Constance Zimmer

The Craig Ferguson Pants on Fire Tour is on sale now. It's a new show, it's new material, but I'm afraid it's still only me, Craig Ferguson on my own, standing on a stage telling comedy words. Come and see me, buy tickets, bring your loved ones, or don't come and see me. Don't buy tickets and don't bring your loved ones. I'm not your dad. You come or don't come, but you should at least know what's happening, and it is. The tour kicks off late September and goes through the

My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy.

I talk to interest in people about what brings them happiness on the podcast today is one of my favorite actresses in the world and also one of the best people I've met in Hollywood.

I know that's a low bar.

But she's she really is a lovely person and very clever, and you'll know exactly what I'm.

Talking about when I say it is Constance Zimmer.

I think that the fact that you look exactly the same as the last time I saw you, which has gotta be seven years or something, Oh.

My god, that's just terrifying that it's been saying.

Well, what's terrifying is you look exactly the same, which makes me think you're probably getting collagen or bat blood injections or something.

Or no, I wish I haven't done anything. I'm going to try and hold out for as long as possible.

Do whatever you're doing. It's working, That's what I'm saying. You look great. It's really it's really a thing.

If I could just carry this light around with me wherever I went, that would probably.

Ah. The lighting is key, I mean beyond the age of like thirty five, lighting is key. So when you get to thirty five, you're going to have to start thinking about all of that how I went into the show business that you're still in.

Mos I am. I'm hanging on by a thread though.

I feel like, you know, the last four years have been really fucking rough.

It's really weird, right, I mean, I don't understand what the fuck is going on with it at all. I've been following this guy on Instagram, don't know if you know me.

I think he's handled his producer Patrick.

I've heard, yeah, I've heard about it.

Right, And he's fascinating because he's just like he's stayed up on it all the time. It's like show business isn't free fall basically the way that I understand it and the way that I think because you're I mean, you're a lot younger than me, obviously, but we're kind.

Of a lot a lot.

Younger obviously, but we were running the same time with like Sitcom in the nineties and like right up through twenty fifty ish. Really yeah, and then it's just it's in free fall because of no one knows what to do, right am I right?

Yes, you're right.

I mean, look, I think COVID was one thing, right, and then I think the strike was another, and both strikes, writers strike, actors strike, right, like, everybody is scrambling to make up for the lost time. And so I think the lost time and the lack of money and the reality that like streaming platforms were not bringing in money,

I haven't even heard. That was the constricting thing. Like everything's getting.

Yeah, everything's small everything's getting smaller. So it's why like companies are folding under companies. So like you have an ABC signature which is now under Fox. You know, you have everything is going back to like one place instead of one place having ten options, right, And so with that, you have people getting fired, losing their jobs after thirty years. You have the lack of jobs for actors, writers, directors.

So if you look.

At that, you go, oh, well, then there's no surprise that all of us are in a free fall and wondering, well, how the fuck do we come back from that? Sorry, pardon my language.

No, you could say fuck. In fact, I kind of like it when you do. It makes me feel like I'm talking to someone who has an authentic voice and is in no way under the threat from the man. I I wonder, have you started doing that, like like what I'm doing now, Like I'm working for an evil corporation called iHeart on this this podcast right now. But you know, I'll probably get fired from that or they'll

Well I'm so.

I you know, I had a podcast in twenty eighteen, maybe twenty nineteen. Look, I don't even remember when the fuck it was, but it was. I had it for like a year, and it was I just I couldn't take it.

It was so much work.

But it was the kind where we went into a place and we brought people into was studio, and it was a whole setup. It wasn't, you know, like from a chair in your library, right, It.

Wasn't how dare you? How dare you? No? I get it. I mean.

It's It's an interesting thing though, because it feels to me that the model that's beginning to emerge out of the mist it reminds me of the late nineties early two thousands independent film where you had to go and

Sure, well, you know, I played a studio ahead on television, so that's crazy.

I'm a great at it too.

I kind of assume that I'm already in that position. Are you?

Did you write rebooting on Tarajia? You're going to do it again?

Is that a thing? Or is a rumor?

They have been trying to reboot that show for years, and I'm not quite sure how you do it unless you completely flip the narrative and you place it in today's times and you make DANEA. Gordon the lead of the show and you show how women are running the industry and how the men are trying to get back in and become relevant.

Is what's happening.

That's what I'd like to believe is happening.

I mean, there's so many more females in charge and be studios than ever before. That is true, definitely, they were not that many when we were doing Entourage. So but look, I mean, those characters are iconic, and you know, there's a whole new Entourage following because of streaming and then putting out all of the seasons, you know, during COVID, and so there's a whole new generation of fans, which has been crazy because that show is twenty years old.

Shut up, is it really? Yes?

Yeah, that's really right doing the two things that age you are at other people's kids and other people's TV shows.

My god, I know, and I mean the show that I that I and again I didn't just do it, but the show Unreal that I was on.

That was a great show. By the way, I was going to talk about that, because that really is a great show.

Well, you're very kind, but it's that is on Netflix now, right that show. We premiered that show ten years ago.

Next year. Wow, and so I'm really excited.

That's the one thing where I'm like, Wow, this is amazing that you can have a show that is now again an entire new audience, an entire new fan base watching it. Except I'm constantly reminding people like, we dropped that ten years ago, so I don't know how offensive it's going to be today.

I have that from Late Night because I stopped doing Late Night ten years ago next month. Stopped doing it ten years ago next month. And you know, people like I have kids calling them stand up shows who are like in their early twenties. Meant, when he's in there watching online, they never saw it ever go out, and they're like, how do you get away with saying that?

I said, I don't I said it. I said it fifteen years ago. That's how I got away with saying it. It was like because the attitudes have changed so much.

I mean, authorized, I think in particular probably suffers a great deal from that because it was very much in that kind of lad culture, wasn't it, And it kind of like the zeitguy shifted hard in a different direction. It's kind of It's an odd thing though, because you when I look back at some of this stuff I.

Did in late night.

I'm like, I don't know if I would do that now, But there was stuff that even in late night would I would think, I'm not going to do that now. I mean, things change. I think that you can you can overthink it. It's like when Friends came back on on Netflix and people were like, you know, people loved it, but they had this whole kind of problem with certain aspects of it, which I remember people have it at the time as well.

But let's like, I mean, this is the one thing that I'm constantly trying to remember is that it shows that we've progressed. It shows that we've changed, we've grown, and so we cannot fault anybody or anything about something that was okay. You know twenty years ago that's not okay. Now Let's instead say, oh, this is great. We have come this far and we've grown, and we know now

I mean, it's cool.

Also, it also comes and goes.

I mean it changes that the people this kind of the backlash thing about people saying, you know, is there you can't have some you know, it's all too woke, and you go, well, it's not.

It's not too bad to question yourself about what you do.

I think it's I think it's all right to question yourself and go, is this I mean, I had this thing. Did you ever meet Peter Lasally who was my boss and late night?

I'm sure I did because I did your show and so yeah, I think I.

Did you good.

Yeah.

Peter.

Peter was he was like Johnny Carson's producer for thirty five years, and he was and he produced Letterman and stuff, so he was like the guru of late night TV. And whenever I was, particularly early on, if I had a kind of a particularly salty joke that I wanted to do on the show, he would say, it's.

Not worth it. It's not worth it.

There's always another joke, and you're just going to make people mad and you're going to And I kind of feel that way.

Now.

I heard are you familiar with a comedian called Anthony jessel Nick? Yes, who I am a big fan of him. He says he does the most awful material, but he does it in a very clever way. And he I saw him discussing it and he said, he quoted Warhol as like, are is what you get away with? And he said, if you're not getting away with it, people are angry at you, then you haven't done it properly.

You know, you haven't managed to slip it in.

You haven't managed to couch it in such a way where you can say something awful or say something regrettable, or portray a character.

Who actually talks like that.

I mean, you know what, the characters that were in authorized, these guys exist, right, you know.

I mean they're in Hollywood.

They're probably less of them now, but but they are still there.

Oh no, they're still there.

Yeah.

I haven't been Hollywood in a while.

Yeah.

I mean, do you feel like like that at the time, because obviously not everyone is like you?

Guy, You're not Dana. You know, you're not you know, you don't run a reality show.

You you know, Anthony Hopkins is not a serial killer who eats people.

I mean, you're playing a character.

So at what point do you have to sanitize the art to make it okay? For common sensibilities, even if you're portraying someone who's not sympathetic or doesn't have sympathetic qualities.

Yeah, you know, I think this has always been a discussion, especially now because as actors, we are paid to play characters that aren't aren't.

Like us, right, unless you are.

I mean, you could look at Julia robertson Pretty Woman and everyone would say, oh, no, but that's exactly who she's like. She's not a prostitute, but she feels like she has that similar personality. No, it's not, it's like and so I think, you know, whenever people meet me one, they are always surprised that I'm nice, always surprised that I'm not an evil bitch because those are the characters I play on television, or they think that I actually

Right, unless unless the character is Scottish.

That doesn't matter, theller like anyone can.

Just get an old chair, put a ball of whiskey on.

It doesn't matter, fine, you know.

And so I think I get it, and I understand it, and I think, again, there's a balance, right, there's.

Well maybe, but I also think that it's kind of

Because it's right, it can happen all the time.

I mean, and I know in one of your episodes of your podcast, you were saying you were talking about meeting your your heroes or meeting the people you know that you've looked up to, and how sometimes you get disappointed and that's really tough, and that's happened to all of us. But again, I think it's because entertainers and artists, whether you're a writer, director, or actor, anything, everybody is held up to a standard, whether you present as that

Another layer that everyone's adding.

You know, everyone's adding that like my life is amazing, and uh, it's it's tough, man, I can't. The whole social media part of being a person in the public eye is really daunting. And I think it's really hurting a lot of people. And and and I also mean, you know, the people who come up in social media where it's their job, sure, you know, to be a social media influencer, it's a lot.

It's just a lot that we're all tearing.

It's also it's kind of uh, it's relentless, it's unrealistic.

And also it removes the role.

Like when I was doing Late Night particularly, I use this because I had one of the greatest.

Producers that ever worked in television.

It was Peter Sally, and I had so many ideas that he, as a producer, would say, you know, that's maybe not such a great idea. And I didn't do a thing that I thought this will be a thing. And I mean, I think that the role of the producer a lot of time, particularly in the artistic sense, was to perhaps temper the enthusiasm of the talent so it was palatable, rather than just throwing it out there on filter.

But I feel like, because I.

Wrestled with the social media thing as well, I don't want to do it. I certainly don't want to scroll through other people's stuff, but I feel like I'm duty bound as a member of society, and particularly in the business I'm into. Like people say you have to contact your fans, and I don't. First of all, the idea of having fans. I think that's sports teams have fans. I think, you know, performers have people who enjoy what they do, right, maybe Taylor Swift has fans.

I get it. But yeah, have you been to see Taylor Swift a daughter? Right?

I do?

She's sixteen. But no, we didn't get into the whole swifty.

Of it all.

All right, just wonder if I mean I appreciate her.

I think that what she is doing for young women is incredible. I'm but we never went to the concerts and we didn't get into the whole brain size.

I never connected with that either. But we'll see this having listened, I mean, she's the real deal. She's a dully parting level songwriter. I mean, she can really do the job. And I think that that I kind of love that at least someone who's that talented and clearly that discipline then clearly works at it and tries and puts the effort and it's held up as an example rather than you know, I don't know someone who doesn't try or it was just lucky, because I don't think

Yeah, Oh no, she works her ass off.

I mean I think that's obvious, and yeah, it's it's very impressive, especially when you're constantly reminded at how young she is and how long she's been doing it, and she still has an incredible head on her shoulders.

So it's very impressive because you know what it's like. I mean, you've seen it, you've had it. I've had it too. It's like you get a bit of fame in it. It's it's weird what it does to your head a lot. I was surprised that much fucked with me a little bit because.

How did it fuck with you? In what way?

I felt? I think I got paranoid.

And I think what it was is not because people were recognizing me all the time. It was because I thought they were recognizing me all the time. So any kind of like if you make eye contact with someone randomly on public transport or in a coffee shop or in a store and you're like, oh fuck, they they know me, or they're going to come over, or that.

It just made me feel very strange.

And I find myself walking around whearing hat and not quite a false s beard, but nearly a false spard in a hat, and you know, maybe a home, you know, just something to you know, remove any I mean, it wasn't that, but it was never that bad because I didn't have that level of fame. But there was a point right about when Late Night was really pumping, maybe like twenty twelve something like that, it was really intense.

It's like, well, look can you read that? It says it says, I don't know who you are. It's like a piece of art that my sister got for me because the running joke and my household people that know me is nobody ever can pinpoint who I am or why they know me. So and it's everything I ever wanted from my career is I wanted to be a working actor, but I.

Wanted to have my life.

And you know, I was just going to New York the other day and there was a guy behind me and he said, you're that actress, aren't you?

And my friend, my friend was with me, and she goes.

Yeah, she's that actress, that one.

You know.

It's like that's what I get. And it's a constant like why do I know you? I know you don't I I know your voice? Wait, what is that show you were on, and I'm like, seriously, I'm hmm, well, let's see you this your this is your age bracket.

You know?

She's like, yes, that's it. Like okay, so I stopped guessing. I've stopped trying to get you very good.

I don't do it like if people say to me or you that guy, I'm like, no that I get out all the time and I move on.

I used to do that, but I think after like the five hundredth time, I just it gets difficult because they're still right here and they're still looking at you, and then they're picking up their phone and they're like trying, you know, and so it becomes more that I would rather just nip it in the bud and just say you know what I mean. But so for me, it's it's never been. I get excited when someone can put two and two together.

I think that it's a funny kind of thing for a night too, because you're a proper actor, like you know, American Academy at Dramatic Art and plays and proper acting and like a proper actor. And I think fame for actors it's kind of especially contemporary fame works against you. Like I was talking to Kevin Bacon a while back, and he was saying that he was doing some show where he worked really hard on it and the studio.

We're saying, could he life tweet it? What was going on?

He said, that's the fucking opposite of what I'm trying to do as an actor. I'm trying to get you to believe that I know Kevin Bacon and at the same time saying, oh, I remember we were filming this day and it was so cold, which takes you out of the thing that you're trying to put yourself into. So weird kind of push pull a little bit, because you've got to have the social media if you're going to have the job.

Right.

Yeah, I think it's time for you to It's really the only thing really you have to do is you have to create your own content.

This is what I'm leading up to.

Well, look and I am.

I mean, I have a podcast right now that we're pitching because I have like my partner who is like my writing partner, my producing partner, my content partner. And she is a woman that I met four years ago during COVID. She was the writer creator of this show and I was attached as the star. And so we met for the first time over zoom and I remember I had to go meet her outside in her backyard because it was COVID and we couldn't be close to

And so she is like, I'm the TV version of her.

She is the characters I play on television, right And she's ten years older than me, and she's.

Badass and like I go to her for everything.

And so we decided that we wanted to do a podcast together to help get women through midlife essentially, and.

We're right now trying to pitch that.

But again, podcast community constricting as well. It's so saturated to it's so many and because of what you're saying. Everybody's like, I have to create my own content, you know, I've got to.

I mean, for me, the.

Biggest problem in the business right now is that women there's no parts for women essentially fifty to sixty. So like a woman in her fifties is invisible, invisible to everyone and anything. You know, we go through an insane hormonal change, we go through paramenopause and menopause, and we're like, what the fuck is going on?

And who are we? And what are we?

And you know, more women leave the marketplace in their fifties than any age group, And it's insane to think that.

Right now.

We are in a time where generation acts, right, So anyone forty five to sixty is saying no, like not any fucking more.

Like you have some of.

Your favorite actresses that are all in their fifties right now. You have Halle Berry, Naomi Watts, I don't know if Drew is in her fifties, Drew Barrymorecelma Hayek, Ava Longoria, Tracy Ellis, Ross, Gabriel Union, Garcels, Constant Zimmer, and those are all women that are like, what the fuck what happened? Like, where are the roles that are representing women in their fifties. If they can't be played by women in their fifties, oh,

For God's sakes, you know, Yeah, there's.

Too many podcasts. I think I'm probably going to stop doing this one really.

Yeah. Probably, I'll do it for a little bit longer, but you know me, I'm a quitter. I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I think I'll try something else.

Well, So what I want to ask you about, though, speaking of quitting, is why you went and tried Scotland right for a while.

And yeah, and now you're in New York.

Yeah, I'm back. I'm back in the East Coast. I'm in New England.

Actually I'm in New York some of the time, but I moved back to New England. I was in Scotland for about like just before the pandemic and I was there all through the Panetic back for about five or five years. I think I was back and I really liked it Ana, and I was kind of like, my kids are American, my wife is an American, my life is American, I'm an American. I've been an American citizen for a long time as well, and it just it felt like I was no aw in a weird way.

It was like I had to go back to America.

Right, But did you find that like you.

Liked being in Europe essentially, like not being in the States, Like I feel like that's my goal is to leave, Like I want to leave LA and I would like to Well that I.

Did want to I would not go back to LA.

But yeah, but I think that what happened is that, you know, it was the weirdest thing we Megan and I, my wife and I were watching during the lockdown. We were watching Ozark, right, and Ozark this dark, you know, awful things happening in this terrible but it was say in the heat of the Ozarks, and we were both watching this terribly dark show.

Gone, I really want to go home, which.

Is probably not what you know the creators had in mind for the show. But we were like, oh, yeah, this looks much more fun. And then and it kind of that and then watching show have you watched The The Righteous Gemstones, dynam McBride's thing, yes, which which is I think his I love Dyna McBride's work, and I think this is his opus.

I just it's such a masterpiece of.

You know, of a of a million different types of comedy, but very American and I and I really it really made me nostalgic for Americas now because people like that only exist in the United States, and I really subscribe to the notion of being amongst them and.

Maybe even one of them, you know, just like.

But do you You don't find those people in New England though, do you?

Oh? Sure you do? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, They're all over.

It's not in New York you find everything. I mean, And I think that it's funny because I think of you as an East Coaster, but you know it, right, you're from the West Coast, right.

I am from the West Coast. Yeah, but I mean I feel like I'm an East Coaster as well.

It's just yeah, yeah, you have an East Coast boys, yes, you know, you.

Said an abrasive.

Yeah, And funny and interesting and charming. That's all of that to me is New York City, you know. I mean it feels like that. So would you think he would move to New York.

Then, yeah, I would definitely. We used to live in New York. We did like a bi coastal thing for about six years when our daughter was young. And I want to do like a little place in New York and then like a house in Europe so that the weather is bad in New York it's either too cold or too hot or whatever, then we can just go to Europe and be there and just I don't know, well, if.

It's for weather or may I suggest Scotland is not the place for you. If it's about you know, you're you're from the Pacific Northwest, is am I right? I remember this Seattle, right, So you know what it's like to live under dark and rain all the time.

I don't want that. I don't want that for me.

It's not for me either. And I got sick of that too. I was like, there's got to be at least one nice day in the summer.

There has to be.

Yeah, the gray is too much. I mean, there's a reason why they made those lights. You know they have those, They're called sad lights and it's for like you know, if you have lad.

I was using it in Scotland. I used to have to go.

I would do this thing when I was in Scotland and I was living there, Like in the winter, I would go for a run on a treadmill. I would have a sad light on and I would put on the TV with like screensaver of like Santa Monica or something, and I thought, this is this is this is stupid, this is this is like there's no need to do this. But you know, there's a lot of side love about it. I'm from there, but I feel I'm American. I'm just

Plenty, but I'm part of this. You know, this is this is my thing.

And you're now on tour as well, right, yeah, I just well see that's my way of fighting what's going on in the industry as well.

And I was aware of that when I started doing Late Night.

Start.

I hadn't done stand up for about ten years, but when I started doing Late Night, I thought, because the deal I made with CBS at the time is they pretty much owned me. You know what these deals are like, I couldn't do any other television. I can do it unless I got their permission. But the one thing they didn't have was live stuff. They didn't own me. For live stuff, I could go and go back to do

And that's why I.

Think that you should Constance be working on your stand up act this time you start doing some open mics.

I mean, I have thought about it.

I've thought about it for years, and I think I would get in so much trouble because my filter is not good.

That trouble, you know.

I think what you're describing is a three special deal at Netflix. You don't have to have a filter. The audience is the filter. If they this whole fucking thing that you have to, you know, watch what you say, don't fuck that, let them watch what you say.

If someone doesn't like what you say, they don't need to watch you. And I think you're.

A highly entertaining person with a very odd mind, and I think I'd love.

To see you do that stuff.

I think it it would be an addition to I was going to see the stand up community. But there's no such thing as a stand up community. That's a fucking pack of lies. That's like the cat community. Cats are fucking social, and stand ups to pretend to be social, I think are just lying.

Well, I mean, and also the stand up community has changed, I mean like night and day right. I mean, it's a lot of people are scared, you know, and that's not what stand up has been or should be. It is that space where you should be able to say, this is my shit, I'm going to put it out here,

That's always been the case. People always get angry and stand ups. But I think that I think the idea. Look, I think it's kind of like like the way I always felt about show business in general and particularly in Hollywood, which is only dangerous if you take it seriously. It's a stupid job. And you know, for a performer, I'm not talking about people who do actual work like you know, do things like you know, like make stuff or or

Well, I mean, you know, it's this is my problem too. It's like we've lost the creatives. No longer have the loudest voice. It's what you're saying. The executives and the corporations and the people that aren't the creatives have the louder voice, and they are the ones that decide what it is entertainment or And it's hard. It's really hard

Right? No, what he ever wants to feel like they're alone.

They're the only person that feels that way, looks that way, talks that way, right.

Right.

So if we're creating a business now that feels very like not it's not monotonous, it's like, uh, what's the what's the no? But it's like it's more like it's safe. Oh yes, right, it's what is that? I don't even know what the fucking word is, but uh, it's just for me. I'm I hope that when the business comes back, it goes back to the creative. And you know, with AI and all this stuff, you know AI not being able to be creative. It can only make content out

So leave that to the creatives.

Let us be the originator, let us be original, Let us have a voice that you haven't seen twenty times over, like the reboots, like constantly remaking the same show that we've already seen, the voices we've already heard that.

You know. That to me is like what we already did that? Like, come on, you.

Know It's it's quite interesting because that's a sure sign that the fucking mediocrity is in charge when they start saying, you know, the mediocrity.

Yeah.

Word.

It's funny though, because.

There are sometimes I see reboots and I delighted to see them.

I don't know that there's that many.

I think a reboot is kind of like you know that the night drive to Vegas, that you think it's been a great idea and then you get like an hour and and you're like, this was a really fucking stupid thing to do, and I wish we'd stayed at home. And I think that I think there's a bit of that you talked about the AIDOL, which I find fascinating because it can't create original content, but it can take your image, and it can take your image and put it on anything it wants, which I find.

I don't want to say it, yeah, alarming.

I think I'm alarmed by I think that's the kind of sinister thing that it can make you say things you didn't say.

Yep, oh, I know. And we've already seen it all. We've seen it everywhere.

I mean Tom Hanks, right, he's been the biggest Yeah, the one.

I mean, I can't.

I just again, it's like, don't even get me started about what people think they can get away with.

That's my most confusing thing where I'm like.

How did somebody honestly think you could put that out without consent, use this person's face, put words in their mouth and they would be okay with it?

What?

What rock are you living under? I don't this is this shit I don't get at all.

Well, it's it's interesting because I don't think. I don't think people think beyond that. I mean, I have this, I have this theory that no one, very few people anyway, are the villain of their own story. Everyone's the hero of their own sting and consider themselves the hero of their own story and think of themselves in that. And very few people out me in life. I hope that I'm one of them. I think that I'm one of them.

Right, Yeah, well it's narcissist, right.

I think so.

I mean it's a it's a it's a slightly overused word, I think, narcissist. But but but you're right, I think it is that. I think it is that that strange kind of you know, insular thought or this belongs to me because I I had this thought.

And that's not because.

Because you're a public figure, right yeah, right.

Yeah, And I think that that's the idea. I've got a friend, a guy called doctor Kevin Fitzgerald and Kevin is a standout comedian, but he is also a large animal fact and he is an expert on rattlesnakes and polar bears and all sorts of crazy gritters, and he's trying to help animals right now. I love this idea. He's part of a group that are lobbying Congress to

In the wild because it belongs to them.

And I think, but does it have to be is it real or is it even if it's a.

Question just the reproduction, it's the design. The design belongs to the so it's not fur, it's the you know, the design of a zebra's skin belongs to the zebra, so you must you know, if you have zebra skin furniture, which I know you have a great deal of, then that you had that part of the purchase price of that is for or the animal that you ripped off the image of. And I kind of quite like that, And I wonder if there's a like if you take my face and put me in a kind of sexy video.

I don't know. I have to look like I'm in shape. I don't want anything, you know.

Well, I mean I think that we actors get that, right, I mean, don't we get that if they're using our image, we are paid for it, right, it's not just taken.

But I get it wrong. I don't. I think that's right. But I'm not sure.

I mean, the image ry because the gray area is this if you take I take a photograph of you, just a photograph of you, I can animate it through AI to make it say things and do things and behave in a way.

Which, yeah, this would be This would be the thing.

What if the AI photograph of you was a bad actor that would really.

Piss you off?

That would piss me off the yet.

Right, And that's that's that's the thing.

Yeah.

Because I did with chat GBT, I did this thing where I thought this would be a great way to write material quickly. So I said, write me fifteen minutes of stand up comedy in the style of Craig Ferguson, and it gave me my it's worst piece of shit I've ever and I felt, either I'm a really shun comedian and chat GPT is the first person that's ever had the guts to tell me, or they just you know, they don't have it.

And I think that might be. I'm hoping it's the second one.

That there's something about there's a spark of the divine and human creativity that I don't care who your fucking computer is, I don't think it can do that.

Cannot it cannot? I mean, that's that's what we have.

That's all we have as our value is that it cannot. It cannot create original creative content, right, it can't.

Like it's it can do a reboot.

Yeah, it can do a reboot exactly, but this is my point, Like, yes, it can create mediocrity, you know, So it's everybody loves mediocrity.

People don't like to be challenged.

Yeah, here's the thing.

I think I almost one hundred percent agree with you, but I think I think not everybody loves medio.

Okay, ninety nine point eight percent.

Well fuck those people, because the people I'm interested in and this is why I'll never play giant auditoriums because I'd rather do what I want to do, you know, I'd rather do it, you know. But there is there's a reality to it as well. I mean, you know, I remember people into me. You know, why would you do a game show? I'd like, do you know how

Why, yeah, you know i'd like a new car. Well, I mean it's like I love that that is what

Yeah, I mean, I.

Think it's so few of them that exist on that realm. And so I'm always always surprised when people are like, oh, it's so interesting. You know, you were on four shows last year, And I'm like, yeah, because when people say they would like me to play a part, I say yes because I'm not in a position to say no, not today, you know, And I think that that is just something that follows us.

They just I know, they I remember, you know, I've said this before, but people say, and you know, they would say when you do a red carpet thing or some of that, and someone will say what attracted you to this role? And You're like, well, yeah, you can't say that though. You have to say, well, the script. It's always the script and all that. And I go, well, you know, because I'll tell.

You the truth. Here's what I read of the script.

My lines bullship bullshit bullshit, my line bush and bush of bullshit, my line I commend I'll be done by three o'clock.

I'll take it, you know.

And now I imagine a real actor like you probably reads the whole script but there is an element of you have to look at the financial realities. It's not a great job, it's not a great part, but it'll be okay. And I like the guy who is in charge of props on that show, so it'll be fine. And I think people forget that element too, is like, oh, the guy who does one of the producers of the show as a friend of mine, so I'll do it even although I don't really you know that kind of thing.

Too, right, right, we all still do favors for people. I mean, you know I have to, Yeah, you have to. But I think too that's the bummer as well, is that the most creatively fulfilling parts and jobs pay.

The least amount of money.

You always yeah, so you know, because you're doing it for the love of the craft.

You aren't doing it for a paycheck.

So a lot of times the job that are not as fulfilling are for a paycheck to pay your bills. And that's for me, you know, has always been the struggle because I'd like to stay in this business. I'm very grateful for the work I've done, the people I've worked with, I mean, most of all of my friends I have met through what I've done essentially, and you know, but I'm also a little disheartened by it. And so there is this like, I'm in my fifties, and do I want to stay being disappointed by it? Do I

Right? Like better roles for women?

Yes? Of course? Can I do that because those are the people I play? I hope, because then people look at me already as like, oh, you're the woman who kicks ass and who you know tells people like it is. And I'm like, yeah, those are the characters, you know.

Me doing that is.

Constant a little bit tougher because I'm I'm not I'm not as confident that I can make a change, but I'm gonna fucking try.

If I wouldn't underestimate yourself there, right, I think I have a great deal of faith that you'll be able to carve a path through this uh area of turbulence.

I think you'd be all right. This has been It's been so lovely to catch up with you.

I'm so delighted to talk to you and and and just hear your voice and talk to you again.

It's nice.

You're such a lovely person. Let move east, come come eat.

I want to we will, and we've got two more years.

Our daughter is a junior in high school, and it's exactly.

I've been exactly where you are. I know exactly the thing.

So I'm gonna let We'll let her finish high school because she loves it, and uh, and then we'll go east, hopefully.

She said to me the other day.

She was like, Mom, it's not every teenage kids dream that where they go to college, their parents follow them.

I said, that's not my dream either.

We told you, we told you three years ago that we were going to move to New York when you.

Graduate high school.

So if you happen to go to school in New York, then you're following us.

It's a big fucking city.

There's plenty of room for moms and dads and kids only exactly exactly. All right, take care of yourself. It's lovely to talk.

Well, thank you. It was so nice to see you too.

I mean lovely to see you. And give my regards to show business.

I will if they ever call me, go bye bye bye. One or two po