¶ Overcoming Adversity Through Wilderness Meditation
Around 1650 AD , the Adena , hopewell and Fort Ancient Native American cultures built mounds and enclosures in the Ohio River Valley for burial , religious and , occasionally , defensive purposes . They often built their mounds on high cliffs or bluffs for dramatic effect , or in the fertile river valleys .
My guest today , mike Martin , once spent time on a mound and had an experience that has helped shape who he is . Get ready for some wilderness meditation with Mike Martin . Welcome to Journey with Jake . This is a podcast about adventure and how , through our adventures , we can overcome the challenges of life that come our way .
While I expect you will learn some things about different adventures , this show will entertain you . Each episode will feature different guests or guests as they share experiences and stories from the different adventures they have been on .
Not only will you be entertained , but you'll also hear the failures and trials each guest faces and what they have done or are doing to overcome the hardships that come their way . My goal is to take each of us on a journey through the experiences of my guests , with the hope that you'll be entertained and inspired to overcome your day-to-day challenges .
After all , it's not all about the destination as it is about the journey . Welcome back to the show . My name is Jake Bushman and I am the host of Journey with Jake , and I am thrilled you are here . We are on episode 120 today and I can't tell you how awesome it is to have the chance to speak with such great guests week after week .
This is such a blessing in my life and as you listen each week , I hope you can relate to these guests like I do . Before we jump into my conversation with Mike Martin , be sure to subscribe to the podcast and if you would be so kind to leave a rating and review , that would be fantastic .
That helps me get the word out about Journey with Jake and hopefully others can find the show . If you are not following me on social media , get on Instagram and give me a follow . My handle is at Journey with Jake podcast and this is a great way to get some sneak peeks of the upcoming episodes and a way to get to know the personal side of yours truly .
I am also putting my shows on YouTube now , so check out Journey with Jake podcast on YouTube if you want to watch the episode . I'm excited for you to hear my conversation with Mike Martin . Mike runs Project Mindfully Outdoors , with the mission of guiding people to mindfulness .
Through hiking , fishing and camping , mike promotes personal growth and spiritual connection with nature , which in turn leads to a more mindful mindset and daily life . If you like this episode , you will also love one of my first episodes , episode number five , with Skylar Harrison about hunting and the outdoors . Okay , let's get to my conversation with Mike Martin .
Well , I'm excited today because I have Mike Martin on the show . Mike , welcome to Journey with Jake .
Jake , thanks for having me . I'm looking forward to this conversation for days now .
Excellent . Well , I'm excited . I love the background For those who are watching on YouTube . There he is with the wilderness behind him . We're going to talk wilderness and all kinds of things with that .
Before we do that , though , mike , I always like to know a little bit about who you are , so , if you don't mind , kind of just a little background of kind of where you're from , where you grew up , that sort of thing , and then we'll jump into it .
I'm from the metro Detroit area of Michigan , actually over here by almost by the thumb the lower part of the middle .
What I do nowadays is I'm a wilderness meditation guide and the things that I've had to learn in order to grow , and I've built this little system that I help other people to achieve the same sort of things in their life by getting out into nature , building that connection , not only physically touching the grass , as people say nowadays , but truly putting your
heart into building a relationship with the world around us . For me , that journey began when I was homeless after my second divorce and a blotched suicide attempt . So it was a dark start for me , but the journey after that turbulent storm has become a lifestyle of abundance and absolute beauty .
Celebration is one of the terms that I love to to tag to that okay , so I've got right off the bat .
I got a few questions . So you had you went through a divorce . You said your second divorce , a botched suicide attempt . What was going , what , yeah , what was going on in your life at this time ? And this was before this wilderness meditation came about . Right , am I timeline okay there ?
It was before this point of view , this lens that I have with my time in the outdoors . I've always gone hunting , fishing , camping , hiking , all that good stuff . At that point in my life , what happened was , you know , the divorce came about .
The last things that were said to my face was you have nothing to offer me or your children , which you know being homeless . At that point , rock bottom instantly snapped . That triggered that depression , that anxiety , that suicidal ideation .
All that good , all that horrible stuff all comes together and it forms , you know , the perfect storm and that really bad taste of life . Medicine , where I remember sitting in the uh in my truck , looking in the rear view mirror , going man . I've repeated this pattern so many times in my life . It never worked . Here I am again . Something's got to change .
And after that suicide attempt , I stumbled back to my truck , turned on a hunting podcast that I was listening to religiously . Ryan Holiday happened to be the guest that day and he spit out all these Marcus Aurelius quotes and stoic ideas that just threw me for a loop .
You know it was like dude , this is terminal , I'm going to eventually , I'm going to end my life , right . Then you hear all this stuff and I'm like you know , as a father , if that was the course of action , then the last thing that my ex-wife said to my face would be true . That's what my kids are going to remember .
If I could rebuild my life , man , I teach my kids about adversity and how to overcome all the struggles that we have to face , and that was what gave birth to it . It got me into therapy , and through talk therapy , there was a session where we talked about meditation , and this is the part that I love to share , because it's kind of funny .
For that hour I I blew it off and I'm like dude , I'm not shaving my head . I'm not turning on the 90s chant cds . Meditation's not me , you know , as a guy and you know we , we just we had that kind of perception of what meditation is . And then I went out back and I picked up my crossbow , started doing my nightly practice and I thought about it .
I'm like , dude , I'm meditating , I'm working my breath , I'm working my thoughts . I put the bow down , I sat down and I'm like , okay , I can do this . This is comfortable , but everybody around me is looking at me telling myself all those stories that we hold as limiting beliefs . So I'm like I can't do this here .
I'm not safe and I had to find that place that was safe . Safest place in the world to me is the wilderness , because it ties into that animal medicine and everything else where the rest of the world lives without a story . We're the only creatures on this planet that can tell ourselves a story and we get caught up in those stories .
That's what led me to developing Project Nightly Outdoors and , ultimately , the wilderness experience , which is the hiking combined with the meditation .
Wow , okay , this is pretty wild . First of all , I love the fact that you have something that that you found peace in , and that's the outdoors . You know something you said you grew up you know hunting , fishing , enjoying the outdoors , but you didn't really realize you were safe there until you went through this .
You know almost committing suicide and things like that . When you look back on it and you're in the middle of that because that's that's , I think , where I struggle is when I'm in the middle of something , it's hard to know that there's something better than that beyond that .
And you said you listened to that podcast and you heard some of those quotes from Marcus Aurelius and things like that . Is that kind of what clicked it for you . I mean , how do you , when you're in the middle of that and you're fighting it and it's tough , how do you know , how do you look ahead to know that , hey , you can , you can do something .
That's , I think , where I struggle .
Well , yeah , it was those quotes that really brought it together . And then it led me into the moment , into the present .
And that's where a lot of us , when we're struggling and we're going through , you know , especially with struggling with suicide ideas and things like that is , it's not that we want , we don't want that end , it's just we want the pain to stop and we lose perception of the coping skills . Everything breaks down , everything breaks down .
And when I instantly heard the the forefront of my mind , and that was the , ultimately the inspiration to pull myself out , I mean , you know , to get there , the process was very complicated because the way that I ended up going about it and , just like you know , with my project and with my work , it's blazing a trail that following therapy session , because I
was obviously very afraid , caught up in the fear and the anxiety of things . But then that next therapy session , my therapist mentioned probably the greatest piece of advice she ever gave me , and that's sometimes you just don't need to know . You know , sometimes it's best just to , in a sense , close your eyes and just bring yourself into the moment .
And that's what meditation started to help me discover and learn how to do so . I had all these different forces pulling at me and , you know , playing with the triggers of the depression , anxiety and everything like that , and I learned how to .
Through the time that I was spending outside , I learned how to bring myself back into the moment and realize that those are just thoughts , those are just ideas . They're not me , you know you're . You're not your thoughts . Your thoughts are just brought up based off of the environment that you're in .
So how did you go from being homeless at rock bottom to creating , you know , to get now in the outdoors and creating project , mindfully outdoor . How do you , how did that happen , like ? What kind of were the steps that you took ?
I did a lot of soul searching through the process . I also was also was working on getting some hunting sponsorships . I hooked up with a group called the Servant Nation . Part of their requirement was to have a social media presence .
So I started writing and I started building a blog and putting things together , because everybody does amazing how to's or check out these amazing hunts I'm on , but nobody tackles the mental health side of it .
And I wanted to be that guy because , to go back before the suicide attempt , I was like After that conversation , had I had somebody sitting with me , had I had a friend or something , I probably wouldn't have gone down the route that I did . So I wanted to become that guy that actually became the support system .
And as far as putting it all together , it was drawing on my past experiences and things that intrigued me , like Native American spirituality , the hunting , the fishing , the time outdoors it all goes together . And then on top of that , you bring in the new influence of the Stoic philosophy .
And one thing that I've discovered by meshing it all together in the pot is we put labels on things .
You know , we've got your Native American spirituality , we've got your different forms of religion , your different philosophy schools , but we're all telling the same story , and when you start to remove those labels , you start to let it all just naturally mesh together . As you turn the little spoon in the pot , you build this really solid foundation for yourself .
And once I started to fill my own glass , that was when it poured over and I started being able to really truly help other people .
Let's go back to meditation for a minute , cause I love what you said about meditation at first , how you were thinking the nineties chance and what you know . What am I going to have to wear ? Cause that's kind of the thoughts I had when I first heard of meditation . That's what you imagine .
You kind of picture some woo-woo stuff going on and I'm like that's not really me . I'm not this woo-woo guy that can sit and have people chanting in my ear or whatever , and it's not really like that . Because I love meditation . Now I don't do . I'm not big into it , but I do . I like to do just little bits of meditation each and every day .
¶ Wilderness Meditation and Self-Discovery
So when we talk about wilderness meditation kind of what is wilderness meditation then so wilderness meditation is actually just the simple process of combining different practices .
As far as you know , meditation routines Like , for example , walking meditation , and then we flow into a sitting meditation , and it all revolves around breathing and grounding yourself , being able to center those thoughts and start to control them , why we're having them , what they're trying to tell us or what they require us to do in order to complete the sentence ,
if you will you know , when it comes to meditation , especially in the wilderness meditation and this was a part that really caught me , because we started out painting the picture of the stereotype part of it , right , the woo-woo part . If you think about and one of my heroes is Crazy Horse , the great Lakota chief Meditation was a huge part of his practice .
We don't think about that . We think of him as the war leader and doing what he's doing . But in order to get there , in order to get the power and the ability to stand on his feet and do those things , he would retreat and sit with himself , which is exactly what meditation means .
Meditation is meant for yourself , by yourself , with yourself , to get to know yourself , and there's a lot of self in there , because it's a framework for helping you to develop self-growth and then you can bring that from being inside of you .
It comes out and it starts to actually impact the way that you navigate through the daily world , speaking of being out in the wilderness and you take people like on hikes and things out into the wilderness .
When someone comes to you , are you kind of looking at each individual and you're like , okay , this is what this person needs , or how are you , how do you develop that ? Or do you kind of take everybody through a similar thing and then kind of go from there ?
What is it that people are trying to do when they go on these little treks or these hikes or these outdoor experiences with you ?
So I use the idea that every journey begins with one small step , and that small step is what brings us together and it's for me as the guide . It's a matter of actually reading the individual or the group and figuring out what the collective goals are , what it is that they'd like to get out of it .
Now , like I , like I mentioned earlier , my goal and my intention was to , you know , speak to the outdoor community . However , with my podcast , the unique part about that is it's brought more people from outside of the outdoor community into my camp than I would have thought about . So , as I put this program together , it's become something that lays out .
The only actual bullet points in the experience are the safety aspects and teaching you how to go about and navigate through the wilderness and through the outdoors safely , while teaching you skills and I'll get back to the skill set here in a second but then it also teaches you the breathing patterns and the things like that , and there's people that come from all
walks of life , so it's not just strictly . Oh well , you know , I'm a leader or I'm a manager at a business and I'm trying to manage stress , or I'm on a recovery journey , I'm on a self-growth journey .
You know , whatever it is , there's always room in your life for meditation and what I mentioned about the wilderness skill set that I teach the reason that I put so much emphasis on that is because , when I went back to my roots to walk my healing journey , it was those skills that helped me to build a sense of self-worth and self-value that nobody is able to
take away , regardless of what they do , what they may say or whatever the case may be .
At the end of the day , I know that if I'm out in the wilderness , I can figure out how to build a fire , I can figure out how to build a shelter , I can figure out how to get water harvested , or whatever the case may be , and I can come back into the daily world with that same confidence . I can say you know , I'm facing this hill right here .
I learned how to think outside the box and build a fire , so now I can think outside the box and if I'm triggered because of my addiction , I can figure out a way to get around it .
And that's what I really emphasize with that is not only the self-value , but also the contingency plans , always leaving yourself a way out to transition and pivot into the next thing .
So when you were going through your tough time there and you got out into the wilderness , did you get out ? When you say you got out into the wilderness , did you go out for a certain length of time or was it just , you know , every day you tried to get out and do things , Because how did you develop these skills too ?
You talked about these skills of you know being able to build a fire and be able to get your own food , food . Did you kind of learn that as a kid and then just took that into being older , Like how did this all work ? I just kind of any in any story or experience from that from your perspective .
Well , that all came about as a kid , chasing my grandfather around on his next outdoor adventure .
¶ Wilderness Meditation and Personal Growth
So really you know , now that actually we're talking about this , it comes to mind that I'm actually building on his story , on his legacy within my life , and I think that's a beautiful thing .
So thank you for pointing that out , because you know , he taught me all the basics of how to go about and do these things , but then , through living my experiences , I found a whole new context that I know he'd be looking down and smiling upon because of the kind of man that he was and the things that he taught me .
That's really a beautiful core value that I love , the fact we get to celebrate and mention .
And so what kind of experiences do you have ? Any stories of you going out in the wilderness and some of the adventures that you've had . I'd like to hear any kind of you know , some of those experiences that you've had or it could be with other people and that you've , you know , helped along the way . I would love to hear a story or two .
Okay . So if I was to utilize just one of my solo adventures I don't know if you're familiar with the Ohio or Ohio Valley , kentucky area of all the mounds that are down there , all the different earthworks , I visited one .
I sat down and meditated on a log in Indiana and it started this crazy journey for me where I started actually studying and visiting all these different mounds from the Hopewell and Adina cultures and going out there and actually meditating and I'm very skeptical about all the spirituality stuff , but I remember distinctly one of them sitting , you know , climbing up the
1000 stairs to the top , sitting down , meditating and actually feeling an energy that was really picking at all these questions that I knew were in my heart , that I always avoided , and by the end of that meditation session it felt like I had left all these different pieces of trauma and pieces of negativity up there on the top of this burial mound .
So for me that was something that was really cool and I've written actually a couple of articles about things that I've learned by studying these cultures and how they apply to today's world .
That is awesome . I love that . I love the fact that you sought that out to go to these mound cemeteries or wherever . You know these and I I actually used to live in Ohio and so there's actually there was a cemetery in the town it was called called mound cemetery , which was a cemetery , but it was had some Indian mounds in it , which was really cool .
So I kind of appreciate that and appreciate what you did for that getting that exposure , meditating with that in mind . What was that feeling like ? Cause you said you know it kind of helped you . Well , how did you say that ? With some of the questions you had or things like that , what did it ? Yeah , kind of expand on that a minute if you don't mind .
So , you know , I feel like , as we've , as we live life and we go through things , we obviously we collect journey or we collect traumas , and we end up collecting all these different negativity aspects of things . Right , we throw them in an invisible backpack , we carry them around , well , sitting there on that mound , and we also like to ignore them .
Sitting there , meditating on that mound , like that , it felt as if there was another individual staring back at me , almost poking at my heart , pulling these questions out of me , because I like to avoid them , just like everybody else does .
You know , we just throw them in the backpack or there , and it was like once you actually sit down and feel these things and experience those , you realize we don't have to carry them , no more . So being able to actually leave them there , with whatever that experience actually was , was very , very relieving . It was very satisfying and opened up .
You know , another aspect of the journey .
As far as the healing aspect goes , so if you have people who you say have all types of walks of life , that come on these excursions with you , these hikes , whatever they want to have some wilderness meditation If there's somebody who's not super outdoorsy I guess is the word I would kind of maybe put myself in that that category .
I was a boy scout , you know , went , did scout camp , grew up , did all that fun stuff . But I'm not , I definitely don't have the skills you have . I'd never been hunting things like that .
So if you get someone who's similar to me , doesn't have a whole lot of outdoor skills , what kind of things do you talk to people like that who maybe are skeptical , like you know ? I'm not so sure . What would you say to someone like me ?
My approach is very , very simple . It's very laid back . I don't want you to feel intimidated and I'm going to give you a little bit of irony almost a joke of this of all this . Bit of irony , almost a joke of this of all this . I do all this personally to work on social anxiety .
You know a lot of people when they do come to me like , uh , I get a lot of people that are like number one , I'm afraid to go because a bear is going to get me . So we'll spend some time , we'll we'll actually distill all those fears , we'll talk through what the experience is going to be like .
And another thing that comes up a lot is I've got that hamster running around in the hamster wheel for my brain . You know I can't slow it down , so I don't know how I'm going to actually sit down and sit still to meditate .
Now , when we first get going , we usually end up hiking anywhere from half a mile to two and a half miles before we take the sit down meditation part .
So by the time we sit down to take that break , you know , sitting down is like a relief and then from there we start to just ease those fears and soothe everything out and realize my meditation practice or the way that I go about things , is going to be completely different than the way that you're going to meditate or the things that you're going to experience
. You know , there's a lot of , obviously , the fears of the things that we can't control . So if we break it down in that way , we're looking at our strengths and our strengths in a way that we can make them work to help us control that next step .
You know , if we're crossing , say , we're crossing a stream and it's slippery , I'm going to give you a walking stick or find you a stick . I'm going to show you how to balance yourself . And you take that one simple step . It doesn't seem so scary when you're out there doing it then . And you take that one simple step .
It doesn't seem so scary when you're out there doing it then . But now , if you're standing on the other side of the stream and you're looking at the current go and you see the mud and the rocks and you have nothing to help you balance , that's what it's all about is the support in order to break things down to smaller chunks .
When I think of the wilderness and I think of adventure out in the wilderness and you said , you know a bear might come get me or whatever . I love wildlife , I love wildlife , I love seeing wildlife . I you know I'm wearing a Yellowstone shirt right now .
I love Yellowstone National Park because you can see bison and elk and bears and deer and just all kinds of wildlife . How does that integrate into any of this ? Is that a part of it at all ?
Absolutely , it's a part of it , because there's so much that we can learn from the animals that we interact with , even the plants . I'll give you a great example of it . You know , like I mentioned , I struggle a lot with anxiety , right , especially social anxiety .
Interacting with people is like something that is always especially after , you know , after the divorce , and everything was terrifying . There was a couple of years ago I was out hunting . It was the height of the rut , which is the breeding season for deer , and it was miserably cold . It was a blizzard .
I sat out , I sat in a tree for about two and a half hours that morning before this beautiful , amazing young buck come through . And I've got a rule that I hold myself to when I'm out deer hunting I will not attempt to take a deer that I've never seen before . I love to have that story and that connection with the deer , so I didn't pull on him .
I obviously didn't make the effort to shoot him , and I'm sitting there thinking to myself it's cold out here . I called myself a hunter , what am I doing ? And then here we are , november 15th , the peak of the rut .
I named this deer Longhorn because he had a beautiful rag , and Longhorn is running around in the middle of the day , something he normally wouldn't't do except for the fact that he's got a mission to complete and in the back of his mind he knows that he has a strong enough skill set to rely on if he encounters danger that he can react and respond .
So it's okay for him to put his guard down and just do , because that's his mission in life . Now , for us in day , our day-to-day life , it's not life and death , and damn it , damn well feels like it when we're having an anxiety attack .
But if longhorn has that skill set and can demonstrate that to do his mission , it's a walk in the park for us I'm learning all kinds of things talking to you today , so this is , this is fantastic .
I'm I need to get out in the wilderness more , that's for sure . I love that and again , I love , I love animals , I love , I love seeing that sort of thing . So I think that's a beautiful thing and I think that's a nice way to connect it all .
Do you have any experiences from any any of your particular , you know customers or clients where they kind of went out there and you weren't so sure and then they had just a you know , a really great transformation that you could share ?
I'm going to go with somebody that came out with me from a , from a recovery group , and you know , like we mentioned before about the hamster wheel and the racing thoughts they they showed up because somebody had . You know , I had told them to go , they were like blowing it off whatever . I'm never going to do this .
And we walked through the process , especially spent a lot of time hiking before we did anything , and we brought them through the process , taught them some different skills that day and they're a lifelong client .
Okay , I got some technical questions for you , with your whole setup that you do and everything . Is there a certain spot that you go to ? Do you go all over the country ? How does this work ? I mean , can you do stuff virtually ? I don't know . You know what the way things are today like what kind of ?
Give me some of that technical for what you do and how you help people .
You know , like I mentioned , I'm based here in Michigan . I do a lot of . I do the bulk of my classes here in the state of Michigan , working through community centers and different support centers in order to help through the community . As far as the actual one-on-one or small excursion hikes , those are open to whatever you got in mind .
We can get together on a call and we can brainstorm and really your imagination is the limit . We can go wherever . We can do whatever .
If you're really not a hundred percent comfortable or ready to get into the wilderness or we can't make the in-person thing happen , I do do the meditation and the storytelling and things like that , the support system digitally like this Okay , so that is a possibility .
then you think , oh , wilderness , meditation and things like that , but you can still adapt to people's needs . I guess is what I was getting at .
Absolutely . There's got to be versatility , so as you move , forward in this .
What are some of the challenges that you face ?
I think my biggest challenge that I still face is fighting off the anxiety . You know , I think that no matter how far we progress , we still got those things that are going to trigger and they're going to show up .
So being aware of it , being mindful of it , it's just a matter of zeroing in sometimes and finding the willingness to blaze a new trail and explore something new , which gets back to that versatility part .
So what's going on now with Mike ? You went through a divorce , you have kids . Anything going on in the personal life of Mike ? Let's see .
We did four years of total isolation and we finally , we finally broken that and actually getting ready to celebrate here my one year anniversary of my newest , of my new relationship , my new relationship , which has been phenomenal and amazing .
And you know , it's one of those things that , to steal the quote the line from Field of Dreams , if you build it they will come . Well , I did all the hard work and the self growth and everything and then dreamed it up and it finally manifested , and you know that relationship , has just been beautiful .
That's awesome . Congratulations . That's great to hear . I'm happy to hear that . One question I always like to ask , because this is an adventure podcast and I've had all kinds of different types of adventures , from gymnasts to hikers , to paramotors , to , you know , river rafting , whatever you name it .
But I love hearing this question because I like to hear what different people's responses to this . But what does adventure mean to you ?
Adventure , to me , is about the thrill of discovery , and it's also about the enjoyment and the satisfaction of connecting with those who walk before us .
So , mike , tell everybody if someone's interested in this , like , oh you know , this wilderness meditation sounds awesome and maybe they want to listen to your podcast or kind of give a glimpse into that as well . Where can ? Where can we find you ? Where can we look you up ? How do we ? How do we do that ?
So the podcast is called Project Mindfully Outdoors . It's run seven days a week and you can find that . Wherever you listen to this great podcast or any other , it's very simple to find .
Project Mindfully Outdoors . Let's look that up and boom . Thank you so much for coming on Journey with Jake and sharing your story with us .
Absolutely . Thank you for celebrating my work with me .
I'm so glad I had Mike Martin on the show today . What a blessing to speak with such great people who have had their struggles and trials but are out there and want to support and help all of us . Thank you , mike .
If you want to know more about Mike and Project Mindfully Outdoors , you can check out his website , projectmindfullyoutdoorsco Again that's projectmindfullyoutdoorsco and listen to his podcast of the same name . You can also find Mike on Instagram at projectmindfullyoutdoors underscore PC . Mindfully outdoors underscore PC . Thanks for listening to the show .
Each and every week it means the world to me . My guest next week is Jenny Milton and we talked about flying kites . Well , it's a lot more than just flying kites Tons of adventure on next week's show . You don't want to miss it . Just remember it's not always about the destination as it is about the journey . Take care everybody .