Pt 3 - HEATED DEBATES! Charismaticism/Pentecostalism REFUTED! Julius LOVE MAGIC, Unitarian Discussion

Their shouts of joy could be heard throughout the neighborhood. As the prayer meeting overflowed to the front porch, many curious neighbors gathered, and soon others begin speaking in tongues and praising God. The word spread rapidly by the next morning.

So again, none of this is speaking in tongues. It's just an assumption that gloss a lalia is glossa. It's not. One is gibberish, and one is known dialect, and in the New Testament it's known dialect a language. Like when it says that every tribe, tongue, and nation will confess Christ tongue language, it's literally like the lowest tier, just uneducated mistake that tongues is gibberish and not aknown language. And an argument from silence doesn't prove anything. Well, but

Right, The crowd had grown so great that it was difficult to approach the house. The port became a poolpit as William Seymour began to preach to the crowd. This continued for three days and nights. It has been said that during this three day street service, the house shook under the exuberant praising of.

A hungry people.

Even on one occasion, the ports collapsed at the weight of all the people. Services continued, all.

There we go.

It's the signs from God, right, the ports collapsed, people were yapping and flopping and flipping and flapping. That's got to be even though Paul says God is not the other confusion, it's got to be of God, right. I mean, it's just like people put it this way. If you choose not to be educated and not to think rationally and critically. According to the laws of critical thinking, You're

God's telling me that she's who I'm supposed to be with, even though I've been messaging her for fifty days straight and she won't answer none of my text messages. She's ghost to me, but God told me she was my woe. God, but I filtered.

She was the one. How come she's ghost to me?

Please text back?

Please text back?

Right?

You see how silly that says? Well, I felt it. So you want to be run by your emotions and your feelings, You're gonna be an idiot. I'm just using an example of like evangelical goofballs with no game, they gonna learn the hard way. You're gonna get tuck Son.

You'd almost stay and night with healings reported and hundreds of people filled with this spirit.

How do we know that there was actual healings? At this damn shack that collapsed because a bunch of people's hooting and hollering. Who believes that? By the way, if you're a Roman Catholic, Oh wait a minute, I thought, Oh, hold on, miracles prove stuff. Oh I guess the Pentecostal is Zusa Street revival proves Pentecostals because they claim to have miracles. I'm there, we go. I mean maybe that is why Roman Catholics accept the charismatic movement, because they

Per day.

It was determined that a new location was needed to house the growing crowd of seekers. William Seymour and his followers soon found a vacated two story church building. Previous used to stable horses, it had been converted into apartment houses. Upstairs was a large, unfinished barn like room.

On the downstairs, it's.

Address or this this emo music that's supposed to like move me like even the music's all emo, like it's a movie, Like is this supposed to move me?

Was three hundred and twelve.

A Zuzus Street? Now? The first thing I want to know is, wait a minute, were they even trinitarian? Because, like, guys, if you're a Pentecostal, a giant chunk of y'all are anti trinitarian, as you just heard that guy calling in, who was in a nice way surprised by the passages that talk about distinctions in the persons. Right, So let's see we're I'm just curious her because I don't actually

The revival at Azuza stretched from the early morning deep into the evening every day for three and a.

Half the years.

One woman described the services with the following words.

A sound like a rushing mighty wind filled the room, and I was baptized with the holy ghosts and fire rivers of joy in.

Okay, So here we go another woman claiming that she felt a bunch of wind. It could have just been somebody fartening all over, since they're all rolling around, I mean, how do we know this fart wind is supposed to be something divine? I felt the wind. Maybe it was Sister Susie breaking wind love divine flooding my soul.

God also gave me the Bible evidence of receiving this experience and letting me speak in another language.

So again, this is multiple just women claiming that they think they're speaking in other languages. This is the root of all the modern charismatic nonsense. Is women flip flopping and flapping around? By the way, is it a bunch of Is this a black church?

Like?

What is this church?

One?

This Pentecostalism in North America emerges in nineteen fourteen, stemming from a schism out of the assemblies of God. I didn't know that, also known as Apostolic Jesus name Pentecostalism arose from a nontrinitarian view the early origins of the Azusa Street. But Pentecostal preachers like R. E. Mccallus began to reject the Trinity. Okay, so that's what I'm interested in here, So this guy Andrew Ershan. In nineteen thirteen, an Apostolic Faith Worldwide camp meeting was held in up California.

Is just.

It's all over the Bible Belt. Man, it's just sad. And then you got you see all these like four er pound women with the with the buns and the skirts I mean. And by the way, people that are not Bible Belt literate, they will mistake these for Amish and Mennonite ladies. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, very different because Amish and Mennonite ladies, although they have the same portly frame, you will not get anywhere were you a trashy Southern man trying to mac on them. However, one on this

Uh Apostolic Pentecostal Women's there you go, Hey, Jamie, can you have.

Me a coffee?

Thank you?

Jamie? Are you gonna grow your hair out like a one this Pentecostal woman? No, Now, look at this chick over here, she's got hair down to her feet.

Dude, what are you talking about?

Yeah? See, look at that.

Look at that.

That's pretty awesome.

Well maybe just in terms of hair, but I can I can assure you they're not awesome. Can you imagine their drains in their shower? And see? Here we go, here's some here's some ladies right here. This is this is what I'm used to in the Bible Belt. This is are your average homely oneness lady is right here? You want to see it, Jamie's curious I'm talking about they. Look, you've been to Tennessee, you've been around at my hometown.

Good old rocket up rocketdup.

Tanna See here's some men of night girls. But I can't I can't tell see what I can't see what they look like. This is a little unfair because so the pictures that I'm seeing they don't look that that rough. But when you go to Tennessee, I don't usually see Menna night girls under about two hundred three hundred pounds, maybe four hundred three to four hundred pounds. So this is not very accurate here. Let's try this again. This is a little more This is a little more close

World or.

North America, I don't know. It doesn't say just as six million.

Ye oh my gosh.

Okay, So there's that. I guess that's enough of the Azuza Street. Right, we got the basics of it. Let's go back to the calls because oh man, sways, what's up.

Hey, j Crin.

Yeah, just so, yeah, I just wanted to kind of kind of kind of ties into what you're.

Talking about with the Muslim thing. At the beginning.

And also this evangelical they called in who they have no connection to history, so they don't understand, you know that those were Christian.

Places and that's the second oldest Orthodox.

Church in the world was in how it gets pretty sure he's been blown up. But as far as what he said about the and this is why you reacted and.

You said, that's a lie. Orthodox people don't do that.

Cool, you know, and you're on I know you're on YouTube, so we can't get into the JQ thing too much. But like in a lot of those spaces where people are a lot of young men are pissed about the tax funded, legalized invasion of the West. Uh, there are a bunch of people who even have Orthodox icon like we were talking about last time as their picture and they're literally Muslims.

And like I literally.

Jumped in there and the moment I brought up that you know, Christians are not to unite with Muslims, I get shot down and muted.

And they're like all like they just cuss you out, like you want to dog.

Observe the way you're saying that a bunch of Muslims are creating fake Orthodox profiles literally.

And then there's even one guy. He has like one hundred and thirty eight polarists. I won't call him out by name, but it would be I would pay money for you to.

Talk to him.

Well why not, but we need to see who these fakes are.

Yeah, yeah, well so he's basically like a humanist.

But he got he got really mad when I accused him of being Aunanist Orthodox Cannonist. But right after this conversation, interestingly, he changed his name from not being Orthodox Cannist anymore.

And it's always been that. So there's a lot of like fake ass.

Sorry, are you talking about the guy that well, hold on, he's not Muslim? You talking about the guy that's on World War now? Yeah, how is he fake?

Well?

No, he might he may be, Like so he and in these groups there's like three other people who are like, you cannot mention anything about Muslims or they will like mute you and.

Shut you down. And he he does.

He may.

I think he's like you know, born sometimes maybe like the converts.

You must you might be talking about somebody different. Orthodox Cannonist is not Arab and he's not pro Muslim. I've never seen him be pro Muslim in fact, like hold on.

He'll say, like we shouldn't be focusing hold.

On, he's in the chat. He's in the chat. So you're talking about Dimitri?

Yeah, yeah, like you should bring him up?

So yeah, you want to. It seems like he remember that we we can't talk about uh, you know, too much stuff that would you know, we're on YouTube. So Dmitri, do you want.

To come up the other?

Yeah?

How would he be Muslim's names Dmitri and that that's a Russian name.

No, no, no, I'm not saying he's Muslim, But like he'll get into the minute shop when the Chechenians had to team up with the Orthodox and ignore all of the other historical times where we had to impale ten thousand of them, you know what I mean. And it just you know, probably has a lot of Muslim followers, so you won't really like talk about how we're not to you know, in my opinion, we shouldn't be aligning with Muslims because they have a false version of Christ.

And then the other two Orthodox.

People in the group wouldn't even say that Islam is an heretical cult from the seventh century, Like they wouldn't even even say that.

So there's a lot of people like, well, who are the other people in the group You're not talking about Conrad. Conrad would say that no, no.

No, okay. So one of them's name was Doc and he has literally.

The as his as his uh like photo or whatever his PfP, and he's like, he'll scream at you and call you a dog if you say anything about Islam, and so well, anyways, my point is I didn't and I'll talk to Ernetria.

I'm down at disgusting because we talked for like an hour and a half. So I wasn't trying to like throw them under the bus, but I mean, I'll definitely stand up for what I'm saying. I think it's weird that they're like letting these Muslims kind of like it's the JQ thing.

So I don't want to get too deep into it, but you know, the destruction of the West through legalized.

Invasion and then it's all about like teaming up with the Muslims.

So I find your respect.

Switch Jay's streams are not a place for you to vent your schizophrenic babble. Okay, he just spiked up integospels, okay, and the trouble they were bringing into in the so called Christianity. You're essentially committing the same vicens here. Okay, No, not at all, I mean misinformation.

Okay, Well, did you not notice that the other people in that and the group were pretending to the Orthodox, they wouldn't renounce Islam as a false theoretical religion.

Like can you not agree with that?

Your spreading misinformation hereything, I'm saying things that I am not okay for all? In some purposes, you are a schizophrenic.

I'm looking. He's just attacking my character. But how many how many foo? So yeah, he's not going to stand up, stand up, cares about what you think. Okay, period, I'm talking to j right Now've been a.

Fan of Jays for a long time, and I think, uh, I think you're disingenuous, to be quite honest. Anyways, if Dmitri may be uh Orthodox by birth, but it seems to me he's like very humanist.

But anyways, I didn't want to get too far into him.

I'm down to.

Okay, so uh, I mean I've never again, I've not heard Dimitria ever be a humanist, So that to me sounds odd because usually he's calling out like what's his name? That uh, Jackson Hinkel. I've seen him call that out a lot. I don't know, so that that would be odd to me, that he's a humanist.

So yeah, well I recorded the whole thing, and I guess I could send a Q.

Well hold on, So, Dimitri Demetri, I'm not accusing you, but would you like to address that because it just seems odd.

He's essentially lying, that's all. I'll say, Well, what's the lie?

Like, what did I say that it's a lie?

Because none of the people who are saying that Orthodox would renounce Islam. You said that that wouldn't be a that would be an Orthodox belief that I would renounce isla.

You are actually which is which is hilarious that you would do that on Jay's stream.

Not sure why, but I think it's important.

I think it's important. There's a lot of people who are upset about what's happening in Europe.

Well, I mean, you know, to main sure you don't like Islam? Would I can't imagine.

It isn't even a heresy. It's essentially a pagan sick. I don't even want to call it a heresy. It's extremely it's worse than Gnosticism essentially.

Yeah.

So anyways, when I brought that up in that group, all I did was get muted and shot down. And then he after they removed me, which later we did have a Yeah, we had a second conversation. He straight up was like, he seems like a hobbyist. He's probably a jew infiltrator. So I think that's kind of weird.

Well, I mean what he just said, he denounced Islam right there, So what's the problem.

No, that's no problem. That's cool.

I mean that's why I support. But there was other Orthodox people in the group. Truth Teller says he's Orthodox, and Doc says the Orthodox he has a icon as well.

I mean, I don't even know what group you're talking. I don't have time to follow all being all the groups. So like, what do you do you have a point about like Pentecostalism and charismatic stuff.

Well, you know, yeah, I just think it all ties into the Pentecostals don't have any like understanding of history at all. So of course he would say we can't be pro Palestine and all that kind of stuff. But no, I mean that was I think it's I think it's kind of weird that he won't anyways. No, I mean I kind of had a whole I've recorded the whole conversation.

All right, did meet your anything You want to comment there on that?

No?

No, I only came up because I was listening to the space Jay.

You're doing great. It's an amazing space thus far. But I would just yeah, icon't comment on the redundant commentary of these three hundred followischizophrenics here on the X.

I really wouldn't be.

I don't usually communicate with them, but in any case, we'll good have a great stream.

Thanks. Uh, Mike, what's up?

Man?

How you doing?

What's what I mean?

Hey, Jake?

Can you hear me?

Sir? Okay?

How are you doing?

Happy?

Eastern?

Likewise? What's up?

I had a question and I was wondering if it's about transubstantiation. I noticed in a conversation that a Roman Catholic and an Orthodox person we're having where the author.

So I don't know if you're able to like offer.

Well, I mean, the term itself is not a Patristic term, but I don't really even think that's a problem, because you know, John Damascus uses similar types of terminology that's translated in his writings as transstantiation. I think that where as Orthodox we would have areas of like, well, we don't go that far. Is that when you get into the medieval scholastics like Aquinas, they start really trying to define in some scientific way all kinds of things that

No, okay, got it.

Also, you know, just just like you to know that most of the Easter arguing with Bryson about the Trinity, which he continues to deny and continues to display, you know, the personality of you know, Arianism, which is weird because I mean, I don't know, like you, we've done this before with him, and I think we you know, you did this to an extent with him on either a couple of debates.

But is it just worth is it worth it with him?

Or is it just there's no I don't think there's getting anyone getting where with anywhere with Bryson.

So yeah, it's kind of fat.

But what can you do anyway?

You have a good Easter.

You too might appreciate you coming on, and I hope you and your family are well. Heisenberg. What's up man? Read to cover the super chests culper cast two dollars. This is my first PASCA. Thank you Fillion two pounds, Christos and STV. I think we read that one. But Marcus Antonio gifted ten memberships What's up man? In h five bucks? In high school, my girlfriend's family went to a church in Irvine. Oh, we read that the guy who is prophet Ruckus McKinley, who played Funk. I'd actually

You know.

People are like losing their minds that we're trying to figure out who the ultimate issue is and all these things are issues. So, you know, that's a good question. I'm not sure what the I guess everybody has different you know, callings and gifts, right, Like, like some people are just super good at that debating Islam and you know they can keep doing that, I guess, and other people are really good, you know, with debating atheists or whatever,

Y'all?

Still? Am I just misremembering Oca Parish we say indeed? I see, I knew that there was some indeeds we say truly at the Greek Church. I mean, it's not a big deal, it doesn't matter. But I'm just I'm just trying to figure out if I'm misremembering or if oh, the Antiochians at your parents say truly. Interesting, Oh you said truly? Okay, Well maybe now one person said indeed, maybe that's maybe that was the oka we say indeed in Texas. Interesting. I know it's the same. I'm just curious.

The word the word Easta is the goddess Astarra. The word is the same the using spells casting what spells on you?

I mean, just the lowest tier idiotic nonsense. By the way, I will be live in two days if you are in the Florida area, if you'd like to come to my live event metapolitics, god, Hollywood, technology, sexperis and orthodoxy if you want to talk, because I know everybody's gonna come, I don't mind. It's just that like everybody's gonna come and ask the questions about orthodox stuff, which is fine. Yes, I don't care if you want to come ask about that.

Uh?

It looks like it is interesting. I did not know that Thunr's day.

Yeah, Thu thurs Day, old English god Thunor.

Oh, I guess we can't. We can't talk about Sunday. We can't talk about Thursday.

They're all.

It's all we're all worshiping the demons like evangelicals. Man, They're just so it's hard not to well, I'll be honest with like, tonight today I struggled, like and if you see me booting people or like moving on, it's because I don't want to get to the stage where I'm losing my patience. And if somebody's obtuse for like thirty minutes straight and even after that, I show them the problems in the position and they just keep reasserting like they're in some kind of mental loop. They're in

Oh, we got him.

He lost patience.

He's so evil And me look at him, look at him, and look at you.

There we got.

Him, even though I guarantee you, like everybody else in the world, would eventually lose their patients with somebody being obtuse and caught in a glitch for thirty minutes straight or an hour straight, like the Protestant guy the other night. Every time I would show a counter example, he would move the goalposts and his followers are.

Like, Oh, you got you, dude, He got you, dude.

What's up, Heisenberg?

What's up? J How you doing good?

What's up?

I just had a question on your your argument about how like the papacy is circular and how it actually like how it is like it has the same problem that it tries to like fix with Protestantism, that is, like there's like this problem of like interpretation, how you're gonna interpret the pope and just in that whole but type of problem, And I was wondering how how would the Orthodox answer, like, how would the Orthodox be excused from that?

Because the Roman Catholic system is based on classical foundationalism as a specific approach to evidentialism, to temism, to how all of these questions are solved? And you can't be a paradigm level, circular, recursive type of person if you're going to be a Roman Catholic.

All right, got it? Thank you?

And Also I was wondering if like, because honestly, these spaces, man, I think you like, I think you beat the X level like spaces.

I think you like.

I think maybe if you like, try more TikTok, I mean, like you could debate people like allegedly ean or like the Orthodox Muslim because like I feel like if you were to go on TikTok, you would get like a clip every single like.

Well, I mean I've done many TikTok lives. Have you not seen them?

I have? I have not, but I think, like.

I don't know.

Yeah, the problem. The problem is that the TikTok lives and invasions are even worse than here or YouTube. It's it's even more challenging because the people are a grade dumber on average and a grade more extreme. So it's even more difficult than here. So I have to really struggle. What's up branding?

Thank you?

Yes, Brandon with can you hear me? All right?

So my my dad's side was born and raised through history. I'm doing a lot of research here against well, looking we were dealt. His side of the family was from Galician. I know that they're very close to Antioch. I just wanted to know where. And then my mom is straight three generations from Italy, so she's Catholic.

Is well, you know what.

So I'm trying to find my own path here and I'm kind of struggling. Can you just give me an advice on where to go to find some more information.

On that topic?

Like Galician Antioch versus their beliefs and Catholicism.

I don't know what you mean. Well, when you say their beliefs, who are you talking about.

The Catholic beliefs on the Galatians and Catholics. I guess you could call it Roman Catholic.

Yes, when you do you know the church in Galicia or just the place the.

Church of Galatia, like Galician churches and Antioch churches.

Well, I mean Orthodox churches descend from Antioch, Okay, Like Peter sets up the church at Antioch, okay and acts right. So, but I mean I just don't I don't know what so like you're talking about like the history of the history of the Celts.

I mean right, I'm just trying to get further back to where I'm at right now.

I'm kind of like at the point of when Paul was on his route and journey and when all when.

He came to the Kingdom of Galatia and started spreading the word there, and I want to get to the point before that.

I don't know where to go to get to the history.

I don't know. I'm not I don't have any kind of expertise or specialty in those niche areas. So I'm not trying to be dismissive rude. I just don't know. I'm sure you could find somebody who's a historian of that region, but I don't know. Munachi, John, what's up? John?

And John?

You yeah? Can uh huh cool.

Yesterday I talked with somebody and they are Unitarian, and I have not really talked to a Unitarian before. But basically I'm trying to see, like, are they still Christian?

And this is that God?

No, you can't be a Christian and deny the Trinity or the d Christ.

Okay, That's what I'm thinking.

And if you scroll back to about an hour back, we had a pretty lengthy discussion with a modalist Unitarian person. So I would say, scroll back and check that out. Gurr, what's up?

Man?

Hey, hey, so you abandoned the patristic calendar, the very what they the.

Father by the saints because the world.

Okay, good job, Marcel. What's up Marcel? What's up? Dude? I'm mute.

Jesus Christ, brother Jack, can you hear me? Christis Ersten?

Indeed, he's yeah, how does like?

I also like, I mean this is something recently, like you know a lot of Bisley at the multiomensional people, they asked.

You like, oh you're orthodogs.

Oh that means you are pro hamas or propelsty.

I've seen this like like recently, like the first I think it was the first or the second guy who just called it.

The one thing they don't understand is right, not any person who is rational like the other rational flock would ever support an ideology that looks you tasted kill your grape. So even when there are some orthodogs pushed it.

There say okay, let's I'm on YouTube, so we can't be talking about that stuff.

So yeah, So I just want to say even if Christians say, like, oh, they're a proper listing that doesn't mean that you're saying we are Islam, right, I don't.

I don't think they did that.

Yeah, I don't think anybody anybody listens to to nuance. So I try to be I try to be I try to be hyper charitable and hyper nuanced. Right to quote uh loft dog. But yeah, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, Munachi, did we do you already? Vegan skills? Five dollars? Christos pilscrats? See what is the lady singing gibberish and banging on that piano? How would that be a gift to the Holy Spirit? Yeah, that's that's a are That was a bizarre proof from the

Man?

I'm mute? Now we got another man? Who is it?

Can you hear me?

What's up?

Thank you for having me back.

I appreciate that.

Earlier today you mentioned that I was speaking from silence and that there's no mysterious language that individual individual could speak when.

We're when we were having it. Oh my gosh, how about you? Can you pull up one Korenthians fourteen.

Too literally listed when the first time you're on here, I mentioned verse its fourteen I.

Know, I know about fourteen two specifically.

I mentioned that when you came on the first time. So goodbye, h BROSI what's up?

Hey, what's subject?

What's on your mind?

Okay, yeah, Joy, I'm not going to have thank you you meant it's going to be real quick. Just because I heard that other guy say something about TikTok. Please don't ever don't ever do TikTok shreams again. Obviously, I've been following you for years and years, so I've seen every single every single TikTok stream you've done. Obviously, I think this idea comes from all I mean, any like other than people just like actually using TikTok, which you

Of just business.

Tell people, it's like all it does is just gonna get me like enraged with with idiots and then and then people are gonna get mad saying I mean so there's it's just like a it's a cash twenty two.

So yeah, like a man for for whoever this this orthodox Muslim guy is that people get like obviously I have no clue who this guy is. But every time these people, regardless if it's if it's you know, guys that actually do falling consistently or just randos on on YouTube or Twitter, every time somebody suggests like there and this isn't me just you know, like being obviously call it like I tokingly call myself a diar, right, A lot of us do. I'm not like I'm not glazing.

You when I say it's get it's a joke.

Yeah yeah, yeah, but like uh, like what I'm about to say, I'm not glazing what I'm about to say either, Like they're just low tier compared like that, there's gonna

Complete waste of time.

Yeah, I mean I think that I've done probably five multi hour and thank you for that. Appreciate that, h brother. I've done probably maybe five multi hour TikTok streams, and man, it's a challenge, I'm telling you, Like it's hard for me to remain patient with just it's like arguing with thirteen year olds that are drunk and eating a bunch of candy. So it's like thirteen year olds that have sugar high and are drunk and then they're just insane, like how far are you going to get into debate? Well,

Does truth evolve to match society?

It can in some sense, there's difference to the calendar. Okay, here we go, So why don't you just keep making more? Or all right? Cranky around? That was the guy that called in the other day and I was like, are you ah, how old are you? And he's like a new conrat right, and who interprets the cannons? Well, I mean, yeah, I benshops, but John Smith, it's probably the same guy, or it's the black guy. What's up John Smith?

White boy?

And white boy? Hello?

Can you hear us? Indeed?

Is?

Uh?

So? I had a couple of questions.

My first one was, you've mentioned a couple of times about a cannon that uh can't ride horses. But I looked in the rudder and all I could find was that they can't. You're not supposed to attend horse racist? Is that the one you're referring to?

I don't know. It's it's an example that FDA always brings up, all right.

And my second question was I think you've talked about the local cannon and how the Quinn Sex Council has several except the cans of several councils, so it accepts several billigal cannons.

But I think you've said that the one from Carthage is the primary one. M h Uh, where is that? I couldn't find that.

I'm going for memory. I think it's mentioned in the it's either I think it's Trillo. It's Trillo that specifies that it's Carthage's cannon for Bible, and then until Trul I know, but I'm saying that it's also reaffirmed at the Seventh Council. I know that quintessect is Trollo, but I'm pretty sure it's Trillo that mentions Carthage's cannons.

Right, what I'm saying, I don't like I look through.

Tru and see a distinction between Like, I don't think it talks about biblical canon at all.

It just it does though it mentions it mentioned, It mentions the specific Carthaginian synods that it's reaffirming, and one of those is the one that lists the Biblical canon.

Uh.

But what does that have to do with accepting lots and abosol cans as well?

Well, if if there's I'm saying that, let me see if I can pull it up here, right, h okay. It mentions at the beginning those of Chalcedon Sartaca and those of Carthage. And I think that it mentions at a certain place specifically, I'm going for memory, because I don't have it pulled up here. I think at a certain place it mentions which Carthaginian canons it refers to. It's like here it says the Father's assembled at Carthage showed.

You're saying, So, for example, if it's the one nine says the carbon is starting about themisters of the older.

You're saying that that could I'm saying that if you look at Canon two, it mentions Sartoca and those at Carthage, right, and then it mentions those under Nectarius, Archbishop of Alexandria. Likewise, the canons of Dionysius the Great City of Alexandria, and it mentions a bunch of other canonical lists basil Uh, it mentions Cyril. If anyone should be convicted of innovating upon these canons, let him receive the canonical censure. So I'm just going from memory that this is referring to.

Yeah, I was just saying because earlier in that, like, I think it's two lines of it's talking about a lot to see.

You as well.

Well, I would say that I would say that if there's conflicting canonical lists of the canon of Scripture, then it stands to reason that it's it's going to be as Orthodox you could argue that we have some a loose canon, but the universal canon whether if you look at like the fourth century, between the Apostolic Canons and the Church of the Councils of Rome, you have a universal acceptance in that whole century of all of the

Yeah, it's just a question of a couple of books I think between well, that's what I was looking at, the difference between the Council Carthage that has the Biblical canon and well, for example, there's the Senate Jerusalem of sixteen seventy two or there. M well, it basically say it's allowed to see you, plus these other duterical books that.

Allowed to see another man.

So well, I think, but that's that's kind of what I'm saying, is like, basically no one accepted the Laodicean canon or the the list that's laid down in Canon D two or whatever, the Apisolic canons. So even though those both list the doer canonical text like that, that's

Yet understanding the minders saying.

I was just wondering if you had a source for the primary say that a couple of times.

I don't remember where it's I've read it in some some secondary literature. But even if that's incorrect, like, it's still pretty normative that do Orthodox Church accepts, you know, the douter canonical texts and in the Book of Revelation and whatever. This variation is with John Damascus and Canon fifty two. Is it fifty two? I think it is fifty two or is it eighty two? Excuse me of absolute Yeah, it's the one that lists the the Canon Scripture.

You're from Amocus, doesn't revolution?

Yeah?

All right, yeah, they answer my questions.

Thank you.

Yes, let's see here.

So I don't this guy thinks that I'm going to fall for all his fake body accounts. Will have one Followergan Skills. What's up?

Man?

Yes, sir, what's up? Cristalina sp.

Oh Man?

Can you hear me?

I can't?

Okay, So I actually had two questions.

But this one kind of got brought up because you were talking about the Angel of the Lord and the Old Testament.

And.

I was commenting on this YouTube video on Hebrews one where this like, I don't know, he's a torner guy, you know, Monotheus kind of I don't know what what it deal is exactly, but he was commenting on a debate by David Wood and Alex something O'Connor, I think, and it was on Hebrews one, and he says, the past is they're referencing about how God I spoke at various times and to the prophets, and the Old Testament

He's kind of he's addressing.

The way that he's spoken to us in these last days by his son. Is the is the incarnation exactly?

That's what I was that That was my argument is he was the distinction.

Is the preincarnate versus I look the whole chapter is arguing that the son is the creator, and that was the second If the son is the creator, then he If the son is the creator, as the whole chapter is arguing, then he has to be the one that's speaking the Old Testament.

Uh. Yeah.

He refuted to engage with that second part, which says he created the world through his son. I'm like, how could he have created because he was arguing that Jesus is like a prophet or something.

Uh huh, how much?

How did a prophet create the world?

And how is this angel creator?

Right? Right? Right? Yeah? Yeah, I appreciate that, and I don't know what else. Just I mean, somebody's gonna be up to so like, just move on. There's no point in having that discussion. What's up, Scott? Do you want to call in you wanted to speak earlier or we'll go to what's up?

Man?

Yeah? What's up?

Nothing?

So you you invited me on here. You said you wanted to debate.

Yeah, you took issue with me being basically a debate or something that I've been doing for a really long time, and you said that you felt like it wasn't the best way to turn the tide or the needle within culture. What I was disagreeing with you with more specifically, was that if you yourself admit that you're a quote shitty Catholic and not in a position to make these kinds of spiritual judgments, Like, how are you in a position to say that debating is bad?

Because spiritual judgments are not the same as trying to move the needle on a cultural level.

And I don't know why you would.

Think that those are two things that are directly related insofar as you cannot have one without the other.

Well, but what I'm saying is like, if you're going to make assessments of what's virtuous and not virtuous, and what works and doesn't work, like if you're a shitty Catholic quote your terms, not mine, how would that put you in a position to make this kind of judgment call about whether debating is profitable or not.

Because it's got nothing to do with religion.

We saw for what the last sixty maybe even seventy or eighty years, hell, maybe even for a little.

Bit longer than that.

The gears of society have turned, and we have gone in a direction of atheism, secularism at best, and nihilism.

At worst, you don't. You don't think that has to do with religion.

I think it has to do more with the way that cultures shift and the way that people will operate to try and turn those cultures into.

The direction that they're going in.

How does a person combat the massive influence of Muslim influencers and debaters and TikTokers, for example, without debating them.

What's that got to do with you arguing about fucking Catholicism though, because because because like, don't, don't get me wrong, you want to you want to debate Muslims, fucking whatever, do your thing. But like you are literally here on Easter trying to start slap fights with people over what fucking because you disagree with them about the correct way to enterate Christ or the correct church doctrine or dogma or whatever.

People.

The fact of the matter is people see stuff like that and they're like, Wow, these guys fucking suck.

I don't want to be around that.

No, you you may think that, you might think that, you might think that that's why.

The world has changed in the way that it has.

No, you're not even in c people, You're not in a position to make this assessment I'm in whatever position, I feel like you're not in it, You're not in a competent position, and joke like you're not culturally relevant.

Nobody remembers a debate fucking a week or two later.

Okay, So the thousands. So when I go to why are you interrupting me? When I when I go.

To one and people laugh about Jordan.

When I go to churches and I meet thousands of people that have converted in the last five or six years from debates, how does that telling me that debates don't matter and are useless.

I think you're making it up. I'm being honest.

You met thousands of people, you met your you're toring, you're touring the country, going to church after church, and.

Every one of them is like, yeah, dire.

Dude, I saw that debate with this.

With that, you realize that, you realize that we and why are you? Why are you? Why are you? Why are you melting down? When there's literally we just had two thousand people. We just had two thousand people in the live chat here. I've done I've done live debates. I've done live debates and live events from coast to coast for the last five years. And yeah, I've met thousands of people. You can watch a lot of these debates. I mentioned to you in the DMS, the Muslim debate

Four million converts?

Right, I did it? Did I say converts? I said it was watched by four million people, and I met thousands of converts.

Yeah, I mean fucking when I turn on the TV, I see Real Housewive, so fucking Alaska on. Technically, I'll watched it for two seconds, but it doesn't mean it actually had an effect on me.

And that's the point that I'm.

So and so you think that the so you think I'm lying about I'm lying about this.

Culture is what matters. Culture is what matters. And if you're not creating something.

Who are the how is there?

Was?

Just?

What does that even mean? Culture is what matter? Religion is part of culture? So does it? What are you even talking about?

Yeah?

And if religion is not going to tap into the culture in a way that is going to be fruitful.

Then you're not going to have nearly as many converts as you need to be able to count around.

Well, you just accused me of lying when I when I can show you the fruits of the people that are in these churches. Have you ever been to an Orthodox church?

Non?

And I really don't feel like, uh really don't feel like I need.

To go to one, truthfully, Okay, But that would prove to you that I'm not lying, because you can go and meet that. We just had two hundred people in just the UK and one church converted a few days ago.

Sure, two hundred people in a country of how many people?

No, in one pairh that's one example.

Perish, Okay, two hundred people?

Okay, Now do you want to do you want to go? Do you want to go look at you know you're saying that I'm lying about it. Do you want to go look up? How many people at Father Josiah Trnham's parish converted recently?

I don't think it really matters.

Got bell hold on? It doesn't matter? But it is no hold on. You said it doesn't matter.

You're not culturally relevant in the way.

That you think you are.

Okay, but it and that's the point that I'm making. So you're just trying to go after me personally to make slights at me when everything that I'm telling you disproves your accusation that I'm lying. You said I'm lying about thousands of converts. I'm giving you the things that would disprove that, and you're saying I don't care.

I mean, you're the one who's going after people based off of things like say they're Catholicism and things like that.

You know, you, So you're but hurt because I'm going after Catholics.

You go after someone like Razorfist, who's well known for being verbose and hyperbolic, and yeah, so what other crazy things? And when he does what rape? When Razorfist is Razor, You're like, whoa, where the hell did that come from? No, that's that's stupid, bro.

At the end of the day, that's not true.

It has shifted since the fifties or even before that.

The culture has shifted in a way.

Okay, everybody, Why why should we listen to your Why are we supposed to listen to you as some cultural you don't have You don't have any audience. You don't have any audience. Why are we supposed to believe you on cultural analysis? What is your quality? What's your qualification for cultural analysis?

Jesus Jesus didn't have an audience.

So you're what is your qualification for cultural analysis? Looking at the lest looking looking at the last.

The country has shifted looking.

Look, this is the dumbest, This is the dumbest. Once anosense, do you accuse me of being a liar? Listen, you don't care about the counter evidence, you don't care, you don't care about the count right now, you're the one that's cussing me out. Man, I'm just laughing at the nonsense that you're saying.

Uh, I kind of like you're a little shit.

Got to be honest because what you're saying is ridiculous. The whole chat's laughing at You got two thousand people laughing at you, which, by the way, is that all fake, that's made up?

If they're not made up, they're fucking stupid.

Oh, the whole audience is stupid, is all the Orthodox people are stupid?

The ones watching right now?

I guess yeah, So the actual churches that would refute your claim that I lie about all this, you don't care about that.

You see what's happening right now, right I'm trying to keep the conversation on what we dm about talking about.

Bro you called me, You call me a liar? Sitting to you called me a liar.

Dude, just slowly shift in a conversation that you feel like you can.

You call me a liar? Did you not?

The matter is, the Boomers don't look back at church when they were young.

They what are you even talking about? This is like an eighty IQ conversation. The Boomers don't look at what the whole the whole two thousand people are laughing at you, bro, they look.

Back at They don't, they don't.

I don't give a fuck what they think. All two thousand and eight.

And so we're supposed to listen to you about so you want to give spiritual advice and we're supposed to listen to you. You're literally just telling the entire chat to f off.

Yeah you chat?

Okay. So this is Scott Sullivan the m M. A guy who has absolutely no qualification in any subject that he's talking about.

Oh you do I do I need to go? Do I need to go to college? Do I need to get a PhD?

Do you do you do you read at all?

Talk about what everybody has known.

You want to talk about culture, and you have no qualifications in the subject matter? So yes, correct?

What? What?

What qualifications would make you happy?

What any any at all?

What school do I need to go?

Can you give me any example of a single book on culture that you've read?

Uh? Julius and Bulla's The Whole Guest, Modern World, Ride the Tiger.

Well, okay, so you're a perennialist. You're a perennialist.

More of a traditionalist.

Okay. Do you like Julius Evela's discussions of magical butt sex?

Yeah? Sure? Sure?

Is that is that good for culture?

No?

But I think right, the Tiger is good for culture?

Okay? And what are we supposed to go to some sort of a what fascist magical? Uh? Like leader? That's a that's a magician.

Actually, Evola rejected the Fascist party.

Uh.

If you read his Metaphysics of Sexuality, he argues that we should have magical butt sex. So do you agree with that or not?

Well, I've never read that book. Bottom line.

Bottom line is that the culture is shifting in a direction that is not healthy for any of us. And you can sit here and have your internet slat flights, But what are you doing to actually move the needle back into a healthy place?

How about debating all how about opposingated? How about opposing is capture? How about opposing But when I give you the counter examples material, When I give you the examples, you're done.

Fantastic thing. I don't think it's a bad thing at all. Don't get me wrong.

Okay, but hey, the end of the day, he bro I'm blocking you. If you I'm blocking you, we're done. People together, nobody, nobody cares about your low tier nonsense.

What's wrong with the world today is that the.

Dude, you're not even competent to discuss any of this. What you're saying doesn't even make sense.

That's all you're doing. That's literally all you do, man.

And it's all I do is back in my day? What does that even mean?

And make the conversation into one that you feel like you can win.

You can?

You can?

You mean when you accuse me of lying? Understand that, when you accuse me of lying, and then I show you all right, all right, we're done. You're done. That was the dumbest shit I've heard in ages. That was the stupidest bunch of nonsense. He read one level of books. So there we go. Yeah, roid rage exactly, So you'll notice what these people do is like they'll say something like you're lying, it's all made up. There's not people who've converted. And then when I start to give the examples,

They?

Can you hear me?

Yeah?

I just want to totally counter signal that last guy with an idiot. I know you've made a big impression on my life and any friends who are interested again in you know, inquiring into Orthodoxy things like that, just from listening to debates where real conversations happen. I think that's actually what's been lacking in a lot of the religious.

Experience, total nonsets. Like I've literally been here, I've literally gone coast to coast meeting people. So here's the guy if you guys want to go engage this moron, Scott Sullivan MMA, the guy who literally just said f all of you in the chat. He doesn't care you're all idiots, and uh, here's what he actually looks like. And he the funny part was that he's like, I admit that I'm an idiot and I'm a shitty Catholic and you shouldn't listen to me about anything religious, But let me

No, I mean it's not even really worth even interesting.

That was just so stupid.

But I meant, when he's pressed to discuss ideas, he talks about Julius Evola like a fourteen year old.

Yeah, exactly, which like a volat is a clown man. If you read his metaphysics of sexuality, he actually argues that we should have magical butt sex. There's a whole chapter on it. I have the book, I've read it.

No, the traditionless guys like went on and what's their shoe on?

Like their pedophiles like weird.

I mean maybe there's some interesting like right wing ideas, sure, but like as a general worldview, that's going to like spiritually reorient us just like gutter trash stuff.

Yeah, there's a whole chapter in Aros and the Mysteries of Love on magical butt sex and why he likes Alistair Curley so much. So there you go, that's it's not fundamentally a religious problem in society. It's moving the culture, Like, what does that even mean? Chase, what's up? What's up doing?

Hey, it took a second time you. I just think it's funny.

Without any unchanging foundation and guidepost to what's morally acceptable and what's not. Where does where can culture go anywhere? Anywhere and everywhere? And so when you have distorted, incorrect religious worldview that does push perennialism like Roman Catholicism does. Now it's a false religion. What's that going to allow for? It's going to allow for any culture to do anything. So, yes, we want people in every aspect of culture, in music,

Yeah. On top of that, by the way, he just spent twenty minutes trying to debate telling me that debating is stupid and futile. Imagine the stupidity and the lack of self awareness to come to debate that debating is stupid.

I don't think he understands that. To be ho, I'm not trying to be mean, like I thought, you know something.

No, that was like this, this is a guy who's like maybe a hunter IQ, like not even.

And I've seen him pop up and have a couple of funny moments in certain you know, you know, uh, YouTube things and stuff, and it was like, oh, you had a funny moment or something.

But it was yeah, it was just goofy.

I just if you want, if you're saying the cultures headed in a bad direction, you're asking all these deeper philosophical questions, which is what Jay's getting at, and it's it's just goofy.

I just wanted to say, it's it's totally backwards.

You want people upstream in culture putting out good art that does glorify and magnify God and rebukes bullshit. And then you need people going at the direct foundation to go up you know upstream as well. Right, you need both. You want everything. You want a whole culture informed by the good.

Yeah. Here is Evilah by the way, talking about what he likes in Croley. So his answer to culture and society is a lunatic promoting that magical b U T T se x. And so you can go read his assessments of Croley. It's around page two, sixty four, sixty five, and I'm pretty sure he has a positive appropriation of uh butt sex.

Magic well and and again, what's what's funny about that is Crawley, you know, with the you know, the people and the poo poo thing, he thought, you know, Oh, it's the final transgression you know, someone can make, and a transgression of what the very religious ordering that debating these false religions as well as atheists and perennialists.

Allows for, like it's just or sorry, wouldn't allow for if they were in place.

But I'm gonna head out. I'm gonna go go listen, christ has Risen, have a good.

One, Jay, what's up?

Man? Sonic, what's up?

Hey? Bro? Didn't realize I was up.

Hey.

This all sounds very sophisticated, but I'm curious as far.

As these guys go, who just.

Kind of launch in to things that they're ill equipped for, even on a daylight today.

Truthfully, I'm not.

Much of a reader as far as this stuff goes.

I'm saved by grace, but I'm.

Just curious about how this plays into.

Guys who are willing to do nothing but to act.

As far as this all sounds very book smart, but where does it come in.

For people who are just tired and who are.

Ready to act on whatever their exhaustion is with where they're at.

I don't know what you mean act?

What do you mean?

So you guys are talking about like authors, right, You're talking about like different authors and like Christian Cannon from what I've gathered, right, you guys are talking about authors like like favor is kind of what.

It sounds like.

Evila is a pagan, so he has nothing to do with Christianity.

Okay, So.

Okay, so he referenced him.

Do you have any that you're a fan of?

Yeah? So look, man, it's a it's an open debate. So I mean, if you wanted to come to discuss and have debate, that's fine. But I mean, I don't. I just cannot understand.

What you're after the debate. I'm just looking to further understand.

I understand what.

You guys are are.

You're against Catholics, You're with Catholics.

I am not Okay, I see what you're saying. I am not pro Catholic. No, I am against Catholicism. I'm Orthodox, but we also debate Protestants, atheists, or whoever would like to come debate.

Okay, for the most part, Protestants have been against Catholics.

Next as part as what.

I'm perhaps I'm ill equipped to even be talking to you right now. But for the most part, the discourse I've seen is Protestants and Catholics against each other.

M what about it?

Them just arguing for more structure.

People online in suits Orthodox not Orthodox Liberal versions of these religions.

Whether to get in a suit to go to church or not a suit not a church man.

I don't know if anyone else can relate, but I just don't go to church.

I'm sure a lot of people can relate that they don't go to church.

Do you go to church?

Yeah?

You go to church?

How many times a week?

Usually one? Maybe two?

What Sunday and Wednesday?

Uh? Well, Orthodox church usually has other services. It's not really Wednesday, but generally Sunday, but some other days sometimes we have a Saturday service.

Okay, so generally on the weekends. What about the people that.

Don't partake in these quote unquote bodies of Christ at all?

Well, I mean it's not typically the Orthodox attitude to judge people individually, but I mean, we do believe that humans were made to engage in ordered worship towards God. Yeah, in a community.

Is that based somewhat off the scripture of where one or two were gathered?

Is well? I mean yeah, partly. And then you know Paul says, don't forsake the coming together. Yeah.

Well, would you say to people who are struggling to find.

That at all, Well, I would say, go check out an Orthodox church, Go visit one.

Orthodox what not Orthodox Protestant, not Orthodox.

East Eastern Orthodox Church, the Orthodox Catholic Church, specific.

The Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church. Correct, Okay?

And I I'm of course coming to you as a gentleman who has grown up in church almost my entire life, left it at probably the age.

Of separate seventeen and never went back. You don't feel like there's any like vetting.

Process you have to have with these churches.

You feel like anyone could enter these places and pretty.

Much be set. Now.

The Orthodox Church is the strictest for vetting.

Okay, which is my elaborating on that. As far as what their vetting processes.

Are, it's usually one to three years before you become a member of the Orthodox Church.

Schooling of.

No attending the services and going through what's called a catechumenate.

Yeah, and that is what the deacons.

The elders.

You mean making the decision. Yes, well, yeah, there's there's priests and deacons and then so basically a person first inquires and then they go through a process of being a catech human for anywhere from six months to three years, depending upon what priests and deacons determine correct.

And what sort of quality is that these people do they filter out?

Are there any.

Well? Usually in that time period, they're just looking to see if you really do want to be in the church and you are serious about learning it and keeping to it's you know, teachings.

So okay, what about it's the quality of the people that they're actually getting involved.

Is it mostly in these kind of liberal non denominational churches that they just do that and kind of make sure you're conformative enough, or do they have some sort of deeper framework to actually vet the men who are becoming involved.

Are you talking about just joining the church, people going into the ministry.

People actually becoming part of the ministry.

Oh no, it's very strict. I mean that doesn't mean that there can't be you know, still evil people, but it's it's more strict than anywhere else.

That's that's what I'm interested though.

How are how is this Ether Eastern.

Orthodox mythology.

Preventing the wolves among sheep?

Well, again, there's no perfect system, because there can always be people who maybe even begin good and then turn evil. So there is no perfect system, but it has the strictest canonical prescriptions on who can and cannot be a member of the priesthood.

Could you elaborate on that a little bit deeper.

I mean, there's just all kinds of things, for example, that can disqualify you from being a priest if you were you know, if you had a criminal background, if you were abusive to your spouse, or I mean, there's all kinds of things that can disqualify you. Okay, well, look, what I would suggest is, if you're interested in this topic, there's a great documentary that is a good introductory documentary. It's called The Icon. It's a seven part documentary. I

Hello? Can you hear me?

Yep?

Awesome.

So this is not exactly theologically oriented.

So I do apologize. That's okay.

I am in university and my brothers and so people at university and my brothers they're like dug in on like Andrew tap manosphere, and I'm just curious from you, what are the strongest arguments I can make to you know.

Because when someone comes up to with this nonsense, I.

Want to I don't want to just say oh, he's bad, because.

You know, I want to.

Actually have reasonable reasons to say this is false.

Well, I mean, the manosphere only goes so far in terms of like critique. Okay, so I critiques feminism, but what's the positive that it's providing after the critique? So basically it's just going to say what stack stack cheddar stack crypto and try to get laid like that's all

What's up? Man?

Not that you need to defense at all, but the guy earlier saying that you like, you don't have converts going to the church because you know.

You're lying or something.

I mean, I'm I came out.

I was born into onest Pentecostal, went into Calvinism, and then now I'm in an Antiochian church because of the type of arguments you give against Catholicism and Protestantism. So and there's actually another guy in the church that I went to with Pashka last night, and he came out of shamanism and a whole bunch of other stuff because of you as well.

So it's kind of the dude's.

Just like blatantly just trying to talk over you and just trying to spew out shit.

So it makes sense.

But yeah, I appreciate that. I mean, it's like many of you guys have been to our live events, and we don't have thousands of people at a live event. We get anywhere from one hundred to one hundred and twenty. But we've done many live events in the last several years. And if you tally that up together with what people like Father Whitford, or what Father Josiah or what Father Moses and all these people are saying, and yes, it's cumulative.

Jay?

So I have a question that I'd like to get your perspective on and see if you're able to reconcile. So in Matthew twenty four, verse thirty, it says that the coming of the Son of Man would occur, and that his audience would see.

The coming of the Son of Man.

In Verse thirty four states all those things will take place before the passing of that generation.

Let's called preterism. I've argued for it, done many videos on it. So that's seventy eight. He came in judgment, just like Ezekiel and Isaiah says that God coming in judgment on the clouds against Egypt or against God Israel's enemies is a coming, sure, and.

I don't have any problem with that.

My challenge, however, to you, is how do you, or even anyone else, for that matter, postulates a yet future.

Coming of the Lord?

If that coming to the Lord that Jesus mentioned in Matthew twenty four was fulfilled in eighty.

Seventy did you not call in recently about this very same subject matter? Do we not already have this conversation.

I don't know what recent is, because I haven't talked to you about this.

I tried to.

Ask, you don't know what recent is?

I mean, well, I mean because if you mean recent, maybe six months ago.

I tried to call in.

And we didn't have a lengthy conversation. He just booted me out, but with recent as like a last month, no, or two months?

Okay, Well, there was a guy who asked the exact same question maybe two weeks ago, so I thought maybe that was you. But yeah, I believe in a double fulfillment. Just like in the Maccabees, you have a double fulfillment for the profanation of the temple under the Maccabees that Jesus says the desolation is seventy eight? So is that two? Is that two things.

Of the Maccabean revolved.

The profi nation of the temple under the Maccabees, that's called the abomination? So is that too? Is that too? Okay? So it's possible for these to be mirrored.

Uh, you know, I believe that there's a possibility of dual fulfillment.

Okay, So there's a dual fulfillment of the removal of the tabernacle of the entire universe because the time was a symbol of the tabernacle of the universe according to Hebrews seven. That hasn't happened yet.

Now so now here, here's here's my contention, Because if we're gonna say that dual fulfillment is possible, right.

You just admitted it was no, no, and I agree.

I agree, But why not?

Why can someone not say tri fulfillment or quad fulfillment.

Because the eschatological removal of the universe a lah Hebrews and what the temple signified would would by definition be the eschatological final one. There wouldn't be a third one.

Okay.

So and this is where we have agreement, is that there's only two. Now here's my problem.

No, no, no, you're you just asserted that the thing that is not clear. You said there's only two, meaning that you think it's just seventy eight D. I just got you to admit that it's possible. Where was the removal of the universe and it's tabernacle?

Are you talking about it in eighty seventy?

That was the removal? That was the removal of the temple. Where was the removal of Where was the removal of what the temple symbolized.

So that that was them?

Where what does the temple symbolize Heaven and Earth? Where was the removal of heaven and earth?

But that's what you're not understanding.

Now I do understand. I know what full Preterism says, and I'm getting you to point out to understand that the removal of the temple is signifying, according to Hebrews, the removal of the literal physical cosmos, the heavens and the earth.

But that that's presupposing that it's referring to the literal heaven and earth.

My gosh.

So if the temple, if the temple is a symbol of the heavens and the earth, and the temples destroyed, that's a prophetic prediction of the destruction of the thing that it signifies.

Yeah, but it was removed under the Babylon. Oh my gosh.

Just what was removed?

The temple by neb was already destroyed.

The temple in Jesus's day, the one that he calls the the abomination of desolation, the one that Hebrews is referring to. Hebrews is not referring to Nebicaneseer's temple. Hebrews is not referring to Nebucaneser era temple. Why are you getting madgic and now you're changing the subject to make it personal. Is Hebrews referring to Nebucaneseer's simple Is Hebrews referring to nobicaneseer, simple, where is Hebrews referring to Nebucaneser's temple.

Is referring to the temple in eight?

Correct? And that signified what you already admitted, the heavens and the earth?

Right?

Yes, right? So when was the destruction of the heavens and the earth the thing the temple stands for?

All?

Right, exactly? This is why I booted you, because this is so stupid. Oh my gosh, there's the genius of full preterism, folks, the guys who believe that the Bali resurrection already happened. There you go. You see that the thing that it signifies was fulfilled when it was destroyed. Imagine being this stupid wid seth.

Hey, how's it going.

What's up?

Hi?

I'm a Protestant and I like to be pannon.

Okay, have time?

Yeah?

Yeah, So I read that book you recommended, The Formation of Cannon.

By by Lee.

Martin McDonald's and yeah, I was surprised about you know how liberal he was actually, and and yeah.

Okay, well F F. Bruce is a conservative and he says a lot of the same stuff, so does yours. Love of Pelican.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand that.

Have you well, have you read those books?

Yeah?

You read all those books.

Yes, I read Bruce's book. I read Martin McDonald's book. I read Krueger's.

Book on the canon and Pelican.

Not Pelicanya No, yeah, yeah.

Anyways, I just don't think that they put all the pieces together and so they give a good data.

Well all they all I'm getting right, But all I'm getting from them is that they admit this crucial role of tradition, and that pretty much ends Protestant them.

I don't think so necessarily.

Because yeah, good, so tell me why, yeah.

Yeah, sure.

Uh well, so solo scripture isn't against tradition.

It's just that I know what you think.

I know.

Yeah, well you asked me to tell you some somehow to tell you. But uh so, solo scriptura isn't against tradition. It's just saying, scriptures our highest authority. So tradition is an authority, it's just not a infallible authority.

Do the do the apostles consider their verbal preaching the word of God?

Yes?

Okay? Is that binding?

Yes? It's binding?

Yes, okay.

We don't have any oral teaching from them. It's not containing scripture. How do you know that, Uh, there's no evidence.

Well no, you're saying that, but I mean the Orthodox Church, the Roman Catholic Church, believes that there is evidence of that. So how do you prove that there is no evidence of that?

Yeah?

Because well it's more so lack of evidence. That's the reason why. Okay, well he doesn't understand why that the Roman Catholic Church in Eastern Orthoxy claim that they do have tradition outside of scripture.

But but just their belief doesn't prove that.

I didn't say that the belief and it did. I'm saying that we believe that there is that, and I want to know how you know that that doesn't exist.

Yeah, well I'm well, first of all, I'm saying it's possible it exists, but we just don't have any evidence of it.

How do you know that there's no evidence when I can give you the tradition of liturgical historians who talk about the Apostolic liturgies that are not found in the scriptures.

Yeah, those liturgies exist, but we can't prove that they go back to the Apostles in the exact same way with all the hotels.

Can we prove that Matthew wrote Matthew's Gospel.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we can have high confidence in that.

But no, no, how do you prove that.

Yeah, it's through the church fathers.

Uh, that's tradition. That's an Apostolic.

Tradition, and tradition does not contradiction.

You just said that there's not Apostolic traditions, and now you're admitting that there is one that Matthew wrote Matthew.

No, I'm saying there's no Apostolic tradition outside of the teaching of scripture.

What about the authorship of Matthew.

Yes, yes, the authorship of Matthew is outside of scripture, thank you.

Not infallible, but it's not an infallible teaching.

Well, you're you can assert that, but it refutes your previous claim that there's not Apostolic tradition outside of the Gospels. And I gave you the example of Matthew's authorship, which now you're saying it is, so you contradicted yourself.

No, I'm saying there is, you know, an Apostolic tradition outside of scripture.

You said that there's no evidence for that, there's no proof for that. You just contradicted yourself by saying that the authorship of Matthew is an Apostolic tradition. No, no, I said, yes you did.

Oh no, I said that there is tradition outside of Scripture.

Like Matthew's authorship.

Yes, but that's not an infallible tradition.

Now you've moved the goalpost because you're inserting the word infallible that was never part of it. Is it an Apostolic tradition outside of scripture? Is it an apostolture?

That?

Stop trying to change the subject when you just contradict yourself. Man, is it or not?

Is it or not?

No, don't hold on.

Is it or not?

It's a simple question. Either it's apisoltic tradition or it's not. I don't care about infallible. Yeah you said it, Okay, you could call that. Two minutes ago you said there's no evidence for extra normanta or extra biblical Apostolic tradition. So you just contradicted yourself.

Well, maybe I should have made myself more clear, or.

Maybe you just shouldn't have contradicted.

Well, no, I don't think I contradicted because I I didn't.

No, you didn't qualify it to where you can get out of the contradiction. You said that there are no apostolic traditions that we have any evidence for or proof for. You literally just contradicted yourself with the authorship of Matthew two minutes later.

Yeah, I didn't get a chance to qualify myself, and.

So maybe so because it's a country, you can't qualify yourself out of a contradiction.

No, I don't think it's a contradiction.

I know you don't think that, but everybody heard you contradict.

No, I don't think it's a contradiction.

How is it not a contradiction when it's literally the reverse of the previous statement? Because I think myself, how is qualifying it going to get you out of a proposition and its negation? The entire chat, the entire chat believes that you contradicted yourself. So how do you get out of it?

And I'll explain a few of me. Okay, So my argument is, yes, there is addition outside.

Yes, did you claim that there is no evidence? You said there's no evidence of that.

Yeah, I said there's no evidence of infallible.

Bind No, no, now you're changing infallible. The question was Apostolic tradition, Okay, whether you think it's infallible or whether you think it's infallible. I said, do you think that the Apostles believed that their oral traditions were the word of God? And you said yes. I said, are they binding? You said they would be, But we don't have any of that. There's

Hey, j how's it going, man, what's on your mind? Hey?

So, I'm glad I'm finally able to talk to you, buddy. So earlier you were talking about the history of Pentecostalism, and I actually have kind.

Of dug into this a little bit. Excuse me, And.

I really hope that there's some people who believe in the tongue speaking stuff that's still listening because their own writers admit that at first the tongue speaking stuff was legitimate languages. So you know, you were talking earlier about Charles parm Right, So he this dud's wild man. So first of all, he leaves Bible College because he thought that you know, edimication would separate him from the hoest spirit.

And there's actually a really good.

Book on this by a Pentecostal pastor who freely admits all this stuff. It's it's Larry Martin, and it's the Topeka the Topeka Outpouring, and he freely admits this stuff. And then the funny thing is is that he gets his Bible College closes and then after the fact, you know who comes calling is William J. Seymour and Parham actually ordains quote well, I mean quote unquote ordains William Seymour and then he goes off.

And then the Zusus Street Revival happens.

So this whole thing about you know, I'm a speaking an angel language, you know, it's all nonsense. They didn't even believe that. And the book that I mentioned actually has the Bethel Bible College, that's the name of the college. It has their stuff in it where they're specifically talking about evoking the Holy Spirit to learn a language, just as the Apostles did at Pentecost. It was never an

And I'm like, bro, these are your people right now.

I didn't know that. That's very helpful. I had no idea about any of that.

Yeah, it's wild, man, it's but uh yeah, it's Larry Martin the Topeka Outpouring of.

Nineteen oh one.

It's it's I mean, it's it's a it's a quick read, but I mean it's got firsthand witness accounts. It's got their own writings from Bethel Bible College, it's got Charles Parham's writings, and it like it's I mean, and they.

Freely admit all this stuff. So I just wanted to bring it up.

I know you talked about it earlier, man, and you know, I know it was a debate, but you know, I appreciate.

No, it's a you can you can call in and contribute information like that. I appreciate that, Henry. That was a really good point. I mean, I did not know a lot of that history of that of that group. Now again, when people call in and it's informal open chat and you contradict, I will boot you because I see that as a as a dishonest form of debate and engagement. And the guy literally said that there is

So?

I know you have like five thousand videos on TAG and I don't know if I watch all of them, but I watched. I watch pretty much every single one I can find. I just have a few questions about it.

It's not TAG Day, so it's specifically it's okay, specifically listed as the topics, and it's evangelicalism, charismaticism, Calvinism, Catholicism. It's not TAG Day. But maybe next time, Saint Strengths. What's up man?

Hello?

Yeah, well's up?

Jay?

I appreciate bringing me up here. My happy Eastern to you. And I recently discovered your channel and I really enjoy your content. And I had a question. Uh, I'm from Iran, I'm Persian and I was atheists, and I had I don't want to make it long my story my testimony, so I pretty much had a very spiritual encounter with Jesus I have visions of him, and I pretty much got driven into the Christianity, Christian lifestyle, and Jesus really did change my life.

But here's the thing I'm really interested in.

In the Eastern Orthodox Church, but in Iran you cannot convert to Christianity because.

There's a death penalty for it. There's literally a death penalty.

Like if I if I announce that I'm Christian, I would be dead. They would probably prison me, they'll probably rasse my family.

They would do all of that.

So I I.

Know in the Eastern Orthodox Church you have to be baptized to enter the Kingdom of heavens.

Well, no, I don't. I mean if you so, if you are not able to get to baptism, it's not your fault. We're not. I mean, there is baptism of desire and the church is always held to that. So no, you would not be liable for something that was not under your control. Now, if you're able to move and leave the country, maybe that's the way out of it, or you know, maybe even a secret baptism could be a range or something like that. But no, if if it's under no fault of your own, you're not it's

Actually, uh, let's see.

Saw Heil. Oh, here we go. I'm you.

Oh what's up, Jock?

Hey, So I know you probably heard like the cleave to antiquity guy. Yeah, he said, like he was posting on his YouTube page about like if canons can change, like but being reinterpreted by a priest or bishop based on the area.

That's the same guy. So it's the same guy that he'ps making the one follower. Okay, it's like it's like he so from now on, I'm just gonna check and if you have one follower, I'm not gonna go to you. So that's the new rule here flow zoos fifty dollars. She wanted it to be true without logic or facts that could penetrate what she was thinking. Thank you for trying to keep doing what you're doing. You're a warrior. It's scary how illogical that person was. Christ has risen.

What's up?

What's on your mind?

And real quick, you're you can take a couple of hot takes.

You're right, okay about what's I mean?

Are you? Are you familiar with Christian identity?

Okay?

Yeah, yeah, man, So so that's the faith I believe in.

I'm a firm believer in Christian identity.

Okay, you're laughing, So you're not serious. I don't know, like to shoot o, what's up? What yep?

Oh?

So me and my wife just got baptized yesterday and Holy.

Saturday many years, many years.

Thank you.

That Scott guy is definitely uh, just a phony.

It's just a weirdo.

And he's so run because our.

Church just broke the record for the amount of baptisms and transmations.

How many this is like twenty.

Okay, and where's this or you don't never mind, you don't have to say where.

Yeah, and then so this is happening across the whole nation.

I know, So I got I mean, I talk to people every day.

Like, yeah, this is global, Like this is not a game.

This is is just awesome.

But yeah, I just want to tell you that you've been.

A big part of our conversion.

And we're having a baby boy coming up pretty soon and we're naming him, uh after Basil m awesome.

That's a good name, man, many years to you. Man, appreciate that. That's good to hear. Nachene. Oh, we had a lot of farah wild people today. My patience has been tested. But I'm trying. What's up? Man?

Yeah?

What up?

Jay?

Can you hear me? All right? So you used to be Protestant? Right yeah?

And how did you go?

Like so you pray to Mary?

Right now?

We asked for Mary's intercession?

Yeah, yeah, how did you come?

Because how did you get to feeling okay about that? Because I'm looking I'm looking into Orthodoxy because I believe in the tradition like they have the historical Church.

From what I believe. Right.

Well there, I've got a video on it and that would probably be what I recommend because it took me. It did take me a little while to get used to it. It's called what is the Basis for the Veneration of Saint Mary? And this was a reply to Isabella de Luca who was posting stuff against you know, Marion whatnot. By the way, anybody with like one follower, you might you're wasting your time. I'm not going to go to you if you're coming up with uh one follower.

Christ is risen?

Truly he has risen?

Uh yeah, I just wanted to come in on what Scott was saying. I mean, there's tons of people who have been edified by the lectures that you give, so I mean, it's just flat out wrong.

I was one of them, so I appreciate.

That you were what one of them?

I was?

Yeah, I was one of them. Okay, cool, that's great.

I just if I if I may ask a question, can ask a question about.

Like politics? Is that all right?

You can't, it's not really the topic today, but so, you know, I just want people to know that, uh, you know, just on can't even find the They didn't put my name in it, which is kind of shitty. But if you look up Fresh and Fit is lom debate just on YouTube, it has a million views. Now to love your neighbors, So let's take into account what that guy said. No one cares, nobody listens to debates. Just on YouTube. This has over a million views and if you read the comments, you can see thirty seven

It's insane.

Well, and to that point, I mean, it can be Islam, it can be agnosticism. I mean I was agnostic, and I had a really bad interpretation of Christianity from you know, the hypocrisy of Protestantism in Roman Catholics. I had no idea Orthodox even existed. So it's like, if it wasn't for the discourse being had, right, I mean, I wouldn't have even known. And I'm sure a lot of other people feel that way.

As well.

The thing I guess that I had to ask related it relates to religion too.

It's about online being.

Kind of essential at this point in modernity for people to come to the church in a lot of respects, and maybe not the only way, but I think if you look.

At a lot of the young men.

Attending the Orthodox Church, now, I mean I'm a cadaculum on one of them as well, but I see a lot of other young men.

Yeah, I mean online, I've been people. You go look at my Instagram. I've been in pictures coast to coast, like multiple times with a lot of people. Not thousands of people, but I'm saying extrapolating out I can tell you that it is probably in the thousands at least, because look, let's just look right here, and this is just on the muzzle like fourteen thousand people like the comment the internet was the worst thing that could have happened to Islam, right, there.

A lot of engagement, So, I mean, it's definitely true. I mean I was having a conversation in Jimbob's discord about how, you know, a lot of people don't really realize that the online debates base a lot of this stuff getting sorted out is if it didn't exist and people weren't fighting on the front lines of the Internet. I mean, imagine how many people wouldn't have come to the church.

Yeah exactly, Yeah, Well thanks man, I appreciate that. Good comments, and again like, yes, I did. I understand that God's providence is a key thing here. Obviously, Divine grace is a key thing here. And it's not just me, it's many people now together and what we you know, the funny thing was that what we said we would do in the beginning of the discord was we wanted to train a bunch of guys that were able to to do the types of things that we do over here.

You're gonna put you on something crazy real quick. Most of these Zoomer Jimbros are consuming macro guzzling synthetic dies and synthetic sweeteners on the daily. They don't even know it. Goofy af. There's nothing great about that. Do not listen any further unless you are an Alpha or Sigma male. This is important and there could be consequences.

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