I think that would be a good look for you. Did you play around with that when you were younger, like they.

Well, my best friend was a boy until I was twelve, Johnny Proseski, and we used to play John and Mary Pioneer family, and we each had little baby guns and stuff from we used to Yeah, wow, we slept out in a ford together and stuff like that.

I was actually going a bit later.

I was thinking in New York, like, but you went to twelve years old with Johnny as a pioneer family.

That's good. Did you guys have children or no?

No, we didn't have a children. It wasn't about the sex. It was all.

About did you have children as a pioneer family.

No? No, no kids. We didn't have time because we were too busy defending our fort oh.

Against imaginary invaders. Okay, I got it. So you came out to La and you started working here, and the dream on was that what was the name of your character in Trauma Center again?

Bridget Blane? Bridget Blane, I see, I proad they know some Bridge of Plaines, Yeah.

A lot of I've had some Bridget Plane jobs over the years as well.

I think it was pretty silly, but it was my first, you know, I think it g gig and I was very excited.

I thought, La, when was this be the eighties.

Ninetees, nineteen ninety, I think nineteen eighty. I think I got that job in eighty four, eighty five something like that, because.

I remember La and I moved here in the mid nineties, and I always thought Ellie was for a town as big as it was kind of like sleepy in an old way. It was quiet, and then certainly people who were working were they all went home at eight.

O'clock at night or it's such an early town. Yeah, yeah, it really is. I mean there's there is a sector of LA that is the clubs and stuff like that.

Yeah, but they're not working.

They're not working too. They don't have to get up the next morning.

They're not going to the set.

But it's not like New York where you can go out to dinner at ten o'clock.

And no, I can't do that now anyway. I get I get acid reflux if Yeah. I sat next to a very attractive women at a wedding about six months ago and we were just chatting and I said, oh, it's so funny, like back of the day, we would have both had drugs as she went yeah, and then she brought acid tablets and I had a tablet we both had. We both had stuff for asid reflux. But you know, tit moves on.

Oh no, I have friends who say, do you want to do a blue hair dinner? Tonight at five.

Thirty, five thirty.

I love it. Well, I need to have four hours before I lie down or.

Um yeah, yeah no. And it's also here, I think you're much more in tune with nature, so you get up when the sun gets comes up. And out there in the Santa Monica Mountains.

The Santamonica Mountains, Yeah, it's lovely out there.

It's beautiful. No, it's I call it my nearest barrowing place.

Don't you hate the commune coming in though? Did you drive yourself?

Yeah? I like to drive. Yeah, no, I think if you live in a because you know, one of my joys is oh yeah, that's right, Oh thanks pal. Yeah. One of my favorite things is finding music and blasting it, which is why I don't like people to be in the car with me very often, right because I listened to it pretty loud. Do you listen to me? A very eclectic taste. But right now I'm listening to this song, this sting song, she Walks upon the Earth. It's a little bit of a also rhythm. It's some Brazilian guy

But you're quite solitary. Then it seems to me that you quite like your own company. You're out there doing slow Kung Fu in the morning, and then you're just you in the malinoir and then you like to drive in your own.

I like to drive it on my own, but then I like to get to the place where I get to hang out with people I like, and then I get to go and play. When I arrive.

Does it still hold like acting is still fun?

Then it's still playing? Absolutely? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I don't want to ever stop. I don't think I could do what you did and go off for two years and live in a castle where it rains every day. I don't think I could do that.

Well, you'd end up building the church.

Is what happens. Is you're building a time I become a nun.

You never know you'd be a great nun.

I played a nun in a movie, and yeah, it was called what was it called?

Because I think I've seen that movie, because I think I've seen you as aenough big.

Show who was a big wrestler in the w W really a wrestling non movie. He was he was in an orphan. She was an oversized orphan, right, and I was.

It was the Rock. It was the Rock, isn't It.

Wasn't the Rock, but it was. His name was Big Show.

That was his name was a big show, Big Show.

Yeah, And uh, I just don't need to go any further.

But no, I think you played the nun in the orphanage the Big Show was an orphan and then went on to wrestle.

I guess I don't know.

You didn't see the movie.

I missed that. You know.

I have to say I have done movies I haven't seen and I have no interest in seeing.

I know, well and and maybe I'll just want to see my scene. But that's enough. Yeah.

When sometimes when you be honest, when you get a script, you just look at your lines and go yeah, yeah, I do that time. So I was very surprised, especially with voiceover stuff. When I did the How To Train Your Dragon movies. I went to the premiere, I was like, this is really good.

Oh you had no idea what the story.

I just it was like me going.

And then I was like, oh, this is a good movie. I'm really pleased.

Yeah, because usually, with the exception of Hot in Cleveland and a couple of other things, mostly what I'm in his garbage?

Do you think that so? Did you have aspirations to do something a little meteor? Yeah? I think so. At the beginning, did you ever do like, were you ever classically trained or no? No, no, no, nothing like that, But.

I kind of I think at the beginning, before I knew how the sausage was made, I was like, Oh, I want to really act, like, really do some serious acting.

Then you meet some serious actors, they go, this guy's a fucking dick.

I can't take this.

Yeah, oh my god.

There's like people like, you know, squinting into the l and that quizzical look and being very worried about it.

Very Oh. There's a lot of that, especially for men. A lot of yeallow, looks like it's going to rain, looks like yeah, a lot of mumbley.

I'd like to do a Western.

I would like to I would too, I'd love to do we could do Pioneering Family.

Okay, let's think about let's Yeah.

No, I'm not I'm not sensing a huge deal of enthusiasm for.

No, no, no, I'd love to. I mean I can ride still, right, and I should do it. Do you know Bill Shatner he was on Hot in Cleveland. Of course, he was his gallery's neighbor, I think, right. Yeah.

Bill didn't start riding horses till he was fifty.

Yeah, well I was forty. Yeah.

I think that's why he's still healthy and you know, around healthy. Esh well, not in his brain, but I think he'd be the first to admit it. He's fucking crazy. Yeah yeah, yeah, he's crazy and angry, but it's a lot of fun if you get in the right side.

Yeah. Yeah, he is fun. Yeah he has He's Canadian. A lot of Canadians are fun, you know, people say people.

Say that.

Enrico calling Tony Okay, have you ever like interviewed him one of the most hilarious, brilliant, fabulous He was on Just Shoot Me with Me. He was the bald guy, the photographer. Oh yeah, yes, amazing, amazing actor and a fabulous human. Jim Carrey, Jim Carrey.

Well, Mike Myers. So that proves your Pat O'Hara.

Catherine O'Hara is great.

It was hilarious.

Did she ever known in Cleveland. Mm hmm yeah on Cleveland to me seemed like it was. It was a really good place to meet people that you were in Oh no, no, no stars.

Yeah.

I remember Kay was there one day. I was like and he said, could I have a selfie with you? I was like, yes, you got George Kay.

My favorite was when when Carol Burnett came and she played my mother and I'd grown up you know, watching her show, and.

Which was that?

Because funny woman Jews? Were you drawn to comedy right away?

Yeah? Yeah. My favorite thing that brings me great joy, thank you for doing that, is when you get to dive into something that's really well written and you get to be human with all of that that that entails.

And uh, yeah, they're rebooting that. I think they're going to make a new Fraser.

Yeah, but it's not anything like nobody from Kelsey's the only one in it, James. No, No, it's not nor Perry nor David so uh yeah. But that was a fun one to work on. But I'm I'm working right now on an Apple TV show, shrinking. Have you seen it?

I've not seen it yet, But is that the one with Harrison Ford and Jason Siegel.

You probably know Jessica Miller, who's so great. He was on The Daily Show. She was a correspondent. I don't know, but I do know Jason hilarious woman. I play Harrison's neurologist, nice and we end up having a thing Harrison Ford. Uh huh, that's all right, it's all right. And it was so much fun to work with him, for one thing, because he's a doll.

He was on the Late Night Show. He was a lot of fun.

He's really great. Yeah he's like real curmudgeingly, but he's actually really fun.

Yeah, it's that funny thing.

Very and I told him he was like an old he was like my favorite old pair of jeans. And that's the highest compliment I could pay a man. But that show allows you to go into some darker places. It's the same people who did Ted Lazo and you know, which is just a wonderful It just sort of the whole spectrum of human behavior, and so people can find joy and sorrow and all of it. And as actors, getting a chance to play in that kind of a playground is much more gratifying than just join stray comedy.

Well, I think that that draws me more than just stick.

Yeah.

But the idea of even even this podcast was all about I hate the word podcast.

It feels like, I know, let's find a different word.

Radio conversation, radio program, this radio program that goes on computers and phones. Now, the whole idea behind these conversations that is that I wanted to talk to people, not necessarily about joy, but that had a positive impact on me.

People I liked.

Oh really, is that why you invited me? Yeah?

I like you.

Oh.

I don't want to invite people if I don't know them, like you, I know, because we work together, and I liked you, and I still like you even although when you come in you said, oh, you've gained a few pounds and the uh, And I still want.

It's only because I care about you.

Yes, I know, because I speak La and you've gained a few pounds.

Means, my god, what.

The fuck is deer in the rain in Scotland.

God, you've been sitting in Scotland eating pies magis.

I don't eat the high as much.

You invited me once to my husband. I were going to be in England, and you said, if you come up to Scotland if fedure some magas from Yeah.

Well, and that remains open.

You can never eat eggs vegetation anymore. Yeah, but I would have some of your salmon if it's fresh.

Oh yeah, I got about of salmon. But I tell you what Mick Sweden's vegetarian agis. Oh yeah, you may make that face, but I'm telling you it's great.

But see, I don't like any of that plant based stuff that's supposed to taste like meat.

It's not meant to taste like me.

I don't know.

It's vegetarian hagis, and it predates plant based stuff. Even although it's plant based, it predates plants, That's what I'm saying.

It's made of dinosaurs.

It's dinosaury, which counts. Yeah, it's Prestride, Dinosaury. It's it's vegetarian haggis from Xsweens and Edinburgh's delicious.

Now how about I just come and we have salmon.

Yeah, you can have salmon as well.

It's the church and you can go to the I'll show you the church that you'd be very You'd be like, this isn't a church a building?

The church?

It's the church.

I love that. Yeah. No, it's a chapel.

No, chapel sounds a little Oh it's bigger than a chap No, no, no, no, it's it's small. I mean it's about the size of maybe the rumor in right now, that's a chapel. Is that a chapel? Right, it's a little chapel, man, And you can go and do the chap You don't get married in there now. But the thing is, I used to be quite atheistic.

I'm not atheistic anymore. Are you an atheist?

I don't think so. I think I still believe there is some greater thing and something I love. My daughter is in Europe right now and she keeps just randomly running into people she knows from like boarding school. I mean she's twenty one and she three times has run into people in Paris, in Amsterdam that's very cool, which I just love. And she said, can you believe it? And I said, you know, I really do think there's a master plan to all of this. I don't think

I think that that's right, and I think that you can choose to believe it.

It's almost like you can choose to be positive.

Yeah, you can choose to believe, or you can dismiss it as it's all random and chaotic, which is they're both equally unprovable.

Yeah, so you might as well. I mean that.

I remember I was talking to a friend of mine who's very devout, I suppose, and he said, look, if I get to the other side after all of this and somebody or nothing happens, or somebody says, no, you got it totally wrong, what does it matter. I had a good time, I liked it made me feel better, and I kind of I'm impressed by that. Also, the idea, because atheism is so didactic and religious as a stance, and it's fundamentalism.

I don't do well with that, yeah, you know.

And also you're saying Einstein wrong, Socrates is wrong, Isaac Newton wrong, Planto wrong.

And on that note, I told you I lost my mom about three weeks agow very sorry at ninety four. She had a great run, and she was ready there at the end of she said to my brother. At one point she looked up and said, oh, you kids are so darling to be here. I know you have lives of your own, and I'm sorry it's taking me so long to die.

She was, that's amazing.

But when she finally left, same thing happened with my dad. He waited for us. But I realized that. And if you've ever been around I've never been around a person when they actually passed, but I've been around many many animals that we've had to put down over the years, and the second they go, the energy just goes wosh. Yeah,

I think also whenever you talk, particularly with atheists, who are you know, it's kind of like people who are really into weed.

I'm like, shut up about your atheism and your fucking weed.

Shut up. I don't mind you having't it. Just keep the stank of me. And do you smoke a little weed on occasion?

Well you don't smell of it, So well done.

I'm just oh, very rarely. Yeah, but I do like I like a little chocolate at night, dark chocolate.

You were going to see pod or something like.

A little acid on weekends? Me?

Did you ever get into that? Did you ever get druggy for any length of time?

Sure? Really? Oh? Yeah, cocaine, I suppose No, I never liked coke. I'm wired enough. I like things that are chill.

You like the base.

I did love I love tripping when I was in college. Really yeah. Oh it was so much fun for a group of people that you knew and trusted, and it was really really fascinating and mind blowing. And I'm kind of.

Great, quite surprised to hear you say that that that you were into psychedelics. That would you get so you do it properly. You set together, we're all going to take this.

Yes, the same yah with people that we loved, and we always could be in nature outside and uh, total trust thing. And yeah, I know it was quite wonderful, but it just takes way too long to come back down from when.

You laugh and then it's day three.

Well, and having just these amazing epiphanies you know.

Yeah, what epiphanies did you have?

Oh? I just yes, I do. Remember. It was kind of the same thing I had first thought about when I was sitting on the we used to sleep on the beach at that place in Canada, my summer rouge, and I remember being a kid and looking up at the stars and thinking, so, I wonder what is beyond what I can see, and what's beyond that, and that whole concept of infinity, which is like so mind boxing, but the whole idea that we are just this tiny

I think that that it's very helpful in that regard. I mean, if I have a belief in a deity or a god, and I'm like you, there's something it's not all normal. And I can't imagine that that deity, that enormity would be worried about what I would wear when, and who I would love and what you should read? Yeah, and what words I say out loud, like if one's got an F in the front or something. It's like, I don't get all the the pressure of all that. That's a people thing, I think, is not a god thing.

Now, And I think this whole kind of extremist sort of positioning on who you should love, yeah, and what you should read.

And it's a real throwback all that.

It is a throwback. It seems like we're going back into like the Stone agers.

It's just not It's funny because I think about that. You have a daughter who's twenty one. I have a son who's the same age, twenty one. That generation are much maligned by people of our generation. I was calling them woke and calling them names basically because they believe in a different way. And I fell into that trap a little bit myself. But because I work in humor and so I'm like.

I should be able to say what I want.

Then I know I get yelled at about pronouns.

Yeah, well, you know, if you change the reals that fast, you got to give me a chance to catch out. I mean, but I think the thing is my son said to me, well, what do you want to say that you're not getting llowed to say? I said, well, nothing, I guess, but I should be allowed to say what I said. You can't say what you want, But what do you want to say that it's so injectionable?

I went, I don't think there is anything.

But I think it's fear of getting older for a lot of people. I think the idea of calling younger people names is because as you're afraid.

Well, and I think and I remember going back to when Obama won the election and my mother, who was a lovely person and doesn't have a mean or racist bone in her body, but she actually was thinking about voting for him. But she said, I'd never vote for Hillary. But my dad got to her and she ended up voting for Hillary. No oh oh, oh, oh, she went the other way. Yeah, she went the other way. But afterwards, when Obama won, she said, you must be very happy.

I think that's what age feels like sometimes. Yeah, I think your mother is accurate in the sense of the sensation of it. But if you think back to your Pentecostal grandfather and how your life in Paris when you were a young woman, how different and terrifying that would have been to him. I think watching the youth is frightening because they don't need you.

I think that, And at the same time, that's exactly what you hope for, exactly.

It's it's the weird thing.

It's like when I look at, you know, as my younger son is only twelve and he needs me, but not as much as he needed me five years ago, and five years from now is going to need me even less, you know, And it's unnerving a little. I think on societal level as well, Like America of course is changing, It is changing. Everything changes all the time, and I think that there is an idea that people have that it always gets better, and I don't.

Know if that's true.

We don't know, do we No.

Are you a student of history at all?

And do you little yeah, little yeah, like looking at the circular way that history unfolds, that we go too far in one direction and then in another and then find our balance again, you know. I think in terms of the environmental stuff, that's the part that is the most chilling for me, because we don't have time to dick around with this stuff anymore, we don't.

I think that the environmental stuff fascinates me because it's such an emotional thing.

See.

I have a feeling that Americans in particular, but really everyone in the world, but particularly Americans, are not political at all.

They're emotional.

And I think that the argument for in climate change right now is very high on everyone's emotional level. But I think it's also an engineering problem, and I think that that's a little different. And what I mean is, I'm like, I'm not in any way saying that one of this, because of course it exists. But I think you must add to the emotion the engineering challenge of this.

I agree with you, but I think that it is now at the level where it is changing so rapidly, and we are such pigs in this country in terms of our consumption. I mean, the States is the worst offender.

Is it really I didn't.

Pila definitely.

Yeah, And you look at Africa, who I think. I think it's like five percent of the pollution comes from the entire continent of Africa, you know, and they're probably going to have the hardest. This will impact them the most drastically.

Are you very involved in that world?

Do you?

What do you do with them?

I mean, how does an individual do that? I mean, because I find it hard to believe that if I put you know, plastic in one container and you know, vegetables in another, that it will help Africa.

Does it work?

So I'm on the Environmental Media Association board. We just had a Climate and Impact summit last week. It was a three day thing where different people who are trying to work on ways of solving this and a youth board which we also have, sort of come together and figure out positive steps you can take, you know, going forward. But what it seems to always boil down to is consumption, and we are such huge consumers here and breaking that kind of addiction is going to be the biggest challenge.

Right?

Well, I guess I'm going to have to put my earbuts in just blasted that way. I'm being facetious. But I was sitting the other day when it was pouring rain. I was going to come and see you, and it was just way too crazy in story and thinking, God, how blessed am I to be sitting in this cozy house with a fire going, and I'm dry and safe and warm, And there are so many people who are not in this situation or it's either too fucking hot or it's too freezing cold, and it's they don't have

It's interesting because I of course agree with you, and I think that a law, I think probably the majority of people would agree with you. I think that there is an emotional distrust out there of the system and how to do it. I think a lot of people have lost faith and because there is no real news outlet that you can trust like.

None, like I don't. I still I still find NPR comforting, all right.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't listen to enough NPR, but I like the idea of you being out there in the rainy house for the fire going and NPR.

I still listen to the BBC.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't hold with the BBC anymore. I mean, I think the journalism.

Is great, but they've let you do.

But they've let me down a couple of times, and I'm like, no, that's not what happened, or why didn't you report on that? Or you know, it's like there is subject to pressure from outside horses as everyone else.

You know, what we might need an alien invasion.

That would certainly bring us all together.

Yeah, something that unifies you to realize you really do share this planet.

Or maybe a giant comet.

Or a giant commet, you know, asteroid.

Like asteroid, big asteroid coming towards that.

It be not an invasion, but the aliens come, but they're far more wise wiser than we are. Yeah. Yeah, you know, like e T or did you ever see the Day of the Earth stood still? Yeah?

Of course, which one corp like Klattultu Metico. Yeah, now you're talking the Brian the original one, right, That was Michael Rennie.

Michael Rannie, not Brian Rennie. I think Brian Rennie was the guy that does.

Let Go with like I was.

I don't remember being in a nut film Michael Ranni and then Kenna Reeves did the remake of it.

Yeah, no, you can't rent that movie.

I don't.

Although if you've got a chance of doing anything good, it's with Kenny's really Yeah, I'm a big fan, are you?

Yeah? I am. Well I should probably revisit him because I fell out.

Of in what movie one?

I don't know. I just I found him not so interesting.

You have to have you seen the John Wick movies. No, they're awesome.

Okay, they're like a dark.

Tom Cruise movie, like bad, violent, scary.

That's why I haven't seen that.

Yeah, I can't imagine that it's your thing, you know what. It's not really my thing either. But I watched one and I thought, oh, you know what, that's awesome. I'm going to watch that.

I get it's like a guy thing.

Yeah, it's a little bit.

I know. I remember somebody in New York years ago, who was a writer on Saturday Night Live in the early days, printed cards saying violence is not entertainment. I'm kind of I'm sort of a subscriber with that. So I don't watch violent things. I get that, but I think it is Saturday Life.

Well.

Also, it's kind of like the gunfight scene or Star Wars or you know what I mean. It's like violences and entertainment, you know, Three Stooges. Even in Marks Brought.

There's something about the violence that's kind of silly and fun and fantastical, and something about the real terrifying. And I don't know. I mean, I'm just speaking for myself, because perhaps that can put some people off and make them a little more wary of doing that. But we are such a violent society right now in this country that I don't know that it's good to glorify that.

Oh I suppose you're right.

Does it desensitize you to violence?

I suppose it does?

I think so?

Yeah, I think so. I think they had to do that.

Do you remember do you remember did you ever see the movie Alan Ladd was a George Stevens movie? All right, George Stevens, Yeah, but it was the first Western where he said, I want real gun on fire. I want to hear how loud it is. And when it was first screened in the in the theaters, people said, turn that way down, it's way too loud. They said, no, that's the sound of a real gun going off. And when they punch somebody, you really heard the punch and you saw the guy go down hard, and it was

I have seen that movie a lot.

He wanted people to understand that this was real, that it's not just a boom boom boom boom. You know, it's uh that that guns kill and punch is hurt.

I remember seeing that when I was a kid in the Rockford Files the first time, when Jim Gardner would punch somebody, they go ow ow.

His hand was sort of everything and it was kind of cartoony.

But I remember thinking, because I was, you know, I get into some scrapes and I was a kid, and I remember.

Really really hard.

Yeah, you don't just get up and do it again and then run after the guy after you've had that. No, I still see these things. Occasionally I'll catch something and it'll be a guy getting the shit beat out of them and he gets up and runs after the one who did it.

Well, you know what, that's also true when people get drunk in movies. They don't feel that well, they get I'm really drunk, and then then they say, but we have to go and do this and go okay, and they kind of shake it off like that's the arena.

Apparently that's the adrenaline.

It's like two months in fucking rehab to stop being drunk nasty.

So listen as we get onto that, just very briefly.

You never because we talked about you taking the bass notes and the psychedelics.

But it never drew you in. You never got into a problem with any of it.

Oh no, no, I actually I think I'm blessed with moderation and.

You are a very temperate person emotionally, I think. But I've never been married to you, so I don't.

Well that's true. Yeah, no, I would say, I say, that's that's kind of I think that's how I'm wired. So I enjoyed it. But it never interfered with you know, school or work or anything like that. Admirable, and I'd like to drink, but you know, not long access. Do you like to drink Scotch in the winter when it's really cold, You would really enjoy Scotland. Apart from the hag Gus, I'm more of a Martini person, but I.

Okay, all right, well also they drink Martini's.

So you and your husband come to Scotland and we'll feed you some salmon and whiskey, and you can go to.

The re church and the Wee Church and you go to the we church. Sounds like a plan.

All right, Thanks for coming back.

It's my joy to be here. See.

I love that you're so professional.

I'm just trying to help.

No, it's all right.

I like you.

I think you two.

That's why we did this.