The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascal Tour comes to these following places this very week. November Skokie, Illinois, November the fourth, Minneapolis, two shows that night, and I'm shooting a special nice November the fifth, Madison, Wisconsin. November the sixth, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. For a full list of dates, please go to my website, The Craig Ferguson Show dot com slash Tour. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interest in people about what brings them happiness.
Today we're chatting with Pete Holmes.
He's a stand up comedian, he's a philosopher, and he's a friend of mine.
His new comedy.
Specialist on Netflix.
It's called I'm Not.
For Everyone, and I like it because I'm also not for everyone.
Here's Pete. Here's the thing. Well, I don't think I think time is an imposition on reality. Explain death. I don't think time exists. It's a vehicle. It's like we've landed on the moon and the way that we can move and interact with the moon is driving that little rover thing. I think that little rover thing is time. It's merciful. If everything happened to you all at once, it would be like like you know, two thousand and one a space on it would be overwhelming. So graciously
we're given this kind of like slow pace. But I think death isn't so much the end of you as the end of time and the end of your identity as yourself. But I think it expands into what it always was, which is a still point of infinite potential.
You know the astrophysicsien, No, no, the astrophysics of what you saying it are actually surprisingly is that right?
Contemporary thinking?
Yeah, that everything exists all the time, and that the humans we narrative eze it right, we've turned it into something to help us cope, right, But it's it doesn't exist like that.
Well as a cart tole trobloon, car to lone said, ask a ask an eagle what time it is before people were on the planet. Like, just ask a fucking fish what time it is. It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense. I watch myself teach that to my daughter. My daughter's five, and it's kind of sad, but I kind of have to. I'll go, like, what was your favorite part of your day, and I'm teaching her to build a meaning system of past, present future. I think that's a fair thing to do, is you
know you have to do it. Yeah, yeah, we have to do it. Yeah, but we don't have to do it as much as we do it. But you know, you can get in touch with it. That's one of the See, these aren't just interesting thought experiments. They're the cessation of your worries. Like if you can really experienceuly no like capital k no that it's all now, it's all sort of so hard to talk about. No, it vanish and with all that vanishing, all your pain and fear goes away.
You know that the early Christian theologians, in particular Origin of Alexandria.
They that's exactly what I'm talking about.
The early Christian theologians easy they would explain the virgin birth away in that particular has nothing to do with morality or sex. It was to do with the fact that there was a young woman and then there was a young woman who had a baby, and it just happened just like that, because that's how the universe is, and there was no time. That's that was the intellectual and theological thinking behind the concept of the virgin.
Birth metaphorical stuff. Yeah, it's interesting. I used to say, I didn't put this in my book, but I wanted to put in my book. It was like I used to think, when I would write another book, I'll read another book. Just give me five minutes. Okay, chat GPT, write a book in the voice of Pete Holmes, does it? It's terrible? Well, it's a start, a first draft. The first draft is always the hardest. Chat GPT.
I'd like an hour and a half of Craig Artis material. Okay, now I'll rewrite it.
Make it good. I think it's hilarious that comedians make fun of chat GPT. It's like they're like, and it said said strawberry was a fruit or whatever. I'm like, guys, it's incredible that it said anything. Yeah, it's amazing, And
these jokes won't last very long. Any who. I was saying, when I was a fundamentalist growing up, you were yeah, just meaning a literalist, just meaning I believe that the Bible was a literal like a historical like a science book, worse than a historical document, right, because I do think the Bible is history. Interwoven with metaphor, but which makes it very confusing.
It's also it's allegorical in its style, so that's very difficult.
And it's amitic in its style too. You know who explain it to me? There were Alexander Shaia, who is like an expert in metaphor and mythology. He explained it to me like this. He goes in Semitic storytelling, which is what the New Testament is, or at the Old Testament as well. If somebody is talking to a poor person, you tell them a story about losing five dollars. If you're talking to him Ted Serranos, you tell a story about losing ten million dollars like that detail doesn't matter
at fucking all. The other point I tried to make in my book is like, ah, fuck, I can't remember it, but we know this in music, Like in music, we're using like poetry and things to help us understand a feeling. Can you hear the drums Fermando that the learn Yeah, there you go, right?
It was that.
Actually it was a Ray Charles lyric about the weather and it was something about it it's raining when she's gone or something, and we were like, we know he doesn't mean it's raining right, They had just a different understanding.
When I was writing one of my books, I said that in Scotland all women were called margaret until nineteen seventy four. Nah, I didn't mean that in Scotland all women were called margaret until nineteen seventy four. What I meant was, yeah, in nineteen seventy four I began to think about sex. That's really funny and so yeah, that's exactly right, and that's what it is, right.
Yeah, what would they make of Harry Potter? You know, like a future civilization looking at our time would also have to sit through similar degrees of you know, bullshit if you're looking at it scientifically, and that's what we're doing. So anyway, there was a time when I believed that the Bible, the point of the Bible was like the facts and seven days and physical death and resurrect I actually had the list. It was virgin birth, sinless life,
physical death, and resurrection. That sort of like those were non negotiables, things like you couldn't be a part of this group and not believe in those things. I don't feel that way anymore, but my fantasy when I was in high school was like I wish there had been video cameras and recording devices when Jesus was right alive. And now I'm like, what in real and fucking ruin it? You know what I mean? Like, I know it's weird to kind of equate Batman and Jesus, but I'm about,
you'll always find a friend here, Pete. If you do that, well, remember and Batman begins, sure you do. Where they're where they're telling him he can be a symbol. Symbols are powerful. Carl Jung pretension alert. No, no, no, very important. He's right, very importantly transformed by symbols. We think it's the you know what I was just talking to my wife about by watching things online Instagram, TikTok, YouTube even that summarize things to their point, where actually I'm learning that the
point isn't the point. The point isn't the resurrection or the or the virgin birth even correct. The point is It's like thinking Alan Watts said this, he goes, the point of your life is life, you know what I mean. It's like it's this moment, it's today, it's what you're doing now. It's like a piece of music. It's like we think the end of the life is like the last note, that's like the point or or the summation or something. No, it's it's the whole flow of the symphony.
In the same way, you could summarize this podcast to the points. Maybe we'll make some interesting points, maybe we'll oh, we learned that thing about Harry Potter and reduce it into a three minute thing. But the point was actually like being lulled into our space. That's what art is come in. This is what it was like when Craig and Pete started talking, and it's kind of like, oh, they're they're looking for jokes. What's this cancel? And it's
about the point? Isn't the point? Is my point? I agree?
And I actually think it was quite interesting about it is that when people want to do that, I have I have a theory of when it began mm and it's crib notes.
Crib notes.
Oh like rib notes, yes, cliff notes for MTV, cribs, crib notes. This is my house, this is where the action happens.
These sneakers. But you can get through an episod of cribs in like three seconds with and you with crib notes, You're fine.
They call them crib notes in my country, I think, although my country, to be honest, is Manhattan, but still they call it crib notes or cliff notes wherever it is to summarize, to take something like I don't know, let's go with great expectations. Sure, which is a book which I didn't write it, I will admit it would have been vastly.
Improved with the line.
In France, all women were called mid gray until yes, seventeen seventeen.
Yeah gray.
But I think that trying to boil down things and to make them accessible, to put them into bite sized chunks, is to miss the point of them completely.
Absolutely. And life is the same that I used to skip introductions to books because I was like, just fucking get to get on with the book. And now it's like, I think it's something to do with getting older, hopefully a little bit wiser. You're like, it's actual. The foyer of the house is like.
Just as important as the dining room, in many ways more important because you know, the foye is a little bit of individuality and strangeness and welcome to my world.
Yeah.
The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascal stand up Tour continues this fall. For tickets, go to the Craig Ferguson show dot com slash.
Tour see you on the Road.
I used to love and I still do actually, and I wrestle with this. The first lines of books very important, I agree, just to create, to let you know what's coming, right, that's what it is. It's not It doesn't sum up the book. But my favorite one was always the start of nineteen eighty four. It was a bright, cold day in April and the clocks were striking thirteen.
That's great. What the fuck is something is deeply wrong? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great. I love the idea.
And people always say call me Ishmael and I'm like, well, that one, I don't really. I mean it's it's a great book and I love it. It's a fucking masterpiece. But yeah, the first line, I don't understand why it's so great. Yeah, but when there are lines in you know it was the best of times, it was the worst of times. Okay, it was life. Yeah, life was was was unfolding as it always does, and here's what was happening at this point.
Yeah yeah, in the ever expanding universe. Yeah, that's right. I feel the same way about stand up specials. In fact, that's my number one criticism is me going, that's how you started. Yeah, yeah, And I know this sounds stupid. I'm going to use myself as an example, but I miss this opener one of my specials I'm really thinking about. I think it was it was called Faces and Sounds. I open by smiling, I look at the audience, I let the applause down, and I go sometimes I get scared,
and I'm like that that was it. That's a great beginning. I love that. That's a great start to a book. I miss. I know sometimes I get scared. Yeah. I had a fake opening to a book about my life, which I've used in other things. But it's my father was an oil man, but our house was always cold, which I thought. I thought that while I was in our freezing ass house, and I was like, my dad delivers home heating oil. And there's there's a real that's you get it right, like you see a disconnect.
The last one that I booked that I completed, I'm still note right in another one. But the last one that I completed, I woke up with the first light in my head and the book came from that.
Wow.
I woke up in the morning. I was like, oh my god, that's a book. And it was in the time before I loved you. I never thought of the world as precious.
Oh my god, that needs a warning. You need a warning. Yeah, I know it was crazy. And what's crazy about that, Craig, was that before you said? I just thought of the line in the book came from that. I thought, well, that's like Cormick McCarthy, who he didn't say that he channeled his books. I'm not saying he's channeled his books. I am saying he wrote them like he didn't know what was happening. Stephen King's talked about that too. Yeah,
and I think that's a real thing. I think I would use the word channeling like he's tapping into a pure creative space that is kind of available to us. His antenna was just very, very precise and found the story. But he's writing it and he doesn't know what's going to happen. But in the book The Road, there's a similar line about the boy his son. It's not it. I'm not saying, oh, it's too much. It's not that.
I'm saying it's something like something like if the boy wasn't precious, then preciousness didn't exist, or something very beautiful in a similar way, beautiful channeled from And you're also in the same oasis or something.
We're talking about your friend Carl Jung, the theory of the collective unconscious. So that's right, and I think that it's interesting because I've written three books. So I'm going to tell you the third opening line, or this was from the first. The first book I wrote was the novel, and the opening line of the book, which I was very proud of, was cloven hoofed creature walked this way.
That's the opening line of the book.
And then I became convinced that it was also the opening line of Stings Autobiography. I don't know why, so I had to go and find a copy of Stings Autobio.
What do you think that just occurred to you?
Yeah, I became obsessed that it was the opening line of Stings out of Nowhere, out of Nowhere, and I couldn't I couldn't rest until I found out I didn't have a copy at home. This is before you could just find it on the internet. So I had to go to a bookstore and find a copy of Stings autobiography and see if it was there. It wasn't, thank god, But I can't convince the first line was.
Molliady or or rock sand Did you like the Police? No? No, I never did either. In fact, it's kind of funny that you ask when I'm stressed, which isn't often. But if I go if the Dark Dog is visiting, I hear you. I fucking hate music and my heart just just repetitive pop music. Right, So if you I remember being in the car with my mom, I'm in the back seat and the police are on and they're sending out and SSS song and I'm in the back and I must say it's a terrible song, and I must
say sending out in SOS. I want to guess conservatively three hundred and seventy two times like it just oh yeah, it could just repeats it over And I don't even know that I'm having a generalized anxiety disorder, right, but
I am. I'm a child, and I'm fucking stressed out, and I'm harping on that they won't stop saying it, and every time they say it, I'm like, that's got to be the last time, and then they say it again, and at some point I just go ah, and my mom goes what because she's having a generalized anxiety disorder of her own, and I'm like, they just won't stop saying send it out, ASA's I learned a profound lesson that day that like, not everyone's having your experience. Some
people it's just background music. I hear you in the music thing, though it's quite interesting.
There's never a point where I could say I don't like music, but there's definitely been a point where I kind oft listen to contemp prouty music.
Yeah, like this is just is just garbage? Oh no, if I'm having a generalized anxiety disorder and you put on the national In fact, that's why I listen to there's music that like saves me from that feeling. But my daughter is five and I love her to death, and I will listen to whatever she wants to listen to, and she wants to listen to, like fucking ice cream? What is it? Man and men and men? Menanda to buy me? I myself myself And if you're having a
rough day, that sounds scary. That music makes me want to die.
It's it's funny because both my boys, and particularly the youngest one, he wouldn't listen to kids music and I put it on and be like no, no, no, really, and then his mother, Megan would do on joy division because he's like even relax. He'd be like, yeah, well, sir.
Can I tell you that my one of my daughter's favorite songs. And here's the weirdest part. I like it too. There is some pop music I like and it really burrows into my brain and it's almost like I like music too much, if that makes sense, And sometimes I go, I don't like music, But really it's because.
What's too big a subject to see music? Because it's like saying Basquier, right, who said art is how we decorate space. Music is how we decorate time. So it's as big as a word is art? You can you know, so you can't say, really music, you have to be more specific.
That's fair. Do you want to hear my quote about art? Yes, I hope you enjoy it. I go art is highly sensitive people reporting back to the group what reality is like for them. And that's how I feel. That's really good. I like that. I do like that. Just kidding it should be it should be. It's a good line. What kind of book are you going to write? I have notes for another book about spirituality. I like writing books that only a handful of people would like to read.
May I recommend literary fiction because I've written one and I'm halfway through another. Nobody reads that shit, so you like yet I read it.
It's very important. And no, I mean you like the process of writing it like I.
Do, because it's only way you're going to find out what happens.
Yeah, there you go, McCarthy.
Yeah, I mean, but but look, I'm not comparing myself to Courmite McCarthy.
But he's dead. He won't.
Yeah, but he has acolytes. Oh that's right, and they on mind droves. Yeah, yeah, no, we won't.
I won't compare myself. You did compare yourself to Herman Melville on my podcast, but.
I said my book was better. Go on, go on, then I did. I only compared myself to Herman Melville, know, in.
The literary just because he was overlooked. Yeah, well he was a bit, to be fair. Yeh yeah, in his lifetime.
In his lifetime. But here's an interesting thing, because I was thinking about that. Only did I talk to you about this on the on your podcast that I went to the van Go exhibition and yes she did and talking about medication.
No you didn't. You talked about the Andy Warhol and you love the gift shop. I did love the idea. Tell me about the Van Go.
So I'm looking at the van Go exhibition and the and it is transcendent.
The art is unbelievably beautiful and it's.
Heartbreaking, league gorgeous, wonderful art, Ben Gogous van Gogius. But I thought to myself, I wonder because clearly von Go if he had left now, it could have been helped with contemporary medications. Yes, and I wonder what he would I think he would have preferred the medication.
I always think about this poem. There was an irishman, an Irish poet who came on my podcast over ten years ago. So I forgive myself for not remembering. But he's like, asking a poet for another poem is to ask for his heart to be broken, basically, And that's kind of what you're saying. Yeah, it's a very interesting topic. I have some friends people that I know that went on like very strong anti anxiety medication and I'm not
trying to put that down. I'm saying we need to get the dose right because some of these people I missed them, you know what I mean. I'm like, Oh, it turns out like my friend Joe called me this week and he was just open for groceries in Manhattan and we just talk fucking nothing, just making each other laugh, and the subtitles on for that conversation, We're like, I'm here, are you here? I'm a little afraid. Are you afraid? Yeah, I'm afraid? And if I wasn't afraid. Look, mental illness
is a real thing. I'm just gonna say that one more time. And we need help, and we need all the help we can get. Sure. I'm just saying, like, dial it in and everybody would agree with that if there gets a point where like if I can't, you're docking on me. Now. We're bonding now over anxiety. We're helping each other with our anxiety. And if I was completely flat, nobody wants to be flat.
No, But if you are writing to kind of extend the mit for a rather clumsy way. But if you're on a very bumpy airplane and it gets smooths out for a while, it's fucking relief.
I know I probably shouldn't even be talking about this because I don't know, right.
You know, well, look I think people should lacks a little bit. You're allowed to have an opinion. The only thing is just because you have an opinion doesn't don't have to hold on to it. And also it doesn't have to be it's not right. Yeah, you know, I'm not claiming. I'm just saying, look, this is what I think. But I will preface it with I'm not a doctor, I'm not a priest, I'm not you, and I'm not.
In your situation. I'm in my situation.
And I think that the danger with the current orthodox drive for everyone to agree is that but if everyone agrees, or if you only are comfortable talking to people you agree with, you'ren't going to expand your experience, right, And if you can't expand your experience, is it really are you really going to learn anything?
Well, we're not They're not good example. There's examples of haters who hate everything, and then there is like kind of I do see a trend where you're not even allowed to not like something. Have you seen less? Like something comes out and you're like, well, we're not allowed to not like that. I feel that way about cannabis. Yeah, I think we talked about that, so you can't talk about weed.
Yeah, it's like everybody's we is the fucking savior of the earth. Weed, you know, get a fucking job heavy. I don't get it. It's like I've gotta love weed. I never liked weed. When I was doing drugs, I didn't like weed. No, I don't do drugs gonna like weed.
Yeah, yeah, No, that's a very good example. You're not. But I thought you were gonna say that Van Goh, had he been medicated, wouldn't have made the art. And I don't know if he would have.
He wouldn't, but I feel like but I would wager that he wouldn't. I think you're probably right, made or different art. I don't know it's different art. It's inconceivable he would have done Anthon ber but but it's it would have been different.
Yeah, I would to that. I would say my best stuff comes from a clear, spacious place in me, not an agitated, angry place. I might write something agitated and angry, but my best jokes come from a place of you know, I don't I don't think, you know, because well that's fair. I'm just saying I wasn't depressed when I came up with the best.
Right, you weren't depressed when you came up with it, but the process and getting to the joke it may may.
Have cooked it up earlier.
Yeah, and I think that to discount see my secret feeling. I even hesitate to say this because I know, get into trouble for saying it, but because the role of being a victim is now fetishized a little bit that there seems to be an urge to pathologize every single emotion or opinion.
Or beat of your life.
And I don't think it's necessary to do that. Like if you say I really didn't like that thing, well, okay, you didn't like it. It's you know, comedy is a great example for this, because people will say that's not funny, that's not comedy. You go, well, it clearly is, because look there's ten thousand people laughing at.
It, so clearly it is comedy.
Yeah, you wouldn't you say, you say I don't like classical music, Well, it doesn't mean it's not music.
It's just not music that you like.
And the whole idea of saying something isn't a thing unless you endorse it you personally, one has to either it's binary thinking.
Is that one or zero?
It's the is thinking like a machine, it's on or it's off.
And I don't.
Understand that's that's the last thing we should be fucking doing. We have machines to do that for us.
We don't need to do that, right. Yeah, No, it's it's I completely agree. And it is sort of an addictdy and it's a narcissistic yistic.
It's interesting that you use the word, and I use it myself too, and I want to talk a little bit about it.
No, narcissist.
Narcissist is an interesting one because people it's a very hot ticket word to use right now, it's like, oh, he's a narcissist, you know, he's kind of just a deck Sure.
I have a lot of thoughts about this. Well, there's narcissistic personality disorder. Now I sound like I am a doctor. No, that that is a real thing. It's absolutely and then there are narcissistic tendencies. But I think we could would all do well. What's interesting about that is experts in the field from the books that I've read would say that it's good to have some characteristics of narcissistic tendencies,
meaning sure some of them are. There's like healthy levels of narcissism that I like this where this is going.
So what you're saying is that these conditions are unhealthy levels of something that's right, all right. So if you can get if you have some fat in your food, it's good.
That's if you have too much then yeah, yeah, yeah. Once it gets to a point and I forget what the list is, but this, this will make you laugh. I was reading a book to see if people are the judge of that. I was reading a book to see if people in my family were narcissistic. And then it's listing the qualities of a narcissist and I'm like, oh, no, really for me, but anyone being honest, maybe that's not true. I can't speak to any other people. But I was like, I have a lot of Like one of them was.
I understand up, comedian, how can you not have some of that?
Absolutely? But then my beloved Valerie, my beloved Valerie, but she was like, I.
Must talk to you off, my beloved valid She was like, I take.
A lot of comfort in No, No one with narcissistic personality disorder goes, Oh, no, am I a narcissist? Like that's that's right, that's it's almost twenty two. It's a good thing. Yeah, it's great.
It's Catch twenty two is like, yeah, if you visit the in Catch twenty two, if you want to not fly these missions, you can't be crazy because you don't want to be crazy to.
Want to fly these missions. Well, can I say I'm watching as we all are? I'm assuming every single person in America is watching the Office at some point in their life. Maybe not you, you wild boys, But I'm just saying. Angela Kinsey is a close personal friend, my Angela. I call her Angela, the Angela from the show. Yeah. Oh she's lovely. Oh she's she's just the greatest girl. Is she really? Yeah, she's no fairy chair podcasting. Hell, guess who's gonna poach your guests?
Yeah, she's she's the she's the greatest. Doesn't mean Scotland and Josh and the kids.
Yeah, that's beautiful. Well she knows that. I'm sure people tell her all the time. It's almost like a disorder we all have, like we all kind of have to be watching the office. Here's my point, though, Michael Scott has a lot of narcissistic tendencies and they delight us. We like it. I was trying to say to somebody, like comedy is a little bit like you go to a restaurant so they'll deep fry a twinkie for you.
It's not good for you, but you wouldn't do it if you had to batter up a twinkie and deep fry it in oil and you can see the ingredients and the fucking nutrition, but you want it and you like it. So Michael Scott is like a deeply narcissistic person and we love laughing at him. So to your point, cleaning everything up and making everybody agree isn't even what we really want. And we're back to our friend young. We actually want what we don't want a lot of
the time. It is the duality problem, isn't it. It's that book.
I wonder if what we're doing is falling into the trap. Certainly I've fallen into this trap and I might be doing it right now. Is that Because I've talked to my oldest son about this. He's twenty two and he's very, very clever, and he said that, he said, Dad, you're talking about forty people on Twitter.
I don't even fucking know what you're worried about.
You know what these opinions are, so that like, if you focus on that group of people, you're going to hear that good thing.
I don't.
He seems to not be as incensed by opinions that fly them from social media, and I think young people are less bothered by it.
They grew up with it.
They grew up with it, so it's I see, I grew up with the notion of the power of the written word, that if something was written down, it had an inherent value.
Now clearly that's totally gone.
But I believed that anything that was written down was worth at least your attention. Yeah, and of course it's not anymore because everyone raised everything down and a lot of its garbage.
Yeah. It's just like talking now, right.
Some people can talk very well and they say a lot of interesting things, and some people just are me talking now.
Well, Yeah, I mean that's the classic. It doesn't really work. But you're like, if you could see the person who said something you didn't like, I'm talking about like a hater. He could not only I don't mean to judge their life. I just mean if you could see how thoughtlessly and how like it's just something they do. It's like each ship Craig Ferguson, you suck like it was nothing. It
was just a fart. I look at social media. It's like you're opening the window to the like Times Square, and it's just filled the noise.
And why are you listening to this? Why it goes against your instincts, particularly if you're a stand up, because you wouldn't Heckler do that.
It goes Seinfeld goes. He comes up a lot. We don't comedy doesn't really need to be reviewed. It was reviewed that night we did it. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, And I love that and that what That's what keeps it pure, and that's what keeps its said about social media put down that breadon no trace.
Atkins, who is a country singer of some repute.
He's a very growth gentleman. That's the dude. Yeah, he was the guy. He's a hilarious guy.
He's lovely, and he's wrestled with alcoholic demons. He did one of the most alcoholic things I've ever seen.
In my life.
He he had a fight with his own lookalike. Oh my god, I don't want to trace Atkins cruise.
That is, that's about. That's about. That's beautiful. If you pitch that though in a writer's room for a movie, I'd be like, I don't know. He's fighting with himself. He's his own worst enemy. Yeah, I mean all of it.
But Tray said, I asked him if if he had social media and he's said, no, one don't. I said, because he said, I said, you don't need to pay attention to all these people and him saying bad things, and he said, I see it.
I mean, what do you mean? He said, it takes one turd and pool for me not to get in. Do you know this story. I'll be embarrassed if I told you this when you're on my podcast. But father Greg Boyle, I think you told me this. Father Greg Boyle, who is a hero of mine and a friend and a friend. One am I a fucking spiritual name dropper and a friend? But he I mean he's a friend of the world. Really. He started Homeboy Industries here in Los Angeles. Anyway. He wrote three books and there must lessens.
One's called tattoos on the heart. One's called Bargain to the choir, and one's called the whole Language. They're all masterpieces. He tells this story that Larry David went to Yankee Stadium and it was his birthday and they announced it, and however, many tens of thousands of people are Yankee Stadium sold out game. They all stand up and sing Happy Birthday to Larry David. He's on the jumbo tron and he's waving. I'm sure you didn't love it, but also,
you know, it's got to feel pretty good. Sure to have the entire like it seems like the entire city is singing Happy Birthday. And then he goes out after the game. As Larry tells it, he's walking to his car and someone drives by and goes, hey, Larry, you suck. Yeah, And that's all he got from that night. Yeah, And there's actually some neuroscience to this. Shout out to Richard Rohrer, another beloved friend of mine and a spiritual. He's a
brilliant theologian. He talks about the velcro Teflon theory. If I say, Craig, and I mean this, you're a You're a generational talent. You're one of a kind. Who else is like you? These fucking improvised monologues your interview Scott even right here, right now, and you're writing it's incredible, like you're you're something unique and sparkly and special. We see you. If you want to hold onto that, that's teflon. You have to think about it and hold it and
focus on it. I think the time is thirty seconds, which is way longer. Yeah, you're not going and I'm not even asking you to. But if I say, I'm not going to say the mean things, because the way the mean things work is even if I don't mean them, they stink velcro. Yeah, that's fucked up.
I've heard it described as narcissism in reverse, like oh, you can to see the nag at.
The kick of what's cutting. Yeah, But I actually think there's there's theological implications here as well. I'm interested the Garden of Eden. I think all you need is the Garden of Eden, the Prodigal Son. I think you can summarize the whole thing with the Garden of Ening and the Prodigal Sun. But the Garden of Eden is really I think it's a masterpiece. Especially when you consider it's probably written in like dragonfly blood on the back of a dead deer. It's incredible.
Right in Scotland, that's kind of you know, that's what they sells tables, that's that's final draft.
But the Garden of Eden to me, and I've talked about this a lot, so forgive me if no.
Explain to me, because i haven't heard your theories on this, and I'm interested.
I think it's saying that we would rather So we're in the garden. What is that? That's unit of consciousness. That's oneness. And what's the problem with oneness? It's identity, Liss, there's no Craig in the oneness. It's perfect oneness. So God, perfect oneness, perfect wholeness, perfect peace. Not a lot of specialness going around. So there we were. Now this the
story falls apart because it's told in dualistic terms. But let's say in dualistic terms, I'm a naked man, naked meaning not dress, naked without shame, without shame, but also without identity. I don't have my red shirt, I don't have my job, I don't have my car, I don't have my opinions, my thoughts, my beliefs. It's all God, I'm naked. Then there's a woman. Then a snake comes. The snake is the ego, and the snake says, fuck this,
fuck this shit. You want to be in a fucking garden, just humming and whist the sucks eat from the tree of what good and evil? Yes and no one in zero binary duality. Let's leave oneness. And what I like about it is that we chose it. What I like about the myth is that it's not saying God didn't do it to us. He didn't kick us out. We wanted it. I think this is interesting. We as an aspect of God decided to play a little game. Let's
eat the apple. Let's have a dream, a dream of what suffering, yes, but also glory, pain, separation, but also specialness, shininess. You can be Craig Ferguson. Oh there it causes tynis. Fucking I did that to make you laugh, to be bad at the voice. But so when I say, when we're looking for that hit, we would rather be miserable and special than blissed out and vanish. This is what I'm saying.
Yes, okay, yes, And the thing that I have because I think you're right in what you're saying. But what I think is quite interesting for me is that I have changed my opinion on a lot of things in the time that I have been traveling through since my inception and birth.
So like, for example, me.
Ten years ago even says to you that is perfect, and me now says to you it is.
But I also add to you something else.
And what it is is this is that we choose it to relinquish it, to return to oz was always there, Dorothy, the return to Eden.
Can I say that's the prodigal Sun part?
Yes, yeah, yeah, that which is great. I mean, you're right, and I cut you off before the bo you didn't. No, I'm delighted you're saying the second same thing, yeah, which is the you gotta come back after Rumspringer. It's not rum Springer. If you don't go home, that's right. If it's if you stay out there, you're just a fucking junkie.
But if you go back, it was. There's the part of the Garden of Eden story I think is completely ego driven, meaning we made a God like us instead of the other way around. We made God in our image, We made him angry, We put angels with flaming swords, and we said, get the fuck out of here, and I'm gonna punish you. That's all just our own guilt. I think you could say for having left. Who knows where the guilt comes from? Original sin, isn't it? The
original sin would be like an original misunderstanding. You know what I mean. It's harmless. But even the word sin is misunderstood in contemporary usage. I agree.
You know that the idea that sin is some moral component. No, the sin is what separates you from God.
Sin, you could say, it's separation, it's it's it's it's it's sort of benign. Are you a student of Evagris of Pontus? Pardon me?
Evagriates of Pontis, a desert theologian in the third century, right, one of the Egyptian.
How did I miss them? I'm just kidding. Fabulous?
He is fabulous, a genius. He extrapolated from the theology of origin of Alexandria. He came up with what was called the eight thoughts, first characterized by the eight thoughts, and the eight thoughts were you recognize.
Them avarice, gluttony, lost right.
They became the seven deadly sins. And I think sadness was folded into sloth. But sadness was one of the eight thoughts, and the thoughts that separate you, that are they characterized them as they used to talk about them, as being demons that would separate you from God or wellness or the universe their separations, right, And the idea of the idea of sin having like you're naughty, you're or you're not naughty is much later in theology.
It's it's it's much later on. It's you know, it's the idea of See.
I think what happened to Christianity and this is my recent theory without Christianity. I'm a big fan of Christianity up until about Constantine. Then I think it starts to go south when Constantine co ops Christianity as the the official religion of the Roman Empire at that point. The equivalent today would be Starbucks opening at burning Man that you take something which is and it's already happened. It
isn't Starbucks, but it's already co opted. It's already gone because I know about it, right, So it's a I'm not saying I know about things. I mean, if I know about it. It means it's already gone. I'm the sign that it's over right.
If you see me at burning men, I guess it's the last one.
And I think that that's you know, something that was all about a thing became all about something else.
It was cool op to do it was.
And it was when there's a great line you know the movie The Great Rock and Roll Swindle. It's a kind of mock documentary Julian Temple made about the sex Pistols, and in it, Julian says to Malcolm McLaren before he gets where did you get the idea for the sex Pistols the Great Swindle?
Where did you get the idea?
And he said, when Elvis Presley joined the army. And I thought it's such a cool kind of framing of it. Yeah, but it just says Elvis was who he was the whole time. It's just that you projected at me joint in one thing. You make it a thing, yes, and then it becomes something and you that's right.
And I'm gonna Richard Rhorer can explain this much better than me, but I think it's ten thirty two is when we get like atonement theory, We start thinking of Jesus as this like I'm going to pay your check sort of stuff. It's like, oh, you're you're evil and you're twisted when you know, as father Greg Boyle points out that Jesus says you're the light of the world. He doesn't say you're the light of the world. If you could just get fewer tattoos. Craig, what are you doing?
Or stop saying fuck and shit and yes and stop playing with your dingling and all. That's like we want that though. That's what we're doing here. I have this joke. I'm working on it. It's like, my God is love. And I don't mean the emotion love. I mean like an ununderstandable yes, a spacious and simultaneously whole oneness that is beyondwards right, yes, yes, and brilliant. We can touch on it, we can reflect it here, but we can't really do much else. But I miss and I do.
When I thought God was mad at me, I really do. It was pretty fun, like thinking. I equate it to the Bourne movies, the Jason Bourne movies, like God's in the room with the computers and they're like he just he's gone rogue. He had sex send the agent swarm swarm, and I think we love that. Look at what we do. We make up teams and we fight them and we gamble and we make up money and we love it. So we don't even have to be mad at it.
But that's the prodigal son. Is your inheritance. So the prodigal son asks for his inheritance is consciousness, is awareness, is your God nature, which is looking out your eyes right now. It's it's how you're hearing me. It's everything. It's how you know reality. We can do an experiment after this. It's so fun. Anyway, He says, I'm bored at the kingdom, same as the Garden of Eden. I'm bored Basically, I want my rump shpringer. It's nice that you're a king. I want to go and do stuff.
And God says okay. The king says okay, gives him his inheritance, and then he goes in these squanders. Squanders isn't quotes, there's no judgment in the story. He just goes and kind of implies that he has some sex and.
Flesh pots of Egypt, I believe it, says.
Does it? Yeah? And he has some sex and then he ends up working with the pigs, which for a Jewish Man means the lowest of the love. That's rock bottom. But what happens was unlike the Garden of En, there are no flaming angels guard it. Flaming angels, angels with flaming stories guarding it. Spare the riff, save your career, Save your career. We all know it. Let them think it. You can't get canceled for what you let them think. Oh, I don't know about that. But what the prodigal son
does that we're all here to do. And it's not sexy. It's not that interesting. It's not achieving enlightenment, it's not washing away your sins. He just remembers he's free to go home. He remembers that Dad isn't mad. And it's the greatest story in the world. And it's not that great of a story because we would rather he goes and like an old testament's not to put down the Old Testament, but like the Father's like you can come back, we have to work for seven years in the field,
like that sort of thing. We don't do that anymore. He slaughters the fat and calf, he gives them new shoes, he gives them the best row, he puts rings on his finger. That's the story. We don't like that story. God, My God doesn't talk shit, and that's all I'm here to do. Craig you see, as fucking dumbass or whatever. And he's like, he doesn't even know who Craig is. And I mean that in the best possible one. I'm
very happy with that, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, when you stop being scared that God, we're talking about the untalkable. I can say God loves Craig in a certain way. And I can say and in the ultimate reality, God is so busy loving you and being love he doesn't even know what you are. Like, that's not exactly right, but it's so ah that it's almost offensive to us. We would rather he loved Craig, but he just it just is.
It's very, very wide and very difficult because the drive in contemporary society and does for as Americans in particular, is for the individual. Yeah, and we think of the oppice of the individual as being the hive mind or communism or occultism. And it's not that either, Yeah, it is. I think this is Moses talking about God is none shall God says to Moses, none, she'll see my face and the live.
It's not that you see me, you die. It's you can't come. It's you can't see Craig can't come, which I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm just so excited. Yeah, I say this all the time. Pete can't come. In fact, you're talking to Pete. That's one of the frustrations. In my book. I write Pete isn't enlightened, but I am, and that I thought. When I wrote that, I was like, I've done it. That's it. That's how I feel. Pete's not enlightened. I'm going around just like everybody. Whatever you
think unenlightened is. I get angry, I get horny, I get angry, all that stuff. But there is a spacious, quiet place that I can tap into and do. This is the example. Round Us says, like, if Craig Ferguson comes and sits at the right hand of God, you know what that is. Schizophrenia can't come. Craig can't come. If you think I am Jesus Christ, that's you're now unstable, right, unless you're Jesus Christ, unless you're just But if you find the part of you that isn't you, that is Jesus.
But it's hard to talk about. Here's the example. So Rupert Spiro, who's I've never met him, but he's my homeboy. He teaches non duality, which is at the core of all of this. I think is sort of what we're talking about, God being one this thing and you being that at its core. And he explains it way better than I can for those of you listening, and if
I can't quite explain this. He had wrote a book called Being Aware of Being Aware, which he'll take you about twenty minutes to read, but it'll just blow your mind. And every chapter is the same thing. He just says it a different way. It's incredible. He's also on YouTube. It's all just given away for free on YouTube. He's amazing British guy, not what you would expect to be like a teacher. He's like he looks like you know
something from Wind in the Willows. But anyway, he's incredible. Well, this isn't going to be like a massive point, but he talks about like who or what is it that is aware of your experience? That is the question when we say who am I and I heard that my whole life. The most important question you can ask is who am I? But I thought that meant like figure out Craig's peccadillos. I like coffee, I don't like tea. I like it's like you know me? P. That's not what that means. What does it mean?
Then?
Who am I? Behind? What is essential to your identity? Because when you were a child, maybe you didn't like coffee. Now you do. So everything's changing. You were talking about your opinions, changing your body, changes your location, change. All this stuff isn't essential to you. So what's essential to you? Not your thoughts or your feelings, but change.
Change is the law of God's mind, and resistance to it is the source of all pain.
I like that. Who said that me? When did you say it? Right? Now? That now is? It's a new now without explaining it. He talks about the knowing that you are. So when you I used to do a joke like this, I was like sing happy birthday in your head? How are you hearing that? That's your awareness? Are you your thoughts? Are you the spacious field in which they appear? You must never do acid? I love it? Really, no, no, I haven't done acid in a long time, but I
have done it. I would think it would be bad for you. Really not in my experience.
Did you do it combine it with guinness? No, No, that's what I did. That's probably where I ran along. Alcohol and acids are a very bad combination.
He talks about the knowing part of you, the part that knows. So I see that and something we never talk about it. Something knows what it sees and interprets it. So he talks about that being like the screen of a movie that isn't colored or changed by what happens on the movie. So identify with the screen, with that knowing presence. So the thing that I was going to do with you is if you close your eyes. You
just did. I just watched them both minds. If you close your eyes and get in touch with the like it's going to be hard for me to do because I'm talking, But if you get in touch with the tingly sensation, imagine that you're a newborn baby, okay, no past, this is your first moment, so you don't know you have a body. Okay, and now I'm going to talk to you like you have a body. Get in touch with the put your attention on the tingly sensation of your mouth, like that you have a mouth and just
feel it. You can kind of m hmm. This is a phenomenon that we should be talking about all the time. You can kind of spotlight your awareness and put it on your lips, in your mouth, and because you have nerve endings there, you can feel it. H And you can ask yourself where does that sensation show up? And because you don't know anything, you'd go, well, it shows up here? Right, There's no place. It's just like I
feel it here. But then if we say, now, feel your hands, you and I both know that your hands aren't near your eyes or open you. I mean you love it, I do. Your hands are far from your mouth right right. But when you close your eyes and you just point your awareness to the tingly sensation in your hands, where does that sensation show up? Also here there's no distance between your mouth and your hands. You could do with your feet as well. Also here a distant sound, where does that show up in you?
Here?
It's like you're a piece of paper and everything's written on that piece of paper and you're the paper.
I find that quite anxiety provoking.
What you're tell me why.
I'm not entirely sure, I think because it probably it feeds into me an idea of when I was struggling with alcohol and come out from, you know, trying to get off of it. I would experience disassociation, fair great amounts of panic and lack of physical context with where I was in the world.
And it reminds me of that, Greg, You're not nuts. Most nights. If I get up to pee and I'm vulnerable, sometimes these thoughts occur to me as well. And what's happening I'm not saying to you. What's happening to me is this resistance again that goes back to like, no, no, I want to I want to be a body in hands and it helps me know and you start to freak out until and I haven't. I'm not fully cooked until you start to trust of what you are a part of and know that to be a loving and say, father,
that's the prodigal son again. We're we're both prodigal sons. We're with the pigs, and we know that our hands and our lips are showing up here and everything is made of awareness. Touch the table and I feel that here it's all here and we're still not quite ready to go home. No, not yet. That's what we're doing here. Here's the good news, big fucking deal. It's okay. So do you have a special coming up? And it's filled with hand job jokes and Joe, you know what's so
weird about v Van. I enjoyed talking about this with you, and I certainly don't have any of it figured out. But here we are promoting my Netflix ten twenty four on Netflix. It's called I Am Not for Everyone.
You should have called it flesh Posts of Egypt.
Flesh pots of Egypt. Yeah, as the prodigal son.
No, it's flesh posts Vidu die I just as we talked about it, and I remember that line, flesh posts of Egypt.
Does it mean vagina? Probably, yeah, but it could not mean that. Josea three to eight is my favorite Bible verse, and it's talking to the prophet Josea. I goes and he's talking to I don't know who he's talking to, but it's God and he says, go show love to your wife or something like the Lord your God shows love to the Israelites though they turned to false gods and love the sacred Raisin cakes. Oh wow, I'm like, what the fucker's sacred raising cakes? I give it a Google.
I think it means anal doesn't some scholars say it means but stuff. Well, you know, there's a.
Bit of that around even back then.
There was there was, but people loved it.
Do you know what I like in the Bible is that Well there's quite a lot of it I like, and quite a lot of it.
I'm like, I don't know where you're coming from with this.
But yeah, but there's a line in it that I think Solomon said it, who was apparently a bit of a wise ass. He said none suffers like he who tarries.
Too long at the wine.
And I'm like, yeah, fuck, I hear you, Solomon.
Yeah, I hear you, buddy, you tarried a little too long, Sally, I hear you.
All right, Uh, it's always a trip?
Am I leaving you freaked out?
No, I'm going to have this exact same con conversation with Jaylan on this afternoon's a that's the Bible?
Are aware? The funny chin