Okay, Chelsea, this is outside of my normal wheelhouse, but this title, we cannot avoid reading this story. So I'm just gonna... Based on the title? Yes, based on the title, we can't not read this. Fair enough. And it comes from the Salt Lake Tribune, written by Alyssa Grenfell on March 28th, 2025. Article title. Voices. The Latter Day Saint Church must address its demon problem or more children will suffer. What does voices
have to do with it? I don't know. There's a colon after voices so I don't know what that means. The horror -ridden stories of Ruby Frank and Lori Valodable share a common theme, demonic possession. The term exorcism conjures images of holy water, a brandish cross, and stoic priests wearing liturgical vestments. Despite conventional ties to Catholicism, casting out evil spirits
is also a Mormon doctrine. As a child, I learned that in pre -earth life, Satan was cast out of Heavenly Father's presence along with many other spirit children. These spirits desperately wanted bodies and would occasionally possess the bodies of Heavenly Father's children on earth. My mom read from Matthew to teach me about Jesus casting the demons from a man and into a herd of pigs. My dad taught me that church founder Joseph Smith outlined very specific guidelines for how to
tell a devil from an angel. The trick? Ask to shake their hand. I really wish she would have followed up on that, because now I don't know what I'm supposed to do with that information. Like, do they not want to shake your hand back? The problem is, I don't know which one wouldn't shake your hand. Uh -oh. Yeah. Like, is the result so clearly angel or devil that you don't even need to say it? I feel like you should have followed
up that anecdote. Now I'm concerned that I've shook every devil's hand that I've ever met. Who are she hands with, at least? Hmm, I wonder if you'd know which one was the devil. Apparently all of them. Are they shaking the hand or are they not? I don't know. Or are the angels like too hoity -toity and they won't touch these brown dwellers that are us? Well, I'm at this point and I'm thinking it's probably everyone I've ever shaken hands with. The devil is a handshaker.
Yeah, he does seem like he's a deal maker. Yeah, you only shake hands if you're possessed or a demon, right? I guess. But I guess that has weird implications for why you would want to shake their hand, too. Well, I didn't know that before this. Yeah. No, I just mean, like, if you're the one presenting it as a shaking hand, and if that's a devil thing, then they must associate you with the devil. Yeah. Now, if someone wants
to shake my head, do I? God damn it. Why could she not just give us the answer to the anecdote? Okay, we bet maybe... She might be getting an angry email later on. Anyhow. The casting out of Satan is depicted in temple ceremonies of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints. My husband recalls members of the church asking him to do the same while he was on his mission. As a woman, I was never personally allowed this
authority. In footage provided by Kevin Frank in the new Hulu series Devil in the Family, we see a latter -day Saint Bishop visiting the Saint George home of Jodie Hildebrandt to help cleanse her home of demons. He's performing what is in effect in exorcism. Kevin Frank recounts spending hours attempting to cast the demons from Hildebrandt while living in Springville. His attempts at exorcism included listing every name of Jesus Christ he could remember. How many freaking names
does this guy have? Ruby Frank wrote extensively about her own children's possession. In her diary she wrote that her 12 year old son, quote, emulates a snake, end quote. She said she made him stand for hours in the hot desert sun. She said that she withheld food. She said she cut him and rubbed cayenne peppers in his wounds. Jesus Christ. Ruby said she did not believe there's his name. The only name. She did not believe she was abusing her kids. She thought she was saving them from
the devil. As Sherry Frank writes in her memoirs, quote, The House of My Mother, Ruby drew significant insight from the book Vision of Glory. She writes that Ruby and Hildebrandt were obsessed. This book, written by a Latter -day Saint, was the same book Lori Valodabel was reading by the pool when she was arrested in Hawaii. She said she believed the only way to rid her children of demons was to kill them. It's time for Latter -day Saint leaders to confront and reform the
faith's teaching of demonic possession. This doctrine has convinced many members there are demons in their homes, in their walls, and in their children. These cases of abuse and murder can be directly attributed to this doctrine, and that the perpetrators of these crimes have stated this time and time again. Until the Church addresses this doctrine, or better yet dismisses
it entirely, more children may suffer. I urge the Church to provide clear guidance and education to help members distinguish between the metaphorical teachings and literal interpretations. Faith should support mental health and safety, not endanger it. That's the end of it. Oh, you know what? It's an opinion piece. That's why it's voice. Oh, okay. I was like, can you just read the title one more time so I can try and figure
out what's going on? Yes. Voice. The LDS church must address its demon problem or more children will suffer. It's her opinion piece. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Nope. That does seem like a fitting title now. Alyssa Grenfell is a former member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints who currently lives in San Antonio, Texas. She's the author of How to Leave the Mormon Church, an ex -Mormon's guide to rebuilding after religion.
Okay, so I just thought because we have done our exorcism episodes and that is the thing that I believe came up fairly prominently in that episode is like mental health can be mistaken for demonic possession and leads to very terrible things. Yeah, no, that did seem like a big mental health thing that you just read in that article is exactly what I was thinking. It's not just the mental health of the person who's possessed. It's the parents, it seems like as well. Yeah.
How else can you justify doing something like that to your child? Yeah. You can't with, well, maybe you can with religion if you're religious enough, but you have to have some mental health illness in there yeah but that's the weird thing about religion like you're saving them for an eternity so no matter how much pain or suffering you cause them in this mortal life is likely worth it for the long term which is just that that doesn't sound great no no it doesn't sound
great at all and yeah Yeah. Anyhow, you guys got 48 hours, which is basically not an eternity at all when you think about it in that sense. So we'll see you then. Don't go... Yeah. Bye. Bye.