THEY Really Did THIS....John Kiriakou & Jay Dyer

of espionage. We're going to talk about history, We're going to talk about current topics. John, how are you?

but you don't actually know that guy. So there is a sort of familiarity, and of course we do have a lot of things in common let's start it off with some notes that I jotted down after listening to a lot of the recent interviews that you've done. Of course, guys, he did just appear on Tucker and I think that went up yesterday or the night. Yeah, and so be sure and check that out. John's channel is of course linked and he does his channel Deep Focus. And let's

start with something that's a little spicy. From the outset. I hear a lot of former CIA people, pro CIA people, present CIA people. They do a sort of apologetic which I understand, but they argue that the West and the CIA never really engaged in sexual espionage or that kind of operation because of the legalities that it would interfere

with and the rights that people have. Well, we hear all kinds of stories as well about Operation Midnight Climax, where this is kind of farmed out to the organized crime and this kind of stuff. And we hear about Epstein and the possible connections with various intelligence agencies throughout the world. So is it a situation where it's not on the books, but it's done kind of on the side. Can you speak to that.

You talked about Operation Midnight Climax. That's one of the more famous ones, and it's it's one of those operations that we talk about today in twenty twenty six, and you just have to shake your head and ask, semi rhetorically, what in the world were they thinking? But yeah, I mean sex. Sex was used routinely well into the late

seventies the early eighties. One of the very first questions Jay, that I asked when I joined not the CI, but when I joined Operations, which was about halfway through my CIA career, was about the use of honeypots. Right, Because when you're learning counter intelligence, you learn how the Russians use honeypots, the Israelis use honeypots. Well, what about us? And one of my instructors who became my mentor, quite a famous officer, gust Avracatis. He was played by Philip

Seymour Hoffman in the film Charlie Wilson's War. Gust told me we used sex all the time until Ronald Reagan became president. And we didn't stop because Ronald Reagan became president, but roughly that period only because it just didn't work after a while. If you really want somebody to be a source for you and to commit espionage for you over the course of you know, years that had, that relationship has to be built on a foundation of trust,

not one of coercion. And so you know, if you go up to somebody and say, listen, we set you up with a prostitute the other night and you didn't know, but we had the room wired for video and audio, and we have these pictures of you and videos, and we're going to release them to your wife, or we're going to release them to your government unless you work for us. That's not how you build trust. That's not how you build a long term relationship. And then he

told me a story. It very well could be apocryphal, but I've always believed it. And that was before the Iranian Revolution, there was an Ayatola that we wanted to recruit, and so we sent a prostitute to kind of bump him and lure him into into a hotel, and he had sex with her, and we took pictures and video and then laid it out in front of him and said we've gotcha. And he laughed and he said, I'll take that in an eight x ten and give me two five x sevens of this one. And he's like,

what's wrong with you guys? Seriously, like in the movies, you're going to try to threaten me get out of here. And it was around that operation that a decision was made that this just isn't working. If the Israelis and the Russians think it works for them, that's fine for them, but we just stopped doing it.

figure out, they seem to point in that direction. I remember somebody saying, maybe it was Andrew Bustamante on a video or something, that what he was saying something like, well, once you do this, you kind of you can never do anything with them again because they're forever gonna hate you. So you're not, like you said, building trust. It kind of kind of maybe is a last resort? Is that why they would rely on something like that for you know,

so many politicians and members of Congress? Is it Is it a last resort or at a first resort for some some countries?

is lessened. And what I mean by that is, why would you set someone up in a compromising sexual position and risk it going bad and then having that blowback on you when you can have a cutout do it. You can have Jeffrey Epstein do it. You can have a foreign intelligence service do it for you, or an organized criminal gang or something that doesn't point back to the CIA, you know, look at it this way too.

We learned so much from this latest tranch of the Epstein documents, so much, and there are still three to three and a half million pages that the President is now saying will not be released, apparently because they would

embarrass friends of his. But we now know that Jeffrey Epstein apparently was an access agent for the Israelis, but that he had also volunteered to work for the CIA, to work for the FBI, to work for the British mi I five and the British I six and the Germans, and that he had tried repeatedly to get a private one on one meeting with Vladimir Putin. He couldn't quite get the meeting, but the Russians offered a meeting with Putin and two security officials, which Epstein had turned down.

So I think that the answer to your question is most likely yes, that this is going on, that it always has gone on. And if it wasn't a direct CIA operation to use sex to gather information, it was a CIA operation to use a cutout to use sex to get information. Yeah.

And I don't mean to go too much into Hollywood and movies. My wife and I were watching Peaky grinders. That's a joke, but make fun of a guy that peaky blinders. That that was there was a situation where, you know, the British government, with my secret Sis at that time, I guess, was working with uh, you know, Killian Murphy's or Irish criminal gang, and together they're having to combat the IRA and the communists, and they're using the organized crime in some cases to do a hit.

And I remember reading in some of the books on the operation Underworld and some of the stories of you know, the Genovizi crime syndicate after World War One, that the the US intelligence apparatus at that time was even kind of making links with with organized crime. How significant and real do you believe those links were to the underground world of organized crime from the American intelligence apparatus over the decades of the twentieth century? Is it over? Is

it exaggerated? Is that something that is very important?

other examples too. I have to be careful here.

and nobody saw any irony in that. There's a famous case with a mob hitman I think he was a Colombo named Greg Scarfo, where Scarfo was recruited by the FBI to go to Mississippi to find these freedom writers, these three freedom writers Chapman, Cheney, I forget the third one's name, who had been murdered by the Ku Klux Klan, and Scarfo actually kidnapped a klansman and shot him in the knees to force him to tell him where the bodies were, and then like magic, the FBI discovers the

bodies in an earthen dam outside of town. So yeah, you go through the entire history really of the FBI and the history of the CIA, and there are lots of examples where they worked very closely with organized crime.

Sicilian mafia. And what we know is is the P two Lodge or the Propagonda du A Lodge in Italy, and this was a post World War two sort of oddly enough fascist tending a series of lodges that were able to be sources for recruitment, according to the public journalistic material that we have on the part of the CIA and other outfits to sort of again recruit from

also organized crime. We have the character Michelle Sendona, and we have the character lchio Gelli, and that ties into secret societies as well as Masonic networks things like that. Is Gladio a huge component of that post World War two alliance with the Vatican and Vatican bank structure or is this exaggerated?

public when speaking to Parliament about Operation Gladio. For your viewers who don't know what Gladio is, it was an operation hatched by the CIA, MI Six, the Vatican and NATO to leave essentially sleeper agents behind right at the end of World War Two and in the couple of years after, just in case of a Soviet invasion, so that there would be an intelligence structure in place that

could help the Western services confront the Soviets. You know, in retrospect, looking at it in twenty twenty six, it seems kind of quaint, you know, the thing of an interesting movie that might, you know, get nominated for an Academy Award or two. But back then it was deadly serious, deadly serious. We really believed the Soviets were going to invade Western Europe. We really believed it, and so people

were scrambling to create an intelligence infrastructure. Keep in mind too that the CIA and NATO weren't created until nineteen forty seven, so there was this period of about a year and a half from forty five to early forty seven, where we were just weighing it. M I six was sort of the pre eminent intelligence service in the Western world, with the KGB being the pre eminent service in the

Eastern world, and President Truman. President Truman's advisors were saying, listen, we need to be prepared for a Soviet invasion of Western Europe. And so Truman asked the British to send six officers to New York to sit with Americans and to help us create what he called a Central Intelligence Agency, a place where all foreign intelligence could be collected and analyzed, you know, just as a kind of a funny aside.

All of this ended up happening as part of what's called the National Security Act of nineteen forty seven, but as an interesting aside. Jade Grew Hoover, the long long time director of the FBI. He was the head of the FBI for forty what forty eight years. He was strongly opposed to the creation of a CIA and an NSC. The National Security Council was also created in that same

National Security Active nineteen forty seven. So he was going around Capitol Hill asking members of Commerce to vote against it. And this is exactly the opposite of what President Truman wanted. Truman got winn that that Hoover was working against passage of the bill, and so he called Hoover in and told Hoover, you've got this all wrong. This Central Intelligence Agency, it's going to be a component of the FBI. So you'll be head of the FBI and of the CIA.

And he said, oh, and he lifted his objection. It was a lie. Of course, there was never any intention for the CIA to be a division of the FBI, and Hoover never forgave Truman for lying to him. But we were scrambling in nineteen forty six and early nineteen forty seven. Finally these six officers came to New York.

They were met by Bill Donovan and Prescott Bush and a handful of other Swells from Wall Street and the Oss days, and with some you know, pads of paper, they came up with a centralized intelligence service that we called the CIA.

But in terms of like going back to Gladio real quick, you know a lot of writers conceive of this as a template something that is not just about you know, setting up networks within Europe that would stave off a Soviet NKVD style takeover, but also perhaps uh trained ter

terror cells it could be activated later on. Now we know that perhaps Gladio probably ended, but maybe other types of operations or templates that some authors I think Doug Valentine and others connect, Yeah, they connect these types of operations to the template of Iran contra training, you know, the right wing desk squads there. And also isis al Kata kinda type training that you would get, you know, under Brazenski and Carter and Gates in the late seventies

early eighties for the for the Soviet situation. Do you think that's accurate? Is that exaggerated? Is it a template that's used? One last point, I remember reading Miles Copeland's book Game of Nations, and he was discussing that in his time in Egypt and in Syria when he was a consultant to the government's there. Obviously, he says, I was working for the CIA. He says, we would use terrorists all the time. He says they're great patsies and dupes.

I'm not saying that the CIA runs every terror operation, but he says it's a very useful tool in the toolkit. Is that accurate? Is this exaggerated as well? Is it a template that's kind of a way to structure around contra isis gladiator?

respective wives. But but we shook hands and money exchanged hands and and you know, I got what I wanted and he got what he wants it and then we never saw each other again. So that's that's actually quite a common event. There's risk, of course, because you're you're dealing with people who you know, in some cases are are stone cold killers, and you need to trust them to a point where they do what you're paying them to do. The initial encounter is what's the most dangerous.

I think I have told the story. I was dealing with a with an organized crime figure overseas in the Middle East, and there was a French intelligence officer dealing with him as well. And the French intelligence officer one day was just found dead in a ditch on the side of the road, and so we had to we had to all meet like should I should I go to the next meeting? Are they going to kill me? At the next meeting. I don't know, I said, I don't think he's going to kill me. I think he

trusts me. So I go to the next meeting. It was very tense. It turned out to be our last meeting, and as I was one wocking out, he says to me, oh, by the way, and I turned and I looked at him, and he said, your French friend, very bad trade craft. And I wasn't really sure what to make of that, other than the fact that he was admitting to me that he had killed the French intelligence officer. I don't know why he didn't try to kill me, but yeah,

that kind of thing happens all the time. It's a calculated risk that you take, and you know if the gain, the potential gain is greater than the potential risk, sure you go forward and you're very happy to meet with criminals.

have this reality too of false flag events. If if we were to think back over the last say century, or the last several decades, or how many instances would you guess or if you had to do a percentage or some just speculation, right, like, do you think most major terror events have a kind of connection to a state or to some other type of entity or or is it organic?

to Israel's benefits. So I think in many many cases, yeah, there's a state behind it. And I'll add one thing. I've talked about this publicly many times, but on the night that we captured up Uzebta in March of two thousand and two, we caught him in in a safe house and vice Labad, Pakistan. One of the things that we confiscated that night was his diary, and so I was with him for the first fifty six consecutive hours of his captivity. I tied him to the hospital bed

he had surgery to treat three gunshot wounds. We shot him, the Pakistani shot him while he was trying to escape that night, and so I was so sleepy. I was afraid I was going to fall asleep and he was going to escape somehow. So I tore up a sheet, I tied him to the bed, and I'm just sitting there at the foot of the bed like this, just kind of staring at him for most of the fifty

six hours. But one of the things that we confiscated that night in the raid was his diary, and so I started leafing through the diary and it made my hair stand up. Most of it was silly, Most of it was doodles. He was an accomplished sketch artist, Like I would pay money for some of the drawings that he did.

he's extraordinarily intelligent. The CIA turned out to be correct on that he would write these letters to himself, like it was the twenty seven year old that was a beta, or the thirty year old of was a beta writing to the fourteen year old of was a beta, saying, treat our mother with respect. You were rude to her today. Don't whistle at those girls. You're a musclim Muslim, you

shouldn't whistle at girls. You know, stuff like that. But what I also saw on the in the diary were three cell phone numbers, and they were to three members of the Saudi royal family. Why in God's name would someone that we believed at the time was the number three in al Qaeda He wasn't the number three, but he was a bad guy. He had established and staffed al Qaeda's two training camps in southern Afghanistan, as well as al Qaeda's safe house in Peshawar, the House of Martyrs.

Why would he have the personal cell phone numbers of three Saudi princes. And so we went to the Saudis and we said take care of this, or we're going to take care of it, and you're not going to like the way we take care of it. The next thing, you know, one of these princes dies on the operating table during bariatric surgery. They're all fat pigs. The second prince is killed in a one car accident on the Riad to Jetta Highway, and the third prince goes camping

in the desert and dies of third. So, yeah, that tells me that the last thing they wanted was for the CIA to snatch these guys and to start interrogating them, which then, of course led me to believe that the Saudi government was involved in nine to eleven.

just made me think of this. I remember reading recently that Kissinger back in the nineteen seventies had a very important role in restructuring how the petro dollar would would function in the world, and that there was an intentional shifting away from using US oil or native oil here to put us in reliance on foreign oil like Saudi's and others, to give us then an excuse to I thought, there's a really cunning, genius sort of conspiracy plot here,

of a villain plan. So now that now we have an excuse for foreign policing because we're tied to the oil that we get from all these other countries. And we hear recently with Trump right that we've got to do all the phenol. We have to get the oil.

is at sixty dollars a barrel or lower. Okay, if it's over sixty, fracking is cost effective. It's profitable. Everybody's gonna want to do it. Okay, Well, oil is what one hundred and ten hundred and fifteen dollars a barrel right now, and we're fracking a little bit. But what are we doing with the fract oil. We're sending it to Japan. We sell all that oil to Japan. So when why would we export our own oil and import Middle Eastern oil? Because that's exactly what we do well.

We do it to maintain that tie to the Middle East. And as much as I hate Henry Kissinger, and I really do. The butcher of Cyprus, the butcher of Chile, the butcher of Cambodia. I hate Henry Kissinger. He was telling us the truth when he said that this policy, as as awful as it may seem, as calculating and cunning as it may seem, it's a reality of American foreign policy. It really is. Yeah, And let's say so, if you don't mind, Jay, I feel for just to

speak a minute about Venezuela. How does Venezuela fit in or not fit into this? Venezuela is different, it's separate. Venezuela. Venezuela's oil is is so dirty. It is so high in sulfur that it can only be refined at specialty refineries where they inject tons of chemicals to try to purify it. Even still, you can't purify it enough to turn it into gasoline. Right And these these refineries exist right now, for the most part, only in South Florida.

The Chinese built one. Recently, the Indians built one. But for the most part, the only refineries that can handle this really dark, heavy oil are in Florida, and the oil is used only for home heating oil. We talk about oil and International Oil and OPEC, of which Venezuela is a member. We have to keep Venezuela sort of off to the side because it's a different issue from a foreign policy perspective.

know system. But I do want to ask you too about briefly here because you've had such a there's so many places we could go, You've had such an adventuresome life, and I've listened to you many times till the stories of when you were stationed in Greece and you were dealing with the left, And the first thing that came to my mind was in the case of these leftist organizations at one of which I think you'll try to have you unalived, shall we say, And feel free to

rehearse that story if you'd like, because I think this audience may not have heard it. But the first thing that comes from my mind when I hear this kind of stuff is who funds these things? Like I've never even heard of this left Greek this organization that was radical left, and we always look to the money to see you know, who's funding who's pushing this? Who would fund such a thing? And why would it be Soviet? I mean, the Cold War is kind of coming to an end, Like who would be behind that?

in the Classics. He spoke Ancient Greek, he spoke modern Greek. He got a master's degree in archaeology. This guy just loved, loved, loved everything Greece. And he's named CIA station chief in Athens. So he arrives six weeks later on December twenty third, nineteen seventy five, he's invited to the US Ambassador's Christmas party. He and his wife go to the ambassador's Christmas party

in their chauffeur driven car. They have a good time by all accounts, and at the end of the party they drive back to their house in a very close and very high end suburb of Athens called Siheko. These are the days before automatic door openers or gate openers, so the driver pulls up to the gate and gets out of the car to open the gate to drive into the proper. There is a car parked directly across the street. There are three men and a woman inside

the car. We never identified the woman. Two of the men get out of the car and one of them shouts in Greek Richard Welch get out of the car. Dick gets out of the car, and Missus Welch gets out of the car. The driver runs for his life. One of the men says Richard Welch, you have been found guilty of crimes against the Greek people, and you've been sentenced to death, and then shoots him three times in the chest with a forty five caliber semi automatic

handgun that became known as the Welch forty five. They killed eighteen more people with that same gun between nineteen seventy five and two thousand and two. They then got back in the car and drove away. The Greek police were so inept that the killers had to call the cops a week ago and say, you eighty, it's the getaway car we left abandoned at the intersection of this street and that street. Go get it. In the meantime, the killers wrote a manifesto. Now this became a theme.

They would write a manifesto at almost every attack over the next twenty seven years. But this manifesto they sent to a sympathizer in Paris, and the sympathizer in Paris hand delivered it to the French philosopher Jean Paul Sartre. Sartre read it and said, what is this craziness? And he literally put it in a desk drawer and forgot about it. A year later, the former chief of the

Greek National Police, a man named Malios. He had been the chief of the Greek National Police during the military dictatorship, and he was a deeply hated torturer. He would leave his apartment every single day at the same time and buy a newspaper and go to the coffee shop and drink coffee. And this one day in April of two thousand, I'm sorry. In April of nineteen seventy six, he came

out of his apartment. There was a man and a woman there making out, and he told us later on his deathbed that he smiled when he saw them, and he thought to himself, young love in the spring. As soon as he walked past them, the man pulled out the Welch forty five and shot him three times in the back. He lived for two hours, and the description he gave of the shooter matched Missus Welch's description of the shooter in her husband's assassination. They sent another manifesto

to Jean Paul Sartre, so Sartra receives it. Actually Sartre didn't receive it. Henri Levie what's his name, Bernard Henri Levie, who is today France's most famous philosopher and poet and was Sartra's assistant at the time. He said, wait a minute, we've received something like this before, and he found the original one in the desk, and then he sent them both to Liberacion magazine or newspaper. It's the leftist newspaper in Paris. They published them that put seventeen November on

the map. Seventeen November was named after the date in nineteen seventy four when there was a student uprising at the Athens Polytechnic University where the military dictatorship, in its final death throws, opened fire with tanks on unarmed students and to hear the students tell it, killed five hundred. To hear the fascist tell it, they killed three dozen. We'll never know. They destroyed most of the bodies. But

that puts seventeen November on the map. And you ask a very very important question, where did they get the money. We just assumed in nineteen seventy five that these guys were tied to the KGB, but we had a long standing agreement with the KGB. You don't kill our guys and we don't kill your guys. We try to recruit each other's guys, but no killing. And the Russians came to us and they said, listen, this was not us.

It just was not us. And then the Bulgarians proactively came to us and said, we promised this was not us, and we can tell you it was not the Soviets. We couldn't figure out who it was, so how did they get their money, how do they sell finance? They would rob banks and post offices. Now remember these were the days when everything was done in cash, everything, and they would just rob banks and post offices in broad daylight.

And then they would raid police stations in the middle of the night, grabbed the handful of cops that were on duty, tie them up, hold them hostage, steal all of their weapons and all of their ammunition. And just to add insult to injury, there is a large military museum in Athens, right in the center of Athens. The Greeks are very proud of it. And in the nineteen eighties somebody who was a member of seventeen November went into the military museum and realized that none of the

weapons on display had been deactivated. They were all live weapons on display, rocket launchers, machine guns. So they went one day, a group of four terrorists went just as the museum opened, took everybody hostage, and then just took

all of these live weapons off the wall. And then a couple of months later they raided a military weapons depot in Ladisa in central Greece and stall all the ammunition needed for the weapons that they stole from the military museum, so they self financed, they self armed, and then there were specialty weapons that they somehow came into the possession of. And that's where I came in. I was able to identify analytically a connection between seventeen November

and Carlos the Jackal. And if your viewers don't know who Carlos the Jackal was, he was the Osama bin Laden of the nineteen seventies and eighties. He was the most feared terrorist on the planet. He was a Venezuelan communist named Iliot Ramirez Sanchez, and he went by Carlos. The media dubbed him Carlos the Jackal, loosely based on the book that led to the movie The Day of the Jackal, and Carlos provided the group with the weapons

that they needed that they couldn't steal. In two thousand, I was stationed in Greece from nineteen ninety eight to two thousand and my entire reason for being in Greece was to infiltrate and destroy seventeen November. We promised Missus Welch in nineteen seventy five we would find her husband's killers and we would bring them to justice. And we meant it. It took twenty seven years, but I took delivery of a fully armored level four armored BMW five forty.

My next door neighbor was the newly arrived British Defense Attack Stephen Saunders, Brigadier General one star. I like Stephen a lot, but he was a media whore. Anytime he saw a camera, he would run right in front of it and offer up an interview and he would just loved being on TV. We happen to be invited to a cocktail party the night of the day that I took delivery of the of the new car, and I was standing with Stephen with the American Defense and the

French Defense stache. And Stephen was making fun of me because of my new car. As I said, we lived next door to not next door, but our backyards abutted. And he says to me, you Americans, you're so paranoid about security. He said, this is an EU country, it's

a NATO country. What are you so afraid of? And everybody starts to chuckle, and I said to him, you Brits live in a dream world if you think that because they have pretty beaches and palm trees that they're not going to kill you if they have the chance. Believe me, if they have the chance, they're going to kill you. And then we all laughed again. To make a long story short, two weeks later, they killed him, and they killed him in broad daylight, during the morning rush.

They finally issued a manifesto several months afterwards in which they specifically said that they set out that morning to kill me, but that I was driving an armored car and they knew that I was armed, And it said, and so we elected to carry out the revolutionary sentence on the war criminals, Saunders.

head of the tax service. And people are like, oh, okay, well they're for the poor people. No, they're not for the poor people. It's an armed criminal gang, is all it is. So in two thousand and two, in April of two thousand and two, a man was walking in Paraeus with a paper bag like a grocery bag, carrying a bomb, and he was going to put the bomb underneath the car of a billionaire shipowner, and the bomb went off. It blew off both of his hands and

blew out his right eye. And as he was bleeding to death, a policeman runs across the street takes off his own shirt to staunch the blood squirting out of his stumps, and the guy confesses to being seventeen November's chief bomber. He names all the members of seventeen November, and he gives the address of the safe house where all the weapons are stored. And then he survived, and so the Greeks were able to arrest all of them. The three most prominent members received sentences of one thy,

seven hundred and sixty five years in prison. The only two things that the cops were never able to recover were the old school typewriter that they used to type the manifestos and the Welsh forty five. It's out there somewhere, but anyway, they were unusual in that the Soviet Union was far too liberal for them. They were old school Stalinists. They wanted Das to fall into line or face death, and they saw themselves as the ones to carry out that policy.

I don't have any theory on that. I don't ascribe to all of her theories, but there was an interesting article written by a French analyst about the possibility that there are actual hit squads and they might be considered French, but they might not actually be French. They might actually be other Middle Eastern countries that are actually behind some of these hits.

Is that what you're saying that they ca.

yet known as Carlos. Anyway, the cops raid the apartment, Carlos has already gone, and a French photojournalist took pictures of like every inch of the apartment, and it turned out that the Belgian guy was reading the book The Day of the Jackal and it was on the side table, and so the French journalist just decided to call this unnamed terrorist we didn't yet know it was Eliot Ramirez Sanchez,

to call him the Jackal. And then it just so happened that a book that was next to the Day of the Jackal was written by a Spanish I forget his name now, but his first name was Carlos, and so this French reporter just made it up out of whole cloth, Carlos the Jackal, and then we learned later. We learned later Carlos was like, where did the fuck did this name come from? I don't like this name. Why are they calling me Carlos? And what's this jackal thing?

Why are they calling me the Jackal? I'll tell you I met Carlos in two thousand. It took me over a year to get permission to see him, serving a life without pearl sentence in France for the murder of seven French policemen. I had. I had gone to see his ex wife, Magdalena cop in Germany. They share a daughter, and she dropped out of terrorism. She she had had enough and she just dropped out. She had done time

in prison. She was like enough and she quit. So I begged her to write to Carlos and tell him that that I really did need to talk to him. I wasn't going to you know, I'm not trying to get him in trouble. I only want to know about the Greeks. And it took over a year, and then, of course, yeah, the French insisted that they had to be there. So I go to Paris, I meet up with the French. We take a train. The prison was like,

I don't know, forty minutes outside of town. And we finally get into the prison to see Carlos and I said, I said, thank you for seeing me. I'm John Kiriaku. I'm from the Cia. We promised Missus Welch that we would, you know, find her husband's killers. It's been twenty five years, et cetera, et cetera. And he listened and he's nodding, and he's nodding, and I said, all I want to know is who were the Greeks. Just give us the names of the Greeks. Give us one name, just someone

that would lead me to the killers. And he goes, fuck you, And then he just got up and walked away from the you know, one of those plexiglass things. He just got up and walked away, and that was the end of it. He never gave us anything. Two years later, it didn't matter, and he's still in in prison. He'll die in prison. He's well into his seventies, now unrepentant, unapologetic.

This is a guy, for those of your viewers who don't know any of the background, this is a guy who kidnapped literally every oil minister from every OPEK country during an OPEC summit. There was no PEC summit taking place in Vienna, Austria. He and his gang raided the meeting site and they kidnapped every member of OPEK at the same time, and the Saudis paid him something like

a billion dollars to let everybody go. It was Carlos that worked with Kadafi to set up these training camps in Libya where the PFLP, the PFLPGC, the DFLP, Abu Nidal, the ira Popular Revolutionary Struggle, they all sent their people there to be trained at these camps in the desert. Carlos was the money guy, and Carlo this was the weapons guy. Carlos was working with the Romanians and the Bulgarians. You know, they were producing gigantic amounts of weapons and

ammunition and just selling them on the gray market. It was Carlos that had the relationship with the Eastern Europeans to buy the AK forty sevens and the hand grenades and the land mines and the bullets and then sell them to these groups through the Libyans. It was all very complicated and in my mind absolutely fascinating. You know, minus nine to eleven, I would have spent the rest of my career just working against these groups.

and just mow down every living thing. So he was a longtime CIA contractor. He and I worked very closely together. It was actually just the two of us in the Middle East before nine to eleven. We did this long term operation together. But anyway, he told me the most fascinating story. The details in a biography about him that his niece wrote differ a little, but the core of the story is the same. The way he told it

to me was thusie. He was assigned to the CIA station in Khartum, Soudan, and you know, it was one of those situations pre nine to eleven where you got to work seven days a week, but every once in a while, just say you don't go crazy, you have to take a day off and sleep in. So there's one day he and another guy from the station go to the vegetable market just to buy some vegetables, and he said, he's there buying vegetables and he looks over and he sees the only other white man that he

ever saw in Khartoum. And he's looking at this white guy in the vegetable market and he says to his buddy, that's Carlos the Jackal, and his friend says, the fuck out of here. He said, I'm telling you that's Carlos the Jackal, and then Carlos kind of got away in the crowd. They run back to the station. Koepfer Black who became the director of counter Terrorism and then later became Ambassador koe for Black and the chairman of Blackwater after that. Koefer was the station chief at the time,

and Billy says he ran into Kofer's office. Cooefer's on an elliptical machine in the office and he says, Kofer, I just came from the vegetable market and I saw Carlos the Jackal, and Cooepher says, get the fuck out of here, Carlos the Jackal. What in the world would Carlos be doing in Sudan of all places. You're nuts, he said, I'm telling you it was Carlos. So he says, well, we can't just cable headquarters and say Carlos the Jackals in cartoon. We need proof. You got to get a

picture of him. Billy went back to the vegetable market every single day for a month, and then he saw him again. So what they did is they paid these two Soudanese guys to get into a fist fight. And you know in Africa and the Middle East, fighting is very very rare. So two guys start duking it out,

a big circle forms around them. Everybody wants to get a look, and so that's what happens, and Carlos, kind of a little guy, he runs over to get a look, and he's kind of creating his neck to see, you know, who's fighting, what's going on, And Billy's there just going click click click click click click click click click click click. They send the film back to headquarters and they said,

oh my god, it's Carlos the Jackal. But he had the presence of mind after the fight to follow Carlos discreetly to his house, so they were able to identify the house. They initiated an operation where Carlos was deemed was made to be unconscious temporarily, and when Carlos woke up, he was on a French military plane on the way to Paris and he's been he's been in prison ever since.

an African American guy named Ron Stewart. He was just doing his laundry. They shot him and killed him in the laundry room of his apartment building. And the Greek public hated that too because he was black. They're like, come on, this man's oppressed in his own country, and that's the guy that you kill. So it was because they were actively targeting Americans that we went after them like we did.

during the Cold War. We think about Robert Maxwell, we think about an arm and Hammer, we think about some people have theorized Lord Victor Rothschaw was not just British intelligence, but might have also been passing intelligence to the Soviets.

deep state is able to justify its budgets. This isn't anything that's new. It's been going on for more than a century. Sure, you have to rally Americans against something, you.

this week or last week. Excuse me, with the case that they're going to put against the SBLC of you know, sending significant amounts of money to people heading up these obviously fake cutout groups, the ridiculous groups, but also the head of the guy, you know, the Unite the Right guy at Charlottesville that I think many of us thought, even at the time, this is kind of a silly, kind of honey trap type of situation, and it would be really foolish, I think, to be involved in that

kind of stuff, and perhaps even similar situations with J six, although I don't think that's come up yet in the case of SBLC, but a similar kind of template of fomenting, hyping up, causing funding the opposition in not every case,

but in many cases. And that's why think, you know, not many people really talk about this in regard to the Cold War, that we might have had very wealthy people in the West and perhaps banking elites who wanted to put money into communism, socialism, and perhaps even fascism too. According to Sutton, because as you said, it justifies a lot of what we do, and there's a lot of resource extraction. There's a lot of geopolitical tactical you know, bases that can be set up and you exposed by

the way. I want to say, maybe I'm not right about this, but I remember years ago in the two thousands, when I was trying to really study all of this stuff in depth. I remember seeing all of a sudden articles popping up maybe two thousand and eight, nine, ten, eleven, Cia black sites exposed. They're in the new Suddenly we've got this place in Romania, this black site. I think people probably thought that these things existed, but then suddenly we knew that they did exist. And you called a

lot of that out. That's why you got persecuted. Could you explain, perhaps to those that are not familiar with your story. Well, and I think you're a hero for what you did. Why, yeah, why why call this out? Why are we doing this? What's the justification from the establishment's perspective.

talk about how you support human rights. So we're gonna have to either pick one or the other. And I came down on the side of law and order. I mean, I hate to sound like an ideologue, but I came down the side of, you know, the rule of law. There was a I blew the whistle on the CIA's torture program in December of two thousand and seven, and

I said three things. I said the CIA was torturing its prisoners, that torture was official US government policy, and that the policy had been personally approved by the President. And I was prosecuted for that. I wish that I had blown the whistle on the secret prison program. There was a woman, she was a a contemporary mind at the agency, and I respected her deeply. She swears that she was not the one who blew the whistle, so

I won't use her name. But she was working at the White House right after, right around the time I got arrested, and she was escorted out of the White House by the Secret Service, and they took her badge and told her never to come back, and then she was forcibly retired from the CIA. They said they leaked that she had blown the whistle on the well. They didn't say blow the whistle, that she had leaked information

about the existence of the secret prisons. She swore that it wasn't her, and in private conversations she swore to me that it wasn't her. And I said, well, if it was you, then you are one of the great heroes of the early part of the twenty first century, And she swore it wasn't her. But I don't know. I was just one of those guys that believed that we were the good guys, and if we're the good guys, then we have to act like the good guys. If you want to be for torture, you can be for torture,

but you have to change the law. You can't just pretend that the law doesn't exist, or that because you're the good guy, it doesn't exist for you, that nobody else can torture but you can. And so I said, no, enough is enough, And I said something.

these legalities, which you mentioned quite often in interviews. You mentioned, for example, Tucker that you know certain people in the agency couldn't have public support for this or that candidate Bob Dole or whoever. But at the same time, we've got this situation where we've got to go in other countries and do illegal things under the cover of legality.

How do you balance that as you're going through that and then make the sort of conscious decision to say, well, in this case, now the torture program is I'm not defending it. I'm just saying, like, I'm curious as to your process as you're working through these issues.

lie to everybody's lying all day long. You know the old cliche, how do you know when a CIA officer is lying, his lips are moving. So yeah, I believe that. You know, we go overseas and we lie, we commit espionage, We convince other people to commit espionage or to convince it to commit treason for us, because we're the good guys.

But then when we're violating the Federal Torture Act of nineteen forty six, when re violating the United Nations Convention against Torture, which we wrote and has the force of law because it was ratified by the United States Senate. Nobody ever said we could violate the law in the United States. You know, if I go overseas I'm going to use nineteen forty nine as an example. If I go overseas and I receive a cable saying, hey, listen, the polls say that the Communists are going to win

the Italian election. So steal the election for the Conservatives. I'd say, okay, And then I spend one hundred and fifty thousand dollars recruiting journalists and planting stories, and then what do you know, the Communists lose. Well, I would sleep very well that night because I'm the good guy and the Communists are the bad guys. And so I

did what my job is. But if the order is to overthrow the American government or to influence an American election or torture someone in violation of American law, absolutely never, never, because then we're not the good guy anymore. Like did we learn nothing over the course of all these decades? Did we learn nothing from Watergate? For example? Nothing from Iran Contra? So you got to put your foot down.

and it does crazy shit. And we've heard that the Russians are developing expertise in mind control and ESP and what they called remote viewing and all this silliness that never came to pass. So we got to do the same thing. Because the Russians are doing it. In fact, the Russians weren't doing it. The Chinese were doing it, but we didn't have sources in China at the time. So you're in this meeting and a determination is made that yes.

in let's say San Francisco. And then they go to San Francisco and they did a whole bunch of horrible illegal shit in San Francisco, things like they recruited an army of prostitutes, and they set up a safe house in San Francisco and they said, go out and pick up a date, bring him back to the safe house. We're going to dose them with LSD and then we're going to see if he'll give us his most deeply held secrets under the LSD. All it did was it just made people crazy. Then they said, you know what,

maybe we should do something different. We should develop a germ. Develop a germ and will just release it into the air and see if it makes people sick. So they developed this germ. They waited until an unusually foggy day in San Francisco, and then they just drive around town in these pickup trucks with pipes, releasing the germ into the fog. They knew it was successful when a week later, eleven people had gone to hospital emergency rooms with this

really rare upper respiratory infection that we coused. Then they decided what it would be like. They wanted to know what it would be like if they could make like everybody in a town crazy, And so they put LSD in the flower that was supplied to the only bakery in a little village in France. The hapless baker, who had no idea that the flower was full of LSD, made bread that day like he did every day, sold the bread to everybody in the village. Everybody in the

village went nuts. There's even a Wikipedia page about this that's the CIA. All of that was illegal. Now, this was also very very secret, top secret until nineteen seventy five. The Church Committee on Capitol Hill, the Church Committee on the Senate side, and the Pike Committee on the House side, developed this information and they called the CIA's leadership to

come and testify under oath in public hearings. M k Ultra was outed, and the Director of Central Intelligence, Dick Helms, Richard Helmes, was specifically told by Senator Church, don't destroy the documents. He went back to the agency and told them destroy all the doc documents. They destroyed eighty five percent of the documents on mk ULTRA. So what we know today about m k Eltra comes from the fifteen percent of the documents that survived the giant, you know, destruction.

And that's why we don't have answers to so many of these questions. Dick Helms was held in contempt of Congress and he was fined a few hundred dollars. And then when he got back to the agency after having taken a plea and having been fined, there was a parade of CIA employees standing in the hallway leading to his office, each one throwing in cash into a hat to pay his fine. They all looked out for each other.

haven't heard it yet. You know, lately the government is seeming to give a nod at many levels to so called aliens and UFOs. I personally do not believe in aliens, but we do have a lot of bizarre stories and instances and advanced technology that seems to perhaps mirror mimic

some of these UFO phenomena. I'm curious at what you think about that, because when I hear about aliens and UFOs and these stories, there could be something speritial going on, for sure, but it also reminds me of what happens

if you have a bad LSD trip. So yeah, And on that topic of mk Ultra, it makes me wonder if you know, there couldn't be And I think there's definitely a you know, a deep state component to the UFO alien phenomenon, but also specifically in the descriptions of what people go through and how they describe these experiences. Do you think that there's any likelihood that this is sort of a propagated, intentional perhaps mythology or idea that's being seated or planted that we are now under some

sort of a you know, alien attack. Maybe you think that the phenomena is real. I don't know your view. Could there be an mk Ultra I know it's defunct, but something akin to that that overlaps with the UFO alien phenomenon.

it's probably some top secret you know thing. On my very first day at the CIA, I had lunch with my new boss and I said, half jokingly, so where are the aliens? And he laughed and he said that is the first question that every single one of us has on his first day. And I said, so, what's the answer. And he said, we don't do any of that stuff. It's all at the Pentagon. He said, I have no idea what they are where they are. Nobody here does. It's all at the Pentagon. With that said,

I've told this story before, but I'll repeat it. When I was in high school, my mom and dad bought a restaurant in Sharon, Pennsylvania. We lived in Newcastle, Pennsylvania, so they're about fifteen miles apart. And to go from Newcastle to Sharon you have to go through Amish Country, and the Amish don't use electricity, so it's very, very dark. One Friday night, my dad and I left the house because we were working midnight shift. We always work midnight

shift on Fridays and Saturdays. And we're driving through Amish Country and there is this brilliant, like blinding flash of white light, and then there's a second flash, and then a third flash. And we're both looking up at this thing, like what is that? And then this orange trapezoid lights up and it's just hovering about fifteen hundred feet off the ground in the shape of, I hate to say it, in the shape of a saucer. And I said, what is that? My dad pulls the car over, we get

out of the car. We're standing there staring at this thing. A guy pulls up behind us, gets out of his car and he goes, what is that? And my dad said, I don't know, And then it goes at this fantastic speed that just defies defied the laws of physics, never made any sound. We stood there for at least another thirty seconds, thinking is it going to come back or what? I don't know. So we get back in the car and I said to him, mind you, I was seventeen

at the time, so I didn't know any better. I said, so, should we like call somebody, should we call the cops or something? And he said, and say, what we saw a flying saucer and it flew away. He said, people are going to think we're insane. And so the only person I told was my mom The next day, well years later, like not years later, A couple of years later, I come to school here in Washington. I had a cousin who was an fifteen pilot, and I always looked up to him because he was older than me, and

you know, he's a pilot and he's so cool. And I said to him, hey, listen, my dad and I saw this crazy thing once a couple of years ago, and I told him and he said, oh, listen, he said, every one of us at the Air Force, he said, we all see shit like that all the time. And sometimes they come up out of the water off the coast of Norfolk. I said, what are they? He said, I don't know, he said, but they very well could be ours. It's just that, he said, I'm not cleared

to know what it is. I don't know what the heck it is. I said, well, what do you do when you see something like that? He said, We fill out a form, we send it to the Pentagon, and nobody ever hears about it again. So I don't know. I've never seen, you know, little Green Man or anything like that. I wondered too, if, on the one hand, I lean in the direction of some kind of futuristic

advanced technology, right that's being experimented with. On the other hand, I wonder if, let's say it is something extra terrestrial, the government all these years hasn't wanted to panic us. Okay, well guess what now. All this video has been leaked from the Pentagon over the last five years and nobody cares, and there hasn't been any panic, So why not just come out with it now and tell us what it is?

Gordon Thomas wrote a fascinating book about Masade called Gideon Spies many years ago, who's a journalist, and several chapters are related to the Vatican and the Cold War and the Particularly the chapter on John Paul the Second was interesting because there were significant advancements that Israel was able to achieve in terms of recognition and influence through John Paul the Second. On record, I don't think that's anything

too controversial. There's a chapter he discussed, for example, the Vatican becoming hip to the Masaude wanting to and trying to bug the Vatican. And then I noticed, you know, it's if you look at the dates. Not too long after that, John Paul the Second did recognize the nation state of Israel as a political entity, which the Vatican had not done for many decades, and that to me is a window into the possibility of a backdoor connection

or influence there. That might be pretty significant geopolitically speaking, because you do have the Roman Catholic Church taking some pretty significant advances in terms of changing their attitudes towards the Nation sid of Israel, rebidding Judaism in the last several decades post Vatican too. I'm curious to what degree do you think that is a window into a a influenced campaign. Is it significant? Do you think that's plausible?

And also, uh, there also seems to be significant admissions in that book and other books as well related to Gladio that the CIA had a really close connection and perhaps even more than a connection, perhaps people on the hook to what the CIA wanted throughout the Cold War in regards to the Vatican. Yeah, was that a trap to basically sort of have soft power influence through the Vatican.

got with the Soviets. So yeah, I think I think that that was the case. John Paul, go ahead, I'm sorry, go ahead, I.

And I just I suspect and I wonder. I know that Leo has has opposed you know, Trump in recent months. And then there was this meeting where Cardinal Christoph back in January, was at you know, the White House, and there was these tense words supposedly said, and there's this story that they reminded Cardinal Christophe and Leo of the Avigne and papacy and the power that the state can have.

And I'm just to me, I just thought that was a fascinating window into perhaps what's going on with not just the deep State, but the deep Church and perhaps an influenza in that structure.

And it's funny. It was a book that that nobody really paid any attention to until the Cold War got really hot, and then somebody at the CIA said, we've got to smuggle this into the Soviet Union. How do you do that? Well, we can do it by asking

the Vatican to do it for us, you know. So the Russians were all over the American book tent at the International Book Fair, not paying any attention at all to the Vatican book tent, And every time a Soviet citizen would come to the Vatican tent, they'd say, hey, you want to go in the back room. There's a back room. You're going to want to go back there, And then they had all these copies of Doctor Zevago

in Russian. It got to the point where people would would tear out like ten pages at a time and just tape them around their legs and then just you know, re enter the Soviet Union with the book taped around their legs, ten pages at a time, collate the pages again, and then pass it around to their friends.

the CIA care about Doctor Zevaga? What is that going to do in the Soviet Union? Who cares about that? Why would they do that?

to see if he can find something. Maybe it's not I don't remember. Does that still go on in terms of I know there's number stations sort of putting out those codes and whatnot. Is that still happening at that type of a level. Okay?

that for Christmas. When I was sixteen, I told them. I wanted to be a spy in the Middle East, and I meant it, and I became a spy in the Middle East. Well my dad. When I was nine, my dad took me to an auction at one of these one of these local farms. We lived in a very rural area, and at the end of the auction, all the junk that didn't sell they just threw into one box, and my dad got the box for fifty

cents and it included a shortwave radio. So that night we put some batteries in this thing and I listened to an AM station. It was WGN in Chicago, and I remember thinking, Wow, I'm in Newcastle, Pennsylvania, and I can hear a station in Chicago, because you know, when the sun goes down, AM stations go on augmented power, and if you're a fifty thousand watt station, you can be picked up as much as fifteen hundred miles away.

So I was getting Chicago and New York and Boston and Atlanta and Dallas a couple a couple of times. The next night I switched it to shortwave, just to see if I can get this on AM. What about this shortwave? And I got BBC and Radio Moscow and Radio Havana and all different kinds of things. Well, one of the things that I heard that night and many many nights after that, was just a man's voice saying eight three six.

to probably just switched to his audio again. Guys, I will go ahead and read a couple of super chats while he works on that here, and we've got several so in the last twenty minutes, maybe it's it's a good time to shift over to super chats. You guys did ask him a lot of questions, so I'll try to make it accessible and quick. We lost him, but he'll be right back.

will change with every message. So I mentioned this on the podcast the other day, and the other case officer he said, oh, listen, he said, I still listened to shortwave, and I can tell you that a week ago I heard a guy reciting one time pad numbers. So it's some Russian spy somewhere in the United States and he's reading from his one time pad. Yeah.

because we've got quite a few coming in. Hush Chown says, Jay, you look like Clavicular. You're Jay Vicular good one. Albert Smith five dollars, Jay, you've got another sad hair day. Well, I didn't want to look too silly talking to John Kiriaku, so I just went with I don't know Rob Thomas from Mashbox twenty mixed with James Bond, So roll stake ten dollars. Jay, you're researching topics, but you're muted. Okay, we unmuted Reckon five dollars, bro in case you didn't

know you're live. I know JML fifteen dollars. Why are so many XCIA in US politics? And what about the Democratic Party? Say Governor Virginia. Can we trust any of these people? John, No, we can't trust answer.

and he ran for congress. Eddie won. Here's a guy who's half black, half white, and he wins three times in a Supreme Court mandated majority Hispanic district. That's how honest and popular he was. And then he decided, this is all bullshit, it's all posturing, no real work gets done. I'm going to quit and run for president. He runs for president for about fifteen minutes, when a year two years ago, he dropped out before the primaries even began.

And the last I heard, he was on the board of directors at Open AI, making millions and millions and millions of dollars. So it worked out for him. But you know, people like Alyssa Slotkin and Abby Spamberger, it's all about the power. Listen, Abby. Even at the agency, Abby, Abby was known as somebody who wasn't going to be around long because she needed she needed time to win election to different offices so that she could run for president.

That's what that's what it's all about. Melissa Slutkin's exactly the same way. The idea is that automatically they're both attractive candidates for vice president, and then the next time when it's their turn, they run for president. It's all about power.

never change with the politicians that come and go. For example, our foreign policy seems to be dictated by Israel for many, many decades. Yes, what is the real level of power you could say for these types of supra governmental entities, these steering committee CFR, trilateral or APAC you know as a lobby group, or perhaps beyond that, something beyond apack a mega groups, something like that. What's the real power structure? John?

Berg or any of them, it's all about weapon sales. Yes, the built Clinton's and the Bill Gates of the world and the you know, prime ministers of this country in that country. They're all talking about the big overarching global issues and economies and stuff like that. Yes, but at the end of the day, it all comes down to which defense contractor made what deal at every one of these conferences.

sympathize with Islam. Look up Kuwait and the response to Philippine legal challenges after twenty eighteen and the unliving of Joanna Dima Felis and the twenty nineteen unaliving of Jenna Janelle Villa Vinde. I don't know anything about that, No, nor do I. Poncho twenty dollars, Thank you so much, Container fifty dollars, Jay, What does John and he did mention this earlier. What does John think about SRI and CIA programs studying remote viewing?

He's a Swedish prime mission. In nineteen eighties, assassinate was assassinated, probably by a Gladio cell. There was a ci operation called Red Sox where they had tiny mustache men followers in the Ukraine and this was part of the Midon coup. Interesting, I had not heard.

get to the goal. Also subscribed to John absolutely. His channel is linked in the show description and I will link him in the title.

soon is? The Georgian meal.

I'm joking, Jude says, for five dollars. To clarify my last question, I want to know, can John talk about what was going on at his time in the Middle East. That's a broad question.

the same time. Though, the First Intifada began while I was in Bahrain and got pretty ugly, like really ugly. I mean, people died, others were executed. It was it was nasty. I went into Quait City with the Marines on Liberation Day back in ninety one and then you know, nine to eleven, and yeah, it was kind of crazy.

right through the polygraph exam. More importantly is most of them go on these missions when they're eighteen or nineteen years old, and they go to bring them young to the mission center, and they learn how to speak these funky languages that nobody else speaks, Uzbek, Tajik, pash To, these African languages, and so they arrive on the job already fluent in these languages, and they can be sent operationally immediately overseas. So the Agency and the Bureau just love Mormons.

representation there, so she covered Cyprus as well. And then she said to me one day, hey, Archbishop Cristodolos is going to come to Bahrain and he wants to meet with the Emir. We're going to have all all of the Orthodox, the Greeks and the Cypriots go with him to see the Amir. The Amir was surprised to see me. He had no idea. I mean, there was no reason

why he would have known that I was Orthodox. And we had the meeting and then he pulls me aside and he says to me, he whispers, I like your Ayatola. He said, your Imam. He said, I like your Imam. I trust him, and I said, he likes you, your Highness. Next thing, you know, the Amir donates a giant plot of land, it was like two acres, and we built the first ever Greek Orthodox church or the first ever

Orthodox church in Bahrain. It was very very generous. In Kuwait there were already Orthodox churches, Antiochian and Armenian, and then later on, toward the end of the nineties, they built an Antiochian church in Doha. I was in Dubai a few weeks ago, and there are churches in both Dubai and Abu Dhabi. I don't think there's anything in Muscat, and absolutely, absolutely positively nothing in Saudi Arabia anywhere you'll

lose your head. But things were going pretty well from the Antiochians when I was living there.

is they just went around the EEOC. What they do now is if you are within three years of retirement and you're a senior operations officer, they'll send you back to your alma mater to teach some innocuous course. A buddy of mine right now is teaching a course at Indiana University called Espionage in Soviet Literature. Nobody gives a shit about espionage and Soviet literature. The whole point of the class is for people to come up to him after class and say, Hey, I'd really like to join

the CIA. And then he says, let me introduce you to a friend of mine. That's what it's for now.

this job is just not for me. He said, I don't have it in my gut to convince somebody to commit treason. He said, I just can't do it. But he was unmarried, no kids. I said, what are you going to do? He said, I'm going to go to Hollywood and find my fortune. And he published a very highly regarded novel that was heavily redacted because it was so true to life, and then immediately created The Americans and never has to work again a day in his life.

thank you so much. I'm honored to speak with you and so proud of your work and what you're doing and seeing you all over all these podcasts and great episode. I'll Tucker by the.

does wig up boomer? Maxon, Come on, dude, you talking about me or talking about John. John might actually be gen X.

up again. Night Fire says were twenty dollars years ago. When I was driving later night, someone I know took a right turn on a street. They ended up on another street and that would have been thirty minutes away. Is that wormhole technology? Maybe your friend was just high as hell and he just sort of like drove around and got you know, lost. That's more likely than a wormhole poor free twenty dollars. Do intelligence agencies talk or

care about macroeconomic monetary policy? Absolutely? I mean I would say they care about that because there are many academics and economists that work for intelligence agencies. Do they care about the actions of the Federal Reserve. I'm sure that they watch them and note them and track them. What topics are good for lay people to study to better position themselves in the world. Well, if you mean my natarily, because you're talking about money, money policy. Guess what. My

Bitcoin News podcast just went up. We did this I think last week. And this is our buddy here who Rob Wallace, who just did a great interview with me. Let me see if I can pull that up here on window capture since we had collab cam up.

what's going on when hummus? I heard it's not good you talking about eating hummus. I mean I eat hummus every now and then. I have not heard that it's bad for you, though. Enlighten me. I guess you're asking about Middle Eastern foods, y'all. What y'all are on? Mah Mountain Walk? Ten dollars? Who is this?

now he's mega Alkazam. Mountain Walk five dollars. I feel like I'm exploiting the system. I'm ship posting in Jay's superchats and then I drink beer for the Texas Rattlesnake. Oh hell yeah. May y'all go on full schitzo in the chat when we got an esteemed guest trying to embarrass me in the chat with these dumb ass super chets. I love you mountain Walk, but they're still dumb as super jets get wrecked two dollars. How do I forgive

the justice system? As an orthodox Christian? Forgive the justice system? You don't forgive systems. You forgive people individually, poor free five dollars, secret Asian peptie, and we did that. Mountain Walk five dollars. Get John to stop freaking me out about flying saucers. It's not aliens. The alternative hypothesis is disturbing Mountain Walk asking about high jump Jude. Okay, I'm sorry I missed that question there, Jude, but I did get in and there at the end he says for

twenty dollars about the antiochin church craftsmen five dollars. How do we know he isn't running a mission talking to Jay? What if he's trying to take down our bipoc queen Well, John has been on like a thousand podcasts in the last few months, so I mean, I doubt that I'm high up on the mission targeting there. He's if he's on every frigate, but I mean he's on Tucker, He's on Danny Jones, He's on Rogan, He's on every podcast. So you know, you guys are being paranoid. Mountain Walk

ten dollars, I'm pro THEO or ten dollars. What are your favorite psychology books. I'm not a psychology master. I mean I have some big, fat, you know history of psychology. I've got some you know, Carl Young books. We lectured through Carl Jung here on my channel. I've read some kind of basic bitch psychology texts and psychiatric texts. We did that one switching time on MPD D I D. We've done Colin Ross's books, h Osir's Complex. I have a talk on OSI's complex from about ten years ago,

so those would probably be my offering. Young Cobb five dollars ask him about boyd to skull and gang stalking again. You guys are going full skitzo here, poor free five dollars. J for President. I don't want to be president, dude. Presidents are all compromised, and just you become president, you come out eight your aged twenty years for four years right, four years? Trans you give away twenty years of your life. You look like a dang senior citizen when you come

out of being a president. Inchoirer goose five dollars. How do we get enormies at work and our social groups to open their eyes to the things that you guys are talking about without thinking them we're crazy. Gonna be honest with your dog, You're probably not gonna get them open to the stuff we're talking about. This is niche subject matter for nerds, but chad nerds and everybody in

our audience is of course a chad nerd. And that's why you need to head on over to our sponsor, which is chalk dot com, the best in supplementation for chad nerds on the internet. This is workout adjacent. Are not Ppe pills, so don't get mad at me. This is workout adjacent. We want you to get your toxic masculinity levels up, get in the gym, get fit, get active, and you do that through using promo code J sixty life.

That's Jay six zero lv JA sixty life to get the best supplements on the internet, including that tongkat Alee, which is my favorite, proven to boost testosterone dog tongkat Alie. Get on over there and get that, de says for fifteen dollars Kurayaku die Er twenty twenty eight, We're gonna set up orthodox theocracy. I don't think that's going to happen, but I appreciate this sentiment. Did John struggle to adjust after leaving the CIA going to everyday life as a civilian?

Can he tell the truth? I will try to have John back on. We'll ask some of these questions. I'm sure he has answered that question in other podcasts. Brandon Lee ten dollars bas On experience was the biggest threat to our country in the coming decade. I think he thinks is probably other nations. He mentioned China as a greater threat than Rush to Tucker, not Iran, So I think John probably said those things. But we'll we'll try

to answer it. We'll ask him some of these questions if we can get him back on in the future. Mountain Walk. I'm sorry for all these questions and my autism to day. It's okay. You sound like you're drunk dog. That's all right, Daniel five dollars. I don't. I'm not dissing you. I'm just saying like it sounds like you're talking about drinking beer at Texas, saluting Texas with your beer steins, Daniel five dollars. Does American and jim any prevent stability in Latin America? Do you have any books

on this? There are quite a few books on I mean most of William ing f William ing Doll's books cover this. Peter Dale Scott has a book called Cocaine Politics, and those deal with Latin South America. So I think that that definitely plays a role. But I'm not an expert when it comes to Latin South American stuff. Papist Gavin Or Bland twenty dollars a day. I love you. You're finally getting on platforms. Now I get to binge all my favorite topics. Thank you. W Milder ten dollars.

Question for you, is Angela Merkell one of the worst EU leaders after nineteen forty five. I'm a fan of both of you guys. I don't know what John would say about Angela Merkele. I think she's terrible. Absolutely, She's a total puppet, contributing to the destruction of that country. Anonymous five dollars crisis resident is I saw you at Pasca. That was cool. I locked into the military for four years after twenty twenty seven as an officer. Do you have any advice? I'm an inquirer. I mean I didn't

go to the military route. I don't that's the kind of advice I would say that you should take to your spiritual father, because you know, I never went that route as I'm a civilian, so I don't know that I could advise you on your military choice. JV. John, This is an amazing interview. We did that one making sure I didn't miss you guys because I was kind. I was having to scroll past some of them because we had limited time. Okay, I think we got most

of those. Daniel sett No, we did, Daniel, all right, let's see over here, Dill Weed, where'd it go? You get? John kiriaku On. You guys are asking about hummus and end times, retard eschatology, like guys, you had you had a limited time, you could have asked a very prominent person some serious questions. You guys are asking about uh vitamins and minerals and just crazy shit. Y'all trying to embarrass me. Ant and Rodriguez ten dollars. You'll cut free.

I don't get a haircut, dog. Your cut is fresh. You need a wigger cut. I'm growing it out a little bit, not long, but I'm just gonna have a little bit of shaggy hair. Jamie requested a little bit of shag, so we're going to see what the shag looks like. I might be too. I don't know. It might not be cool enough for shaggy hair. We'll see if it looks dumb, I'll cut it non fake blake twenty dollars. I'm always I've always been a fan of you. Both.

You have expertise and insights. I'm a cradle Greek orthodox I mentioned in geopolitics. This discussion is like the Super Bowl for me. I don't know what to say about Chris osin st and thank you both well. Hey appreciate that christ is risen. Jonathan Kelly twenty dollars, John, have you looked into orthodox prophecies about current state of geopolitics? We'll try to ask him that next time. Diyl Weed twenty dollars. Does the nineteen thirty four business plot or

Wall Street putsch lead to anything? To anything? Because Smedley Butler made it sound important to the press, but JP Morgan and the other conspirators did not get punished for it. Great question. I don't know a lot about that. I mean, I'm familiar with the overall smelly Butler critique and thesis, but that's a great question. I don't know. JB. Pelt A twenty dollars. This is a fascinating discussion. Guys, thank you so much. Hit like share, be sure and also

support us through the books. Subscribe to John his channel is linked in the chat and everybody, I will see you soon on a livestream soon again, go watch the bitcoin interview that we did here. Great bitcoin podcast at Bitcoin News. I tried to encapsulate the strongest arguments in case for bitcoin within about thirty minutes, so you can check that out right there. Be sure and follow Rob Wallace and Bitcoin News. Very cool, dude, Thank you to Orthodox.

Now we had a great conversation a bitcoin from an Worthox perspective. It's BROSI five dollars get Jamie to corn Road as shit if they get long enough. If they get long enough, I'll do it. You know what I'm saying. Yes, you can follow John a Deep Focus. But also John will have a new channel focusing on his new podcast, so be sure and follow that. The podcast that we did on his RT Deep State show is also available on the clip channels. I may just go ahead and

upload that since it's already everywhere. People put it up everywhere. Guys, everybody, have a great night. Share this interview, Clip the heck out of this interview. As you guys know, I encourage you all to freely clip away. You don't have to ask for permission. Just link back to the original channel is the only requirement. If you want to clip me, feel free to do it. I don't care. And also in this case,