Get the way morning every day.
Our next guest started playing the piano age just six, and her first folk rock band was called The Waifs. Young girls everywhere discovered themselves to the tune of Scar and Where I Stood, and she inspired a million copycat pixie cuts. She's about to be inducted into the twenty twenty four ARIA Hall of Fame. Please welcome to Joni and Hazy Melissa Morrison Higgins.
Mister Higgins, welcome to the show.
Thank you, thanks for having me.
The big news for you is the Aria Hall of Fame in twenty twenty four. How incredible. What does that mean to you?
Yeah, it is incredible. I'm a bit in shock, to be honest.
Yeah, I just I'm just honored, just so incredibly honored that, you know, my body of work has been recognized in this way, and I'm honored that my criteria meets that of somebody that's worthy of being inducted into the Hall of Fame. I mean, I'm an incredible company when I see all the other people who've been inducted over the years.
He's a fun fact for you. Might not know you were the first artist played on Nov. Nine or nine when we launched twenty years ago. Have listened this is you playing SCA live in our studios?
And doesn't that sound familarion? Doesn't that need to close time?
Doesn't that make a shiver the way things caught a gone?
Doesn't I feel peculiar?
Everyone wants to lead more so that I too, when them to never go that?
Fine?
Could you leave me with the scar?
Do you remember that?
That's pretty cool? So the very first person you played on the radio station, that's amazing.
I'm believing.
Oh, that's so cool.
Yeah, I didn't know that. Speaking of that song, I've read like a lot of stuff on the internet about people trying to get to the bottom of what that song is about, Like people are almost obsessed. Is there a simple explanation for it? And people just overthinking it? Oh?
I wrote it out to co writers that I worked with in America because with my first album, the record American record company wanted to set me up with a heap of songwriters. Yeah, and I'd never done that before. So I went over there and it was a really crappy experience because with the guy, you know, he was really trying to turn me into this teen pop idol kind of singer, and I wasn't you know, he was trying to change my songs. He was trying to change
my lyrics. And then the women did the same thing. She kind of it was just a bit. It was just a bit yucky working with them, and I didn't feel like it was we were making true art, and it felt like we were just trying to make stuff to sell rather than good, good quality music. And I wanted to write that song to kind of remember, try and remind myself in the future to trust myself and sort of trust to trust my own abilities.
I was saying to you, of father. I listened to your podcast and on The Imperfects, which is a brilliant podcast, and you spoke a little bit about your time in the US and periods I guess a little bouts of depression that you've had and some anxiety. And where are you at now in your career. Are you in a content place?
Yeah, yeah, I am.
I think I went through a real phase in my twenties where I was a bit disillusioned with the whole industry.
And I think it was in particular because i'd just i'd gone over to America and I was signed to this major label, and they were just they were working me to the bone, and they were so obsessed with selling unit getting me on the chart, which is fine in and of itself, but there was so much focus on that there wasn't any They didn't look out for my well being, and they didn't really listen to me when I was saying that I was getting burnt out and needed a break, and I don't know, it was just,
it was just I'd become a bit of a cog in the machine, and so I took a massive break from music and it took me a long time to come back. But when I came back, I came back on my own terms, and I came back with a very strong and clear idea of what my priorities were. And my priority was number one, to make sure that I was only doing music for the right reason.
Don't you feel like that's the absolute beauty of growing older as a woman, because you come into your own and you start to realize you're worth in whatever industry you're in, and you start to develop your own boundaries and you start to discover your authentic self. I know this is getting quite deep, but that's my favorite part about growing older. I don't know if you feel the same.
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, like having more confidence to speak up and more of a kind of secure knowledge that it's okay to say that you're not happy with something, or that it's okay to say no, it's okay to disappoint people. Yeah, and also that you're never going to be liked by everyone, and that's okay.
I think you've done a pretty good job of being universally liked for both who you are and for your music. You are coming to South Australia for a day on the Green. It's at Peter Lemon Winesbarossa Valley on Saturday, December seven. It's called the Second Act to It celebrates the twentieth anniversary of your debut album, The Sound of Why Me See Here. Bigan's an absolute joy and a pleasure to speak to you. Thank you so much for continuing to bring us beautiful music.
No worries, thank you, thanks for having me showed. So.
I'm not sure about you, but growing up as a youngster sometimes we were edumicated by films and some of the things that we saw on films, and I'm talking about sex.
Yeah, sort of having a chat with the parents. That's where you turned to the television.
But they didn't want to do that. They did not want to do that.
I don't want to have that awkward conversation.
Do you want to do that?
I don't want to do that right now.
I still don't know exactly what's going on.
You've had three kids, you know what you're doing.
I have about this for A study revealed that viewers age ten to twenty four, that's gen Z, prefer less sex on screen, oh, with fifty one percent more, with fifty one percent wanting more content about platonic relationships and friendships. Additionally, forty seven and a half percent believe sex is unnecessary in most TV shows and movies. Now, Zoe is gen Z? Just what's what's going on? Actually?
Quite why?
Less sex?
But now that you say that, I actually agree with that.
Well, who are these young people that don't want to watch people getting it on on the screen?
I don't know.
I just can't you tell about a story without just getting your gear off?
No?
No, because everything in every situation, eventually, particularly from a mind's man a man's mindset, is leading to that moment.
Particularly, Yeah, that's why we do everything.
That's what's what is that? What it's all about all of the time?
Because I did see a famous commedity and said, let's be realistically, for a man, if it wasn't for trying to get to that goal, we'd live in a cardboard box box.
When I care, Oh, do you want to say on that again?
Because fuck me dead, I can't.
Thought we should don't start again, seriously, no, no, not starting against.
I saw a famous comedy once and he said that if it wasn't for that the end result, we'd be more than content just to live in a cardboard box.
That's just to be sad.
Probably that makes sense.
So if you really analyze us, though, wasn't it.
What was that really weird series that was on that that we were made to watch here at Nova? Can you remember? And that I wish there was les less of that.
Or that, Oh my gosh, when we made you watch Saltburn Ye.
Oh my gosh, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about.
Let's go back to nineteen ninety nine and American Pie, one of the great movies right in the prime of my adolescence, and Jim and Nadia got down and dirty and let's just call Nadia a bit of a goddesses, and Jim and up and coming young Andrew who he's in the prime of his adolescence, who doesn't know what he's doing. He's Andrew hasty Jim.
Oh no, oh no, I'm.
Not done, Nutty, I have.
I've got reserves, Nudy, I'm begging you again, not again.
Man, you're looking blankly.
You've seen America doesn't.
Tell you a few life lessons, and I don't know what does.
Yeah, I mean, look, we could probably do with less of Jim. Jim's performance was very underwhelming.
Even more of Jim inspire you.
What I will say is not much has changed since that day. But ladies and gentlemen, three kids.
I mean that we can see quickly the kids.
Nonetheless, the extended version was I've got extra, extra, extra.
Looseless.
And Joe's as aggressive as this gets. Sometimes it is actually helping exercise.
Has it helped me with my everyday listening? So far?
Yes? I think it has.
Okay, put your hand on if you've noticed a significant improvement in Jody's listening skills me.
You put your.
Because I was listening.
Oh my gosh.
All right, So what happens is we're gonna put some noise canceling headphones on.
Joe's yep.
I'm going to give a few sentences, and she has to read my lips, like literally read my lips.
Yep.
Okay, Joe's you can do this, okay, So first step and first sentence. Up goes the elevated music into Jody's headphone. She can't hear it. Confirmation jos has done her little thing where she enters a different stratosphere. Here we go, first sentence. The duck flies at midnight.
The fox died in a fight.
Oh that's kind of close. You're ready. We'll go again. The duck flies at midnight.
The hat is wired at midnight.
One more quick one. The duck flies at midnight.
The dot flies at midnight.
You go, all right, noise canceling headphones off. You can hear us now, congratulations, you got.
All right.
Here we go, noise canceling headphones back on. Do you want to build a snowman?
Did you take your pill this morning?
Andrew?
We don't need any more little hazies.
Stop veering off course.
Listen to me, all right, I was canceling headphones still on? Do you want to build a snowman?
Do you want to drink milk in or chopper? Oh?
Thank you very much? Last time? Do you want to build a snowman?
Oh? Sat again again? Set again?
Do you want to build a snowman?
Something about? Do you want to top up?
Cancer? Phones off? Do you want to build a snowman? I did take my feel alright? Last one? Noise cancing headphones on?
Yep.
I have a fear of buttons.
You have bestatus.
I have a fear of buttons.
You have a fear of buttons.
From three?
God, you know what she's getting ever so close to graduating.
Sometimes I like to peruse Instagram and it can be productive. I e. You can come across the list of the top nick names for people at work. Yes, you're welcome, Here we go.
I'm sure this will be constructive.
All right, you ready for these? I'm sure you might register in one of them. Okay. Some of the top nicknames for the people that you encounter each and every day in your workplace. Sense a light? They only work if someone walks past.
Everyone knows.
Do you know a MasterCard takes credit for other people's work?
Yes? Yes, absolutely, And a lot of people in this team that do that.
Of them? What about a Shania doesn't impress you much? Is a good one? Jetster usually later or doesn't show up at all?
Very good?
What are Oh? We all know Google's thinks they know everything. Oh my god, there's one of.
Those, My god, just one in every single workplace.
Kim Jong only got the job because the dad and who doesn't know a boomgate. You can't get past them without a chat.
In the same chat, your brain goes in the space where it's the same stuff every time.
Do you know what floats around and does air fall?
Yes?
I thought the extension of that as well, but also smells like pook.
Everyone knows a paper straw as well. They work for two minutes and then break down.
For you, it's emotional thing. Oh, here we go for you.
I've come up with a I've come up with an endearing term for my work colleague. I'm going to call you squirrel because you've always got your hand.
On some nuts.
You actually, it's some that you know about some that you don't. We do call you, you know that. We call you the chameleon because the eyes dart off in different directions. Also, we call you et because you always want to go hunt and finally something we call you behind your back, and I'm ready to bring it to light now, is it? Sometimes we call you four skid because you disappear when things get hard.
I am so curious about something this week, and so is producer Zoe. By the way, us girls as a whole species as curious about this. I was listening to a podcast that I'm a massive fan of called The imperfect I would encourage everyone to have a listen to it because it makes us better as human beings. Anyway, you know The Inspired Unemployed.
Yes, these two blokes in particular, yeah, Jack and Falcon. They might be the most popular blokes in this country at the moment.
Bunch of trades basically who started putting together all these skits. They went nuts on Instagram and on TikTok and everything. He was on The Imperfects and he was talking about his anxiety and he's partying too hard and a whole host of things. But one thing that piqued my interest at the end of it was he was talking about saying I love you to his best mate Falcon. And there was this whole discussion around blokes not saying I love you to their friends have a listen.
Because you can say I love you, love your brother and see you're on your way. That's not really it's not the real thing. That's not the real thing, you know, and it is. How hard is it just to tell? I mean, if I had a near car crash when I left this podcast room, I would tell Falcon dude, I'm so lucky to have you, like, thank you so much. How easy is that to say that? I just wouldn't do it. Most people just avoid that.
This is a space where men and women are wide so different.
Yeah, so differently, so I guess Zoe, from our point of view, we will absolutely like I tell them pretty much every time I hang up the phone to my close friends, say I love you boo or you know whatever. It might be. Might sound throw away, but it's not, yeah, because the intention I think for women is to tell other women you mean the world to me, and I do love you absolutely.
Yeah.
My best friend lives into state and we don't have a phone call without saying I love you at the end.
Yeah.
I did the same with my mum, which I'm sure is more common in your family. But yeah, I'll tell my girlfriends all the time. And my best house mate ed, Yeah, I'll tell him that I love him all the time. Yeah, yeah, I think it's important.
Okay, here we go and we do this in check chat Andrew the spotlight on. You're always there here if you need to hear, if.
You need well, I'm always on the bench.
Though in this space we need you. Do you say I love you to your closest guy friends?
I probably no, I don't know. I don't really and do you know what?
And sometimes and I will if someone says it to me, But I just I think, is it part of it?
A fear of rejection?
Is it?
Like I don't know.
You're telling this story, is it?
I think it probably is because we're very proud people are men and I sort of and I we'll name him right now, bloke called Robie Cornswait. He works at seven US Soccer Fans, a home played for Adelaid United than Soccer Roos.
He will quite often say I love you or even love you, bro yeah, and then straight away you go, that's really nice. It's really nice, and it's a really nice thing. But I wouldn't say that to my friends. I would volunteer that I wouldn't say it.
So when he says love you, bro, what do you say?
It's like, right, absolutely, has it inspired you to ever say to him?
First?
Do you know what? It probably has?
Because that's that's a man who's in touch with his inner emotions.
I just got it worked out.
Shows emotional maturity one hundred percent.
And that's even I can recognize that that's a man who is emotionally immature. But now I'm making a big effort with my son, and he's six years old, to really, as often as possible, every single night, say I love you, mate,
I really love you. And because my dad did it to me and I didn't realize how much of a good effect it would have, and because it was something that I was completely used to in my life, you don't understand until you hear other stories or other situations, just how rare it is for men, even if it's a father saying to a son, how rare it.
Is to say to sit down and genuinely say I love you.
I'm going to put it a high pathetical to you in just a moment. But thirteen twenty four ten, if you'd like to get involved in the chick chat, that's turned into a bloke chat Mark thirteen twenty four ten. Do you say I Love you to your male friends? Are they blokes out there that are happily going every single time you see each other? I love you. I'd love to hear from you. Okay, you're standing in front of Jason Horn Francis.
This is where the fear rejection gone, and.
You're saying goodbye to him. Do you say, JHF, I love you, bro?
I say JHF, I love you. Congratulations on the All Australian selection. And you're a future port Adelaike.
Great? And then do you sprint across Alberton Oval and try and get away because you're solf for read he won't say that.
Say Jason give Score thirteen twenty four ten. And this is one for the fellas. Do you say I love you to your mates? Because this is the other thing. I want to drill it into my son so much so that if he ever has the saw lightest.
Problem, he can tell me.
And for blokes, we don't deliver as much as we probably should. We bottle stuff up and we usually don't talk until it's it's too late, and it's at such a point where it's the last option, and that's really bad.
Absolutely, Hey, we're not putting a line through the chicks too in this chit chat. Yeah, if you say I love you to your girlfriends all the time, I love to hear from you as well.
Hey, guys, I like you.
Guys are ill luck you a lot.
We're getting there.
Yeah, thirteen twenty four ten, we're doing this this morning. Blokes apparently don't say I love you to each other even when they're best friends. I'd love to be proven wrong in this space on thirteen twenty fourteen. Give us a call. But yeah, I was listening to The Inspired Unemployed the other day and Falcon is best mates with Jack, like there is closest to humans can be, and they revealed that sometimes it feels a little awkward to say I love you.
Yeah, I think boths for whatever reason. In that space.
It's just the strange thing. And you know what happens, and it shouldn't happen. It'll come out of a few beers. I think the big test is if you can be in a situation and you can express how you're feeling in a moment of randomness, is.
What we're talking about. When it comes to emotional maturing exactly.
All right, let's go to wait good, are you and I love you? Kind of guy?
I'm sort of in between. I had a sort of fairly serious incident in my life a couple of years ago that kind of triggered this response to do some deep diving into myself, and and I've tried to kind of since them, kind of consciously do it more like I was staying up there before that. Like online, I
find it easier to do. But there's definitely this generational thing where you know, we were told not to show our emotions and show our feelings and things like that, and and so it makes it It does make it difficult, but I am I think I'm making a conscious effort to change that and show other people through social media and stuff that is actually okay to you know, particularly obviously man, there's okay to tell people that you love you.
I do have a couple of really good mates from high school that I would tell, and my older brother, who is very funny about that sort of stuff. I tell him partly because I think he needs to know that I love him, but also partly because I know he kind of screamed.
A little bit.
Like watching him be awkward about it.
But yeah, I'm I was just going to say, you're you're leading a really really important charge because you said it before and I connected.
For whatever reason. It wasn't my dad, because he was the opposite.
He would consistently tell me, but for whatever reason in society it was like, no.
You don't say that.
You don't want to be wimpy and all those types of things, which is ridiculous. So you're changing something that needs to be changed, which is very, very valuable.
So you're doing a good job.
Way'd thank you so much for your call, really appreciate it. Interesting use of the word whimpy too. Good morning, Josh. How are you sound like an I love you kind of guy?
Oh, if it's on the end of a phone call, it's definitely throwing out.
To love you, but it doesn't tend up and face to face too much.
Why do you reckon, Josh? Is it?
I think I'm adamant it's sort of a half fear of rejection. And even if someone doesn't say it verbally, you can probably pick up a few cues if you see their facial expressions.
Yeah, I don't know.
For me, it's definitely not like rejection it to us, but like the think cringe sort.
Of thing, isn't it.
Think about it like face to face you're looking at each cover's eyes.
And you're saying I love you over the phone when you're whipping out, I love you, bloody love it.
Do you like to hear it? Josh?
I love hearing it?
Still part of it is that, yeah, well, Josh, I think you lost your mate when you close your eyes and then perch the lips out.
As we don't talk about that. Oh, Josh, thank you so much for people really appreciate it. I'm out there, Hazy.
We love you, Hazy, I love you.
Hazy, No, no, no, I love you.
I love you guys how much that I love that.
You could have looked either of us.
When you said that.
That's what we're talking about this mone.
We said a quick little chatter offair as well, like I'm not sure because it's.
Maybe it's a fear of rejection for blokes.
It's something that's not wide into us. We're trying to shift the generation before us, where it.
Wasn't the norm to tell other blokes et cetera, that you cared about that you love them. And also now I'm dealing with a three year old girl who will not say I love you back to me, okay, and when I finally do get a kiss from wipes her mout. I think constantly says Dad, you stink well, I am working on my personal.
Hygiene, trying to get a reaction out of you. Just keep telling you love it.
She's getting one, or maybe you think I don't know. I don't know. We're talking about blokes telling each other that they love them, which we'd love to hear more of. By the way, let's go to Asie, a man that we love. Are you telling your friends that you love them?
Yes, I've got a best mate, Chris, shout out, Chris love him, will Mark. He's even in my phone as Hobby so my wife, My wife has got him saved in her phone as Adam's husband. Adam, you gener next with someone that's you know, that's your true best mate. I don't think that you should. I was brought up not to show emotions, but when you when you got someone like that, you should tell them you love them and show them that you appreciated.
You are such a wise man.
Because the other situation is people find themselves where they're in a near death experience and something clicks and all of a sudden, you study yourself. I need to say the things that I need to say before I die, and you're a.
Head of the curl.
Love you. Let's go to Havana. Good morning, good morning? How are you? Where do you sit with this?
I always tell my friends that I love them constantly, And if so, how long ago?
I noticed?
Then I went and called both my friends up and I told them how much. That's exactly, that's perfect, that's what we want to I love that for you.
What does it sound like, Havannah when you say to your friends, like, for example, if you're saying goodbye on the phone or whatever, is it just I love you?
It's always I love you so much?
And they always say I love you so much, like I'd be beautiful day to day that you too love you?
Like I think I forget about just how powerful our words are.
I'm going to call my friends now, I love them.
I just want friends.
We love you.
Let's peel back the curtain. We did volunteer to Robbie corn fight for him to jump on her and say I love you, And he said, I'm too busy doing school and he.
Doesn't even have kids.
He does have kids. Thank you for the court.
Havana as well and unbelievable as well, Havana saying I'll just call my friends before to say it to him.
I love him,