Welcome to another episode of Our Interesting Times. It's my pleasure to have Jay Dyer back on the show. Well, Jay, how you doing.
Been great time. Always glad to be on Our Interesting Times because our times are interesting.
Very interesting in the worst kind of a way. And of course you are the proprietor of Jays Analysis jaysnalysis dot com. You're the author of So Teror Hollywood Sex Cults and Symbolism in Film, And I understand you are taping a very important series of I guess television shows for the Guide Network. Been very busy, so I'm very appreciative your time with me tonight. Thank you, And I guess you're finishing up later on this week with those seat.
Thank you for those kind words. Yeah, we've finished eleven episodes and we'll finish six seventeen or eighteen by the end of this week. And yeah, it's gonna be a lot of really really cool stuff movie a movie analysis kind of Ciskel and Ebers style show that really doesn't exist. I don't think there's another Cisco Ebert style show that that does film analysis, you know the way that I do it, and it kind of linked up well with the style of Jay Weedener the way he does film analysis.
You know, we have we have a good chemistry, a good rapport, so we kind of just go back and forth and give our thoughts and and and impressions of these seminal films and shows and kind of dissect them, you know. And it ties in well with Dave mcgallan's work a lot of the stuff that we're going to be talking about tonight, and we referenced, you know, Dave quite a bit. You know, my work kind of builds on that, as well as Michael Hoppins worked too. So
it's it's gonna be neat. It's it's gonna be I think, very high quality. It's not it's not stupid, it's not fluffy. It's going to be pretty hardcore. But it all would be a lot of satire and comedy and you know, joking around. Hopefully too. They may edit out on my Maybe they sounded like they were laughing in the control room, but I can tell, so maybe maybe they're laughing at
how bad it was, And I don't know. I hope my impersonation, you know, don't get edited out, but they may end up on the cutting room floor.
Sorry, what's the name of that show.
It'll be called Hollywood Decoded.
Hollywood you code it, okay, And that's going to air on the on the Guide network, and people, I guess subscribe that I don't.
Have to be by subscription. But as I understand, you know this is it's anywhere streaming service and it's also on some cable and satellite, so if you have Amazon Prime and that kind of stuff, you can get it too.
So oh excellently I do. Okay, so I can watch it.
It should be on all those Yeah, okay, I'm pretty sure that's right. I'm pretty sure Amazon has Gaya, but many to check on that. But but yeah, so we've got some of the some good stuff lined up for season one. We've got David Lynch, and we've got some Kubrick, and we've got some Ridley Scott, Blade Runner and the Alien franchise and some X Files. Uh so there's a there's a good lineup and then a lot more to come, you know. If this does well, we'll do another another two seasons on top of that.
So great, And of course a lot of those movies I do after watching or listening reading your analysis, listening to your analysis, you can go re watch some of the movies that Mayson little Strange, particularly David Lynch films, and you can really there's your analysis really helps.
And a lot of people were saying that, they say, when they get in the book, they kind of read my book and then they watched the movie and then read the chapter and watch the movie. So it's you know, it ends up being kind of a fun, fun thing, and I think the show will be too, because we have clips that we're playing too, so it's not just sitting you know, me sitting there talking with Jay Weedner.
It's also you know, important sections of the film and yeah, you know the images and the scenes and what's going on.
So your analysis of Ernest goes the campus particularly enlightening there was.
I wrote that as a joke, and then I had people who they didn't think it was a joke and they were like, do you really think this is about this? And it says satire on there.
Okay, it's great, and of course, listeners here if you want to support Jay regularly, you can support his website for five a month, sixty dollars a year. That's the regular thing. Support his research. Okay, Well, tonight, you've did a an excellent analysis of Dave McGowan's Program to Kill.
We've talked touched on it before in the past, and our previous talks, I think our first conversation we talked a lot about that, but just touched on it, and you did a almost a two hour analysis of it, and of course I wanted to talk about that in light of the maybe Michael Hoffman's analysis of the serial killer phenomenon, particularly the ritualistic aspect of it and the
alchemical process that he believes that's involved with it. A broader issue of sort of the societal degradation debasement that occurred in the nineteen sixties and seventies into the eighties. Of course, in the context of the Vietnam War, the development of feminism, and all the psychological warfare that the American people were being have been subjected to since the Second World War. So, hey, how do you want how do you go on dive into it?
Well, I guess I could point out that in my own experience, Uh, you know, I didn't grow up during that period. I grew up in the eighties, so I didn't know much about that era except through my dad. My dad was into led Zappelin in the doors, and you know, he would always play those albums, and that was really the only experience I had of it until I, you know, got to be older and started reading and getting into history and trying to make sense of what
had been happening, especially in the United States. And then I think in my twenties, about twenty four or five, I read Hoffman's book and that was a big piece of the puzzle for me. It was a big awakening stage for me. I think I've got my society Psychological. My copy is dated in two thousand and six. So he really opened up, I guess, a new way to
look at things, and in a broadway. So he's really tying in the ideas of Hollywood and mass culture, pop culture, with the military industrial complex and with secret societies in the occult and you know how the Pentagon used the psychological warfare and ritual crimes and how it all kind
of connects us. So I think he's maybe one of the best figures that you could point to that kind of laid out a more coherent, unified field theory of conspiracy, because you know, I think prior to I mean, maybe you can find somebody I don't know, but I mean when I think back to conspiracy texts written prior to two thousand and one, which is when he published his book, you know, you would get books that might deal with a certain topic, like you know, there would be books
on the Templars, and there would be a book on the Masons, and very limited subject matter. But I think Hoffman's book is a step towards meta analysis, where he's really trying to put all these pieces together, and he ties in, you know, the theological aspects too, like making sense of what happened in the Catholic Church and Vatican two and beyond, and it just made a lot more sense, I think. And so I was and I was a traditional Roman Catholic at the time, attending the Latin Mass
and so forth. So so Hoffen had a big impact on me. And then I realized that he was kind of the first person I read that did kind of an esotery movie analysis. So he kind of gave me the idea, or I got the idea to do that style from his analysis of conspiracy theory. He read a book or an essay on that a long time ago that's kind of famous. So so it's just it's a gray all around book introduction. It's usually what I tell people who are new to the topic to read as
an introduction. And I mean, I'm not sure where to start with it, just because he talks about so many things too. But Dave's book is a great companion to that book because they're kind of in the same vein. They do overlap at times. Even though the focus of Program to Kill is more just on ritual crime, he's not really dealing with you know, theology or history per se.
But one of the things that Dave starts out with that really impressed me in his book was that he he looks like he read most of the material that's published dealing with you know, MK ultra and mind control. So you know, there's Jose Delgado's Physical Control of the Mind, and there's Donald Bain's Control of Kenny Jones and Walter Bowart's book Operation mind Control and John Marxist book and I've read a lot of these, but I haven't read all of them. And I've read a lot of these two.
And so you know, Hoppins book kind of kicked me off on that eleven or twelve years ago, and then I read Jay Stevens's book Storming Heaven, which is also kind of along the same path as Weird scenes inside the Canyon, but not a little more water down, a little more mainstream. And I read that a long time ago, and that kind of got me thinking, you know, that maybe a lot of what we were told about the sixties counter culture revolution was not what was really going on,
and that maybe that wasn't real. And I had my own experiences of going to concerts and you know, being around so called hippies and that people of that counterculture mindset, because you know, you start noticing as you get older that it's really just different costumes and dressings that people
are wearing who are being counterculture. Right, So it's like the counterculture of my period when I was, you know, eighteen nineteen, it was Nirvana, it was Pearl Jam, it was alternative music, it was you know, that was just the next phase of the cultural dressing. And you start to realize that a lot of this stuff is not organic. It's actually top down. It's it's corporate, it's it's sold, uh, and that's it runs contrary to what the whole ethos is is that it's supposed to be an organic counter
culture movement. And then I think, you know, just as you get older, you read more and you learn more, and you realize that, uh, you know, the people who run society are not idiots. They're they're very adept, and they're masters of the scientific, scientific process, a scientific technique of mass psychology. So I know I would even still recommend probably Jim Keats's book Mass Control. It's it's a good introduction to this topic, and it fits well with
Michaels Hoffin's book and Dave McGowan's book. But anyway, just to kind of set the stage, you know, I just started diving into all these books, and you know, there really is a dearth of evidence to suggest that uh wait is that the right word. I'm kind of I'm kind of tired. Amount of earth is dearth?
Dearth be a lack of or ending of it.
There is an excess, excuse me, an abundance, an abundance of evident to suggest that that the counterculture movements are essentially, you know, engineered, and that's that's the main point here. And you said, well, how could that be? Why would that be? Well, when you look at what the Pentagon was studying, what the military was studying back into the thirties, forties and fifties what the advertising agencies were studying, and it was mass psychology, mass sociology, uh, and the mind
of man. And if you could master the mind of man, then you could master the mass mind. And so all of these studies and all this research that the establishment put into mind control and physical control of the mind and all this kind of stuff. Uh, it manifested itself in all these very bizarre things, like you know, one of the in Keltry doctors, doctor Jolli and West, gives a whole bunch of LSD to elephants just to see
what it what it'll do. Uh. And you can go on on YouTube and still see a lot of these this old archive footage of some of these Stanford research experiments too, where they're giving giving LSD to all these animals and monkeys and h seeing what it does. And uh, well you can watch the spider webs that were created by spiders that were given LSD and how they're all messed up and their webs don't work, and so that
I mean, they really perfected. I think the the chemical approach to biological warfare is what this amounts and that's why it was classed eventually under a biological warfare. So so that's what impressed me about Dave's book, and having now read a lot of these books that he references, I think I have a better, a much better picture of how the the studies of multiple personality slash disassociative identity disorder was of central import along with hypnotism for
so many decades. And I think that you could argue that this is probably perfected. And of course, you know, Colin Ross has a lot of lectures and books that deal with the same topics too, so I think there's definitely something to this. Now there's a lot of disinformation that says that there's no such thing as you know, fractured personalities and this kind of stuff, But I mean, it makes a lot more sense if this is true. Now. I've had my own experiences with LSD when I was seventeen,
so I know firsthand what happens. I had a bat trip the first time I did it, and so I understand the potentials and how it can cause multiple or fractured personality. Now, I mean, I don't think that I have alternate personality or anything like that. But what I'm saying is that I know the process of what happens in throughout the acid trip, so I can see how these kinds of things occur. And if you read John
Marx's book, he talks about that too. He talks about how they had actually studied the trip process and how it could cause dissociation. And then you get these popularizers, right who go out into the pop culture who sell it like Timothy Leary. Now, Timothy Leary attaches all this esoteric stuff to it, and this is where you get the whole idea of promoting the archaic revival and indigenous religious traditions and all this kind of stuff attached to
LSD and the promotion of hallucinogens. And I don't think we need to rehearse the Henry Loose Time.
We all know that's yeah, yeah, Time nine Life magazine.
Yeah, You've done plenty of interviews on that. And so you know, you start to notice all these things and all these these puzzle pieces that just don't make sense to be a counterculture revolution, you know. And of course that's that's the thesis of weird Scenes inside the Canyon, you know. And I think he argues as well in there.
That's our culture movement to whatever degrees. Maybe the anti war movement, you know, was a organic and legitimate was eventually taken over and turned into just kind of this Dionyssian bas passion type of thing where you know, Jim Morrison's up there like having sex with the speaker on the stage while he's bombed out of his mind on drugs. Right, it just turns into turns it to total total chaos basically.
And and this chaos and dissociation I think you can see it reflected in the artwork that was promoted like Jackson Pollock and Andy Warhol, and you know a lot of these CIA aided characters, these Frankfurt school type characters, and so to boil it all down, I mean, you really have. It's what Adorno talked about, you know, from the frankfur School, that that if you promote inversion and
the perversion, you could really destroy the social order. And these lackos, of these sickos really believed that you had to destroy the social order to fix things. So that's that's I think the setting for for the sixties. It was a whole bunch of things that was psychological warfare. It was a lot of large scale testing of cults of alternative lifestyles quote unquote, You've you know, you've done
talks with with John Adams. I've done interviews with John Adams, and he talks a lot about how California was kind of set up to be this mecca for the for the alternative lifestyle, you know, as well as promoting kind of the Silicon Valley military industrial complex, aerospace stuff, you know,
up towards Sacramento. You know, if you didn't like that, you could go down to La or San Francisco or hate Ashbury or something, get involved in whatever cult you wanted, right, So it's really you just have this cornucopia of test tubes I think going on throughout the sixties. And I think that LSD was given on a mass scale on purpose.
I think that was by design absolutely. You know, when you look into the history of the drug war, you start to realize why that would be very plausible, especially given the importation of cocaine and crack for you know, the black neighborhoods and stuff like that. We figure out, but that's all true. So it just makes more it makes a lot more sense that the culture is controlled and studied and created much more than it is, you know,
any kind of organic process. And so that's the setting, that's the zeitgeist for both Hoffmann's book and Dave McGowan's book.
Yes You Have a Program to Kill. And now the way it's structured is he introduces the book first with organized elite pedophilia, the pediocricy I think, and I think the first eighty or ninety pages talks about the Mark de trou Fair and these various exposure of pedophilic networks and we all just in recent news and just in our research, alternative research into the deep state and some of the intrigues of the intelligence agencies, the function that
that serves that child, that human trafficking, particularly with blackmail and human compromise.
Well, what's interesting too is that both of these books, Hawfins's book was written in two thousand and one and Dave's books written in two thousand and four. And here we are. You know, it's twenty seventeen. And I had hawfins book a long time ago, and I would give this book out. People were calling me crazy. They would hand it back to me. I read the first chapter. Here take this back, yeah.
And I'm sure that.
I'm sure Dave's I'm sure Dave's book was received the same way. I only read, you know, for Gom to Kill fairly recently. But yeah, but the point, my point is just that look at how much of this has been vindicated, you know, in the last few years. So these are prescient books. And for me, you know, I mean, I don't want to be vindicated on this awful dark stuff, but you know, it makes me realize that I'm not
actually crazy. So all the people who you know called me nuts over the last fifteen years or whatever, well.
I get that. I say, when people call someone calls me crazy, I said, no, you're just ignorant. Yeah, then they get offenders. Will you just called me nuts, which is worse? Yeah, right, you just don't understand what they don't understand it.
I'm not mean, I don't, right, I don't mean to be arrogant, but I mean, ninety nine percent of the time when when people are operating that way, they've not read any of this stuff. No, they don't have any working knowledge of this material.
So yeah, it's yeah, it's someone and you're you don't have the patience or the election to be tutored on this stuff. So I'm not gonna waste my time, you know, just do the research, come back in five years, and then we'll talk about it. And that's what it takes.
That's the problem is there's no substitute for for understanding these things other than just doing the research, reading the material and thinking about it and also holding out that, you know, there are some some of these things that there's nothing wrong with saying I don't know, I don't know for sure. You know, there's bias against there's a bias towards certainty, and some of these things we don't
have certainty uh with. We have to infer, have to you know, uh speculate uh based on on the on the information we have, you know, and that's only natural. I don't know. What people expect, they get. They create a usually high standard. It's selective too, because they'll they'll accept that the narratives and other things not any without any evidence, or just because they're told something, you know, because Walter Kronkake told them something.
Or they're you know, yes, Brian Williams, there's a brilliant Yeah, go ahead, there's a brilliant, brilliant point that Dave makes in The Program to Kill at one point where he says, yeah, we're supposed to believe that the CIA never really got anywhere within k Ultra.
It didn't really teach them anything about mind control and how to brainwash people, and you know, they just kind of let this go after the hearings and all this stuff. However, we are at the same time supposed to believe, from the official sources that all of these cult leaders have perfected the process of my control. Right, so it's a double Jim Jones, David Press and Jim Jones are masters of mind control, but the CIA and Pentagon, they just don't have a clue on it.
Yeah, with an unlimited budget technology at their disposal. On Yeah, that's I mean, that was the the subtext or the the argument of Charles Manson's conviction. He makes this very point is the assumption of my control on the part of Charles Manson. Mm hmm, because he apparently, you know, the the the the killers uh went out, you know, and performed the massacres and they're convicted, but they're they're there.
We were to understand that they were they were they were controlled zombies and the Saint Charles Manson, who according the official narrative, was never at any any of the scenes was convicted, right, And it makes no sense from a legal stuff, yet they did it.
You know, yeah, that's yeah exactly. And you know, I just liked the the approach because, you know, Dave's willing to he's willing to look at the arguments of the skeptics. And one of the problems is that, you know, skeptics who said that there's not any substance to disassociate of identity disorder or to any of this stuff, is that they generally don't take into account all of the abundance
of for example, material in Dave's book. Right, So you'll get these people who try to debunk things, but they never deal with, you know, like the totality of the three hundred and fifty pages of this book. You know what, what what about all this? Right? I mean, it's I mean, I can I understand people being skeptical, and certainly not every time somebody claims something it's true, but that's not a sound argument to debunk the whole idea of you know,
maybe we don't under understand everything about the psyche. You know that I've done a lot of reading and a lot of research into that. And you know, I don't think that the so called establishment really understands or knows what the psyche. I mean, have perfected a lot of techniques when it comes to entrainment and psychic driving and these different you know, mind control techniques, but that doesn't
mean that they really know what they're dealing with. Because you know, Saint Paul's the who knows the spirit of who knows the soul of a man, but the spirit which is in him, right, so even our souls and our spirits are somewhat mysterious even to us. So I don't think the establishment has every everything locked down on what man is or what man's soul is, precisely because most of these people have completely naturalistic presuppositions, so they don't think there is a soul. So you know, this
is why everything's treated with chemicals and so forth. But anyway, you know, he just provides a bunch of arguments for you know, people in the establishment, even saying there's more going on here. These people aren't faking. You can look at experiments through hypnotism. Hypnotism has been study studied for eighty years, so you know, obviously they've made some kind
of progress there. Freud talks about ritual abuse, and then you have, you know, the suspicious, obviously suspicious fact of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation being founded by these CIA people who are bold and things like child drafting and child born and stuff.
That's right, it's a what's his name? What was his name? It was morn Orn or something he was or was MK ultra scientist.
A bunch of stuff on that. But yeah, I.
Think wasn't also Jolly West involved with them too?
That sounds right?
Yeah, I mean, okay, false Memory Foundation. Now, for a point of clarification, Dave mcgown's thesis, uh well in Program to Kill and also Dovetails are it's a good follow up to him to his or actually preceded it, but
to his Laura Canyon book, because Laura Cannon. He points out that the this dizzy array of the popular some of the most popular musical bands of the nineteen sixties having connections to military and intelligence, with the theory that the music itself was weaponized the purposes of culture creation and sort of steering the culture in a certain direction, undermining the anti war movement. The manipulation of the youth culture. The creation of the youth culture was preceded by a
decade I think in the early fifties. In Program to Kill, he says, he provides, He puts forth, That puts forth the theory that the arrival of the serial killer phenomena on the American landscape wasn't an organic development or an accidental development coming out of America's post war you know, the environment of prosperity, youth culture, a sexual revolution. This
was a plan. This was a weaponized sort of a domestic application of the Phoenix program, right, and also an attempt at maybe an update or a modification of murder Incorporated to carry out certain amount of hits and you know, and also an attempt to shape the culture, to create a culture of fear, to sort of expand or then vergeoning police state, swat teams, FBI, Quantico, uh, Quantico lab and all this stuff, and the justification of budgets. So
that's that's just that's the thesis of the book. Is that?
Is that?
How you you see his argument?
Oh? Yeah, absolutely, and yeah. The majority of the book is made up of the the serial killing crimes and ritual crimes and then you do have, like you said, those are those kind of early chapters that dealt with more of the sex crimes and pedophiles. But you know, one of the themes that he mentions is that a lot of these these people seem to have been known
by the establishment, a lot of these devians. And so the idea here is that because a lot of these people who were troubled, maybe they were brought up in very severely dysfunctional homes and then maybe they were molested, and then having been through the system, they would have been fingered and earmarked as potential candidates for these kinds of things. Now that's very scary and that's very daunting.
But when we think about all the other material that's out there, For example, the way that doctor e and Cameron was stationed at Mount Royal Psychiatric Institute in Canada, that's precisely what he was doing. He was finding troubled people in the psych wards to run his tests on.
When we think about other aspects of the m culture program that will run through various universities and Human Ecology Foundation, or through these fronts, these psychiatric fronts, they were also working in prisons, like in Louisville, Kentucky, excuse me, Lexing in Kentucky. I think it was one of the sites where they were picking out prisoners according to John Marx's book.
So that dovetails well with Dave's thesis, which is just that you have if you've grown up in the system, you know, with somebody like Charles Manson, He's a great example who's you know, he was in juvenile problems from like day one, right, so he would have been known to the system. Is what is what we're trying to say here, and that a lot of these guys seem to have a curious pattern of where they end up.
And the serial killers tend to be excuse me, you tend to have these time periods where they spent a good bit of time in California, Texas, in Florida, excuse me. And so Dave kind of theorizes that what you have is in these states is number one, they're they're kind of obviously to military industrial complex type states, especially with
a lot of the the bases in California. And then you have a lot of drug running that would be related to the Texas Mexico border, and then obviously drug running too from waterways, you know, into Florida, So so that that requires a lot of deep state apparatus, in other words, to to keep the drug situation flowing. And when you have one black market like drugs, you oftentimes
have the other ones too, like human trafficking. So drugs in human trafficking requires sometimes threats and hitmen, and the the serial killer phenomenon then can have many uses, right, So you mentioned those in your description, but of course
Dave also mentions the possibilities of unsolved murders. These can be haystacked, I think, is the term that you've used where police departments excuse me, the haystacking is where you you you have a target, but you sort of blend them in amongst a whole bunch of people that you've that you've killed, so what appears random. So that's another
one of the thecs here. And then you also have the notion, like you said, of hay stacks of uh, you know, police departments kind of stacking these onto one guy and really Luke has killed you know, two hundred people or whatever, which seems seems a little bit uh implausible.
Yeah, they took him on a tour. I did that one yeah, I did that one. Yeah, yeah, that was me too.
But I think it's fascinating too that you know, he tends to mention with these characters that they they could have been picked out because they had disassociative identity disorder.
Uh.
And that may not necessarily mean that they were like programmed in the sense of you like sent on the mission to do this. Now, they may have been in some cases, but rather than that, they would have been chosen as people who already had mental problems, is when I'm try. And that would be the cover, right, They would never be suspected for being used by the establishment or some nefarious group precisely because they're crazy.
Yeah. And the reason, I mean the suspicion that that that sort of uh identification process was in place well with m k Ultra, the psycho psychiatic profession was completely taken over by the military and intelligence for the purposes of doing just that. So I mean, for example, you mentioned obviously you and Cameron up and up in Canada, uh, and he was funded by the Human Ecology Fund, the c I A. I mean this was George Esterbrooks World War two.
Uh.
You've over in the UK at the Tavistak Institute, which identified you know, shell shock and trauma and how it could be weaponized and manipulated PTSD and the various Uh. I think I think every prominent psychiatic hospital institution was somewhere or another one involved with mkultra back in the sixties, fifties and sixties. Uh, same with the Actually you mentioned the prisons Vacaville. There was a Angola prison in Louisiana, and yeah, you mentioned the one in Kentucky. So that's
been established. So that's I mean, all the some of the big heavy hitters in psychiatry and psychology were part of mk ultra, and so that reporting mechanism would be there just for that.
Yeah, so exactly right, And even even the public information is over forty universities in institutions like that were involved, so you know, and that would include I'm assuming universities that we probably would like. Yeah, it would be some of the obvious ones like Stanford and Harvard. You know. The ted Kyzenski was part of the m k Ultra project in.
Right, and I think his victims were connected to SRI I. Yeah, okay, if if the official narrative is has any truth to it right, which is which is interesting. I mean, so he's he was an m k M culture test subject or victim.
By the way, just a little aside. Here have you seen Spellbound.
With with with Gregory Peck?
Right? Yeah?
And yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw years ago with Ingenbergman, here's all the freudianism I thought was hilarious in it.
Well, it is Roudianism. But what's interesting is that if you go back and watch it, Gregory Peck is being used as the he what the there's a doctor at the institute who's framing Gregory Peck for murder.
That's right.
He's doing that because Gregory Peck has this associative identity disorder and he can't remember what he's done. And so I was like, this is in the forties, and I was watching this the other day. I was like, man, this is kind of like an analogy for a lot of Damn Calter type stuff. This fits well with dem mc gallon's book because this guy believes that he's committed the murder and it was actually the head of the psychiatric institute.
Yeah, that's the one with all the savage or Dolly Art in it.
Correct. Yes, it has a surrealist all seeing eye the.
Artwork, and I think it was George Esterbrooks. He was the world during World War Two. Was talking about my control and hypnosis and trauma to create used a disassociated disorder, multiple snalities to correct.
Yeah, the essay Hypnosis Comes of Age, which is the most famous one that you can read. This was a it's online and it's the nineteen seventy one or two Science Digest essay that he wrote, and that's where he kind of lays out his bragging about all I can do. I mean, I think the essay is older than nineteen seventy one, but it's that's where you'll find it online, is in that that format. But yeah, that's where he describes the process of hypnosis and the courier and the keywords and the triggers.
And all that. And did you catch my interview with doctor Joseph Ferrell recently on common Core? I did, Yeah, And the he he's made it well and that interview knows on several and in the book of course, he connected uh, the Electronic Testing Service to the Human Ecology Fund.
I did hear that?
And when you're talking about you're you're talking how these guys could be identified, profiled as you know, through the various because they're identified as being psychological.
We have the standardized testing exactly standardized testing.
Yeah, and so now, and of course that was all done at the behest. I mean they contacted I think it was conit. I think a Harvard who ran it or something. Man, I forget the name right, remember, but basically it was It's done to not just identify, you know, the best and the brightest, or to sort of to channel people into the professions they think people should do based on their testing parameters or standards whatever. But you could you talk about today, I mean talk about the military.
Does the video games write this interactive video games that go to the Pentagon first shooter games, these things.
Being monitored and kill everybody at the wedding.
Yeah, so these people can be identified like that. So I was imagining the technologies former advanced now just with obviously with the internet, with our smart devices everywhere and everything being monitored, what we read, what we buy or habits being monitored digitally, and that could you know, that could flags you know, certain you could get flagged and okay, here we get we got somebody, you know.
Yeah, So let's go.
You know, so again it's one of the people hear the stuff says No, I mean that the the literature of the history is there, and it's been acknowledged that these that this was done. And again the all the universities, all the psychiatic hospitals, these prisons, these institutions, uh they're supposed to help us protect society were weaponized, you know, to do something quite opposite of what their with their public charter claims they're there to do.
And if anybody doubts that, all you have to do is read the works of Bertrand Russell to understand the scientific outlook m hm. Because it's ruthless, it's not moral. They don't have any qualms of using people in that way.
Mm hmm. And of course in the book he he just goes to a list of of of these serial killers. They all I'm not all of them, but almost military intelligence backgrounds UHM experience.
Right, Yeah, that's where we would get the potential Phoenix connection. But I thought it was interesting that, uh I didn't actually know a whole lot about Henry Ucas, but you know, he points had a lot of suspicious things like being pardoned by w Yeah, he's a good man. Henry Lucas
a good boy. He's a good boy, right. But so he claims that he was in a satanant colt though you know, so I don't know if it's true, but that's what Innery Lucas claimed that the hand of Death Cult you used him and that he was a contract killer, and that this was associated with human trafficking from Puarez into presumably Olpasso or Brownswell or somewhere. And this of course connects to the Death Cult MS thirteen, which is the Latin American gang that's you know, connected to all
this kind of stuff. And I believe has to have some kind of help from above. I don't mean God, he's from above from the government, especially with you, because I watched them documentaries on Sante, which is the cult which a lot of the MS thirteen are into, and you look at the guys who runs cult, and there's totally shady, obviously involved in some kind of some kind of thing. And that's that jives well with a lot
of what Dave claims in the Henry Lucas chapter. And you know, this is where we he's a good example of kind of the archetype of what his thesis is because Henry was office of a naval intelligence or had some connection there, or he was spotted there, and maybe he there's some connection to NATO. I'm looking back at the at the book here, careful screening of subjects was
accomplished by the Navy psychologists and the military records. Many were convicted murderers serving prison sentences and they were put into this program. Yet here we go. So he's arguing that in chapter eight that Henry Lucas was probably one of these these people in this kind of a program. And the military is ruthless. You have to understand that too, Like they're just as ruthless as the scientism of Bertrand Russell.
Like they don't have any qualms of I mean, they're in the business of killing people.
They weaponized everything.
Right, So you know, to a lot of people, this is just sounds so you know, well, we're American, we wouldn't do that. You know, we have the Wounded Warrior Project. We go back and grab our wounded men, we carry them back, right, But no, that's not really I mean, obviously a lot of people in the military are good natured and would do that. But that doesn't mean that that's the modus opera. And I have the total totality of the military. I mean, there's you know, it's compartmentalized.
There's all kinds of secret projects and stuff like this, and so you know, Dave just kind of lists a whole bunch of these characters that seem to pop up around the same time. And you have Berkowitz, and you have I think he mentioned Jim Jones or in some capacity. I don't know that Jim Jones was necessarily atary connection, although we know that he had the connection to Dan Miturion, who was the CIA guy down in.
Guy.
Yeah, hello, can you hear me? You're you're getting really you're cutting up really bad? Have I Now, No, it's just super staticky.
Okay, let me give you and they give you a call back. Okay, yeah, clear it up.
Than uh so, Yeah, I think this is a chapter eight is one of the one of the more important chapters in the book because this is where he's talking about they're called CTS criminal. I don't know what that stands for, but these are the people who are in the Phoenix program and they're they're the ones that are trained to they're kind of profile to be the psychos, and then they're kind of let loose obviously the awe into the offices of psychological terror against the Viet Cong.
And then these people come back, and you know, they're already known to military, so they could be put to all kinds of use, right, And that's that's a very enticing theory, I think.
Because what do you do with these men once they come back?
What do you do with these guys? Right? And so anyway, that's that's I'm flipping through the chapter. So that that was a really important chapter. And I didn't know anything about the Mathea mortros culled. That was totally new to had heard of it, but that was new to me. And then so you just realized that there's so many examples of this stuff that it's kind of just been
forgotten in the you know, in the news. Like I remember this back in the eighties or nineties or whatever it was, but in the eighties, but you know, we were told that there was that was all a Satanic panic created a by Roaldo. There was no real Satanism, there was none of this. It was just a panic. Yet throughout the eighties and nineties, the Juarez was the
world capital for missing women. And I actually went and looked up a lot of Dave's claims and articles on this, not only because I had traveled last summer too California and stopped in El Paso on the way and I saw Juarez and it made me think of the movie Cicicario, and I was thinking, good grief looks so awful over at Juarez. And in Cecario, the story is that the FBI girl is tricked into working with this military out
of Shae. She's out of Shae for a military outfit that's run by the CIA, and she thinks that she's going to take out a drug dealer assassin, and really all that what what was happening was that the CIA was taking out a rival drug dealer yea, And so they do the FBI girl anyway, so that all takes place in Juarez in the in the movie. Yeah, I'm sitting here eating this chapter in Dave's book, and I'm like, this is straight out. This sounds just like Secario. And
you know it's not hard to believe. I mean if you go and you you know, you look at the border wall there in El Paso when you look over into the water as it just for a second, it looks like a hell hole.
Well, they got to keep it a hell hole because it's also a good source of.
Cheap labor for the Well, that's what Davison points out too, is that this is a big part of NAPTO was being able to move all the sweatshops there. But you know, he argues that there's a lot more going on that it's not just sweatshops that you know, the women are going missing for a reason. Yeah.
Well, yeah, that Rancho Diablo, which is an interesting name.
For yes, that comes up in here too. Yeah, that's is that the one that's connected to the mapa Moros.
And there was rated by the Texas Rangers eventually, yes, exactly, and they found bones all over the place, and again for years, people ignored it for years. That's just a rumor, it's a it's a myth. And I think that's the one that Henry Lucas talked about, isn't it. And Henry Lucas is an interesting story because you know, he's supposed to be the serial killer because he teamed up with two three different people at a time. One of his partners, tool otis Toole, who has been linked to the death
of Adam Walsh. And everyone knows, you know, the uh uh most want what's that show on Fox? Uh? Not most wanted? What was it? Walsh? He'd had that show on.
Fox News America's most wanted.
Of course, that was in nineteen eighty one. His son missing a sears in a Roebuck in nineteen eighty one and the boy's head was on floating in the canal otis tool was taken in for questioning for that crime, and the police at the time lost the machete and even the I believe in the automobile that he had used, and they let him go and he and he was in prison again later on, and he supposedly confessed to
that crime. And if you know, you're probably too young to remember, but I remember that very well because that was one of these national stories. We started getting national stories in the eighties about missing kids. We didn't get those in the seventies as regional. And it he was one on Phil Donahue Show and all this, and you know, it became a crusade about missing exploited children. And of course the fact that the head was separated, you know,
suggests some sort of maybe satanic thing. But this gets into the sort of the alchemical I guess, element of the Serira Chillar phenomena that Michael Hoppin gets into. But even Dave McGowan talks about it creating fear, creating an adami society where kids can wander, go out in place, communities no longer cohere. This just getting it out there like that would terrify the community. And it was.
It was.
It was a trauma for the entire nation the way the media covered it. And and what's strange is, of course this Jeb Bush, the governor of Florida, otis tools arrested the governor of Texas. But again, in all the cases, whether it's the same thing with John Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey Dahmer, otis tool is inexplicable, complete police incompetence, the failure to follow up on things. And that's what he points out, you know.
Yeah, and this comes uh to the four especially in the case of Oh my mind just went blank. I watched the after I read the book, I watched a four hour TV movie.
Oh that was on John Wayne Gacy with Denny Right.
Yeah, So here he's essentially now that the TV show moved. The TV movie kind of hints at it, but not really.
They don't go into the fact that he was seems to have been operating very well with the local police, you know, as if maybe he was maybe their guy, you know what I mean, like their guy to take out people, because if there was a gay prostitution slash drug ring, then presumably in that kind of a setting, you're going to be worried about narcs, and so you know, you might need to have somebody around to take out
the narcs. No, I don't know if that's exactly what was going on with him, but but I mean that makes that makes sense in terms of the police and competence and the fact that he was this very prominent member of the community and the j CS and you know, all these civic organizations that he was a part of.
David Guta makes a point in the book he talks about the who idea of the serial killer profile. He says, most Americans are probably familiar with what is considered the classic serial killer profile. This was the notion for a first put forth by the venerable FBI, which coined the term serial killer and pioneered the concept of profiling in an alleged attempt to understand the phenomenon of the mass murder.
It appears to be the case, though, that the concept of the serial killer profile was put forth to largely misinform the public. And if you scrutinize these cases, one can't help but agree with the mister McCowan on that point, because none of them like to buy buying torturing, kill killer, none of us, none of us supposed to kills follow
any profile. And that's one that's the case of hay Stacking put potentially because one of those first kills was this military guy who told his son that someone's after him, and the whole family was wiped out, his wife who was trained in martial arts. Two dogs I think were killed, another son and him.
Right, and Dave makes the argument that it looks a lot more like a actual operations trained person, Yeah, came in and did this, as opposed to you know, this weird creepy guy that's just kind of you know, stalking around the neighborhood. You know, like like we're what we're told it is.
And uh, the you meant in your talk you talked about the Zodiac killer you know, and how of course, how again, well, there's a boot that was identified as being a navy issue or something, right, right, so military, And I guess that seems that there again, that seems to be a case with a lot of people doing it, some of them some of the people.
Yeah, right, yeah, like burke Wood said, and then burke Wood says, oh, I was at the working at the behest of a larger satanic cult.
The of course, sena same case came on later, that was the seventies and Maury Terry's book Positive Theory that it was a cult doing it, and he just Burger with himself said he was only to the shootings, right, And Michael Hoffman sort of examines that case and talking about all the evidence suggesting that it was indeed multiple, you know, perpetrators.
Well, one of the points exactly one of the points of Oliver Stone slash Quentin Tarantino's movie Natural Born Killers is that the media is really what creates and gives everybody the impression of the serial killer. So I mean, I'm not I don't know how cognizant they were of Dave's book, but I'm saying or Dave's word because I think that that that movie came out when I was
in high school. But the point of the movie is that the media makes these people in two stars, that makes their media creations, is what I'm trying to say. And so that once again shows the role of mass media in terms of sciops. Because you know, if Dave's thesis is right, then that's why we don't see them anymore. They're not needed anymore. That's where did all the zero killers got? Where are they?
Yeah, the work, the work's been done, I guess exactly the getting into the the why this you look at it? When the serial killer emerged against the late sixties, I think the Zodiac Killer was probably we're at you at the the salvo. The Boston Strangler another case where none of the doesn't fit any of the profile. In fact, people think he went to prison for his being the Boston strangler. He didn't. He was convicted for another crime.
And I think it was weird as f Lee Bailey was his lawyer who presented the strange defense that he that he was not innocent, not guilty of the crime is charged because he was busy strangling somebody. I think that was his defense.
Wow.
But d Salvo himself looks like some sort of mind control victim. U. Yeah, and there's only there was no age, women of all ages. There's no profile to it, and it's just one of these weird cases.
Oh. By the way, Ted Bundy also is one of says claims that there were other people involved. Yeah, so that it was he wasn't just him as the loan gunner.
Mm hmm. And that's another thing to remember. He's able to break out of prison and kill multiple girls at a sorority. And I mean it's like, how does he breaks out of prison and able to same thing Richard Speck remember his case, and he broke into the nurses dorm or something and was able to murder multiple girls as they waited. I mean they were like locked in a room and waited. Uh.
Interesting, but I don't remember the detail. But I remember you noticed this coming up too. And Richard Ramirez' case. He he said to have been trained by his relative who was a military killer of some sort.
Yeah, in Vietnam. Was in vietnamause I think his cousin, the old brother or something. Yeah, it was true.
And then Bobby Joe Long is the cousin of Lucas.
That's all the family. But look at the context when this is happening, is we're talking about the nineteen sixties, the Vietnam War, and what the Vietnam War represented a lot of motivations for that war. Wasn't the domino theory, you know. Obviously, one was big war contracts milled, a lot of spending Kellig Brown and Rute, a lot of harbors to be dragged, a lot of helicopters get shot down and maintained and replaced in these things. Another motivation
for the war chrismas heroin. We've talked about that. But another one I think Chris, when I talked to Chris Milligan, he comes up with the theory that the war itself was intended as a trauma for society. It's society to kind of create a divide between generations. Yes, this gets discoes, you know, they broader theory behind the counterculture. And order to get the counterculture, you needed a war to protest.
And so the overall trauma of that war. Of course, within that war and the war itself provided a great opportunity not only to experience to test various weapons, weapons systems, weapon platforms, the most of psychological warfare. Of course, Doug Doug Valentine's work on the Phoenix program is invaluable in understanding the Phoenix program. What his intent was was to counterinsertainty program to destroy what referred to as the civilians
infrastructure of the Viet Cong. Of course, what that really means is on the ground is killing a lot of innocent people, torturing a lot of people, terrorizing them.
It's what you see in Apocalypse now. Yes, yeah, yeah, and that's of course created by William Colby. And I just lost my train of thought.
I was going to say, well, the implication is that if in order to subdue the civilian population of Vietnam to achieve whatever reject of the US government had in Vietnam at the time. Oh yeah, I'm go ahead, I'm sorry.
I remember now. So yeah, what you start to notice is that these operations that are run for foreign psychological operations.
This is what I've been noticing the last couple of years, especially when you study the phenomena of the Color revolutions and Arab Spring and then all that kind of stuff, And then you also look at the School of the Americas and the Desk squads, and then you start to realize that that the foreign ops are kind of test tubes, and then maybe it looks like at times they'll they'll bring that back home and do it mastically. So it's
not this is a pattern. I guess it's been going on for a long time, That's what I'm trying to say.
Yeah, and it's attempted to destabilize, and of course you're going to destabilize Honduras or l Salvador or Peru or Chile in a different way that you destabilize you know, Springfield, America, you know, Los Angeles. But uh, yeah, so the idea of the Phoenix program. Obviously things like the I don't know, Department Home Security grew out of the Phoenix program. The ideas before it, you know, the basic idea of these whole idea of of fusion centers is an adaptation of
the Phoenix program to model people. So all these so these things don't go away. They're you know, they're you know, they're tested and they're modified. But the idea of perhaps uh, destabilizing the home front for for a particular reason, for some sort of as MIKEA. Hofflin Systems of Alchemical process so so to debate or degrade, to break down, to atomize the civilization and the community. And obviously you get that with the fear of crime and the serial killer
the he talks about it. Uh yeah, of.
Course, that's the grado, the blackening.
There you go, yeah, yeah, you're right exactly. Of course, many serial murders are nothing more than the work of a single individual acting on a graphic horror movie he saw, or responding to a powerful psychotic impulse, impulses for aggression and predation. But many other serial murders involved the cult, a cult protected by the US government and the corporate
media with strong ties to the police. These murders, you know, obviously you're starting on John Wan Gacy's evidence of that these murders are actually intricately choreographed rituals, performed first on a very intimate, secret scale among the initiates themselves in order to program them, then on a grand scale amplified and calculatul and caculably by the electronic media like natural
born killers. Right right, yeah, So there you go, and this one gets in the end, what we have is a highly symbolic ritual working broadcast and millions of people, a Satanic inversion, a black mass where the pews are filled by the entire nation, and through which humanity is paganized, brutalized, and debased in this negrado phase about chemical process. Yeah, so there you go, you're right, yeah, pressure you remember that? Yeah?
Uh And well, like I can see reading that if you're just like an average Joe, you know who just what is this guy talking about? But the uh and you see that in burker Ritz, You see that in uh in Bundy, you see it in John Wayne Gacy and all these things. Jack the Ripper, Yeah, Jack the Ripper is uh uh he chases the back duffer who the guy's Laura gall I think was his name.
Yeah, one of these like high level British Mason.
Free Mason abortionists.
Yea.
And the point is, and he makes the point in psychological warfare and secret society's suicide and psychological warfare is this sort of process won't work in a society that's healthy. So the study has to be broken down bit by bit gradually, where if society gets brutalized and aren't brutalized enough and did great enough, then it does work, because a healthy society will have a natural defense mechanism for these things.
Yes, he uses the term theater of cruelty. So the whole nation or the whole society becomes like the horror movie and it's intended to brutalize, and that that kind of goes It's a trauma based mind control on a mass scale. And so in Dave's book, he talks about the blooding. He's I'd never heard it called that. I've just always heard people say, you know, people that are severely disturbed, like these killers, you know, they're just traumatized.
But he calls it a blooding that at a certain point in their lives, when they're younger, they're intentionally exposed to the macabre and to something bloody or traumatic. Do you remember what I'm talking about.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Yeah. Like you know, there's sixteen and they get a job at a morgue or something and they're like dealing with cadavers and then you know, weird stuff's going on, and you know, this is I'm not saying that everybody who is a mortician's evil. I'm just saying that in the cases of these people, He's noted that as a consistent pattern that you know, they had some sort of grotesque exposure you know that scarred them I guess in some way at a formative period in their life.
Yeah, And he makes point what this, what these uh, what this trauma creates is? He says, it's a what we observe in the population today. Are there three destructive symptoms of persons whose minds are controlled by alien forces? I guess what he means by that is the psychological warfare amnesia, i e. Loss of memory, abulia, loss of will, and apathy loss of interest in the events vital to
one's on health and survival. Amnesia, abulia, and apathy are nearly universal amongst today and gaining a greater foothole each passing day. This and this is done again through the electronic media, through entertainment. He even talks about what breads and circuses and the effects.
Of that Negrado process. Uh. It's a page sixty seven that may have been where you were reading. But he says, in the end, we have a highly symbolic ritual broadcast to millions of people, a satanic conversion of black matter, where the peues are filled with the entire nation, the Negrado phase. Then he goes to say. The French adept Antony and Are Todd, architect of the Theater of Cruelty,
wrote about this in terms of the group mind. Aside from trifling witchcraft of country sorcerers, there are tricks of global who do in which all alerted consciousness participate periodically. That is how the strange forces are aroused and transported
to the astral vault, to that dark dome. Now this all sounds kind of crazy, but what the guy's saying is that when you have a huge event like the whole nation's fixated on Manson or the whole nations fixated on Zodiac or nine to eleven, that it's understood that
you can reason from the individual to the collective. So if you have an individual who is traumatizing because he's fixated on you know that the shock that happened, that you can do that same process on a mass scale through having everybody's energy and focus, you know, an attention on you know, whatever this gigantic so called crime is, z Yeah or Manson or whatever, and that what that does is then that everybody's participating in this process of
being being ritualized. You're you're being You're going through the ritual process. I've written a bunch of articles on mass media is like a ritual process. But but anyway, that's
what that's what happens saying. Is that just just hammering home that point that that I've been arguing too, that you can you can reason from the individual to the from the micro to the macro scale to understand and that's exactly what they did with the kulture is they've expanded the the individual studies to the mass you know.
Yeah, same, not just through the h with drug distribution and also with meat, mass media and psychological.
Warfare exactly right.
Yeah, Yeah, here's the part he says it much better than I said. He says talking about he's talking about revelation the method, and talking about why would they reveal what they're doing? How would that serve the uh, the interest of the cryptocracy? He says, why would the perpetrators want to their secrets revealed after the fact, even if
it is years later? The question, sorry, the the question can only be definitively answered if one has an understanding of the zeitgeist, which overseers in the cryptocracy have partly manufactured and partly tailored their own operations to coincide with As I've pointed out, secrets like this were rarely revealed in the past because traditional people had yet had not
yet completed the out chemical processing. To make such perverse modern revelations to an unprocessed, healthy, vigorous population possessed of will, memory, adherence to their deepest inner intuition and interests, and intense interest in their own salvation would not have been a good thing for the cryptocracy. It would have proved fatal to them. But to reveal it after the acts of secret, I'm sorry, oh sorry, But to reveal it, you know,
players after they've been processed. I lost my quote there. Well, basically to reveal it later after they've been processed, they can't respond to it, and then they fall into that when he was talking about loss of will, loss of memory, and apathy, and they can then be you know, they can then be manipulated.
Yeah, it's like the hypnotist with the victim there, you know, like Spengali. This is the government of Spengali and you're the beautiful young maiden you know, yeah, in the population exactly.
Yeah, but again you're and we're talking again, what's going on again? It's which why does would go, it's the serial killer would come on the scene. In the late sixties and the height of the Vietnam War, and going into the seventies, you have the economic crisis of the nineteen seventies, the closing of the gold window at the end of Breton Woods, the debasement of the dollars and coincides also the cultural debasement of the of the American people.
This feminism, the promotion of perversion like gay rights through planned parenthood, these things. This is trending society upside down and making everyone confused. The uh targeting of things like the family that was that occurred would also lead to further degradation also for the trauma, which would complete the process. What you're seeing now, the confusion we're seeing exactly.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, the the alchemical process includes the period or the stage of androgyny, and that's ultimately the meaning of the bathroom met symbol altheum that is, androgynists has both genders. And if you listen to a lot of interviews with these people who are really into this trans stuff, and I'm speaking kind of across the board, like if they're into transhumanism or trans maybe well maybe transvestite.
But there's there's some pop culture so called icons who have uh watched documentaries on who talk about their their beliefs and why they wanted to change their genders, like this weirdoh Genesis p Orridge, who's a kind of a punk figure, post punk or whatever you call it just makes noise. The guys mentally eat unstable obviously, but he went through the gender process or to some degree gender change excuse me, reassign or whatever, and he's he goes
into it and he starts talking about alchemy. He says, well, I'm a fervent believer in alchemy, and I believe that in the original state of whatever the divine was or whatever we evolved from, that it was neither male nor female, or in some cases they'll actually say they believe that it was female that we all evolve from, like some sort of feminine primal cell. So you get In other words, it's all based on nonsense. It's all based on myths
and gnostic fables. But they will say that since and this isn't neo platonism too, and platonism, that the original unity could not have any distinctions or particularities, that couldn't have masculinity or femininity, so it had to be that that has to be the state that we got to get back to. Right, and this fits all into the stuff that Huxley talks about openly. So you have to
we have to get rid of distinctions. That the enemy of the future will be distinctions, distinct nations, distinct genders, distinct racis, distinct religion, distinct claims. All that has to be destroyed in the name of unity and globalism. That's literally what Huxley says. So they are where of alchemy. In fact, I think even Kestler in Ghosts of the Machine talks about the whole process is alchemy. And you say, well, they're scientists that don't believe in medieval alchemy. Well, it's
those are just terms for the same process, right. So if you you know, if you take, if you're taking genetically modify, if you're if you're taking a fish scale and putting it into a tomato to make the tomatoes skin stronger against pesticides, you're not doing anything different than what a medieval alchemist wanted to do. He just didn't have the means to do it or the technology do But that's at least what he was trying to do
was you know, mess up creation and whatnot. Uh. And that's really what alchemy is is just the the the attempt to it's the domination of nature through technical ultimately at the chemical biological level. Uh. That's that's what I read alchemy as. So. Yeah, I mean there's all this kind of spiritual stuff that people try to tack onto it. Of John d would say, oh, I can turn base matter into God, you can become God through my alchemical steps,
and enoch in magic. But I think a lot of that stuff is just they were just con men.
You know.
Alchemy is is more so chemistry. That's what it eventually becomes, is the it's chemistry. But but what is so fascinating is that even if we deride or laugh at the notion of alchemy, you know, what the establishment is doing, what genetics research is doing, what bioengineering is doing, what geoengineering is doing, is actually you know, creating the the monstrosities that the alchemist talked about. Yeah, not liberal Well I don't know what they actually do in clone labs.
Who knows what they're doing. But when we look at you know, sinomics, and we look at the aborted fetal cells being used for the flavoring in pepsi and four the vaccines, which is all true. You know that that's alchemy, that's dark alchemy.
Yes, you also made it interesting because in your talk you talk about serial killers, and Michael Hoffman a point that's basically it's the promotion of thanatosis, So the cult of death, it's being promoted in all this h and you mentioned well, women with multiple abortions and how sort of the.
That's never mentioned as psychopathy.
Yeah, but he makes it's very fun because in psychological warfare, secret society and psychological warfare. He says, of course, no matter what her affiliations, Sharon Tate's murder was a heinous crime. It's interesting to note that while much is made of the murder of her unb baby as being the most horrible part of the Mason gangs are called violence, women who pay physicians to kill their unborn babies are not regarded as guilty of any satanic act, heinous or otherwise.
With the sacrifice of Sharon Tate's unborn baby somehow a ritual precursor for the coming mass sacrifice of unborn children, which was subsequently legalized by the United States Supreme Court. So this was August nineteen seventy nine. Of course, for the Wade is January nineteen seventy three. That was an interesting point.
Yeah, yeah, think about and here we are now with Kurt Gosmill, m guys like that.
So so, I mean, people, people might balk at the idea of ritual and in power behind these kinds of acts.
But if you I'm not saying that shamanism is true. Obviously I don't believe in shamanism, but if you read the approach that shamans have, or the how they go about their process of understanding the world and their ritual process and all that, even though I think they're totally wrong, in a way, it's perhaps spiritually speaking, a little more closer to the mark because they understand that, you know,
they're tapping into entities on the other side. And we would laugh at that, bulk at that in modern America, we think that that's so superstitious and stupid. But you know, there are many many indigenous tribes and shamans out there in the world, and many of them still take hallucinogens. This is being promoted in our country I've had bad experiences on hallucingens, so I know directly that you know, you're tampering with the psyche and you're tampering with your spirit,
and that's a dangerous road to go down. And I also think that the LSD was a big part of it, that that just as the shaman goes through an initiation, the promotion of LSD I think was a kind of ritual process because again and when Gordon Wasson and you know, these characters went and got the ergots for the creation of LSD at the Sandels Pharmaceutical Corporation, they were also aware of what the shamans were able to do when
the shamans would initiate people. So you cannot divorce these drugs from that process, even though even though we tend to think of them as divorced from it, like oh, yeah, we're just partying, we're just hanging out, and I'm saying that, No, there's an actual power behind these things. That's very dangerous, and that's why so many people go crazy and you know, jump out of buildings and plunging to their death, and you know, see, you know that they get lost in
other realms in their mind, they're crazy. You know, all that stuff happens for a reason, because this is very dangerous and basically what I'm saying is a satanic is what I'm trying to say. Yeah, I'm not saying that drugs in themselves are always bad. Obviously, nothing that God created in itself is evil. But what I'm saying is that the mass promotion of these things and the pharmaceutical usage of these things, I think generally speaking, is not for human well being.
Yeah, well, that's if you look at the how many college students I think John Rapperport did I think had an article talking about how twenty five percent of college students are receiving psychotic care. Yes, and they're being dyna and they're given you know, psychatrific drugs to deal with their problems. When you know, anyone looking at why a freshman or sophomore college might having might have living problems because they're away from home for the first time, not
doing well. Maybe they received a bad education, poor education in high school. Maybe I don't know. Maybe you know, they're very guilty because they're hooking up too much. Maybe they're you know, all types of things that have nothing to do with uh, that can that can be dealt
with through pharmacology. Yeah, but the schools themselves have become not only uh uh instruments for for debt bondage, you know, predatory loan institutions, but they've also become a mass mic control operation, not just through just do poor education or indoctrination, but through drugs.
Apparently, right right, I did. I would recommend people too. I did an essay or an article I don't know, four or five years ago, but I can't remember the name of the times, something like Masculine Feminine Wisdom or something like that, and it's about the drug experience. And I'm actually arguing against the use of hallucinogens because I see them as such a spiritual danger. Nobody talks about
them as a spiritual danger. And that's what's very surprising to me, because you can watch the BBC documentary as a whole series of this guy, Bruce Perry I think is his name, and he just totally really stupid on his part, went and found like twelve, ten or twelve different indigenous tribes and he went through the ritual process of all these tribes to be initiated in and most of them involved the usage of hallucinogens and pretty heavy
talksins at times. And you know, he describes this process too, and he really he eventually came to realization that it was all it was. It couldn't really be divorced from its spiritual significance, and and it ended up being a bad thing for him, Like he felt like he had to go get like psychiatric help eventually after he had done all this, which was completely stupid. I mean, I can't yeah, assuming that he really did all this, that it wasn't like a BBC put on or something. Yeah,
he really did this. You know, he had to get psychiatric help, and you know, he had experienced too much dark stuff. But you know, I swear on it that it's real. You will you will encounter dark things. Not every time, not every single person. I can't speak for, because it's it's more of a like you kind of take this inner journey and you're kind of forced to deal with the issues that you have. Now, some people think that that's a positive thing and that psychology should
utilize these things. I don't think it is. I think that's a trick. I think it's totally dark. You look at the history of the church for example, when the church would do its missionary work and they would find these indigenous tribes and so forth, they were doing this. It's almost always the same thing like that the Shamans who are have been the blast of their mind on these drugs and try to control the people through these drugs.
Uh.
They they're not These are not healthy people. We have this mistake and assumption that oh, all the innocent, the noble savage right of Rousseau or something. That's not true. These people are not the noble savages, so that that all needs to be I think debunked. And who's the woman who did the the famous anthropologist to Margaret Meat. Margaret Meat, her stuff is debunked too, that she.
Was, Yeah, Chris, she was the spouse of great Greed Bateson who weaponized anthropology. Yeah, it was all done to exploit primitive people. Then the only problems they look at us as primitive, the general public is primitive being for being manipulated.
Uh.
I well back if you doctor Hans Uder, and we were talking about very thing actually, and he's talking about you and Cameron and his some of you and Cameron's research over there at the Alla Memorial Institute or to see if psychosis could be well, uh, it could spread like a disease, like a contagion.
Mm hmm.
And well it's interesting because, like anything, if it could uh under the pretext of trying to contain the contagion, they like a buy weapon, they'd seek to weaponize it. How can you can you spread psychosis like a contagion
through society? And I think they have and I think the serial killer, terrorism, these things fear is in a way doing that because people lose their critical faculties and that you can see that as a sort of a psychosis how people respond to these threats that were told exist. It's it is a certain psychosis mass communication. I mean christalpher for Simpson's book the uh the Science of Coercion, talks about the whole study of mass communication. It's refinement,
which for mass manipulation. And this goes back to the Princeton Radio Project. In the world of the worlds and these things, you know, yeah, it's not there to enlighten or educate. And a lot of these these figures, I mean, whether they're they're put up there to inform us and educate us, they're stage actors, they're they're they're they're spooks, the s S agents like you know, you know, mm hmm, yeah. People have trust in these in these institutions. It's it's amazing,
you know, out of ignurse. I guess I suppose, you know, right.
And another thing too is you can't overlook the the the drug aspect of a lot of these killers. So a lot of these guys were drug addicts or are on drugs or.
Were on drugs.
So you know, like Manson for example, Manson was bombed out of his mind on LSD for for all these years. Uh, and you know he's not he doesn't even really seem to be president. Like I don't think that that guy, whoever he was originally that persona is gone. Yeah. So I think that also suggests again a connection to not just the counterculture and the sixties lifestyle or something like that, but or the hate Ashbury lifestyle, the flower child lifestyle.
But you know, I think that suggests more is at work, right, I mean, because if you've got guys that have been through these institutions, the prisons, Vacaville, mental institutions, the juvenile institutions, and they've been given or on who knows what hallucinogens. I mean, I just I don't think that you can underestimate the intensity of what can be done through the
chemical concoctions that can be made. I mean, you can, you know, especially back in the fifties and sixties, before people really knew what these drugs were and what they could do. I mean, I tend to think that there's
probably a connection to the UFO phenomenon as well. This is just a speculation on my part, but you know, a lot of the experiences that people have on LSD or d M T or ayahuasca and all these different ellutions, they tend to speak like they're talking to aliens too, right, if they think they're they're communicating with the gods or
the aliens. So it could also be the case, just throwing it out there, what if a lot of the people who think that they interacted with UFOs they could have been given drugs and it would it would be very easy to simulate or cause someone to believe that in the midst of a serious drug trip. Yeah, I mean, that would be very easy to do, especially if you know your farmer brown or something in the fifties and you have no I do what LSD or iahwask Is,
you know what I mean? And uh, you know you're tested on and then you know, all you'd have to do is like turn a fan on outside and blink some lights, you know what I mean. Farmer Brown would think that that was a UFO. I mean literally, yeah, in the midst of and so then he comes on it comes out, Oh, I've seen I've seen the space visitors. They came to me last night. They I was out of my body, had out of experience, all of which all of which lines up with the LSD experience.
That's a great read to. I mean, if you're gonna experiment on someone and just when you finish, when you finish with him, just create like an alien experience and he's totally discredited if he says he guess what happened to me, I was pro by aliens or something.
And then I know or or or uh, you know Dave mentions in one of the cases, uh kids that were that were taking had been drugged as well.
Mm hmm.
And now if you're a child and you've been drugged or given these crazy drugs, these really intense ones like LSD or something, I mean, there's I think you would absolutely dissociate. And imagine if the person who molested you, I mean, they could be wearing a Mickey Mouse outfit, and you know, you could be saying you were molested. I'm not joking, by the way, you could be saying I was molested by Mickey Mouse. I was molested by somebody wearing an alien you know, I was mosted by aliens.
It was just some pervert and alien suit. Yeah, and you have their immediate cover.
Well, I mean using drugs to exploit people. I mean George Hunter White right operations at midnight Climax, using prostitutes to then film the Johns. And he's the one that the famous quote that you know I you know I what was that quote of his? I raped and murdered. I did it all on the under the cover of the American flag. Had a good time doing it.
You know.
This is a great quote from him talking about what he got away with under the cover of national national security.
Mm hmm. So it's was it.
Yeah, they this was operation they did this operation of midnight Climax that people drugged them and filled them having sex with prostitutes and who knows what else I mean here, Yeah, I was I was a very minor missionary, actually a heretic. But I toiled wholeheartedly in the vineyards because it was fun, fun, fun, Or else could a red blooded American boy lie killed, cheat, steel, rape and pillage with the sanction the blessing of the
Hall of the All Highest. George Hunter White who was a counter narcotics officer and also worked with the c i A. It was part of the early stages Jim Carlton operation Midnight Climax and that whole operation of Night Climax. They this was a they had these safe houses or in San Francisco.
Well they just that they bought from the mom they got it from the mob. Uh.
And then you know the sor as the drugs they went kind of with the Olsley Stanley and the Grateful Dead was the marketing angle for that of spreading, you know, seating the whole country with LSD, seeing what the reaction
would be, and the rock festivals, festivals themselves. It's a money pop or woodstock And Dave mcgott made a point, then sixty nine was interesting year because you had the moon landing in July twentieth ninety sixty nine, you're the woodstock in August nine, sixty nine, the Manson killings in sixty nine. It's really all these and they're all syops, you know, and you can see how they're all being a related, how they react, how they would manipulate the
country's emotions one way or the other. I mean, it really is amazing. And you see it from the broader picture, you.
Know, Yeah, I mean, and it's it's very difficult to fathom. But then I but but when you read you know, secret societies and reprogram to kill you, you know, you can really get a better picture of how not only is it entirely possible, but that is, you know, the most plausible explanation for all this.
I would say, yeah, so well, Jay, listen, I want to think I think anything else, I mean, you think we covered it or.
I would like to mention the h the last section just because it's just so funny, bizarre and weird to me, and I've never heard anybody else mention this. But just the character of Jean Badell Bocassa, the puppet ye and who claimed him proclaimed himself emperor in nineteen seventy seven of Central African Republic, And what's weird about that? By the way I went. I went after I read this, I went and I watched a bunch of clips and documentaries on this guy. I want this one a whack up.
But he liked to eat his people. He was victorious over so he would eat his enemies. And then he he fled to France. So a lot of funny the Iatola did France too.
Yeah, he't out in France too for a while. Yeah, a while.
A lot of people flee to France. But yeah, so you know, we think of cannibalism and these kinds of things as out of the realm of possibility, and nobody does that. But yeah, I think that again. You get people whacked out on drugs and they will eat people. Okay, that's my concluding salvo there.
Oh, there was one interesting case they might remember.
Uh.
One of the later serial killers of the nineties was petering out. Was this character Joel Rifkin.
Uh.
You might remember him from the Seinfeld as a character named Joe Wifton and Seinfeld is a joke. He shared the name of a serial killer he carried killed a bunch of processuts up in the New York area.
Uh.
Well, it turns out, yeah, he was an American Syrica nineth ninety four to two and three two hundred and three years in prison for murder murders of nine women between nineteen eighty nine and nineteen ninety three. He is believed to have killed seventeen victims between ninety nine nineteen ninety three. New York City and the Long Island, New York area. Well, it's interesting is Rifkin often hired prostitutes in Brooklyn and Manhattan. He lived in East Meadow, a
suburban town on Long Island. He was a landscaper for William Casey's widow.
Yes, okay, yeah, somebody somebody brought that up the other day on a YouTube video I did. Yeah. And also, don't forget Dahmer hanging out with no excuse me John Wayne Gacy. Well, Dahmer was able to get his high school class like the VIP tour of the Vice President's office, and then he was going to be an up and up and coming GOP guy. And then it was John WAYE. Gacy hanging out meeting Jimmy Carter's wife.
That's right, just after having a conviction for child lasstation. He was already convicted sex offender, and he got the so he got the secret Service button, which usually means they're vetted, so which is even more inexplicable. That's just you know, I mean even more in expled what's interesting. And you mentioned he got the Dahmer got the tour of Walter Monder's office. I think it was nineteen seventy
seven to nineteen seventy eight. Yeah, this may not have may not be connected at all, but if I recall my research, Walter Mondale sponsored a law, a federal law which gave bonuses for child Protective Service personnel when they get kids that are taken out of homes for abuse reasons supposedly, uh, and get him adopted. It's a federal law.
Forget the name of the law itself. Okay, there is Georgia State senator I think it was was a Deborah Schaeffer who was exposed in the corruption and child Protective Service as there was a yes, remember a child trafficking ring. And part of the incentive for these agents that the child pictures was that federal law. They get like a five thousand dollars cash bonus. Each kid is removed from who that has adopted from foster care, which means that kid first has to be removed from a family and
put in the foster care. And she said there was a child trafficking ring being operated under the cover of that of that service largely funded by the federal law. Walter Monduls, the Senator, was a sponsor of that of that bill. Wow, Okay, I don't know if that's connected at all to it, but it's interesting.
To well, it makes sense. But hey, I have a couple of questions.
And of course, Jeffrey Dahmer right going, who was involved in child sex, rape, murder and all that stuff.
You know, so, well, what you think about Dave's book. Do you agree with the thesis that a lot of the serial killer stuff is hyped up? I mean, I think that you know, there are contract hits, and there are these drug gangs, and there is m S thirteen. That's a real thing. But I mean, do you think that do you think do you think the Damer thing, for example, was exaggerated or do you think that it was you know, the way they told it.
That's interesting.
You think he had, you know, bodies in the freezer and stuff.
I see no reason. I see no reason to implicitly trust with the news we reported about that that could all be bs right, and the idea again that gets into the whole reason why that gets to the Mica Hoffman's thesis. These these people may not be as spectaculars as they think they're there aspect spectaculing the way that is gruesome as we're told, because again we're dealing with the media which hesitant sensationalism and of its in and
of itself. But we'll get into what Michael Hoffin says about the we're all seeing the pews of the electronic media, and we're all taking this in and just to reporting us as gruesomeness, gruesomenessness, a gruesomeness, what's the word, the gruesome details is going to have that very effect on us, you know this, we'll talk about it, and has that effect that's sort of a degrading of society in general.
So what would you say, like in Henry Lucas case, what do you think is the most we think is most likely that went down that they just kind of grouped a whole bunch of unsolved ones.
I don't see one man, you know, being guilty, you know, being a bit'll pull off hundreds of murders without he himself getting killed at some point. It's not easy to kill people. I mean it's right, I mean, you can get away with a few times, but killing a human being is difficult. Human being fights back, so it has to be I mean a group of people. I mean a trained killer can do it.
I guess right.
Uh. But you know again, I think I think that that's kind of uh. I think Henry Lucas there was there to close a lot of again, to close the books. One thing that David mcgot didn't include in the books that Kurd afterwards was the the d C sniper case.
John Muhammad is bt K after the book too.
Yeah, after the book as well, he talks about it because the interview, Yeah, yeah, in the interview, but the I was I'm in the area where the d C sniper was. In fact, that there's a lady killed just down the street from my brother's house right now.
There were news stories that he that he left the death card, which is the Special Forces card.
Yeah, yeah, I remember that. And then also the fact that the police chief Ountain, Moncolm mc County Moose, apparently was at the same base as John Allen muhammed out in Oregon. And that's it's weird. Remember that weird message he left for him, that cryptic messages and on the phone he called these comes out on to the police station. Weird leaves us. It was almost like it's triggering And the next day I think he's caught in the sleeping in the car or something.
Right, Yeah, yeah, Oh was there ever a reasoning for why he was doing that.
They concocted some sort of idea where he was going out, he was gonna go after his wife and then create a bunch of murders to cover it up, which goes in that haystacking uh thesis. But they think he again the media went and said, well, you know, they're probably responsible for these murders too. Actually did that? They shore like all these different murders and different states. How John Allen Hamma is probably responsi for those murders as well.
But he he himself had unexplained income. He traveled, kids, went to private school, he went on ski trips, went to the went to the went to the Caribbean several times.
Oh, he was probably a contract.
Yeah, so that's what it sounds like. Uh and uh, it's you know, given the time that happened, it was the fall of two thousand and two, a year after nine to eleven, and I remember the time thinking what the heck's going on? And these weird things were Actually they actually said that look for a white panel van.
Yeah, I remember that.
Now. If you drive on the highways around here, I think every tenth car is a white panel van. What's the I mean.
So that just makes everybody freak.
Out, freak out, Yeah, And so that gets in this whole idea of you know, holdings to the serial killers. I remember joking at the time it was like getting gasoline pulling people like ducking make my wife go out and pump the gas. Hey, honey, can you get at this time?
Yeah?
I want to live.
And it's just as kind of silly as the terrorist story, right, because.
You your chances of being a victim ian more likely getting hit by a car or getting in a car accident. We're getting sniped. But again it's the psychological effect. And of course within those killings was this one lady I think her name is Barbara Franklynn was an FBI agent who was involved in the weapons and mass destruction cover up or something okay, and she was gunned down outside of home depot so that's an interesting case there. But
again it's one of the other things. If you look at all these serial killers, the idea of you being killed by a serial killer, the odds, oh really you better, you more more likely get struck by lightning. And but again the psychological effect. I think David Berkerwitz, the Son of Sam, even the official narrative six six eight victims, six fatalities and how many how many homicides are there are there in New York City every year?
Yeah? Exactly. Another thing too. I remember I was reading some of the pop stuff, like Psychology Today articles a few years ago about quote serial killers, and you know, it's it's a very pc and it's like the serial killers of middle aged white male who wears the the wire rim glasses and he's yeah, yeah, very very neat, tucks his shirt in and all this kind of stuff. And I'm sitting here thinking, well, actually, you can go
look it up. Just the mainstream story. At least, there's quite a few female serial killers that are never talked about, but there are they do exist. There are also black guys who were serial killers that are not talked about. So actually that the I would say that the there are you know Latino killers who are pretty vicious, especially MS thirteen gang types. So the idea that this is like the white male, middle aged white male is the
serial killer is pretty ludicrous. And I also tend to argue too that I think women who have no compunction and have had, you know, five abortions, I don't see why that's not a serial killer either.
Yeah. Yeah, well that goes back to what the Dave McGowan said about the whole idea of by profiling that's there to mislead the public about what the serial killer is. Thing. There's aren't these organic guys that go out and you know, they have this obsession and they're you know, like in Slians of the Lambs, was going after like something, yeah, like Cladish.
Yeah, it's hunting down you know, doctor lector. Yeah. Right.
The myth is they're they're actually on a mission, and the same way in Phoenix, where yeah, they're doing a lot of killing, but there's a reason for it and they may they may just they may enjoy it like in Phoenix. Uh, but there's they're they're they have controllers and the same thing you talk about these M S thirteen guys. Uh where Yeah, there's a cult element to it, because that's how you organize. Hey, that's how you motivate
and motivate and control people. But they have handles there, and they're they're murdering for a reason, right, They're murdering, murdering for a reason. A lot of the black crime they're staring black crime rates in the nineteen sixties. At first glance, that may have appeared to be you know, disorganized or or sporadic, but it turns out that a lot of these these gang black gangs were being funded by the by the federal government through the community Black grants.
And I believe it was revealed in the Church Committee hearings in the nineteen seventies that Sergeant Schreiver, when he ran the the Office of econ Economic Opportunity uh gave a close to a million dollars to this group called the black Stone Rangers, a criminal gang in Chicago, I think. And what the function of those groups was to more or less just to go out create mayhem, create create a lot of crime, to chase out the whites. And this is all part of this program to destroy the
ethnic neighborhoods, the white ethnic neighborhoods. And encouraged the creation the diaspor into them into suburbia. So this is all part of a sort of a strategy tension and destabilization. You mentioned that movie Circario, right, I mean, that's with that James Brow character. He tells the lady FBI agent that they're just down there, you know, you know, shaking
some treaties during trouble to see what happens. Of course, what that really means on the ground is they're going in there creating shootouts on the streets, making life a living hell for the inhabitants down there in Mexico. And you know, in your war as they could care less.
You know.
That's the same way that perhaps criminal activities such as drug drug dealing, importation drugs in the certain neighborhoods in the United States, it could be all part of a sort of a gentrification program.
You know.
That's twenty years in the offense.
Right, Yeah, that's kind of what.
And it's the same thing with uh And that was I mean that one of my points that this was this was this type of strategy was was documented and improven in the sixties with the Black student Rangers. You've mentioned how the the the Black Panthers.
Were radicalized and Richard Aoki.
Yeah, and then taken out when they murdered Freddie Hampton because they got out of control. They've they've done their job, the shelf off had expired, and then they take them out. And when they're taken out, they're used as propaganda for the police state.
Exactly.
In the nineteen seventies you had the Simils Liberation Army, right, which grew out of Vaucaville and Colton Westbrook, and.
And that that with Charles Whittmore leads to the creation of the swat team and federalization of local police.
The police force. Say that whole shootout, which seems which is probably staged. There's some question about Weatherman right, about the growing out of rests and why Billy Aires was never read. You know what guilty as hell for as a bird was this quote? Yeah, you know the government you know, technicality, we can't convict him. And that's a statement of course. He's he's lived a charmed.
Existence, right, with a whole bunch of foundation funding his stuff.
So yeah, So I mean, the the silly killer these this fits right into this. It's the all destabilization and then psychological warfare bundled in with maybe targeted killings and drug running and you know, it's, uh, it's what they do.
Part of understanding this, I think is is probably it goes back to maybe go back to maybe Doug Valentine's book in the Phoenix Program and thinking how would that be applied domestically And that's just how it would be applied domestically here, and how it's an influenced domestic policy with the Department of Homeland Security, the Fusion centers, the idea of you know, manipulating the media these things. How again, how it's then how it's projected through these movies, through
electronic media and promoted. And your your question of regarding or some of these stories exagger the groos, you know, the gruesome details. Are they presented as you know? Yeah, you're right. I mean there's no reason even to you know, you know, to assume that that's even correct. It's just it just goes it's for our consumption, you know, good.
Right, Yeah, Yeah, It's it's very Hollywood, isn't it.
And it's like that, and it's like you know, like the Serira killar area with the heads propped up, I have to buy the dining.
Room at the end of seven where yeah, you know, who is it, Brad Brad Pitt sees his girlfriend's head or something.
Yeah, decapitated wife's head or decapitated air right, yeah, in the in the box there and all that. So yeah, so well let's say, yeah, well, yeah, it was a great talk. Yeah, I enjoyed it. I mean, your analysis was a good program to kill. Is there anything else?
No, I think that that's good. I mean there could be a whole probably, yeah, there could be a whole separate discussion of the secret societies and psychological warfare. But yeah, both of the books dubtail.
Well again, the serial killer phenomenon tends to the coincide with a psychological warfare. The post war era sort of a well, the Vietnam more, the economic problems, the trauma, societal of destabilization. The whole thing was sizon to be turning upside down. And yeah, the old rules didn't apply anymore. Families were breaking up in the hot you know, increasing divorce rate, the yeah, all this stuff, Uh, it's all part of it. It was all part of it. And see it in the in that context, and.
I think it's important to point out too, that it seems to be consistent phase, logical phases and steps. So, like I was saying at the beginning, and the pop culture, you get business plans or phases or steps of what's considered revolution and counter establishment. You know, back then it was smoking dope and listening to the doors and sleeping around free love. Now it's fight the establishment patriarchy's genders that they've imposed on you. Yeah, that's the phases of the degradation, and.
You couldn't get yeah, I'm sorry, as well.
As passing from Oh, the sixties are a revolution against you know, the nineteen forties and fifties corporate man and the you know, the company man, and we're going to be free from all that, and we're going to be anti war. And then it becomes the serial killer phase, right, and then it becomes the war on terror phase. Right, So there's there's no more serial killers, but there's all the terrorists everywhere.
And then there's also the health, the health scares like the AIDS crisis, AIDS hysteria.
Oh yeah, that's a great one, which is mentioned as an actual psychological war preparation.
Yes, yeah, for that very purpose to further the great society, the hyper sexualized society, which is a big part of this, by the way, because the hyper sexualization you get the uh well, you get the violence, you get the serial killer. Sexual sex is a big thing with the serial killer.
Yeah. Yeah, a sex deaf cult is a good way to put it in.
And it's funny how you remove sex from procreation, you immediately start.
To use it becomes connected to death. Death, yeah right, the les petite more the little death. Yeah, as the French term for organizasms.
That's interesting. Wow, I didn't know that. Well, okay, well, Jake, listen, I kept you a long time on to thank you. I know you've been very busy lady, and you've been very generous with your time. I'm really appreciated it. Thank you, thank you, And you'll be headed out soon back to do some more filming. So I wish you, wish you safe travels. Appreciate that, and uh we'll talk later on maybe you're uh later in the spring, early in the summer. See whatever comes up.