This is a podcast from Woor Jesse Kelly, Joe, let's have some fun on a Wednesday. I want to congratulate you for forging ahead through the week because you have crested the peak. It's humpday. We're over halfway done. It's smooth sailing now. Oh the way to the weekend. And here's what we have on tap tonight on the World Famous Jesse kelly Show. I am hoping to get to a bit of an email round up in a little
while because they're kind of stacking up on me. But before we get to that, we have to get to a couple of things, good things. Something good happened at the FBI, We'll discuss it. Something bad happened with the judge. We'll discuss that. Democrats in disarray, they're trying to scold their young communist space. We'll talk about it. Should we
adjust our relationship if you will, with some countries? Talk about that and insider training, training, insider trading, ah, that and so much more coming up on the World Famous Jesse Kelly's Show. I want to begin here though, with a little informative segment, if you will. This is for you and this is for me is This is for us in our daily life, because you know, what's part of life and has always been part of life. This is not unique to America. Debate, debating things with people.
Maybe it's as simple as hey, what do we want for dinner? Debate what movie do we want to watch? When I was a kid, that was Blockbuster. You walk into Blockbuster and you have a big family fight for thirty minutes trying to decide which movie to brant. But maybe it's political, Maybe it's at work, Hey what should we do with the sales? Should we do? But debate is not one of those things you're going to be able to avoid in life. You're going to want to know some basics on how to do it. But for
our purposes, we're going to discuss debating communists tonight. What are they after? What are they trying to do? And how do you counter it? First before we get to Trump laying out a masterclass in something. And this is me. How many times do I come on the radio I love Trump, Chump's the bet jump Jip Chump, Chump Chrip. I realize that's every other radio show on the air. Do I do that?
No?
I don't. Trump did something. It was so perfect, it was masterful. Before we get to what he did, what are they trying to do? That's an important part of any debate. When you're having a family argument about dinner, you better understand the motivations of it. Well, okay, why is my son? Why is he said no to three of his four favorite things? Because he has one thing in mind. He's trying to shoot everything down and get everybody pigeonholed into one idea. Why what's his motivation? What's
the communist trying to do? Remember this all communism, all of it is based on deception. Lies are not some unfortunate thing they have to do from time to time. It is a basic part of it. They have to lie about their intentions because destroying something is a hard sell. So one, you have to get that. If you don't get that, don't even move on a step. Two, you're done. It's all based on lies, and it's based on appealing
to you and your emotions and your morality. They don't share yours, but they know what yours is, and that's why they tell you, well, Jesus want to deport people. That's why they do that to you. Works very effectively. It's great, it's very effective on people. Three. They don't have any depth of knowledge and they don't want it. You see, remember, the communist is a herd animal above all, a herd animal. And for someone like you, this is going to sound bonkers. For me, it sounds bonkers. But
half this planet doesn't want freedom. They don't want to think. They don't want to be free because that comes with risks, and it comes with burdens. The family dinner debate if instead of its abate a debate someone just says, hey, you pick where we're going for dinner. A lot of people feel pressure. Oh what if I pick the wrong thing? But if I same thing with how people go through life. You, because you value freedom, you think that applies to everybody.
Oh my gosh, you are so mistaken. Even if people are led in the wrong direction, half the people out there want to be led. Just tell me what to think, tell me what to say, tell me where to live, tell me what to drive, Just tell me what to do. So I don't have to think about it. I don't have to be responsible for it. I'll just be part of the herd. And so as herd animals, they have to get their leadership from somewhere. Well, they get it
from the hive mind. The hive mind being what's being put out there by the media, by Democrat politicians, by communist professors, by Hollywood. All these things form a one gigantic hive mind. Your liberal aunt Pegy will move breathlessly from Russian collusion to another topic, whatever the newest scandal of the day is. She knows all the talking points and nothing else beyond that. Why she gets an upload from the hive mind on what the latest talking points
are and she carries those into the world. But that's the important part. You see, liberal aunt Peggy doesn't actually know what she claims to know with any depth, and she knows that she gets that. She's just a sheep who's been fed a couple talking points. But how do you deal with that? Well, here's how you deal with it.
When you are debating and you don't have any depth of knowledge, or even you're wrong, or maybe you're lying, that'll come in up play with this interview, what you will try to do is get a rise out of the other person that helps you, or move on and change the subject. If they shoot down a point you made, if they expose a lie, you told Okay, well, anyway, let's move on, Let's talk about something else. This is the I know this happens to you in your life,
when you debate Democrats, when you debate politics. It's happened to every single one of us who's ever done this. Whether you're at the house or a family reunion, they'll call you a nazi. Well, okay, whatever. Anyway, Trump's evil. They'll try to change yoursef no, no, no, no, no, no, stop. Now. This is the important part. You what do you do? You stay calm, don't let them get a rise out of you when they offend you with something they're trying to offend you. But also you stay firm and you
don't allow them to move on. If they've told a lie, you make them sit on top of that lie until they basically have to admit it. You don't let them move on. I'm gonna play you with snippet. It's a long snippet. I may let the whole thing play, Probably not, but at some point I'm gonna let the whole thing go. This is Trump. He sat down with this communist named Terry Moran from ABC News, and this specific argument is about the MS thirteen guy, They deported that part's not
actually as important. The important part is watch how President Trump handles the lies. Watch how he handled watch the calm. But no, no, no, no, you just said, you just said it. Listen to this master.
Class murderous criminals in this country. We have to get him out, and we're doing it violin. You'll pick out one man. But even the man that you picked out, key said he wasn't a member of a gang. And then they looked and on his knuckles he had MS. There's a wait a minute, Wait a minute, he had MS thirteen.
On. We had some tattoos that are interpreted that way, but let's move on.
Wait a minute, it stops off that what he already tried to do. Well, no, I mean, he had tattoos that were interpreted that way, but let's move on. Let's move on. He tried to nail Trump down on the MS thirteen guy. Trump said no, no, no, no, this these are the facts. And what did he do? How did he respond? Then? Very let's move on. Now listen to how Trump handles it. Terry Moran wants to move on. He just he got his upload from the hive mind. He dropped the talking point out there. He doesn't know
anything else. He wants to move on. Right, let's move on. Let's move on. Listen to with Donald Trump.
Terry Kerry, Terry.
He did not have the letter MS one.
It says MS one.
Three and that was photoshopped. So let me do his.
Photoshop, Terry, ahead of that. Hey, they're giving you the big break of a lifetime. You know you're doing the interview. I picked you because frankly, I never heard of you.
But that's okay.
I picked you, Terry. Hey, but you're not being very nice. He had MS thirteen text, will agree to disagree.
I want to carry on to something el Terry, Terry just did it again. Now he's getting desperate. Your liberal and Peggy will respond the same way. Well anyway, will agree to disagree. Let's move on. Don't let her do that. Your polite nature is going to want to let her do that. You're gonna sense her discomfort and you're gonna want to let her off the hook. Don't do it. Stay right on top of him. Listen to what he does.
Do you want me to show you the picture? I saw the picture. Well, here we go. Here we got photoshop. But don't look at his hand. He had a hemistad.
He did have tattoos that can be interpreted that way. I'm not an expert on them. I want to turn to Ukraine. Your liberal Peggy will do that too, what Terry Moran just did. When she feels it crumbling, when you won't let her off the subject, when you won't let her off the lie, she will try the excuse. They are taught this. Democrats are taught this. This is taught to them. It's a tactic they all use. Well, okay,
well anyway, I'm not an expert on it. When they start to explain why confiscating guns will reduce crime, and you expose that lie anyway. Look, I'm not a gun guy anyway. I want no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no, don't let them.
Just like Trump, he had MS as clear as you can be, not interpreted. This is why people no longer believe well the news because in El Salvador.
They aren't there.
But let's just go they aren't there there now right, No, but they're in Victor Terry Ukraine, Sir.
He's got MS thirteen on his knuckles. All right, okay, we'll take a look it's just such a disservice.
We'll take a look. You just say it.
Yes he does, and you know, going.
To something else. That's so good. That's how it's done. That's what you and I have talked about forever. That's how it's done. And he did it to him in another way. We'll do one more example then we'll move off this and do some other stuff on the show. Well done, mister president. Listen to that yourself. That's how it's done. You stay calm, you stay on them, don't
let them change the subject. All right now, I'm going to stay on you about Legacy Box until you get your stuff digitized, your pictures, that baby album you have, that wedding album. I'm glad you have it. You are one flood, one fire, one something away from those pictures being gone forever. The whole movies. Who even makes whole movies anymore? I'm talking about the VHS tapes and things like that. You're not making new ones, but you treasure the ones you have, right, one flood, one fire, those
are gone forever, all those memories. Why don't you preserve them forever? One box to Legacy Box, you load that stuff in, send it to Legacy Box. They digitize it for you and they'll send you the originals back then instead of risking losing it forever, no matter what, you have it forever. I did this with pictures and videos that mean everything to me, My wife and I did it. And Legacy Box, man, do they do us right? I love these guys. Get your stuff digitized and preserved. They're
having a huge all American sale right now. Legacybox dot com slash Jesse. Legacy Box dot com slash Jesse. We'll be back fighting for your freedom every day. It is the Jesse Kelly Show. And we will get to the judge and the craziness about the stopping the border patrol from arresting people. We'll get to that in a few here. I want to finish up on this thing where Trump sat down with Terry Moran of ABC News, and look, there was a lot of funny and it was a lot of it was great. But I want to focus
on you, really me. I want to focus on teaching us how to have these debates, how to win these debates with the crazy communists in your life, with the Democrat in your life. I already laid out the whole last MS thirteen stuff, How how Trump stayed calm? How the communist in your life, like Terry Moran, we'll try to move on when his lives are exposed, when when he's being when his points are being knocked down by you, he will try to move on. He'll try to change
the subject till you stay calm. But you don't let him. Calm but firm, Calm but firm, Calm but firm. Always remember that Trump did it well. Trump did it so well. In another little question, a little back and forth here here it was a legal note.
Fraud is a crime. There have been no referrals to the Justice Department that anyway.
You don't know that?
To you, how do you know that?
I've just just stopped for a second. Trump. I want to give you a little bit of background on it case you didn't watch it. They're talking about what Elon Musk in DOGE is doing. And remember, for communists, for America's communists, this is not a small thing. It's not just that communism in America is funded and organized. It's funded by you. The American taxpayer is funding American communism.
Years and years and years of criminal corruption in the government has led to the creation of all these nonprofits and NGOs and all these types, and they've figured out a way to get large amounts of your money from the federal government. So you are you paid for the invasion of illegals, you paid for all these abortions. You you paid for all these things. And what's more, they have to have it. It's their biggest funding source by a mile. Maybe you think the biggest funding source of
American communism is George Soros or someone like that. Oh my gosh, George Soros, there's nothing compared to how much you have funded and I have funded. So the Elon Musk do dose stuff, exposing things like Stacy Abrams Climate Group getting two billion dollars. Well, it's everything to America's communists. Without it, without you paying for their communism, they become nothing. Their whole movement disintegrates. The American media. Obviously, they are
part of America's communist movement. They know that. That's why they get angry about any attempts to claw that money back. They know where that money's going, they know why it's going there. That's what they're talking about here. When Terry Moran is trying to push back, Well, there haven't been any criminal referrals anyway. That's the background a legal note.
Fraud is a crime. There have been no referrals to the justice departmanent anyway.
You don't know that to you?
How do you know that?
You know that. I'll let them keep going in a minute, But did you see what just happened? Your liberal at Peggy will do this to you. She'll say something, she'll make a statement, and she will sound so confident in her statement. The statement will be an outright lie, or something she made up, or something just a programming note she got from the hive mind, but she will say it boldly. And in that moment she will be so bold with her statement, you might be tempted to shrivel
up a little bit. Ooh is that true? You'll start to question yourself, Oh, my gosh, is true? She's lying. She's always lying, because they're lying at all times. Ask her where she got that information. She won't tell you, either she won't be able to, or she'll know she shouldn't tell you. But ask her calmly said, oh really, where did you find that out? And then don't let her get away with some one or two word answer. I saw it on the news. No, no, no, really
which channel? Who was the host? I actually at curious, Hey, I want to find that information myself. Where did you find that? Don't let her get away with this either, well, I mean I don't remember where. No, no, no, no, that's the central part of your argument. You made a declarative statement. Now defend it. Anyway, Here was Trump Terry Morina a legal note.
Fraud is a crime. There have been no referrals to the Justice Department that anyway.
You don't know that.
How do you know that.
Has the referrals to when you.
Know that that there were no referrals, I think.
They generally all right, there's been no investigation from the High Department that.
I'm asking you, sir. You're not asking me.
You made a statement, you know, Now I'm asking him there was a statement that you made the head I'm.
Asking him why.
Yes, So they have been referrals for fraud from the worst step to.
Take a look at some of these things that took plus millions of dollars were given to people for no reason whatsoever.
Of course they have.
That's well done. It's not about Trump beating up Terry Moran, which was honestly just hilarious more than anything else. But he was really, really, really good. And I'll tell you something else, light years better than he was. It's not that I ever thought he was a bum or terrible at it, but they used to get Trump on his heels. He didn't understand what he was dealing with defending himself. I already I reject racism. I already said you could use to get flustered. Now calm cool on top of them.
It was wonderful, wonderful to watch. Let's move on. We'll talk about this judge and illegal immigration. Before we talk about that, Let's do something fun and beneficial and free. Most importantly, I know that's music to Chris's ears, probably music to yours as well. Something else that's music to Chris's ears. Profit. You want to learn about profit and loss? You want to learn about our economic system? Why capitalism or free trade, free markets, whatever word you want to
put on it. Why does it work? You know that Hillsdale College will teach you all this stuff for free. They'll teach you about the Constitution for free, to follow the Roman Republic for free. Hillsdale doesn't get all this incredible knowledge from these amazing professors and make it just for Hillsdale students. They make it for you, for me free. They want everyone to know. Why would we not hoover up knowledge like that? You want it free? Hillsdale dot
edu slash Jesse. There's no cost. Do this with your family, your kids. Take take one class. You'll see what I'm talking about. Hillsdale dot edu slash Jesse. We'll be back. Is the Jesse Kelly Show on a Wednesday. Member You can email the show Jesse at Jesse kellyshow dot com. Love Hey, death threats, ask doctor Jesse questions for Friday. All these things are welcome. Bring it on, all right, I'll give you one more little funny from the Trump thing.
I guess it's a Trump show today. Is this a very good defense?
Hopefully a great defense?
Secret Jeer, it'll be a very good defense. Sector.
You have one hundred percent confidence in.
Confidence in anything?
Okay anything? Do I have one hundred percent?
It's a stupid question. Look it's pretty important because I have no. No, no, you don't have one hundred percent. Only a liar would say I have one hundred percent confidence. I don't have one hundred percent confidence that we're going to finish this interview.
That's pretty good. That's pretty good. I love I love how we treat reporters. Now, that's how I treat Chris and Corey. Makes my life better? Makes what Chris? It makes me feel better? Treating you like crap is that's what you deserve. Let's move on to America headline blue state judge California, of course, attempts to stop border patrol from arresting suspected illegal immigrants without a warrant. We don't have to cover something we've covered at nauseum. But let's
just let's talk about this for a second. Why why illegal immigration? Why are they obsessed with it? Why do they love it? And why is that a consistent thing across the civilized, civilized world. Why if you talk to a Canadian, Canadians are going through this exact same thing. Mass importation of foreigners. Talk to somebody in the UK, same thing. Mass importation of foreigners, Germany. It's been a story worldwide forever. Mass importation France, massa price. Why what
is going on? What is the deal? Remember this? Remember the three characteristics of the evil people who run the West. No love of country. Let's focus on that for a moment. If I don't love the country, if I'm not loyal to the country, well then my only loyalty is to myself, to power, to money, to things like that. Well, if I'm in charge of something a country call it America, and I want more power and money, and I don't care about America, I don't care about crime. I don't
care about the country continuing to exist. Frankly, I don't care about housing prices, or schooling or anything else. Well, why wouldn't I bring in a bunch of loyal people. They have to outnumber the patriotic citizens. All of this comes down to that the patriotic citizen. You, the patriotic citizen, you are what keeps these people up at night. It's not Republicans in the house or sending it or any of that other stuff. The patriotic citizen who loves his
country and wants what's best for his country. That for the elites, that is the most dangerous thing on the planet. It's more dangerous than Russia or Islamic jihad, or disease or anything else. If these people had their way, if they could get rid of one thing on the planet, it would be you. It would be the patriotic citizen, because only the patriotic citizen stands in the way of what they really want, and that's complete control and tearing
over everything. Mass importation of foreigners gets rid of you, you become less of a problem. Oh right, now, you have a vote. Did you know Have you ever sat and thought back, thought about how much power you have? Do you know you have power? You did know that, right? Maybe when it comes to things like presidential elections or the Senate or something, maybe you don't feel like it. Maybe it feels small. Oh I'm one of millions. Okay, maybe I'll even give you that. I won't, but let's
say i'll give you that. Go look up how many people voted in your town's last city council election. Go look it up, really right now. But I don't even care if you ignore me. Pause the radio, turn off the show for a minute. Go look it up, or do it while you listen. How many people voted? Now, think about the power you have. Look at that number. Whatever that number is, it's going to depend on where you are. Now, what if you had voted, What if
you had brought five ten friends? What I got this text message last night, This text message is from a friend, someone I know in town, and this is what he said, Please vote May third. Gave me the name of somebody who he's supporting and told me, by the way, we voted no on all the bonds. That's all the text said, Please vote May third. So and so is who were supporting, and we voted no on all the bonds. So why
did I get this text message. I got this text message because this person gives a crap, got involved, learned about the issues, learned about the election, and now this person is very clearly copying and pasting this text message to every single person in their contact list. This person is going to win elections. This person is not some annoying neighbor. This person has power. You have power, incredible amounts it. You have power. Well, that's what they don't like.
You have a lot less power. When they brought in five people from l Salvador and paid them five hundred dollars to stay in the hotel in town, gave them free this free that that takes away your power. That's why they want unending illegal immigration, and that's why they put into place, very purposely, all these communist judges around the country. The Communist judges were put into place by the communists to protect the revolution. What Joe Biden did,
importing twenty million illegals was a revolutionary act. It was a critical part of the communist revolution of this country. Import new loyal voters, import new criminals who will rape and murder, which only helps the communists gain power. It was a revolutionary act. But the communist isn't stupid. He knew at some point in time people may catch on and may want a reversal of that. So what did
he do. He also put into place judge after judge after judge across the country that will protect that revolution if the American people wake up, which we did and choose to reject it. Now we are in a situation that is very, very difficult. Now we have to deal with what we have in front of us. And now the Trump administration they're going to have to say no, that's the thing. They're going to have to say no.
The judge is going to have to be ignored. And I know that when you start saying things like that, it sounds so extreme, it sounds so harsh, sounds like a wow, we're really we're crossing the rubicon here. Sounds like a bridge too far. If you do not, If the Trump administration does not start ignoring every one of these judges' orders, then Trump's four years are going to accomplish almost nothing. Trump's four years will have been securing the border, which he did. He deserves all the credit
in the world for it. And then I don't know, some executive orders, all of which will be reversed the next time Democrats get into power. Democrats will destroy the energy sector again on purpose. They'll open up the border again on purpose. None of these things will be permanent unless the Trump administration starts to take steps that make people uncomfortable. If you're gonna go ahead and listen to every one of these things, you're not gonna make it,
Absolutely not gonna make it. I know that's a lot to take in. And so people when I say that, people will say, well, Chief Justice Roberts, Supreme Court Justice Roberts, he's the one who needs to step up and put a stop to this. Well, that's right, he does. He should, that's what he should do. But we can't decide whether or not we're going to save the country based on whether or not Roberts decides to do the right thing.
Have he does the right thing good? He made life easier for us and made it more legitimate along the way. If he doesn't ignore him too, round up every single person who is here illegally and send them all home, every single one. I don't care what the judges say. Don't slow down. Increase the pace. There there are now, I said it. We'll get to the good FBI news
in a moment. Let's get to a couple of emails. Next, you're listening to the Oracle you love this Today, member, you can email the show Jesse at jesse kellyshow dot com. Love Hey, dath threats. Everything is welcome. We welcome your emails. Dear fellow veggie hater. Question on communism that I'm sure you've discussed before, but I was hoping you can explain again what do these normy nut jobs think is the end result if they get their way? Have they never
ready his book before? I have a crazy liberal sister that I need to get through to, so I was hoping you can help. I know, I know, don't let them change the subject, which I don't, but it still doesn't seem to get through to her. Thinks she can say my name, my name is Steve, says, it still doesn't get through to her. I'll tell you about I will come back to that point, Chris. Don't let me forget to come back to that point about it not getting through to her. But what do they think is
going to be the end result? I've touched on this before. Let me explain something. The communist foot soldiers who are out there, Activist Democrats, you see them all over the place, and the various Democrat branches. Right there's the feminist branch, and the Black Lives Matter and the abortion lovers and the climate changers in all these things. Don't ever be fooled into thinking that these people have thought about these things to their logical conclusion. And I'm actually not calling
them all stupid. Many of them are really stupid. But you ask, what do they think is going to be the end result? I'm going to explain it in this way. Have you ever in your life struggled with bitterness bitterness about something, anger about something. I'll tell you what. I'll give you an example of me from last night. Last night. I won't go into the details of it, but I got this email and the email was it actually wasn't iHeart,
so I don't think it was iHeart. But I got this email something I'm part of, and the email informed me that I had to log into a new website. I had to do all kinds of different inputting names and addresses and things like that. Jewish producer Chris is already laughing because I don't do these things. These are not things I do. I hate computers, I hate technology. I don't want to log. What would do you click through the porthole and watch the video. Jesse doesn't do
these things. I just spoke about myself in the third person. That was amazing. But I don't. These things make me viscerally angry. And I didn't sign up to do any of these things. All these things got sprung on me. I don't benefit from them. They just kind of landed in my lap. Hey, Jesse, here's a new list of responsibilities for you. Oh, by the way, get that on your schedule right away. No, it's not an hoa, Chris, but you're close. You get what I'm saying. Hey, here's
a bunch of stuff you didn't sign up for. Here's a list of new obligations for you. And by the way, you get to log in a computer which you hate too. Now, there had been a couple other things that happened yesterday. They kind of had me in a bad mood. I had stubbed my toe, Yes I'm serious. I had a bad lunch, Yes I'm serious. Was already in a bad place mentally. I got so angry about this new requirement
last night. I'm ranting and raving around the kitchen. My boys are eating dinner, I'm talking to them, I'm talking to Ob, and I'm ranting and raving about the whole thing that I got to this point last night where I actually said, I'm telling you, if they send me one more email on quitting, one more email, and I'm leaving.
And I'm not even hesitating to come back. Now. Bob, bless her heart, was doing the best she could to try to talk me off the ledge and calm me down because she knew, she knew I was getting to a bad, bad place. She left it go for a little while and then she talked to me about it, and she said, well, let's think about this, what happens if you quit? We followed it to its logical conclusion, and that was all bad. It was a terrible idea
to quit. Now back to communists. Don't think for a moment that they've thought it through to its logical conclusion, and the same way I did not last night when I was ready to quit. They are angry the same way I was about the stupid computer thing. They're bitter. I didn't sign up for this. Why do I have to do this crap? The feminist isn't walking through logically where it ends for her. If she's finally able to beat down every man and everything is I am woman?
Hear me, roar She hasn't thought that through. Well haven't you thought that through? No, she hasn't thought that through. She's not somebody who's a big thinker who's trying to build a civilization. She's angry, she's bitter. What is communism? What is its definition? As I've taught you over and over and over again, A religion of the malcontent, A religion of the malcontent. That is how you become a
successful communist. You identify groups of malcontents and you walk in and you don't try to sell them communism because nobody wants to buy that crap. You walk in and you sell them revenge. You walk in and you tell them, that person you hate, that entity you hate. I will hurt them for you. You give me power and I will hurt them for you. If you want to appeal to one of these Black Lives Matter communist types, you don't sit and read marks to them. You tell them, hey, way,
he has a lot of things. You don't give me power, and I'll smash them for you and give all that stuff to you. Have they thought that through to its logical conclusion, of course not. That's not the point you said. You argue with your sister and she doesn't follow it through due to its logical conclusion. She's just a destroyer right now. She's just bitter. She's me storming around the kitchen after a bad lunch, getting ready to quit because I have to lo I'll get to a website I
don't like, don't. She's not thinking logically, and she won't. She's a destroyer, that's what she does. She's a destroyer. Now, as far as it doesn't seem to get through to her, well, remember it's not just it's not just the malcontent part. That's an important part of communism. For you to understand. The religion part is important too. This whole obsession with destruction your liberal sister has. It's her whole world, and she's built her life. The communist builds his life around
his communism. If you actually manage to shoot down one of her points, if she has to have a moment where she looks in the mirror and has to say I'm wrong, it's not one issue for her the way it is for you. It's her entire religion. Her entire religion comes crumbling down, so she'd rather just lie, rather ignore the truth. It's human nature. This has been a podcast from WR