528: Real Rank and Real Authority is Earned.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is Jockel podcast number 528 with echo trials and made Jockel willing. [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening, echo. [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening. [SPEAKER_00]: So there are problems in leadership as we know and believe it or not, the problems repeat themselves over and over again because human beings as different as we are. [SPEAKER_00]: We are the same. [SPEAKER_00]: We all have the egos, the emotion, the idiosyncrasies, the agendas, the self-interest. [SPEAKER_00]: It's all there.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like a snowflake. [SPEAKER_00]: You can definitely identify a snowflake when you see one, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But every snowflake is different. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very similar thing. [SPEAKER_00]: All snowflakes will melt when it gets warm out, right? [SPEAKER_00]: There's a whole bunch of commonalities will to same thing with human beings.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I found a manual from the U.S. Army from their human research unit in Fort Benning, Georgia, written in 1965. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's got kind of the culmination of lessons from World War I, World War II, Korea. [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, 1965, they're just getting into Vietnam. [SPEAKER_00]: And interestingly, the manual is called basic problems in small unit leadership. [SPEAKER_00]: Right? [SPEAKER_00]: Basic problems in small unit leadership.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some really good insights, some interesting takes on leadership and definitely some lessons for us to learn and confirm. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what we're doing. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go to the book. [SPEAKER_00]: Once again, basic problems in small unit leadership. [SPEAKER_00]: get into it. [SPEAKER_00]: At the most fundamental level, a leader is a person with influence over other people.

[SPEAKER_00]: This influence may be the result of appointment to a formal position of leadership, or of acceptance by a group of persons who then become followers. [SPEAKER_00]: So this is an interesting [SPEAKER_00]: just bifurcation out of the gate that this book does. [SPEAKER_00]: In both cases, the leader's success is ultimately determined by the performance of those elite. [SPEAKER_00]: So look, if you're a leader, success is based on how well the team does.

[SPEAKER_00]: This performance depends on the quality and nature of his leadership actions as he interacts with his followers. [SPEAKER_00]: A leader's interactions with his men can inspire their trust respect and devotion. [SPEAKER_00]: Their cordial dislike or any intermediate feeling between those two extremes. [SPEAKER_00]: So, however you treat your people is, they're even going to love you or hate you. [SPEAKER_00]: It's what they're getting out there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Skilled combat leadership is obviously the final test of a military leader's training. [SPEAKER_00]: However, the principles of effective leadership are as applicable to combat leadership as two peace time leadership. [SPEAKER_00]: In most respects, a given leadership act should be effective in both combat and peace time operation. [SPEAKER_00]: So kind of surprising, people else's different in combat, no actually it's not.

[SPEAKER_00]: The primary characteristic of an effective combat unit is its willingness to commit itself to combat and its desire to meet and defeat the enemy. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what that's an effective combat unit. [SPEAKER_00]: are you willing to commit to combat and do you desire to meet defeat the enemy? [SPEAKER_00]: That's how we're judging it.

[SPEAKER_00]: This in turn is a function of A the confidence the members have of the unit have in the ability of their leader and the loyalty they feel for him and be their confidence in their own ability their own abilities and the loyalty or group ties they feel for one another. [SPEAKER_00]: There you go how confident they are in the leader and how confident are they in themselves and each other.

[SPEAKER_00]: The first of these, the confidence the men have in their leader and the loyalty they feel for him must develop over a period of time, it cannot develop suddenly, except in those rare cases in which a leader assumes command of a unit during a crisis period such as combat and successfully leads his men to victory. [SPEAKER_00]: So, you're lucky if you get rolled into that situation.

[SPEAKER_00]: When this happens, the leader in this manner well-detightly into a tight knit unit, almost within minutes. [SPEAKER_00]: Did you, uh, I was on Sean Ryan's podcast? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, hell yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, I told the story about when I took over this platoon where the platoon commander had been fired, and like the first training mission we did,

[SPEAKER_00]: A boat like flipped inside and guys were kind of like, hey, we need to call the admin and get a vehicle down here to pick it up I'm like no, we're taking this thing back out to see what we're completing this mission and they kind of look at me I was a little bit crazy and then I Done this before this wasn't like this wasn't like a miracle.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't I'm not some tactical genius, but I had done a lot of A lot of over the beach operations because I had done [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, two at that point. [SPEAKER_00]: I had done no. [SPEAKER_00]: I had done three ship board deployments at that point. [SPEAKER_00]: So I had done so many over the beach up. [SPEAKER_00]: And these guys were like kind of relatively new Some of them global war on terror time frame a lot less focus on the water.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'd stop doing amphibious ready group ship board deployments years before that [SPEAKER_00]: So these guys just didn't know what they were doing. [SPEAKER_00]: And they looked at me, they were almost kind of crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: So, but made it happen. [SPEAKER_00]: And like that was sort of an instant, okay, this guy knows what he's doing and we trust him. [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, continue on, however, it is a difficult task for the leader.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is better that he have established at the minimum a firm foundation for the loyalty and respect of his men prior to the time his unit is committed to combat. [SPEAKER_00]: The purpose of this task, text, and the course of which is a part is to provide the leader with the basis for learning how to do this. [SPEAKER_00]: Confidence and loyalty are developed by the members of the unit as they observe their leader and countering leadership problems and solving them effectively.

[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't that interesting that you need some kind of challenges in order to shine? [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like when you hear a fighter at the end of their career. [SPEAKER_00]: You hear a Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. [SPEAKER_00]: They talk about each other. [SPEAKER_00]: Like you made, you know, you made, you push me, right? [SPEAKER_00]: You need somebody that's going to be your rival. [SPEAKER_00]: That's going to get you going.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you're going to gain confidence of your troops, you need to go through some challenges. [SPEAKER_00]: As they observe their leader to be effective in problem situations currently faced, they come to expect that he will be effective in meeting future situations. [SPEAKER_00]: And just imagine when you overreact, freak out, don't solve the problem, guess what they expect in the future, the same damn thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I love that they use the word observe, over and over again. [SPEAKER_00]: They're observing their leader, over and over again, they're observing. [SPEAKER_00]: They consequently will depend more and more on him for guidance and direction expecting that it will enable them to act successfully. [SPEAKER_00]: This is the meaning of confidence. [SPEAKER_00]: It is a basic ingredient of loyalty.

[SPEAKER_00]: It will go far toward carrying an unseasoned unit through its first engagement. [SPEAKER_00]: And another way I like to describe this is winning. [SPEAKER_00]: Like people like to be on the winning team when you win, you get loyalty. [SPEAKER_00]: Simply stated, the problem of any leader is to inspire his followers to achieve maximum results with minimum friction within the group. [SPEAKER_00]: That's pretty obvious.

[SPEAKER_00]: The ability to motivate men stems largely from the ability to understand them. [SPEAKER_00]: That is, the leader must understand the personal values, aspirations, goals, and beliefs of his subordinates before he can understand how to best interact with them in order to motivate them to an outstanding performance. [SPEAKER_00]: This does not mean he must agree with these values and beliefs, but only that he must understand them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Understanding enables him to predict how his men will react to his leadership actions. [SPEAKER_00]: So something I've been talking about a little more lately is we always talk about with decentralized command. [SPEAKER_00]: People got to understand why they're doing what they're doing. [SPEAKER_00]: And I say you as a leader, you just don't need to make sure they understand your why you need to understand their why. [SPEAKER_00]: Why are they here?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because if Eccles just here to get paid and he's got a family and he wants to go to Wrestling tournaments on the weekend, like I'm not going to be mad when you say, oh, I can't work this weekend. [SPEAKER_00]: But if Eccles is a [SPEAKER_00]: At a point in his life, his family's already, you know, don't have a family yet or whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, oh, I'm, I'm here to, I'm here to make money, I'm here to get after it. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm here to get promoted.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Cool. [SPEAKER_00]: I know you're why. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So you have to understand why people are doing what they're doing in order to properly motivate them. [SPEAKER_00]: And this is a different form of motivation. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, this is like the self-motivation. [SPEAKER_00]: And this is how do you get people to move in the right direction?

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, we'll get into that, get the move it in the right direction of volunteer relief. [SPEAKER_00]: Fast forward here. [SPEAKER_00]: Effective unit performance in combat depends on many things among the most important are the confidence A men have in one another and in a weapons on the one hand and their confidence Respect and trust a nearly drawn other hand.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what it is already been mentioned Units in units lacking these critical elements of confidence Performance in combat is likely unreliable [SPEAKER_00]: The men are likely to be subject to exaggerated fears of both real and imagined dangers, and to be overly concerned for their own personal welfare. [SPEAKER_00]: Further, they will be less capable of withstanding the stresses of combat.

[SPEAKER_00]: The man who feels psychologically alone on the battlefield, because he has not learned to trust his fellow soldiers and his leader, is likely to feel overwhelmed by the dangers he faces. [SPEAKER_00]: That is, if he does not feel himself to be a member of a real team, in which each man can count on the support of others in the time of need, he is much more likely to feel that the danger and threat of the forces opposing him are more than he can handle.

[SPEAKER_00]: From such feelings spring despair and psychological defeat. [SPEAKER_00]: It has been observed that in many of the great historical battles the army defeated. [SPEAKER_00]: The defeated army actually broke before physical contact was made and suffered the majority of its casualties in the pursuit that follows. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why we strive to unify teams and bring them together, build those bonds because that's the most powerful thing in that team.

[SPEAKER_00]: Confidence in each other. [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to get the job done. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say seal training. [SPEAKER_00]: Pretty deep in the process. [SPEAKER_00]: Like they've been through a majority of the process and they quit and people are Oh, do they do they talk to them? [SPEAKER_00]: Do they give them another chance? [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like no No Because that person has broken the bond like we can't count on you. [SPEAKER_00]: It was cold. [SPEAKER_00]: It was wet.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was miserable. [SPEAKER_00]: You were scared. [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever the thing was [SPEAKER_00]: You quit. [SPEAKER_00]: And now, if you're with me, I don't trust you. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a problem. [SPEAKER_00]: The question then is how does the small unit leader build psychological steel into the spines of his men? [SPEAKER_00]: How can he produce the inflexible will that leads to domination and subsequent destruction of the enemy?

[SPEAKER_00]: These are probably three of the or two of the [SPEAKER_00]: Psychological steel into the spines of his men, and how can he produce the inflexible will that leads to domination's subsequent destruction of the enemy? [SPEAKER_00]: Napoleon, after Waterloo, was observed to have said that he lost primarily because he said, because his men had not eaten bread together often enough prior to the battle.

[SPEAKER_00]: Said another way, they had not learned to trust and depend on one another. [SPEAKER_00]: They had not yet become effective units. [SPEAKER_00]: They had not yet become willing to suffer injury or death rather than see their units beaten. [SPEAKER_00]: They did not have the psychological steel of will that mean that sustained men in combat. [SPEAKER_00]: This kind of stamina is no less important today that it wasn't Napoleon's day nor is it any easier to develop.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now what's interesting about that was it says we didn't spend enough time eating bread together. [SPEAKER_00]: That's wrong. [SPEAKER_00]: You don't develop those kind of bonds of steel by going out to dinner with people. [SPEAKER_00]: You have to go through something harder than that. [SPEAKER_00]: That can be a little a little [SPEAKER_00]: frosting on the top of a cake. [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably not even the frosting. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like sprinkles.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like coconut flakes. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's a tiny little bit. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we ate we ate dinner together. [SPEAKER_00]: I can go eat dinner where someone I have no bond with them whatsoever. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just just how. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think? [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe because I'm kind of looking at this whole thing comprehensively. [SPEAKER_01]: where eating dinner together, eating bread, whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like the downtime, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And so if you look at it as a whole, it's kind of like, wait a minute, it might be just as important, but you can't, it's not important without the others. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, then it becomes kind of a nothing thing. [SPEAKER_00]: So like, are you about to talk about working out? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's the same thing right where it's like, no, no, like your muscles built when you were a card and you know mechanical tension all this stuff It's like not no, not really that is the important part of it But the recovery is part of it as well the recovery and the you know in the nutrition whatever So it's kind of the same thing whether if there's or if overall and you know me, but I don't know

[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't, you know, but maybe though, because I kind of could feel this kind of stuff because you went through football practice exactly right and we all ate together too, so What you do is comprehensively you have this big system right and the system is meant for development right development and then for a certain task to be overcome whatever

[SPEAKER_01]: through that development, which is kind of what I said, I forget if it was on air off air, but I was like, I kind of started to think where, yeah, you can go through hard stuff together, but the real important part is the hard stuff has to be part of a process of development. [SPEAKER_01]: That's why you make friends in school, cause you're growing up together, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if it's like, okay, military is a big, a perfect example of that, right, so you're going through this developmental process that's hard and all this stuff, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And then in combat, same thing, right, you're trying to achieve this going through this hard, but then the recovery part of it as well, where you guys can like debrief and [SPEAKER_01]: You know, rest together and like, you know, so it's like you guys are going through this process on all sides, you know, not just the hard part and then you guys retreat and then, you know, debrief with your family who wasn't there by the way, kind of a thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, yeah, it definitely is a part. [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably not quite as a mirror of working out because that's facing you. [SPEAKER_00]: If you worked out with no rest, you would just die. [SPEAKER_00]: So, and I guess, similarly, if you just get put through the, through the crucible over and over without any recovery, you'd, you'd die as well. [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, it's not quite a one-to-one, but you're certainly right, but here's the thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I say this all the time, you know, when I talk about people have build relationships with your people because that's what they're talking about. [SPEAKER_00]: Build relationships with people and be like, oh, I'll ask them out for lunch or I'll, will we get a cup of coffee? [SPEAKER_00]: That's not how you build relationships. [SPEAKER_00]: You need to do something with them and you need something overcome things, you need to face challenges.

[SPEAKER_00]: And those challenges allow you to trust us in respect and influence and care. [SPEAKER_00]: They allow you to show people we care about them, they allow people to, you know, put trust in each other. [SPEAKER_00]: It's those things that you're going to go through like in combat. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, you were next to me in the Fox on one combat and you stayed with me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now where we have trust, uh, I was about to go do something and you were like, don't go yet and I listened to you. [SPEAKER_00]: Now we're listening to each other. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's all these things that they have an opportunity to, to manifest when you're in the going through something hard.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then once you go through something hard, yeah, taking a little bit of time to to break bread or whatever, but if, if, hey, we're getting ready for war and what we did was go out for dinner every night. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's like, that's like, oh, I'm gonna get, you know, big and strong, but you don't live. [SPEAKER_01]: You just get the right things and sleep. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you would get away. [SPEAKER_00]: You would gain weight, but it wouldn't be effective.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not effective. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that, I don't know, I mean, maybe we're saying the same thing. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I feel like they might be equal only in this case and maybe in the maybe maybe not equal, but I don't want to understate it only because like when you think of like even a relationship with a friend or your wife or anything like this it's kind of like oh yeah [SPEAKER_01]: We've been through hard times together, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, oh, that's very compelling. [SPEAKER_01]: But if you went through equal good times together, but that's going to be double compelling. [SPEAKER_01]: What if you only went through hard times together and just like, let's say you went 80%, 80%, 80%, 80%, 80, hard, 20, good. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, breath, kind of flimsy, a little bit. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's the same thing as like, only going through good times together.

[SPEAKER_00]: Would you can like do something really fun with someone? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's not quite as good. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not quite a tight of a bond as you did something hard. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, and then yeah, and then if you do something hard together, it's like kind of flimsy kind of, you know on stable or something like this, yeah, I make sense. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, maybe like I said, I think I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm certain to think like it's a 50 feet. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's going not going to sit here and argue percentages, but it is not worth it, but the main thing is is that there's components of it and they're both important as you like to say. [SPEAKER_00]: Go back to the book here. [SPEAKER_00]: Similarly, the ability as a leader to develop individual soldiers rugged enough to withstand combat and to weld them into effective units is not easily gained.

[SPEAKER_00]: Such an ability perhaps can be compared to with that of a rare mechanic who can tune a grand pre-racing car to the point that it yields extra power to produce a winner. [SPEAKER_00]: Such a man is highly sensitive to the state of the machinery with which he works. [SPEAKER_00]: When he listens, he hears sounds that others do not hear because they have not learned to hear them and distinguishes those sounds that are meaningful from the background din of sounds that mean nothing.

[SPEAKER_00]: In the same way, when the leader tunes his unit for outstanding combat performance, he must watch and listen for all those things that are meaningful disregarding those things. [SPEAKER_00]: It means nothing. [SPEAKER_00]: Analysis of the leadership abilities of successful leaders leads to the conclusion that they have learned what to listen for and the action to take for each meaningful sound, unsuccessful leaders for one reason or another, have not.

[SPEAKER_00]: Pretty cool analogy there. [SPEAKER_00]: And uh, uh, there's a lot of sound coming out of a seal, but you know, it's a lot of things are getting said and which ones are important and which ones are not, and recognizing how do you, oh, that sounds important. [SPEAKER_00]: What do I do to deal with that sound? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there's another loud noise, but it doesn't even matter. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have to do anything.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: A vital next question is how the leader gets this ability. [SPEAKER_00]: Are some men born with it? [SPEAKER_00]: or can all men learn it given an opportunity. [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, no one can answer these questions without with any absolute degree of certainty.

[SPEAKER_00]: The outstanding, the outstandingly effective leader may well have been born with a particular combination of physical characteristics that enable him as he grows older to learn to lead others as he does. [SPEAKER_00]: On the other hand, this may not be true, careful analysis of the characteristics of great leaders has failed to identify consistent, dramatic characteristics that are typical of all great leaders and not typical of all other persons.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that you can study all these people that are all different. [SPEAKER_00]: Each had his own particular brand of greatness, which was composed of a unique balance of personal characteristics.

[SPEAKER_00]: On the other hand, there is a little question that each of these men, on the other hand, there is a little question that each of these men was able to rise to the demands of the crisis situations, both to solve the tactical problems of confronting them and do inspire their support and it's to work together to achieve the necessary objectives. [SPEAKER_00]: Fortunately, these skills, these are skills that can be learned by most, if not all, who aspire to become effective leaders.

[SPEAKER_00]: that kind of reminds me of you know like in jujitsu where someone that's super flexible develops a whole game around being flexible someone that's super strong develops a whole great someone that's super big develops a gamer on that and even you know this is a little bit more narrow but like pitching a baseball and some people like you ever seen a side-armed pitcher yeah like they that's not the technical way to do it but it's however their body works and so they make it work and so

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the same thing with leadership. [SPEAKER_00]: You've got to figure out how it's going to be and how you're going to use these moves. [SPEAKER_00]: Some of them aren't going to be effective. [SPEAKER_00]: Some of them are. [SPEAKER_00]: Of these two skills, the ability to solve technical problems and to inspire subordinates to achieve objectives, the second will be the primary concern of this text. [SPEAKER_00]: It perhaps is the more difficult to learn.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that makes sense. [SPEAKER_00]: The basis for this skill is the ability to understand motivations, beliefs, desires, and even fears of one subordinates. [SPEAKER_00]: The leader must know the reasons for the actions his men take, why they behave as they do. [SPEAKER_00]: He must understand why some of his men readily develop a wide circle of friends and other do not. [SPEAKER_00]: Why some of his men seem willing to try anything while others fear to try the easy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why some of his men will do a good job with anything they try and why others will be satisfied with the least effort they are allowed to get by with. [SPEAKER_00]: These are human beings. [SPEAKER_00]: In short, a basic understanding of human behavior and motivation factors is essential to one who aspires to be a successful leader. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, here that sometimes. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, you win the seal team so everyone. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just an easy.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a totally different than the civilian sector And I mean I've debunked that theory a thousand times at this point But yeah, if you think in a seal patoon There's not some guy that's just trying to get by with a bare minimum and some guy that's actually trying to never mind the bare minimum There's a guy that's trying to straight up avoid work straight up.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's in a damn seal patoon And there's some overachiever that's wants all the credit and trying to get promoted. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. [SPEAKER_00]: They're all in there and they're everywhere And there's some guys. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh and a seal patoon. [SPEAKER_00]: Those guys will overcome fear no [SPEAKER_00]: No, not true, guys gonna be afraid. [SPEAKER_00]: Some guys won't be.

[SPEAKER_00]: How well do you understand human behavior so you can make all this mix all these ingredients together and get a high performing team? [SPEAKER_00]: There are laws that govern the behavior of men when they interact. [SPEAKER_00]: One squad member does not start from scratch when he begins to interact with another squad member on the day he joins the squad.

[SPEAKER_00]: Though much learning will happen from this first day on, the learning that occurs will be built on the foundation of prior experience. [SPEAKER_00]: For example, the child has learned much from his parent and other adults both in home and in school and how about how he can and should react to those who have authority over him. [SPEAKER_00]: he has developed attitudes towards authority figures, as well as toward persons he regards as is equal.

[SPEAKER_00]: These attitudes will determine in large part how he behaves towards such persons. [SPEAKER_00]: And if the small unit leader recognizes and understands these and other kinds of attitudes, he will be able to much better tune his subordinates to work effectively as a member of the team. [SPEAKER_00]: So there you go, you're going to have a bunch of different people. [SPEAKER_00]: How are you going to tune him?

[SPEAKER_00]: In addition to understanding of the attitudes, beliefs, and values of his subordinates, the effective leader must also understand his role within the unit. [SPEAKER_00]: He must understand what his men expect of him as a leader and why. [SPEAKER_00]: This implies more than simply understanding one's subordinates. [SPEAKER_00]: Units have leaders for important reasons.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is, leaders serve important functions for the units they lead, understanding and acceptance of these functions or responsibilities are essential to success as a leader. [SPEAKER_00]: You gotta know what your job is as a leader. [SPEAKER_00]: fast forward here, prediction of behavior. [SPEAKER_00]: It is reasonable to wonder why the ability to predict the behavior of others is either useful or essential to a leader.

[SPEAKER_00]: In the typical small military unit, it would seem on the surface that the leader merely needs to analyze the military situation he faces, determine the best solution, and tell us men what to do. [SPEAKER_00]: Right? [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I'm a military leader. [SPEAKER_00]: I see the situation. [SPEAKER_00]: Here's what we're going to do. [SPEAKER_00]: However, things are rarely quite this simple.

[SPEAKER_00]: Individual morale and unit-esprit decor play an important role in determining how well and how reliably assigned duties are accomplished. [SPEAKER_00]: A accomplished, morale, and esprit decor in turn affect are affected in a major way by the manner in which the leader interacts with his unit. [SPEAKER_00]: Thus, the leader must always keep two things in mind.

[SPEAKER_00]: One is giving orders, guidance, and instructions in a manner that members of his unit clearly know what is desired and how to do it. [SPEAKER_00]: This is the technical part of his job. [SPEAKER_00]: The second is making his actions positively affect the morale of his men and their motivation to accomplish assigned duties.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, the whole thing, that's the whole, that's all, that's all, that's what it's all, this is about everything that you and I have talked about on this podcast for 10 years, it's guess what, it ain't simple, it's not, hey, here's the, we got to ambush these people, here's go, go set up the ambush like this, nope, there's all kinds of things going on, because that point man, it's like, I don't really think we should put the ambush over there, and your second in command is like, we shouldn't be doing an operation site where tired from last night, and we can just go on and on and on from there bro,

[SPEAKER_00]: The value of high morale cannot be over-emphasized, though it is influential in determining the extent to which men will do a good job in any assigned mission, it's important as a factor in unit performance increases under stressful conditions. [SPEAKER_00]: It also affects a spree and the degree to which the leader can rely on as meant to continue working toward a accomplishment of the mission if something happens to prevent him from further supervising the unit work.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, you gotta get that team moving and regardless of what happens to you, they gotta keep moving. [SPEAKER_00]: And experience leaders, as experience leaders know well, in some units the loss of the leader sometimes results in a complete loss of direction and effort. [SPEAKER_00]: In other units, loss of the leader has much less effect on the desire of the unit to achieve its objective.

[SPEAKER_00]: While morale and a speed of core are not the only differences between such units, they are major factors. [SPEAKER_00]: This in turn is largely a result of how the leader typically has interacted with his men in the past. [SPEAKER_00]: A lot riding on that leaderman building that a speed of core, keeping that morale high.

[SPEAKER_00]: Most of the leaders interactions with his men concerned their performance on previously assigned duties and the duties they must perform in the future. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's, you know, if every action interaction I have, the majority if you work with me, the majority of interactions we have are probably going to be around what we're doing. [SPEAKER_00]: Our job.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is, most of the time he's talking with the subordinates, he will be talking about matters relating to assigned duties. [SPEAKER_00]: That is, about things they must do are doing or have done. [SPEAKER_00]: the way he interacts with his men on such matters and of course their reactions to his manner will have a substantial effect on the extent to which he can rely on them to do good work without close supervision. [SPEAKER_00]: So what is all that saying?

[SPEAKER_00]: What kind of relationship you got with your troops? [SPEAKER_00]: That's what it's saying. [SPEAKER_00]: What kind of relationship have you got with your troops? [SPEAKER_00]: Because if you don't have a good relationship, they're not going to do what you want them to do and they're definitely not going to do if you're not there. [SPEAKER_00]: Fast forward a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: Few leaders can say there has never been a time that they wish they could unsay something they just said. [SPEAKER_00]: In the heat of an argument, in the midst of a crisis situation, or when smarting from a stinging review from one's own senior, it is the rare leader who never says something that insults offense or downgrades his own subordinates. [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of a bummer. [SPEAKER_00]: Again, it is reasonable to ask just how important this is in a military.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what difference does it make that is meant or insulted offended or downgraded? [SPEAKER_00]: Can you just order them to do good job anyway on the next assignment? [SPEAKER_00]: There you go. [SPEAKER_00]: People think it's the military is like, oh, you're all mad and frustrated, doesn't matter. [SPEAKER_00]: You work, you know, you're a subordinate to me. [SPEAKER_00]: So I ordered you to do something, you just do it. [SPEAKER_00]: Don't want it that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: The answer to this is pretty clear, even if given a direct order, [SPEAKER_00]: How much a man actually wants to do a good job is going to have a lot to do with how well the job is done. [SPEAKER_00]: Since the leader's behavior toward his men has a lot to do with their motivation, it will also have a lot to do with how hard they try to do well on assigned duties.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thus, the leader must be concerned with how his actions affect his men and their motivation to do good work. [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I say every time I interact with someone on my team, I'm trying [SPEAKER_01]: that leadership capitals. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that is leadership capitals all day. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to put deposits in the leadership capitals bank account. [SPEAKER_00]: And we have a little warning.

[SPEAKER_00]: One caution here, though, is that this does not mean that he should try and be popular with his men. [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing could be worse. [SPEAKER_00]: This should illustrate in part why the ability of a leader to predict the behavior of his men accurately is an important asset. [SPEAKER_00]: One of the main things he will be predicting is their reaction to his leadership.

[SPEAKER_00]: If he can predict accurately and if the prediction for a given situation is that they will react in an undesirable manner, he can change his plan. [SPEAKER_00]: So if you know that what if I know that walking into you and yelling at you about something is just going to make you resentful and mad, I can change my plan, maybe I shouldn't be yelling at you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes of course there's no way easy way out of a situation if so leader has no choice but to put a mission first and take the result as best he can, however most of the time. [SPEAKER_00]: If you can think ahead and predict accurately, he will be much better able to control the reactions of his men by controlling his own behavior and the situation. [SPEAKER_00]: ownership.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like how you behave as a leader has such a huge impact on what's going to happen with the troops. [SPEAKER_00]: However, this is interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: Predicting the reactions of his men is only part of the problem, though it is a major part. [SPEAKER_00]: The second part is predicting his own reactions, both to [SPEAKER_00]: their reactions to other members of the unit and to problem situations they encounter.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really like the idea of, are you able to predict your own reactions? [SPEAKER_00]: And this is, you know, are you going to lose your temper? [SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to do you know that you tend to overreact on things? [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know that you tend to overplan? [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know that you get hyper-focused? [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know that you get target fixation? [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know that you talk down to people? [SPEAKER_00]: Like all these things?

[SPEAKER_00]: knowing how you are going to react is in my mind it's actually more important to know how they're going to react but they're all I'm not going to have a percentage battle with you but they're all important yeah it does make sense so like you been like being forgetful for example I mean I'm thinking of all these all the stuff in terms of non-military applications we'll say

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, if I'm like, oh, yeah, if I come up with some plan, then I don't know, I'm gonna teach my son how to do X, Y, Z and I'm like, okay, I know. [SPEAKER_01]: It's gonna be up to me, you know? [SPEAKER_01]: Cause he's not, it's pretty rare, he's just gonna be fired up long term for something but I like I doesn't know, you know, what he's even gonna do tomorrow. [SPEAKER_01]: So he doesn't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's up to me, but then if I'm like, hey, I know I kind of forget about this stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, you know how the day will just go by that another day and it's like, Brian, we didn't go wherever, you know, to go train for the thing in like days. [SPEAKER_01]: And if you know you're like that, you know, I feel like you can take some measures. [SPEAKER_00]: Yo, definitely you can take measures. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what that's what this is saying.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what we have to take measures. [SPEAKER_00]: In many cases, in many of these cases, thinking about the situation and his own personality characteristics might have enabled him to predict accurately what his own behavior would likely have been. [SPEAKER_00]: I forget things a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: I need to put an alarm on my iPhone, so I remember that today is the day we're going to go through mountuscapes, whatever the case may be.

[SPEAKER_00]: If done far enough, I had such thinking might enable him to avoid the situation or change [SPEAKER_00]: The third point, the third of the points above predicting reactions of subordinates to other members of the unit and the situations will receive a good deal of treatment. [SPEAKER_00]: This is, among other things, the ability to anticipate the actions of his men in difficult situations or orders that they might receive.

[SPEAKER_00]: The advantage of being able to predict such actions is that the leader can often take action to better control his men at such times to help keep them out of trouble and even to change the reactions to orders and situations they would like a wise dislike very much. [SPEAKER_00]: So, there you go. [SPEAKER_00]: Knowing your people, knowing yourself, that's what this is, and then knowing like the team, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because the individuals might react one individual might react another way, but how's the whole group? [SPEAKER_00]: How's the group as a whole going to react? [SPEAKER_00]: It should be clear that a central theme in this discussion is the ability to predict, predict, enables the leader to remove the element of surprise from leadership problem situations. [SPEAKER_00]: Surprise is no less important in these situations than in tactical situations when confronting an enemy force.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tactically, the offense carries the initiative because if executed properly, it carries the element of surprise. [SPEAKER_00]: The unexpected is effective not only because it masses the attacking force while the defender must distribute his forces by gas, [SPEAKER_00]: But it also carries an unnerving quality that limits the ability of the defender to reply effectively with the force he has.

[SPEAKER_00]: In contrast, if the attacker's intentions are known ahead of time, thus depraving him of the element of surprise, the defensive force often will gain the upper hand by a decisive margin. [SPEAKER_00]: That's why the element of surprise is so important. [SPEAKER_00]: That's why it's really crazy when like Hicks and Gracie tells five different black belts.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna arm lock your left arm because it is really hard when you tell somebody what you're gonna do to them and then you try and do it those are some skills right there. [SPEAKER_00]: Similarly, the ability to anticipate and predict accurately the behavior of others will enable the leader to remove the element of surprise from their reactions to him and to leadership situations of which they are part.

[SPEAKER_00]: By being prepared for the reactions to the leader not only control, it's own behavior better, but also can better control the behavior as men of his men as he interacts with them. [SPEAKER_00]: This is why I roll plays a good thing going through some roll play and also I Think this is a lot of this stuff people are probably doing somewhat intuitively.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're somewhat going to intuitively like oh When I tell my kids that you know, we've got to do yard work today I know they're not gonna be happy. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a Saturday whatever like we kind of are intuitively doing this stuff [SPEAKER_00]: but when you are intuitively doing something and then you identify it, and now you can be more intentional about doing it.

[SPEAKER_00]: As the previous chapter indicates, an essential element that precedes the ability to predict the actions of others is understanding their beliefs, attitudes, motives, and so on, said another way, this is the ability of the leader to put himself in the place of his subordinate and then accurately estimate how his subordinate is reacting.

[SPEAKER_00]: it is the ability to see the situation as his subordinate does given this he can make some pretty good guesses as to how as to what his subordinate thinks about the situation and how we'll react. [SPEAKER_00]: This is perspective. [SPEAKER_00]: This is one of those things. [SPEAKER_00]: It's in the extreme ownership leadership loop. [SPEAKER_00]: One of the steps is perspective understanding as many people's perspective as you can on this decision that you have to make.

[SPEAKER_00]: How's this gonna affect the front line troops? [SPEAKER_00]: How's this gonna affect the mid-level managers? [SPEAKER_00]: How's gonna affect the people on this other team? [SPEAKER_00]: How's it gonna affect my boss? [SPEAKER_00]: What is it gonna think of this? [SPEAKER_00]: So you need to understand other people's perspective. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that sometimes I feel like, and I'm speaking from my own experience back in the day.

[SPEAKER_01]: where I'd be like, hey, I think of someone else's perspective, but it's still from my perspective, just from their position, you know? [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, like, for example, I mean, there's a small example, but it's real, where it's like, okay, I'm gonna get my brother a gift for Christmas. [SPEAKER_01]: And I get him something, actually I did this to my current life, which was my girlfriend back in the day. [SPEAKER_01]: So, I got her a surround sound system.

[SPEAKER_01]: She wasn't like all that fired up about it in her mind. [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, I don't care about surrounds on, but guess it does. [SPEAKER_00]: Guess who it was like, best gift ever. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, for it was for her house. [SPEAKER_01]: It's the same. [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, that's me looking at things from her position, not her perspective, you know. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, it's still your perspective.

[SPEAKER_00]: At least you didn't get her a vacuum. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what it's like, it's way different. [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know. [SPEAKER_01]: But valid, valid for sure. [SPEAKER_00]: Many inexperienced leaders make the mistake of trying to be popular. [SPEAKER_00]: One of the most used ways of attempting to be popular is to, quote, go easy on enforcing proper standards of excellence for the performance of the unit.

[SPEAKER_00]: The inevitable outcome is the leader's own senior, the leader's own senior eventually will note the lowered unit performance with the result that the unit will lose privileges or worse, and the leader will be reprimanded or worse. [SPEAKER_00]: Thus, a leader's easy-going treatment of his men will backfire and hurt both. [SPEAKER_00]: When his men get hurt, they will blame him for the hurt and distrust his leadership.

[SPEAKER_00]: The result will be that not only will he not be popular, but also he will have lost the respect of his men, so you gotta be careful of that one. [SPEAKER_00]: group influences on leadership behavior. [SPEAKER_00]: The various kinds of groups that have leaders can be attached, can be categorized into two types. [SPEAKER_00]: And this is what I talked about earlier. [SPEAKER_00]: There's a bifurcation, two types of leaders.

[SPEAKER_00]: On the basis of how the leader comes to have leadership status within the group. [SPEAKER_00]: In one type, the leader emerges from within the group. [SPEAKER_00]: In another type, he is appointed by someone [SPEAKER_00]: It is important to distinguish between these two types of groups because the leader actions and that are effective in one type may not be and often are not the kind of leader action that is effective in the other.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, here's where [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm going to make a statement here in a second. [SPEAKER_00]: So the source of the leader's authority in the emergent leader group, the leader at one time was one of the group. [SPEAKER_00]: At some subsequent time during the life of the group, he then emerged as an accepted source of influence within the group.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is, over a period of time, sometimes a short time, he became more and more influential with the group until he was finally, was either one of the most important group members or the most influential group member. [SPEAKER_00]: By influential is meant that if he suggests or asked or tells another group member to do something, it will be done. [SPEAKER_00]: If he proposes a course of action to the group, it will be approved by the group.

[SPEAKER_00]: If a group member is at loss on how to proceed, he will usually ask the leader, though he may ask sometimes someone else. [SPEAKER_00]: Thus, the leader is the one group member who is the most able to influence others. [SPEAKER_00]: And then the key underlying variable in this description of a emergent leadership, that's what they call this, emergent leadership, is the fact that the leader remains the leader only as long as he has influence over the majority of the group.

[SPEAKER_00]: He can be superseded at any time. [SPEAKER_00]: that another group member accumulates a greater base of influence and support within the group, thus the leader in an immersion situation must continually seek to retain his base of support and acceptance within the group. [SPEAKER_00]: This interestingly gives group members a substantial degree of influence over the leader. [SPEAKER_00]: The situation in which the leader is appointed in contrast is quite different.

[SPEAKER_00]: In most appointed leadership positions, the group is a part of a hierarchical organization. [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, organization that is many different levels within itself. [SPEAKER_00]: The leader of such a group is always chosen. [SPEAKER_00]: to be the leader by someone or some group of persons who are higher in the organization than the group concerned.

[SPEAKER_00]: In most cases, this person or these persons then are the source of authority to which the leader is responsible. [SPEAKER_00]: The leader may or may not have been a group member of the group before he was chosen a leader. [SPEAKER_00]: In either case, the group members will probably have had little to say about his being chosen as the group leader and they will have little power to replace him if they do not like him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thus, in such groups, the leader owes his position of influence to someone or some group higher in the organization. [SPEAKER_00]: If one speaks of the leader's source of authority, it is clear that this source for the appointed leader is someone who is his boss. [SPEAKER_00]: and indeed the organization itself. [SPEAKER_00]: This is a sharp contrast to the source of authority in emergent groups, which is the group itself.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thus if the problem of retaining the position of leadership is posed as who the leader must please, it is clear that the emergent leader must please the group itself. [SPEAKER_00]: This he does by behaving in accordance with the expectations of a majority [SPEAKER_00]: In sharp contrast, the appointed leader must please the organization for this is his source of continued authority.

[SPEAKER_00]: This he does by discharging their responsibilities given by the organization as the formal leader of the group. [SPEAKER_00]: The appointed leader is the personal, personal representative in the group of higher levels within the organization.

[SPEAKER_00]: His purpose is to ensure that the group fulfills its part of the overall objective of the organization by giving technical information and guidance where necessary to influence the ability of a subordinates and by using the rewards and punishments placed at his disposable by the organization to influence motivation. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so that's a massive chunk. [SPEAKER_00]: And here's where I am going to go with this, and this is something at the Council, echelon front council.

[SPEAKER_00]: I spent a big chunk of time this past year talking about what I didn't, I didn't use this term emergent leader. [SPEAKER_00]: I use the term primal primordial leader or primal leader. [SPEAKER_00]: And what I meant by that was you like when you're on a football team and there's the team captain right and he's appointed by the coach yeah and if he's appointed by the coach but he's kind of like weak or soft or a jerk he won't have the emergent leader following and what

[SPEAKER_00]: I believe as much as you possibly can as a leader you want to unify these things and you want to unify these things Because if you just get appointed to be put in charge of people and You don't have the respect of the team. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to be effective leadership [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so now listen, are there times at the phrase of, you know, where sometimes like a chaotic rare occasion, you know, the appointed leader has to say, listen, I know that this is going to hurt, but we got to do it because that's what the goals of the organization are. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, that does happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: And are there times where, hey, we're going to take care of the team and like, I'm going to have to sell the boss like, hey, we didn't make that happen because it was going to hurt the team too much. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so I don't see this as a full bifurcation at all. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's like just a balance that you're constantly trying to maintain and if you don't try and maintain it, you just like, well, corporate wants us to do this.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what we're doing. [SPEAKER_00]: And that's your attitude because you're appointed and you're trying to rep, you're the personal representative of the leadership above you and the organization itself. [SPEAKER_00]: That's going to be problematic. [SPEAKER_00]: So really think about that, how did you end up here? [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things that I pointed out with these primal leaders is it's based on the values of the group, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So, for instance, and they can be wildly different. [SPEAKER_00]: So for instance, if you and I or members of a biker gang, [SPEAKER_00]: And I've been to prison because someone in the Biker game got gotten trouble and I didn't rat them out. [SPEAKER_00]: So I went to prison. [SPEAKER_00]: Does your does the group value and respect for me? [SPEAKER_00]: Go up or down, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, if you and I were bankers, and I had gone to prison, because someone did something fraudulent, and I covered up for them, and you were working with me, would you respect when you go up or down? [SPEAKER_00]: You see what I'm saying? [SPEAKER_00]: So, you have to understand what these dynamics are. [SPEAKER_00]: And there are some, you almost completely universal. [SPEAKER_00]: things that earn respect. [SPEAKER_00]: One of them is, for instance, being on selfish.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right? [SPEAKER_00]: Selflessness is kind of a universal thing that everyone goes, oh yeah, you know, that person is not going to screw you over. [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to take care of the team. [SPEAKER_00]: Competency in your job. [SPEAKER_00]: Right, composing your job will get you some credit. [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a whole list of things that you could think about that, give you rank and leadership capital inside of a group.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's based on what the values of the group are. [SPEAKER_00]: And different, you know, GJ2. [SPEAKER_00]: Like there's like someone could be a black belt. [SPEAKER_00]: There could be another person that's a brown belt and the brown belt could actually be the more solid emergent leader because he's a better coach He's better instructor. [SPEAKER_00]: He could be better out of your jits.

[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, and he could be teaching people more and investing more in them And meanwhile the black belt is just he might have the rank, but he doesn't show up and all that other stuff

[SPEAKER_00]: So, my advice in this scenario would be as often as you can, you want to merge these two things, you want to merge them, and you want to utilize as rarely as possible, do you want to utilize your authority, you want to utilize your influence as a emergent leader, the vast majority of the time, all the time if you can. [SPEAKER_00]: Ah, so that's what I got there.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is interesting know that that way you just said about like you got to know the dynamics and the values of the groups for sure so like [SPEAKER_01]: You know this idea in the military, it's like different, but not that much different. [SPEAKER_01]: So like this idea of quote unquote being a hard worker, you know. [SPEAKER_01]: But sometimes if you're not in touch with the group, you can kind of demonstrate to be too hard of a worker. [SPEAKER_01]: You're for sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: It seems saying, but on the surface or on paper, you might be like, oh, I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: Basically, the harder worker, the better. [SPEAKER_01]: Really? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: When it comes out, but if you don't know, you can work yourself right out of the group, freaking this, you can't. [SPEAKER_01]: Society, you know, you can out shine everyone and they're like, dude, what are you doing?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: We just had an asshole on front meeting today and we're recording this you and I right now. [SPEAKER_00]: It's Friday, the Friday of a three day weekend. [SPEAKER_00]: And we had a little echelon front cadre meeting, we're going through some stuff and they're like, hey, Jock, are you got anything? [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, hey, we've been on here for half an hour. [SPEAKER_00]: It's Friday.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to be the guy that says, hey, teacher, do we have any homework this weekend? [SPEAKER_02]: Right? [SPEAKER_00]: And everyone laughed and I said, hey, if you don't everything to do, don't do it here. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying? [SPEAKER_00]: So I could have been like, hey, you know, I actually do some detailed information. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to put out to all you guys. [SPEAKER_00]: It's Friday, bro.

[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, some people on the East Coast, it's after noon, like they're ready to roll. [SPEAKER_00]: So what am I doing? [SPEAKER_00]: Got to gotta remember where that emerging group leadership plays in where that primal leadership You know what I talked about this to like the primal leadership that there's things like what you're able to Being strong is good. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean obviously being able to fight is good There is a pecking order.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a real thing [SPEAKER_00]: And listen, going back to the Jordan Peterson thing where, hey, if I'm the biggest chimpanzee, and I just beat all the other chimpanzees into submission, that's not leadership. [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, some of those smaller chimps will gang up on me and beat me, and one of them will take leadership role. [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not saying that. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's a component.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a component that's real and so that's like John and sort of in the Seal team's that's kind of job competency, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Because you're essentially Supposed to be able to like fight other dudes like that's part of what your job is.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you can't really fight other dudes Yeah, you know, it's a little now listen you you doesn't mean you need to be the biggest strongest guy [SPEAKER_00]: But you can't just be like a pushover, you know, yeah, you don't want to be you don't want that

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's very granular, we'll say, for lack of editor, where, yeah, you want to be the bet, let's say, like, good at fighting, we'll say, and down to fight, too, because that's like another additional thing for, you know, with capability, but you don't want to be over-demonstrating that all the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Seems like saying, so it's like, you got to have this power, but then, so it's like the difference between like power and control, you know, kind of a thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so it starts to become like a different thing though because it's like demands like a performative demonstrator, you know, like Like the idea of I want to be able to Let's say you have a friend right and you guys go everywhere go places together You you want him to know how to fight.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but you don't want him to be fighting everybody all the time You seem saying so it's like this weird dichotomy in that way. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if you go too far with anything, then like you can't take this guy anywhere, that's a problem. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's almost like it gets 22.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not even a catch just a balance of the economy of leadership, like if you, if I go with you and I know that if something happens to me, I get jumped, you're going to have my back and you're going to help me win a fight, because you're not on a fight, that's cool. [SPEAKER_00]: If everywhere I take you, you're taking a swing at the balancers and running your mouth and getting problems all that, that's going to suck.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's like, but also if you're like a person that like, oh, I get jumped and you're gonna run away That's not good either. [SPEAKER_00]: We want to be balanced.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's bad Yeah, no, I guess I'm looking at it kind of on the surface where it's like yeah, you want you want your friends to be down to fight But not all the time and in fact the more they are down to fight Practical sense where it's like the more they actually do get into fights, which proves you're down to fight by the way [SPEAKER_01]: the bad and the worst it is. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and a certain point.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So, balance those two things, this emergent leader, this primal leader with this appointed leader. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the way it is. [SPEAKER_00]: And you know another thing that happens is people get jealous. [SPEAKER_00]: A pointed leaders get jealous of emergent leaders. [SPEAKER_00]: And they start to try and smash them down. [SPEAKER_00]: And that doesn't why not just make that person your ally. [SPEAKER_00]: Bring them on board.

[SPEAKER_00]: Bring them on board. [SPEAKER_00]: the role of the leader. [SPEAKER_00]: Back to the book, the role of the leader in these two different kinds of groups is determined by group goals, group member goals, and his own source of authority and influence within the group. [SPEAKER_00]: The emergent leader owes his authority and influence to a majority of the members in the group.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is responsible to them, and must please them in order to retain his influence and I will tell you that you should keep that in mind even as an appointed leader. [SPEAKER_00]: The key variable in pleasing group members typically is his ability to manage the resources of the group in order to further the individual goals of the group members.

[SPEAKER_00]: The appointed leader on the other hand owes his authority to the organization, however the source of his ability to influence the group members is somewhat more complex than [SPEAKER_00]: Influence does not follow simply because the organization appoints him to a position of leadership Though this has a lot to do with his having influence and I've always tell people like leadership capital You barely get any points for your rank barely like you get some but you don't get a lot

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of what they're saying here. [SPEAKER_00]: They say they say the opposite a little bit, though this does have a lot to do with his having influence, doesn't have as much as they're saying. [SPEAKER_00]: Has some. [SPEAKER_00]: The actual source of his influence stems from his success and mediating between the organization and members to group, this is I agree with. [SPEAKER_00]: This is very important.

[SPEAKER_00]: On the one hand, he must manage the resources of the group to accomplish in the most efficient manner, the possible, [SPEAKER_00]: In the most efficient manner possible, the mission or goal assigned to the group. [SPEAKER_00]: And on the other hand, he must obtain for individuals within the group rewards from the organization that are commensurate with their contribution to achievement of group goals. [SPEAKER_00]: So that is true.

[SPEAKER_00]: You as a leader are going to be constantly trying to balance what you're taking away from the team in order to accomplish the mission. [SPEAKER_00]: And then what do you give them back? [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, it's can be something very simple like, oh, if we do this right now, we're going to get some rest. [SPEAKER_00]: That's reward.

[SPEAKER_00]: It could be as simple as that, but then it could be as big as, oh, we're going to get bonuses if we close this deal, like all those things. [SPEAKER_00]: The two general functions of the military leader, the leaders actions of us must accomplish two general functions, one. [SPEAKER_00]: And this must be the first priority, is to ensure that his unit achieves objectives set for it by his senior officers.

[SPEAKER_00]: If these objectives are not attained, his unit may be or become a weak link that jeopardizes army attainment of overall goals. [SPEAKER_00]: Of next importance, he must ensure that the needs of his men are met. [SPEAKER_00]: If they are not met, the army will cease to be attractive as a career. [SPEAKER_00]: And the resulting loss of potential career personnel will decrease operating efficiency and combat readiness.

[SPEAKER_00]: The leader of course has many other functions, but these must be considered the two primary responsibilities of the military leader, and I Really put these things Like almost on par if not on par because if you just a Composition but you burn out your people it you're not it it's you're gonna you might accomplish the tactical mission, but not the strategic one So that's why I met a fact I'll say I think these two things are on par however

[SPEAKER_00]: What I will say is there are moments in time when one supersedes the other and there are other times when the other supersedes the first. [SPEAKER_00]: So there are times when I'm gonna focus on and prioritize taking care of the guys and there are times when I will prioritize and focus resources on getting the mission accomplished.

[SPEAKER_00]: Those are two things that are going to sometimes be a priority but if you just all the time prioritize the mission you're gonna burn your crew out.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, not to mention, just taking casualties, getting people killed, but whatever in the workforce, might be just getting people to leave the company because you're freaking stressing them out so bad, but you have to balance those two, those two are equal, and you have to know when to, when to press the gas on one of the brakes and the other, when to put the brakes on that one, and put the gas on the other, very important thing to think about.

[SPEAKER_00]: There is a clear cut distinction between the emergent leader who owes his position of influence to the group, he leads, and the appointed leader who has placed in a position of responsibility and authority by the organization of which the group is part.

[SPEAKER_00]: And again, it's just so important to remember that if you're in a leadership position mentally, [SPEAKER_00]: you need to frame it that you work for the troops, that you are, that you work for the troops, and that you're, they, they own you. [SPEAKER_00]: You work for them. [SPEAKER_00]: You hear people say that. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like serve in leadership, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: The appointed leader owes his authority to those superior to himself and authority and is responsible to them for the efficient management of his resources placed in his disposal to accomplish the assigned missions. [SPEAKER_00]: His primary responsibility thus is to obtain effective group performance in his accomplishment of the such missions, a second responsibility is to obtain for the members of his group the rewards they have earned for effective performance.

[SPEAKER_00]: Both functions must be done well as leadership's be successful. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and again, I think that you as a human, as a leader, need to be both these things and the men and the mission are both equally important. [SPEAKER_00]: And you need to figure out when you lean into one and when you lean into the other. [SPEAKER_00]: Importance of accurate and clear guidance.

[SPEAKER_00]: When the platoon leader is the main link between the company commander and the platoon, the accuracy and clarity with which he provides guidance for the platoon is critically important, especially in the army, which has the authority to punish poor performance if this is necessary in order to achieve stated goals. [SPEAKER_00]: Satisfactory work performance is a very important goal for the men.

[SPEAKER_00]: If their work meets required standards, they get rewards offered for this good work. [SPEAKER_00]: If on the other hand their performance is poor, some of many of these rewards will be denied. [SPEAKER_00]: In addition, the men may run the risk of being disciplined for not being in the standards. [SPEAKER_00]: Pretty straightforward. [SPEAKER_00]: making a group up and fast forward and they're making group operation automatic.

[SPEAKER_00]: The platoon leader will generally have another important goal in view as he guides platoon activities. [SPEAKER_00]: The leader of any work group platoons included should always attempt to make the operation of his group more and more automatic. [SPEAKER_00]: That is, he should attempt to train the group so that it can function as well without him as with him. [SPEAKER_00]: Makes sense that's decentralized command.

[SPEAKER_00]: As the appointed head of his unit, the platoon leader is the trustee of the efforts of his men. [SPEAKER_00]: He's responsible for guiding their efforts so that they will meet the performance expectations of his own seniors.

[SPEAKER_00]: This requires that he a fully understands these expectations, b translates them into clear and accurate guidance, his men can understand, and c evaluate both ongoing and completed work in terms of established performance standards, so that errors or omissions can be corrected. [SPEAKER_00]: before final evaluations are made. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what that's what leaders doing. [SPEAKER_00]: And I really like the idea of the translation.

[SPEAKER_00]: You got to understand it and then you got to translate it so they understand it. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what a leader is doing. [SPEAKER_00]: And now we get into motivation and personal need of all the areas of leader actions to be covered in this text. [SPEAKER_00]: That of motivating performance is perhaps more important than any other. [SPEAKER_00]: Men can be motivated to do good work in any number of different ways, some good and some bad.

[SPEAKER_00]: Depending on which method he uses, the leader can build a unit that prides itself in the quality of its work and will work equally well with or without his immediate supervision. [SPEAKER_00]: Or he can build a unit that does not value good work except in so far as it promises some immediate gain. [SPEAKER_00]: So clearly, what do we want, we want a team that has intrinsic motivation, not just discipline. [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, if you don't do this echo, yeah, I'm going to punish you.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, echo is going to do it because he knows that that's the right thing to do. [SPEAKER_00]: He knows the value of it. [SPEAKER_00]: He knows the rewards that he's going to get. [SPEAKER_00]: This is kind of the opposite of me saying for all these years, don't worry about motivation. [SPEAKER_00]: It's about discipline. [SPEAKER_00]: That's self-discipline and self-motivation. [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I actually don't want you doing something because of discipline.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want you doing something because you are intrinsically motivated to make it happen [SPEAKER_00]: using force as a motivator. [SPEAKER_00]: How can a man be motivated to do good work if he does not value the available benefits? [SPEAKER_00]: This is a problem military leaders have faced for centuries, probably from the date the first civilian was conscripted for military duty.

[SPEAKER_00]: The general solution to this problem has been a system of disciplinary actions that the army can legally take to force the civilian soldiers to do its well. [SPEAKER_00]: Thus, if he does not obey orders and does not carry out assignments, the civilian soldier legally can be deprived of his remaining freedoms and in some cases even his life, we will kill you.

[SPEAKER_00]: threats of such losses are powerful, powerful motivators and generally are sufficient to get compliance with orders that is necessary to carry out assign missions. [SPEAKER_00]: While it is unfortunate that this is the case, is nevertheless, it is true that such a system of disciplinary acts must exist in order to ensure that orders are obeyed and that assignments are completed. [SPEAKER_00]: So, there you go.

[SPEAKER_00]: However, [SPEAKER_00]: The existence of such a system of authority is by no means an indication that it's used constitutes the proper way to motivate one's men. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_00]: On contrary, on the contrary, it is a makeshift way to elicit good performance and should be saved as a last resort for those who cannot otherwise be induced to do good work. [SPEAKER_00]: The reason is rather simple.

[SPEAKER_00]: When threats of punishment for poor performance are the leader's primary means for securing good performance, the men learn rather quickly that the objective is not really to good work, but rather to avoid getting caught doing good work. [SPEAKER_00]: Further they learn rather quickly those things for which they are likely to get caught. [SPEAKER_00]: The end result is a unit that requires extremely close supervision for effective performance and that's terrible.

[SPEAKER_00]: Indeed, this is very likely the origin of the old military maximum close and continuous supervision is an absolute necessity. [SPEAKER_00]: That's terrible.

[SPEAKER_00]: Simply stated in a unit motivated primarily by fear and punishment for poor work performance decrements are likely to occur in the leader's absence if there are ways of covering them up and because the leader cannot be everywhere once there's a strong likelihood that is unit eventually will become well versed in the looking good as opposed to being good. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think going to a section here where they break down three general categories of recruits.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and what do they end up with? [SPEAKER_00]: Career-minded volunteers. [SPEAKER_00]: This is a small group for two reasons. [SPEAKER_00]: Very low percentage of 18 to 19-year-old males in our society have made stable career decisions. [SPEAKER_00]: This is the second is that an elicited career, unfortunately, is not considered attractive on among many levels in this society. [SPEAKER_00]: Again, this is written in 1944.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh no, 1965. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't agree with that. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm all about it. [SPEAKER_00]: Drafties were unwilling volunteers. [SPEAKER_00]: The members of this category have fairly well formulated career plans relating to this civilian economy or have decided for other reasons that the army is not for them as a career. [SPEAKER_00]: This group constitutes a staggerally large percentage of all recruits. [SPEAKER_00]: and they finally miss fits.

[SPEAKER_00]: These persons may be either drafts or volunteers in either case, they can be recognized by the fact that they probably have not made satisfactory adjustments in their home, school, lives, or civilian economy prior to reception in the army. [SPEAKER_00]: They are wanderers, fleeing from one unsuccessful adjustment attempt to the next. [SPEAKER_00]: The odds are very low that they will adjust in the army any better than the civilian economy.

[SPEAKER_00]: and then it goes on to say career-minded volunteers are positively motivated from the start and value the good things the army has to offer they are already motivated the leader's problem mainly is to ensure their enthusiasm for the services not destroyed by unskilled subordinate leaders

[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny how that happens in a civilian company as well, like you get someone young person that's all fired up to do something and then they end up working for a jackass or a terrible leader and they don't want to do that anymore It's especially in this day and age.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's so many opportunities people can you know you can send out your resume on whatever there's so many ways to review of you other job opportunities and people just pounce you know in the old days [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you've got a job at some place, you're locked in, you're going to stay there for 38 years. [SPEAKER_00]: You don't watch or whatever when you left.

[SPEAKER_00]: Most draftees also present no motivational problems for the effective leader, though for a different reason than given for the potential career soldier. [SPEAKER_00]: Even though draftees might want very much to get out of the army, these persons generally have sufficient emotional maturity to realize that they are now in the army. [SPEAKER_00]: They're required to do their bit to serve their country, and there's nothing they can do to change the situation.

[SPEAKER_00]: Once accepted, [SPEAKER_00]: This realization enables the emotional, emotionally mature, individual to make the best of his current situation regardless of what that is. [SPEAKER_00]: So there you go. [SPEAKER_00]: That's like, you know, you're basic, too. [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, we don't have drafts these anymore. [SPEAKER_00]: And then finally the misfit.

[SPEAKER_00]: Misfits are difficult to handle because they fundamentally motivationally are fundamentally motivational failures. [SPEAKER_00]: In the process of growing in adolescence, the child generally finds that his parents and other adults exert pressures on him to behave in certain ways. [SPEAKER_00]: This process is called socialization. [SPEAKER_00]: Through it, the child learns to behave in ways considered adaptive in the adult world.

[SPEAKER_00]: The difficulty of the child is that the child is the only one who is the only one who is the only one who is the only one who is the only one who is the only one who is the only one who is the only one who is the only one who is the only one who is the only one who is the only one who is the only one who is the only one who is the only one who is the only one who is the only one who [SPEAKER_00]: The difficulty is that this process is not full proof.

[SPEAKER_00]: If, in his early home environment, a child finds few constructive ways of reacting adaptively and of winning parental approval, he's likely to try to find other sources of approval. [SPEAKER_00]: This most often is a group of children approximately his own age, finding such approval and acceptance fills a need. [SPEAKER_00]: that seems highly important to the individual. [SPEAKER_00]: However, there are difficulties here also.

[SPEAKER_00]: First, approval from outside the family strong, strongly tends to reduce the need for parental approval. [SPEAKER_00]: Thus, the child finds it less necessary to do things at when parental approval and the socialization process is curtailed. [SPEAKER_00]: Second, [SPEAKER_00]: Approval from other children tends to be based on actions that are antagonistic to adult values and the desires of the parents. [SPEAKER_00]: This further curtails the socialization process.

[SPEAKER_00]: In some individuals, this results in a set of personal values and taginostic and antagonistic to the general values of society and the adult world. [SPEAKER_00]: For present purposes, the critical element of deviancy is that these individuals have not learned that they can earn [SPEAKER_00]: the things they want by conforming, conforming to the accepted function of the social system.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they're breaking it down to the damn childhood, which the crazy thing is is like, there's so many kids that grew up in really terrible situations with no parents, you know, single parents, parents that were, you know, single parent but working all the time, basically like kids grow up without much of parents and they grow up freaking awesome. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of an interesting take.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I still maintain that that's like the vast minority of troubled kids. [SPEAKER_01]: I think the other, I think there's exceptions for sure, but I think most people grow up like jammed up become jammed up. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's a normal pipeline. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that being said, some people that grew up in nice homes get jammed up.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so there's probably like some fundamental factors that if they exist, even semi-consistently, you can be fine in one way or another. [SPEAKER_01]: That's what it feels like. [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever that handful of things are, it's not money, it's not, you know. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not these superficial things. [SPEAKER_01]: It's something in there that's consistent.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like well it goes on to here to say ordinary motivational methods may not work with these individuals particularly over short periods of time. [SPEAKER_00]: Their general attitudes will illustrate the difficulties involved who wants a lousy promotion. [SPEAKER_00]: Ha, I really don't want to pass anyways. [SPEAKER_00]: What do you care whether I think, whether you, what do I care, whether you think I did a good job? [SPEAKER_00]: Who are you anyways?

[SPEAKER_00]: What do I care if you yell at me? [SPEAKER_00]: That's nothing new. [SPEAKER_00]: Proper handling of these isn't that crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: I can just remove the the like punishment. [SPEAKER_00]: If you just say you don't care about it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, it becomes ineffective. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I remember when my son was literally gotten trouble and I like went super hardcore in the paint on him and like put him on a very strict regimen and he was really young.

[SPEAKER_00]: This was, this was a lot, but then like I started giving him some of his privileges back and then he did something else. [SPEAKER_00]: It was a little bit. [SPEAKER_00]: He was like six years old, maybe, maybe something that was kind of out of line and I was like, hey, you know, this kind of thing happens. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to have to get strict with you again. [SPEAKER_00]: And he looked at me and he said, maybe that would be best for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh, dude, come on, make me tough. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was like, damn, dude. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to do that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was talking to Anthony that unchange fit. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he went to prison and stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: And then so you know, like you get this just real general concept. [SPEAKER_01]: Like you know, you get people who are very like what he called repeat offenders.

[SPEAKER_01]: And some people like they know they're gonna go to jail like if they do XYZ They know like probability's pretty high, but they care a lot less Yeah, let's say they're like me like I'm like, I don't want to go to jail Like that's kind of the last place But if you've already done 12 years and you don't really have much on the outside you're like, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: That second part right there and this is what we were talking about where if you don't have that much on the outside On the inside because you get stuff on the inside like you get you become an emergent leader

[SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean meaning like you get the system you start to understand it you understand how it works You're about because you did a certain thing like exactly right and this like imposition of like now your in jail versus outside That you know like I'm imagining because I never been to jail or prison I'm imagining hey I'm free one moment and then the next moment I'm not free like that's an imposition of my whole thing right that goes away after well

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, yeah, I've been here like three times already before this is like routine. [SPEAKER_01]: Some of these guys even know I had no this guy or he's soon saying so it's almost like they have something in in jail and he was saying Some people they actually have a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: They have more in jail than they do out of jail and we don't think about that like really every day But think about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: What if most of your friends are like in jail or what if people like kind of like he said because some people are more influential in jail So like people listen to her [SPEAKER_01]: Imagine that where you go outside knows this into your kind of like, like, kind of would rather be in jail. [SPEAKER_00]: Remember the shank redemption? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Institutional is like, I just want to go back in there. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Let me back.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I understood what they meant in the movie, but I was like, probably just a movie. [SPEAKER_01]: Same same. [SPEAKER_01]: But when you kind of think about it and talking to Anthony about it, I was like, brother, that makes so much sense. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just so different because I'm not used to that kind of stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this can be hard when your biggest threat is like you're gonna go to jail.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like okay, whatever, in effect, you know, factor in, yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, thus the leader's dilemma is that when he confronted on the one hand with a few individuals who will not work for positive incentives and on the other hand with the realization that he must in some manner make them work.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and again, I think if you build relationships with people and you start giving them some letting, because one thing that you mentioned is like you can earn, like you can earn, respect in other ways, and showing people how they can become an emergency leader, putting them in charge of things, understanding that they have value, because they don't know that.

[SPEAKER_00]: That happens to a lot of people myself included, like when you join the military and it's like, hey, if you just do these basic things over here. [SPEAKER_00]: If you set your locker up correctly, you'll be rewarded. [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, oh, because in the civilian world, it's like, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, when you want to go to college, you've got to get these grades. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a test. [SPEAKER_00]: Like there's all these things.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make no sense, you know? [SPEAKER_00]: So you're like, whatever, dude. [SPEAKER_00]: And then you get in the military. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, no, just put your locker like this and you'll be rewarded. [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, okay, I can do that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so how can you teach someone for the first time?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, here's what hard work will give you here's how it's not hey echo If if you don't do what I told you do you're not going to be able to leave basis weekend It's said being like hey dude, if you do what I told you to do once you get done with that We're gonna have the opportunity to do this do what oh, well you'll get this. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, why? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, because that's the way it works.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I didn't understand that So as much as you possibly can [SPEAKER_00]: use that honey instead of uh what is it shit I think honey ship one of the keratin stick yeah use more care if you can use of negative seff it's even with miss fits negative incentives must be used to care says the same thing [SPEAKER_00]: It is important to remember that the objective is never to create excessively strong fear.

[SPEAKER_00]: This would work to the detriment of the soldier's ability to do good work by making it worry too much about the possible consequences of failure. [SPEAKER_00]: The more you worries, the less time you as available to think about what he's doing, the more likely is to do to fail.

[SPEAKER_00]: If negative incentives are to be used as they must sometimes, the objective should be used the smallest force that will ensure the desired outcome, minimal force required up and saying that for a long time. [SPEAKER_00]: One of the best illustrations of proper limits is the constructive use of punishment that appears in parent child relationships as the child develops from babyhood he must be socialized. [SPEAKER_00]: That is he must be taught the dues and the do nots.

[SPEAKER_00]: If he can be taught these to the use of positive incentives alone, this is by far the best way. [SPEAKER_00]: However, positive incentives alone will almost never be enough before the child learns to talk well. [SPEAKER_00]: He cannot be reasoned with. [SPEAKER_00]: He must be discouraged from the do nots, either with a roar of disapproval, sufficient to discourage him or the swat on the backside.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I've never spent my kids, but, and it's so I don't recommend that, and they've proven that it doesn't really help. [SPEAKER_00]: After the child learns to talk, he needs another period of time to learn that there are desirable things he can do to earn parental approval and that not all such approval implies. [SPEAKER_00]: During this period of learning, he still must be discouraged from the do nots by force of necessary.

[SPEAKER_00]: And by that mean, like, if your kid is going to go near the light sockets right, or kids going to do something dangerous hazardous, going in the street, that kind of stuff you might have to, you might have to tighten them up.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what to the back side or the stick as it were that can come in a lot of many Many forms so I would argue that some of the Forms of the stick that you told me about that you are worse than I think that I've my kids have told me that worth it Spank it yeah, even me imagining is worse than spending just getting shut [SPEAKER_01]: It's like too much right there. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I look back.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, yeah, the shunning was a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: You know? [SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot for adults. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, if you have, like, friends, I don't know what, you know, and you're mad at someone. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like psychological, like, a form of torture in a way.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like, if you're, let's say if you're mad at me, and even you, I mean, you, [SPEAKER_01]: You're a little bit different, but in this sense, not really, because even if I have like a normal friend, we'll just say. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think, oh, shoot, is he mad at me? [SPEAKER_01]: And he's just not addressing it. [SPEAKER_01]: He's just sort of a little bit more quiet. [SPEAKER_01]: It torments me. [SPEAKER_01]: I just want him to, hey, if you're mad at me, just yell at me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Same scene. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like that kind of stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: Or like, okay, this is what my dad would do. [SPEAKER_01]: He's spanked us, but it was very predictable. [SPEAKER_01]: He's very disciplined with his spanking suits. [SPEAKER_01]: Like you get three spanks, you know, there's a procedure. [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, hey, you go pee, wait in your room.

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't realize this to a later, but that process, you know, the procedures, go pee and then go wait in the room, so waiting in the door first. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what made it ten times right. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean really It's facet. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean I remember getting spanked.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean it's yeah hurt, but it was more scary Seems like this big freaking adult coming up freaking beat me and I got a weight for that thing bro [SPEAKER_01]: So, like I said, the spankings, okay, it is what it is. [SPEAKER_01]: Seems like you get over the spank, you're not injured, nothing like that. [SPEAKER_01]: But waiting for that psychological, those things are worse. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sure there's a lot of those.

[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't even know if I'd recommend. [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of these psychological, because psychologically, I feel like that can scar you. [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, that's the part that scars you, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Because this face, it pride. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't smell, I mean, I spanked my son once for, what was it for? [SPEAKER_01]: It was for a hurting his sister out of anger. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, and it was her phone.

[SPEAKER_01]: But he was like, he was like three or four or something. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I felt so bad. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, what is this? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, I'm a grown man, like, and I'm not weak either. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what am I doing? [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was like, there has to be a better way. [SPEAKER_00]: It's what I thought there is definitely a better way. [SPEAKER_01]: but probably beat that little kid up all the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's all with fun. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, in Jiupera, one time he tried to like toughen up in Jiu-Jitsu in a good way, by the way. [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, okay, good. [SPEAKER_01]: And I made a mernet, probably beat him down. [SPEAKER_01]: Like bad. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he was laughing. [SPEAKER_01]: He was like having fun with positive. [SPEAKER_01]: So because psychologically, it was like constructive. [SPEAKER_01]: Totally.

[SPEAKER_01]: Seems like I could have done way less. [SPEAKER_01]: If I ignored him all day, like it would probably scar him for like years. [SPEAKER_01]: If I just ignored him, same thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Sean. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a logical enough. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think the best thing to do is like if you can if you can detach and have good conversation to with your kids That's the protocol, man. [SPEAKER_00]: Just like hey, here's what's going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let them understand the why explain things to them That is that is certainly the best way to handle things and if things ask late Like sometimes kids just go sideways, you know and you might have to escalate your punishments and stuff like that And that's when I start talking about privileges like everything that your kid has is a privilege, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So, what can you remove, how can you get them, earn it back, but you know, all these things you have to be very careful, just like I said earlier, if what you're doing is damaging a relationship, it's not good. [SPEAKER_00]: Your relationship should be improving when you interact with your kids. [SPEAKER_00]: So, to challenge the closeness of this analogy to the use of rewards and punishments in the platoon is so great that it will not be amplified further.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like basically like these [SPEAKER_00]: The important elements are making clear what is expected, making clear the system of rewards and punishments, emphasizing the use of positive incentives whenever possible, and applying the system, impartially, fairly and consistently.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just as parents socialize children, the leader who does these things not only will maintain enthusiastic motivation among his well-adjusted men, but also will be able to reclaim a surprising number of misfits. [SPEAKER_00]: you can get a back motivational factors as might be deduced from the material present. [SPEAKER_00]: A soldier's motivation to do good work is dependent on four factors. [SPEAKER_00]: The soldier's feeling he can succeed if he tries.

[SPEAKER_00]: His feeling that his leader will recognize his good work either tangibly or intangibly. [SPEAKER_00]: The value replaces on that recognition. [SPEAKER_00]: His estimate of the probability that he will be punished if he does not try. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, the one thing that is not on here, and it does, it does get to it, but I can't believe it's not in these factors, is not wanting to let your team down.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because that's to me is that's number one, you know, the number one thing for me is like, oh, echo expects me to do this, I do not want to let you down, you know, like that's the number one, I don't want to let my group down. [SPEAKER_00]: So they, but they do get to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: While an individual is said to work primarily for tangible benefits in the sense that he must have those these to live, one of his chief goals in actual practice is to feel that he is important and worth something to someone else. [SPEAKER_00]: One important source of this feeling is to believe that the work is important to others. [SPEAKER_00]: This is kind of what I was just talking about.

[SPEAKER_00]: The leader can create this by praising men for work well done so they get to it But it's definitely not as strong as I would think it would be and even you know You hear this all the time about military You don't do it for the flag you don't do for the country do for the guide you're left near to your right.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what this is talking about [SPEAKER_00]: and then it goes further here group support beyond the material things and additional important category of positive incentives is available to leader almost all well adjusted adolescents and adults in this culture have learned the value of group support and value the esteem of their peers very highly as an indication that they are supported. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I was talking about, and then they had given an example here.

[SPEAKER_00]: A company commander was concerned with the lagging manner in which his company responded to the turnout whistle for Revoli. [SPEAKER_00]: First call was 10 minutes prior to the second call, and the men often barely made the assembly. [SPEAKER_00]: One morning he told his men that he was surprised, the last man to make formation each morning was so modest at all other times. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, hey, man, I'm surprised that, you know, you're usually so modest.

[SPEAKER_00]: He went on to explain this remark by saying that the last man obviously considered himself so important that he could keep the rest of the company standing waiting for him in the cold first light of the morning. [SPEAKER_00]: He further pointed out that the last man was not carrying his fair share of the total company load. [SPEAKER_00]: This was not said, threateningly, either.

[SPEAKER_00]: Rather, he discussed the matter half seriously in half and just, but this company commander was respected for his technical competence in running the company and for his fair treatment of the men.

[SPEAKER_00]: What he said started them to talking about the last man, being the last man, and taking a free ride on his buddies' shoulders, sooner developed a noticeable reluctance to be the last man to make formation in the morning to the extent that two or more men would often attempt to leave the barracks at the same time.

[SPEAKER_00]: But more important, the men became so proficient at accomplishing their morning chores and so well motivated to do them rapidly and well that the company eventually made formation each morning in less than three minutes. [SPEAKER_00]: And he goes on just to say, this technique is dangerous to some extent because it encourages comfort competitiveness within the unit and may invite the scorn of the unit for the last man.

[SPEAKER_00]: Skill is required to keep the competitiveness from becoming dangerous. [SPEAKER_00]: It might eventually become disruptive if it reached a point of throat cutting and to protect the last man from scorn if he is giving his best. [SPEAKER_00]: This particular commander had these skills, so good example, let's see. [SPEAKER_00]: distinction between motivation and ability. [SPEAKER_00]: Work performance is in general the product of these two overall factors, ability and motivation.

[SPEAKER_00]: While those are not completely independent, it is convenient at times to consider them so. [SPEAKER_00]: Thus, if ability is high, but motivation is low, performance will be low. [SPEAKER_00]: Performance will also be low if ability is low even though motivation is high.

[SPEAKER_00]: One of the leader's greatest problems is reacting appropriately to poor performance primarily because it is often questionable to which of these two factors, low ability or low motivation, the poor quality of the performance should be attributed. [SPEAKER_00]: So, you're either doing this, you don't have the ability to do it, and that's why you're failing or you're not motivated to do it right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why they goes on to say, ability failures should not be punished. [SPEAKER_00]: Of these two types of errors, the first is far more serious. [SPEAKER_00]: There are at least three reasons for this. [SPEAKER_00]: First, if a man gives his best fails, then is punished. [SPEAKER_00]: one can be quite sure he'll never try that hard again. [SPEAKER_00]: If he's going to be punished for failing, he might as well be punished for not trying as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Second, if he fails because of a lack of ability, his failure is not entirely his responsibility. [SPEAKER_00]: Rather, it is mainly the responsibility of the leader who assigned him a task beyond his limits of his abilities. [SPEAKER_00]: Thus, if a man gives his best and is still punished for failing, his motivation to try next time will be sharply reduced and further, [SPEAKER_00]: Those are really key points. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, remember like on a karate kid.

[SPEAKER_01]: You've watched karate Yeah, but it's been a long time. [SPEAKER_01]: That was what separated that the bad instructor where he punished Johnny for losing He was doing his best to punish them beat him up in front of everybody. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but yeah, that's all right Like I mean they say that I think I don't think that's I mean I hear that all the time where it's like hey [SPEAKER_01]: You do your best.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's really what counts or whatever, but I think yeah, I think and I'm sure it's like harder What do you call easier said than none kind of a thing because you're like I want to get a Succeed or whatever So it might come down to like an emotional thing, but Brad does seem when you think about it Especially when it's like laid out like that's like Brad does seem real damaging [SPEAKER_01]: Real, real not good because it's true, and I told you this too.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was talking to Jason Gardner about this. [SPEAKER_01]: Where I Think I ran into that in my own head when I was young, where when I saw people trying their best and still like losing And this is more like in sports or PE or free sets or whatever, you know, they're trying so hard. [SPEAKER_01]: They're still like losing But it looked real bad So it's like man, if you can try your best and still lose, probably you better

[SPEAKER_01]: Not display that you're working so hard because you can lose and look double bad So I'm saying and then I kind of worked out in my idiot brain where I'm like, hey, if I pretend that I'm not working hard And I win I look double good So I'm saying and I think kind of when you pull the thread I think that's why I kind of have this persona of like laziness because it's like a lot of his performatively easy Yeah, I see you do it

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even realize I was doing it until kind of well into adulthood and I remember thinking like, yeah, because that's why because like, you know, when you're like struggling, you such a hard worker, but you still lose it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, what the hell's a matter with you? [SPEAKER_01]: Like what's wrong with you? [SPEAKER_01]: That no matter how hard you try, you keep losing. [SPEAKER_01]: It was like that kind of mentality.

[SPEAKER_00]: People get caught in that trap too where they like try and then they lose and they look even worse. [SPEAKER_00]: So there's like, I'm not going to try anymore. [SPEAKER_00]: But then you know, you had at least be pretending [SPEAKER_00]: to not try, but actually trying, some people just give up. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if they talk about the before, it's like easier just to flip the chessboard over. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you know what?

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a stupid game. [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. [SPEAKER_01]: And rejects the whole, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, what I did, obviously, I don't, I'm not going to like self-analyze my whole thing, but I do know this that I did get the taste of like winning. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess maybe being a little bit [SPEAKER_01]: What I ended up doing a big part of it is I would prepare and work hard in private secret. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, one No one was like when no one could see right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, yeah, it was funny cuz Jay my brother would always tease me if he'd see me like doing push Oh, he's trying to do some push-ups, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, okay, so I went I'd go in the bathroom You know, when you know somewhere else I'd lock the door and I'd do push-ups in there [SPEAKER_01]: So no one could tease me and then when we started when we grew up and started lifting weights Oddly, and I was smaller than him. [SPEAKER_01]: I was born smaller than him.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was just smaller than the whole time Oddly I could bench a lot more than him when we started lifting weights. [SPEAKER_01]: Same same stuff paid off. [SPEAKER_00]: Do your push-ups [SPEAKER_00]: Back to the book, the third reason is provided by a look at the consequences of assuming incorrectly that a given failure is the result of inadequate ability. [SPEAKER_00]: The correct remedial step for an ability failure is generally extra training, usually given on the man's own time.

[SPEAKER_00]: In cases in which the man can try harder if he wants to, [SPEAKER_00]: Giving extra training will have a motivational effect. [SPEAKER_00]: He will try harder next time in order to avoid the loss of his free time. [SPEAKER_00]: Extra training will thus not backfire even when the leader has incorrectly judged the reason for failure. [SPEAKER_00]: The loss if it seems as though a given case is sufficiently ambiguous that a clear cut decision cannot be reached.

[SPEAKER_00]: There are very good reasons for giving a man the benefit of the doubt, reacting as though the performance failure was the result of a lack of ability to do better. [SPEAKER_00]: And following up with extra training either during duty hours or the man's own time, it is highly important that a man never be punished for an ability failure. [SPEAKER_00]: He's always be commended for his effort and help to do better.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like one of those situations where it doesn't really matter because the protocol is the same. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Like hey dude, obviously need some extra training. [SPEAKER_00]: We can help you out. [SPEAKER_00]: We're here. [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, this is a tough thing, tough thing to get down. [SPEAKER_00]: So we got you. [SPEAKER_00]: And they need to go shit. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to have to do that again. [SPEAKER_00]: So they put out the next time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or they get better because they get the extra help. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, perhaps the single most important single caution is that suggestions from subordinates. [SPEAKER_00]: And this gets into leadership, I fast forward at a bunch here, perhaps the most important single caution is that suggestions from subordinates should always be given courteous attention. [SPEAKER_00]: And again, this is like a totally different topic here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Completely aside from the fact that this will probably result in better unit performance. [SPEAKER_00]: Suggestions generally are indications that the NCO, non-commissioned officer that's a burden. [SPEAKER_00]: Cares enough about his unit's performance to speak up. [SPEAKER_00]: It shows personal interest in what's going on. [SPEAKER_00]: If the platoon leader does not give suggestions, courteous treatment.

[SPEAKER_00]: Whether or not they are good suggestions, he will destroy the man's interest and cutoff future suggestions to the eventual detriment of the platoon. [SPEAKER_00]: So when one of your subordinates offers you something, an idea, one of they say, give it courteous attention always, listen to your people. [SPEAKER_00]: And what I say is, as often as I can, I'm going to implement whatever they're trying to make happen. [SPEAKER_00]: When I figure out a way to make get it in there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, if it's freaking totally tacked and we go and sound or unsafe or immoral and ethical, we're not doing it. [SPEAKER_00]: But the vast majority of time, we can take some recommendation from them. [SPEAKER_00]: We can put it to work. [SPEAKER_01]: Let me, let me get your thoughts on this. [SPEAKER_01]: This is just a total hypothetical, obviously.

[SPEAKER_01]: So let's say, or something along these lines, where let's say you're the leader, and your subordinate, we'll say one of your subordinates, gives the suggestion. [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, hey, that's an, in your mind, you're like, that's a 79% solution right there. [SPEAKER_01]: But we're gonna implement it, and we do it, and it works.

[SPEAKER_01]: to a degree you know pretty much right it passes will say doesn't excel but it passes right and now they feel empowered which is a good thing but then now they start to be like extra empowered like hot is there a line there where you kind of got to be like hey maybe I won't accept

[SPEAKER_00]: this solution from the this type of person to all you got to do is first of all when they do it and it works let's be stoked but when you do it in your works but it's only worth it like a 7% solution cool we do a good debrief asked emergency questions they make a couple adjustments we got a 90% solution [SPEAKER_00]: the next time we get a 95% solution.

[SPEAKER_00]: If the person starts to become arrogant, cool, give them a little bit more of a challenging problem that's slightly outside their capabilities zone, and they get a, they get to try it, and it's a low risk evolution. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: They bomb, and we go, hey man, maybe you know what, code is good. [SPEAKER_00]: You were, yeah, we don't even have to say that, because they know. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's what you just said.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's kind of what I was looking for like the answer Where it's like when they become arrogant because that can happen I see I can see that happen where it's like oh hell yeah, I'm in power now. [SPEAKER_01]: They don't realize it You know at first it's just like oh yeah, I guess I kind of got this you know like freaking jockel gave me the green light on this idea for what other [SPEAKER_01]: He has no idea all these ideas I have, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Then you sort of step you up in meetings at all this stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: And after a while, you're like, bro, calm down, like your thing was a 79% solution. [SPEAKER_01]: Every single time. [SPEAKER_01]: Meanwhile, everyone else has their ed freaking 90s and hundreds over here. [SPEAKER_01]: And we're just throwing you a bone and you're over here, fricking, gobbling up all the bones. [SPEAKER_01]: See what I'm saying?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Just apply a little bit more pressure. [SPEAKER_00]: Lifeful, you know, we'll humble them. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, really. [SPEAKER_00]: Humble. [SPEAKER_01]: It'll sort of sort itself out.

[SPEAKER_00]: uh... it is important also to emphasize that suggestions from subordinates post no real or implied threat to the platoon leaders control over the platoon even the newest private can recognize the existing differences in rank and legal authority and will act accordingly when the chips are down it should be obvious that unthinking and initiative less obedience is though thing to be feared not disobedience

[SPEAKER_00]: So the worst possible thing that can happen is unthinking and initiativeless obedience. [SPEAKER_00]: We don't want that. [SPEAKER_00]: We do not want that at all. [SPEAKER_00]: Going forward here, handling the sharp shooter. [SPEAKER_00]: You know the sharp shooter is, we actually escalated that to be colon with sniper.

[SPEAKER_00]: Another kind of problem for the experience between leaders, the sharp shooter, who gets a perverse pleasure [SPEAKER_00]: to all that his platoon leader is inept. [SPEAKER_00]: This man can be recognized by the fact that his suggestions will always be given publicly so others can hear and in a manner calculated to embarrass the platoon leader. [SPEAKER_00]: He rarely will make suggestions in private.

[SPEAKER_00]: This poses a problem particularly if the public suggestions are constructive and good. [SPEAKER_00]: The decision that a man is sharp shooting must be made with a great deal of care. [SPEAKER_00]: It is embarrassing. [SPEAKER_00]: If the embarrassing comments really containing constructive content, the decision is much easier. [SPEAKER_00]: That is, there's less doubt the man's purpose. [SPEAKER_00]: However, if the comments, as suggested above, are constructive and good.

[SPEAKER_00]: There may be considerable doubt over a fairly long period of time. [SPEAKER_00]: The alternative possibility always exists that the man is sincere, but either tactless or grossly unconcerned with others' feelings. [SPEAKER_00]: In experience, Paltoon leaders may incorrectly judge such a man to be malicious because they tend to be defensive about their lack of experience in tactical knowledge and running a Paltoon.

[SPEAKER_00]: The result is an of an incorrect judgment in this case will be to eliminate a good source of good constructive suggestions when a more appropriate course would be to teach the man to behave tactfully. [SPEAKER_00]: This does, like sometimes just, guy just has a bunch of good ideas he's chiming in and it pisses off that leader who now is going to go haywire.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that term sharpshooter is just for someone who behaves like this, you're not saying [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, the sharpshooter, someone that behaves like this. [SPEAKER_00]: That's like, they've got proof and someone's like, uh, what's a good one? [SPEAKER_00]: So, if one vehicle goes down, what are we doing with the, yeah, people were taking off target.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's like, you know, like, that's a legitimate question, but also like the tone and the whole nine yards. [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of stings, especially if you're, if you're, if you've got a big ego, [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, you get frustrated instead of being like, hey, no, it's a good good point. [SPEAKER_01]: It's funny because I don't know that I've witness someone who is this. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, the sealed teams has freaking sharp shooters like all day.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, makes sense. [SPEAKER_01]: I've I've seen it happen But not to the extent where it's like, oh, this person always does this, you know, but oh, I see people do this all the time And it's that's interesting how they just laid that out so clearly because it's absolutely true. [SPEAKER_01]: Where if it's like if they're only [SPEAKER_01]: Sharp shooting or shooting out the problem, you know, with no solution or it was like it's obvious. [SPEAKER_01]: Now you're just complaining.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, these guys show up and you just two classes, by the way. [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, the people that I the people that I did is one of the few things that bothers me is when people that just don't they don't know anything right. [SPEAKER_00]: Because a lot of times, if someone's a sharpshooter in a GG2 class, yeah, they can do, they definitely do this.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yours is unique and I actually understand why this is irritating because you're right, they're ignorant sharpshooters. [SPEAKER_01]: They don't have the knowledge, they don't even know what they don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: So they're like, well, what if, yeah, what if they do this? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's called a defense and there's 94 counters to that. [SPEAKER_00]: And there's another thing that's called a do told another position.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like, yep, yep, yep, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: fast forward. [SPEAKER_00]: However, if the platoon leader is convinced that he is run into a sharpshoor, he must ask act quickly to correct the situation or run into a chance of losing respect of from the other NCOs.

[SPEAKER_00]: While they may personally hold the sharpshoor and contempt among themselves, they will probably view the whole thing as a contest between him and the platoon leader and will be equally contentious of the platoon leader if the sharpshooter wins. [SPEAKER_00]: Now again, my look at that is like why am I going to, I'm not going to compete with the sharpshooter.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say, I'm not going to say, well, actually, no, if we have, if the, we'll call hellows, I, you know, like trying to, no, I'm not going to, I'm be like, hey, that's a really good point. [SPEAKER_00]: Let's make sure we think through the contingencies after this brief. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So you didn't win, you made a good point and I was hopeful, I was, I was glad.

[SPEAKER_00]: The principle of that, if the platoon leader, the principle is that, if the platoon leader is not clever enough to find out what is going on and to do something about it, he's not deserved their respect. [SPEAKER_00]: Perhaps the best first, and I was kind of interested in what they were going to give for recommendations here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Perhaps the best first step to stop a sharpshoer is to tell him privately the reasons for his behavior are known that this behavior is having a disruptive effect on platoon morale, and that future suggestions must be made more discreetly. [SPEAKER_00]: However, the leadership avoid a display of uncontrolled emotions at all times because that would probably actually please the sharpshooter.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and Jesus, like, hey, man, you got some really good suggestions, but like we're trying to give a brief and it's, you know, if there's other people in there, it's like we may not look prepared. [SPEAKER_00]: So can you sit down with a brief before we get up there and like go through with me and make sure that we cover everything? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, pretty easy.

[SPEAKER_00]: This talk may solve the problem because a large part of the sharp shooter's pleasure is usually derived from the thought that the platoon leader does not know what is going on. [SPEAKER_00]: That is he's being made of fool or that he has been or that he's made the platoon leader lose some some of his self control. [SPEAKER_00]: When the game gets into the open, a part of the pleasure will be gone. [SPEAKER_00]: and only the most perverse sharpshooter will continue.

[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, if he does, further measures will be necessary. [SPEAKER_00]: One might be to give perfunctory replies to the man's future suggests as a manner implying little actual consideration. [SPEAKER_00]: For example, that might be interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: While reacting favorably to good suggestions from everyone else, however, a little platoon leader should be careful not to pull rank on the man.

[SPEAKER_00]: As for example, by assigning this man to the dirty jobs in the platoon, this would be resented by the rest of the NCOs. [SPEAKER_00]: Fortunately, this is about the only thing that would be resented. [SPEAKER_00]: All they want is a fair fight. [SPEAKER_00]: If the platoon leader can win, the fight by skill rather than rank, which they feel he may not yet have earned, he will generally win their respect at the same time.

[SPEAKER_00]: So pretty decent ways to handle the sharp shooter and also interesting that they refer back to like respect and not just using your rank and being an emergent leader fast forward here. [SPEAKER_00]: taking care of one's men. [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds trite to say that the leaders should make sure that his men get hot meals in the field whenever possible, or that they are maximally rested when operating tactically.

[SPEAKER_00]: However, trite or not, many leaders apparently are not sufficiently concerned with such matters possibly because they are not really aware of the negative results that can follow laxidasical discharge of these leader responsibilities. [SPEAKER_00]: diligent efforts to take care of one's men seem to be an integral part of the effort needed to produce a cohesive unit that will operate as a team under stressful conditions. [SPEAKER_00]: That's no shock.

[SPEAKER_00]: Take care of your people and I'll take care of you. [SPEAKER_00]: Another aspect of taking care of one's men is that of protecting them from excessive use on details, details as like a working party. [SPEAKER_00]: particularly when the men could think their use is the result of an unwillingness on their part of the leader to stick their neck out for them. [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll close out this book with this section here. [SPEAKER_00]: It says hardship support.

[SPEAKER_00]: However, there are many circumstances which the men must do dirty, hard, unrewarding work. [SPEAKER_00]: This is particularly the case in close combat. [SPEAKER_00]: When so confronted, the men will be faced with difficult decisions, should they continue trying or should they not? [SPEAKER_00]: Should they assault or just keep going along for the ride? [SPEAKER_00]: Should they expose themselves in order to fire at the assaulting enemy or seek temporary security of their foxholes?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or, less dramatically, should they do a really good command maintenance management inspection or just one that they think will pass? [SPEAKER_00]: Some soldiers will react adaptively under such conditions regardless of what the leader does, others will not. [SPEAKER_00]: Incidents have been recorded in which men lay prone in the face of hand grenades rolling straight toward them immobilized by fear, indecision, and give up idus until they are blown, screaming into oblivion.

[SPEAKER_00]: Between these two is a large third category of men to whom the leader is very important. [SPEAKER_00]: In difficult circumstances, they will summon the will to continue trying if they receive emotional support from their leader. [SPEAKER_00]: this is hardship support. [SPEAKER_00]: A many respects it is highly similar to the emotional support a parent can give a child in a time of trial.

[SPEAKER_00]: This support is also important in non-crisis situations which are merely unpleasant. [SPEAKER_00]: Further, the leader's presence alone may suffice to prove the needed support, even as a parent's presence in a dark room provides the emotional support needed by a child who is afraid of the dark to react adaptively. [SPEAKER_00]: This is even true when the work is such that the leader either cannot or should not personally engage in its actual performance.

[SPEAKER_00]: The presence of the leader, both commissioned and non-commissioned, is a powerful source of support. [SPEAKER_00]: And then it says, even though he does not actually do any of the work himself, which I put in parentheses because I don't agree with that. [SPEAKER_00]: Like do the work, like you're out there, pick up the brass, help clean the weapons, help maintain the vehicles, like if you're out there, get out there, get your hands dirty with the troops.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying you have to do it all, if there's other things going on and you've got to go deal with headquarters, like that stuff happens too. [SPEAKER_00]: get in there and do it with the boys. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we're doing. [SPEAKER_00]: That will avoid many of these basic problems and small unit leadership. [SPEAKER_00]: Take care of your people. [SPEAKER_00]: Take care of your people, people take care of you. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we're doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of little nuances to this whole thing. [SPEAKER_00]: And it just doesn't stop. [SPEAKER_00]: That's why this is a skill set that is a perishable skill set. [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're not paying attention, you'll fall into that trap.

[SPEAKER_00]: You ever notice you train with a certain person all the time, or maybe two or three people all the time, and you get used to some little thing that you can kind of get away with with them, and then you try on somebody else, and they crush you, you've got to keep that game fresh, and you can't get complacent. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's the same thing with leadership. [SPEAKER_00]: You can't get complacent, you've got to be thinking about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you got to be ready for these hardships, and you know what that means to get ready for our chips, you got to do hard things, that's why we run, that's why we sprint, that's why we live, that's why we train due to, and because of those things echo Charles, we get a need fuel, check out jockofield.com, we got protein, we got the proline protein, we got energy drinks, we got hydration, we got

[SPEAKER_00]: We got everything, get the joint supplementation, we got greens, pre-workouts, we got everything that you need. [SPEAKER_00]: Everything that you need to fuel your body and it's all the best possible ingredients. [SPEAKER_00]: So if you need fuel for your hardships, which you do, check out jugglefuel.com, also check out whatever store that you go to, there's a ton of them and we're in all of them, or we're getting there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if they don't have it in your store, [SPEAKER_00]: You can ask for it. [SPEAKER_00]: Demand it. [SPEAKER_00]: Jockelfield.com, check it out. [SPEAKER_00]: Also, American Made Clothing, OriginUSA.com. [SPEAKER_00]: This is 100% American Made Clothing from materials that are sourced 100% in America. [SPEAKER_00]: So, if you need Jiu-Jitsu-Gi, work out clothes, jeans, boots, hoodies, whatever you need. [SPEAKER_00]: Go to OriginUSA.com and get 100% communist free.

[SPEAKER_00]: Clothing. [SPEAKER_01]: You too. [SPEAKER_01]: Also you want to represent Disneyland equals freedom on your day-to-day Your workouts whatever, you know, we got some shirts for you. [SPEAKER_01]: This political stream good We got represented in the Super Bowl by the way, and you know that. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, I was legit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, man, but yeah Like I said, if you want to represent we got you I'll go to jockelstore.com [SPEAKER_01]: Also on Jocquistore some new stuff on there. [SPEAKER_01]: This is like just general merch for this representation But you do get this as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: The shirt locker subscription scenario new design Need version different versions of this clinicals freedom So good on subscription scenario every month you get into one Yeah, it's all on Jocquistore if you want to be updated [SPEAKER_01]: Just be your email in the bottom thing, we'll send you an email updating on new stuff, and, you know, we send an email every day. [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm not even every week.

[SPEAKER_01]: Probably want some, as far as I know it's like about once a month, you know, there's something cool and worthy of an email to open up. [SPEAKER_01]: That's about it, you know, if there's more stuff coming, then yeah, you get more emails, but no, that's a right about once a month. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's worth it, you seem to say. [SPEAKER_00]: Cause you like to play a little bit lazy, like you're saying. [SPEAKER_01]: Performatively.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure. [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. [SPEAKER_00]: Take out all these books, put your legs on by Rob Jones, need to lead by Dave Burke, things of my brother used to say, a Ryan men and then a bunch of books that I wrote, including where your kid books, we got, we got you covered also echelonfront.com, we have a leadership consultancy, we teach these principles and bring them into your organization. [SPEAKER_00]: Check out echelonfront.com. [SPEAKER_00]: And we teach these principles to use.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can be a better leader and if you want to help service members active and retired You want to help their family. [SPEAKER_00]: You want to help gold star families check out Mark Lee's mom.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mama Lee's got an amazing charity organization If you want to donate or you want to get involved go to america's mighty warriors dot org [SPEAKER_00]: Also check out heroes and horses.org and then finally Jimmy May's organization beyond the brotherhood.org and for us, if you want to connect with us, you can go to jockel.com and then on social media. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm at jockel. [SPEAKER_00]: We're like echoes out echo trials.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just be careful because there's a giant demonic algorithm that will try and get you. [SPEAKER_00]: anyone let go. [SPEAKER_00]: Also, thanks to our service men and women right now around the world, especially the small unit leaders leading from the front where the battles are won. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for what you do every day to protect us in our way of life.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also, thanks to our police law enforcement firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, board patrol, all secret service and all the other first responders out there. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for what you do every day to protect us on the home front. [SPEAKER_00]: And everyone else out there.

[SPEAKER_00]: No matter what your station in life, no matter what rank you have on your sleeve or on your collar or in the wire diagram of your corporation, remember that rank and authority only goes so far and that real rank and real authority is earned every day and everything that you do. [SPEAKER_00]: So make sure [SPEAKER_00]: they you earn it by getting up every day and getting after it. [SPEAKER_00]: That's all I've got for tonight and until next time, this is Echo and Jocco out.