THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS: ALICE’S MAGIC, MADNESS & METAPHYSICS -JAY DYER (HALF)

The the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the do what's up? Welcome everybody. If you're wondering why do I have a Weezer shirt on? Is it because I'm some massive nineties gen X man? No? Is it because I'm a super dipper

Weezer fan. Weezer was my first concert I ever attended, and so found this T shirt and I thought it would be funny to wear for the theme of our coming gen X stream. Jamie and I are going to be doing our next stream together. It's been a little bit, it's been a minute, but our next dream is gen X altcom films. And you can guess what I mean by altcom films. That's before sun rise, sunset, Richard Link later reality bites. Uh, there's a mad love. There's a whole

spate of these, and they excellently capture. You could say the gen X mindset. Why does that matter? While we're gonna be ruled by our new overlords, the boomer overlord, dumb is It's time is ticking. We will only be ruled by the boomer overlords. And I don't mean to be Macabaret, I don't mean to be dark. I'm being real factual. If we're not going to be ruled over by the boomer is much longer, we'll be ruled by the gen xers. Thus we must know the mindset of our future

overlords. How do they think? What are their cultural symbols, what are their archetypes, what's their language? What's the spirit of gen X. We're going to get to that now. We did a couple streams leading up to this. We did Boomer to gen X Behold our MTV Generational Overlords. That was a fun stream, a lot of nineties culture going on there. And then I did another strand that didn't give very many views oddly enough, which I thought was fun and should have got more views, where I took many

of you to them all. We went to Blockbuster together. We discussed events in the nineties, top ten nineties movies that I thought were fun. That was all anticipation, in anticipation for our upcoming stream of the gen X altcoms. And I'm not even remembering all the movies at this moment, Mad Love Reality by Ites before Sunrise, but you're gonna notice when Oh, Empire Records, there's another one with Uma Thurman and Beautiful Girls. That's another relevant one

which had some odd themes in it. All of that will be discussed in our coming stream. It's gonna be fun. So I'm wearing a nineties ish shirt. Now that's pretty much. I mean, Weezer was popular into the two thousands, but anyway, so that's why I'm wearing a Weezer shirt.

So we're gonna be talking about some fascinating stuff that I haven't talked about in many years tonight because I was looking forward to getting back into this book because, as you guys know, in twenty when did we do this old video? Almost five years ago? June second, twenty nineteen, which is almost

six years a right, so or five years excuse me. So we're gonna be playing a little bit of that to brush up on Alice in Wonderland, and then we're gonna go deeper into Part two Through the Looking Glass and what Alice saw there, the occult even perhaps geopolitical, societal, social revolution, all of that tonight in this deep dive that I think will surprise many of you. I think many of you probably don't know what all crazy stuff is

going on in this novel. It's pretty fascinating book. I have to admit I'm pretty interested in it. Yes, I'm aware of all of the scandalous things surrounding the figure of Lewis Carroll. We'll mention that here in the second Probably you've all heard of this, but it was believed that he might have

been a creeper. I don't know that it was ever definitively established, but he did seem to prefer taking a lot of photos of kids, which is odd to say the least, so that definitely puts him in a suspect camp. And beyond that, it turns out there actually were some esoteric interests that he had that few people have discussed. Few have actually gone into this, and those of us in the conspiracy world actually did talk about it many years ago. And it turns out a guy wrote a book. Where's this guy's

book? Where is this guy's book? Jake Fiore? When did he write this. Let's see when this was So this was only a couple of years ago. So a couple of years ago, guy writes a book delving into what many of us in the conspiracy world already knew about and had discussed. I don't have this guy's book, but we're going to look at what the article says about his book, exploring Lewis Carroll's interest in the occult. We're also going to look at Isaac's overview. Our buddy Ozzie Bishop wrote an article

many years ago as well. I think in twenty sixteen, so already eight years ago. For Isaac's article. Even the Guardian discussed this. What a couple of years ago, Let's see when Yeah, three years ago the Guardian discussed it as well, So this is becoming a little more well known. But Scooter, our buddy, Scooter had a genius idea which was to take the matt a Monkey Song and run it through an a I got a bot guy and the AI got bought guy collaborator who collaborated with us. He spit

out this new masterpiece. You gotta hear this, This is this made me laugh until I cried. You bud off in that tree what you doing up there? Why you scared? Why you running from them? Red? Bad? You ran? Mom? Then true and from me man till the poky like Bamail wons with doubleanatas between the trees hanging down upside down. That's fine. A tell a monkey what you doing to me? Till a dell a monkey till a macky m then till the monkey, what's your dude to me?

Sorry? I was feeling it, ya, I was moved. I was moved by the spirit of my evolutionary impulses. Bro. I was just sitting there evolving. I'm listening to that song and I'm evolving, and I'm like, damn, up in that tree, what you doing up there? Why are you scared? Why you running? Anyway, you get the idea of everybody in the chest, like, damn, bro, maybe a I is all right exactly. Yeah, that was too funny not to share. Nothing to do with today's discussion, but man, that made me laugh so

hard when he sent me that. By the way, you can follow me over here on X. My ex is growing well. Happy to say we're almost up there, getting up into close to We're ten thousand away from seventy five. If you don't follow me on X there's the link. You can follow me there as well. All right, let's get into this a little

bit about Lewis. As we said, Lewis Carroll, author of both of the books that we're discussing tonight, and this is just a little bit of an overview which will help us to understand the themes present in his text, which is a very it's a very complex text, I have to say. And you don't think of it as that because it's a children's book, right, So we're like, oh, it's a children's book. You know, it's just a bunch of nonsense. It's a bunch of nonsensical nonsense in Wonderland

hahaha, nursery rhymes, it's goofy, animals are talking. No, I don't know. It's a lot more going on, to the extent that we're gonna have to like get into the occult stuff. It's crazy. Charles Litwood Dutch Dodgson Lutwidge Dodgson born in eighteen thirty two to eighteen ninety eight, known as Lewis Carroll, English author, poet, mathematician. Keep that in mind.

Mathematics will play an interesting key role in these texts. He's most known for Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass, as well as his facility with wordplay. Wordplay's gonna be an important element as well as we get into the madness. As you know, I titled this the metaphysics madness, and what was the other end I've already forgotten my ms. I don't even know

what I titled this. Alice's magic, madness and metaphysics. There are logic puzzles, so he's gonna deal with logic fantasy and it doesn't say this but metaphysics. He also wrote the poem Jabberwakie and The Hunting of the Snark. They are classics in the genre what are called what's called nonsense genre nonsense literature. Carol came from a high Church Anglican family and developed a long standing relationship with Christ Church, Oxford, where he lived for most of his life as

a scholar. Alice Liddell, the daughter of Henry Liddell, was the Dean of Christ Church, and many identify her as the original inspiration for Alice in Alis in Winterland. Now here's the first fascinating element that apparently has recently come forward that many did not know, and that is that the Alice Liddell here. If you know your esoteric history, you might be thinking, hey, wait a minute, Liddell Samuel Liddell Mathers of Golden Dawn Fame. Yes.

Turns out, according to Jake Fuor, the author of the recent book about Carol, Fiora, who wrote on his take on Carol's work, runs a shop called Alice the looking Glass in Lenda's West End, suggests that Carroll's fantastical stories come from a darker place. Fiora explained to the Observer that Carol had a definite interest in the esoteric, elaborating that he has a catalog of his possessions, including the books of his library, and in it he has a

lot of books on the supernatural. Exploring Carol's involvement with the occult, Fiora found a host of interesting connections to the supernatural in Carol's social circles as well. Many believe Carol drew inspiration from Alice from a member of the Liddell family.

Yet another member of the Liddell family, Samuel Liddell Mathers, a relative of the young girl who inspired Alice, was one of the creators of the secret society known as the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and the Golden Down, of course, produced figures such as Bram Stoker, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, and Alistair Crowley. The Try the twentieth century Golden don was known for practicing metaphysics, ritual magic, pernelal activity, and so forth, and the

authors that we mentioned. Beyond digging into the Golden Dawn, Fere also found famous use of the wordplay in a new light. Fuor points out that Carol utilizes acroustics, which come from Hebrew mysticism in the Biblical like how the Biblical writers in the Old Testament sometimes utilize acrostics. While Carroll himself did not practice

magic, his interests and interactions veered towards these puzzling, unexplainable things. Carol was known to be fascinated in telepathy and even joined the Society for Psychical Research, the SPR which was which included people like Carl Agad Junger, call Young and Freud. So you're gonna start noticing, Hey, wait a minute, there might be some overlaps between Jungi and archetype philosophy and the Gnostic elements in young and what we see today in Alice. Yeah, the golding on is

a little weird. What do people what to do with Saint Jay? Oh, you're talking about because of my hello Hello, Hey? Is that a Rihanna song? Yo? That's my nod to Rihanna. Rihanna. That's my little nod to Rihanna. Hell Ala ella ella on the Miama. That's my word play, Yo. That's the word play for the day. Al Ala. By the way, we will we will be going into interesting elements of wordplay. Idiocy. Oh, Beyonce, Now hold up my Ownbrella Beyonce.

Halo' is Beyonce. That's right, Umbrella, I know that's Rihanna. Don't try to check me on, umbrella. I happen to know my Rihanna songs. Excuse me, excuse me. Talk to the lesbian glasses. Talk to the lesbian glasses because I ain't hearing y'all right now, I ain't even hearing y'all right now. Jay could kill it at karaoke, bro, I have

killed it at karaoke. You can ask the people who invited me to their karaoke parties, like my buddy Mark, he said, quote and I quote Jay killed it at karaoke at our party under my anyway, I forgot to list down these examples that we Jamie and I were talking about these in the car, and I meant to write them down. I forgot, and now I got to think of and what were the Okay, so we got a couple examples of stupid schizo word concept fallacies that you're all gonna find very practical.

You said, wait a minute, how could a schizo word concept fallacy be practical? Because you will notice patterns When I was in the bathtub last night before our legendary laughable livestream last night. Now I'm now I'm using alliteration legend legendary laughable livestream. As I was lollygagg in the bathtub, our legendary laughable livestream led to me thinking of interesting patterns pattern recognition, which by the way, plays a key role in this novel. But what kind of recognition

I'm talking about? I noticed a pattern that the move that people make when they make word concept fallacies is the same move that people make in dialectical mistakes in philosophy, and it's the same move that schizophrenics make. Yes, you heard me, right, And it's the same move that will be explored in this novel. And it's the same move that's made by idiot conspiracy theorists who are not total skitzos, but have the reasoning skills and levels of total skitzos.

Jamie, come over, say, when we were talking in the car, we gave the Jordan Maxwell example of birth son and son. What was another one? I can't even remember them now, Oh, Solomon is the classic, Lion is a classic, all right, I got that down. When they're one more good example anyway, I guess it was. Oh, well, that's in the novel. I got that right now. Okay, thank you your excuse. So now we're not just talking about noticing bad patterns.

I'm talking about noticing a pattern of the same move that's made in Schizo, stream of consciousness, heretics and word concept fallacies, conspiracy theorist idiots and the word play in this novel, and dialectical philosophy. And I was thinking about the example that Lenin trying to remember Lenin's example Lennon the Flow, the Revolutionary Lennon has this example of like either oars. I can't remember that one. Anyway, You'll see the point when we get to it in a minute.

So right now we're talking about the OCULTSAF so keep that in mind. Maybe I'll even break out the whiteboard if you're good. Anyway, So this book is called through a looking Glass Darkly, and that's of course a reference to Saint Paul in the Corinthians, where he says we see through a glass darkly in this world we see John, not John Lennon. Bro Well, John Lennon, although John Lennon does play into this today, mate, we

will see. Actually John Lennon does play into today's discussion because as I was reading through this, Alice has exchanged with the Walrus. I said, wait a minute, that sounds like the Beatles. It turns out John Lennon wrote that song on Sergeant Pepper's from that chapter. I'm like, oh, he's talking about Alice in one moment. I never do that until now anyway.

But through a Glass Darkly in the tax Paul's talking about that. In this life we don't really see everything clearly, whether the spiritual reality is going on around us, what the ultimate purpose of evil events are, and also we don't see fully what heaven will be like in this life hence we see through a glass darkly, and thus the title of this guy's book playing on through the looking Glass. And I think there's a section in the first one where

Alice looks through a looking glass two. But anyway, it's been five years since I read the other one. Umo Google Choo, Mate, Umulus living to the populatis, going to kill us mate. So there is that connection, so we can establish then there is this occult element here. How deep into this it's unclear. We don't know exactly how far Carol had studied this stuff. We don't know that he was absolutely in the Golden Dawn, but

he's definitely hanging out with him talking to the Golden Dawn people. By the way, as you guys know, also what Charles Williams of the Inklings was also in the Golden Dawn. So you will see some interesting patterns because when we talk about the neoplatonic elements, which apparently Lewis Carroll did have a fascination

with neoplatonism, which makes sense because of his mathematical interests. So people that have this bent towards mathematics often find neoplatonism appealing because neoplatonism gives a very high regard to mathematics, reality being in some sense fundamentally math to Pythagorean tradition in the Pythagorean of mystical numbers. Mystical mathematics influences the Neoplatonists for sure. And so this is over the Guardian. There's another treatment, and let's see what

the Guardian says about this Jake Fewer guy. He repeats his statement about the esoteric stuff. I just want to see if there's any other elements in this that weren't in the other article. So this is talking about the artwork by Tanil. I do like the artwork, by the way, it's pretty awesome. This is talking about it's all the same stuff. So basically, the first article was some kind of sus website and all the same information is in

the Guardian article. So if you are some sort of a idiot who thinks that the Guardian is like more trustworthy than other websites, there you go. So let's go back to his biography a little bit, and then we'll go to the Isaac's article and then we'll get into the first one, and then I will give my analysis of the second one. This is a half and half by the way, if you want to watch the full breakdown the rest

of this this is, I mean it's a full novel. I mean it's like it's not long, but it's two hundred page book, right, So it's enough for a part one and a part two. So Carol, as we said, is interested in Anglican theology, and this I think would suggest the predetermination stuff. So there's a very strong Predestinarian influence in the novel, and most people don't know that either. And in the world of Anglicanism, there's always been a kind of an off and on love hate relationship with Calvinism.

And not all Anglicans have been Calvinists or Augustinians in a strict sense, but many of them have been so. And that doesn't really apply to either Low Church or High Church. You can have Calvinist minded Augustinian minded High Church Anglicans and Calvinist Augustinian minded Low Church Anglicans as well. So as a High Church Anglican, he apparently was influenced by this. And the other element is

the mathematics. So the mathematical depth that he got into also led him, I think, to believe in a form of kind of determinism because in the book we have the idea that Alice's choices and her steps on the the matre so to speak of the checkerboard or the chessboard that she steps onto, and all of Wonderland is laid out like a chessboard. All of the areas of

Wonderland are squares on a giant chessboard. And so game theory plays into this because part of the point of the book is is Alice a pawn the queen actually refers to her as a pawn, or is she in some way self actualized with free will? And this notion of self actualization comes into play too

because he's in the circles with Carl Young. I don't know if he had interaction with Carl Young, but he's a member of the Society for Psychical Research like kral Young, and I think there's definitely some esoteric, occult and gnostic hermetic elements in this. Apparently he was interested in not just Golden Dawn philosophy, but rosa Crucian thought in neo Platonism. Now that's also not surprising because many of the Anglican so called ministers at this time, and going back to

the seventeen hundreds. Shocker, many many many of them were interested in alchemy, her meticism, and the occult. Many of them were also freemasons. Many of them were also British intelligence. Shocker. Right, but yes, and thank you for that, slow boy. I appreciate you guys supporting the stream there in the chat. If you want to support the stream, you can do so by superchats, and superchats are done over here via stream labs, very easy. You just click that link in the chat right there.

At any point and periodically through discussion, I'll answer the questions. Now it says, so he was ordained, We're going to skip the in the some of this was ski past some of this. In the Church of England, he becomes a deacon. He's never ordained to a priest. He was into

John Henry Newman, as you know, who would become Cardinal Newman. The tractarian movement of High Churching Anglicans move more and more towards Roman Catholicism, and eventually Newman converts and he writes his famous book, which influences quite a few people to also convert. Still, it's even still cited amongst the trad cats and the Novasorio. People that want to try to convert Protestants and Anglicans will often, you know, give out Cardinal Newman's book. I remember reading Newman's

books back in the day when I was Protestant looking into Catholicism. But apparently he also was influenced by this, So he had read allegorical treatments when he was younger, like Pilgrim's Progress, and that's going to influence his production. I would assume of Alice right went to Oxford. Did he major in math or theology? I'm not sure. See he was his friend was father's or his father was friends with the famous Anglican canon lawyer Edward Pusey. Pusey was

a high Church, famous high high Church Anglican. Now this is the reason we're going into this is that, and I don't know if this is going to talk about it. But he had a couple of health issues and developed a stammer and a bad cough at some point. And the Dodo in the first part is a caricature of himself, it says, but this doesn't mention and this is going to be interesting for his social connection to for the geopolitical

stuff. But by the way, it wasn't George McDonald. Also, I think in The Golden Dawn we'll see here in a second, but my book that I have has a scholarly introduction. Of course, it's always good, I think, to get some of these texts that are not just the pure text, but kind of the scholarly texts, because they'll give you the background and introduction that talks about him having multiple personality disorder. And I had not

encountered that before. However, this does make sense though, when we remember that Alice has multiple personalities. If you don't remember, in the first novel, there's a series, there's a point where she gets to Wonderland and she starts interacting with herself and she has multiple selves, and they're dialoguing about well, what is it to be a self? By the way, I forgot to mention, they might be Giants also have many references to this novel.

Both of these because they might be Giants have that song it self called Nowhere Pretty Sure that is a reference to Alice in Wonderland. And there was another something else came up in Through the Looking Glass that was a they might be Giants reference, but I forgot what it was. Anyway, The Matrix as well. Obviously, probably the Matrix is the most famous play on Alice in Winnerlane with the White Rabbit and old neo. Can you follow the white Rabbit?

Whoa? Dude? Whoa? So we'll look at that here in a second. But this does not, as as far as I can tell, mentioned that he apparently had split personality. Now, it wasn't diagnosed yet, but presumably if he's in the circles of Young and Freud, maybe they noticed this. I'm not sure, but that might be why Alice has alters and multiple personalities in the first novel. Let's see if there's anything on this otherwise. I forgot the look otherwise because it came up in this article and I

couldn't. I was surprised. Many people thought, oh, he was on drugs when he did this. Here's an article on it. I don't know what's website. This is somebody's paper. Lewis Carroll's dual personality shown in looking Glass. Yeah, but it's not just in looking Glass because it comes up in the first one where she's debating with herself as to what a self is. Y'all know that they might be Giants' song Self called nowhere. Mm hmm. Interesting, So now it may not be the case. Maybe a theory.

Let me see if I can find where the introductory Yes, they was saying that. H m hm hm m m. No, Now I forgot where it's. I know I read it. It's in here, Maybe it's Maybe it's in the introduction to the first party. Yeah, okay, there's a long essay here at the beginning. Anyway, I read it somewhere, I promise you. So let's see. Uh, if George McDonald also was a Golden Dawn person, I'm pretty sure he was. Wait, let's just skip past this. Maybe not Golden Dawn. Hm, yes, no,

Charles Williams is Golden Dawn. McDonald wrote the Golden Key. Okay, maybe George McDonald wasn't Inkling, is that right? But not Golden Dawn is that right? Scottish Minister father of the Inklings dedicated the legacy of bull thing and in Christianity to George McDonald Because so, maybe George McDonald wasn't a Golden don

guy, but he was friends with anyway. The reason we wanted to go to this part of his connections was that in the terrim between his publishing writings, Dodgson began to move in the pre Raphaelite social circle he first met John Ruskin. Interesting, now, if you know you're Quigley and your Milliner Rhodes Roth circles, you know that John Ruskin is a key player in this as one of the early formulators of the philosophy of a world federation that would be

used by the Milner circles. So the Milner circles didn't just come up with this out of nowhere. They were very influenced by and thought that this guy was kind of one of their brains. Philosopher, art historian, art critic, polymath. He wrote on geology, architecture, myth ornithology, literature, education, botany, So a sort of a Renaissance type of guy. He also was a seemed to have a problem with spanking his monkey. Literally he

had some sort of weird compulsive problem with this. I remember reading. But this isn't even talking about the fact that he wrote this thing about world federation. And so he influenced the Fabians to come up with this. All right, where is it? This is taken forever, So let me let me show you the book I'm talking about. John Ruskin world government or world federation, profit of the human built world exactly, Roads and Ruskin. Yeah, here you go, Cecil Rose, John Ruskin and the worldview goal of a

Eurocentric world government twenty fifteen, Brandon Howse. So yeah, there you go. The British Empire would be this seed form of creating eventually the European Union and then a World Union. And that's of course what happened. So if you go deep into the quickly raw Child Roads stuff, you'll come across John Ruskin. So back to so we know that he's in these circles, right, So he's hanging out with these pretty high level people. He's close to

a lot of high level elites. He has these health problems he appears to have, although it wasn't really diagnosed at the time, it appears to be MPD D I D. His literature has often been given a Freudian interpretation, and then Alice's descent is a descent into the dark world of the subconscious. That's corrected as partly that the overwhelming commercial success of the books spread around the

world, he was inundated with fan mail, sometimes unwanted attention. Supposedly Queen Victoria herself enjoyed the books that she commanded that he dedicated his next book to her. He denied this story and commented that it's false. Now I think that's relevant though, because not that the story is true, but I actually think he is criticizing the nobility system to a degree. I think that's what Humpty Dumpty represents. So and we'll see that here in a minute where I

come up with that. But let's go over to Isaac's text now that we've gotten the basics of his background. And by the way, I forgot to mention that so here this is well known, right, This is just mainline Israeli news gamatria of the alphabet acrosstic of proverbs. Now, before people lose their mind and spur out, okay, there is an element of biblical gematria.

It's not what these idiots on the internet do where they go schizo and think that everything is not numbers and you can cross reference everything into these random gamatria. How you're going to win on a betting on the Cubs game and when the Illuminati is going to blow up the planet. Okay, that's all

stupid shit, right, that's that's dumb. But both Hebrew and Greek in the ancient world because they didn't have the separate Arabic numeral system like we do of the Arabic number one, two, three, right, they utilize their letters as also numbers. Okay, So Gamatria is not some massive mysterious thing.

If you look at when John is writing in the Apocalypse and he writes sixty sixty six, if you read Ken Gentry's book Before Jerusalem Fell, or if you read Days of Vengeance by David Chilton, it's very obvious that John is also writing in a code that other readers would be able to recognize that

the Roman Pagans who would see his letter from pat most wouldn't understand. So if John wanted to say that Nero is a beast, is an Antichrist, and I think that sixty sixty six is talking about Nero, He's going to write it in a code. And one way that we know that that is true is that in the Book of Revelation there are actual textual variants. One of the textual variant has six one six, and the other textual variants says sixty sixty six. And the interesting thing is that when you put Nero's name

into gematria. This is a legitimate loot use of gamatra. It still whether it's sixty one six or whether it's six sixty six, it still comes out to neuron kusar in r n QSR neuro Caesar. Okay, so that's legit gamatria. But also the Hebrew versions of some of the Psalms and proverbs, and I think, naeum, let me say, I listed some of these are our acroustic poems. So let me see it. Where did I write

this down? I don't know wherever I go, I don't see, no one knows, but I can remember they were Psalm one nineteen, Psalm twenty three or twenty four is an acroustic. Sections of proverbs nahum lamentations is an acrostic, and nahem one in one or two is an acrostic. So what is this? Well, the Proverbs thirty one example is in the Hebrews seven hundred and seventy seven words, and it says that Proverbs thirty one, ten or thirteen is one of the thirteen alphabetical across poems in the Bible. So

in the Hebrew Bible there's thirteen of these. Each line begins with a successive letter in the Hebrew alphabet. This is called the Eshet Hayl or the woman of Valor. So in other words, the famous proverbs thirty one woman that everybody's heard of, right, this is actually a Hebrew acrostic poem and it utilizes the alphabet. Now this woman in her article, she says, if you calculate this, every first word of each verse, as well as the

name of God is thirty. In verse thirty, the calculation of eighty six characters corresponds with eighty six in the value of the name of el Cheim. And again this is not like outlandish crazy stuff. Okay, absolutely makes perfect sense that when the Hebrew texts were being written and compiled, they would be putting these kinds of symbols into it. So, and this doesn't mean that Kabbalism is true. It doesn't mean it just means that the Hebrew text is

inspired, the Bible's inspired. Okay. And yes, I mean, ultimately we would say the septuagent. But before there was a Septuo agent, there was some proto Hebrew text. And not every Hebrew text is necessarily bad. We don't necessarily hate the masoretic text. Matthew's Gospel cites what would become the or what was the proto masoretic text. So it's not that big of a deal, and it's not even a big deal that there are elements of these

interesting symbolic things. Now, this is not Bible code crap. You can't put codes into a program that tells you Bible code. That's a bunch of scam nonsense. It's not a magical device to predict the future, is what I'm saying. But there are these fascinating symbolisms or symbolic correspondences, poems,

numbers that does exist in the text. So hopefully this we can be level headed about this, because as soon as people hear this, they go nuts with it, and you've got these idiots that Jim Bob's always debating with. Okay, So Kabbalism is not identical to this. You understand Cobbalists do this stuff, but this is not the same thing as Cabbalism. Okay. So if you're an Orthodox Christian, you've inherited these texts, and whether they're in

the Hebrew or the Greek, both utilize the principle of gamatri. The Greece did this too, because the Greece didn't have Arabic numberles alpha beta, gamma one two three delta. For that's how they did their numery. That's all it is. It's not a superstitious device for predicting the future or getting magical knowledge, even though some people use it for that anyway. So she's talking

about some other of these examples. She says, Proverbs thirty one declares itself to be the Proverbs of kingdom Yule, who says that it was an oracle that was taught to him by his mother. Right, so it's the Proverbs thirty one woman. No other mention is made of him, however in the Tanakh, but Jewish legend identifies him as another name for Solomon. And so he was getting this advice from Batshiva. What is the genesis order? It

is the letter ordering of Genesis one and two. So bet is one, I let bet gimmel shin dallet right, this is one, two, three, four, five, six and until rash, which is twenty numbered. This way, the alphabet has a sum total two hundred and seventeen. That's seven times thirty one, which is a key number to the seven Palaces. I'm assuming that's talking about the seven the sections of Proverbs where he's talking about wisdom and her pillars, the pillars of Wisdom one up. Chimatria is mainly

used for biblical gamatria, and it's a reverse version of biblical gamatria. And so anyway, she talks about how there's a parallel between the ordering of Genesis one and two and what is in Proverbs. So now the woman of Proverbs thirty one in the literal sense is a literal smart woman, and our review we would also be the Church, right, the Church, allegorically speaking, is the true Proverbs thirty one woman. And so she would be an image

of course of both the the Tokos and the Church. So it's not surprising that if this parallel, that this woman is theorizing, it's not surprising that it would be. There would be a parallel between the creation order in Genesis one, which is where Eve comes from, and the new creation of the new Eve Mary, who would be the ultimate Proverbs thirty one woman. Anyway, So I know we're not here to talk about all that stuff, but

I'm just pointing out that this is not that far fetched. This is one example of symbolic correspondences in the Hebrew Bible that would have influenced and did influence a bunch of the literary circles that he's in. And I can again that's not even in question because if you remember, we covered this in the the CS. Lewis Space Trilogy, we did a whole deep dive into how J.

R. R. Tolkien is the hero of the Space trilogy. So Professor Ransom, right, that's Tolkien in code in Lewis's book, and in the first Space Trilogy at the end there's a letter from the professor who's Tolkien, and he explains that he was reading medieval texts and he came across this principle of neoplatonism that would undergird the philosophere. So again, the Inklings were

influenced by neoplatonism. Lewis Carroll's influenced by neoplatonism, and neoplatonism has a lot of parallels with what we're talking about here with Hebrew acrostic mysticism and what would later become quote Cobblism. Now, let's talk about that Cabbalistic side of it, because the Hermatic Order of Golden Dawn was influenced by Cabbalism, but what they sought to do was to as the Rosicrucians prior to them had saw it to do, was to remove Cobbalism from anything to do with Hebrew stuff.

Now, I'm not saying that Hebrew Cobbolism is good or correct, or that the Golden Dawn's Hebrew Cabalism is good to correct. And I'm gonna surprise you here, but guess what. Cobblism is Ultimately just a form of gnosticism and Neoplatonism. So a lot of people are mysti film Ohism, WHOA right, No, it's just gnosticism and neoplatonism. If you read the premier scholar of this, Gersham Sholom, I've read several of his books. He points out

that they're just borrowing from ancient gnostic systems and from Neoplatonism. And there's not one Kabbala, there's many of them. So between different rabbis, there's different Kabbalistic systems. There's Nachmanides, there's Isaac Luria, right, there's Cosaba on all these different characters, some of these characters, like are fictional characters. Anyway, Each philosopher, mystic person might even make up his own Kabbalistic system.

And so for these people, and particularly would say Croley, when they borrowed from Kabbalism, what they wanted to do was create their own pagan version of kabala. I think I think Croley even says something like that somewhere. If you read, for example, Crole's in the Circles of the Golden Dog with I think Israel Regardie, Right, Regardi writes a whole book where he's like, I'm going to do the true pure Cabbala, right, So basically

they're all just trying to come up with their own mystical magical systems. They're all tweaking it, they're doing cafeteria style stuff, but really it's borrowing from the structure of Neoplatonism. That's why there's parallels, by the way, between the Kabbalistic tree and the cepharrot and the structure of Neoplatonism. And it's not one to one because none of this stuff is like one to one. It's

all just kind of evolving systems. But the underlying structure is stuff that we find in Pythagoras, the Orphic Mysteries, Plato, Neoplatonism, Plotinus, and the Porphyrian Tree. So hopefully, by the way, what I'm trying to do in part of this part is to demystify this stuff. People are mystical. Well it's mystified. It's not even that mystical. I'm sorry, hate the brigand it's not that mystical. Uh So let's look at one example.

So just look at the Porphyrian tree. Whoa, the Porphyrian tree. It's like the gob No and medieval Western thinkers use the same types of structures Boetheism, whoa beweit used Orthodox saint he's a Gobbalist, who love? And then you get Roman Catholic, Western minded people like Raymond Lowll uses the same type of structure. Whoa, They're just using pre existing structures, okay, and the structure are borrowed also from Aristotle. It's the categories. So different philosophers

are coming up with ways to try to structure reality. So notice, as we point out in the Porphyrian Tree, Porphyry suggests in his tree and his introduction to isogogy that he's using Aristotles categories. Ariostotle's categories of classification were later adopted into tree like diagrams with two way divisions which indicate genus and species or genus in differentia. This was a logical process that continues until you get down to the low species. Okay. So you can see that this structure is

utilized by all kinds of philosophers throughout the ancient and medieval world. And there's nothing necessarily inherently satanic about the structure. It's just aristotles categories, okay. And these continued to be taught and used up into the Middle Ages in all kinds of medieval metaphysics textbooks and logic textbooks and even science textbooks, because look, notice what is this. Oh well, the porfirent tree here just happens

to be Aristotle's genus right, substance species all the way down. So it's just these are okay, because they're used throughout the ancient world. So if a Satanist uses this, it doesn't make it a Satanic structure. That's dumb. So there you go, whoa de mystified. Now. So the Harmatic Order of Golden Dawn, as we said, it was an occult order that began in the late nineteenth and twentieth century, is a magical order active in

Great Britain and focus it's practices on theurgy and spiritual development. Hey, Jimmie, Jamie, can you start with that noise? Thanks The contemporary traditions such as Wicca and Thalema are inspired by Golden Dawn. Now fe limas where you'll get this is more of a focused Crowleian thing, right, and it springs

out of Golden Dawn. So Crowley's in the Golandawn for a while, he doesn't stay with the Golden Dawn. Because one thing you'll notice is that a lot of these people, the so called magic people, what they do is they learn the structures, the tricks, the grades, the levels, and they go and create their own cult. And as we pointed out many times even to demystify Krollian stuff, the people who leave Crollianism, it's just a

grad school for creating your own cult. Because what does Gerald Gardner do when he goes through the ranks of Crowley's Thing? Always starts Wickham. What does l Ron Hubbard do when he goes to the ranks of Crowley's Thing? Always starts his cult dianetics and scientology. So presumably the Golden Dawn was an earlier version of this. Go through the grades, learn to create your own cult. And by the way, the high refont of the cult might also want

access to your booty hole. That also tends to be one of the key elements of having a ritual magic cult so commonly known as the Golden Dawn Secret Society voted to the study of we already talked about that Thelma is an offshoot wick As an offshoot. The three founders were William Robert Woodman, William Winn Westcott In Samuel Liddell Mathers. Mathers was a free They were all Freemasons and

Freemasons and in the Society of the Rosicrucians. Now that's interesting because again remember Liddell, Samuel Liddell Mathers is the relative of Alice Liddell, who is the basis for al and the Golden don system is based on a hierarchy of initiation borrowed from Masonic lodges. So you noticed that, hey, wait a minute, seems like the cults and the magical or ooh, the Magical orders like they seem to be just doing the same thing as the group that they sprang

out of. Exactly, these are copy paste scams. The Golden Dawn doesn't have access to ancient, unknown mystical powers. They're just borrowing from the previous system of Rosicrucianism and Masonry. And the Golden Dawn was the first of the three orders, although they were often collective referred to as Golden Dawn. The first or taught esoteric philosophy based on what Hermetic kabbala is that Jewish kabala. Now this is a hermetic version of Jewish kabbala. And what is that?

Well, it comes out of again Rosicrucianism. And wherever we get Rosicrucianism. Well, if you read Dame Francis Yates book The Rosicrucian Enlightenment, which I read fifteen years ago, it's a great book covering this period. John d figures like Christian rosen Krantz, some of the second generation Lutherans, so not necessarily Luther, although there is inference there was there is evidence that Luther was

influenced by Rosicrucianism or the Theologia Germanica, which is a Neoplatonic text. It's more definitive that the next generation of Lutherans, Johann Andre and then presumably Andre or somebody like him, wrote the Rosicrucian manifesto of Christian Rosenkrantz. So it was very popular at this time, right to have these documents written by us a made up figure, right, Christian rosen Krantz. Okay, well, nobody knows who that is. And if I recall, it's been fifteen years

since I read it, but Yates thinks it was maybe Johann Andrea. I think something like that anyway. But people say, well, why was the Luther rose the Luther Rose? And if you notice, actually it is a Rosicrucian symbol, why is Martin Luther's symbol a Rosicrucian symbol. Well, it became the seal due to John Frederick of Saxony and some of these nobility and

these dukes and these people like this, these principiates. They're mentioned in Yates's book as being into her Meticism. So I don't think that Luther himself was a rosicruci per se and that he chose this symbol. I think it's the other people that chose this who were into Rosicrucianism. But the symbol is a Rosicrucian symbol. If you didn't know that, So that's my view of it. And Dame Francis Yates's book is not a conspiracy book for those that are

wondering, by the way, So let's see. Let me show you the rosicrusion Rose. So it's very similar and there's variations on it. So in the old Rose Cross texts looks like this. I think this as a later on kind of weird occult version of it. But you get all these variations and a lot of these older alchemical texts. All right, you'll get these crosses in these images like this here. So the Brotherhood of the Rosy Cross they used this. Now, what were the Roses decrusions? What was their

philosophy? Well, they were just kind of the neoplatonic hermeticists of the fifteen hundreds. Okay, so that's not that much of a mystery. They're not. They were into again neoplatonism, but they were also seemingly into scientism.

And Dame Francis Yates's book also goes into that because she theorizes that actually the Enlightenment, the philosophy of the Enlightenment, was itself in many ways a Rosicrucian esoteric philosophy, the exoteric philosophy than like the philosophs, all these people that you think of as Enlightenment and post Enlightenment thinkers, you know, the empiricist Hume, Locke, Barkley, Kant, all these figures might have also had

her metic interest, and I think that's confirmed with Descartes. I think it's pretty clear that Descartes was involved in perhaps some rosicrucion circles as well. If I remember, I haven't read on this in like again fifteen years, but look, if you want to go deep into this, I highly recommend the Dame Francis Yates book, which again is not a conspiracy. That she was a British scholar and hence the term dame, and she pausits this theory.

So this is her and it's a well known scholarly text. It's I think it's a Rutledge classic here if you get this book, so understand, this is not a conspiracy book. This is an academic text. It's published by academic publishers. So there was another book that came out, you know, some years back, called by Peter Gay about the Pagan Enlightenment, and this goes into more detail of like, in what sense, what do you mean by pagan Right. So Peter Gay's book, which is pretty good, is

the Enlightenment Rise of Modern Paganism. These are academic texts. Again, they're not conspiracy books. So he does the overview of this, and then Dame Francis Yates's book is a much more scholarly deep dive into Rosicrucianism as the specific philosophy of that time period. So the exoteric is atheism, the excuse me, the exoteric is atheism. The esoteric is the Dame Francis Yates stuff,

the Rosicrucian Enlightenment. All right, so we're way off try but now you see where we're you see, you see the connections here, right, So the Hermetic Kabbala is this Rosicrucion not not interested in Hebrew stuff, per se Kabbala, which again is more like you know, Platonism. So you see that really this stuff is not that mystical. I mean, there's a there's a philosophical element to it, but a lot of it's a bunch of gibberish. All right. So now we have all that in mind as the background

to what we're talking about. Let's look at Isaac's article and Isaac's gonna have some interesting insights. I don't agree with everything that Isaac talks about in this article, but I did think he did a decent job of kind of summing up a lot of what we find in the books. So Isaac argues that there might be an impulture theme. It's possible, but we don't have evidence necessarily of Lewis Carroll himself doing this, so we don't know about that.

But if he's in the circles of the Society for Psychical Research with Carl Young, and if his books became super popular, it's very possible that Carl Young read this. And remember Carl Young was at when we did our Cure for Wellness breakdown. Remember we came across that Burgholtz. Burgholtz was a giant what Swedish mental institute out of like a nightmare horror movie. Brigoldsy. It's like

the archetype of a of a mk Ultra psychiatric Award. Remember that it's Yeahgoldsy, I mean, it's it's it. It plays the part dude, just the cutout. Now, we got to have the picture of this place. So if you haven't seen Cure for Wellness, I recommend it. We covered this with a doughnut the other day on his channel. So let's look at this real quick and then we'll go back to the book. Brigoldsy was a giant Switzerland. This is why Carl Jung was there, giant Switzerland psychiatric mental

institute in cultural place. And if you think I'm making that up, oh no, I'm not. In eighteen ninety eight, Eugene Blueler became the direct Bergolzi, where he would remain until nineteen twenty seven. This is the Bleuler era. It is considered the most illustrious period at the hospital, largely due to the advent of psychoanalysis, Freudian techniques and the creative work of his assistant who Karl Gajunga Carl Young Bleueler. Bleueler Bleolert had to do a Benstein joke,

followed by hal Hans Vufking Mile and Manzrebula. In addition to Carl Jung, renowned psychiatrists spent much of their career there, including Carl Abraham Interesting. I'm pretty sure he comes up in a lot of the m Kiltra stuff, Ludwig Binswanger, A lot of these people I've never heard of. Eugene Minkowski, Hermann Rorschak Rorschak tests. We've heard of that, Franz Ricklin, Constantine von Monokowel, Eugene Bleueler, Ernst Ruden, Adolph Abraham Brill, and Emil

Oberholtzer. Einstein's son Edward Einstein was a patient at bergoldzy whoa today Bergoldsey is an important center for psychiatric research and mental illness. So they're basically do the same stuff. The controversial who You and Cameron studied at bergoldsy Win in the late twenties, and that's the what the Eugene Bleueler period with Karl Gajong, Now what were they doing there? Oh, they were studying eugenics, hypnosis,

sterilization. So it is very plausible that Karl Young read this and perhaps applied it to his archetypal integration. You know, we all know what Carl Young's all about. But if he's working with doctor Ewan Cameron of mk Ultra

fame, perhaps also you and Cameron's familiar with this text. And if I recall the only place I've ever been able to find a reference to Alice in Wonderland, specifically in Mkultra, I think it's in the John Marks book where he says there's a chapter on reimprinting, which is the idea that apparently doctor Cameron thought when he was working at mont Royale in Canada. He thought you

could depattern and repattern or reimprint a person to be a new person. So I'm assuming this is some kind of like a behaviorist kind of idea that we're a blank slate, you know, Tabila rossa, and that our whole personality is all determined by external stimuli. So if you reboot the person's mind basically electro shocked them and LSD dosed them to like a reboot, then you give them new external stimuli. Supposedly, maybe the thought was, oh, we

can heal people and just make them into a new being. That was what you and Cameron's re imprinting stuff was. Anyway, one of the claims by one of the people under Cameron at I believe mont Royale, of which was basically the Canada version of Bergoldsey. So this place right here, by the way, m Keultra is all over the world. Okay, people don't know this, But the more that we dig into mk ultra, and I've dug pretty deep I'm not the deepest into this or people who have studied m culture

more than me, but I'm pretty I've read a lot on this. Okay, I'm pretty deep into m Keltra. I've read basically all but one of the mainstream books on it, and that's there's quite a few, even by scholarly people. And we have books from the actually Chaultra doctors too, which I've read. So not an chulture expert, but I know a lot about it, and it looks like, uh, if if there is a an Alice in Wonderland connection to in Chultra. So far, what I've been able

to figure out is that is this, uh the Montreal experiments. What's the name of this place, mont Royal? That was mont Royal? Is it Royal? Victorian? This is it? By the way, this is this is not this is not fake. This is all like people have been awarded a settlements over this. You understand this is not conspiracy theory, right, people have been given money because of doctor Ewan Cameron's experiments and whatnot. That's just that's a CBC by the way, that's mainstream news. Somebody remind you

mont Royal, that's it. The complex perched at the on the slope of mont Royal is now called the Victoria Hospital at McGill University. So, by the way, McGill University used to be where they were doing MK ultra in Canada. Uh, there it is, dude. Every one of these places is freaking straight out of a damn a horror movie. Man. The horror movies are telling you the truth, bro, I'm telling you. Look, I mean, if you if you watch Cure for Wellness, which not is

not it's not exactly about multra. It's relevant to m culture, but it's not exactly about that. It's just the last movie that came up that I can think of, which was basically an MK ultra movie. You know where you have like the No, I'm not gonna I ain't gonna shop for that shit. I'm not I'm not trying to buy my way into the mind control facilities. Uh. Is a pretty good movie, pretty good psychological horror thriller.

If you haven't seen Cure for Wellness, if you're looking for one of those, uh, you know, MK ultra type movies, but it has to be I'm speaking specifically of the MK ultra movies taking place in a dang facility. Right like this, it's got to look halfway like a castle, you know what I mean? Right, For I mean to be a real legit m k ultra mind control facility destroying your subconscious and smashing your mind into many pieces, it's got to at least have some castle in it, right,

It's got to be like castle. Its not a legit m kulture facility anyway. So I guess it's the Yeah, Alan Memorial Institute is what it was called from nineteen fifty three to nineteen seventy three at McGill University when they were doing the m culture projects. So that all of that to say that one of the women who claimed but yeah, I meant to say, sucker Punch is of course the other movie where you get the classic mental institute creating

of the Altars. And we've covered sucker Punch many times, right, because she's in there with her, you know a crew of bad bishes and they are cabaret ladies, but they also happen to be altars, but they're also not really there. They're altars in what's her name, Ellie Rowing or I forget her name. You know what I'm trying to say, Yeah, sucker

Punch is another one of these in cultra alternate Hollywood mind people. All right, So back to this anyway, For the whole point of all that was just to say that in search of the mentoring candidate, I think John Mark says that one of the women that was underneath you and Cameron, her claim is that Cameron was using Alice in Wonderland to try to reimprint her. So

so far, that's what I can come up with. Now. In John C. Lilly's book, where he admits to doing some of this stuff as well, and dosing young children, programming and beta programming the human biocomputer, he doesn't mention Alice in Wonderland, but he does mention showing people on LSD, and I'm assuming he means the kids to melting clocks and a lot of surrealist imagery that you would associate with Alison Wannerland. So that's a tenuous connections,

not explicitly also Wonnerland. But here's the book, this is the course the dolphin freak who had a thing for dolphins, absolute degenerate, mind controlled idiot like just I mean, these people are the worst, right, total mad science lunatic and the idea is that we'll think about it. If the human body and the mind are computers, they're biological computers. Well, you can erase and reboot a computer, right, yeah, so erase it,

reboot it with these toxins, and then use external stimuli to reprogram. That's the basic idea here. And it's real. This is not made up. So this is all real. You understand. These are actual elder doctors who have actual books that I've actually read and actually lectured on. And I've read about this for over ten years. So we're not in the conspiracy domain anymore. People. You understand now pop culture associates all of these things with it,

and there is again, there's some precedent for that association. But exactly whether or not Alis in Wonderland is used in MK Ultra. So far, I've only uncovered the claim of one of the women underneath you and Cameron, and I'm not saying she's lying. I'm just saying that so far, that's the only hard documented connection that I can find. So anyway, Isaac and his article goes on to talk about a lot of we we talked about. So he was hanging out with Carl Jung as we said, that's what gives

us the connection to because Carl Jung. As you know, remember everybody, Carl Young is not just he's not just a philosopher. Well he's the greatest, he's the best. Well he's not just that. He's also in the OSS. What. Yes, Carl Young was a spy and you can read his letters back and forth between Alan Dulles because Carl Young was agent for eight eight. And that's interesting because people think, wait a minute, he wrote these esoteric texts and he talks about, you know, things that seem possibly

pagan and maybe even tiny mustache Man. No, dude, he was informing too Dulles on Tiny Mustache Men followers for the OSS. He was agent for eight eight. And this is not just on Reddit. This is a public here. It is Daily Beast. He was known as agent for eighty eight for the OSS. Carl Young Oss agent for eight eight. Here's the actual I think this is the actual, one of his actual letters. Yeah, well that's somebody's translation of the letter. Now have you ever heard doctor Joran

Peterson mentioned this. No, he doesn't ever mention this, but he says he's read the collected works, right, So if he's read the collected works. This is Carl Young's Letters Volume one, nineteen oh six to nineteen fifty. It's just I'm not saying it's a conspiracy. It's just interesting he hasn't mentioned this because I've talked about all this kind of stuff for a long time,

and it's not a conspiracy theory. It's an actual historical fact. You can actually see the somebody has on one of these websites as scanned in the actual one of the telegrams back and forth between Alan Dulles and Carl Young. Anyway, but that again makes the connection closer between Carl Jung and MK Ultra. You see, and pretty much all of these dudes right are involved in mculture in varying ways and endiffering degrees because MK Ultra was not one program that

people get confused over. This. By the way, we're can we get any support tonight, anybody, if you're learning things, please support the show via the stream lavis function and give me a super chat if you feel so inclined, if you want to be nice tonight. Right there, So, guys, everybody wants to talk about in the chat, I'm not talking about my mods. I'm talking about these new people like they don't want to talk about what the night's topic is. Okay, that's not the topic tonight.

If you're wondering about all these other topics, I just did a show with Jason Burmas about other topics. So go watch the Burmus show we just did. It's not tonight's topic. It's not that we're talking about Karl Young and we're talking about Lewis Carroll and we're gone way off in M culture. But that's okay because we are live learning. We're live learning. And by the way, as to your question about Hebrew mysticism, I've already answered this.

I've already answered this, and I've talked about a million times. So he's in the circles of Carl Young via the Society for Psychical Research. Kral Young is hanging out with working with for many years at Bergoldsey doctor ew and Cameron of M culture fame, and at Bergoldsey they're doing all kinds of M culture stuff. And M culture again is not just can we mind control somebody,

can we sneak LSD and make them go crazy? No? No, it's vast numbers, dozens of programs at universities all over the world, and that's what's people are discovering more and more is that M culture is not I mean used to the researchers would say the common phraseology would say, oh, you know, M culture was not one program. M culture was dozens of programs at dozens of universities in America, in North America. No, it's all

over the world. They were doing M culture research throughout Australia. There's a whole book on that that was not that was published not that long ago online. So you understand, people are piecing this together and figuring out even still

new information is emerging. Hey wait a minute, this guy. Hey, you know, Carl Young's over here working at Bergoldsey with doctor Ewan Cameron for years together in the Bleueler years at Bergoldsy and Lewis Carroll is hanging out to some degree with Freud and Young at the Society, the Society for Psychical Research.

Uh. And that also connected them to Blovatski. Although the Society for Psychical Research interestingly debunked they did a debooking of Madam Blavatski, and so Madam Lavatski was of course a fraud because she got debunked in her seances but that actually doesn't matter, because even though you can be a fraud and be a

good spy, all good spies are frauds. And Madam Blavatski, I believe was what was working for British intelligence, and that explains why she was going to meet her ascended masters in the Far East, who were her handlers and her KGB context like contacts like uh Nicholas Rock another one of her occult associates. And remember, guys, again, people are mystified. I'm gonna have to debunk you guys a little bit. I'm sorry to break your sensationalist fervor.

But a lot of this occult gibberish gobbledegook, it's just another way to have spies. Yes, you heard me right, Their codes, their code speak, their NERD codes. What's the Joaquin Phoenix's line in signs right, He's like, there's no aliens. It's just a bunch of nerds talking to other nerds with their nerd codes. Exactly, Joaquin Phoenix. Guess what, It's the same thing. A lot of secret societies are just networks of espionage

and spies. That's it. So you're mistress, I don't know, dude, is that's a bunch of woo woo gibberish to cover up for Madam Levatski is not going to meet ascended masters. I mean, she might have been possessed and into the demonic for sure, But when she's going to talk to sended masters, that's her handlers, and that's doctor Spence's theory. I think that's true anyway. Now, Isaac talks about what we talked about in our video, and to be fair, Isaac, I had not read this article.

Isaac wrote this article before I did my video. I had not read this. I did my video separate from Isaac's article, which I discovered recently. Isaac talks about the initiation element. Now, if Lewis Carroll is in the circles of the Golden Dawn, this seems plausible. This makes sense that there would be an initiatory element to it, because maybe the first you know Alice in Wonderland is it has its own themes of alternate personality and whatnot.

But through the looking glass, right, perhaps that's another initiatory movement as well, because in the first one, for example, she goes into the underworld. The rabbit is the cycle pump, right, The psychopomp is the literary device that leads us and takes us into the underworld. So following the White Rabbit takes her to the underworld, we have a classic Hero's journey story of the descent the Catabastis into the underworld and then the return. Classic ancient literature

is very common. If you take literary classes, you'll learn this, like in the first one. So all this stuff is pretty common. And that would also parallel with Carl Jung's archetypal patterns as well, and that would you know, this is where you get Joseph Campbell, right, those are Campbell stuff is just like water down Carl Young. So Hero's Journey Alice is doing

that. But you can also read it as a descent into the subconscious because in the esoteric perspective, those those two things are kind of the same, the esoteric journey into the abyss or into the underworld the same as the descent of the conscious mind into the unconscious mind, because the unconscious mind is the portal to the underworld in esoteric and even in other philosophies as well. So that is I would say pretty I'm pretty certain that that's what Lewis is working

with here. Now. In the second one, we don't go into the underworld, okay, So in Through the Looking Glass we go into the mirror world, so it's a little more self consciously neoplatonic. But in the first one we go into the underworld. So that's the descent. That's the also part of the initiation right as well. And so Isaac goes with the initiation reading, which I think is probably correct. Again, if he's in the circles of Golden Dawn, if he's familiar with Carl Jung's stuff, I think

they would overlap. Would they overlap? He might not, let me see if he overlaps. So it might be young. He might be too early for young or to know Carl Young. But Carl Young would definitely be familiar with his stuff. So if he died in what the late ninety eighteen nineties, could he have read? No, so Young would be too too young, get it, Carl would be too young for him to read. However, Young would be pulling from Carrol because as we saw what Carol died in

the eighteen nineties, right, what's that? Right? Thank you guys for the super chats. Appreciate the support. We're trying to go deep here. I mean you guys like the deep dive analysis, right, I mean nobody else goes this deep, right. I mean I'm not trying to knock everybody, right, we got our butt. Our friends. I'm not talking about our friends go deep, right, Cootel goes deep, Isaac goes deep.

I'm not dissing our friends. I'm saying, like, if you were to scour the internet for analyses of this book or choose the YouTube videos for these literary works, dude, nobody goes even close to where we go. Now, there's some nerds, I have to admit, like you if you type in a Dune analysis, Okay, there's nerds. There's spergatrons that know Doune better than I'll never know ever know Doune. Okay, but they only know Done. Okay. They can't tell you about perennialism. They don't know anything

about Done utilizing mk ulture principles that they don't know anything about it. That's way out of their their pay grade. Okay. So nerds can only give you like the intra context level of the book. Okay, they can master all the nerddom, but they can't tell you anything beyond that. So they're basically worthless unless you're looking for a detail about you know what happens in Doune part five to the you know the worm or whatever. Okay, the nerds

can help you out there. They can't tell you nothing about neo platonism, I'll tell you that much. So. So if he died in eighteen ninety eight, yeah, then so he could. He wouldn't have known Carl Young unless he was into kraljung as like a fifteen year old, which he might have been. You know what I'm saying. Y'all get my jokes, all right, So back to Isaac's point. A couple more. I don't agree with all of Isaac's symbolism references here, although overall Isaac's article is pretty good.

There's a couple of places where I disagree with the symbol but he admits that he's kind of maybe reaching or speculating about some of the symbolism. He talks about Lewis Carroll's odd interest in apparently young women. I guess young girls profess to be Christian, but it was more so into neoplatonism. It seems we talked about all that. Let's see the name Alice. I thought, isn't altaya truth in Greek anyway? Alithia alta, what's what's truth in Greek?

I didn't think it was Alice, but maybe it's close to Alice. So so Isaac talks about the descent. That's what we just talked about as above, so below, microcosm, macrocosm. That's true, and it's true not just of the underworld when Alice descends there, but also when she goes into the mirror world. So so the oh yeah, I wanted to talk about this point because this relates that this is another potential connection between MK Ultra

and Alice in Wonderland, and that's the drug element. So a lot of the scholarship says, there's not really any hard data that we can as far as unless there's something Alex say, excuse me, So it's not Alice, but it was close enough. But as far as I could tell, it doesn't look like Lewis Carroll was doing drugs. And this is important because everybody says, well, what about the Cheshire Cat. Isn't he smoking a hookah? Alice? We have mushrooms and we have Alice eating and drinking things that

make her smaller, bigger, you know whatever. It seems plausible that the circles that he was in, if he's hanging out with these Golden Dawn people, I would say, yes, they were probably experimenting with opium dens hashish right, if you remember, so Conan Doyle is in these circles, and Conan Doyle hash he has a Sherlock go to opium dens. It's some of the stories, right, because I've read the Conan Doule's Sherlock stories, but

it's been many years. I don't remember all the details. But doesn't Sherlock. I know that Benedict cucumber Batch cucumber snatch, cucumber bender snatch. I know that he goes to opium dens. But I want to think that it's part of the stories, because if you remember, Sherlock has a spy network, and he sets up these spy networks like the Hobos. He's got a Hobo spy network and he's got like drugged in spy networks that tell him information.

And people wonder why that is. Well, Sherlock represents British intelligence first of all, because his brother Microft explicitly is basically British intelligence they hang out at what Boodles Club, which is I think where all the British intelligence people were supposed to be at. And the address two twenty one B Baker Street is actually a reference to British intelligence. I read that in a Conan Doyle biography one time. So if you didn't know that, that also connects via

Conan Doyle in the circles with Lewis Carroll with British intelligence. And by the way, I just told you that already, because many of the Anglican people were also British intelligence and spies. So yes, shocker right. British intelligence also recruited from Anglican ministers. Of course. In fact, I remember a famous I think Rushtony. No, somebody in Rushdene's group wrote a book about a famous Anglican spy. He was a missionary soldier, spy did all these

kind of crazy missions. I forget his name though, but it wasn't I don't think rushing Any wrote the book, but somebody in rush Any circles wrote this book about this famous Anglican adventurer or spy man. So anyway, is somebody doubting me on that? Let's see what we get when we search it. By the way, I think when Jamie and I went there, I think we went by I think we went by to twin would be Baker Street. So now it's the it's a museum. Okay. So of course,

YouTube basically, I mean Google basically doesn't work. It basically pulls up absolutely nothing that you're looking for. But I did read that in a biography of Conan Doyle and that there's a reason why he chose that address because the address used to be it used to be something connected. It might have been maybe a safe house for British intelligence at one point, so it's a coded reference to British intelligence. But anyway, my craft is actually, uh, British

intelligence. But I'm trying to remember if that's in the books, right, because after a while you start mixing the TV presentations with the books, you know what I mean. So let's see, let's see what not Boodles is Dodge in these club excuse me? So my Croft Homes is the brother older brother. He's a government official, he's a British intelligence operative. So let's see Sherlock Vigis visits him at the Diogenes Club. Uh, my cross position

is unique. His position is a role that never has any anything been like it, nor will there ever be, So he's some sort of like super spy. Basically. Anyway, we're way off off topic, but we're doing a non Schitzo stream of consciousness association here, So this is the proper way to do analysis and association, not the way Schitzo's and crazy conspiracy idiots do

it. Let's see, so Isaac theorizes that the there's a kind of communion that Alice is undergoing here with she's drink, she drinks the bottle of liquid, she eats the cake, so it's like bread and wine. But it perhaps could be a drug version of this kind of thing. And Huxley speaks of drugs as this way, right, so Doors of Perception other books he speaks of, you know, various types of hallucinogenic drugs being the sacrament of

the future religion. If you remember that we covered that when we did our Door's Perception breakdown. So that makes sense that the people in these circles could have been experimenting with drugs, as you guys know Crowley's drug Diary, which if Lewis Carroll is in the circles of Golden Dawn people. Perhaps he knew

or met Crowley. I'm not sure about that. Maybe he did, but Crowley was doing drug diaries where he was recording these experiences, and doctor Spence theorizes that Crowley's drug diaries influenced Huxley because they partied together and presumably did drugs together. They might have even touched butts together, like the butt. I don't know, very possible, but pun intended. It looked like that could be another potential connection. Right, So maybe he is adding the drug elements

to the novels as part of the initiation or whatever. This book is supposed to be. Thank you guys for these super chats. Must appreciate it. You can support the stream via the super chat function right there. If you're learning new things, feel free to support us. So Isaac talks about initiation going into the underworld. We've covered that here. I'm not sure I buy this. This is kind of a reach, Isaac says. So we know

that Alice has a couple of kiddies. One of them is called Dinah and the other one's called I think just called Kitty, and one of the black one is white. Is this the two pillars? I mean, I do think the black and white is important because we get a lot of either ores, So the whole novel is concerned with word games, logic puzzles, either ores, and then that's to be part of where I talk about dialectics. Wonderland as we know, or the looking Glass world is arranged in a bunch

of giant squares, which is the Masonic floorboard. It's also the chessboard. So it's possible that I think the black and white kitty mean this, but the fact that Dinah is close to Bina, I don't buy that, So I'm not buying the word association there for cobbalism. Isaac may say potential connection between the High Priestess tarot deck and the idea of the Red Queen the White

Queen and isis. This is possible. The Golden Dawn definitely has a high place for Isis in their ritual philosophy or whatever, so this seems plausible that there could be Golden Dawn magic elements in this tarot decks. They don't They have a close association with playing card decks, and we know the playing car card characters come to life in right the Wonderland stories, so this seems plausible. At potential tarot card playing card connection. Jamie, can you com here?

Isn't there a connection between playing cards and tarot cards? Okay? So just yeah, no no information on that just yet. Okay, could you make me another coffee? By the way, thank you. Someone who knows more about the history of playing cards and tarot cards. I guess we can look that. We've looked everything else up, so let's look this up. Now. Was the rider Weight tarot deck? Is that from the Golden Dawn Jamie? Yeah, so the most famous tarot deck that everybody thinks about when

they see the images of the Hangman or whatever. That's a Golden Dawn playing card deck. So so yes. So now this is just wiki crap, so who knows. I don't know how historical this is, but apparently you can use playing cards as a form of divination, right, so playing cards can be you can lay them out the way that you lay out tarot cards for divination or whatever. But I was looking for the actual history of this. I don't know the history of how far back tarot cards go with playing

cards, but I'm assuming there's probably some overlap there. So anybody, if people that know about this, you can tell me about this. That's not something I know a lot about. But let's see back to Isaac's article. Isaac then theorizes about m Kilter and child aboose. I don't know about that. He's wrong about the dramatic Germanic goddess of Ostara. That's not easter. Ostra is just Wasn't that just the Germanic term for the spring and Easter is

Paska. Okay, so the words don't necessarily mean pagan deities, but that that's remember that because we're going to talk here in a little bit about the mistake that dumb conspiracy people make, that evangelical people make, that schizo people make, and heretics make with word concept fallacies and false either ors. We'll notice this in a minute because this is actually part of the dialogue that Alice has with some of these characters. So then Isaac talks about, you know,

MK Ultra and the notion of his association. Now I do think I don't know that. Again, we don't know if this novel was in any way written with the intention of some kind of mind control. Maybe there was people experimenting with this in his day, maybe in his Golden Dawn circles they were, but we just don't know. Maybe eventually information will come forward showing that, but it does look like later people, possibly you and Cameron use

this as a experiment. That's as far as I can say, right, But you've got like Fritz Springmeyer right places, like a huge amount of like oh yeah, like the novel was written as a way to create alters in mind control. I mean, but what's the proof of that? Right? So that's a claim, But how do we prove that? So, as far as I can tell, it hasn't been demonstrated. It might be true,

but it hasn't been so that is a theory. Okay. So again we're always distinguishing what can be demonstrated with facts and evidence, facts and logic. We're straight up, Ben Shapiro, facts and logic, which don't care about your feelings, Facts and logic and our characterings versus theories. And I'm not opposed to theories. We just always want to be clear when we're theorizing

and we don't have hard data, right per se. Dave McGowan's theory that many of the serial killers might be a form of Phoenix program, it's a theory. There's some evidence that suggests that there are some programs to use serial killers. Do we then say, can we then know? Can we make the leap every serial killer is a mind control program assassin from the Phoenix. We don't know that. So we have to be guarded in not rash in our leaps. What's the what's the fallacy? I'm drawing a blank here.

I'm supposed to know this stuff, right, hasty generalization or a rash inference. Right, And we also have to keep in mind other fallacies that are particularly dangerous for conspiracy minded people. Right. What are the two fallacies that conspiracy people always fall into? Texas sharpshooter fallacy and the gambler's fallacy. Just remember, as a theorizer of real world geopolitical events and so forth, we have to not fall into the temptations of thinking. For example, gambler's fallacy.

I rolled the six on the dice three times in a row. Does that mean or in any way determine that my next role will be a six? Absolutely not. That's the gambler's fallacy, and conspiracy theorists fall into this all the time. It's like a classic mistake of conspiracy minded people. Anyway, that we've talked about that before. We're not gonna be talking about that

when we get to the conspiracy people. We're almost there. So Isaac again my academic text says that the theory of some people is that Lewis Carroll himself was an mpdd ID, which does make sense given the fact that other elements that come forth in the novel is I mean, aside from his fixation of taking photographs of young people, that the novel is actually dealing with through the looking lessure with Adulton, So the move from childhood to adulthood and confronting the

elements of the adult world that don't make sense to a kid, and realizing as a kid that you will have to eventually grow up and become an adult. So the direct literal interpretation of Alex as she progresses Alex Alice as I can't believe you confused me with her unbelie Alice. As she progresses through the novel, she eventually gets a crown because she wants to be a queen.

So in this level of interpretation, this is about Alice wanting to become an adult, and she sees grown women, she sees that they have they can do things that she can't do as a kid. They have privilege. Adults have privileges that kids don't have. So it's partly a novel about grappling with growing up and becoming an adult. And we know that, I mean,

that's pretty much an undisputed element of this novel. Everybody says this, But we know that Carol had an issue with this because he was a very lonely adult and it might have to do with his perversions of proclivities. I don't know, but he apparently had a hard time with becoming an adult. This might have been why he had this perhaps regressive childlike alter personality. Perhaps he

was abused himself that caused this alter personality, trauma based abuse. Who knows that might have happened to him, right, And so on one level, it's that it's grappling with the things that don't make sense in the adult world, Like you get to grow up, you have freedom, but you're gonna die. Why do we have to die? Well, you can't stop it. If I can't stop dying, then is everything something that I can't stop? Why can't I cause things to be different in the world. Well,

there's just this fixed, determined law that you're gonna die? Does that mean everything fixed? So you see how it kind of falls over into this predestinarian theme. So themes of the novel include these are my notes, physical and emotional transformation, dealing with what's going to happen as you get older, the lowliness that will come about as you grow up. Apparently he was, as

far as we know, maybe celibate. Don't know if he was Skittles or PDF maybe, but apparently he doesn't have any relationships that we know of, so apparently he was lonely in his life. He sought a lot of love and approval. Apparently he didn't get it. He was obsessed with the trauma of growing up and the questions of life and death. Although we have these disciplines like logic and mathematics that he's studying, he's concerned with things that don't

make sense. So how can we have logic, mathematics, these rational, coherent disciplines seemingly that he's studying, and yet when confronted with the world out there, everything seems to not make sense. It's contradictions. Society isn't organized in a just way. There's the oppression of the elites against the non elites, the plebs, the garbage people, the vulgars, the skanks. There's corruption amongst the nobility. Why are the corrupt in charge. I think that's

what Humpty Dumpty Ruck represents. Because he's fat, he's well fed, he's all about fashion and style. He knows his fashions. He corrects her when she confuses a belt with a cravat, and his whole thing is to constantly say that, thank you. Yeah. His whole thing is to contly say, uh, the King will save me. The King will put me back together if I fall apart, if I fall And we notice he's perched on a wall above her, and he says, well, if I fall down

and break like, the King will send his horses. They'll put me back together. So it's this sort of uh, the upper wealthy class or the nobility that appeal to him, worship the King he's always talking about. He's always named his names, name dropping, right. He's like, the King knows me, and I know the White Queen. They gave me this cravat, right. So he represents the fat, indulgent, lazy, wealthy and upper class that sort of sucked up to the king and the queen, I

think. Uh So. Jamie, by the way, has an analysis she wanted me to mention if you want to get Jamie's book, you can head on over to my website and get her Weird Stuff book. She has a whole section on Alice in Wonderland and the conspiracy reading of the text. So she goes into the connections that Disney had with this story. So obviously Disney as much later into the nineteen twenties, thirties, forties, but Disney had

an intense fascination with this story. Everybody's I'm sure seeing the Disney version of Alice in Wonderland. I actually haven't seen that since I was a kid, so I've what's fresh in my mind is the books. So I don't even remember. I mean, I remember a few images from the Disney one, but I don't even remember what I was in the Disney one. So I can't speak too much to the Disney version of it. Because But anyway, if you want Jamie's take, you can get signed copies of her book over

at the website. Also, this notion of if he did have split personality, this also could have contributed to why he believed that you could pass into a mirror world, right, So if that's his inner weird experience, it's however that works for people that have this MPD d id dilemmit. By the way, there was a movie that came out with the Matthew from Downton Abbey. I forget that guy's name, And you're saying, why are you talking

about Matthew from Downton Abbey. Well, I'm gonna show you because this is another thing that popped up that I didn't expect. And I don't know how much scholarly basis there is to this because when I was in undergrad in grad school, I took a lot of lit classes. I've had a lot of lit stuff, so I know it pretty well. But what I don't know is much of the history of the authors. So I don't I mean, I know about Dostoevsky and but like, I couldn't tell you anything about Charles

Dickens. I don't remember much about him. But did you see that movie with what's his freaking name? They made a Charles Dickens movie and you're watching it, and I'm like, okay, so they're gonna make a you know, I don't even really want to watch this, Jamie really wanted to watch it. And it's like, you got the dude from Downton Abbey playing him? Is it this one? Yeah, the man who invented Christmas. What's that guy's name, Matthew Dan Stevens, Right, And I'm watching this movie

and he's got multiple personality disorder and I'm like what. And so they're basically saying theorizing that Charles Dickens also was mpdd ID and perhaps that's how he came up with all this vast spergatron world of characters. I mean, I don't know, right, but so it's this movie here and uh, he kind of goes nuts. I have no idea if this is based on any thing legit though, right, Like, I don't know if Charles Dickens was had

alters, but that's the theory of this movie. And in the mood you're watching it and basically like all the characters like Scrooge, you know, they're like alters in his head. And I wasn't expecting this is getting crazy. So anyway, let me see if I hit all my notes here. Oh, next thing we want to get to is, uh, if there isn't a cultic element as we said there might be the notion of the alienation of

Sophia. So Alice might be the feminine principle who is exiled from her original world, her happy world, her Eden world, into this crazy world. So we're moving beyond the interpretation of just a young girl growing up into adulthood and maturation, but perhaps an esoteric Sophia principle, where so so Fia creates a prism world where she's trapped, and thus Alice is a fallen soul into a fallen prison world, a gnostic reading like we are. Hence the dream

interpretation. If you don't know right, you get this dream revelation at the end of through the looking goss So that's also possible. The other element, as we wanted to say, is the linguistic stuff. So let's talk about a few of the problems of the linguistics. Language in the book. Language can cause and anticipate events, and for example, nursery rhymes in the story actually cause events to occur. In two cases. We have the exchange with

tweedledy and tweetled dumb and the discussion with Humpty dumpty. So this is interesting because in the other world you have wordplay that in this world we think of it as simply word play. But in that world, for example, she talks about Humpty Dumpty, then Humpty Dumpty, uh falls, right, is that right? I'm trying to remember exactly every deeping does he fall? I

just read that the other night. I'm trying to remember because he's saying if I fall, it won't matter because the all the King's forces, all the King's men will put us back to oh in the ravens. So she when she's arguing with tweedled the and Tweedled dumb, somebody mentions a crow, and then a giant crow appears. So in this world, the words that you speak actually can cause reality to occur, and that again, that would suggest

cabalism. Right. So if that's the case in that dimension of the potentia, the realm of potentiality, the imaginal realm, which is where she is, right, that does cause the words cause things to be real. That could be callballistic as well. Where she enters is specifically a mirror world, right, So you actually what she walks through the mirror because in the first sequence she's playing with her kittens, and she's playing with some toys and there's

a chessboard, and so everything that's in her real world. When she steps into the mirror world, there's a corollary to it. But in that world, the things are alive and they become kind of guides on her journey, her process. They're the new psychopomps, so to speak. Even though she doesn't go to an underworld. They become sort of the animal guides or the

spirit guides, like you might see a shamanic initiation with the animal. You know, people wear the mask and the animal spirits and they're dancing around and they're part of this quest hero's quest journey that you're on. So we're moving into the gnostic and or initiation journey. Reading of the text, I think this is probably the case. And in this sense it would be she's grappling with all of the predetermined game theory stuff. Again, he's a mathematician.

He likes neoplatonism. So is the world a matrix of controlled determined events based on a strict causal chain, or is Alice able to figure out the matrix solve it become a queen herself and awaken from her dream. The sleeper must awaken and thus, in waking up, does she then achieve self actionation self will to not be determined by the matrix? And I'm not joking when I said the matrix, because it's not an accident that you get the matrix from

this. Okay, movies like the Matrix could never have happened if you didn't have stories like this. So in a way, Lewis Carroll is anticipating simulation theory way before it comes about. But I mean, we're not gonna totally give him credit for simulation there, because ultimately Platonism and gnosticism are forms of simulation theory way before. Who's the Bostrom posits it and Elon Musk talks about it? Right, so neck Bostrom posits it. What in like two thousand

and two, three or four? Whatever? Simulation theory h spergatrons and computer nerds talk about it. Dude, have you ever seen like the matrix? Like whatever? The computers to be lead? Right, everybody sends the matrix has taught every nerd, every uh you know, hacker Man has talked about this theory. And then we get, of course Elon making it more popular by talking about it a few years ago. What if we're in a matrix.

You couldn't have had any of that, in my view without Alice in Wonderland, because not only does Alice in Wonderland influence the matrix and the right white Rabbit and all that. And by the way, remember Neo actually goes to the mirror. Remember that. I just remember that Neo doesn't just follow the white rabbit when he takes the pill. He goes in the mirror,

another through the looking glass reference. And I just now remember, I mean spend a long time so much the matrix, but they referenced Alex in Wonderland a lot in the matrix if you remember, which is again you know, the matrix is totally one percent of a gnostic neoplatonic thing. But the other element that I'm getting at here, which is the unique contribution I think of perhaps Lewis in this notion, is the determinist mathematics element, because as this

mathematician, he's clearly conflicted and concerned with predetermination and mathematical determination. If we live in a giant math matrix, then every action is determined. So how do we get out of this? Well, we got to go past the ice wall. I'm just joking. Does a joke how do we get out of this? Oh, we got to fly up to the to the ice ice, to the snowball dome that covers Earth and bust through. I'm joking, right, We're get we get full Eddie Bravo up in here. I'm

just joking. How do we get out of it? Well, presumably there's some sort of process by which one awakens, right, sleeper must awaken. So are we in a computer simulation? Are we in a dream state? Or is it a surrealist thing? So? Is it anticipating surrealism? Probably because if the story, as you know, we're not. I'm not going to the end because this is a part one. If you want the full

analysis, we get a lot more to go through. I'm gonna do the pattern recognition stuff, the examples of the schizo stuff, the dialectic stuff, and the second half of the story in the part two. So we've talked about the fixation on the either or she enters the mirror world, there's these shamanic elements. Is very much like the matrix. The matrix plays on this

heavily. The monster, the bander Snatch or excuse me, Bandersnatch is jabberwockie, right, this is This part was kind of confusing, by the way, this is actually a complex novel if you don't have the illustrated version. For example, if you're reading the chapter about hi haa haya and hata, it's a play on the way the British say hair and hatter ha ha ha,

So it's a play on how the British say it. And if you don't have the visuals of the excellent illustrations of the Tierney guy, you don't know that that's just the mad Hatter and the hair who make a reappearance in the story. A lot of things in this mirror land also are backwards, and and everything's caddy wamp us, right, so you walk forward in some

places to go backwards in some places. When she talks to the red Red Queen, yeah, she talks to the Red quet the White Queen, one of the queens, and she says she talks about her future memories, and so they have this exchange about Alice says, well, you can only remember things in the past, and the queen makes fun of her and says, well, that's very limiting. So you don't even remember all the future events that haven't happened yet. So she's moving in reverse to go forward. We'll

talk about the flowers being alive. We'll talk about cause and effect operating in

a different way, so a lot of contradictions on purpose. We'll talk about the meaning of the blended animals in the part two, and then we're going to get deep into the metaphysics, as they said, because you have the famous story of the tortoise and the hair, which plays an important role in the Douglas Hofstatter book, Gurdell ascher Bach and actually many mathematicians have fixated on the story Tortoise in the hair because it's a kind of a excuse me out

the tortise in there, what the tortoise said to Achilles. It ends up being this kind of mathematical puzzle that we're going to talk about. So this is a work of definitely high IQ spurgratism to the max. There's a lot going on. There is definitely a cult esoteric element. Other books too, I forgot to mention Flatland by Edwin Abbott will talk about some of that in

the part too. Yeah, they're on a chessboard and that's why all the squares are laid out in this certain way which I think is part of the mathematical determinism in the game theory. Right, So he's looking at a chessboard in a mathematical way, Lewis Carrolem say, and for him, he's reading that as a kind of determinism. So let's see, we got to save a chat from If you want to support the show, by the way, you can do it right now. Actually, I got one thing I gotta

tell you before we move to the super chats. This is really important. Our Ai vivek Ramaswami has something he wants to tell you. I'm gonna put you on something. Downsides to consuming nasty fake sucerlose. Each dose of chad Mode contains the kick of a cup and a half of coffee that we're all proud of. I got a browser here. This is Jay Dyers, much vaunted, much sought after philosophy one oh one. Now he just got this page up. We are just testing it out. You guys are some of

the first people in the world to see it. I want to say, for my part, it's not philosophy. I want oh one. I think

this is a miss mistitling. I really think is as like philosophy unleashed because a philosophy want a one course, they give you kind of some useless information that you can't make sense of. Jay actually lays out, over twelve weeks, dozens and dozens of hours put into just the presentation of this, let alone the hundreds and thousands of hours of research that it takes to have a coherent evolution and history of the origins of philosophy, the uses of philosophy,

the different ways to look at it over time, and how that has been brought about to what we have today, which is almost an absence of philosophy on the objective, logic and reason side, in an overabundance of woke philosophy that is irrational and is made up day by day as people are like, I think we should bring racism back, and then here's a justification, and then it gets wokeified and spread out, and then all of a sudden you

have a bunch of communist socialist ideas where you become the property in action. You need to be able to stand on your own ground. It helps to have a foundation in philosophy because it's a method define truth when you get down to what philosophy is there, because you love truth enough to go and learn how to find it because it's valuable. So if you're interested in things like that, there is the landing page. We'll link it up in the notes.

It is a longer once, so we'll get a shorter URL for this. I'm sure Jay has a link on his page. I just wanted to show it off. Now you know what exists, you can go look for it and see why this is not your father's philosophy. Right, So well done. I'm proud of everyone who helped to produce and edit the course, and of course Jay did a flawless job in presenting the course over those twelve weeks. And he's a juggernaut. He's another guy just like John Bush.

I'm going to put you on something crazy real quick. Most of these zoomer Jimbros are consuming macro guzzling synthetic dies and synthetic sweeteners on the daily. They don't even know it. Goofy af. There's nothing great about that. Do not listen any further unless you are an Alpha or Sigma male. This is important and there could be consequences. There's a new certified Sigma male pre work

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so proceed with caution. It's as simple as mixing one or two scoops of our fine powder into water or juice, providing you with a delicious, energizing beverage featuring a burst of sweet organic fruit flavor. Chad Mode will give you the extra edge you desperately crave. Don't miss out. Secure your supply of chad Mode on TikTok shop with a limited Yes, I hit the wrong mute. There's like five mutes. So let's go to super chats. If you do want my breakdown from five years ago of the first one, I

will put that in the chat for you out. Try to remember to link it there. It is right here, so you can go watch that if you want to be refreshed on Alice in Wonderland. And this is a five year later, a part two, So it took us long enough, So there's that watch that you go. Do that on your own time. Do it on your own time, all right, Super Jats, Jack five dollars forgive you. We forgive you for being late. We know you was busy making up a mega planet. I like that he gave us the option of

being included in the discussion of whether he should make a mega planet. Like he didn't just go ahead and make it, you know what I mean, Like he could have just done it, but no, he chose to include us in the discussions of the making of a mega planet. So if you guys don't know what I'm talking about, we had a ruckus time in last night's live stream right here internal monologue Sam Hyde TikTok cults, star seeds and theory ons And if you don't know what theoryons are, you can educate,

educate yourself. Educate yourself by last night's stream. But I did specifically clip out the funniest part where I had not seen this clip, and it was one of the funniest clips I'd seen in a long time. And this dude, uh, he might even top organic like us, He might even be better. But you can watch that clip right there to see what I thought was so funny. Not saying Theoxy advocate two dollars. Do you speak of Heidiger's design, I have not spoken much of that. I've I had one

class on Hidiger. I don't know a whole lot about Hidigger, so something I need to probably dive into. I've read a couple secondary sources on Hidiger, but I haven't doved it into. I haven't diven dove, dived, dived divin, I haven't gotten into the depths of Heidiger. What do you think about phenomenology? I had two classes on phenomenology. I did get pretty deep into Hostserle. There's some interesting things there. Is it compatible with orthodoxy?

I view it as that I don't see death as necessary. Well, I'm not sure what you mean, because even though it's not necessary, it's still a reality. So there's different types of necessity, right, So there's necessity and then like Leibniz speaks of necessity x hypotheside, which is a necessity. That's a different type of necessity. So Kristen five dollars. All this gay Matria talk has me requesting that you seeing seven by Prince interesting. I

am open to that. But we got to see if there is a karaoke version, and I'll have to probably all seven then will watch them fall standing away of loving We will smoke them all with an intellect and the Savoy fair, the one in the whole universe will never compare. I am yours now you are mining to get with love through space and time, So don't cry. One day all seven we'll die. How's that? I don't even need

the backups. I don't even need them coroque machines. So there is a karaoke version, but I'm afraid if I play it, see the thing. What the karaoke versions is? You never know if it's gonna ding the thing or not. For whatever reason, Mac Morrison, Return of the Mac whatever is Mark Moore what his name is? That doesn't ding the thing? So for whatever reason, you can play it forever. But a lot of these karroke versions will y'all need to go learn about the theory onsy, you can

become a birdman. Even though you can't fly, you can become a birdman. So but Kristen, if by chance the karrokee doesn't ding the thing, I'll do it on the regular because, by the way, do not get your eschatology from Prince. Okay, So even though I like Prince, we don't want to get any of our eschatological views from the crazy nonsense of Prince's seven. That's that's some heterodox madness right there arena twenty five dollars. Thank

you so much. That's a nice fat super chat. Appreciate that very much, romy five dollars. How do you know music is being used in mk ultra. How do I know music's being used? Well, I don't know that. I claimed music is being used in him Kiltra, but I do think we've talked about it before. I mean mcaultra is a vast number of studies, projects, fronts, experiments done at universities, psychiatric institutions, prisons, military institutions. I mean it's vast and they studied all kinds of stuff.

So they were interested, for example, in studying LSD that kind of stuff. Anentheagen's Gordon Wasson and his Russian wife. They were interested in sleep studies with the Harry, the psycho serial killer guy from Australia that we talked

about. Harry what's his face that did all the sleep research at the mk Ultra facility in Australia, which a big sleep institute, and he ended up killing a bunch of people because he was doing sleep experiments, putting able to uh right at the edge of death and then bringing them back, which if you watch that Netflix show what's it called The AO or whatever with that Britton Marling chick who's like in every weird like for a while there, every weird

sci fi movie had her in it, remember that the No the OA excuse me? And this would have been such a good show. It was like on the verge of being a great show. If they had not ended the season one with that stupid ass dance. I mean, this would have been one of the best TV shows of all time. Seriously, if they had not done that stupid ass dance makes me so mad. What happened to the camera? Can y'all see me? Or did it cut out? What's going on? It says, excellent connection? Did it cut out? Can y'all

see me? I can't tell it because the okay now it says it's back. Yeah, this was such a good show. And uh anyway, basically every movie she's in there's like another dimension with her in it. It's like she's in like seven movies with some weird metaphysical shit going crazy. She should She's basically like the sci fi version of Alice in Wonderland. It's like whatever movie she's in is that's what's happening. You know what I mean. Yeah, so and then what she goes into other dimensions. I mean, it's

just crazy, she goes into older diment. I actually thought it was a great show until that stupid dance scene to prevent the shooting event. I thought, I thought that was so stupid. And imagine me being really invested in the show. It wasn't that long, eight episodes maybe for the first season, and I mean it was great, Like she gets kidnapped by this mk uldra doctor and he's got her in this facility and are they going to get

out? And they're putting people to the point of death and bringing them back. It's probably been influenced by that uh serial killer in Australia. I cannot remember his name, but we've covered him multiple times now. He's actually a serial killer because he killed a bunch of these people with us. Harry it's not Harry Ball, Harry Bailey, that's him. Yeah, this is him. A bunch of people died twenty committed suicide and then he also unalived as

well when he got discovered. So basically, this dude is like the uh. I forget that British actor's name, but he's the bad guy and this guy right here in the OA, remember in the first season, So I'm trying to I cannot remember this dude's name. He's like an evil looking version of Timothy Dalton. Anyway, I don't know. We're way off course. I'm rambling now. Let's see next up Snagglebe's five dollars. Why is a raven like a writing desk? Well, it's the wordplay, right, because

both begin phonetically with rah, even though they're totally different letters. Thank you for edumacating us actly, storm the cat five dollars? Do you think Merlin would be a spy in Mare Times? H if you read the Third Space

trilogy? But by C. S. Lewis Uh. They bring Merlin back and he's like that part's funny, dude, because he's like if you remember when they bring him back and England is run by the Tavistock Technocrat Institute, right, and he's like these people are evil, people are ruling us. And Merlin's like, call the Emperor Byzantium to come help us, and he's

like they're like, bro, there's no Emperor Byzantium. And then he's like, then call the King of England. They're like he ain't gonna help, dude, trust me storm the cat five dollars do a cultus in real life use magic wands? Yeah, it's the it's a representation of the fallus. So what is their purpose? Well, the idea is that as a representation of my foul us, the magic wand uh is a thing to channel and

direct energy. So just just watch Harry Potter, bro watch, go watch Harry, because he's over there with his uh basically slinging his dingling everywhere is what it is. Then you start saying, well, how does Hermione have a have a dingaling? Exactly exactly? I'm not sure why do women? If the wand is a phallus, then what's Harmione doing over there with a dangling anyway? Ortho ka tech five dollars. A Eurocentric world is talked about

by John Ruskin and Cecil Roads. Seems like the mainstream history. Even Oswald Spangler talks about this correct exactly he does. History doesn't begin in Europe, yes, agreed. Making the Usa is a is a continuous outworking of Rome in Greek history. Yeah, that's a good point. Each country has its own history. For the experimental Enlightenment nation of America, which is intended to be that Rosa Crucian Francis Bacon, New Atlantis exactly. So we came full

circle there. Oh, by the way, I got another little side treat for y'all that will be coming up soon to do analysis of. And that is so I stumbled upon this book that I did not know was a John Lecarrey novel. So I found this book at the bookstore and I was like, this looks good, and I didn't realize that they'd already made this into a show. And perhaps some of you over the past five or six years had mentioned this to me and I forgot. I don't know, this was

pretty wild. So have you guys watched Little Drummer Girl. It's only one season and it's got freaking scars Guard and by the way, he has scars on his back, so he's literally scars guard in this show Florence Pugh and Michael Shannon, and it's all about this massade hit team operation that John Lecaray wrote about. It's fiction fiction in nineteen eighty two. And of course, as you guys know, lacar A was actual five and I six British intelligence

operative. So the lacare stories are actually real world ish spy stories, far more realistic than Bond stories. Right, even though Ian Fleming yes puts some truth in all the Bond stories. What lacar A wanted to do was be the anti Bond, right, so he wanted to make his spy stories be super realistic. And man, oh man, I was not expecting what all was in this. Now. They only made one season, which I assume tells the story of the novel, so I don't know what. Maybe they

thought there would be multiple seasons if it was a big hit. I never even heard of this, which is odd because I follow a lot of spy story fiction. But those of you in this audience who enjoy this type of material, you gotta watch this one because John Leacaara tells us a lot in this And by the way, who I don't even know of any other spy stories about massade teams. That's very rare. Now there have been more of these massade team movies of recent time. So what's what's the check from National

Treasure? Who's Nicholas Cage's wife and National Church? I just went blank? Kruman Diane Krugman, Okay, she's in a recent movie about Masad. Helen Mirren was in a recent movie about Massad, and then uh Gal Gadot is in a movie about Massad, which that makes perfect sense because I mean she was in IDF. Yes, obviously Munich. Now what's interesting is that Lacare's Little Drummer Girl takes place a few years after Munich, and this is a

Masad team that wants revenge for the Munich event. So Michael Shannon plays the Masad team handler Scarsguard is the raven, the recruit Florence Pugh, who's an actress. So how did I And by the way, the point of the novel is terror is theater and how did I not hear about this? I'm like, how did I not know about this presentation? Anyway, so we're gonna do coverage of this. I took I think three pages of notes. I watched the entire series. It's not actually that long. It's more like

a mini series. It's not a TV show. It's like five or six episodes or something. Anyway, Wow, this was like very revelatory, and the President that this version of it is excellent. It's an AMC did it. So I think what I need to do is maybe we should, Maybe we should just do an episode on Masad spy shows or something, because we haven't done that, and I don't know if I guess there's enough in this one to do a whole podcast on this if you wanted to, because it

gets pretty deep into the Israel Gaza conflict. In fact, at one point, Scarsguard's character even says the British Mandate caused all of this. That's exactly what I said on my quickly analysis. And let's see, what's that gal Gado spy movie. I can't remember the name of it. I think it's this one Heart of Stone. I think this is it. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's it. By the way, she looks so much like Jamie, It's crazy, Jamie. Are you a Massad agent? Are you a

SAD agent? You look like Galgado? Uh? I assume this is a massade story. I don't even know what this is about. She plays Rachel Stone, the only intelligence operative who stands between I mean, her global peacekeeping organization and the loss of everything valuable the asset code named Heart. Okay, I don't know. That might just be a generic spy story. Anyway.

Let's see, so the reason this is Another reason the original point of what I'm talking about here is fascinating is that this deals with the history of the PLO, and we have not actually delved much into the PLO and their history and all of this. And I'm assuming that is the predecessor to what's going on pre Hamas. Right, so before we had Hamas created in the seventies, I think by Israel, by the way we had the PLO and the way they presented PLO. And this is pretty wild. I mean, this

is this. This is an excellent series, is what I'm trying to say. But I wanted to remember exactly when he wrote this novel, because I thought this was a more recent novel. No it turns out he wrote this in nineteen freaking eighty three. And by the way, I mean, you could, like you could just read these lacar A novels and pretty much figure out how the world really works. That's what's blowing me away. And by the way, he's not I'm not saying laca A is like a bays trad

dude. He's not. In many ways. He's a contradictory figure. And probably many people from the espionage world are going to be contradictory figures. But why is he a contradictory figure, Well, because he he has this bizarre and maybe it's because he's like, is he a boomer like a little he's like an older boomer, right, He's more like a he's like the edge of boomer and greatest generation. So maybe it's because lacar A has this,

uh fixation on democracy. Right. So it's like he's got this fixation on democracy which clouds his vision on a lot of areas, and then he turns around and gets a whole bunch of other things. Correct. H. So you know when we watch a lot of these movies that are based on Lacary's stories, they're very revelatory. The Orson Wells one, right, The Spy

Who Came In from the Cold very revelatory about Cold War dialectics. The last Philip Seymour Hoffman movie with Rachel McAdams, what's it called A Something Man? I just gonent blank, also very relatory. I just I'm trying to remember that freaking I never remember that, which means it's not a very well named movie if I can never remember the name of that spy movie Most Wanted Man. That is also a Lacari story. I know, my umber la la

la. Yeah. So remember if you want movies that actually reveal how the world really works from the spy domain, I mean, yes, kind of James Bond, but those are kind of silly too, but this one is real, okay. And also it turns out Little Drummer Girl, which somehow I totally missed. But that makes me think that pretty much all of Lacari's stories are going to be relatory anyway, So we should do like a Masad edition where we take some of these Masad stories, because there's not actually a

whole lot of these. But let's see fool's hope a dollar. How do you react to the claim of Marxist that conscious man is finite in a material

phenomenological product of the senses. Well, I mean, I think we have plenty of materialist critiques on this channel, so you could search and try to find some of those, but I mean, it's a self refuting thing that you'd be the determinist fallacy of the naturalist fallacy that if a man is merely a determined emergent property of matter, which, by the way, emergent emergentism is actually intended to refute materialism, which is ironic because people like Matt Dila

Honey. This is something the FDA pointed out. People like Matt Delahunty don't even know that emergentism is a reputation of materialism in physicalism, and he tries to use emergentism as his position about consciousness, which is dumb. But I mean it's self refuting. If matter is a purely determined phenomena of causal chain, as we saw with the novel, then you could never know it because you're not knowing or learning any truth or any true things. You're actually just

discovering. What you think is a discovery is just a determined chemical process. So there is no true or false. There's just what is Adriel a five dollars I was debating with my friend. He says that time is infinite. Well, I don't know, how do you know that or how would you prove or demonstrate that time is infinite? So first of all, ask him how he knows that, and how he proves that all material possibilities have already

happened and will continue to happen forever. Okay, these are giant metaphysical leaps. Okay, So he's making all these vast metaphysical claims. So the first thing you want to do in critiquing this person is to say, whoa whoa dude? First of all, how do you know that? What does that

even mean? How do you demonstrate that these are giant leaps? He says, energy takes the path of least resistance, So all seemingly transcendent laws of the universe or energy paths taking these Again, this is all you're letting him have too much, Like he doesn't know any of that. He needs to justify these claims. These are just assertions, like grand metaphysical assertions. So call him back to the basics of how do you know any of these claims?

How do you know anything at all? First explain to me how you can have knowledge at all. Then we can talk about your magical fairy stories of scientism metaphysics here that you have anyway, Thank you guys. Be sure

also at support FDA if you are so inclined. If you're a coffee drinker, and there is the Lore Coffee link in the show description, that's an awesome orthodox company that puts out really good coffee, high quality coffee, and you can get that coffee there at the link in the show description for lore coffee. Otherwise, everybody, have a great night.