Most of the people in the intimate circles of Epstein were basically Democrats.
He's in Ukraine a month before Zelenski comes to power.
He had those emails between Epstein and Bill Gates about pandemic simulations in twenty seventeen. This even ties into the Vatican right because Epstein several times went to the Vatican, especially under Ron Paul the Second or appears to obviously be a massad connection. And as soon as Trump decided to do preemptive Iran strikes, everybody forgot about it.
Ah boy, I mean, how deep do you think the rock goes?
Governments?
Nation states have been brought down just from sexpionized Rothschild set up earlier with his lane's dad, Robert Maxwell, who was himself an Israeli intelligence opera British intelligence operator, and he taught Epstein a lot of those techniques, and then Epstein was recruited into working for David Rockefeller.
Jeffrey Epstein's kind of like the tip of the Iceland. He's the name that people know, he's the face that people recognize. But I would assume that Jeffrey Epstein was not the only Jeffrey Epstein type character.
Sure in operation the images of Epstein and powerful people with what appeared to be very young, underage and children. A lot of that was also blocked out. The best way to understand Epstein is in my view as a.
All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Real Talk with Zoobie podcast. On today's episode, We've got on a long awaited guest. He is an author, he is the host of the Alex Jones Show, and he is a writer for the Sam Hid Show. And this is the one and only Jay Dyer. Welcome to the show.
What's up, Zube.
Great to be here with you, Glad to finally connect and know we've been trying to make a chat happen for a few months, maybe a couple of.
Years, even I don't know, but glad to be here with you finally. Jay.
I'm sure a lot of my listeners are familiar with you, but for those who aren't, just give us a little intro.
I've been doing online stuff in terms of alternative media probably for about fifteen years, started as a pod caster and then branched out into writing books and doing a lot of video stuff live streams. Working with Alex Jones for the last six years and then linked up with a lot of comedians, doing a lot of comedian podcasts and write for Sam High.
But we do a lot of debates as well.
So I just did a debate last night with a black keeper Israelite cult leader. I've debated a lot of the top Muslims and atheists, so we do that as well, and then do a lot of geopolitical analysis, a lot of deep historical research. I wrote three books on Hollywood and Hollywood symbolism. So my third book at Tricli with three is out, So that's I cover a whole miasma of topics. And yeah, I'm glad to glad to be talking to Epstein with you.
We're definitely going to go deep on the Epstein files because I know that you have been really looking into that and it seems like a topic that's kind of gone out of the news headlines with everything that's going on in the world. But I think it's important that people remain focused to some degree, and we have you
find out what's going on here. But before we talk about that, just one more question I'm curious about your background is how did you even get into this whole world of talking about the things you talk about in writing, the kind of stuff you're write.
Well, I mean, I always love movies.
So when I was in high school, I wanted to be involved in some capacity in media. I was kind of a I was a theater kid, but heterosexual America, so most theater kids or not. But so I wanted to do you know, that kind of stuff entertainment, and wrote a stand up routine.
When I was eighteen.
I went and did it at a bunch of clubs, and I really liked it. But I was also torn because I was really interested in kind of intellectual topics. So I went to college and did an undergraduate in philosophy, and then I did two years of grad work on a master's in philosophy and English. So I wanted to tie the research that I was doing in the academic realm into sort of the other topics that I was covering,
like movies and Hollywood, and I started blogging. I wrote a whole bunch of essays over the years, which became the books, and then around i'd say twenty sixteen seventeen, we did a full.
Production TV show. It's still out there. You can watch.
It's called Hollywood Decoded and that was an analysis of a bunch of movies from the kind of unique perspective that I that I have on film, and that led to a book or another book, and then that led to you know, working with Alex and other people, and then kind of branching out.
And doing comedy. So it's just kind of a thing that snowball.
But ideologically what piqued my interest was I watched Alex back in I think two thousand and three. He did a bunch of reports that I just happened to see on a random website when I was a kid.
He was doing.
Reports about skulling bones and the CIA and the relationship between these two entities and how that tied into kind of the way intelligence agencies, you know, engage in the various activities. So that led me, you know, kind of into the Ron Paul arena back in the two thous early two thousands, mid two thousands, and I watched Loose Change from Burma, so I got me questioning big events and so it all kind of snowballed into where we are today.
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Visit them today and schedule a call. I know that you've spent a lot of time reading into the Epstein files and put putting out a lot of videos and live streams talking about what you have discovered. So how do we how do we even get into this? I guess for people who you know, everyone has heard about Epstein at this point. Most people have heard about the Epstein files, and they know that there is something strange going on here. We've all had that suspicion for years.
At this point, even the so called normis I guess how deep does this rabbit hole go? What are some of the big takeaways? I don't know if this is something you can easily summarize, So take as long as you need, But what do you know so far?
Well, the first thing I would say is the context of this that I think makes the most sense is another subject that I kind of delved into, kind of parallel to all this stuff coming out over the last few years with Epstein, and that's the subject of honey traps, honeypots, and sexpionage, which governments have used for millennia. So we have to understand first of all that really with Epstein, there's not a whole lot in terms of what he was doing that's new, because this is the way that
the state has functioned for a long time. You go back to the Bible, for example, and if you read the Book of Judges, if you pay attention, Delilah is a honeypot from the Philistines to entrap Samson.
In the famous story of Samson and Delilah.
So espionage and this type of tactic and technique is ancient, you see it all through even the scriptures. But to fast forward to modern times, in the last hundred years, there have been some really famous cases where basically governments nation states have been brought down just from sexpionage.
A classic example is a.
Guy named Kenji Deuhara, who at the turn of the last century was Japan's kind of his Japan's Epstein, Epstein's.
Sat so to speak, who he came up with this idea.
He came up with this idea to basically put a bunch of houses of ill repute all throughout China and to traffic a bunch of opium throughout these houses of ill repute, which was again kind of pioneering that idea even I think he was doing even before the British were doing it, but maybe maybe around the same time. But he set up a network of informants and honey track amongst the prostitutes who could then sleep with all the Chinese generals and soldiers and gave him all the
advanced intel. But actually what happened was the Chinese in that.
Province were so.
Demoralized and addicted to Opium that basically when he marched in, the Japanese troops didn't even really have much of a fight. So that was a classic example. It's very famous in history in terms of warfare. That gives us something an insight into Epstein, maybe not so much from a kinetic warfare perspective, but from the way that you can entrap
and bring entire governments and civilizations down. So with Epstein, what you have is a more modernized version of it that's not again based around warfare, but based around compromising key people in the power structure or in society in general, and that comes out of an older model that the Rothchilds also used explicitly if you read their biography, and that we made a a lot of use of that Morton biography, which is an author as biography of the Rothchilds,
because in the first few chapters it admits that the famous story about advanced intelligence that they had over Waterloo was something that gave.
Them an advantage economically.
So they were able to buy up the London Stock Exchange when it collapsed because they had advanced intelligence about this battle, and they gained an immense fortune from that.
So in the same way, if you fast.
Forward to just as an example, some of the emails that popped up, you have Jeffrey Epstein doing these back and forth with Ariana de Rothschild and basically saying, hey, we've got a lot of advanced intel.
We can go into these regions. Buy it up.
When they have chaos, buy it up when there's collapse. He says to Peter Teel, I represent the Rothchilds. And so those are great examples of the Greek bailouts, the IMF debt crisis that was happening about ten years ago, eleven twelve years ago in the EU, Epstein was saying, these are regions where we can make massive amounts of money. So the same thing about Somalia in a series of emails.
And so while the sexual compromise plays a role in kind of taking out or controlling certain key figures in society, culture, government, banking, corporate arena, et cetera, the advanced intelligence also plays a key role in figuring out where to move money and where to move you know, resources to purchase land, et cetera. So it's all of those things and to the best way to understand Epstein is, in my view, as an elite level consultant and fixer, kind of a master organized crime figure.
Very close to what you would see in somebody like a John Gotti.
So well, I take that back like a Sami the Bowl, because John Gotti is the head of the family. And I did a bunch of interviews with with Sammy the Bowl, who was his underboss, and the way Sammy describes their organizational structure in the way that they worked back in the sixties, seventies and eighties, very close to what you see with Epstein in his circles, but they're on a
more international global scale. So it's an international crime syndicate that comes out of the structure that the Rothschild set up earlier with Geslane's dad, Robert Maxwell, who was himself an Israeli intelligence operator, British intelligence operat if you, kind
of worked for different different outfits. But they set up a corporate publishing empire for him to run, and then he also became a fixer and a corporate sort of takeover artist, and then he taught Epstein a lot of those techniques, and then Epstein was recruited into working for David Rockefeller as his right hand man, so to speak. At the Trilateral Commission as a council member, maybe even the I think it was maybe even the head of the Trilateral Commission.
Just to clarify what's the Trilateral Commission, I'm not familiar with that.
So basically you have in the Western power structure you have these steering committees that have been set up going back to the model that the British Empire had through what they called the Royal Institute for International Affairs, and this was sort of their round table that they set up as a means of running the empire through these sort of oligarchical wise men, and so they're very powerful blue blood families at the time of the British Empire, royals, elites,
academics even can be recruited into these roles out of Oxford, Cambridge and Eton. And so that model of the Royal Society's roundtable groups is the very same model that very powerful American oligarchs set up in the US through what
they call Pratt House in New York. So you have Chatham House in the UK, which is the original place where this was set up, and then in New York in the nineteen twenties, through Prattthouse, the count the Rockefellers set up the Council on Foreign Relations, which is a super governmental body that they're public, They're not.
A secret society.
They're public, but they are semi secret in that they have a huge amount of influence and I would argue
over politicians. And amongst the CFR, there's a more kind of elite clique that's called the Trilateral Commission that was set up by Kissinger and Rockefeller for big Naan Brezenski himself, because Brazenski wrote a book in nineteen seventy Cooed Between Two Ages, which is about the future technocracy, and Rockefeller and Kissinger were so impressed with this book that they said that guy needs his own steering committee to run, and so they created the Trilateral Commission for Brazenski, which
is again just kind of a more elite steering committee group amongst the CFR members. And then by the nineteen free what Yuri said, by maybe nineteen ninety, somewhere in there, they bring Ebstcene on to be a steering committee member at that very high level group.
So you've probably heard of Builderberg.
Builderberg group is a lot of the same people in the CFR and the Trilateral Commission, So it's at that level of like builder Berg.
And CFR stands for what the Council.
On Foreign Relations, which is again is kind of a supra a governmental group that has a huge amount of influence. They're semi public, semi private, so it's not a secret society, but a lot of people in secret societies like Skull and Bones or something like that. They will also be members of the CFR and the Trilateral Commission.
Thanks for watching this video.
If you haven't already, make sure you subscribe to the channel for more full real talk with Zoobi podcasts and clips.
Thank you.
This is a very very deep rabbit hole, and these names have come up a few times and they're going to keep coming up. And I think again, most people have heard the names Rothschilds and Rockefellers at least have heard the family names and know that they have a lot of wealth and it's generational wealth. But most people have not done the deep dive you have into all
of these subjects. So tell me a little bit more about who the Rockefellers and Rothschilds are in the past and perhaps even more importantly, in the prison.
Yeah, there's a great book that's kind of a good starting place for this. And it's by a guy named doctor Carol Quigley, and he was a high level CFR archivist and historians, so he's an academic. He's a professor from Georgetown, and he's Bill Clinton's mentor, very famously.
So when he wrote these books that he put out, you.
Have to understand that he's not a conspiracy theorist, right, so he's not writing as if he's saying that the establishment is bad. He wrote Tragedy and Hoe, which is this big, thirteen hundred page book. It might be at my other place, but we've lectured through that book on my channel about ten years ago, through the totality of all thirteen hundred pages, so it's about sixteen hours of lecture material. But it's really important because it kind of
forms the insider view that the power elite have. And that book was not written for the masses at that time. Has written, i think in the late sixties. It was written for the policy makers, the bureaucrats, and for CIA section chiefs during the Cold War to understand what the American foreign policy actions were because you had people working in the CIA who couldn't understand well, how come sometimes
we're funding dictators? How come sometimes we're funding communists? This doesn't really seem to make sense with what America is supposed to be about. So the book is explaining the bigger, grand perspective geopolitical stance that the Atlanticists, the Americanists elite have and so it's kind of going into what the big game plan is. And so that's why quickly is so important. And he says when he's writing the book that he is writing from the archives of the CFR itself.
So these are not public accessible documents. These are documents that only he had access to. And so he wrote another book a few years later that is a shorter summary called the Anglo American Establishment, and he traces the origins of this power block and this ruling class in the West to exactly what I mentioned earlier, which is the royal society in the roundtable groups and cecil rhades his idea of creating a new British empire.
Now we don't live today in a new.
British empire, but America adopted that sort of perspective through the elites like David Rockefeller, who famously joined his family's wealth with the Rothchilds family wealth, and that's who's really kind of the.
Ol archic class running the West. By admission, not just in.
Those books, but also you see this yellow book right here, This is the Rockefellers Authorized biography.
It says the same stuff in it.
David Rockefeller wrote a book called Memoirs where he says all the same stuff too. He says in the chapter on Builderberg, he says, I created the Builderberg Group in part of my family, and yes, we absolutely created it to have a world government, and he.
Says, I'm proud of it.
So there's very public admissions and a lot of these texts, and that's why it's important to read them. So we're not going to conspiracy theorist texts. What we do on my channel, and I've lectured through about seventy of these global elite texts by now in the last ten years. What we do is we go to the sources and see what they're saying, and what do they admit and what's their plan. So with the Rothschilds, they have a very similar but perhaps older European perspective on this, and
they gained a lot of power. According to doctor Quigley in his chapter on France in French baking in the seventeen hundreds is where they really began to come up, and they became you could argue, perhap apps almost the controlling interest in France in the seventeen hundreds and eighteen
hundreds through the Central Bank of France. And so what they did was they used a certain model of fiat central banking or fractional or reserve banking, which allows the private bank to be able to print into infinity however much money they want.
At that time, it was based on what they called gold notes.
Nowadays it's just straight fiat since Nixon took us off of the gold ctander. But this is still the same principle of loaning out and then getting interest on the money that you can print into infinity.
So it's kind of a never.
Ending money machine that they came up with, and it's a scam, but it works very well to kind of get your grip on the entire nation. And so that same model of a centralized bank then spread to Bank of England. It spread to the US with Federal Reserve many years later. But that's how they control these nations,
essentially through the money printing and through the bank. And that's why the raw Childs and the rock Fillers have had so much power and have been such a force in American politics, is that the Rockfillers representing the corporate side of things with the standard Oil and JP Morgan Chase and then the raw Childs through the older European model of banking. And many authors have argued that JP Morgan actually represented the raw Childs in the US. So that's the real power structure, and that's.
The model that they use.
But they have high level fixers and agents like a Jeffrey Epstein who does a lot of the dirty work networking consulting. In fact, there was an email that came out that Epstein had planned at one point he was about to meet.
With like fifteen heads of state throughout the world.
And so when he said to the band and that ban and interview that I was recruited into the Trilateral Commission by David Rockefeller himself. I was as legate as Ada Sha And then he says in the emails, I represent on the legate adashe of the Rothschilds. That's telling you everything that essentially, people like quickly and a lot of these establishment apologists have been saying the whole time that that's just this is how it really works.
This is quite the web. So why do you think the Epstein files came out when they did.
Well, I think that there was a lot of pressure from people like MASSI and others to have it released. You know, Trump made a big deal about this, campaigning on the release of these these files, So I think that those.
Are all part of the reasons why.
However, you know, the redactions made it very difficult to figure out exactly what was going on, so it actually in many cases seem to protect the perpetrators. And then when I forget who it was, an Apollo Lunar, some of the Massi and others went and actually saw the unredacted files right like a month or two ago, and they said, this is insane that we redacted all these perpetrators.
So it could on the way, it could on one level, be a giant sort of middle finger to say that even if we release these, it's not going to matter.
Because nobody's going to be prosecuted from it.
Even though, if you recall when these all came out this first batch, you had a lot of powerful people in corporate worlds and in government positions bureaucrats throughout the world stepped down because of their associations and potential criminal activities that were admitted in a lot of these files. So I think that even though there might have been some repercussions, nobody really went to jail so far as I'm aware, or has been prosecuted, So it didn't really
amount to much. And it's un as Trump decided to do preemptive Iran strikes, everybody forgot about it. So so yeah, it could be a demoralizing thing to release it and then nothing happens, or it could have just been a situation where there's so much pressure that they cave. But then again, you know, there's so much. There's so much
that's redacted. I mean, I'm not saying that you can't make out what's going on even though it's redacted, but the names is the main point of Like, Okay, well who are these billionaire perpetrators?
Right?
So we figured out there's a few of these, you know, billionaires out there that are in here, but in these low level academics and professors. But who are all these other names that are redacted?
Right?
How was the redaction explained? Like, what's the official line on the redaction.
Uh, it was protecting the victims, which is what makes no sense, right, How are you protecting the victims by blacking out pretty much everybody because it's not just victims. I mean I can understand, Yeah, in some of these cases is victims blacked out, but I mean in a lot of cases it's not, So it doesn't make any sense, right,
And then in other situations it's not redacted. So it's like, well, why in some case you have these low level academic professors, right, who are answering Jeffrey Epstein's emails about the most disgusting stuff, right, stuff I can't even mention. But then you've got billionaires presumably you know, that are redacted. So it's not consistently applied, is my point, which tells us that they were probably actually consistently applying it to protect certain people.
But the excuse is that they're protecting victims.
And do you know why they chose to So do you know, first of all, do you know how much of the total has been released? Is it something like half?
Yeah, it's like half, right, So there's like another supposed three million, Okay.
And is there an next explanation again from the official level is there. What's the explanation of why they released what they've released and why they've kept back what they kept.
Back, well, why they haven't released more? I don't know. I mean, there is no explanation right.
For example, I think everybody was surprised that this even came out because they did that whole binder fiasco under Bondi what like eight months a year ago, where they handed out a bunch of stuff that was already public. So that was all just a photo op and you know, a bunch of nonsense. But you know, Bondi got a lot of flak for that, and I think that probably had a lot to do with kind of her sort of demise in terms of the.
Public size as well as other things.
It's probably the same with the Patel But yeah, I mean it's been such a disaster, and I think that seems to be a pretty pivotal turning point a lot of what Trump was doing in terms of this MAGA split that's occurred since he began to say, stop caring about Epstein. Who cares your low IQ if you care
about it and you're not MAGA. You know, that was eight months a year ago, right around the same time that he was pressured to do strikes on Iran, and so that was I think a huge turning point to where it's just gotten worse with the Trump administration.
So there was something going on there. I don't know.
We're not saying that Trump himself necessarily has done something illegal. I don't know that, and I've not yet seen anything in the files that indicates that. However, I think that it's been an optics disaster and the turning point for the administration when they said, stop worrying about it, it doesn't matter. And then this comes out, right, So it probably came out or perhaps to damage Trump, at least the Democrats
thought it would damage Trump. And then of course we find out that most of the people in the intimate circles of itin for the most part, are we're basically Democrats. I'm not trying to play party politics. I'm just saying that these seem to be the facts. Then they decided, well,
this wasn't actually that beneficial for the Democratic Party. So there could have been multiple motivations right in terms of why it was released, But regardless, what it shows us is a window into how the establishment really works, which is above the party system, and you have these international oligarchs, billionaires and essentially what if you've seen the recent James Bond movies basically Specter.
Yeah, I'm just trying to get my head around it because all or nothing kind of makes more sense to me than this halfway. Okay, let's release fifty percent of it with lots of reduction. It would kind of make more sense to me if they just did what they'd been doing for the past few years and they just
never released anything to the public. Obviously that's worse, I guess, but it kind of strategically if I try to put myself in their brains, which I think, thank god I can't, that that kind of makes more sense to me than doing this halfway approach. And then I don't know, is the second half going to be released? Is that gonna just stay hidden indefinitely? Does there need to be political pressure,
does there need to be public outcry? You know, it's just kind of tricky to wrap my head around that part. Let alone start to wrap my head around what's actually in these files.
Because I didn't expect the first batch to come out like it did because I was live streaming when it happened, and I noticed on Twitter it was like Okay, you start seeing this drip out and like more and more, you know, high profile accounts like Maro on the Fall keep putting up like just absolutely insane level stuff, which you know, ten years ago, any single one of those emails would have been like.
The biggest news story for weeks.
And they hear it as like every minute, like some emails dropping or some text messages dropping, where you know, you've got Epstein, He's in Ukraine a month before Zelensky comes to power. You've got Zelenski's text messages saying, I get.
Me to get me Jeffrey, I need to talk to him. I need to be consulted. What do I do?
You've got all these like world leaders and prime prime ministers, you know, mentioning how they need his consultation and they need his help and so uh, you know our livestream, I think for an entire week, literally like every day for hours, when I had a six hour live stream, they got like seventy thousand views, which is on my channels really big, so like it was just never ending like material and information to cover it, which just blew
me away. So I didn't expect we would get that, and even what we saw in the first first batch there was just absolutely like mind blowing level stuff. I mean everything from what appears to be you know, s n uff type stuff to giving the ok to do a hit I mean assassinate. I mean, it's all the stuff that's in there that you can think of. Presumably a lot of references to trafficking.
Of people.
Exactly what the coded words being in terms of beef, jerkey and grape soda, I'm not sure, but it presumably it refers to some sort of black market something.
So you know, the level of this.
Again, it's an industrial scale operation that he had, so that I think is what's the most kind of shocking that we even saw any of that. And I wanted to distress that there were so many journalists and people that.
Wrote books over the years. My publisher also.
Publishes Whitney Webb's book in her volume two on Epstein, I think was pretty much vindicated in these emails. Another book that was written by guy named mac Gordon Thomas called Gideon Spies maybe twenty twenty years ago, twenty five years ago. A lot of that, a lot of his theses and theories have also been indicated by these files.
So again, it's a window into how the power structure really runs things, and I think that's the most important part of it beyond you know, I mean, obviously i'd like to see, you know, a lot of high level criminals get prosecuted, but I never really thought that would happen. So I'm just kind of happy that we even get this window into how the oligarchy really works.
How much of it have you actually read through? Because wasn't something ridiculous, like wasn't it three million pages or something?
The big ones that popped up on Twitter? So I mean, for me, Twitter was sort of the main method of looking at this. I mean I did go to the website and look up some things from the DJ itself, but rather than spending a whole lot of time like searching through the archives, what I would do is if I found one that I thought was pretty spicy, just verify look to see if that one's real.
Pretty much all of them were.
The only thing that I think was a little bit shady and suss or disinformation was there's so many of these files, and so many of them were things that are kind of irrelevant or they were things like random FBI tips that people could call in, and a lot of people on X were kind of not ferreting out this information very well.
So they were taking things that like some schizo guy calls in to.
The FBI and says Trump sought my house and he's doing this, or they took me on a boat and they were doing this and this, and I saw him eating babies and this and that, and they cut my feet with a magical sword that doesn't leave marks. Like it's just like, obviously that's a schizo person, you know, calling in a tip, right, and that's different from, for example, information from a confidential informant.
So there were confidential informant reports.
There were FBI reports, there were police reports, all different tiers and types of documents. So I think, you know, ferreting out those was the most important thing to figure out. Okay, that's not credible. This is just some guy's assertion and claims. This is an actual court case right where Epstein is involved in. You know, there's twenty million dollars here, there's ten million dollars here. Those I think were the most
important things. And the admissions of how they view where to move money, and you know what the the chaos in certain regions does for moving money.
Basically, I think those were the most most insightful.
There was something you mentioned earlier about Ukraine and Zelensky saying that he needs Epstein. I have not seen those emails. What's that about?
Well, actually those were text messages where so there's one email where Epstein is saying, hey, blah blah blah, I'm going to be in the Ukraine and blah blah. I forget what the date was, but that was one month before Zelenski came to power, so a lot of people said, that's very curious that he would be there. And then there were text messages where Zelenski was saying, I need to talk to Jeffrey. He's really good at consulting on
these kinds of issues. And there were at least three or four of those.
And those are messages sent between who where is that?
Well, sometimes the names are redacted, so it could be Zelensky and Bannon, or it could be Zelensky talking to someone else, but a lot of the text messages appear to be Epstein and Bannon back and forth, and so I think the Zelenski one was perhaps Bannon or it's redacted.
I don't recall the top of my head, got it, But you can. You can find them pretty pretty easily.
You just type in Epstein Zolensky text messages they'll come up.
So Zelenski's I assume, so his name was not redacted in this.
No, not in the text messages. Yeah, this is this.
Is the thing. I'm trying to get my my again. I'm trying to understand the what what's redacted and what's what's not.
Yeah, I don't know the logic of how they did it, or I mean, perhaps they applied to program to it, because I mean it seems difficult for human beings to redact three million documents.
I mean that would be a lot of work.
I mean, it seems like there's probably some computer program that would do it.
I don't know.
I also, I'm also confused by the three million numbers, So what does that what does that include? Because I don't know, I mean, if you if someone even took I mean in my whole lifetime, right, I haven't even sent three million emails and text like through my entire lifetime, let alone ones that are shady, but like I don't even know, like where what's that three million number? Like what was included?
It's everything, So it's basically news articles. And the reason that it's so high level are so many such a high number is because they were still collecting you know, data and.
Reports all the way up until recently.
So basically anything in the media about Epstein, which countless news articles. It could be police reports, court case documents,
FBI reports. I don't think there's a I can't recall anything from the CIA except for maybe oblique references to certain things, but a lot of FBI related documents and materials, and then like I said, like confidential informant reports as well as tips, so you know, somebody just calling in and saying, hey, I was you know, Jeffrey Epstein touched my butt in nineteen ninety nine.
Well that makes it in there then as a you know, as a document.
So there's there's a lot of those photos videos, So there were photo and video files of all kinds of kind of really horrendous stuff. A lot of that was also blacked out too, For example, many images of Epstein and powerful people with what appeared to be very young, underage and children aged people.
So that's why it was so many jeez.
So this might be a very naive question, but I'm still trying to get clear on who Jeffrey Epstein actually worked for.
Yeah, well, that's a great question, and it looks like again, I think the best way to understand this, because it seems to be conflicting allegiances, is to understand that he actually worked for a very high level international oligarchical power
structure and elite. So if we understand that model, which is this model that I've been talking about of how you know, quickly discusses these steering committees of these high level people like Builderberger level people, Rockefeller, Rothschild, Kissinger level people.
If we understand that that's really running things in the West and has for a long time, for perhaps a century or so, that's a better model to understand and explain how it makes sense that Jeffrey Epstein appears to have several different allegiances because there appears to obviously be a Masad connection, with Massad outfitting his estates and mansions and houses with surveillance equipment. Admittedly, Ewood Barock visits his
New York residences dozens of times. According to mainstream media, they have extensive conversations in the files, even some of the audio conversations leaked where Epstein is explaining to Ewood Barack who Peter Thiel is and how they need to try to get him into their sway, into their circles. They mentioned a lot of tech billionaires kind of been
trapping them, bringing them in, getting them on board. So if we understand that perspective, then we can say, ok now, now it actually makes sense that you have these emails that Mike Benn's highlighted where Epstein is able to use CIA planes for many decades at the same time as he's got these connections with British intelligence high level people in the UK through Maxwell and just laying obviously because Maxwell worked for British intelligence as well as trying to
also play both sides of the Cold War with the Soviets and with Israel. And so there's a supra international elite and that's who Epstein worked for. So you could say it's British Intelligence and the CIA and the Masade and perhaps the Five Eyes intelligence structure, that oligarchical elite is what we work for.
Jeez ah boy, I mean, how deep do you think the rot goes?
I mean, to a degree.
Like we said at the beginning, you know, nation states have all always operated with blackmailers and intelligence operatives and used you know, these kinds of operations to a degree. But I think the difference here is that we're beyond the nation state level. You know, this is more than kings having a network of prostitutes. You know, this is an industrial scale operation that's not just about blackmailing high power,
high power people. It's a lot to do with money laundering, it's a lot to do with international finance.
And I think that's the thing that.
People missed when they talked about Epstein, or then when they thought about it, they came out in the Bannon interview, the first twenty or thirty minutes of the interview, he's unless Bannon is playing stupid, like he's having to explain to Bannon what forractional reserve banking is and how it works, which was odd because it would have thought Steve.
Banner knew what that was and how it worked. But maybe he was playing dumb. I don't know. But and then he goes into explaining to Bannon.
Like, you know, I was recruited to help consult and explain to you know, high level power players like on the CFR Charlateral Commission boards, like how to do criminal operations and consulting at that high level. He even said that when he was in jail when he first got arrested, like he would he would when he had his like daily phone call, like one phone.
Call or whatever the prison rules are.
He's like, yeah, I would go called ahead of you know, JP Morgan and tell him what to do, where to move money during the.
Bailouts and the housing collapse.
So like he was even if you've watched Good Fellas or like gangster movies, right, like you know how they're in they're in prison and they're still running the family organization from jail.
Like that's what he was.
Doing, right, he was actually and he was laughing and bragging about that to Epstein.
So so he's.
Again a high level criminal fixer and consultant, and the rock goes as deep I guess as.
The highest levels of power in the West.
And I mean this even ties into the Vatican, right because Epstein several times went to the Vatican, especially under John Paul the Second. They seem to have a pretty close relationship. According to several of the emails, Epstein claimed at least to even be given pieces of architecture for his house from John Paul the Second. He claims to have consulted John Paul on architectural stuff.
Then we have that.
Image of him and just laying being blessed by the Pope. And he's not the only high level, you know, PDF connected fixer who was closed to John Paul the Second. Jimmy Saville was also knighted by John Paul the Second, who was a high level PDF fixer in the same circles that Epstein was in. So again, there seems to
be a pattern here of how this works. He even explains to Larry Summers, the Clinton era banker and Harvard vulture capitol guy, what the Vatican Bank is and how it works is a great tool for international money laundering that.
The CIA is used historically.
So he's even explaining like the Vatican Bank to people and how it ties into their network. And the Rothschilds have been the Vatican bankers for at least a couple hundred years, so that's how deep it goes into the Vatican as well as well.
You know, It's like I think a lot of people wonder why there hasn't been why there haven't been more questions about all of this stuff over the years or the decades or even now, there doesn't seem to be that much sustained interest about the Epstein files. When he supposedly ended his own life a few years ago, allegedly, you know, there was a lot of talk about that and memes on the internet for a couple of weeks, and then it just kind of disappeared, and people's generally
lost interest and stopped asking questions. And I think part of it is just because it just seems like insanely complicated to even get your head around. I mean, I'm here talking to you and just listening, and I myself as someone who is intrigued to really understand what's going on here and what's been going on here, and who is really running the world, who's really really running our nations?
All this type of stuff, and like my brain is my brain gets overloaded and I'm just like what, like everything is, everything is connected to everything, and there's like all of these things going on at once. It's not just the it's not just trafficking, it's not just money laundering, it's not just central banking and moving money. It's not just manipulating foreign wars and conflicts overseas. It's just like it's like everything, and it seems like everybody at every
level to some degree, is somehow involved or complicit. And I think because of the complexity, a lot of people just kind of shrug their shoulders in. It's just like like I don't know, like, you know, I guess, I guess it's just all corrupt. But I can't even you know, occupy my brain with all this stuff.
Well I get, yeah, I feel that, but really it's kind of simple.
I mean that's why in my books, for example, I always try to use movies as kind of an avenue to kind of hopefully explain it or kind of get the basics through to people, because you know, we've said a lot of names and a lot of organizations or whatever, and it sounds kind of maybe complicated with all these names, and we need like a corkboard with you know, string to tie all the people, like a FBI or the
conspiracy theorist has, you know, with their corkboard. But uh, really, if you watch a movie like Specter, the recent one with the Daniel Craig, the James Bond.
Movie, It's kind of like that, right.
You know, you have this international corporate banking super elite and they meet, you know, in places like Rome or you know, Builderberg for example, just happened in DC this year ironically, which hasn't happened since the nineties. But you know, they have these you know privates, I mean private meetings
where they really discuss and set policy. And my guess would be that there's also meetings that are that are completely private, right, that happens amongst the higher level groups and people, and so what you see and for example, in the movie Specter is uh, Specter meets in Rome
in this giant sort of villa. It's really elite place, and James bond infiltrates it and when he gets there, he kind of sneaks up into the balcony and he's listening, and they're doing this boardroom meeting in this giant you know,
sort of fancy hallway. And then you've got all these people sitting around this giant, you know, this giant table, and they're they're listing the stats for the criminal operations and so they're basically like, yes, this year, you know, human trafficking is up fifty percent and then this other person's like yes, and then and we've received you know, to ten billion dollars through you know, you know, heroin trafficking in this region and this.
So this is really like.
That there are actual people who get the equivalent of a PhD and how to run criminal operations. And I think a lot of people that that sounds kind of foreign to them, but or that that wouldn't exist. But again, to go back to the example of organized crime, when I interviewed Sammy the Bull, you know, the way he describes the structure of the Sicilian mafia in New York
and throughout the country and also into into Sicily. You've got hundreds of years of people who know how to set up criminal work organizations so that they don't get caught or if you bust one sell, the rest of the structure is left untouched.
And that model is very effective.
In fact, I had dinner with a guy some years ago who was part of the US team's prosecution in Brazil in what's called the car Wash scandal, and the way he described the way that this organization had corrupted the entire government was at the level of a PhD in crime. So basically this guy who they called the Sicilian,
they didn't use his real name. He was a criminal mastermind and he had figured out a very cunning way within Brazil, the entire country and government to be corrupted, and you couldn't really uncover it until there was an accidental mistake that somebody made by leaving a car to car wash, hence what's called the car wash scandal, and this led to the entire Brazilian government being exposed as
controlled by one criminal organization. And the same model applied to Operation Gladio, which is what the CIA did in
Italy to control it through Kissinger. According to some authors and consultants, namely Polliams's book on Gladio, he says that Kissinger was running Gladio through an organized crime structure in Italy that included both secret societies and the mafia, and so they basically co opted the entire Italian parliament and the cardinals in the Vatican through this Epstein style model of like bringing people to parties, compromising them with women, men, whatever, kids,
and then you can control the entire government that way because you've got dirt on everybody. The dirt has had through both.
The mafia and organized crime, the organized crime can enforce it.
And it was all tied into the Italian banking system, the Bank of the Ambrosio, which collapsed because they were stealing people's pensions and betting on the pensions, which is exactly what happened, same model as the FTX collapse.
And so when I was asking.
This guy who prosecuted the car wash scandal in Brazil, I said, this sounds a lot like FTX and Gladio, and he said, no, they're their exact same model. So essentially there's templates that can be used at a national scale or at a corporate scale in the case of like FTX, where it's a model of theft that is very perceptive and how there's cutouts and there's shell corporations. It's insane the level of confusion and sort of plausible
deniability and distancing that they can set out. But long story short, there's criminal PhDs who organize these things.
Okay, So within this web, who are the that's a question I want to ask here, who are like the good guys? Is that a thing?
Well, I mean in this web, there's no good guys.
So it's okay, So I don't mean people involved, but I mean, if we're talking about you know, if we're talking about we've got corruption at the at the national level, and then you've mentioned this sort of super national level which is going across countries and sitting across governments, then to actually expose and bring down this level of corruption and just gross immor immorality, I mean, are there people in positions who even could do that? Do you kind of see what I mean? Like, is it or is
the web? Is the web kind of caught so many people in it with all these different pressures and all of this blackmail. Like I'm assuming that you know, not every single person and every single Western government is like compromised, right, has you know, not everyone's like been to Epstein Island and you know, been caught on camera doing something sketchy or whatever. I'm sure some people have. I would like
to think the majority have not. But is there some other way that they're I don't know, putting pressure on them or keeping them silent or preventing this from being further exposed. Because the way I look at it, just using my common sense, it seems like Jeffrey Epstein's kind of like the tip of the iceberg. He's the name that people know. He's the face that people recognize. But I would assume that Jeffrey Epstein was not the only Jeffrey Epstein type character in operation.
Right, Yeah, And again, you know there's some weird stuff with you know, he was given control of Leslie Wexner's entire fortune, right, so's he He's a billionaire figure who is probably most known for kind of owning a lot of fashion brands like Victoria's Secret and you know, like Abercrombie, those kinds of things. Those were all part of the
Wexner sort of brand. And this is where you get these other figures like Jean Luke Burnell, who also underliped himself and seems to have been kind of a similar type of figure to Epstein, And under the guise of recruiting models, right and working for supposedly Victoria's Secret, he was able to then kind of get access to a lot of the women for that part of the operation.
And it also again ties into a lot of really sort of esoteric international finance money laundering stuff, which is kind of difficult to understand, even even though I have like a hard time understanding a lot of how the money launtering stuff where's because it's so complicated and complex by design, and the reason they do it in a very complex shell company way is that that makes it
very hard to understand and investigate. So that's why I like FBI or whoever starts looking at those things, like it takes them a long time to build the case and figure out exactly how it worked. Same with like the Brazilian car washcandle, like it took a long time for them to figure out the super complex criminal operation. But so there are good people in the sense of usually I think a lot of you know, people who are whistleblowers are great examples. I just did a pretty lengthy,
in depth interview with John Kiriaku. He had me on his show, and you know, he's a famous CIA whistleblower who blew the whistle on the torture program and the Obama administration went after him, and you know, he stood up against all that. So I think Kuriaoke is agree great example of a whistle blower. And you could argue that, you know, Julian Assange is a whistleblower, So I think there have been other obviously.
Other CIA whistleblower people.
So I think many of those people are genuine, and they really do shine a light on the corruption in the system and the establishment. I mean, perhaps there are white hats in the government as well. Perhaps we don't know those people. They leak things or they bring things out, and we don't always know their names. And I don't think everybody in you know, intelligence or in the military
or you know, is bad or compromise. I think it's the higher you go, the more powerful, the more you know Kissinger level people or Brazensky level people, those are the real uh. They call themselves the wise men. That's their their terminology for themselves as this as the sort of oligarchy, right, So I think the closer you get to those oligarchical power people, the less likely you are to have virtue because they don't see the world that way.
They just really see it as all pure Nietzschean power politics. So for them, there's no virtue that dictates anything in that realm. It's just pure power moves. That's pure you know, real politics. That's how they see it. So yeah, but I think there have been you know, noble virtuous people who have opposed this. A lot of journalists have written very powerful exposes and books and histories on this. But usually again the heroes or the good guys are people
at the mid tier and then the rest of the population. Right, the higher you go, the more likely you are to be compromised, and at least they at least they try to bring those people in it. And that's what you see with Epstein, right, is like they didn't just target like bankers. I mean they went after celebrities, they went after high level politicians, they went after corporate people, they
went after high level scientists. Right, you have those emails between Epstein and Bill Gates talking about pandemic simulations in twenty seventeen. So it's every area of society where you have influencers and influential people, and they don't even have to get everybody. They just need the key people in those industries. So you don't need every oil magnate, but if you can get a couple key oil magnates, you have a lot of influence in that industry.
Yeah, his names come up a few times, So can you tell me a little bit more about Kissinger?
Yeah, Henry Kissinger was He's an interesting figure. He was an intelligence officer. I want to I'm going for memory. I want to say the army in maybe one of the early conflicts. I forget whether it was like Vietnam or something like that, but I don't think he came
from from from wealth. And one thing that's interesting about the Western power structure is that it's not always necessarily wealthy people, because a lot of people come from a lower to mid mid mid class at times that can be recruited into the power structure depending upon their capability. So in the case of Henry Kissinger, he was apparently proficient in his intelligence at work, and then he went on to do a lot of high level academic stuff.
He wrote a thesis on Adrold Spangler, which I think caught the attention of Rockefeller, and so he was immediately recruited by the Rockefellers into kind of being what you could argue is maybe their sort of main league Gate or at the SHAE for many decades. Uh, and he was obviously a member of you know, high level CFR type stuff, and then came up with the idea that he proposed to David Rocke Rockefeller for a Trilateral Commission,
which would be a higher level committee for Brazenski. So he really became the point man in the face of
the Rockefellers for many decades. And that's why when you see Kissinger there in all of these administrations going back to like Nixon, that's the oligarchy in the background, really, you know, as I think he was a national security advisor, or maybe he was the what's the I forget that I'm going to I'm going blank on the term that like Brezenski was, you know, uh, the main advisor to Carter and these different presidents, right, So that's the role that these.
People kind of play in the background.
I mean, we see we saw Brazenski there from Carter up to Obama, right, he was Obama's security advisor, you know. So that's a key role for this type of person, you know, at the State Department and in other places like that, kind.
Of calling the shots.
In the background, but not in a secret way, in a semi public, semi private way. So I think they did the establishment discovered that that model works better.
Than it being totally secret.
Why not just have a figure like a Kissinger there for decades, you know, kind of advising the president what the real power structure, namely the billionaires and the trillionaires or whatever. You want to say what they want done. So that's who Henry Kissinger is, is one of these these high level consultants who's actually a league gate of the oligarchs.
Gotcha, man? Oh okay, So when you talk about the oligarchs and the oligarchy, and you know, I think that
terms being used a bit interchangeably with billionaires sometimes. I mean, I'm trying to understand who we are talking about here, because obviously not not you know, billionaires are not some monolith, right, Not every single billionaire is, right, Like, not every single billionaire is some weird dude running around with Epstein trying to control the world or you know, whatever this oligarchy is.
So I'm trying to understand, like, who is in this oligarchy and how big is it, especially because a lot of billionaires who are public figures obviously were targeted by Epstein and other types. And I kind of assume that if they're being targeted and you're trying to get this dirt on them and bring them into this web, it suggests that they're not necessarily already inside it. Does that make sense?
Yeah?
Again, Yeah, I mean when I say a lot garky, I'm just referring to what I believe is the real power movers and shakers.
Right, one of these.
People from the Kissinger group, I think he's from the Kissinger group.
I've ever call.
His name's David Rothcobb, and he wrote a book called The Superclass, and he talked about how there's really just a couple thousand people that run the world, and that that's what I mean by the oligarchy. And oligarchy is an old term going back to you know, ancient Greece, where you had times where you know, the Greeks would fall under the rule of these tyrants who weren't politicians necessarily.
They might just be just wealthy individuals who exercise a tremendous amount of control and power beyond what any democratically elected.
Official might might exercise.
And if you think about it, makes a lot of sense just practically speaking. I mean, if a senator makes or a congressman makes you know, one d two hundred three hundred thousand dollars.
A year, who do you think has more power or a billionaire.
I mean, obviously billionaires have a lot more power in our system, especially than some bureaucrat or some legislator. So that's what I typically mean by oligarch. And the thing with oligarchy is that even if they don't like each other, oligarchs can get together and.
Network and have.
A lot of power as a group or as a semi secret, semi private group beyond what elected officials might have. So when I say the oligarchy, that's what I'm referring to, not just any billionaire, but specifically, as we said a minute ago, certain ones that are targeted for these types of groups and networks or recruited into them or compromised. There's a lot of different possibilities, and they don't even have to necessarily be personally wealthy in the case of
Kissinger or even himself. Epstein himself wasn't wealthy, but he was recruited into this and put into positions of.
Power by wealthy people.
So sometimes people will talk about bloods and brains, right, So blood's being blue bloods are people that are inheriting or born into a lot of wealth, and then brains being people recruited into it, like a Brazenski or a Kissinger, who are exceptionally intelligent, high IQ people who are used by this oligarchy, this wealth structure to, you know, to further the cause of the oligarchy.
A good example of this was some years.
Ago when it came out mainstream media, for example, The Guardian did a big piece on it. I'm not promoting the Guardian, I'm just saying they're a source for this. There was a meeting called the Good Club and this was Bill Gates, George Soros, Oprah, I forget a few other billionaires that were there, and they were meeting to discuss how to further the agenda of depopulation. So that's
one example of the types of things that the Guardian covered. Yeah, just look up the Good Club, Bill Gates, Oprah and you'll get their article on their meeting. And they were just very candid about it that they were like, yeah, we're meeting to discuss how to depopulate the world.
So okay, I'm gonna google that one.
Yeah, look it up. It's a classic.
But you know's there's plenty of other examples. I mean, essentially that's what builderberg is and you have to understand it's not just one group. These are all the same types of steering committee, NGO foundation type groups and meetings that occur all the time. So the same people that go to Builderberg usually are also members of the CFR, and they're usually also members of the Council Foreign Relations, and they're usually also you know, part and parcel of
some other group like this. So all of these groups participate in and work together for the Western power structure, which you could.
Call the Atlanticist elite.
That's the term that Carol Quigley uses, and that's just a term that comes out of an older British model by a famous geopolitical strategist named Lord Halford mckinder, and mckinder is the one that came up with the present it's still used today, which is.
The heartland rim Land model of the world. Right. So the.
Perspective here is that to control the world, you need to control what's called the heartland, which is the Eurasian heartland. So because Eurasia is vast, it has most of the world's population, it has a lot of the world's resources. If you can control that, that means you have the upper hand in global power politics. So that's why, for example, Ukraine was really important and Braziski wrote a whole book
on this. One of his last books was called Strategic Vision, and in that book, he says that to really control the world, we need to control the Eurasian Hartland. He said the same thing, by the way, all the way back in his book Grand Chessboard, and I think the late nineties.
But why do they write these books.
Well, the books are written for that class, the political and intellectual academic class. And well, for example, when I was studying a lot of this stuff in grad school, like I went to my library one day because I was a research assistant, so I was working in the library, and before I owned Tragian Hope.
I checked it out, and my library had.
Tragian Hope since like the nineteen seventies, came out in the late sixties. Right, guess how many times somebody had checked out that book when I checked it out in all those decades. I checked it out probably in around twenty ten or eleven. Guess how many times people had checked it out?
So you said, in what timeframe.
Our copy was?
I think had been there since the seventies, late seventies. So from the late seventies until twenty ten, how many times would you think that.
Tragi Hope was checked out?
Three times?
No, I was the second, and all that time I was the second person that had ever checked out the book. Right, So, like I said, like a lot of books like that, at least before the internet. Uh, those were those books were written for academia and for people in government, right, So they they weren't written for the public.
They're not mass mass public texts.
And even all the way up until Brazenski's time, right, because he passed away a few years ago, like he would say in interviews and in because he was in he was on TV media quite a bit. You know, his daughter Mika Brezenski is still I think on MSNBC. But like he would say all the time, like the public has a two week attention span at max, so they're not they're not going to remember the news story from three weeks ago. And we just saw this with Epstein, Like people have already forgotten Epstein.
I hate, I hate that he's correct, He's so great.
And that unfortunate, but you know, that's that's the I think the attitude about why they would publish a lot of these big policy papers and books is that they just I mean, they know and they don't think the public will care or do anything about it.
Yeah, it's quite damning. One more question, before you before you round this out, is is Hollywood connected to this? And if so, how.
Yeah, absolutely great question. And again.
This very question right like was something I found the most most interesting and fixated me. And this is why I wrote, you know, three books on it was precisely because there is this fascinating connection between even the early stays of Hollywood, Like they were already using movies for propaganda back in the nineteen teens and twenties. Some of the biggest movies, earliest blockbusters, like Howard Hughes' movies like
Hell's Angels, those were war propaganda films. So they were already doing propaganda as soon as the camera was invented, basically.
And other countries did the same thing.
You had people in you know, Lenny Riefenstahl in Germany, you had.
His name's Eisenstein.
In Soviet Russia, they were using the camera to film propaganda films right away. So you know, what happened with Hollywood was that you had what eventually became a studio system where you had you know, three, four or five six studios that sort of became the dominant power structure in Los Angeles, and a lot of the studio heads would work with a consult with the military and the Pentagon, and eventually the OSS and the CIA. So the OSS is the precursor to the CIA from from nineteen forty
two until nineteen forty seven. From nineteen forty seven on, it's the CIA, but it was this relationship was so tight that some of the biggest actors in the history of cinema have been spies openly, and a lot of this was only declassified in the last few years, but it's all pretty much on record now. The National Archives just recently, for example, declassified some stuff that confirmed a lot of people's theories that you have people like Jimmy Stewart,
he was working for the FBI. You had people like Carry Grant, he worked with the OSS. The famous director John Ford made movies directly with the OSS.
In fact, the OSS.
What's in the OSS, I'm not familiar with that.
So the OSS is the Officer of Strategic Services, that's the predecessor to the CIA. So basically, in nineteen forty two you had Bill Donovan set up under FDR what's called the OSS, which was the advice that British intelligence gave to the administration at that time that you need your own private secret service or security apparatus, right, not for the president himself, but for the country to have essentially its own private intelligence apparatus.
And I would argue, as F.
William Ingdall does that, Really it's just the Rockefeller's private Army, is what the OSS was. And so Bill Donovan set up this organization after the model of how British Intelligence worked. So the British SIS or five and MI six became the structure for and the consulting brains behind the OSS, which in nineteen forty seven got rebranded and reformatted into the CIA.
So basically that structure was also working hand in hand with Hollywood.
For example, one of those key figures from British Intelligence that helped Donovan set up the OSS was In Fleming, who wrote all the Bond stories, So James Bond.
Yeah, so that's why I.
So I wrote my I never finished my master's thesis, but I published what I did complete in peer review. It's called The Mini Layers of Double seven if you want to look it up. But the thesis is about how intelligence was using Bond as a form of propaganda during the Cold War. So those Bond movies are propaganda
for those that don't know, for the Cold War. So that's a great example, Probably the greatest example of all of this is James Bond, Right, James Bond is you know, the Western power structures intelligence apparatus, usage of an image and a symbol in Hollywood to convey a message to the public during the Cold War.
And I'm not saying that that makes the Soviets good. They're not good. They did the exact same thing, right, So.
Both the East the West are utilizing this, you know, this new power of Hollywood for propaganda. In fact, Edward Burnees said that the most powerful engine of propaganda the world's ever seen was Hollywood. So that's why Hollywood is so crucial. It's the modern myth maker, it's the modern storyteller.
It gives the population their archetypal paradigm and worldview way more so than like the news, right, And the news is important, and of course the CIA had to very quickly have a stranglehold on the news, and that's what Operation Mockingbird was under Frank Wisner of the CIA. But for the masses, right, I mean, Hollywood plays that role. So but I want to stress that you know, it goes beyond just the messaging in the films. I mean, it's it goes as far as the recruiting of a listers to be spies.
That to me is fascinating.
I mean, Sterling Hayden was a famous, you know, forties era a lister and he was an operative for the OSS.
And then you get into more recent.
Times and nowadays, like a lot of a list Hollywood people, they just openly work with the CIA.
You have.
Jennifer Garner was openly a pr for the CIA. Ben Affleck, he made several movies openly in consultation with the CIA, Argo Zero Dark thirty, American Sniper. I mean, there's there's a whole ton of movies that have just been open CIA movies basically. So absolutely that's how it works, and that's what I wrote the books about.
Wow, well, Jay Man, I know that we could we could literally go for hours, and we'll definitely have you on the podcast again some time in the future. But man, yeah, thank you for I don't know how you. I don't know how you spend so much time researching and learn about all this stuff and talking about it and remain sane.
But well, I'm an Olddox, Precious or Orthodox Chris Jenny helps me be sane.
So keeps you root, It keeps you grinded, no doubt.
Man.
Well, God, God, bless your work and thank you for the gift of your time and wisdom. Where can people find and follow you online?
Yeah, my website is jasanalysis dot com and it's kind of an archived thing going back about ten years. I have a members section where all my lectures and talks and deep dives over the last ten years. You can find those in the archives there if you become a member. There's a lot of ton of public podcast interviews, debates at my website and at my channel Jasonalysis dot com. If you want the books, they're all signed copies in
the shop at Jasonelsis dot com. And you can find me on Instagram, ax, Rumble everywhere else under Jay Dyer.
Awesome, Jay, thanks for coming on the show man. It's been a pleasure talking to you.