Pt 2 Protestantism & Ruslan REFUTED! OPEN CALLS (Any Related Political or Religious Topic)!

On one and you blew me off. You are a gryptor, that's what I said, So would have been very easy to set up a five minute conversation, which, as you can see, he says, why don't you call me and apologize? Well, you don't have time. I thought you were so busy that no one can call you and talk to you for five minutes because you're just too damn busy, got too much going on, son, So he blew me off,

Care while I was trying to figure out an actual debate. And I need him to do it with the same chest bumping that he did. I need him to do it with the same energy in his apology because this is happening.

What do I have to apologize for. I tried to reach out to you and you blew me off. You need to apologize because you're.

Lying before were Jay, And it's honestly old, and it's annoint now. Having said that, I don't.

I'm sorry that you find people pushing back against you insufferable. Nobody did anything to create this mess but you.

I would love to have a debate on one of your guys's dogmas. Get let's let's figure out a time and let's find a reasonable point. Despite popular opinion, guys don't. I've actually never even had a formal debate, so I don't even know what Jay is trying to prove.

Yeah, this is a great point here in the super chats, d says for five or acieving maximus ys for five dollars. Rousselan didn't have time for a five minute conversation, but he has time to record a twenty six minute recorded and edited video, and he has time to sit there

But I was willing to have it and now I'm not because I.

Think, oh, here we go. Now he's not. So he's doing the moral blackmail that Lofton did because he's a freaking pussy as I said, he was pusslne and I told you wouldn't do it, and I said, hold him accountable, and his excuse says, I'm gonna have moral blackmail against you until you apologize to me for what for crashing out? For crashing out? How you blew me off? I mean, you blow people off and expect them to just bow to you because of your a hunter k channel do

The entire thing is evidence of someone that is behaving very spectrumy, like the dude has no emotional intelligence in terms of anything that's going on, any emotional intelligence.

Okay, Rusla, I mean I'm over here having fun. I don't know what you're talking about. Like, how would I write for Sam Hyde if I'm on the spectrum and I don't understand emotional intelligence and interact with people. I mean, hardcore autistic people can't do jokes. They don't have a sense of humor, they don't understand multiple layers of reference and meaning and sense. So again it is silly.

Keeps having meltdowns and crying and then saying, but I can hold my own door.

I look like I'm crying. I look like I'm having a meltdown. I having a blast. I don't know what you're talking about, and I don't know.

What the chorm is. But you don't know what being charitable and graceful and kind.

Oh we full loft and now we went full loft, dog be charitable? You are not being charitable? Is it charitable to blow people off when they're very open and kind in chat saying let's set a time and have a conversation. You guys saw the messages, Maybe, he says, I guess you don't keep up with me, But I got a lot going on. I do YouTube. Perhaps you know I do a YouTube channel, and I have a ministry, and I preach four times a week at church. So perhaps,

You are low cal Reuseline line is especially with one of the only people that was trying to give you a lifeline.

Oh yeah, I so need Russeline. No one else will give me a Lifeloine. Yeah. I just went on twenty different shows on a podcast tour, got multiple giant podcasts. I host a massive show every Friday with you know, multiple millions of listeners. I just need a lifeline. Somebody helped me in media. Nobody will help me media.

Please.

I need your jule, Yeah, I need I need you so bad, Rustling. That's why I'm saying I don't care. Dude, would I be making this video laughing at your ass if I cared.

Minds to get you two events and trying to get you to have these conversations behind the scenes. He doesn't know.

I don't think you're doing that.

I don't believe that.

I think maybe you asked Wes Huff or Gavin Ortland or somebody to have a debate, and that's about it. So I don't think you're up to me to try and oh your doing all this work for me. You're trying so hard. Who believes that bullshit?

And so anyway, I find the entire thing goofy uh and.

And exactly, which is why I'm laughing, just lame.

And And there seems to be these two camps of the Orthodox online. There's the Orthor Bros, which again I just find completely insufferable. A lot of these folks came out of, at least the leaders came out of presuppositional, calvinistic we're so certain about everything.

And now, but do you got access?

My brothers?

Who wants access? I'm selling access right now, four thousand dollars in person. I will personally counsel you, Blessed God Ministries.

What's up, dude, I'm.

You dog ge what you think? Man, I'm over here crying having a meltdown son.

Very clearly having the biggest meltdown effort.

What's on your mind?

So I was doing some.

Research on Mormon and I found something really interesting. Have you ever seen or read about what the Mormons opinion on Mohammed is?

No?

So if you go on there, if you go on their website, you can read you can read about their views on Mohammed.

One of their elders named Elder George A. Smith, and he was quoted saying that.

Muhammad was a He was very sympathetic towards Mohammad, and he said that Mohammed was raised up by God to teach against idolatry and.

Polytheism.

Interesting. What's the guy's name again? Elder who?

Elder?

George A Smith. They also go on to say later there's also presidents that go on to say that they had.

A portion of God's light.

In them in him, and that he was one of the greatest prophets to well, not prophet, they don't use the word prophet towards hibody.

He was one of the people raised up by God to enlighten the whole nations and to bring higher levels of understanding to individuals.

In eighteen sixty eighteen fifty five, LDS apostle expressed a positive view of Muhammad, saying he was raised up by God on purpose he preached against idolatry. The divine purpose in the LDS article argues that Mohammad was descended from Abraham and raised up by God to fight Mohammad was a moral teacher, expressing those similar to Jesus. Yeah, wow,

Well, Joseph Smith, during the Mormon rebellion, he made he called himself this generation's Mohammed and that he will lead his people wow during the rebellion.

Okay. And then this is an LDS website here, and this is a pro Mormon website here saying that what prophets and apostles said about Mohammed, and it says latter Day saying appreciation of Mohammed can also be found in nineteen seventy eight President's statement regarding God's love, Mohammad was one of the greatest religious leaders of the world and had a portion of God's lights. So there it is, right there, Yeah, exactly. So that's again oneer percent proof

That was just it's a very interesting.

Thank you. That's a great find. That's really good. That's a gem right there. But I wish I could enjoy it, but I can't because I'm crashing out. So unfortunately, I'm super crashing out right now, and I'm just so unable to control my emotions and I can't handle life in reality, so I apologize that I can't because I'm such a sperg. My autism is getting me right now. I wish I could enjoy the truth that you just shared with us. Michael,

I was wondering about, like, when people are in communion with heretical doctrines or or in food communion with demons, is there a physical effect that happens to them?

There could be.

You know, Paul in First Corinthians, when he talks about communing at the table of devils and communing at the table of God, seems to speak of definitely in the case of communing at God's table unworthily of a negative effect. And it seems logical to me that there could potentially be in some cases right physical effects communing at the

Because I was thinking of like the Uncanny Valley effect, like that.

Weird fear we have when we.

See something that looks human, walks human, but everything about it looks human, but there's just some tweak off that makes us.

Terrified of it.

So I was wondering, like, if someone is in full communion with the demonic or a heretical doctrine that can bite something into them, that it starts physically changing them, and we grow to fear that one person because of that one little detail.

Interesting tale in there with Uncanny Valley. It's a great question. I'm not sure. I haven't thought about that, but I think there's probably a kernel of truth there for sure, Sir Pontos. What's up, dude? By the way, it's open for him. I don't know where else Rousselom's going to go. It seems to be sort of rambling, but maybe he'll get to some other point here. What's up, man, how's it going, sir? Actually, I'm sorry, I'm also weeping and

Okay, So I don't know how related this is to the topic, but I just I want to know how you view view these CI guys, these guys who think they're.

The real Jews.

Who oh c I Oh, they're an absolute crazy fed run cult. I mean if you look at Eloheim City, I mean that's what entrapped or and got you know, McVeigh and all those people doing their thing. That was a CI group. And a lot of the c I groups, not necessarily all of them, but a lot of the CI groups believe in what's called the serpent seed heresy, which is the idea that Eve adds sex with the serpent and that spawned the Jews or some race of people.

What's up?

By the way, the topics are open. You guys are calling about it. It doesn't have to be about Rouslom or Protestant stuff. You call in about whatever you want. That's just the theme tonight.

What's up?

Man?

Where's the free debate? I can't find it anywhere.

I don't think DJ posted it yet. I can look, I can look and see.

I was looking for it like for the last forty eight hours.

Uh, he didn't. He didn't tell me when they planned. Who posted?

Did you do?

Good?

Well?

I mean, what do you think I want to say?

Well? Yeah, was it to Christian Freemason?

Yes, Chase Geyser, who is info War's former info Wars host, and then the other guy who was who works with the Bannon's guy, Joe Allen, so they both he's Church of Christ. And then Chase Guysers like non denominational but was raised I think Catholic or something. So yes. Their whole argument was basically, I'll tell you what you guys. I want you guys to watch it because it was the thing about that to me that surprised me was

Like it was.

So it was so heated, and I mean, everybody was nice afterwards, but like the debate itself was, it was intense, it was aggressive. It was one of the most aggressive debates I've been in, actually, so run down to the debate, basically, the whole debate ended up being going into this, it's sort of we started with why a Christian can't right, which I gave a five minute opening statement, and I think they both gave five minute opening statements about why

Yeah, dude, I'm really looking forward to it.

I don't know if this is kind of unrelated, but you brought up Church of Christ and I was watching a debate with Alex and some Church of Christ guy, and I thought, Alex, did I see him in here?

So I thought he did a really good job.

But I want to ask you, j so, can you explain to me like reception theory for when ecumenical council's infallible, like how it has to be received by the Orthodox Church.

Well, I don't think reception theory is like the only thing. I think that in the Orthodox mindset, there would be several things that would indicate as sort of public identifiable indicators of an ecumenical council or once the oucumene goes away, what we would call a pan Orthodox syna.

So if you watch Ubi Petris's video, he does.

A video on what makes an ecumenical council ecumenical, and he focuses on the canonical interpretation within the canons of the councils themselves, how they identify the councils in terms of authority and validity, and what that means for reception theory. So beyond that, though, if you're asking the question at the individual existential level, we would agree that the final

Is received as Orthodox or not.

So for example, in the case the Council of Florence, there were bishops and patriarchs present who we believe failed to keep the Orthodox doctrine, and eventually throughout the Orthodox world, Florence was not accepted, it was rejected. So likewise, say Nicia Nicia happened, and eventually, after a century too, the entire Orthodox world accepts the Council Nicea, the Palamite Synods, they're a Byzantine series of synods that occur, and eventually

But we believe an ecumenical council is a valves in these samples that you just gave, Like I'm not.

Trying to No, you don't that's not true, that's not true.

We believe it's a priority ecumenical or it's.

That's not true. That doesn't tell that doesn't tell you. Well, if that was the case, then latter in six forty nine would be ecumenical and constantin Nople one would have been ecumenical, but it wasn't accepted by Rome until centuries later.

Because it was out of communion with Leo.

So then it's not at its closing ecumenical by your own argument, because your own church accepted it two centuries later.

Ecumenical it has to be the bishops of the world teaching communion with the Roman pontive.

Well that's your position, but uh, then why isn't latter in six forty nine acumenical?

Well hold on, I just like, are you so.

You're just gonna blow past not gonna answer that. Oh you're gonna blow pass that and not answer that.

Well, you just blew past my point about Constantinople.

You just said you believe that.

You didn't address No, no, no, I'm saying that you believe that when it's closed, it's ecumenical. That example refutes that line of argument because Rome didn't accept it as ecumenical until centuries later.

Do you think the church fathers that I see a thought that it had to be accepted centuries later?

Or do you thought there?

Did you not understand? Again, you're not even hearing the arguments. The argument is that on your position, constantin Noble one refutes you.

No, it doesn't. I still have it heard your justification.

For that, When did Rome accept Constantinople one?

Uh?

When I don't know, it's centuries later, so you don't even know. So again, you didn't understand the argument. The argument was that Constantinelman, it's centuries later.

That's not true.

It is true.

Your own theologians admit that. What are you talking about? You just admitted that. You just said you just no, you're not you're not just asking. You said a minute ago that it happened out of commune with Leo. It wasn't out It wasn't out of commune with Leo. By the way, Leo wasn't the pope during constant At number one. It was out of communion with Rome. Though Okay, well, I was just like, okay, when was concept do you know when const number one was? Okay, you don't even

Say that guy, I mean.

The Kannadi document explicitly says that reception is the test for whether a council is ecumenical. And you have two cardinals and multiple bishops and like all of his top scholars signing off on that. It's just another example of how Roman Catholic apologetics are just totally detached from reality.

What these guys are hearing online is totally.

Detached from Roman reality.

There's an experts and clergy say.

Yeah, Roman reality is one thing online apologists is another thing. Two different worlds. Yeah.

On Russelm though, I think like all the ad homs show exactly where his priorities are, and the fact that he thinks like what you want is some sort of material gain or some sort of business exchange, it shows what he values exactly, right, So the fact that he's going to use those insults against you, it shows where all of his priorities are, and it just confirms that really he is a grifter at the end of the.

Day, unfortunately, And you know, if we say these things to hurt, it is so that there might be healing. And so ultimately, yeah, whether I'm mean or not, the bigger deal is are you grifting or not?

They're Orthodox, and then I have like the normies on the ground that are some of the most kindest, gentlest people, and they sometimes say, well, I'm going to be you know, Protestant in secret, and I'll I'll still pray with you guys, and I'll still do events with you guys, and all these sorts of things. And I often can't get a

So because a cd ach human was being pressed on a topic that means we don't know what we believe.

This is so bad faith, Like go ahead, yeah.

And if I could just add briefly that he was going around in the comments of this very video saying that the stream that I did was bad faith.

Before I did that.

Stream, everybody in the comments of Ruslan's video, they were all saying that who is this guy? We don't know who Joshua and Doe is. Why are you getting this guy? Nobody knows who he is. He's totally a stranger. When I got him on my stream, every single comment, like ninety to ninety five percent of the comments on that video where like, Alex, thank you so much for having him on.

He seems like a really cool guy.

Like it's a kind of a shame that he was put in this position. But I guess he really didn't do anything wrong. It was just a poor decision for Bruce Lan's part. And he's gonna go around and say that like the stream was bad faith, Like that stream was a favor for him and it really helped his friend at least to become more familiar in the community.

It's just such a crazy double standard.

And also, what do you mean Rouslan doesn't know what we believe? I mean, has Rousselan ever even read one Orthodox writing? Has he read any dogmatic theology?

Of course not, so what is he talking about I.

Don't know what you got, kid figure out? Would you guys believe? Well, maybe take a break from those stupid, dumb rap songs and read a book or two.

Rouselan, we're heretics.

Remember, we're heretics. We're not in the arts.

Books to numerous unnamed moderators about unspecified prompts. Talk to them at unknown times. All of these unknown people, these abstractions.

Yes, and they cannot.

And also the Orthodox that he talks to, by the way, I mean, Rouselan could easily reach out to me and ask me a question about some theological topic.

He's never done that. He did have me on the show, that's true, and we had a.

Discussion about several Orthodox things, and we had several you know, topics relating to justification and that kind of stuff, but we did not He's never reached out since then to discuss any theology issues, which he could very easily do. He has other very well educated Orthodox friends that he could easily reach out to if he has some kind of questions, so or he could actually just read a book. I don't know why he can't just do that.

The church, the One Tree Church, is the ark. We're not in and he was getting pressed on that. But then I talked to other folks and they're they're super kind and super gentle, and so I just think there's so much sleight of hand with these conversations.

That's a bad faith line of argument, though, because anybody in any group, you could find within any group people who misrepresent or don't know the positions of the group. Right.

That's like saying, well, I.

Talked to a lot of Roman Catholics, and Roman Tholicism isn't true because there's a bunch of different Roman Catholics.

That's a bad line of argument.

If you're discussing the topic of the lack of clarity and Catholic dogma, Sure you could make that argument, you can point that out, but it doesn't disprove the system because a bunch of the members of the group are unclear.

Uh.

And I would argue actually that you can be selective in your bias too, in terms of who you ask. Right, if I asked a bunch of new converts about what the Roman Catholic doctrines and dogmas are, they're probably not gonna know. So likewise, to press, you know, somebody on a difficult theological issue, that is a catechuman. It's not a good fair measure of what Orthodox theology teaches, and he should know that so that he keeps acting like I just I can't get any clear answers, and we

I mean you can start there.

This entire crash out just seems like a huge projection, all the things that he's in secure about exactly to push on everybody else.

There's so much chess thumping in these conversations, and I would love to have these covers. But what I'm not going to do is sit here and need to defend every single Protestant doctrine under the sun. I want you guys to substantially here.

Uh who has I even asked you to do that? Though? Like I mean, when we had the debate on your channel, I went in there not knowing anything about what he wanted to talk about, and he immediately went into the subject of justification. Ruslan did not tell me ahead of time, I'm going to have a two hour long discussion with you about justification. He didn't tell me, And I don't care.

Claims is the one true Church and your dogmas that, in my opinion, contradict scripture in the first hundred years church just we someone them to have that company.

Yeah, well, we don't care that you think that. So we want to argue what the ecclesiology of the church, that there is no one true church in the first century and because of quote the clear reading of Scripture. Okay, I mean, if you wanted to make ecclesiology in the early Church, we could do that. And the only reason I think he's saying that is because he's cribbing from Gavin Ortland's line of argument. Rousselain doesn't have any of

That's his go to big Daddy.

So the only thing he's gonna even conceivably debate will be the acumenist idea of accretion of the of the church. Being everybody I don't know, professing Jesus or something, and then some idea of accretions. So the debate will be a proxy debate with Gavin Ortland psation.

Jay is going to need to grow up. Jay's gonna need to understand how to talk to grown men the what not?

You? Uh, you don't blow me off and flex your channel on my face and then tell me that I'm not a grown man. I mean, I've been out here debating all of the biggest people bigger than you, including atheist gaytheists you know, on channels and outlets bigger than you. And now I don't you telling me the man up and talk. I mean men talk smack and say stuff like this. Men don't say A learned the love LANGUAGEFC fighters.

I know this is blood sports to him. This is not an MMA match. You're not gonna You're not gonna call me gay and and bate me into a debate. No, you need to be a man, apologize, repent, show fruit of repentance.

And apologize for what. And No, you're not gonna morally hold me by some blackmail that I have to repent to you. You already agreed to a public debate.

And maybe someday we'll have a conversation. But until then, let me know who do you guys want me to debate. I'm so willing to have the conversation.

Oh but he said four times he would debate me, but now he's added a moral blackmail criteria. I won't debate you unless you publicly that you apologize. Do you say publicly? I don't ever said publicly or not? I thought you didn't have time for phone calls.

Station in person, formal structure on one of your dogmas that you claim is unchanging that you can and by your dogs of a specific interession of the Saints icons. I'm gonna have that conversation.

Due he's so triggered, he's so like worried, he's so he's taking this so seriously. He wants me to publicly repent, republicanly repent to my or okay right now. In fact, you should probably pay me money. You actually owe me money because you because the will you talk to me? Yeah, I should probably charge you for them.

You must confess your sins to a priest in order to have your sins themself. I'm gonna have that conversation. Those those conversations.

I yeah, I mean there's quite a few New Testament passages that you seem to be not not aware of, Ruslan, So let's I hope we do have those conversations. But it sounds like now you've walked it back and you won't have it until I bow to some sort of arbitrary lists of what I have to do to publicly repent to you that he did say publicly. So at first it was I need to call him and repent. Now I need to publicly grovel and repent. Well, I don't think I've done you wrong. You started all this mess,

Of eight hundred K.

I don't care, and you see, these people don't know how to handle people that don't care. Alex, do you want to say something?

Yeah, I've still been going back and forth in to these like comments with Rouslawn, and he even admitted at one point he was like, this guy's like trying to bribe me. Is like, I was trying to give you a shot, man, But it's sad that he didn't acknowledge certain things like.

This, Yeah, he thinks he can. He can. He thinks he can pay you with attention through the channel. He's blackmailing you through the channel and access, which is what every retard crypto scammer does. So basically Rouslawn is a religious crypto scammer.

It's it's the same model of like the Tate bros.

And their university, and you got to pay all this money to get access, and dude, I don't care about your access.

That's what it's pay to play.

And it's it's funny because he was complaining about me, like speculating that there may be perhaps running something like a little racket over there, that there's only like certain people that are permitted. Like he just admitted he was trying to give me a shot, and he's trying to blackmail me with access, Like he's admitting exactly what I suspected, which is that they have a small group of acceptable people that are going to behave in a certain way

That they have.

Yeah, it's a funny comment here too. I don't believe in confessing the priest, but Rouselan demands that we publicly repent for him. So it's like, no, dude, you're in super delusion in here. See.

And I have some degree of standards. I don't. I don't do things virtually. Why because despite popular pini you guess think, oh he's afraid. I'm actually known to crash out on people as well. And so I've said boundaries on my own, like to say it, I'm not I am not going to do virtual conversations. I'm going to be in the rom because it's something different in the room. I need to have a moderator, we have a structure to the conversation.

When I was going to that's fine, I don't care whether it's some person or virtual or because I have no uh, I've never cared about this. People always make some big deal about this. I don't care whether it's virtual or in person.

Either way, Gish gallup. And I'm not gonna be lectured about logical fallacies and epistemological certainty.

Okay, oh, you're not going to be lectured about logical fallacies. And you want a debate, Reaslin, you wanted to rules of debate. These are the rules of debate, you idiot, Like you've been clamoring for a debate with Nick Fuentas and Candas for a year and you want to be a debater, but you don't care about logical fallacies.

You just showed you're an idiot.

I have a moderator, We have a structure to the conversation. When I was going to be gist gallop and I'm not gonna be lectured about logical fallacies.

And if you make logical fallacies, you will get lectured. And if you recall the two hour justification debate that we had on this podcast, that's what he's referring to is because I called out his fallacy. So he's basically saying I don't care. I'm gonna make fallacies, You're not gonna call me out on it. This means the shows you're an idiot.

Man logical certainty. Okay, I'm not interested. I want to have a real conversation and.

You're not interested in epistemic certainty.

You want to have a real conversation.

What you talked about the perspecuity of the text. So Rusalan, I'm gonna need to know what the method is for knowing what the clear texts are according to you as a Protestant, how do you demonstrate that? And what's the public criteria that we can go to to know that?

And once you guys to substantiate that you're the one true unchanging church and your dogmas don't ever change.

Okay, So now he wants to too quoke way and throw the burden of proof back on us because Protestantism is indefensible. So you guys defend your position.

Yet we see I'd argue a good amount of changing from scripture and into the first hundred years of tteriacy. That's the conversation I want to have.

So, okay, Ruslan, I don't believe that you actually know anything about the Batristic or post episode period. I don't think you know anything about it, So tell you demonstrate that you have read the Apostolic Fathers, the post Apostolic Fathers, or anybody in the first and second century. I'm not gonna take that claim very seriously at all, So you're

If you guys have somebody that you would like to see me have that conversation with.

Oh now it's it's not now, it's not Jay Dyer. So notice I told you guys he would back out of it, and he's invented a moral excuse when he has said right here, I will debate Jay Dyer. I already said I would debate him right here. You've seen it twice. He said it four times at the beginning of this video too, So now he's walked it.

Back comments I would really like to see that, and maybe we could figure out a moderator, and maybe we can figure out some time to do this. Not on your time, not roost on, drop everything you have going on.

Yeah, nobody said you had to drop everything. Nobody gave you some time limit. There was literally no times were even hinted at. Literally no times hinted at. So this is all made up.

We understand you got a book. We understand you got sumit. We understand you're doing a tour. We understand you also preaching to church, your local church. We understand you have a family with little kids. Do drop all of it and do it right now. I don't. I don't owe anyone.

Nobody said that this is made up bullshit.

He's just lying a conversation. No one's entitled to come onto my channel.

But nobody said we are nobody expected to go on your channel. That's why I said, don't do it on your channel.

I want to represent you guys, acurately, and I feel like I've done up until this point, I've done a fairly good job. Even with having Josh there, I feel like I've had.

A really Jalen, what's up? You're raising your hand on you yo?

Yeah?

So Jay, we'll talk your mind.

Yes, So I had a couple of questions.

So I heard that in order for a ecumenical counselor to be ecumenical, the pope past to ratified.

So what do you think about that? So?

I mean, who says that? Did? I heard it?

I heard it from a Roman Catholic friend.

Okay, well, I heard from a Roman Catholic friend that you can touch butts and put peep in the pooper? So what.

Do you What do you think about that claim?

Though? What do you think about it? Okay? Well, did the fathers that Constant double one think that when they were out of communion with Rome? Answer? The answer is no, right. So again that's why I brought up constantin double one to the previous guy, Myron Chuck. What's up man? How you doing? Jason? Myron Chuck? We lost it? You fell out? Uh?

Nikolai? What's dog?

K forty one? We'll go to you too after Nikola, what's up?

I just got done reviewing the same kind of stuff that you were.

You know, I was actually pretty pleased.

With how Josh handled his set himself overall in the discussion. But one thing I noticed, and this is exactly the criticism that we were all bringing up originally to Russalom which made him crash out, is Josh is clearly not an experienced rhetorician. He's not an experienced debater, and Gavin and Trent just magged to the whole de bait the whole discussion, Like I think he spoke a grand total

It's like, well, why are you, why are you like.

Interrupting his you know his his you know his answer. You're sucking up all the oxygen well, and Ruslin did a horrible job too moderating by not even letting it's like, hey, you guys got a chance to answer that question, Josh, do you have any thoughts?

Right?

He didn't even do that, So it's just a bad like panel discussion overall.

Yeah, I don't believe Ruslan's good intention anymore. In fact, I think this, the the interactions have actually forced Russan to kind of spill the beans about. I think he's got bad I think he's a sort of a weasly

Well, and also he deflexed to like, oh, my employment and me and Alex talked about this on my stream not too long ago, like maybe an hour or two ago, and he says, well, my employees changed the name to a debate and it's.

Not my fault.

Well, you're you're the boss, Like anybody who runs a business knows that ultimately the blame lines on your repeat.

So he's trying to have it both ways exactly.

He can be, he can be the person that's innocent in all of this. I'm just trying to be like a good faith like middleman between all these different actors and then at the same time say, well, it's not actually it's actually all these guys's faults.

Like it.

He's trying to have it both ways.

It's ridiculous. I think that that's ultimately what I get from this video. And yeah, who believes now that oh, it was just the fault of his staff. And then oh, by the way, I mean if nobody had pushed back. Who thinks he would have actually changed the title.

Nobody A good intention job to represent you guys accurately, and that's often met with initially love bombing and then secondly just complete meltdowns and whining, which to me, and I'm saying Eastern Orthodox, he is a cult. But this pocket of orthopros is very culty. It's very culty. You guys all have this. The creators in this orpit all kind of have the same aesthetic as Jay. You guys all have the same eighties night writer type vibes.

Heers like, it's all very okay.

By that line of argumentation, all of the gay, ugly evangelical lack of lack of aesthetics means that you're all in the same aesthetic less cult. So it's like that falls back on you too. Dog K forty one, what's.

Up, yo, Jay? I just had a just a quick question.

How familiar are you with John Zerka? Uh, that crazy internet dude Zurka?

Yeah, yeah, I know of him.

I don't know anything about him.

Yeah, So basically what he's been pushing out to like his.

Audiences, doesn't he like push like he? I mean he goes to my trad cat the Gnostic, the Masonic, it's like all over the Yeah, it's very strange.

I don't know if you're familiar with like Rosicrucianism.

And yeah, Rudolf Steiner is he pushing that now?

No, that's that's what John Zerka is pushing out. Yeah, and he's called you out a couple.

Of times saying that you're like a low level incarnation in that Rudolph Steiner is like a superior Christian.

You.

Okay, that's fine. I mean if people want to go with some kind of like crazy gnostic, weirdo cult, dude, that's that's that's up to them. Jason, what's up, Myron, Chuck, Jason, you want to speak?

I think I'm thinking I'm lagging here. I'm thinking of a few steps behind.

Uh yeah, I don't know what's been said already. Uh, just jumping in kind of halfway through the conversation and halfway through the whole thing. I'm I'm at, I'm i'm at. I don't understand how Joshua was allowed to speak on that stage.

I am like, and this is this isn't a dig on him. But yeah, there's unfortunately I think this is maybe a good lesson for people to understand some media literacy, how these people are not your friends, like there is there is a concerted effort to take down or make our embarrassed orthodoxy.

Absolutely, and yeah that's how.

That was my takeaway from kind of speed watching the Ruseland thing, because I was holding my tongue until I actually saw the whole presentation. And uh yeah, again this is not against josh he was doing he was doing, he was doing what he thought was best. But yeah, no, no, there's no way a Catecuban should be allowed on that stage. Like, I don't know who gave that blessing, I don't know what the conversation was.

I don't want.

To cast any dispersions, but under no circumstances should that have happened. And I will not believe for a second that Ruslan and we were on that stage didn't know exactly.

What they were doing.

Yeah, I no longer believe Ruselans and motives were good, but go ahead, out.

I did have Joshua on my stream and I watched that one too. Sorry out here, Yeah, yeah, you gave some facts over there where this started off. It was supposed to be like a testimonial type of thing where you.

Know, they were just talking about how.

They landed on whatever tradition they landed on, which is relatively harmless. It was only a few days before they had agreed to a month before the conference, right the panel discussion and the attendees, and it was only a few days before the actual conference that they had changed the topic of the panel to justification. So there it seems like there was a little bit of like boiling the frog going on there.

Well, I think it's also you know, we say there's a lot of things that that are said, even in catechorism that we don't understand maybe until until at some point, right, like at some point you're gonna understand it, and if you're not involved in the media space, you really don't

I was like, oh, no problem, right, and so I took four months off.

Uh.

It was it was good that I did, because you the danger always is assuming authority, not just over what you know, because it's not just about what you know, it's authority within with like presenting yourself as authority for the church. And that's something that you just have to grow into and it's going to take the time it takes, and you may never have that authority and that's fine, Like a public authority kind of figure, that's fine. That's why like, uh, you know, Jay Dyer is Jay Dyer.

I don't want to blame uh priests.

Or or anyone like on that level.

I don't know, right because I don't know what the conversation is being had, but uh, I think there has to be a great deal more responsibility on the individual, whether a category and inquirer or certainly a baptize or faithful to to know your role a little bit and know that, hey, you don't speak for the church like you know, there's there's there are.

People who who are granted that authority and that's great, but you're not them. And you know, cool your.

Jets a bit because yeah, that's the nights are out and there's and there's tons of people who because I guarantee you right, if you don't cross all the dots and you know dots, dont all the eyes and cross all the t's and something like Trent Horn can catch you out on something.

That's the thing he's gonna call.

He's gonna call Orthodox the people that we're and every single Orthodox to better for the next fifteen years is gonna have to deal to deal with that that statement.

You know what I'm saying, Like, that's that's what's at risk.

Appreciate those comments, Jason. Let's listen a little more rouslan here and see what we can get.

The end of it be culty to me, and that sucks again because my underground experience, what.

Sy Yeah, if you're into Miami vice and palm trees and if you have an eighties aesthetic.

It's obviously it's a culty, right.

Wethodox Folks is very different. And so I'm not saying I have some moral high ground. I'm saying because I know my flesh is weak, and if I end up in a situation where I get angry, I don't want to put myself in that type of situations. I don't want to misrepresent Jesus. I don't want to stumble into the flesh. I know my own weakness, and I know that has to be parameters and boundaries stars these conversations.

Yeah, the vile thing I said was your pretentious grifter did so. Yeah, and then what was the cussing was you're a douchebag.

When it was efficient to benefit from my platform. He asked to come on my platform twice, mind you.

Okay, Now, I asked to do a debate, and you said that I could come on your platform and we could have a discussion. So I said, yeah, I'd be happy to do that. So he acts like I was begging to come on his platform. Do I care about coming on his platform?

No, I don't ask me to call into his live stream several times, mind you, and im posing as this like I'm just a comedian. Meanwhile this you know, all he does is sit in debate theology.

Which it's not true.

We do live events.

We did a five week long podcast tour I just wrote. I spent two years writing a book on Hollywood, Esoteric Hollywood three, which you can get signed copies in the shop as you guys know, that is out. Last year, we did I don't know ten live events related to the book and to geopolitics. We hosted multiple stand up comedians at our live events. I spent the last year writing with Ryan Rivera, Pat Dixon, and Brendan Wilds for the Sam Hide Show. So he acts like all I

Which is cool, right, which is cool. But there's so many people lined up, women and ready to debate Jay Dyer.

Who are these people?

He's talking about, some rando, weird, schismatic guy with two thousand followers. I don't I'm not going to debate that guy. Who are the people lined up? Why can't you just name them.

That he doesn't want to? Okay, again, true Orthodox, they've been asking for debate. Seems like you keep ducking them. Why is that there's all sorts of people that are willing to debate, and yet it seems like he only wants to.

Well, I also have other reasons for why I wouldn't necessarily accept a debate with that kind of a group

The seams seems I'm not saying. The seems is certain, Okay, stop with all or notther thing. But it seems like you only wants to make people with much bigger platforms to than.

You mean, like you did with Candae and Nick Quentes. So of course people want to debate people bigger platforms. Duh. I mean, why do you think I went on Piers Morgan to debate the aatheists? Why would I go on Jesse Lee Peterson? What like?

Of course, what are you talking about?

And I think that's lame. I think if you're really about it, we're really.

About you think that's lame, Well, then you should be willing to do the debate about the theology because you care about people believing in a works based salvation. That's not the true gospel, right, I mean, if you really believe that you're dedicated to the gospel, you think it's the Protestant justification by faith, the lone solofi day line of argumentation. You got to you gotta be out here, you know, refuting the Orthobro's dog.

The seeking of truth. You should be willing to debate anybody at any time, because that's the expectation of me, isn't it.

No, that's not true. The seeking of truth does not. It's a non sequitor to say that, because I seek the truth, I must be willing to debate anyone at any time. Now who out here comes the closest of anybody except for now perhaps Alex and others who do the same model.

Not that I care of having people call in.

Who else out here in this sphere allows everyone to call in and to debate, and does blood sports and does public formal debates. Oh me, no one else does this. Tim Gordon willing to do a blood sport debate and willing to do a formal debate. Tim Gordon doesn't do call in public, Goober debates I do, so no one else is willing to do everything that I do except for some other people. Now, so that itself refutes everything Rouselan's saying, what's.

What the double standards? So having said that or the docks listeners, I appreciate you. I think you're wrong, and I'm not gonna back down from that. But I appreciate you, and I.

Don't appreciate them because you just said a giant portion of them are in a cult. So again contradiction. Go ahead, Alex.

I think it's rich that he keeps on like the I think you're gonna push the push a little more on this, but he keeps on equivocating between literally an anonymous call in show that's like for edutainment purposes versus a professional on stage production is blessed God summit conference that he's gonna post for like everyone to see on what plan those two things come from.

Yeah, most of the people who call in here are not named, right, how is that equivalent to what he's offering? Yell with a giant public venue here.

Appreciate the pushman, and we're gonna make it right. Me and Gavin Nortland will have a conversation. Let me know who you guys want to have a conversation with.

Secondly, so you already said you would do it with me, uh and your backing out reason is that I must publicly It's not notice he chiefs changing the claims that originally it was call him and have a conversation where I apologize to him on the phone, and then at the end of this video it changed to you must publicly repent for the things. Well, is it, like, what's the criteria going to be by the end of the video?

Is it going to change by the end of the video?

Or Brooks? You guys are insufferable. I've seen this.

You want to say something else?

It just sounds to me like russ Law needs to forgive his mother.

Honestly, Rudla, have you moi, Jill Moba the gates of hell? Have you full give?

You?

Just angry angry at your move? What the Ambergride? I forgot that he said, which was actually really funny. When I was watching some of the clips and he said at the very beginning, he goes, well, what made you call orthor dot and not just a normal Christian? What would you be authored? Dog?

And not?

Does normal.

Happened before? We've seen it happen with a you know, a new atheist. Then we saw it happened with the reformed and restless group of everyone being a thousand point Calvinists, And then we saw it happen with the online manosphere, red pill community. This is came and gone before and.

What's coming and going? Oh, Ortho bros. Are a fad that's going to come and go, but not his made up business church that will stay. That's here for the long haul, y'all.

You should just change your last name to tape, change just to Tate.

And yeah, well the author bros.

Are a fad dude, and it's it's just an aesthetic and it's coming and going. But Rusland's strip mall business Church is here for the long it's apostolic dog. Didn't you know in the fourth century, Saint Athanasius he actually went to a blessed God business strip mall church.

If you didn't know atheists, then we saw it happened with the reformed and restless group of everyone being a thousand point Calvinists, And then we saw it happen with the online manosphere red pill community. This has came and gone before. And I promise you, if Jay Dyer is your cult leader, I promise you, if this is your pope, if this is your king, this is not gonna end well for you.

Guys.

Is this script literally just copying and pasted from Lofton's twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen twenty twenty videos. I feel like he just like spit it put into an AI like what's the best way.

To go after the Ortho Bros?

And the AI was like, well, you could just copy paste the Lofton model, except that it didn't work, Like the Lofton model didn't work, and nobody cared. It didn't put an end to my channel, and did it? I remember back at that time, specifically Yobaras said, you know, Jay's channel's going down. It's not going to keep growing.

Nobody believes that this is going to end in doom. And my question to you is where would you draw the line with how J. Dyer acts outside of debate that where is the line?

So here we go, it's going to end in doom. He's implying that the Ortho Bros Are going to be led through my aggressive debate style to what we're going to do fed actions.

Is he trying to say.

We're going to false flag of it? Like what's he talking about? Like we're going to start to take it out, like we're going to have a political revolution. I mean, this is actually getting into the domain of like, okay, you're actually losing it. Is like this is schizo's tears stuff. Like somebody was saying, and maybe that's why he's saying this.

I posted that.

So that's the people who are our opposition. I've yet to see an Ortho bro do anything like that. Of course, you'll probably get fed sok accounts and phony is making those kinds of accounts now doing it. But somebody was saying that these people in Ruslan's circles are scared, that that they they're scared for their life right the probably I'm thinking, where would they even get this?

And I'm thinking, like, imagine.

Thinking that you're like, you're not going to do it at date with dire because or.

The bros By assassinate you or something not. It's just so crazy, it's so preposterous.

Go ahead, well, Kay, don't.

You know, it's not a threat to their lives. It's a threat to their livelihood.

That's okay, I mean, but no.

One thing that I noticed about this whole Ruslan thing is that in the entire the entire thing is he completely ignores the Schitzos from their.

Own camps exactly. That's what I'm saying. Yeah.

And the other thing is that I've been in these circles for a while now. I mean i've been there's been eight years now that I've been in Orthodox circles, and I've never seen this like alleged proof of like these Schitzel replies where Bruslan is like implying that they're going after my wife, They're going after this Yeah right,

Yeah right, which could be anybody.

Right, I'm sick tired of it.

And the last thing that I'll say on that is the oracle bros.

By far, they have to be the.

Most committed people to the act ever, like, oh, this is just a fad. If it's a fad, that's a really hard commitment for a fad like Orthodoxy. He's not easy going to church standing for two hours, your back is sore, you know, being a catechuman for sometimes a year, two three years. In my case it was three years. Like, if it's a fad, then man, it's a it must be a really really good bad Like these people are so unseerious.

Yeah, the the Ortho Bro phase from say twenty sixteen to twenty eighteen, many of those guys are now married with kids, they're becoming deacons, they're becoming clergy. You know, everybody knows of who's the guy that used to do Orthodoxy first. You know, he's probably already a priest by now. Luke ken Drats already appre So, I mean we're like ten years into this and this is just totally contrary to what are he's saying here.

You guys want me to be a Trent Horn apologist or Gavin apologies. Like those guys don't want to sit down with Jay for their own reasons, some of the same reasons I'm dealing with now. If you don't understand why you may need to see if you're on the spectrum.

Okay, Okay, so everybody who's an ortho bros Spurg. But here's the thing. At the live event when we had the debate with the the Masons, I would say we had about maybe anywhere from eighty tow one hundred people at the event.

And I would say, out of.

The majority of the attendees, probably seventy to eighty of the people were there on our side as opposed to a handful of Freemasons supporting the Masonic side. And I would say, of all of those guys that got in the line to get books, pictures, et cetera, to you know, to talk to me, I would say, most of those dudes looked like based chad dudes. They were there with wives, girlfriends. Not everybody, but I would say several were, you know, when we did the I spoke at the Ludwell conference.

I mean, it was almost.

All bays Chat dudes, a lot of wives, a lot of girlfriends there as well. So this is not accurate in terms of the now. Maybe in the online spheres there's a sector of spurgey, you know, Latiniser or something

Alex, go ahead.

I just wanted to talk to Nicolay's second point there where he said like this disavowing of like the bad ortho bros. And like I sent out that tweet today is like I talked to Russlan a little bit one of his live stream chats.

It like kind of guilted me into it.

So I was like, guys, if you are meming about his u and children, please stop doing it. And you know I gave him that concession, and freaking two seconds later, you give him a few minutes and this guy is already talking ship in his comments, like calling me bad faith and trying to disparage my reputation.

So Nikola, you're spot on with that.

You give him a lake, your pinky, it'll take your whole arm.

Jason, Uh, I just want to say that I think our our ortho autists are actually a strength, you know, any.

Of yeah, a good point. Yeah, point out.

Without our hlos autists, I think we just lead in and and accept that like, it's not it's not it's certainly not.

A bad thing.

That I think we attract a certain a certain caliber.

Of of of of dumban.

Who wants to give themselves diligently the faith in all aspects. And that's sometimes intellectual or otherwise right.

But like, yeah, no, we we we we.

We certainly have some of the best and most diligent minds in the religious sphere, like and I mean the the uh the the bar is not set high, unfortunately, but but I think we certainly have them.

Uh Grock, what's up?

I don't know, Jay, I I just popped on over here probably a little over an hour ago when.

The Ruslan section started.

And I was listening to it.

Man, you might want to do that public repentance or Ruslan might track.

You down in public and throw his bloody tampon at.

You and then nag you to death.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't know who this is resonating with, but I mean, I don't know. I'm kind of feeling I feel a little sorry for us, and honestly, I'm starting to feel like I'm being a little too, I don't know.

Into the and us what's up?

I do and I don't right, Like I feel sorry for him at one level, but at the same time, it's like, you know, you brought I brought a lot of this on yourself, dude into the furnace, I mute, Hey, what's up, buddy.

You know something that I've been finding really interesting is I'm noticing.

That a lot of these like Protestant guys, Gavin or Ruslan or whatever, you know, what it.

Feels like to me.

It feels like they're really comfortable, They're on the top. And I think what's really ending about that is I feel like that's gonna be their their own downfall, their refusal to do debates, the refusal to engage.

Uh.

And then you have Orthodoxy, which is like steadily rising, steadily, like just coming up right on their heels, and uh.

Again, I think this is gonna be the this is.

Gonna be the catalyst that's gonna drive a lot of people away from Protestantism because in reality, like the Suazoeys progressed through rigorous to be rigorous examination of things, right, But these Protestant guys, they don't want to.

Do, they don't want why, And how different I have to say, this is so different from the apologetics world of the late nineties in the early two thousands when I first got into this world. I mean, the big dog was doctor Greg Bonson. I don't care who you were, if you're a Roman Catholic, if you were whatever else, atheists. I mean, people were terrified at debating Greg Bonson.

He was he was the big dog.

And Bonnson would just destroy opponents, right, I wish, even though obviously he was he was a Calvinist, but uh, you know, he was so good. He was probably one of the best debators of the last century, if not the bestibator of the last century. And Bonson, you know, died too soon. So we only have a handful of classic Bonson debates, maybe six or seven total. I think I've seen them all, maybe one. I haven't gotten a

I believe it's contradicted itself. So I think he.

Kind of admits that, Like he's kind of in the emails, he's kind of coming around to the point of like, Okay, yeah, there might be a church and state kind of topic that we could debate, So across your fingers because we're negotiating that and it might it might come about.

So Jason, I think your thoughts on this, because when you were saying, you know, the changing of the bait tactic strategies and.

Quality coming from a from my you know.

Previous new athe he's kind of framework. I think Chris Hitchins was actually the jump. It was sort of like the the moment where things changed, because he kind of straddled both lines.

I'd like to hear from you, like your opinion all that. I mean, he was, he presented, he.

Presented, he presented something well as an academic right or as an academic thinger.

But all his debates saw was pally vibes.

Yeah, I mean him and his brother are interesting characters. I remember watching. We've watched a few of those debates. But there's actually a forgotten debate with Doug Wilson and Hitchens, which is pretty interesting. People have forgotten that they did a tag debate many, many years ago. I want to say it was like maybe even the late two thousands,

But yeah, I forget about those guys too.

They did play a big role in that phase of I just was never in the New Atheists world, so I didn't really pay much attention to the sort of you know, two thousand era debates with the New atheists, although there were many, and of course they were putting out books. But you know, the internet wasn't you weren't doing a lot of like YouTube debates, yeah, back then. But you know William Layne Craig, you know, he played

Shadows what's up?

Hright.

So going back to wrestling or however you fayling kind of moral hypocrisy, he's kind of made himself into the pope, and I thought Protestants this avowed the pope. He's kind of just said, oh, you need to bow to me and meet my terms. And he can't even take accountability for what he's done and has to blame it on other people exactly how much like what Trent did too well.

I think these guys understand the currency of attention and channel numbers, and then when people don't care about that and are not worried about it, they don't know what to do. So he doesn't really know what cards to play other than this moral high ground trump card. So but uh, yeah, I think you got some some good points there with like, yeah, a great, Heath, what's up when I'm you? Heath? You know what I'm Hey, Jake, I'm sorry, I thought you were. You came on right

Come back in?

Ben? Yeah, can you hear me?

Uh huh.

So I was at the Nashville the Mason debate, and I was shocked at the quality of their answer when it came to how do you know what the Bible is? If you're solely scriptor the only thing that matters is the Bible, how do you not have a good answer to how do you know you have.

The right Bible?

That just it's been blowing my mind ever since I started thinking about that.

Yeah, I'm glad that did briefly come up. And I thought one of the guys who came to the to the microphone at the end to do the questions, he had a great question for Chase Guyser. He said, because Chase Geyser was asked it earlier in the debate, like well, why should we accept your Protestant Masonic you know, list of the cannon or whatever, and uh, I forget what he said, but it was something like because that's what

Is that cool?

And uh, I think they didn't really get the line of argument with that. That was okay, yeah, to give.

Jack all the money and all the.

Women, it's and then you just say, well, but Jesus led me to believe that, So what.

The gospel Jack says?

Jesus said, yeah, exactly, Yeah, great comment's Ben. I appreciate you coming to the debate. What did you think about the debate overall? Beyond that point?

I thought that it was hilarious that you got them to admit that they're totally fine with Satanists coming in as long as.

They lie a little bit. Yeah. I mean it was so all over the place, right. It was like at one point like, oh, it's not religious, we don't have any theological criteria, and then within a minute they're like listing ten theological things that would exclude you. It was just so like it was like two hours of that basically back and forth. Timothy, what's up? I will give the Mason's credit for one rhetorical point. I mean, I think it was a blowout. I would say ninety five percent.

Pledging your allegiance.

So thus it would be a form of an oath, So I do think within Like initially, I was like, that is an interesting rhetorical report retort. However, and Chase, you guys are really jumped on this. He thought this was like a total gotcha, and he was like, really really running with that one. But the difference is that the pledge of allegiance is not a religious initiation, right, So in the pledge of allegiance, I can conceivably still belie believe that you know, one nation under God refers

And I'm like, so you do have theological criteria.

Well yeah, but no, but it's just supreme being. But it can't be supreme being that it's you. Well why, well, because blah blah blah blah blah, And they list all these theological criteria. I'm like, oh, so you do have a bunch of theological dogmas that exclude people theologically. No, it's not a theology. Well, but it is all right, So again the dogma is that you have to have a generic supreme being. Saying the pledge of allegiance is not in any way committing me to a religious dogma.

Jason, I mean, just briefly, I think that I've said this repeatedly is that ideologies failed the level of I think this is where orthodoxy and it really overtakes everything, is that you can't I'd like to hear your thoughts on this as well, is that when you failed the state of being right, it's not just worldview, but a state of being, you can't be your ideology like, there's there's a level of which even the most diehard Communist

There's there's now I brought that, yeah, myology. But my opening statement was I asked the audience and then I know you're not really supposed to ask questions in an opening statement, but I thought rhetorically this would be a good line. I said, do you guys believe that it makes sense to be a Christian and a Gnostic? Do you think it makes sense to be a Christian and

Yeah, well, well it's also just because I think when people hear everyone talks about theosis, and that's you know, that's the big orthodox word, but is one I think I slipped slipped on because it's often reduced to worldview, but it's actually a state of being, Like to be Orthodox in all ways, right, to be Christian in all

It tries to do it falls apart.

I think that's that's always the why these systems, Well, we need to work, we need to work against them. We can also sit back and one fall apart, because ultimately they're gonna they're going to reach into is where they cannot produce answers. They will always be insufficient or human for human beings on some on not just a spiritual level, but on a living level, like you said, praxis.

Uh, tim Timothy, Yes, sir, I was just the other day.

I don't remember which channel it was on. Ruslan had come on. He was kind of crashing out, and uh, through our parasocial relationship, I get defensive of you guys, said. I listened to it, and he's kind of bad. It seemed like very bailed but obvious insults.

And this is a while, not a long time ago, but long enough ago that I was like, kind of made.

Uncomfortable by the whole thing.

I was like, well, Jason Ways nice about Ruslan, even though.

Oh Juway has been nice for resauce.

I don't really see the issue, but this has it's been a long time coming.

Obviously, I think you've figured.

That part out.

I will say, he said you behaved well during debates, just not outside of him.

So it does mean you are allowed to.

Call him a goblin, a demon, and a boom regard and that's actually okay.

Well, it's interesting that. I mean, how many insults did he throw at us throughout this video? Right, So it's a standard that he doesn't actually apply because if he really thought that, he would not call us spurgs cult members, you know, all the different in souls.

Degenerate gay stuff.

Kept on calling us gay gay degenerate, Like all the stuff that he said is just horrendous and unconscionable. All the stuff you just said, dude, look at so again, if you're going to do all this, don't try to moral high ground and have your you know, a moral high horse when you're doing all the stuff that you just said, you know is supposedly about the worst stuff. He guy, what's up man on you?

I I wanted to just mention how he like totally hand waved the stuff with Israel.

Yeah, I think that would you know, I didn't know his position, he's I forgot that it maybe six months ago. I asked him if you wanted to do a Christian Zionism Israel debate because I wasn't actually sure of his position, so I forgot and I just sort of I don't even know what his position, but I sort of assumed, well, if he's wanting to debate Nick and Candace, my assumption was that he was like Christian Zionist or maybe leaned

I mean, he.

Invited me to his podcasts and we had a debate. I mean the two hours at the end is me and him debating justification, so we already kind of had a debate. So I don't understand why he would even see it as a problem for me to ask him to do another debate. Right, It's like we already kind of had a debate. So what's the problem.

I think it's optics, because like if he says, oh, I don't support Zionism, or if I do, it's going to like just really.

Mess him up because look of what is happening in politics right now with.

The Trump stuff right now, people are reacting, well.

I don't know, was he a big Trump guy or not?

Really?

I don't even know what his leanings are.

Oh, I don't know.

I'm just saying like he won't be I'm saying he's like sneaky because he won't talk about.

It in the I see, yeah, exactly. He didn't want to say he was pro Christian Zionists, at least when I asked him. I was like, well, I assume that you were because you wanted to debate, you know, Candice and Nick or whatever. My assumption was that it was over that. But H Brosey, what's It's three am where I'm at. But we might try to wind it up here pretty soon. I got a lot of super chats, so if you disagree, raise your hand, you go to the head of one. What's up, Hbrosy, hey.

Apologize or for jumping out last week? I am about being yeah about Trump there.

It was just I don't care.

It was just a spur of the moment thing, you know what. It wasn't obviously it wasn't like I said, It's not like I'm gonna stop following Andrew. I love Andrew obviously done a tremendous job, you know, with him and his leftist I want.

And so forth.

But after what I've seen from his latest period.

Interview, this is yeah, this is.

Just one thing that I'm just gonna have to pretty much ignore everything he said though, like this regarding Trump.

But yeah, I mean, I'll be honest, I haven't kept up with Andrews.

I did want to cover the trigonometry discussion because a lot of people are saying that Andrew gave a really good explanation of paradigms that should resonate with people outside of the philosophy theology sphere, so I am interested in covering that. I also want to cover there was something else I saw that he had done, and I wanted to go back to their Joe Rogan appearances too, So I do have some catching up to do there.

But I've not seen what you're talking about. I can't believe that, Doug, just.

Like obviously if you don't want to, it's nothing special with him, Martin Lamont Hill and some or some check out own though it is nothing special or whatever. But I mean the twenty or thirty minutes that Marjorie Taylor Green got before Andrew and everybody else was an added onto the panel.

That was actually pretty good because.

It laid the groundwork that made Andrew and Jack it with Andrew and Jack pisodn Urson, those two leftists.

It laid the.

Groundwork that actually made Andrew and Jack look so bad because during that twenty to thirty minutes it was established and points it out like repeatedly that she holds the positions that she helped Trump or her tougher or whoever else were campaigning for him back in twenty twenty four and twenty twenty three, and he's the one that's changed. And Andrew didn't have I tweeted this earlier. Andrew did not have the worst moment. But throughout that entire exchange, Jack Pasoviic.

And you can see him realized what he was saying in real time.

So pierres asked, and sorry, my son wake yes. So Pierre's asked, mamm have to get off here in tech, I might have to shut up. So Piers asked him that question just like exactly what I just said. So, uh, that's from his perspective. Is it Trump that's moved off of the position by what you know, why would he be so upset that Marjorie Taylor Green maintaining the positions

Like he just threw that out there.

It was the dumbest ship that I've ever heard somebody bring up, like out of nowhere.

It had nothing to do with what was being discussed. Argument.

Yeah, like he I hadn't. I have no idea, like why he even said that.

It was.

It was the weirdest thing episode, but he did well. He like he didn't explicitly say it, but him him admitting that it is Marjorie that's maintained the same position and not Trump. That's a concession right there, Like you're admitting that he has moved off of his campaign promises.

So and.

I'm like, again, I'm not bashing, I'm all right, So I'm just gonna leave the whole Andrew thing on like I said, just voting forward, this is just one thing that I'm gonna.

I'm kind of like, you know, be and Andrews.

Just aren't gonna see how of eye on it, and that's fine, that's fine, But there was one more thing that I had, dude. So the only reason I'm up is because I was up for three hours trying to get into this. This really big sports bros of he was running a space or whatever, and I know he's designed, it's like he's a hard course iiist, and I was waiting three hours to get in. I kept spanning people's dms, like everybody that came up before me, and he finally

So as soon as I said, israel Is kicked me immediately.

Kicking that kind of pissed me off, man, and I just I didn't I didn't even think you still be.

Up here, So I just decided to call it in real quick appreciate it. Yeah, this was a I wasn't expecting rouse line to crash out, but we had a late night rouselan crash out. So who disagrees, raise your hand. You go to the headline. We're gonna try to wind it up here and I'll read the super chats. Anybody disagree in the line up here, we got six people. Anybody raise your hand. If you disagree, you go to the headline. Anybody emojis disagrees. Nobody disagrees. You're setting up