Jesus Christ Show | Hour 3 - Are we saints or sinners [06/23]

You're listening to KFI A six forty on demand. I was talking to Ned off the air and wanted to let you know that we chatted a little bit about the church. He had some concerns of two different churches, one that kicked someone out, saying that they were making people feel uncomfortable, and the other one that he said was keeping a family from seeing other parts of their

family, which is really odd. There are movements called the Shepherding movement where Christianity starts to borderline on cultism and wanting to control your life, where who you marry, where you move, things like that. I don't see that from the church that he mentioned in Aspen. Taking a look at that, I don't see anything that overtly at this point is problematic. But we chatted a little bit about not wrapping your faith up into the people of the church.

Churches will make major mistakes and people abuse power, even people, even Christians, and power abuse power. And we didn't have time to go through every single detail there, but always have a watchful eye for how the church treats people. It's an important part of being in a community. And if something gives you a red flag, it's it's worthy of going to ask. But if you're looking for perfection in a church, you're going to be frustrated

as well, because it's it's You're not going to find it there. There's going to be issues there, just like any other place. Quite honestly, sadly but true. Jay, welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Yeah, thank you for kicking my goal. My question. My question is this, My sister wants to be uh ashes when she passes away and Jesus yashuah I had to go back to his body to be resurrected. Are we supposed to be ashes or should we? Should we have our body intact? So I've

heard that the temple of God, you can't mess with the temple. The body is the temple of God. She wants to be as I say no, no, because we need a theological answer. Yahu. I'm asking you, should we be intact or should we be ashes? It's cheaper and yeah, it's cheaper and more convenient and more eco friendly and all kinds of things. So, Jay, the fact that you are using Yeshua are you do you come from a Jewish belief system? No? I say you show it

because I come from Catholic. But now and then, I'm not a feeling. I've never really studied the whole stuff, but I am searching. But I am also I want my sister to be attacked. Okay, so let's that that's your one that Let's look at scripture. There is nothing in scripture. As a matter of fact, Scripture says ashes to ashes, dust to dust, from the ground. You came from the ground, you shall return there. There is nothing, there's no benefit. God is not stupid.

God is not sitting there going, oh my gosh, she's ash. How am I going to put this back together? God created her from ash, and from ash he can create her again. There is no there's no issue there. There's no issue in cremation to a Christian. Our Jewish brothers and sisters may feel differently, but to a Christian there is no problem with cremation. Also, there is uh and no problem in scripture. And also there is no problem with donating your body to science. God is not going to

be going, oh what am I to do? That has nothing to do. The reason why I was fully intact during that process is because it was less than three days and there it was part of a burial which was the which was the tradition then, but now as there are over seven billion people on the planet and real estate is at a high price because it's more and more, there's less space that it if for those that choose to be cremated, it becomes a very practical way to do it, and it doesn't affect

God or spirituality or resurrection or any of those things at all. It's a personal choice. So if your sister wants to do it, there's nothing in scripture that says she can't. I know, it may make you feel a little odd. I know a family member, there's a lot of family members feel that way because they feel like it's the body's being destroyed. But scripture never puts weight on the body. The body is just a vessel. It's like your car. It just moves your body from place to place. So

your body just moves your spirit from place to place. But once the body's gone, it doesn't matter. You're going to be in a resurrected body anyways, it's going to be different. So we have your permission absolutely, if that's your choice, there's nothing wrong with it whatsoever. There's nothing in scripture that says that you can't be cremated, or that it's going to somehow cause some a problem during the resurrection or anything like that. Nothing whatsoever, personal

choice, that's all. Okay, all right, thank you, you're quite welcome. I know that those things weigh heavy on people because they think that somehow you're destroying the temple. You're not, because the body is the temple that holds the spirit. The spirit is that which is important. Okay. The temple has always been the thing that held the Holy of Holies. It wasn't the temple, wasn't the important part as much as it was what was

inside the temple. And in this particular case, when it talks about in Corinthians about your body being the temple, it's really it's really talking about don't take your body for granted during this life and destroy it, you know, treat to be a good steward of the life you've been given. But at the point of death, it doesn't mean treat the body as some sort of sacred object per se. It's if you want to be buried, be buried.

If you want to be cremated, be cremated. If you want to be turned into a tree fertilizer for a tree and it's legal, then so be it. There's nothing that's not going to get in any way messed up with the final judgment or anything like that. People get lost in that and it becomes becomes a fear that somehow you're not you're going to miss out because you it became cremated or had your body cremated. It doesn't, it doesn't play into it as a whole. Jeff, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.

Yes, sir, good morning. How are you doing? I am well. How can I help you? Jeff? Well, first of all, I want to thank you for taking my call, and I appreciate listening to you on Sunday mornings. That's nice, appreciate it. The pleasure's mine. How can I help you? Thank you? Well, I'll start with I have two things that I asked you about, but I'll start with the

most important one here. I've been thinking about perhaps I've been either hypercritical on myself and others a lot lately, especially since I then set in scripture and listen to your show and so into attend church more than you know when I was you know, a young man. Whatever. But you know, I'll make this a little more brief relationship wise, This is where it becomes important. I have a very significant other. I've known her for about five years.

In the beginning, I well, of course liked her a lot, but didn't want to be with her. She was a few years older than me, already has a child with a past marriage the last year and a half or so. Then wanted, you know, decided like you are, you know, kind of being a foolish to not see good person that had in front of me. And then it's become nothing but strife and and you know, you know, basically, uh, you know, a lot of

frustration after that. Once once I decided to go the path she wanted, you know, as far as being being with her, then it became, you know, nothing but a lot of negative output. Whereas before she wouldn't leave me alone when I didn't want to be with her in a committed relationship. So yeah, and then now I look at things like a might being hypercritical on how I look at her behavior. I hypercritical o myself as far

as what I do as well. To not elaborate of that one yet, but it goes on both ends, So I don't know, I'm very perplexed by this one. I will tell you this, Jeff as a as a simple answer. Whenever a Christian asked me, are they being over judging and hypocritical of others in themselves? The answer ninety nine point nine percent of the time is yes, Christians do that. Now, what if you feel, well, I'm not trying to be like so judgmental where I'm saying, you

know, what you're doing is completely wrong. It's against the you know, word of God or whatnot. I used to do with that out of a born again Christian aunt who no matter what you know, nothing, nothing was correct. But yeah, and that becomes annoying for yourself and for others. Yeah, yeah, exactly. We used to call her you know, well it doesn't matter but yeah, no, no, Now her and I are

friends. Actually I'll be going to with her later. In fact, we had a falling out a few years back, and now I decided, when I was changing some things around that I would make contact and that we're actually really really close. So this is really about a relationship with a woman, right, Well that's yes, that's where the first part of it starts.

But I also have applied this into other other areas of my life. A good example would be yesterday I had a homeless individual, you know, say something to me, to ask me a question I didn't know nobody asked me, and I told him no, more like he was asked me for something, don't know what told him no, an he kind of kind of fronted me in an aggressive way, and so it looks like you're too scared to

talk, and then I definitely should have wasn't too scared to talk? And well maybe that's a little too aggressive, right, So that's that's just one analogy. But back to the relationship factor though, Like I said, I can apply this to many areas of life. The relationship factor, though, would be all right. So now that I'm trying to have this relationship with this individual and understand certain things, I feel there's like this big pull away.

So when I see certain things that happen where I don't feel I've been spoken to honestly or schedules don't keep up. Am I being extremely judgmental? Well not judgmental? Sorry? Am I not? Am I failing to realize the fact that we She's got a daughter and you know there's other factors in their life. Yeah? I think there. I actually think there's a a couple of things going on here, Jeff so hack and tight, and I'll give you my response in just a moment, I was talking with Jeff and

I wanted to clear some things up. We have just a moment here. He was talking about being judging and hypocritical of others in himself, and that's pretty common with Christians that get wrapped up, or religionists in any way, or people of faith in any faith can Often you're finding structure and it's almost like you're finding structure for the first time. And there's a difference in life between building. Let me put it this way, there's a difference between fine

art and architecture. Both are absolutely art, but one has to have structure and rules to it because you're going to be building mass. You're going to be building something that has to house people or things or have electrical wiring, have to be structurally sound, and therefore it has to it has to be built by rules. Doesn't mean there is an art involved in it, but it has to be built by rules. And then on the other side,

there is free flowing art. There is Jackson Pollock and an explosion of pain on a canvas and you're trying to put these two together and figure out how

they work in life and how they can be from the same thing. When something's so rigid and something is so not so when it comes to Christianity, when it comes to faith, when it comes to applying your faith in life, there are going to be times where the rigidity of those laws and the things taught in scriptures, the thou shall and those thou shall not are going to be important because of the structure you're building has more to do with housing

life and spirituality and things that need structure. And then in those instances it's okay to be judgy and specific and hypercritical of yourself and others. And then there are other things in life that are more fluid and have to breathe. They need space and poetry and not just symmetry. And in those things there has to be charity and acceptance and a broader look. And most of the

things in life, in relationships, really deal in that area. And it doesn't mean that there aren't eyes you need to dot and tease, you need to cross when you're finding a mate or a partner in life, most certainly because it's going to be an important part but if you're looking for perfection or for the fine detail that comes with architecture, you're not gonna find it because

people aren't built that way. So have a little bit of breath and a little bit of open openness towards those things, and you'll find that life will become easier. And then when it comes to the structure of morality and making choices in life and doing the right thing, then that structure should be there, and you should dot every eye and cross every TV Renee, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Yes, how can I help you, funny to

get your input on transgendered people and their relationship with God and stuff. I've fifty six years old. I've been transitioning for twelve years, and I came back to a town that I lived in for many years and was invited to a church by some people there, and then abruptly, once I found out I was transgendered, with asked not to come or I have to be under strict codes, and started to be able to come to anything, and then

another church they accept that fine. And as a Christian person myself, I've wrestled with the question and how I don't trying to figure out what God's views on that are. I you know, I don't really know. I guess I just know I'm transgendered, and I don't know what God's views are. I said that, hear what you had to say. Well, first of all, I think it's important that the church treated you the way that it did. I find that to be unloving and Unchristian on so many levels.

I think the church. The interesting thing is, the church would love to say you're the one that's confused, but I think the churches, I think the church is in a place of that has a major deficit and understanding what is taking place, what these different gender identities are, and how they're applied, and what's the difference between somebody who may be confused and somebody who genuinely is saying I'm struggling with a mismatch of my body and my brain. And

they don't know where to put that. There's no clear definition, so they start applying scripture that should not be applied to it at all and kind of throwing it into one bucket and saying, Okay, I think this is this is wow, We're going to make the decision. And unfortunately, people like yourself are struggling with their faith and saying, hey, I believe, and I want to be a part of a church community, and I want to give and I want to dedicate myself, and you're not allowing me to do

that. Some churches are. I don't want to put that on every church, but I do have a church now that I found that I go to and an Episcopal church and they're very accepting. So but you say that you wrestle with it yourself, that as a believer you've wrestled with it. What part do you wrestle with, Well, just the whole part. And it's

like, God, you know you made me this way. You know, I guess I had that part of me, and then I guess, and then I guess some of the brow beatings from early on in my life. Sure, And I say, you know, I always wrestled with it with God. I guess before I came out. I mean I was married and had a family and everything, and you know, it goes lives all that,

But that's the way it was dealt with back then, right. You just kind of well tried to get on the path that seemed normal and seemed like the average Jane or John and you just got married and tried to do what you thought everyone else wanted, and now you have people like yourself that's saying no, I'm not going to do that, because living a lie for God is should not be condoned either, correct. So this is a tough

one. I will say that it is the belief of this program that being transgender is not incompatible with Christianity or with your faith, and that will frustrate a lot of people listening right now. But in the bigger picture, I want you to see it this way. Now, there are many shades, and there are many different beliefs and cist gender and all these different new names that are being thrown out at people, and there's a lot to them.

This is not a blanket for everything. But what this is is people is an opportunity for people to think differently and think that if there is nothing else where you would condemn a child or an individual based on medically being born one way, you wouldn't say somebody with a cleft palate shouldn't correct the cleft palate, or shouldn't or somehow isn't going to get into heaven because of the cleft

palate. That's not the way it works. Now you can go into debating, and science is doing a wonderful job trying to dig in and to understand all of this more and more as people are coming out and saying no, I've been living a lie and that's not okay. But the church doesn't know what to do with it right now, and I'm sorry for that. I know that they need time to process all of this, and it doesn't It's not about a liberal mentality or watering down the church. It's not about that

at all. This show is not about watering down the truth of the Gospel or the truth of scripture. But it is about making people, especially the church, look at themselves, at some of the things they've done in the past and some of the things they continue to do, and ask themselves why Because you have churches that have female pastors, you have churches that think,

oh, well, you can have a single pastor. Yet they'll use the same types of verses against transgender folks or gay folks and say well, you can't be a part because X, Y, and Z. Yet they will rewrite whatever they want because they're comfortable with it. The fact is, and the church should be brave enough to say this that their biggest concern is the ick factor. They think it's icky. They don't know how to just see two adults that are the same sex relationship or two adults that say I'm not

the right gender in my brain and in my body. And the world has always been the same way. Renee, you've got you come out of your mama. You're put there in front of a doctor and a team of nurses, and they go, they've got They've got an audi. It's a boy. They've got an any it's a girl. And that binary concept is all this world has known for a long time. And people confuse the story of Adam and Eve being the only standard because it was the necessary standard for for

procreation. But that doesn't mean the two people that can't pro create, meaning even if they are male female, are are not doing the will of God. It's you know, there's a lot of a lot of areas in which Christianity just runs from. And I am proud of you for one being honest with yourself and for taking those steps to correct what you felt. Not God. God didn't make a mistake, which is another thing the Church doesn't know

what to do with. But life has paths that it goes down to chemically and structurally and biologically, and that aren't put necessarily on God, like the cleft palate or these types of things, and correcting them is a noble thing and not an ugly thing. But God bless you for saying, I will not live a lie and I will not refuse and reject my God. So you gotta I'm sorry you have to wait for the church to catch up with you. But it's struggling, and it's trying. It's trying to understand,

and it's trying to figure out where it lands on all of this. And I can promise you this, They will find the right path. They just are scrambling to understand. And the best way to do that is to be honest. People like you. To be honest and to be willing to explain and to teach and those that ask or have questions and not take offense to it and allow people to learn during this process of change. Because you think you said yourself it took twelve years of transition, right, Yeah, And

I I started transitioning twelve years ago, right started normale treatments. Yeah, I'll tell you what I disclaimed from you More than anything one was my attitude at the at the churches. I guess as a Christian person myself, that helped me. I guess for any bitterness that I might have towards them, you know, I guess the best teacher is to give you. God wants just to love, to learn to love, and if I could learn to

love them back, I wish they would have loved me. They'll get there, Yeah, I guess for me, that's my job, though, is to reach back in love and not hate and be mad at them. Well, you think that the church, and everyone thinks this, the church has the corner on all faith and the love of God, and that's not true. It's just a building with people. It's people coming together and rejoicing in God. However, you as a believer, are just as accountable for teaching

them and teaching others about your faith. So you have to love them the same way you expect them to love you, even if they don't give you that you do exactly because you are yourself that church, as every saint is. And I know this is a touchy subject and people want to run from it, and people in the church especially don't want to do that homework and don't want to really dig deep to figure out how this all plays a part.

They even psychological movements and definitions are scrambling to come up with better understanding. Science is scrambling come up with better understanding, and ultimately, people like yourself are saying, hey, regardless of science, regardless of any of these things, I know what I know, and I know what I feel, and I know who I am, and I'm just asking to be able to be respected as that individual. And I think that that is a right,

especially here in the United States, that you have RENEE. And I'm sorry that you have to be so patient, but you took twelve years. You started your transitioning twelve years ago. Think about something that's been around for thousands of years that is dealing with this in a different way for the first time, and it's going to take some time for them to transition as well. And I hope that, I hope that you give the church that time to

make their own transition and understanding in this very important matter and focus. And I get so disappointed in how the church has treated this particular community, whether it be the gay community, the transgender community, and how their ignorance has made them even mean mean towards this community, rather than loving and trying to understand, even if they don't have all the answers in front of them right

now, to just find a place of lovingness and stop hiding behind. Oh well, I love the sinner, but hate the sin business when they really just use it as an excuse not to know, not to learn, and not to understand. Dell, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Fellow, Hi, how can I help you? Del Oh? Wow, it's you alrighty. I was a member of a Pentecostal holsation. I am Lutheran. I have learned that Martin Luther taught that we are simultaneously saint and sinner.

Uh huh. Obviously in my Pentecostal holiness world, I was taught we were sinners, but now we're saints. Which which one is right? Or are they both right? Or you know what? You're simultaneously simultaneously Satan sinner you are. You are a saint by the grace of God and the death and the Cross. You are a sinner by the nature of man. Okay,

So does that mean that it's okay? Sin? And you know it's just all right, It will work out any ow no. And that's you know, that's actually talked about in Timothy. There's a concept of oh, well, you know what, I'm a sinner and it's already paid for, that I might as well do it. But think about it this way, Dell. If you accidentally killed a man and you went to court and they found

that it wasn't an accident, but it was. They just the evidence wasn't there, and they said, you know what, in two weeks, we're going to put you in jail for life. So you had two weeks to roam free. Are you going to go around murdering a bunch of people just because well they already think you're a murderer and you've got the freedom to do it. You're it's already been paid for. It's going to be exactly. There's not going to change the amount of time or any of that. Well,

let's say you are. That's a good point though, if you were saved, that that the point is about the character of the individual. The character of the individual a true person who has saved, and that is seeking to do the will of God each day, to love God and and and stay by his commandments, and to focus on God's will is not looking for an excuse to sin, and you don't need one. You sin because you're

a sinner. That's just it's going to happen. It says in Scripture all men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, every single one of them. So that's the state in which you're in. Doesn't mean that you have to continue to perpetuate it, because that stops being sin and becomes rebellion, a deeper form of sin, and rebellion's talked about a lot in

Scripture as being different or rooted differently. So again another analogy. If one of your children, you buy them a car and they crash the car, and you go, well, I love them, and you know what they learned from their mistake. I'm going to pay for another car. And you get them another car and they crash that car. If they continue to do this, that's not they don't love you. They don't love you, they don't care about you. They're taking your money, they're getting they're using the

car, and they're doing what they want. And that attitude, the fruits of those attitudes de'll show others as well. And God knows your heart. So if you're only looking for an excuse or reason to sin, then your heart is not in the In this state of the redemption of the Cross. To begin with, you're kind of just doing your own thing. But if you're constantly seeking to better yourself, you're you're what my producer Neil calls a whip, a work in progress. That's normal. That's the way God works.

You're in that You're you're trying to get better each day, focusing on the things of God, purifying yourself through scripture and the blood on the cross, and focusing on God's will and not yours. And that's a process and it takes time. But if you're going in the other direction, oh Heaven help you, and remember, more importantly than all the ugliness in the world, these simple words, I Am with you always. KFI A M six forty on demand