ZARDOZ & Logan's Run - Esoteric Analysis - Jay Dyer on LF

go straight in to continue our chat. All the preamble stuff that about your book, et cetera, et cetera can be found either in one of the other interviews or at the end of this one. So now two things that we threaten to talk about last two occasions. Where first movie was Zardols from nineteen seventy four. That's a film by director John Burman and star Sean Connery, of all people, not long after he actually finished up his

second stint as James Bond. Now Berman is perhaps better known, I guess One of his best known films is probably Deliverance with Burt Reynolds and John Voight and the other guy whose name I can't remember, the fat Dude, and.

fiction distilly is, you know, visions of the future. Also things being laid out in decades gone by that would very much tie in with things that have happened since, particularly in the realms of technology, science and society, and things that look a lot closer to happening than they did back and movies such as this kind of laid them out. So Zardos is an interesting film. I mean

visually I find it quite ravishing. Really, there's just so many points of interest, so many scenes and sections that he just kind of go wow, you know, look at that. Particularly at the time. It's one of those things where I can't quite imagine what it would be like going to the movies to see that for the first time.

all next door neighbors. And on the shop on the corner, the seven eleven is run by Mick and Keith from the Rolling Stones, and it's.

in Scotland. And at one point and he's saying to like he say, He's saying to whoever it is, Dustin Hoffman, He's trying and saying, I've just taken on a role as a hard nosed cop from Glascow. That's the voice he's gonna do, you know, let me let me.

had no need to do. I'm not quite sure what appealed to him about the idea, but he went with it anyway. And after the success of Deliverance, it seems to me that director John Berman was basically given Kurt Blanche by the studio to say, Okay, that was a big success. You can just do some insane project that you've been ad up your sleeve for a while.

So you get the Nietzschean themes of two thousand and one that are pretty overt with you know, the Wagner piece that Kuber played, and then the idea, you know, Bowman kind of transcending limitations of time and space, which was my analysis of two thousand and one, and here we're trying to go for something even beyond that, and you know it's going to have the dystopian themes, as the tagline says, with nineteen eighty four, but you know

what everyone remembers as Sean Connery and underwear. But the odd thing is that there this movie is really deep. I mean, it's got a lot of symbolism. It's just packed with all these Masonic and esoteric themes. And I think the first thing that comes to mind in regard to what you said is Sean Connery seems to have a penchant for roles related to Masonry. Now I don't know for certain what his you know, Like I said,

I don't know his background. I don't know a whole lot about him personally, but you know, he chose the man who would be king, I think probably because of that Masonic theme where he plays this con man basically who's you know, portraying himself as the reincarnation of Alexander

the Great. And this is to fool a whole bunch of these sort of primitive people, and Himalayas are somewhere, and by extension, you know, Michael Kaine's there and they're they're both going to live as kings, you know, in a more primitive existence and so forth, and this it doesn't work, and then they get basically run out of the the village and h But it's very very Masonic.

And of course Kipling's story would have all that Masonic imagery and thematic elements for a reason, because I'm sure he was you know, tied into that, and in my view, you know, there's a lot of scholarship that's been done on masonry as kind of the outpost of the British Empire that that the the lodges kind of function as these networks for you know, spying on people and transferring secrets and so anywhere that the Empire would extend, you would have you know, the British lodge system set up.

So that's kind of what I think is in the movie with men who would be king, and so you'll see Connery a lot of times taking those kinds of roles and he's very much in a Masonic role here. You know, there's a memorable image from the movie where he finds that magic ring. It's kind of like a a futuristic ring version of the Eye Watch where he can you know, have access to basically the Internet is

what he's accessing here in the movie. But you know it displays this image of an eye on his head, you know, this all seeing eye on the on his third eye. So yeah, again this is this movie is replete with all this kind of stuff. But what we have is a future dystopia with these roving bands of tribes we see at the beginning, and it's very bizarre. As you said, they they talk about their guns as if they're phallic. I'm not sure why that part is

in there. I think I may have left that the analysis because I didn't really understand what they were getting at. But basically, they're they're breeding is controlled, and there's this immortal class of persons who flies around in these giant heads and they present themselves as gods and so zed.

The The Sean Connery character sort of figures out that this is a scam and he kills one of the quote immortals and then rides back to the compound or the Elysian fields, where these immortals live in this very apathetic, very blase existence where they don't care about anything and everything is because they don't have any pain or sorrow or you know that they have every pleasure at their fingertips.

And what happens is that Sean Connery, as this savage you know, kind of invades their eden, their xt state, and causes an uproar. He basically fosters a revolution somewhat inadvertently, and you know, you would think with a typical kind of dystopian film that it would be, Oh, you know, they cause the revolution and they overthrow the dystopian rulers and then you know, the good guys are in power. But that's not where this film goes. It goes into

a very very bizarre direction. And then what you learn I'm going to go ahead and spoil it if you haven't seen the movie, is that the name of the film is based on the fact that he rediscovers books because the elite in this movie have hoarded all the knowledge. They have basically a giant pyramid that's a big ai system that allows them not just to control their environment and the kind of super smart city, they can also

reincarnate or resurrect. So they've they've mastered every possible secret of nature and you know, it's a lot and have immortality, but they've learned that immortality in this film's presentation, at least, you know, it leaves you empty. Once you've had all the pleasures, there's there's nothing else left for you. So Zed starts the revolution, and what happens is that it is in a way successful, and some of the gods kind of join him in the revolution. They end up

all killing each other. So this again The Nietzschean theme is very prominent here because I think, you know, Nietzsche would say things like, the elite, you have these cycles in history. It's a very cyclical presentation in this film Eternal Return and so forth. And the reason that the power structures collapse is because they insulate themselves from the rest of the world. You know that we've all heard this about elites throughout history with you know, Chinese emperors

couldn't walk on the ground. They would have people carry them around on poles and stilts, and they would bind the women's feet because women and weren't supposed to walk around the elite, you know, women weren't supposed to walk all this weird stuff that they come up with. And what happens is when you get really insular like that and there's all this incest and inbreeding, you know, like

amongst the British elite, you end up detached. And Nietzsche argues that that detachment from the real world actually ends up being the destruction of the elite, which is an interesting thesis, and I think that's kind of what's going on here in Borman's film, because the revolution is successful, but instead of adopting you know, the technology of immortality.

They kind of destroy it, they get rid of it, and you're left at the end of film with this kind of oral buro scenario of the you know, the snake eating its own tail, because Z and his wife are kind of halfway pictured as Adam and Eve, and so you're kind of left with the idea, oh, maybe this is you know, just the whole cycle of all of the history of mankind being represented, and you know, maybe and maybe what I'm not saying this is absolutely true,

but I'm saying that the film is kind of proposing the thesis of you know, maybe we think about elites gaining you know, transhumanist abilities and all this kind of stuff, and then and then maybe one day it collapses and then it all just starts over again and we're right back to Adam and Eve. And so I thought that

was kind of interesting. That was a that was kind of the message of the New Battlestar Galactica if you saw that, if you saw the the end of the series, was that, you know, you're thinking the whole time that this is going on in the future, and then you realize, oh, this is actually starts the end of the series. Is Adam and Eve more or less, so, you know, alternate theories of origins that kind of ties in the Greek mythology, you know, the mists of the gods. That was my

take on Zardas. What about you, well, I.

you mentioned the word transhumanism. I think that's very much where we're headed. And I think for me that Zed in Zardo's it's a little bit like sort John the Savage type character and breeding New World. Yeah, it's kind of you see in Zardo's the react they kind of the fascination that they have with Zed this character and put it it's the animal nature of man that they have left behind.

You know, for me, it was kind of about balance because it's like you saw the world that the brutals as they're called in Zardo's living. It's this post apocalyptic kind of wasteland. Yeah, but so's social class that he's part of is a classic middle of a hierarchy type thing, like an enforcer kind of rule, not really like police, but they kind of sit between the elite and the masses at the bottom of the pyramid, and that we see that very much in our society. So they're almost

slightly privileged. Zed's kind of exterminator class. You see the way some of the brutals live and it's not a lot of fun, But then you see the way the elites live, and you kind of think, well, in some ways Zed and his cohorts kind of have it good, and for me things get worse. Things are already bad for the brutals, things are get worse for the elite. And it's actually Zed in this kind of like in

his moments of nosis kind of coming to understanding. He gains in power throughout the film, and you can see him kind of like taking control. So the end, as you say, which is kind of like almost as Adam and Eve type wrap it up and start again thing. You can read that any way you want. You can read it as like, oh, here we go again. But for me it was kind of like, well, it's another chance we don't you know, the future isn't written yet.

At the end of it, I kind of thought, yeah, you know, well done from Zand.

because where's the source of knowledge. It's the head. That's actually a thing that comes up in a lot of films too, by the way, with like very Baron von Munchausen. There's that planet where you know, Robin Williams's head is just floating around and he has no understanding of the body.

And that's that's kind of what you're getting at that the bodily desires have kind of been discarded because the elite perspective was that the body was the problem and we've got to transcend that and if we can just transcend that, will we'll be free, will be if you know, we won't have those problems anymore. But they've forgotten and as you said, they're mystified by his brutal nature. And then that's why you get these guys who are kind of like that that one guy, he's got the head dress.

They look like a sphinx, which is interesting because so they have this kind of Egyptian aesthetic to them where they literally look like, you know, the sphinx statue, and it harkens back to you know, Egyptology, and that's why

they're tabernacle. The Ai thing is this big pyramid, And the irony you said is that I think part of it is showing that the class warfare doesn't really get you what you want, because it's all predicated on the idea of, oh, if I can rise up in the ranks, if I can overthrow the people above me, if I could just have access to what they've got, then I'll

be happy. And then what you find out is that every time you, you know, if you've got a million dollars, and then you attain a billion dollars, you basically just inherit a whole other level of problems. So you're right in many ways, Z's middle class I guess you could say middle to lower class existence actually had a lot of positives, and there are a lot of negatives that would have come along with him trying to kind of move into the status of the elite, and it just

doesn't work. And I'm not necessarily trying to say that everything about class systems or class systems is good. I'm just saying that that's kind of an interesting argument you could make from the is that, you know, do we really get anything better when the revolutions come? And I think if you look at something like the French Revolution. No, I don't think so, just real quick in adendum, and it's on my mind because we covered it in the

show that I did. We did an episode on Christopher Nolan's Batman trilogy, which has its pros and its cons, but one of the interesting themes at the end of the trilogy was that when Bain tries to initiate his revolution, and you can look at Bain as kind of the anarcho syndicalist character, the the nightmare that arises out of the you know, far East. You know, we don't know, we don't understand this guy, and he's got a thing on his face that makes them dog very weird. And

he institutes his revolution and it ends up worse. And then you have this imagery with you know, Killian Murphy is sitting atop this giant stack of books and he's basically deciding who's loses their head and who doesn't. And you know, it's very Robespierre. It looks just like you know, Rosepeer's Committee for Public Safety sitting there kind of just lopping off heads. And so that the Baine Revolution, you know,

doesn't do anything positive. It basically ruins everything and and Gotham ends up in a worse state than they were before, which is a curious message for you know, a big blockbuster, and I think you're kind of getting a similar idea. I think you could argue here with with you know, Z's revolution. In a way, I guess it it's positive because what does that do well? It basically just goes back to kind of a you know, an earthy, living in nature kind of existence. You know, he's living in

a cave and they basically just accept death. Yeah.

book says. You're looking at, you know, symbolism and these hidden meanings and what agendas might be being furthered by this. You look at the connections between the CIA and Hollywood and propaganda. So we're talking about messages coming to us here witting, unwittingly, or deliberately. But my point is we get so many messages these days about elites, about transhumanism, about the development of technology, about the Bill Gates and the Elon Musks of this world, and about how this reminded me.

their Elysian fields. And then that's interesting because, as you mentioned, Bill Geyser made me think of it, and Elon Musk, you know, these are the guys who talk about literally creating a breakaway civilization.

it'll just they'll destroy themselves. So it's like, no matter what the benefits are of all this this technical utopian stuff, it kind of ends up in a bad place. And that was a common message in dystill being sci fi in the seventies, but even today when when they try and spin something that we're all, oh, yes, I can't wait to dump my body, you know, and I can't wait till like my brain is, you know, in a jar of pickling vinegar or whatever. You know, I just

want to know. I want to live for a thousand years, ten thousand years. Why not? You know that these stories of films, the books, whatever it happens to be, they end not kind of giving the same message, which it ultimately is negative. But yet and all that, the the barrage of this stuff continues a pace, doesn't it, really, Because whether it's Ted Talks or whether it's endless propaganda about saving the environment or whatever it happens to be, you know through all these you know, like all the

latest technology, driverless cars, on and on and on. This is incessant, but it never seems to the propaganda never seems to at a deep level anyway completely satisfy people or completely do away with their concerns. And I think that, as you saw in Zardal's there's a visceral animal part of our nature that we never completely lose touch with, and I think we do so at our peril because like you and I are not running around, you know, having to fight with our bare hands every day to

defend ourselves. We're not having to kill with their bare hands in order to eat. We're not having to secure a mate by doing by killing and you know, clubbing another guy over the head and taking his woman or whatever. But there's still a point you can get where you become detached from any of that stuff and you lose a lot of what it is to be human. For me, my gut instinct is that something that's really that must

not be allowed to happen. And I know that that I had gotten into arguments and discussions with people are just saying, oh, you know, why on earth would you want to hold onto this if we could have the following and maybe I'll be proven wrong, but something in me, the transhumanist agenda taken as a whole, just generically what it basically is about. To me, this must be resisted with every favor of my being. That's my instinct.

is ever going to happen. I think that's a bunch of nonsense and a that's the scam of transhumanism because it's all predicated on naturalistic materialism, you know, the idea that you don't actually have a soul or a spirit or a pecul or a noose, and that it's just

basically all just the chemical reactions. And so you'll actually see the transhumanists like you mentioned the Ted Talks, and if you watch any of these big billionaires that are into transhumanism, and some of them are actually transgenders, and they try to I'm not joking, they try to create these bots that they think are copies of their lovers. I forget the name of this one. It's like there's there's like a black woman bought that this transgender billionaire

has tried to create. And the argument is that, oh, it actually is my black woman lover because it has her voice and she has recorded a lot of her life and memories, and so therefore it's her. And that's again all based on this ridiculous naturalistic presubsition that see that you're just the chemical reactions that you know occur

in your brain. There's nothing more. And so I guess by extension, if that's the case, then you know, if you're playing a YouTube video of me talking about Bill Cosby, then that's the same as me, yes, which is really stupid, but I mean that's literally what they try to push. And I've seen Ted Talk people try to push that same thing.

of time. Everything's just a matter of time. Look how we've come, they say, you know, and I'll say them, okay, you know, we're joining to the end of our discussion, or actually I'm just bored now, so I'm going to end it. But I'll say something like, okay, okay, okay, let's just cut to the chase.

be darn ray. Kurtzfeiler said, by twenty thirty, this will happen. Elon Musk says, yeah, that's doable. Blah blah. Set a date with me. Now we're gonna have to wait a few year. Set a date with me, and you tell me the amount, and you're going to say, this could be done and this will happen. Tell me how much money you want a stake, and I'll go for it, because it's a question. The question you have to ask yourself if you're betting on this is how much can

I afford to lose? Because that's how confident I am. And do you know what, maybe people have just thought I wasn't serious. People get quite defensive, they get quite angry, and they will not even consider entering into a bet with me. I've said, we can do a contract if you want, we can get this witness, we can make this legal, we make it enforceable law. And then well that doesn't work, I say, okay, let's just take it

down and notes. Let's say something that you're convinced is going to be happening in the next five years, and let's have an amount of money that's substantial, but it's not going to ruin us tenos well that works whatever, you know, and they will not go for it, and they get really angry if I try and say, give me something, give me this, because it's measurable, it's actionable, and if you're so confident, what's the problem exactly?

And you know, Regina Dugan, who was formerly at DARPA now at Google, was at Builderberg Google last year, I think talking about this, and and you know that I watch is kind of a step in that direction. Now. I I'm not saying anything wrong with an eyewatch, obviously

it's that would be stupid. But what I'm saying is that they're going to, I think, to try to find ways to integrate this into the actual body of the human and that is the predicted programming that we've been seeing for so long, all the way back to Ship,

all the way back to probably Logan's run. I mean, you know there's that scene where he kind of sitting in that chair and they're doing some kind of like mind control thing on him, and then you know, you think about the Matrix and jacking in and I just saw a Ghost in the Shell recently, and that has the same theme. Actually that came out before the Matrix in its cartoon form, uh, And that's all based on

all the exact same stuff. And I was kind of blown away actually at the level of transhumanism that was in Ghost in the Shell wasn't as successful, I don't think as they hoped it would be. But when you watch that movie, and again it's a mediocre movie, but Scarlet Johansson really has this penchant, I guess for these transhumanist movies like Lucy where she's you know, turned into some sort of cyborg goddess of some kind. But it's

a scam because if you here's a funny thing. Even Ray Kurtzwell, I heard him do a talk where he was saying, actually a lot of people who think about transhumanism or the like the idea of downloading your mind to a computer. He's like, that might happen one day millennia away. But he's like, if you think about it, this was a I couldn't believe you said this. He said,

the human body is actually a very proficient machine. And he said, you know what, actually, if we were to try to really initiate transhumanist he's like, it's not going to be where you put your brain into some hard drive. It's more like, how can we enhance the existing system or create a copy of the existing system, And that kind of I was like, oh wow, So what's ironic here? Is that the idea. I'm not joking about this, you

can this is a theory I have. I think that a lot of the transhumanist elite that they actually kind of want to mimic Christianity. Believe it or not, you say, well, that's crazy. They hate Christianity, think it's a joke. Well, I think on the surface they do. But when you see Ray Kirtsvell say stuff like that, like, oh, actually, the human body is a really good machine for what it for what it does, and maybe we should actually

construct some kind of machine like that. And then and then you watch Avengers Age of Ultron and the Paul Bettany character. I don't remember what that. I'm not a big superhero person now that I'm an adult. All the all the guys in America are like still into this, you know, comic book shit when they're like forty, it's kind of ridiculous. But that Paul Bettany character is some kind of I forget his name, like the Mystery I think it's his name or something stupid like that. But

he is a like a resurrected kind of body. It's like he's a he's the he is the transhumanist character in the film, and he's like, you know, he's he's got a body that has all these capabilities beyond you know, whatever the former human body had or whatever. And that's actually what Ray Kurzwell says. He's like, he's like, yeah, we need to just fix the existing system and turn

it into something. He's like, because look, if you think about it, you know, the human mind is constructed such that it it has a focus on one thing at one time, Like you know, if you're looking at I'm looking at a Mad magazine cover right now in my in my living room, like I'm not looking at the backyard at the same time. And he's making the argument that you can only really focus on one thing at one time. He's like, so, there's not really a way for the human person simply because it is a finite

subject to have like ten different vantage points. You know, we're not going to have a bug eye that allows us to see, you know, like a fly does, like like Jeff Goldblum in the Fly or so where he can see you know, twenty different or a thousand. However many eyes bugs have, you know, a thousand different vantage

points or whatever. He's like, that's that's very extremely complex, and it would be very difficult to you know, rewire the human brain to try to incorporate something even as simple as you know, the different vantage points that a bug has something like that. So and when you think about that and you think, oh, yeah, actually that makes

a lot of sense. And so you know, if there was going to be some kind of transhumanism that they're probably going to try to shoot for something along the lines of a mimicked version of Christianity, believe it or not, where you have a resurrection and if you know, if you read the Gospel of John I'm not saying this is true. I'm saying this is I could see how they would look at it this way, like, oh, you know, you see Jesus at the end of the Gospel of John,

and he's in his same body, but it's resurrected. It's it's not bound by time and space, it's not mortal. It has all these properties and characteristics that it's able to do things that it wasn't doing before the resurrection. Now, obviously,

again I'm not saying they believe in Christianity. I just wonder if they don't have like a kind of a covert gnostic alteration of, Hey, why don't we take the mythology of Christianity and maybe turn it into you know, like a technological version and you know, something like out of Avengers, Age of Ultron. I mean, that's kind of wacky. I'm out there speculating.

deserve it. But these things quite often go too far, don't they overshoot?

You know it could have negative effects for us, simply because it's a reaction that turns into an overreaction, I guess, to the imposition of this technocratic so called utopia on the rest of us. I'm thinking one of the most striking stories in amongst the driverless cars kind of crashing themselves was people. I think it was in San Francisco. I don't know if there's one incident. I think it's probably multiple incidents, but people on the streets wearing Google

glass being attacked because they were wearing Google glass. The attackers I don't remember. I didn't read any stories in detail, but there are some kind of motivation. These were not random attacks, and I suspect.

activists and people who are opposing transhimitism. That's literally what's going on in the movie. So you you maybe I think you're onto something there that, yeah, we might have a kind of societal breakdown where the you know, people try to initiate a Butlerrian jahad like in the Doone novels.

seen have become aloof and detached from reality. And they're an elite living up there in Camelot and their shiny armor and their round table and their shiny swords, and they're living in their own little you.

God has forsaken this society. The whole world for them has just got a whole lot darker as a result of what they see as the mishandling as the uh you know that the evil science of the g real Knights.

being raised by iPads. You know, little kids now are being raised by iPads, and so I think they're going to be very primed for the acceptance of whatever the next phases of bodily modification and stuff like that. And you mentioned the driverless cars. I don't mean to change subject, but it just reminded me. I couldn't believe I watched that stupid Arnold Schwarzenegger movie Sixth Day, I think not too long ago, and that came out in two thousand and it begins with Google driverless cars.

of dystopian sci fi in many ways. We had roller Ball, which we talked about in the previous installment, Soilent Green t h X one one three eight, which is George Lucas' first film, developed from a project he first did when he was a film student, a fairly a lesser known film starting all over Red called z PG or Zero Population.

So just just just cherry pick a few of your favorite aspects of Logan's Run then and just set there was a.

of stories that you don't see in others. But yeah, this has a very strong euthanasia theme, right, So everybody has this very easy existence in the big plastic ai smart city and you are deleted, you know. You what's and what's weird about it is that once again it's a kind of religious manipulation like we saw in Zardas, right, which was this faux religion that's kind of the noble lie of Plato that's foisted upon the tech utopia. And then when you reach a certain age of what was

a thirty or thirty three, you you you're insiderated. But they've turned it into this happy floating ritual where you kind of dance around and float away and you float into the furnace or something. And which is funny because that again, this is very platonic. It's very much the the idea that you know, Plato said, oh well, the the ideal republic, which all the utopias are all based

on the idea public of Plato. Well, they've got to have the noble life, fake religion, because you know, you're never going to have all of the society being philosopher kings. And you know, the philosopher king understands that men have

to be governed. And you got to have the rigid hierarchy, and you've got to have the you got to lie to the masses because you know they're just too stupid, and you got to keep them their population under control, like like the Wildlife Authority you know, controls the deer population here in Tennessee, for example, because there'll be too

many of them. Uh. And you know, so that you have all those Malthusia and Eugenics themes, and then what happens is you got the the Promethean character of Logan five, who the Michael Yorke character who finally figures out that not everything in his Edenic existence is what it appears

to be. And that's of course always one of the great themes of the Dystopian stories, and I think why they resonates so well with all of us living in the age that we live in now, especially with the awareness of the new world order and all that we realized that, you know, we have not been told what is true. We've been told all this Bologne, and we

live in the synthetic society. And you know, as the great philosopher Jean Baldrizard predicted in his book Simulacround Simulation, we are almost entering into a point where it's beyond synthetic. It's like a synthetic version of the synthetic.

things in this synthetic park. And then it gets even more meta because we're in the movie theater watching all of this syntheticness. Now I may have mentioned that before, but that just always blows my mind when when this synthetic topic comes up and I think about how like these gamers, right like these very popular YouTube channels of gamers who sit there people are watching people play a video game, and it just blows my mind. And then you know, there are some channels where it's like people

watching people watching a video game going. I mean, it's it's just like madness. But so we're getting into these kind of infinite removals, you know, of meta of synthetic dystopia here in our reality that I don't even think these people could have could have come up with. But and again, all of that's kind of hinted at here

in Logan's run. Another interesting element is governing the people in the dystopia through their base desires, right hedonism rules you have like these, you basically go home and you tell the computer what you want. The computer produces the like a Holow deck on Star Trek or something like that, Like you get the synthetic babe or whatever. And like you said, yeah, it's very much like The Island, I think. I think Michael Bay and he kind of blended a

whole bunch of the dystopias together. I mean, I actually think The Island is a decent movie. If you go back and watch it, it's not as bad as you would think, coming from Michael Bay. But but yeah, it is kind of like just a cut and paste of all the dystopias. So there's all this I guess we should mention other you know, the symbolism too, of like the lotus. So there's this I lotus crystal, which is this Buddhist Hindu imagery and in those traditions, interesting that

it references the heart and the passion. So the lotus is a reference to the flower of life, which if we think about like sacred geometry and Pythagoreanism and Platonic mysticism, the flower of life signifies the ecosphere, the biosphere as a whole, and this gets into the platonic solids and how in Pythagoreanism everything's kind of built upon itself up

into you know, second, third, fourth dimension reality. And the reason I say that is that again we're back to Platonism, and that's a I think direct conscious referencing of all these Platonic ideas. And you say, well, Platonism isn't Buddhism. Actually, there's a lot of similarities between ancient Hindu ideas and Buddhist ideas and Platonism, and people have written many books on that. I cite one of those books in my analysis. And really what we're just talking about sacred geometry here,

and that is mastering the secrets of sacred geometry. This is what Plato talks about the republic. That's how you construct the utopia. Literally, now I'm not saying it's a real utopia. I'm just saying that that's how it's viewed in the mystic texts, is that you master these things. You know, Plato says that the philosopher king has to go off for like twenty years and study math. Like you go for twenty years and you study geometry, math, master all that, and then you've got to come back

and master the art or ruling men. And that's the true philosopher king, right, So it's not just you know, meditating on a mountain. For Plato, it's a little more pragmatic. You've got to actually come back and use that nosis and wisdom that you supposedly have obtained to rule the city state. And that's everything that we're saying here in

Logan's run. And there's also Crolean elements too. I think you've got this kind of new aon where death has been accepted as this kind of necessary part of existence and of the regime. The regime just has to to kill people, supposedly because you know, we got to keep balance in the population for the ecosphere and all this kind of stuff inside the the bubble Doome city, which

by the way, is very Disney. You know. You look at the kind of silly little models and artwork that was used for the movie and it looks almost exactly like Epcot, and you say, well, what's the connection there? And we have mentioned this on the first talk. I can't remember, but it's come up a few times. The Pentagon was directly involved with big corporations like the Semens Corporation in designing Epcot and it's it was called the City of Tomorrow, so believe it or not, Epcot Center

and Disney. I'm not joking. This is one hundreercent truth. That was predictive programming, planning, conditioning people to accept the coming smart cities. They knew back then there would be smart cities, there would be all this reorganization, you know, under the kind of Agenda twenty one Model of Cities and a New City's Initiative and all this kind of stuff Target cities. I'm not joking about that, by the way, Yeah, you mentioned that before.

it goes. So these are in that sort of style Zeitgeist's movements there kind of vision of future cities and what's what's that that just looks like something of a set from Lubin's Run or any of these other dystopian sci fi or you know, I remember looking at rewatching Clockwork Orange and just going, oh, it's the Zeitgeist streets and plazas and stuff, except that, oh, here, we have here, we have so called real life. Here, we have the you know, the ugliness of the animal kicking its jackboot

into all of this. What word does this kind of resolution come. It's when some of the characters reconnect with nature, you know, outside of the dome city. That's very much the theme in t X one one three year. Oh yeah, they finally get finally get above ground and reconnect with nature.

Soorcia Ronan and Bill Murray called City of Ember. And it's a very well done dystopian movie for for kids. And in that film, they're all underground. It's a future dystopia. And you know that, I don't think I'm spoiling it for anybody by saying that. You know, the end of the film is that the whole civilization was based on Why and Sorsia Ronan and whoever the male lead guy was,

they exit the city. And what the irony in that one was that the Bill Murray plays a great sort of dissolute, corrupted president of the of the civilization or whatever he is, the mayor, that's what he's the mayor, uh and and he doesn't even remember the real story,

so he actually believes the bullshit. And that's the irony of sometimes of the dystopias is that, you know, maybe in the earliest days in these fictional presentations, we have the idea that you know, the leaders thought, oh, it's going to be for the best if we create the giant y for the civilization, and then like five hundred years later, they've forgotten that. So they actually believe that, you know, oh, you can't step outside the dome city

because the error is toxic. You know, there's there's nuke nuke dust and radiation and which is all made up. And you know that that was a great theme in City of Member. So if you haven't seen that, I actually recommend it's pretty good films.

ruining everything for the technocrats. I mean that's you see that in a way in Blade Run or Don't You a classic dystopian film, because not necessarily in a good way, but you've got i mean, the central characters like a heavy drinker to the point of being an alcoholic. Everything's

really grimy, the weather suck. Because there's so many things about the future in that film that kind of kind of where you thought, yeah, this was all really shiny and brilliant, wasn't it when it was kind of new, And now it's all just kind of gone the way all tech does. It kind of rusts and seizes up, it has it has scum on it.

And isn't it interesting what a difference there is, particularly brought out in movies, What a difference there is in leadership that arises from so called from the bottom and that which is generally imposed from the top. That's that's the thing that comes up in a lot of movies. And you see that. I mean, the first one that came to mind was Gladiator. This using example that a

lot of people know. You've got Russell Crue's character Maximus, a very strong, capable, smart leader as he turns out to be, but he's come up from the ranks, and so he's a bit like a sergeant in the army in a way, do you know what I mean? Or the guy that the men look up to because he's done what they've done.

these pro wretches, contempt and petty. And in the army, I suppose you get the guys. I don't know what it's like in the US Army, but in the British Army, you get the guys that go to Sandringham wherever it is, you know, to officers school, and that you know, they've never been in the rank and file, never been in the infantry, and their combat experience may be very limited, a bit like the guy in Aliens. Do you remember the guy the military guy who's like parachuted in ye.

like courage. It's when he's up against it, but it shows that he kind of has that within him when he sacrifices himself with you know that the the the girl, the female soldier, you know, and he's kind of only then only that's only in that human situation. Only when he's forced to actually act does he find really some kind of courage, whereas Burke is just you know, as a slime ball from beginning to end.

younger people, but also older generation as well. I mean people of our age, people who are old enough to be our parents, you know, maybe the people who are our parents. And it's you know, the digital natives versus digital immigrants. I think the word is. You know that you and I are probably to some extent digital immigrants, because we probably have always known personal computers, but we haven't always known smartphones and the Internet and everything else.

Digital natives being those kids or young people that have been born into this. And we're seeing some negative effects here, and yet we're not here to discuss the positives. Okay, we're not here to dig some of the positives. You and I are talking with technology, we're talking over the Internet. It's amazing technology. I wouldn't want to be without it, even though I think we might be someday, maybe in

a couple hundred years time. But you see so much apathy and so much vitality being drained away from a certain type of person who get immeshed in technology and I'm obsessed with it, and they live through it to the point where sometimes their never mind, their minds atrophying, sometimes their bodies waste away. I don't know if you've

read anything about that. In particular, there's a class of young person in Japan, there's a name for them that I can't quite remember, who basically live with their parents and spend all their time in one room. And I've read a story recently about a number of kids who have died as a result of going on three, four or five day gaming marathons during work. They did not

eat and did not sleep. And this passion, this sense of purpose, dry fire, desire, these things that seem to historically have driven us on as a species, good and all, but anything that we've achieved it you can look back and say, Wow, it's been that. I'm also reading a lot of articles in general about well, the first ones I read, we're along the lines of what's happening to men?

You know, where are they? You know this young women just sort of saying you've got these like gaming, slack job to kine of phrase, pencil nets, slugs, this is the next generation of these, our future husbands and fathers. But I also start to read these sorts of things now about young women, you know, and why would the effects really be any differently, just affect you know, the different genders somewhat differently because the genders are different, but it's the same basic phenomenon.

You know, you've got girls going into UFC fighting. You know, you've got women. The argument is now they need to be in special forces and on the front lines. And simultaneously for the men, the programming is, like you said, enter into the what Max Kaiser called a long time ago, the virtual gulag, you know, the synthetic video game realm.

So it's this total reversal of the norms, and it's absolutely by design, and it's a I don't think we have to look a whole lot further than just the depopulation. I mean, the whole goal of all that is just I mean there's probably other experiments too, you know, more specific localized experiments of you know, what what can we do with you know, what happens to somebody who plays

video games, you know, for five days straight? What's the effects of I'm sure that government's done experiments of that of that nature. But overall the plan is really just to mess people up so they don't reproduce. I think that's I think it's pretty that pretty simple in that regard. And you know, we've mentioned many times Aldus Tuxley and WIT's in Brand New World, but being Bertrand Russell says this very clearly too in the scientific outlook and impacted

science on society. That the goal would be to really just mess people up. I mean, it's just pretty much that simple.

referred to her. And the father was talking to her just when the kid wasn't around, and it was just in person or on the phone or something, and he was saying, yeah, you know, I remember they kind of had a bit of a little bit of a party over at the house. Not not kids old enough to be smoking and drinking and stuff, you know, they were just doing what slightly younger kids, but they were they were teenage kids being the point you know that they

were they passed puberty. And he said, also, I just went down to the basement, you know, because we have it turned into a kind of a den, and you know there was the guys and the girls, you know, my son and all his friends and some some girlfriends I you know, female friends, not Nestley girlfriends in dating or anything like that. And he said there were there were going to throw cushions and stuff on the floor, and they were all kind of like lying there and

kind of just chatting and doing stuff. And they were something that were kind of draped over each other. And he was kind of, you know, just looking on Okay, you know, there there's my son with the girl dripped over, and there's one of the other lads and this kind of girl lying with him, so you know, doing anything, not doing any harm, but there they are. You know,

it's just blah blah blah. And he thought and he said to this psychologist, he said, man, I couldn't have done that without getting aroused when I would that age. But he said, they were all just lying there like exactly like the immortals and Zartles. You know, that's my free is not his, but you know that's what it was.

quote sciences are that Obama appointed. He wrote back in the late seventies, that big fat book with Paul Erlick and other Malthusian global warming guy that you know that you could do all this through you know, chemicals in the environment, chemicals in the water, you know, inoculations, vaccines, all that, and you know, again, this is just it's just the restating of what Bert and Russell said so many years ago, one hundred years ago. And I mean, I'm not trying to be base. It's just it's really

is that simple. You know, we can do all the analysis and trying to plumb the depths of all this stuff. But that's really the big plan in my view.

the US? Have you seen like there are the I mean, I'm sure this is true of the Western world and probably other areas as well, like Japan or something especially, but there are these giant conventions and they just get bigger and bigger and bigger every year, and they pop up in every city and it's like not just I mean, when I was a kid, there used to be comic book conventions at maybe a few cities, and the San Diego Comic con is very famous. I went to that

when I was a kid. No, it's neat, you know, Spider Man, Batman. But now it has become this gigantic industry and the big I'm not joking. Look this up. The A listers can even make more money by convention appearances than they do in their films. Chris Evans, the guy who's Captain America, he can make more at one convention than he does, you know, in the whole I'm not joking, look that up. It's crazy. And so it's it's just this whole other realm of the cosplay theme.

That's that's kind of taking on a new life of its own. I've been speculating with some of my friends that I think what they might even do in the future, I'm not joking, but but so we think about, oh, it's going to Logan's run. There's gonna be you know, like a big plastic city, smart city. No, no, no, here's what I think they're gonna do. I think they will actually create, like, imagine a whole state or a

whole region that is Avatar World. Imagine a whole land that is Harry Potter Land, and you can literally go immerse yourself in that world. Now, it'll be totally a sy op, totally mind control. By the way, this is don't steal this. This is my idea for a sci fi dystopia. Of course, you know you can if you write a dystopian story that way, you can't use Avatar or anything like that. You get sued. But I think that I think that's what they're gonna do. And Disney

was the test bed for this. So I don't think it'll totally all be virtual. I think you'll have I mean, I think we're a long way away from people totally living inside the matrix. But you know, we're going to continue to see these big DARP Pentagon style projects where they create, you know, entire areas. I mean, I'm amazed. For example, at disney in down in Florida, which I've been a few times in my life. Last time i

went was about five years ago. And so when I was a kid, you would go to Disneyland and there would be the Magic Kingdom, which was kind of the central theme park, and then they added there was Epcot Magic Kingdom that was kind of it maybe a few beaches and resorts or something. Now when you go there are whole worlds, Like you go to Harry Potter World, you go to you know, they're opening Avatar World now, so entire parks are expanding based on Avatar, Harry Potter.

It just kind of blew me out. I was like, I cannot believe this is insane. So it's almost like Vegas, you know what Vegas is for adults. It's gonna I think it's going to merge into something like Disney World, and the dystopia that we're gonna see is going to be something just mind boggling like that.

pantheon were interesting to me. But when you get guys that are like your age or my age, and they're kind of like on a weekend, you know, kind of kissing their kids and their wife and then say, you know, for they I don't know if there is such a man as astro Man, but they're kind of putting on a fucking cape and going off the weekend. I am astro Man, and this kind of.

that's been that's been designed and engineered. And all you have to do to to note that that's true is study the history of Disney World and Disneyland. Well, have you been to have you been to Epcot? By chance?

Big golf Ball, right, that's Epcot Center. So you ride this roller coaster that just kind of circles around inside the Big Ball I'm not making this up. You can I think people have, you know, posted their videos of it on YouTube. You can go watch people writing EPCOT. So you go through the story is a mythology, and

it's the history of mankind inside EPCOT. And so you're like, oh, here you are as the Darwinian Apes, and then you grew up into these ancient civilizations and so you're writing through the animatronic Egyptian Land and you're going through I'm not joking, you're going through ancient China Land. And so then at the end of it, I'm at a loss for words just because it stupid. So the last part of it is like if you've moved up into the present day of mankind and it's like, where are we

going into the future? Right, because EPCOT is all about futurism. And the very last second to last thing that you see is a nerd in his basement creating a computer. And it's like this little Bill Gates. It's like a little animatronic Bill Gates guy at in his garage working on a computer. Uh, and it's you know, and then and then EPCOT, the little module that you're writing in. Then you go into the matrix that's how it ends. Wow. Yeah, now you say, well, what's the point of that? So

what who cares? That's a stupid ride. No, No, EPCOT is an indoctrination center. The whole thing is the entire project, the whole It's all created by the Pentagon. That's why Walt Disney was doing all of that propaganda. He was making all his propaganda movies. He was involved in the Laurel Canyon stuff. Uh. You know, go back to Daffy Duck. Uh telling you to join the military and pay your taxes. That's all. That's all propaganda. And so it's been linked to the Pentagon the entire time.

I can see now. To me, it just looks like an accident waiting to happen. So you're not going to get me up in one of those. But in general, what you described about Epcot whatever, I'm like, why are we doing this? And I've been to some interactive museums and stuff. That I found interesting. It depends where it's pitched in what the level is, isn't it you know, But in general, what we would call a theme park to me is like why am I here? Okay, we'll get a hot dog and then we'll go okay, because

I just don't want to be here. It's always felt to be like one massive distraction, especially when they try to recreate things. You know, the whole idea of going to the middle of a landlocked contrary and oh they've created a They've created a beach, so god forbid you go to the beach. You don't have to go to the beach anymore. You can go to beach World. Yes, exactly, completely enclosed, you know, sort of climatically controlled, three hundred and sixty five day a year experience.

so there's like you have to scan biometrics to get in. Like, there's no way they did that. But that was a selling marketing point, which is I guess kind of clever. But this film and I did do an analysis of a long time ago, but this was overlooked. People didn't I guess didn't see it. Maybe didn't have as big a marketing as you would think, but very very deep, very esoteric, very dark themes in this it's a dystopian kind of story actually, but it shows all of the

stuff that I'm talking about in the movie. Now. It's curious because what I'm suggesting is that it would seem Disney was behind the film if they allowed I mean, you know all that goes into shooting a film. There's no way they did this without Disney knowing inside the freaking theme park. But so if Disney was involved covertly, then you are about to have your mind blown about revelation of the method when you watch this movie.

happens exactly. West World's a new thing on TV. But I'm thinking back which I haven't seen yet, but you can tell us about that in the second But going back to the original movie of West World, based on

a Michael Crichton's story. What you've got there is a grown men going to just regressing into like, you know, pre pubacent boyhood, going to this wild West theme park with the latest tech where they can pretend to be cowboys, and not only pretend to be cowboys, badass cowboys that get the girl, drink the bourbon, and get the gundawn the bad guy. These weak saplings couldn't fight the way out of a wet paper bag, but they can. They

can all be Clint Eastwood for the weekend. You know, And what is that if not that immersive virtual you know, not virtual reality, but that immersive experience of giving yourself. It's it's beyond the fan convention, isn't it is? It just turns into No.

Tennessee will become Harry potter Land. I'm joking, but uh, but yeah, no, I did do an analysis of Westworld, and I watched it and k Jonathan Nolan was the writer and then JJ Abrams directed it, and Jonathan Nolan being Christopher Nolan's brother, and so you're gonna get a lot of the Nolan themes of the Maze, which always comes up in Christopher Nolan stuff. Uh, and so there were interesting elements to it. But I I was it was underwhelming for me. I expected more. I thought it

would would give us more than kind of. I mean, they did diverge a little bit and introduce, you know, new ideas building on the Crichton story, but I just I felt like it's still it just lacked something, something was missing. It was it was a little too predictable. Everybody kind of everybody that I know that watched it kind of figured it out, like right away what was going on, what the what the plot was. I don't

mean that it's a synthetic city. Everybody knows that, but I mean the inter story plot of why the characters are doing what they're doing. But it does have the very point that you're talking about. It's the prediction of the elites in this in this story, immersing themselves in the synthetic world because they're the only ones that have the money, you know, to be involved in this, and

then the synthetic world kind of breaks out. It's encasement, and you know, that's what we're kind of left with is you know, where are we going to go next next season? You know, are the the bots actually going to like take over the world? You know, this kind of stuff.

of manhood or womanhood in the real world. You know, it's almost like, yeah, you get screen superhero, but you can't be a superhero. You can't as a father, as a husband, or as a wife or mother or grandmother or son or you know, you can't attee in that in your real life. You know, you've got to be pathetic and weak and the rest of it. And you you know, be told what to do and to go along, to get along, and is there any connection between that?

And then you look at people like Bill Gates and now look again, not every I'm not saying everybody's got to be a particular type of individual in body or in mind, but for the purposes of our discussion, I'm just looking at parallels. And you look at someone like that who's physically deeply unimpressive, and then you look you think of Wizard of Oz and the story there and what's revealed to us in the end, you know, behind

the curtain. And then you think of someone like David Rockefeller, for example, who he recently bought it, didn't he And that's sort of like, you know, what a decrepit old demon? I mean, you know, what could could a man aspire to be anything less? If you see what I mean? And so I'm just wondering about interesting parallels there, about the messages that were handled about what it is to be a man, what it is to be a woman, you know, regardless of your sexuality and the future.

realize that he's not a guy. So a little bit of a spoiler there, But the message there, of course is another one of the themes that we've seen throughout many of these transhumanist films is that the bots are humanized and the humans are roboticized. So humans are robotic,

they're totally driven by evil. Oh but don't worry, because there's a bright future of the bots, and they are compassionate and strong and virtuous and all of these all these selling point it's basically of transhumanism that you see in movies like AI. You know, where the Haley Joel osmic character is has the empathy and the humane characteristics, and then the humans in that movie are for the most part all shit has totally and that's by design too.

I think that's that's all part of the inversion, really is what this is all about that we've been talking about with you know, the virchant Russell's quotes and whatnot. So yes, I think you're onto something there with the idea of I think you're right. So what I said earlier, you could you could argue that women are being masculinized, men are being feminized in the real world. But as long as a big portion of your time is and attention and focus and energy is directed to the synthetic world,

then the elites are happy. I think that's the main point.

seem to be two divergent trends. One is people kind of waking up to some of these ideas that we're talking about, and other people getting further and further lost in this kind of like matrix. So how do you read that situation? What do you feel negative about, what do you feel positive about?

You know. I think that Darth Vader even says, you know, don't put too much trust in this, this technological terror that you've created, because human humanity in the world, the universe is more than matter and techne their their spirit, which I think has precedence over those things. And so yes, even though they might master mind control and these different tactics, the good the good takeaway from Logan's run and from Zardas is that the elite systems usually collapse in on themselves.

And you can see that in all the attempts throughout history at trying to create these unrealistic utopias, is that they eventually collapse. And so yeah, you might have to go through a period of of of the dystopia, you know, the dark period, but they they don't work because of the fact that they're self destructive. And so anytime you get these systems that turn on humanity itself, and the problem for the elite is that they too are humans. It's a self destructive cancer, and cancer eats away at

all of them. You know, they might put all these they might attack all of us with this stuff, but you can't totally immunize yourself from it. And that's what we saw that the elites trying to do in both Zardas and Logan's Run to an extent, but it doesn't work. So I think that because it's built on a faulty anthropology and a faulty worldview, ultimately it's not going to work.

whatever it happens to be. The idea it's this sort of magical process that's going to allow us to side step difficult problems, you know, a bit like going to adulthood from childhood, having to go through teenage years when you have to kind of learn.

I mean, it might cause some havoc, it might cause destabilization and wreck a lot of things for a long time, but it's just so fundamentally out of a chord with the actual world in which we live that you know, you can only sustain synthetic systems for so long before they have the internal problem of breakdown. And I don't think that they'll ever overcome that. It doesn't matter how many bots that you create to program other bots, you're never going to escape the natural world.

work on a target, let's just say, or Walmart. They're going to turn up on Monday morning dressed is astro man, and they're they're going to walk in and somebody's going to go, oh, hi, Jim, you know, what's with the what's with the tights and the cape and the and the goggles? You know, I am astro man. Yeah, well Jim, that's fine, do that in your lunch, char but could you get to your station please? No astro man. You know when it gets hauled away in the you know,

to the rubber room. So but I just think that that's an increasing trend that we're going to say it's going to be an interesting ride because it works both ways. Is and it you know, you get stuff, real world stuff, it gets turned into movie, you know, it becomes a suit called reality TV. I think is a brilliant manifestation

of this. It's kind of like I'm going to tune into the TV for some real reality because the reality, the real reality I've got I don't really want so let's really really get the real thing on the TV exactly.

mismatched with the real world. It just collapses. And the the the Jacques Frescoes and the Saint Simon's uh, and the Zeitgeis the types that you're talking about who are really kind of at the core of the this this ideology. Uh, it's just it's not going to work. I mean, and again it's because they arrogantly think they understand everything about humanity because they've mastered some technological thing. This is not true. I mean, humans are humans, and human persons transcend nature.

I believe that's part of the theology that I adhere to, and so that informs my worldview, and that's the vantage point from which I think I can accurately critique and argue against the idea that you can engineer Man into being something other than Man.

they offer it so cheap. But so you can get the book there and I do sign the copies, and then you can also get access to my archives where I have a lot of interviews and talks and podcasts and lectures. The second half that you pay for. The first half's always free. And then you know probably a thousand or so posts and articles at the website, big vast archive that you can dive into that's all free. And yeah, we just shot seventeen episodes, very high production quality.

I'm very impressed with what the production company had there and how it all turned out. It all went well, went pretty smooth, And it'll be basically a Cisco and Ebert style show of me and Jay Weiedner of Kubrick's Odyssey in Room two thirty seven Fame, going back and forth kind of debating and critiquing and analyzing film from the kind of vanished point that you that you and I've been doing it right. So not the bland ciscl Ebert,

you know this is good, this is bad. They were good actors, they were bad actors of view from the

symbology side of things. And that's why I think it's going to be really high quality, not like anything else that's out there in TV and media, and I think it'll be a couple of months before it's done in the post production, and then it'll be available on streaming on the Gaya network Guya TV, which is available on Amazon Prime, Roku, Apple TV, and in the US at least it will also be available on a lot of cable and satellite so through like Exfinity Cable in the

US and things like that. So yeah, I'm looking forward to that. I think it's going to do really well, and if it does good ratings wise, they will order up another twenty two episodes.