Pt 2 FREMASONS vs JAY DYER DEBATE REVIEW

Nobody has perfect truth or absolute truth. So maybe it's out there, but it doesn't exist and we don't have it. Fine cast it however you want. That's still satanic and principle. So I mean even the fact that Albert Pike in that sentence is saying that absolute truth is unattainable, is implicitly stating that Freemasonry makes no claims to have absolute truth. Okay,

Simply does not concern itself with that. If if we were, hey, religion in making these claims. I think you'd have a better case. Okay, there's plenty of plenty of groups within society, the Boy Scouts, for example, there's a bad example.

The context the contest of the context of Albert Pike.

There's there's tons of groups that have certain base level requirements but then leave subjects that are not the purview or the the these.

Alcoholic This is where they try to shift into it being a civic organization like Boy Scouts, and that's not what it is. LIKEX Anonymous is an example, it's done this a little bit. Well, let's see Alcoholics Anonymous as an example. You have to believe in a higher power in order to go ait A. Twelve sevens are based on massonic principles. AA is Yeah, so you think that Alcoholics Anonymous inherently denies christ or is incompatible it was that's a strong man. I'm not trying to do this.

Alcohol, it's like therapy, right.

So I'm not sure by the even though AA has some elements of Masonry as part of it, I'm not sure that it's equivalent to the Masonic initiation and brotherhood.

That's why I keep having distressed.

I don't think that's agreed. Yeah, it's kind of comparing apple storages. It's we're talking about.

It, you know, a secret society with levels of oats initiation that.

And religious initiation. That's where this ends up going.

And inherently deceptive oats and initiation that compound on each other and compile on each other with alts of initiation that also contradict Christian dogs exactly, Alcoholics anonymous, just like, oh, you've got to believe in a higher power, and then you know, we sit around me, do a group there if.

You think or whatever, it's it's very, very different from them.

Well, and that's the same point I make with saying the pledge of allegiance later. So yeah, context of God, this whole chapter is about theology, not philosophy. Theology. So he's saying that in terms of theology, perfect truth, truth is not attainable anywhere. Do you believe that perfect truth is not attainable anywhere? Well, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. But I don't believe that in our current state we're able to

I don't know.

There's what you know, there's what you don't know, and there's what you don't know that you don't know. I don't claim just because I'm a Christian to have attained absolute truth. I believe that I've attained absolute truth in the sense that I know who got it.

So say that again the way the truth of the life. But I don't think you can actually know that or have any Yeah, that's what that's all.

I think it's actually dogmatic. It's dogmatic to.

Me that you can't have certainty that Christ is exactly.

Yeah, that's where this argument keeps going, Right, It's like you don't understand that it's a contradiction to say that, Oh, for me personally, Jesus is the absolute way the truth in life. But nobody has absolute way the truth in the life. It is silly, is And I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God Christ.

Too, that's the argument, right.

Christianity's claims are antithetical to the syncretous subjectivist, relativist claims of Masonry.

That's the whole point here.

So in the sense that would you call I mean, would you call that absolute truth? Because when I hear the word absolute truth, I mean all true I think of all truth. So there's nothing in the word absolute truths or objective truth that necessitates omniscience. And so I think that already asked you with the irony here is that it's the Mason. Yes, I you want to play the word game. Why, I'm not trying to mess with you. I believe in absolute truth. I am an objectivist, I

Mark.

Now he's contradicted again because Albert Pike says that that's unattainable. Rightly. So the whole point of this was to say that the teachings of Satanism are that you are your own God, which is what Satan says in the Garden to how of a need you determine reality? You determine what's true and what's false. And the original presentation that you guys gave as to why masonry is so awesome is because it doesn't have apostles, it doesn't authorities, it doesn't have dogmas.

So you can go back to that with these ideas of the landmarks, each lodge, each grand lodge is the supreme authority in that jurisdiction. It will recognize or unrecognize.

Hey, you're right, FDA.

This is the exact same and trust in this exact same debate with every Protestant about normative authority. Yeah, my local pastor has a normative authority, but nobody tells me and can buy my conscience and just tells me what what.

It's just like little tree.

Masonry is just a decentralized groups.

It's a decentralized.

Grouping of the visual pulps who get to decide what the dogmas are.

Freemason we are, but also that's not dogmatic.

That's also not dogmatic, but it is.

But that's also dogmatic. It's all over the place. Is a horrible this is really sad. I don't think they've really it doesn't seem like they've watched like any of your previous.

I don't think they've thought about this. No, they haven't thought about this at a debate level. Chase, what's up man?

Hey, it was kind of funny listening to this last last section of the debate, how much it reminds me of obviously like the Protestants, like like that girl Tristan was saying, but also it reminds me of the Ecumenists.

It reminds me of the Ecumenists that attack anyone.

Who says, you know, Orthodoxy is the truth, you know, like goofy, goofy, effeminine people like Ethan Wayne.

And stuff like that. They have the same exact line of thinking.

Well, Ethan Wayne is a Freemason. He shares Masonic stuff all the time. Oh he does, Yeah, he shares, so he shares, he shares Masonic stuff.

Yeah, it's just it's just funny.

It's not a very deep analysis, but it's the same exact mentality as the Ecumenists trying to subvert Orthodoxy from within. Whether they're a Freemason or not, it's still the same mentality.

And then when you ask them. I don't know if later in the debate do you get into like, hey, how do you know that.

These other people are predicating the one the same god as you do?

They do they ever give? No?

We do?

We do?

We do.

Come back to this point of me trying to illustrate that they actually have all of these criteria that exclude people, which means that they've moved the goalpost and it's not just a higher power.

So yes, it does come back to.

That another brand lodge. So there are authorities and there are things that will give you unrecognized were So you know, well, I'm sorry that you don't like me going back to it when you're referring to the same fallacious argument from before, I'm gonna go back. Yeah.

I don't see how anything I've SAIDs in Kong that there is a Mason authorities, there is a structure that governs a governance structure of the fraternity. That is completely different than saying that one man Albert Pike or I didn't make that organize an author I didn't make the argument liary when that was that they aren't authorities. And then you try to put words in my mouth and say that I saw it. I didn't learn to straw man. I didn't much worse say that there are no authorities.

Okay, there not so like not one man. It is a government structure of freemay doawnery. So you're appredicating and changing. You're moving the goalpost from the opening statement saying authorities, and you're saying that, oh, I just know one dude as an in the opening statement, he said there is no one man who speaks for masonry. But he also said there's no apostles and authorities. So in no context, okay, fine, so there are there is an authority that is a body correct.

On behalf of freemasonry. She says that no man speaks on behalf of free basonry.

Yeah, exactly, no one speaks on freemasonry. And I speak for freemasonry. From Albert Pike speaking for freemasonry.

Of freemasonry, I can with the full confidence say.

That exactly that's the whole de bit rare.

There's a government structure for other horror.

Yeah what get it gets crazy.

We haven't even gotten heated yet. Uh, we are approaching the first half. We're not even got we haven't even gotten heated yet. Authorities, and you do have authorities that you submit to and you can be removed.

I mean, it hasn't gotten past that one all yet.

It takes the first hour to get past this point from the lodge, right, yeah, okay, So why did you cast it as if it's a free thinking of sort of organization with no dogmas. I didn't cast it at that.

I started my opening statement by saying that you were going to be bring quotes from individuals and try which you did do. When you pointed out that the name was Molesen dogma, you attempted to make the argument that this is massa.

No, I didn't. No, you missed the argument. You're still fundamentally misunderstand and I and then when I corrected you that this that the words of alur Pike are not Masonic dogma, we went in this circular argument. It wasn't an all regular argument. It was a contradiction logically to say that there are dogmas, that there's there's a dogma, that there's no dogmas there, I wouldn't make it, AUGI that was the name of dogma, that there's no dogmas.

So now he's mood.

Now he's admitted dogmas plural. Notice member Chase said at the beginning there's no dogmas. Then it's okay, there's one dogma. Now he said dogmas plural that you have to believe in God in order to be a freemason. A dogma. Then by that definition, there is a dogma. Did you not just then qualify that I can be a Satanist and be a Mason. So there's now other qualifications that would exclude me. So there's more to the dogmas. That's why you guys are being dishonest. Well, isn't. Now is

How's that?

Yeah, here's dogmas, thank you. So they claimed, but the idea that there's not dogmas is not true. I thank you.

That wasn't the point that was made. The point was that the words of Albert pikern On Masonic dogma. Yeah, that's a straw man, dude. I didn't argue that his words are dogma. I said that it's funny that he titled his book Morals and Dogma, And I said, the contradiction is the argument that the dogma is there's no dogma.

How is it how is it compatible to claim that there are dogmas, which I'm not even disputing, but then simultaneously claimed that the organization advocates for subjectivism and relativism. I mean, if there's absolute dogmas, then it's inherently not subjectivist or relativist exactly. That's the point, Chase. It's a contradiction. I'm arguing, you guys contradict yourself. That's what you do

Yeah, are my dogma when it comes to my religion is Christianity.

It's not Freemadi. Now we get prot slap. This just turns into total slough here, I forgot this part. Okay, So what Christianity me? Firstly, you're showing them.

Also that like your justification for Protestantism is the same as justification for authority within freemasonry, which also affirms moral relativism. Now do to use myself of my own conscience. I read my Bible, and I figure out to code my Bible and put on the Bible the colder hat, and I and I.

Just and I do it.

You put I talk to God.

I read the word of God. The Word of God flows through me.

It's like you pull out your you pull out.

Is that where it goes for the next hour? Now?

No, no, no, DJ's about to end this part pretty soon. Uh No, you pull out your Joseph Smith peepstone, and then you read the Bible text through the peep stone.

And that's how you interpret it.

You read the Bible text through the peep stone, but also you're a Freemason, so you're also you're reading uh your peepee stone and your Yoni stone.

You're correct, your.

You'r Shiva Lingham and your and your Shivay.

Loosely Protestant. I'd rather not like that's my congregation here, would you?

Okay? Here's w's my family? Too much? Historic? Your protest Historically? Are there bodies of people that can determine what's normative to be a Christian and not not be a Christian? What do you mean by can? There certainly are that

Oh?

Loosely with that? Yeah. By the way, do do you accept the canon of Scripture? Now? The Canon of Scripture?

Yeah?

Yes, sixty six book. Probably I don't know. I don't know that it's relevant. I don't know that it's relevant, so it's not relevant. Probably I don't. I mean, I'm a Christian, but probably I don't know.

Doors open that you could, Yeah, that's funny.

There's a lot of different ways this could have gone from here. Curious where they go with it.

Who decides what books Bible? I'm asking you is the art? Because the fundamental question of the debate is whether or not freemasonry is compatible with Christianity. I want to know why it's not which branch of christian I want to know what you think Christianity is that's relevant. Well, I think Christianity is believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God. That's why. Is it not a fair question to ask if you believe in church history that anybody

Well, equating freemasonry with a religion as such as Christianity is absurd. That's the point that we're trying to make, and it a lot of lend. My christian beliefs aren't important, But we're not here to debate.

What you says is christian was if you said in your opening savement you said Christianity is above your tie to the lodge, what we're tied? No, I said you did? You said that themersonally? You submit, You said that christ is above the duty to the brothers, of the duty of a mason to his own faith. Well not, my My duty is to Christ over the duty to the lodge. Right, that's my point exactly. Or you see you personally as them, or more broadly, as like all people.

Just like any other. I'm a member of the National City Club. It's say private clause down talent vallsee quations. No, to equate that.

To freemasonry is a totally totally fault to take your pick of any group. You know, those groups don't require a belief in generic monotheism. And well, I think yasol ex Anonymous is a good example. I mean, this is an organization that requires a belief in the Supreme Being in order to go through the twelve steps. It's part of the twelve steps. And if you're not, your organization is not just requiring belief in a generic theism as

What does that have to do with whether it's theologically compatible?

So you know, every time it comes back to the actual question, it hinges on their subjective feelings, not the actual objective argumentation.

Tristan do you want to say something.

Yeah, I mean, it's just it's ridiculous because the whole debate.

I mean, I guess you knew this going in because of the debate prompt you were just like, okay, this is this is kind of a.

Softball because well, the debate is about whether freemasonry is compatible with Christianity. From for most Protestants, they can't even define who's a Christian, what's a Christian?

There are no there are no.

Boundaries, there's no landmarks. They talk about.

Landmarkies to the body of Christ. It's just it's kind of up to them to decide.

So it's so notice.

Masonry has boundaries, landmarks and ran lodges that determine your regular and irregular status, but Christian energy doesn't have that.

Hilarious Yeah, well, it's funny because masonry is kind of an artifact of a world before Protestantism became so boundary lists, right, I guess right. Protestantism didn't reach its logical conclusions yet, but masonry has maintained the traditions of that world, that reality of kind.

Of pre Victorian Victorian elite.

And they're like they're machinations and their pet not a humanism, a pet perennialism project, it maintained their tradition that Protestantism did.

That's crazy, our time to be Christian. I mean, there's so many different ways that I think any of us could be pointed out, certainly in judgment the ways that we've behaved or acted or believed. That's hypocritical to the

So he doesn't. Again they don't.

They never answer the question in terms of like whether it's objectively consistent.

They keep going back to, well.

Personally, I could believe that, and I could see a person becoming I'm not asking is it actually physically possible in history that a person thought they were a socialist and a Christian.

The question is is it consistent.

Growing with Christianity other than just Christianity. Is it possible to be a Gnostic and a Christian at the same time? Define Nasticism, the early Christian sect that teach the Gnostic teaching well Diile arsenal belief is gnarscissism.

It's heretical, but I think I think a Gnostic would believe themselves to be.

So you keep saying my personal beliefs. You don't think that it is objectively the case. You just think that it's subjective. So this is the Masonic might double He's say it's true because this is arsenal belief. Yeah, Darry, Well, they're protest not right, So I mean, are you the only so orthox and Catholics say different than I mean? Is ups to each Protestant to or decide that for themselves. You gave a different framework of a belief than you do.

This is an emotional appeal.

So Chase goes into just appealing to the audience that if I'm not a humanist, then I'm mean so I think I called this out as an emotional appeal to Christian name, but not authentically. Okay.

So the thing when the debate we had with them, and he was like, do you, uh, what do you.

Orthodox believe that Roman Catholics worship the same God is?

And I was like, I'm trying to be chitable.

If he pushed me, probably not.

And they use that as an emotional like.

Me, they are, Yeah, but that's what.

They're doing is opening the audience to question the absurdity of Protestantism and the I mean, he.

Made a great point earlier, and he brought out that they're.

More clear dogmas and boundaries to freemasonry than they're already even the most Protestant conception of what who Christ is

Master that comes up later.

Yeah, you know, it's aping liturgical practices. So you know, it's kind of brought us just me. That's natural for human beings that we all want the liturgy. We're all we all want Christ, the fullness of Christ, and uh, the lack of that in.

The Protestant world would maybe even lead a lot of people to try and join Masonry to discratch that age.

So whole thime access for five dollars?

Could the Masons have an argument if they said the Orthodoxy doesn't have a central structure or a pope either. Now, the question is not about a centralized authority versus no authority.

The question is are there authorities at all? I don't care if you think.

It's a decentralized body of regional grand lodges or whether you think that there is one pope. It's not a question of any kind of authority. It's a question of are you actually bound by authorities? And thus, if you are, that violates the idea that there are no authorities and I'm not bound by anything in my conscience. That's that's the point. Jay r Do you want to say some John, do you want to say something?

Well, no, everything you guys have been seen as really good in regards to the commentary.

But like at the time of of when when Mazzini is coming into there's like, like, I.

Don't understand how Masons can't understand that they're all organized under something directly against the Catholic Church, right, so they're asking for no authority, no central authority, but then they themselves are going to be the new central authority. It seems very simple philosophically now, but these guys don't seem to recognize that that's an organizing force around the world, whether it's a French Revolution or you know subsequent Jacobin things.

Right, Yeah, they move the goalpost to make it about whether it's a centralized authority. I don't care the original statement was. And even even Pike says this Masonry has no authorities. I'm arguing that they contradict. I don't know why this is so hard for these people to understand. It's just like the Mason mind f because I know Albert Pike says that there's no dogmas and they're freethinkers.

That's the contradiction. That's the argument.

I'm not asking does some Masons somewhere say you don't have to believe in any dogmas? Or is there a centralized pope of the Masons. I never I said that. That was never the argument. Only legitimate authentic Christians, in your point of view, are Greek Orthodox, No any Orthodox, any Orthodoxcuse me, I'm not trying to put words in

And is that compatible?

Is your question is a false analogy comparing it to the Masonic Society, which I do not accept and do not grant is a non theological society or argument is premised on that, And the whole opening twenty minutes demonstrated that you guys are theologically inclined. You just act like you're not. So it's a false equivalence. What is it? A Masonic lodge is not like the Green Party because the Masonic loge requires theological beliefs, even though you say

Though?

If it is a compatible blow it, it's a compatible belief No with Christianity because a Chayandia also has this da Notice what he just did there. He said we only require belief in a supreme authority when we already saw in the first thirty minutes that he qualified that to say, well, you can't be a satanis and you

I'm sorry, go ahead, Ryan, Yeah, I'll call a sales pitch.

However you want to frame it, you can do that. It's just the truth.

I said the simple version was nothing, and then I said there's more to it than that, and then we can get into it later. There's no attempt to hide or it's it's a simplification for the matter of debate, it's.

Moving the goal post. That's not simplification. We'll call it. Which one's a fallacy and one's lanning.

There's lots of belief beefs and teachings within masonry. There's few requirements or dogmas, one of which is this belief in a supreme being to whom Tennessee might be worded differently in other jurisdictions.

A fallacy either because we can't truly objective to know.

Anything earlier, Well, he did he seemed to not care about fallacies, So I think you're right, like, he doesn't care if it's a fallacier and I call whatever you want, Well, calling it a fallacy is really important.

If it is a fallacy, Tennessee, you have to be a of lawful age, which we require eighteen some jurisdictions. It's twenty one. He can't be a female, he can't be an atheist. You have to be a sound mind. We say, he can't be an old man in dotage, which is essentially you know, you have to batge your moral fact but Joe by, don't you.

Yeah, can be Joe Biden.

So yeah, there's some base level requirements. And then as we are interviewing people, we try to discover your moral characters, so to speak. And you know that can be subjective. I would suppose you know, we're not experts in that, but we we do our best in trying to figure out who are as the individual. For me at least, I would say, you know, if you're a Satanist, don't meet their requirements. If you're a Communist, I would say that would also, Yeah, I meet there is it up

I've never met a.

Boyn isn't that it's it's it's a could I lodge let someone in who shouldn't get in? Yesn't see. The question is how do you determine what good moral character is? What's the standard and chasea that's a good question. So if this is a society based around ethics and values and value judgments, those are metaphysical ethical claims.

I want to know what the good is. How do we determine the good? I think that's up to It's up to you with your relationship with God. Okay, but your other Massonic brothers can be Hindus who determine the good according to Hinduism, right, Yeah, there's a situation in which that is. Yeah, okay, So how do we know what the good is? It sounds relatives. Again, I don't know that Freemasonry makes a claim as to which of

Because it doesn't make those claims in the context of like past the Salvation. When it comes to our system, like you asked, how do we make good and better? We do have moral and philosophical teachings which are what based on what philosophy and morals that are brought in that are ar to Russells, Well, I'm a least let me answer, and I'll just tell you that's easy.

You can just quick cut me off and on said berge at Russell's philosophy or ET's philosophy.

Like a lot of you what I say, you can't you can't hear.

This is bizarre because like my dad was a Protestant minister and he hated premasons because of this exact thing. Like it everything that they're claiming as a Protestant is like the masonics of circumvents scripture.

Yeah, exactly, paradigm.

Yeah, there's there's two different It divides you against yourself, right, and this is really the idea of the public private divide that America has. Right you can have your private religion. Just don't let us spill over into the public sphere the whole. That's what that that is a Masonic idea, tell you so, Uh, we teach the four Carnal virtues for.

This is people that are involved in politics as well, because it's like, well, you know politics, this is a game of optics. It's a game of presentations, a game of convincing people that have compromised and that's separate from my spiritual life.

Exactly.

You get problems on both ends of that of.

That that divice exactly.

Yeah, to be produced temperance and justice. Why are we supposed to accept those like this is what we teach? Okay, but why are we supposed to think that's right? You don't really have to Well, do they make a clai relatives's a back to best of what we've been thinking about. Do they make a claim that that's right or is it just that's part of the group and if you want to join it, so be it.

Well we teach that these Yeah, that those are right. We tell you, just did the you know, the seven Liberal Arts and sciences are the way to make your ape, way to make yourself a better man.

Trivia. I'm starting to now all of the Masonic conspiracies now, because there's no way that this sect could have actually organized any meaning full revolution in history. It's a joke. It's a joke. It's just a joke. Yeah. I made Chase really mad with that joke because I was arguing that these guys are too dumb to actually have organized

And I thought after this he was going to leave.

Rather get mad now. So I'm not angry. I just don't have a response. No, that's you asked for us to answer a question. We start to ask you. Do you think that you have to be full You mentioned philosophy that you have to be philosophically consistent in your argumentation. Sure you have to be for what to be a Mason and a debate. Yeah, yeah, I think that that would be ideal. Yeah, okay, So can I make fallacious arguments against Masonry? Would you call it out? Were calling out?

Okay, it is those and more, it's part of it, and Laura, yeah, it's a lot to it.

And then you say that a Hindu can be in and he can have his system, and this other guy over here can be a Protestant and whatever. That's the point is that there is no standard of good by which you're making good men better. It's arbitrary, and I can't figure out how am I going to be a

I wouldn't have.

You don't know the Thuggies.

Dude, I grew up watching I've watched Temple of Doom probably five hundred times.

That was my favorite.

Well that's just that's just that's that's on you.

The Hassions. It's going to lead you to the Thuggies.

Right, yeah, Like there's all kinds of monotheistic or well, I mean again, I look, the best argument here is they allow Hindus in. Okay, Hindus believe in just absolutely demonic stuff, like so you're gonna make good Hindus better with Christians together.

It's just so stupid.

Yeah, nobody's seen Temple of Dream. It's in compatible with Christianity. Okay. By the way, the other thing that's bad about this recording is there was like ten times the audience was cracking up. And that's another reason why they got mad. Because when I made the joke about there's no way these guys could organize a successful revolution, the audience laugh really hard and that's what made Chase really mad.

But you can't hear any the audience laughing on this.

All right, this is a let's pivot for a second and talk about oaths. This is an interesting topic because in Freemasonry you have to take odes. I don't want to speak for you, guys, but my understanding is that's the case. And I want to read a Bible verse from James five twelve, which says, above all my brothers and sisters do not swear, not by heaven or earth or anything else. All you need to say is a simple yes or no, otherwise you will be condemned. Now,

To ahead Ryan, Yeah, so my interpretation doesn't come from Freemasonry.

That's just what I was taught. That person is all right, I'm gonna skip this because this is not even a contentious point. This is just kind of a Protestant, like you know, Quaker Baptist thing like can you take oaths? And I'm like, yeah, of course, we don't think that all oaths are wrong. You take an oath when you get married. So I'm just gonna skip this part because there wasn't really much there. So quick clarifying question is what is the principle by which an oath goes too far?

And then they don't want to talk about this is funny.

Uh, we won't discuss the specifics of those allegations.

Ah. Interesting, Why does any want to discuss the specifics of the blood oath? Yeah?

You can laugh at that, you know, Uh you can. You can go find them online if you want. You know, if you can find them online, on you and I would well, I'll explain. I will simply say that if you believe those are literal oaths, maybe may your claim maybe you interpreted symbolic. That's why I said, depending upon how one interprets those oaths, now, I know that there have been cases like the William Morgan affair where it was not interpreted as purely symbolic. Maybe you guys nowadays

Mean, like, uh, you know, in your in your rights for example, and you can correct me if this is wrong. The Royal Arts Degree, you reveal that the true name of God is jab Bulan yahweh bail and on. So that's in your liturgies, that's your rights and your rituals. That's not your theologians or your speculators. Here. I don't see how that any Christian would literally think that the name of God is Jabalon and then say that this is not a theological society. And I can interpret this

Is it back? It looks like maybe it's backwards.

The symbols, the entire name Freemasons comes from stone mason guilds. We use the tools of masons, We use the story of the building of King Solomon's temple to teach certain moral and philosophical This is.

Where they also really begin to falter because I started pointing out all the religious theological symbology everywhere in masonry. As they say, it's nothing to do with religion.

Principles, you know, just because we have a story out of the Old Testament or the pillars they were outside of I.

Mean just a story. Or is every element of the lodge in some ways symbolic metaphysical realities like the tile floor and the dualities in nature and Jacob and Boaz the two pillars from the temple, Is it not, for example, based on Kabbala. The has elements of Kabala, some relations and masonry. So again, the ambiguity in the term it's just a philosophy not a religion, is ambiguous precisely because you can elastically remove how far you want to make

Yeah, we don't I'm not a cabolist just because there's elements.

Yeah, But the point is not are you a cabolist? The point is that it's not just a philosophy, it's replete with theological meaning. Do you think the religions contain philosophy? Yeah, but that's not the question. The question is is free Mason is just a philosophy? If they do contain philosophy, we can't pull this Pallas because it's a parts whole fallacy. I'm arguing against your position that you said it's just a philosophy. I didn't claim that there's no overlap between

I don't think we're crafting them into anything that we want. We're very specific on what those symbols mean.

To I thought you said that I can if I'm a Hindu, let me just let me provide something I'm a Hindu and context, you know. So remember they said you could be Hindu and it mean what you want to us Indo, but they don't want to go there. If you look at masony throughout history, there was operative

Now.

Notice they immediately jumped on this to not let me finish what I was going to say. Yes, I was about to say, whether you interpret that symbolically or literally, rebuilding the Third Temple, it is the goal and the job of masonry to rebuild the Temple of Solomon. I disagree with that. Okay, So we just went to the

The act of improving yourself, we do take the symbolism of temple building physical.

Thank you.

This was the point I make you notice he didn't let me finish to make it seem like I was saying that they're all trying to build the Temple in Israel, which is not what I was. What I'm playing is freemasonry, and then we use those So he just admitted the very thing that I was saying. That's why I said. That's what I was saying, dude, right here.

Now, the act of improving yourself, we do take the symbolism of temple building physical. What I'm paying is it, well, freemasonry, and then we use those same working tools on building ourselves. We're not building physical temples anymore. We're building ourselves, I know, We're not rebuilding.

Okay, So that's the last plane of Organs. So obviously I'm not saying that you think you're gonna go really literally rebuild the temple Solomon. You're saying that thought, Well, you.

Kind of made that claim and some not tonight, But in the previous.

Art, no, I argue that maybe that is what you got.

You basically like acted like they were some Zionist organization that wants to rebuild the Third Temple. That was your claim that you've made in previous step. I meeting to it now. But freemasonry is bound up with Judaism, you don't you don't think so it has Judaism in it bound other demming and ing up with Judaism. I mean, he's just going to fill a lot, but none of ballish it.

Yeah. No, Christianity is not bound up with Judaism. That's false. I didn't.

We didn't make that claim you're saying to it. But because we did not always Christianity it's not I'm saying that just because something contains Judaism does not make it Judy. What I'm saying is, then you guys, through people like Maki, say go read the Zohar and the Talmud, and that's where you're gonna get the secrets of who God is. That's wherebeneck theology that is not ancient. I was certainly

Yeah, okay, I do. And you disagree with Harvard scholars like William Green who write books about masonryes ethos being Jewish Cabbalah, Yes, I do it so notice, but it really is seemingly a thing that you can make it into whatever you want it to be. Because when we bring up the actual Judaic ethos of it, and you don't find the emphasis on Christianity, except perhaps in later

They really thought constantly put the Bible together.

This part was funny, nice and council. No, he didn't put the Bible together. I'm sorry. No, he didn't.

The depth of knowledge that most Protestants have.

They don't know anything at all.

Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong.

But doesn't Pike talk about Jesus just being Adam Katamon? Uh?

He could?

I mean the chapter on the Church Fathers and the Trinity, he just argues that the Trinity is actually Neoplatonism, and he says it's.

It's like the reference going back to reference again, like the reference of Jesus is just to Adam Kataman.

Probably because if Pike's going to argue that the Trinity is not the Christian Trinity and that it's neoplatonic emanations, that's what he says. And he says the whole it's not a person, it's just the world soul, then that would deny the deed of Christ.

So yes, you know what it's called what's what refer information? Referation?

What is that a joke?

Yeah? Take it easy, man, I'm sorry.

I'm doing you like Chase did to me when I made the joke, and he's like, I don't have a response.

He didn't. He didn't want to laugh at my joke.

The Bible together, just a suggestion, Yeah, beat it up.

It is sped up.

Oh, I mean I could try faster, but it might sound like chipmunks.

Oh man.

Like so they were like, well, the other thing too, is like this got really heated, and I think they evened out the vocal stuff. And they also there's no crowd at all, Like the crowd was making noises and laughing this, so this is this is like evened out audio wise. I think everybody to come together and identify what's Canada, what isn't and no, okay, forgive me tell me. I mean, you guys believe the Bible, right, Like, what

Again, masonry is not making dogmatic claims about Christianity.

But it is we've seen that in this debate. What do you mean? What do I mean? Yeah? When when does Masony make dogmatic claims about Jesus Christ or Christianity. Well, the belief that you can be a member of the society just by believing in a generic theism is antithetical to Jesus in John fourteen six that I'm the way the truth in the life. So least say generic feism. What do you mean you also believe it a supreme

That my belief in Christianity that you know, I worship the same God as the Muslim, that would be a generic theism that you believe worship the same God.

The same God as Muslims.

It's a Muslim, I don't, Yes, you do, No, I don't. Yes, Muslim your society or Mason society accepts Muslims as monotheists and part of your society. So you believe that you could be a Christian and your theology doesn't play into the Masonic order and its teachings. And that's why it's double minded and double think. That's the point. I think it's just a Grossmith's understanding. Does Masonry teach the Muslims worship the same God? Masy doesn't take a claim, It

Who's playing word games now come on or the.

Truth they're allowing it. It would be on the basis of the fact that they now in this ass of all. The only reason that freemasonry requires a belief in a supreme being is so that when you take your oaths, there's reason to believe that you feel that you're held accountable to your supreme beings. So we're not going to try to convince a Muslim to swear an oath to a God that he doesn't believe in, because we understand that he won't feel held accountable to to keep the oath.

Supering being to him. All men are accountable, I don't know. Are you accountable to yourself? Yeah, because you are the supreme Being? I don't know, band you can't be insane? Well yeah, beyond that, I guess still like crazy people in are trying.

You know.

I'm illustrating a point that every time you appeal to supreme Being, it is sufficiently vague and generic. Heainst generic theism to allow for anything it appears. But then as we nail it down, it gets hyper specified and qualified about all of the things that don't count and all the things that do count, which demonstrates the point that you have a theology and a dogma, and you're not consistent with the other claims that you've made. That's the point.

It's like the whole thing is just just double.

Mount advocates and the belief in them. Now, you're dishonest because you said it's secular at the same time as saying that there are theological requirements to get in or Reversity of California and you engage in religious studies, it's still a secular program even though you're said a religod to believe in God quote unquote to get into the program, you require a belief in God, and then you have a generic God that's a contradiction. How is it not theological?

The teachings, the principles not a theology, just I don't know how else to say it. Did you do you believe that there are teachings and doctrines that aren't are not theology.

Like Are you serious right now? Are you serious?

Go for it?

Go for it. Okay, So you made a bunch of theological claims. Okay, what what? What are the bunch of theological things that you can't be in the society? Believe this is about ship requirements. You can't be in the society if you believe this is this about the deity in question? Those are theological claims and assertions. So you have a vast theology. Do you not understand this? This is a very simple Are you serious?

No?

I don't know. When you put the word fastin, did you not give me a whole bunch of people that wouldn't count, such as a Satanist and such as myself believe I'm God or something like that, said those theologies don't count. I would say that those people wouldn't get into a lodge. Yeah, thank you. So you have theological requirements. It's the point that it's a like a vote by the people and they would always vote that out, or that there's a specific crele. Do I feel like I'm

It's like not. This is not a difficult point.

Do you look like when you were talking to the Bara.

I actually think that they're not getting the point on purpose here, because this would undo the whole thing. You know, this is now you're going to be accepted into a regular parity. It's it's it's it's my.

Go ahead, Risen.

I was gonna say what you just said, but they can't. They can't grasp the point because if they did, it's over right. So they have to pretend they don't get the point, or convince themselves that they don't get a point to keep the think going as long as they can't, and then that probably increases their internal tension that led to them blown up on you a little bit later.

I guess it's nature an exclusive organization. I actually think DJ I'm not lying because there's a lot of people over there. This is probably wait, at least over one hundred people, and that's not a lot. But I mean it was really heated, and it doesn't give the impression that it was that heated from this because I think they even know the voices, and they've they've clipped some of the points to where we got really loud.

And whether it's a written rule or not. I'm not going to let a guy in that thinks he's.

Got thank you. So that proves my point that you have theological dogmatic positions. When you say that there's only one dogma, that's not actually the case. There are all these theological necessities that you have that exclude all of these other types of positions. That's the point. So it's not just a fraternity, it's not like a graduate program or like AA. That's the point. Well, I see what

To just redefine remove the goal posts.

Again, sure that is create as a conglomeration or a combination of the people who are actually a part of that organization. What does that tot? Yeah, I think he removed the laughter right and DJ unless he personally added me to this, he didn't even link me.

Uh so, yeah, that's kind of weak.

So what I'm trying to say is, what I'm trying to say is masonry that may not officially make a claim regarding the theological truth of Satanism, but because of the composition of the organization, it's impossible that a Satanist would ever get in, because then you're making a theological

What is that?

What's the things that exclude me from that? And you list all of these things? Yeah, right, he listed all those based off of the preference of any lodge. There's no way in the culture of free missionry that a satans would get accepted in any lodge, regardless of whether or not they technically would be allowed, just as there's no way that a Satanist would be voted into Congress, regardless of the fact that they're technically allowed to be

And you do.

We don't. We don't specifically have requirements you do because you said a you said, the theology of a Satanis is incompatible with the theology of Masonry. That's certainly my personal belief. But the notice he keeps shifting back and forth being sauce between the Masonic positions requirements in his own personal requirements.

That wasn't.

The debate is whether Freemasonry allows and should allow on the basis of what they say about Supreme being a Satanist and that it's saing consistent and he keeps.

Going to well, I wouldn't want it totally irrelevant to debate, dude.

I didn't say the theology of Freemasery said the principles and values of freemas or a epitheology. Nothing antithetical between a Satanist and free and a Freemason theologically. I believe that there is something antithetical between a Satanist and a Freemason philosophically, and that is my personal belief, which I think. But I was using a theistic.

Satanist, so I'm still unaware of these Satanists that think that he is the Supreme being.

Theistic Satanists believe that. Okay, it doesn't matter whether even if there weren't any I get theoretically propose that as a thing. Imagine you can't come up with every hypothetical

That's not I don't. It's not the question. The question is it's a test.

Case that's used like possible world's arguments. They're not saying the possible worlds are real multi versus their examples to illustrate the logical inconsistency and saying that Freemasonry has a dogma that you have to believe in a supreme being.

Okay, what if the supreme Being is Satan? Oh, that doesn't count.

Why because of this, this, this, this, this, and all the other qualifications are theological positions?

Well no, but it's because we don't like you personally.

How could it be I don't like you personally when the question is what's the theological contradiction between that being my personal higher supreme being? So they keep shifting it over to we don't we wouldn't let a Satanist in? Not asking you would you let a Satanist in? I'm asking on what basis is a Satanist not allowed in? If the supreme Being is himself or Satan? And they

That's the point. That's my argument that they can't.

Get books that you believe in because we believe that you believe you'll be held here. You believe it. I'm gonna say you're trying to remove it from what said. But did you just say free Masonry does not believe that Jesus song of God. I said. It doesn't even claim either way, it doesn't make it claim. All it claims is that you must believe in a supreme being. And I'm arguing that the Supreme Being itself. This line of argument that you guys have is a denial of

I think it.

Yeah, you guys, O there, you guys think thory objectively entire argument. Masonry objectively does not deny Christ. It's just objectively doesn't when you all like our alcoholics anonymous doesn't your believing and the supreme Deity is itself a denial of who Christ is. That's the argument. You don't believe

So the supreme Being is sufficiently generic to be Shiva, Hindu, whatever, allah. But also you can't be in it if you're a Satanist and Gnostic, et cetera. Hopefully people see this is so silly.

Oh, it is, as we've seen, as you qualify all of these things that exclude you. So yeah, but the way I qualified it was not by the official policies of any Masonic doctrine or law or writing. I was sufficient. I'm just telling you that the culture of the fraternity is never going to have house somebody like that culture. That doesn't matter. All I have to do is logically prove that when you say that it's a supreme being, it is not equivalence to the Christian doctrine of the

Still, having a base set of requirements or foundational beliefs is not the same as us being a religion or making the claim that all religions are equal. Then we're all words being the same God.

And I didn't argue that. I just simply argued that the claim that you allow for and require a belief and a higher power that is a supreme being, is itself already a rejection of the Trinity indi duty of Christ. That's the argument. Now you can say we don't require specific belief. None of that addresses the argument that I'm making. Do you not understand?

Now?

I think I understand. I just I just fundamentally disagree. And how is it wrong? Because I think that requiring someone to believe in a supreme breed, this is supreme being, in order to be a member of an organization is not explicitly denying any specifics. There's nothing you denied that it's the theistic Satanist being. So that's why you're wrong.

There's no conga I've ever experienced or been required in masonry that has alluded to or required me to somehow not have a belief in a trinity, not have a belief in Jesus. The fact that these are my individual personal beliefs that make me a part of this organization. And we've beat this to death, but we could go into like why this even exists?

Like why what I mean? They're still not addressing the argument. It's flying, it's right in their face and it's going over their heads. The argument is that must Masonry is teaching that you have to believe in some supreme higher power. The genericism there is inconsistent and as a dogma, and is also contradictory to what Jesus says about himself. That's the argument, and they keep saying, but you don't have to believe anything to be in masonry.

That's the thing that's contradictory to Christianity.

Why do we even have this fraternity where we allow members of different beliefs to be in it? And it's

So there he admitted theological qualifiers right there?

Make it a theology? Does that make it yeah? I'm genera that makes it yeah.

I feel a some sort of qualifier against Satanism makes it incompatible leak or Sianity.

These qualifiers, here's what it here. I'm the problem. These qualifiers are not a matter of explicit written Masonic policy. These qualifiers are a practical outcome of the content of the membership. All right, I think we've beat this to death. Let's uh, I have a final question. I want to go around the horn, and anybody wants to ask a question during this can go walk up over there and go towards the audience. Mike, Joel, and Sara, would you

Yeah, I'd really hate to pretend that I could speak for the Apostle Paul that said. You know, Paul was a student of comparative religion. He did study other religions, and he went in and tried to connect with him. I don't think I can't think of a theological position of the Apostle Paul that would be contradictrit.

Science exactly right.

Hopefully people can figure out where I'm immediately going to go, because it turns out there already is a biblical discussion from Paul about the Unknown God towards Freemasonry. Maybe Jay as one right, Well, so we actually have a biblical example of the very thing that was asked, which is essentially the mars Hill discourse where Paul goes to debate

And which There's some really good questions, by the way, which.

Aren't, and I really like that kind of Christianity. I have here with me the recently discovered Gospel of Jack. It's a very short book, but it is divinely inspired and perfect. Just like the rest of the Gospels. It says, and then Jesus said, give Jack Althorney all the women he may, he alone may have infinity wives. Do you reject the Gospel of Jack? If yes, why please?

Jay?

Answer? First, Well, Christianity was provided by Christ with a normative authority within history to make these types of decisions in a synodial conciliar way. We can see in the first thousand years of the Church that Christianity always had these types of local and ecumenical synods, and so that's the normative way that the church is governed. There are people who make the decisions of who's in and who's out.

Yeah?

What?

Yes?

I reject the Gospel of Jack. I'm going to answer the question why. Other than the fact that it was made up as an example an argument to ask a question. They never understand theoretical lines of argument. It's kind of blows my mind, like they actually just take every hypothetical as if you're saying it literally. This is so silly. It just doesn't. It doesn't line up with any that the context of the currenteology that I have, but I currently believe it's unnecessary.

So because it doesn't line up with Chase is current theology is the reason why.

It doesn't line up at all with any of the Christian philosophy in the New Testament. So do you determine the canon? Do I determine now? And Jesus does, but we do our best to determine the canon scripture. I'm sorry, where did Janus determined? I'm sorry that your question. Yes, So here's my philosophy on on the on the Bible. Let me just be explicit here. It's obvious he used the.

Term my current theology, right, So this is, of course assumption that your theology is in flux, is changing.

It's not eternally true.

I mean he affirmed earlier that he doesn't even think you can know absolute truth or have any sort of epistemic certainty.

So that's that's Briefically, it's from from the New Testament, that you can be a Christian before the Bible was compiled or written. Right, it's obvious that people readingmatized Christian even before Jesus was dead or any of it actually happened. There was Baptists that were taking place. And one of

Oh?

What are we still on?

All right?

Jack? Yes, let's just go to the action one here for a time sake.

I believe God's a paradox, and I think even now the Orthodox Church allows non Christians beyond the nave. But my question is specific for Ja, but everyone to chime in. I'm employed at a multinational corporation. We have over six hundred thousand employees, and we even employ irreligious atheists.

I have private, closed door business meetings with them. This is so, this is so low to here. This guy's like, so I can't be a new corporation because I'm in there with other non Christians. As if it's like an equivalence between the Masonic lodge and a corporation. Does that conflict with my Roman Catholic Christian duties in religion? I

A question for the two Freemasons. Saint Paul wrote about not being unequally yoked with unbelievers. Yeah, and I know you guys kind of touched on the oath taking and how we do take an oath in a court room and that sort of thing.

But you call your lodge members brothers.

Yeah, and.

I wonder about God.

Specifically calls us in the Christian faith to be set apart from the world. Why would you frat fat fraternize with people who believe in a version of the deity that is Antichrist exactly exactly?

Well said, yeah, that's a good question. I would say that, and Ryan out other t your thoughts too. I think that distinguishing between who's a legitimate brother in Christ is different than qualifying the people's fraternity brothers. So there are some brothers in the fraternity, for example, who would not consider brothers in Christ because we don't share the same

What would you say, Ryan, Yeah, that's essentially that. I mean, I would just add to it that, you know, the idea that what your original point about being unequally yoked. There is no you know, I've never had a Masonic brother try to talk me out of my Christianity to proselytize another faith. There's nothing that's made me doubt my faith. It's a personal journey, an individual journey that exposes you to different ideas, but you're left up, you know, as

And I've not seen the opposite. I've not seen a strong, strong Christians who don't even know when the Bible was put together, what Constantine did, I don't know anything about anything, but they're strong Christians.

Now, well, Christian man join and then somehow be turned into a Hindu or et cetera.

I would say that that's a great text because in the context of Corinthians or Paul's talking about that, he's talking about religiously, physically, theologically, you know, all types of unions that you could have with somebody says we can't share the table of demons and the table of God. We can't be unequally of for examply advices against marrying and unbelieving life. So there are spiritual realities, according to Paul.

That lead So again people in the chat, like you guys are not getting it.

It doesn't matter that Freemasonry says it's not religious. The argument is know it in fact is religious. And we demonstrated that for the first hour that they have religious commitments, even in saying that you believe in generic theism and a quote supreme being, that is a religious commitment that entails a bunch of other commitments. That's what I demonstrated to them when I said, can I be a Satanist?

Can I be a Gnostic? Can I believe that I'm God?

No?

No, no, no no.

So there's all these.

Criteria that exclude you from membership. And it doesn't matter if they say, but it's just because we don't like you, that's the exclusion. Well, the exclusion that you don't like me is still based on some standard of the good.

Or the bad. So they have an ethic.

Yoke us and link us through these types of oaths and organizations even though they claim that it's purely secular, as we've seen, I think tonight the claims are not actually when they're fleshed out purely secular, they're actually have lethological So actually think this is a really good point.

Bring up the obligations again. You're specifically told that they are not incompatible or above the obligations, the duties that you have to God, your family, your country.

Okay, are you brotherhood yoked with Hindus? Say again, I'm sorry, are you a brotherhood yoked with Hindus? Hmm, I'm in the context of a lot Ooh, I think this was a I forgot this part ODJ. I think probably the answers yes, but yeah, all right, I only each point, right, and just for the time's sake, Okay, sure you be one file point one final point. What I'm brotherhood yoked with my biological brother too, regardless of what he believes.

Right.

Yeah.

The implication there is that you're somehow because of that, uh, being yoked as in a marriage perhaps where you know you have someone of a different faith that you're married to, that there's there's some obligation or pressure there to adopt their faith and there's not.

Paul doesn't say that. He just simply says to be unequally oaked. I mean, could I be in the myth recult at the same time as being a Christian?

No?

Thanks y, next question, Thank you everyone for being here. Appreciated debate. This question is for Riyan.

You talked about how monotheistic Satanist would not pass a moral character test of Freemasons, so that kind of talks to objective morality. So I was wondering, how are Muslims able to become Freemasons when they believe in child brides, females, circumcision, other demonic wouldn't get in my lodge, I would.

Say, oh, and then they say I don't want it. That's not the question.

They would not be allowed. But there were not asking you, whereas in the lodge. Sure, yeah, well there's okay.

You brought up a funny example about the safety and my pronouncing that right and one of your videos to the practice of widow burning and Hinduism, and you imply that you know, because we may allow a Hindu that that we would have to accept this practice of widow burning.

I think no, the argument is what he said, it's what's the argument it's arbitrary? Did you not make that claim or I mistudying? More of the argument is not that you support widow burning, it's that the ethics or arbitrary.

I mean, this is solo tier.

It's like, obviously if I said, Hindus who believe in widow burning, how are you going to have a common ethic with people that believe that.

That's the point. So you're saying that I have to accept widow burning. No, this guy is just like, cannot get that.

No, no, no, There the entire system, the degrees are teaching very specific ethics, philosophy.

This is where I get him right here, and all that that was from. We don't know where cardinal virtues. Okay, so that's who That was one small example, but I mean where you never said where.

I'm gonna slow this down because it's the best part right.

Here they're from.

You said, I don't know.

No, I said, we pulled from a lot of different religions, and you pull from religions for your ethics. Oh we remember, this wasn't a the theological society. Those from religion.

It's not a religious it's not a theological society. Where do you get your ethics. We pull from religions.

Hear that the arbitrary.

No, no, no, the entire system the degrees are teaching very specific ethics philosophies from.

And we saw that that was from. We don't know where cardinal virtues. Okay, says who that was one small example, but I mean where. You never said where they're from.

You said, I don't know.

No, I said, we pulled from a lot of different religions, and we you pull from religions for your ethics. Oh we remember this wasn't a theological society.

Oh that's where it was really over it there, I think from religion.

Didn't you agree that religions contain philosophies? That weren't theos going about what you just said? Yeah, so you do you pull from religions. We pour your ethics philosophies that are You just said relative religions.

You messed up and said religions. We pulled from religions. We pulled philosophies at England with it. Do you pull your ethics from religions? That's what he said, and not just religions.

Some of it.

There is some stoke. You tripped up.

This is like a kid getting caught stealing in the cookie jar.

And he's like, what I didn't I was.

Going to get the cookies and also feed the dog with the cookies. And it's not just cookies for me.

I'm stealing the cookies for other robinhood. I'm stealing the cookies for all the kids in the neighborhood.

It's like, yeah, okay, we got you, dude, we got you.

And undid all of your first hour of argument is pressed on where.

You get ethics and morals from and that those are inherently religious values that you would have.

To be pulling from a religion. And then for him to even admit that, you.

Know, freemasonry or either at the cold boundaries do we we believe in certain ethics and morals And there are boundaries and you could be you know, if you were Satanists, you couldn't be it. If you're a bad guy, you can't join. It also contradicts. There's so many ways that you got him on that same point from so many different angles that it's, uh, it's it's crazy that he still thinks that he's able to kind of square the circle there, Oh, swear.

In the circle there? You just went full Mason on them right there, dude.

No, yeah, yeah you did. You just said you pull from religions and does everything in the first hour. I've said that you your whole first hour with us.

There you go, and I don't I hammer him Martal, Right, there.

Go the next person place.

I think you kind of us with a previous question. But you know, Jesus say is no one comes as a father. But through me, do you all make as Christians? In being Mason's do you make an effort to proselytize.

Muslims or anyway? The last part is the if you guys want to watch it, you can go watch it. But that's enough of this.

They didn't get me on the part about the there's just another false equivalence to say that for citing the Pledge of Allegiance is the same thing as Mason. You know, it's a false equivalent saying the pledge allegiance is not initiation into a blood over brotherhood based on around the Zohar. So no uh, anybody else. So overall thoughts, you guys feel free to talk about.

Whatever you want to. We'll read some super chats if you want to watch the rest of it. If you think I'm lying, you can go watch it here. What did you guys think? Who won the debate?

Here?

I'm gonna put a little stud poll here and and you know, be honest if you think that and do that, well, feel free.

Yes, but Jobulon is an option.

Jabulon won the debate.

Yeah, I think jabul.

Anybody else.

There was really one sided. I don't think uh.

I was expecting them to seem a little bit more heated too, like you said it, maybe it was more Well, this is edited the physiclean you can see their physical reactions to what's going on in the level.

Of the voice.

Well, they they balanced the audio levels and also uh, several I mean it was clipped. I'm not saying they didn't cut cut out any argumentation, but they might have cut out some of the angry parts. But it was intense. You can ask the people who were there. Uh, let's see, I'm re used a couple of super shots two cop True Tuca Trupa twenty dollars. Great to see Tristan back on the stream.

Guys.

I will split the super chest with Tristan tonight, so you guys are also supporting him.

Dank Bud five dollars. This was a dank stream. Snake Foot two dollars. Our last stream exactly bad.

Yep, it was a straight up pimp as hell, dude, The stream was pimp as hell, so sick, d it was so sick. Snake Foot says, get a PhD and then start a bipoc church and then Gavin will debate you exactly be cursed.

Five dollars. Will you be part of the new network with Alex?

Uh?

Yeah, I think so.

I mean I will at least continue what I've been doing. I don't know whether I'll have my own show or whatever, but we'll see. Nick says, I love the clip where Alex is interviewing the gall on the street about WHEMI Grove.

That's Dave Gergan.

Uh.

You know we played that before. Dad to the world. What's up? Craftsman?

Alex Jones getting a rear show by Craig Jones was awesome. Tango twenty dollars. It's gonna be a good night, boys and girls.

Cheer up. Cheers to Jay and the Chat and Tristan. Thank you. Frontier says Alex Jones is Bill Hicks. That's not true.

Alex looks like him. That doesn't you know, there's a lot of people look like people. That doesn't mean the art of them.

You don't look like them at all anymore. I mean maybe twenty years ago and that kind of rumors started, there was a little bit of physical resemblance.

But also if he was Bill Hicks, he would be like seventy something years old.

I know, it's so retarded.

I used to watch Bill Hicks in the early nineties on stand up and Alex was like, Alex would have been like a teenager. So no, Alex Jones was not Bill Hicks doing stand up in the nineteen nineties. That like noted the improv with Caroline Ray and all the stand ups of the nineties.

Bill Hicks just he blasted himself so hard with mushrooms at the end of his career when he was like dying, remember he was, he was getting really into the psychodey was he was a psychology MK ultra and he went and he he emerged from his MK ultra you know, kompa chamber.

He just as Alex Jones.

I don't understand the like people lived legit believe that people actually think that that is a Dogmas.

Pepper prophet says Jay Tristan. How does it feel to be podcast mogged by Jay Diaper?

I think I actually the first one is say Jay Dipper. We were saying that, like making fun of the people that have make fun of your names. There was Jay Dipper, there was j Dryer. I don't.

I think I might have been because I just thought Jane Ryer said like, that's not even an insult.

But then Sam Shamoon still causing a dryer.

No, now I'm gay Crier, so he's up to his game there, just like, yeah.

We're at fourth grade level now, But I did. I do think jasper Is is funny one.

It is like a four Well in grade school, I was Jay Diarrhea, so wasn't.

I thought that was oh ingement said Jay Diarrhea.

Know what I'm saying that it didn't begin with Benjamin. It began in grade school.

Grade sorry, that was actual grade school?

Okay, Well yeah, I would say I was trying to separate Internet for.

Reality, but I mixed it in there when I brought up to what was that? What's your favorite? Do you have a favorite like anshul name?

I mean, Jay Diarrhea is just classic because it goes back to grade school. So and speaking speaking of speaking, do you like how oh?

And also I had to make like a saw.

He had to turn it into like a sodomy, things like you can't spell.

Analysis with when when does he not turn it into pepe poopoo? And that's all I got to Yeah, you can't good sodomy all in his mind.

He had to go there. That was That was funny.

This might be the highest percentile debate. Yeah, so far, And of course it is my audience.

But right now pulling ninety four percent, there must be six percent freemasons but locksteps of for ten dollars, I literally poot my pants today at the park. Speaking of poopy stuff, he says, I was playing disc golf. We had to stop. Thank you for the strain. I hope your guts are okay. Intrinsic five dollars day. Do you know anything about You don't know anything. Tiger sauce is I don't know what that is and it works. So he's a fan of Charlie Sheen's Tiger Blood. Apparently it works.

He spurgs out. I don't believe Alex is faked, so I disagree recking five dollars. Do you see Rouslin sermon?

He cited Saint John Christistom as if Saint John christistm supports the teachings of the Rhythm Church. Well, I hope people are seeing through the fraud here of the nonsense, because Rousseline shared Redeem Zuomer's comment that the Protestant Reformers and the Church Fathers have identical beliefs on everything.

That's what they said, So not a masaud agent. Ten dollars. I'm at a at my friend's old Protestant church.

They said west Huff was the best apologist because he'd beat Billy Corson.

I said that west Huff is gay because he won't debate anybody. How can you be the best apologist when you won't debate anybody, Well, you just debate the one lowest hanging fruit, and then you declare yourself the victor. Rosie'll find out nobody even.

Knew Billy Corson was like, I had never even heard of Billy Corson.

No, he was actually he was on a he was on a podcast tour right before he was on Rogan PbD right before west Huff debated him and pretty much ended all.

That bumblebee five dollars.

Do you think Rouselo would agree to rap battle or would it have to be him battling your catechumen? Yeah, he's only going to battle a catechumen, right snake for two dollars.

No, we did that.

Leave it to Ethan ten dollars.

Jay.

The karaoke interview was phenomenal. I really I hope he comes back from more conversations. Yeah, I hope so too. It was a great, great chat, probably my favorite, one of my best interviews. Craftsmen ten dollars, we.

Did that, Tingu twenty dollars is going to be a long night boys, Thank you Frontier. No, we did that, Vanilla five dollars. Protestants used Luke twenty four to justify the Protestant.

Canon because Jesus mentions laws, the prophets, and the psalms. That doesn't tell us what the canon is. That's such a low tier argument.

That's just assuming that him saying that, I mean, you can make the same argument that in another verse where he says, you know in the law that, oh well, Jesus only says the law. So the canon is only the law, right, I mean, it's facilly.

How do we know? How do we if we're.

Gonna base our canon on generalized statements of the Old Testament, how do we know which statement is a canonical statement? Maybe we're supposed to be Torah only Christians because Jesus says in the Law. Well, the fact that he says in another verse in the Law, the prophets and the Psalms, there's nothing about that that tells us the specific list of the canon.

This is just silly.

Tipper Jay, Where do I buy your prayer book? Yeah, it's the blue one from Transfiguration Monaster. I don't know if you can still get him or not. Joseph ten dollars?

Will you cover the archangel urials text and fourth Ezra? Uh? Maybe I never thought about that. There's a response on the Mystery of Suffering. It mirrors the response to job. Interesting.

It's been a long time since I read any of the deuterocononical historical texts. I mean I was actually I did reread Sirich recently, and I read reread Wisdom, but I haven't read judahth or Toba or Maccabee's or as us or any of those in a long time.

Soday, I should go back to those A million oh five dollars. Thank you for your content. I'm writing a paper on the Big Z for my pastor. You have books on the history of the Big Z.

Well, the best one is roth Chill's biography by Morton, and Moses has his book Jerusalem and Athens.

Nick, ten dollars. In the scope of you two, you have two hundred k. Rouselm has eight hundred k. They're not far apart. Uh, what do you mean? Not far apart? We're blowing them away. What are you talking about? Simple things?

Pointing out that we're meant to be in nature of me Nashville, and this is where we find the source that God made you transcend the new world order. And that's why the one trying to keep us agree.

I've had these people there, a bunch of Christian murderings, coms death back just keeping baby is alive.

He needed all about these people.

I go round to taste these stones and literally crawl out from a box and.

Skin and ruating we want babies.

I had them on the all.

Right, that's not bad, No, Nick, We're blowing away.

Is right happened?

Okay, here we go.

You resist the.

Creepy weird six set up.

Man, she sleeps in the same room with that creepy weird a woman who's mother wizzard.

Hood over her head.

The woman noble.

Woe is ugly.

Imagine how bad she smells.

Man, I'm told her head Obama, just stick Obama and you reports.

And a sofa.

In help fire About there.

The captains holding around the after rose, steering.

Against close to that evil head up heeling gold.

Are such self serer crap we don't even know it head itself rising up against the billions of parting.

The people of the very worst stapp Man, I'm so dis We're gonna stab your daughter at the moment. Oh oh oh, I'm gonna.

Stab your wealth.

Yes, we're gonna stab you with the budget.

And then ladies Jesus going to say we know we love our Muslims.

Oh.

Bond Ever thought they were going to really get at Alex with that satire and it ended up being like thirty million views on that song.

Bony Be didn't do that. That was like a honeion type thing that they did. It was some game turn.

Type as yeah, yeah, it's not bonny Bear.

It's it's super well done and they innitated a style like perfectly.

But it's not it's this whole All this time, I thought it was let's see, because it sounds like that, we'll see.

I'm thinking intern it was like somebody. It wasn't even you know, didn't comedian or anything. I think it was obviously a few people wrote that together and didn't write it, but it found really good clips. I mean it also shows, I mean, they really proved.

That Alex is just legitimately like one of the best modern poets. Literal vampire pop elly goblins are hobbling.

Around coming after Its like you don't even have to sing it.

It just sounds so literal vampire pop belly goblins are hobbling around coming after Okay, So Sander crap, we.

Don't even notice hell itself rising up against us.

So Nick, you're right.

It's a guy named Nick lutz Lutskow, a comedian and singer. Okay, I've never heard of this guy, Nick lutz Lutskow. He's not even like capitalizing on it's like his biggest thing, and he's not even like capitalizing on it. Let's see maybe he's got it on his channel, Nick Lutzkow.

And the thing is, it's all Alex, right, I mean Alex wrote all those lines, and every one of the lines that's in it was so good. Yeah, he's he's at that point with the time period where those uh, where this cliff came from. He was such a good wordsmith. He has he's lost his uh.

I think he's he used up all his words because he's there was a time when he was just so funny.

Man, he was so funny. I still like Alex, but yeah, it was there was there was a period where he was just on fire.

Doctor Egman two dollars.

I can't comment on that because I haven't read enough of other Stephen Young in the in the in the text to say so, I don't know roziel I message you on Discord.

I'll check it out.

Great Scott uh says, here's a little money for the stain remover for that shirt.

Yeah, I'll spit the coffee out on my shirt earlier.

Great Scott says, you use some club soda, it'll get the staining out. President Retard twenty dollars. Tristanna Diva Mogg's Jay, Oh my.

Gosh, that's not true. I can't believe you said that Tristan is the songbird of a generation.

Wow. Wow Is that a separate superhad or that was just one superchand.

No, that was one guy. You have a one super fan in the audience.

I can't refute that. I mean I would try. I can't.

Emilia and twenty dollars, Jay, what book you recommend on Rome changing church Father texts and forgeries? Uh?

The two volume set that Uncut Mountain put out, Uh, Latin Error's Blame one and Blame two.

I forget which volume has the the sections of the forgeries. But uh, George whom we interviewed on the channel, you can find an interview on that. He's pretty much the guy who just kind of went all into that.

Would it help with the Philly Okuay That one will deal with that.

But the Philly Oquay book had to read Sashchensky's book on the Philly ok Way too.

Sergi has five dollars.

John Adams doesn't get enough props, good recommendations from him.

Yeah, he's a great Uh.

In fact, mat him on the on the trip out to California and he gave me a big old stack of books, so he's always given out books. I can him as sisteen dollars. The Masons sound like they're a blend of new agers who pretend to be fancier and smarter than they are. Maybe I'm wrong, No, and the New.

Age actually comes out of Masonry.

In fact, Madame Levatski wrote an article back at the turn of the last century for the Scottish Rite Journal, which is a Masonic journal, saying that Masonry would be kind of the era of the religion of the future, so to speak.

And then also in the Sri publication.

Was it called what's the changing Changing Images of Man?

Changing Images of Man? Yeah, the last few chapters of that, I think if he's the last few chapters.

Basically their model for the future man and how you structure society is Freemasonry.

MATD.

Burns says rouslan Ak, the failed rapper Jay Rock is co opting Orthodox Christianity because he knows that his grip is now exposed.

This is the natural progression once people get exposed, it seems to be the case.

And by the way, like I'll never stop going against these guys once you you know, try to do this kind of stuff to me, like, I'm not donna stop, so we'll be like Alex Jones over here, I'll keep going.

JB five dollars the biggest EVA again, I think that's already been decided a long time ago.

So well, I mean, I don't see any super chess backing up.

You're a good claim, But that's.

Fine, Tristan.

I sent that one in under a soccer account to make you feel better, just so you would come back to the streams.

I did that so you come back to these streams, dude.

Come on, Uh, let's see we got JB says that the Masonic position is demonic.

They're blatant relativists. It was implied, but decidedly acknowledged in the debate. Yeah, I think that. I think they did constantly. They wasn't just implied, They multiple times were relativistic in their arguments. But Guru ten dollars, I was a retarded vegan for seven years, not that I ever liked that clown, but I love the debate that you have with Vegan gains.

Back in the day. Through with Tristan. That's how I discovered you and how I got back into good stuff.

That's good. It's how I've seen you. It's good to see that you've climbed since. Thank you. Yeah. In fact, that was one of the.

Early debates was actually me and triest in versus ask yourself in Vegan Gains Remember those days.

That was such a funny people still laugh about. But some of my like i OL friends.

Still the fact, the fact, the fact, the fact, the fact, the fact, the fact.

They both short circuited so badly. I actually I forgot how much I interacted with Vegan Gains. I had so many So I had a lot of interactions with Vegan Gates over the years.

He still makes videos. I guess he's still around.

He hopped into the debate that I did with Gnostic Informant and tried to mog Christianity by saying that his god is crom like Conan's.

Yeah, it was so stupid.

I mean it's been this was.

Almost ten years ago.

It was a twenty eighteen or seven years twenty. I think it was twenty eighteen, twenty eighteen year.

So yeah, we're eight years and he's still got a narcissistic wound from it.

Sleeping gay Scuping Zebra five dollars. Patriarch Carol, how would you respond to reports of corruption? You're asking me if I was patriarch Carol?

How whatever? Spawn I'll understand the question.

How do you feel about blessing a weapon during a war? I mean Orthodox Church has always blessed the soldiers and the weapons. Chase ten dollars. I was sold by Masons that it's an allegory for fraternal use the way that college scholarships use is to say.

And that thus would induct you through the symbolism.

I'm not one.

So what is Jabulin. It's it's a religious I mean they're using syncretistic principles to create secret societies that are so supposedly supra religious and supra national.

Right.

That's why it's an international body organization.

So the fact that they liken it to a college fraternity has nothing to do with whether or not it's actually religiously committed and it's commitment and its positions. And that's what I argued in the debate I think successfully. So the fact that you're saying, and this is what.

Almost everybody did, right, Like almost everybody who's defended it or argued for it says even the guys that came up at the end of the questions are like, how is this any different than joining a corporation that is secular. The whole argument is that it's not secular, and that you keep saying it secular, but then you go back to saying, here's all these religious positions is that you got to have to not be excluded.

Proves the point. It's like, this argument just flies over everyone's head and I'm not being mean to you.

I don't think that's Chase Geyser.

But what about Leo Taxo admitting that he lied about Mason's. Well, what does that have to do with any of my arguments?

All right?

So that's that's as fallacy of irrelevance. It's not relevant to if somebody lie. If somebody lied about Christianity, that has nothing to do with proving Christianity, right, So like, uh, I prove that, uh, this is the fallacy fallas Right. So if if Richard Dawkins writes a book and somebody exposes that he made up all these quotes and lied about Christianity, that would improve Christianity.

Right.

So Leo Taxil making up lies about Mason's doesn't mean Masonry is.

Therefore good and not still a subject to critique. Look up the fallacy.

Fallacy chronicles the Freemason in the space sound retarded ice Wolf.

Thank you. I will eventually convey this to my father. It convey what you miss them and I must miss something talking about some earlier I don't rember what you're talking about. Not a Massaud agent says, for ten dollars, it sounds like they're Masonic Supreme Being is part of the non binary, non identifiable, non gender community. Actually, in the.

Masonic text they say that it's Adam Cadman and it's bisexual. So as you heard me offer as an argument at the by the way, they never addressed the yone argument at the very beginning that they worship PEPs and the JJ's exactly.

So they admit in their own system that Freemasonry is fake, gay and Jewish.

Well, if you say, if you want to say that, direct to people to go to the Zohar to figure out who God is is Jewish, that's up to you. Tristan Consequently, he said, coincide. Coincidentally, he says that this is also the ven number to a twenty eleven explorer, the m M I w G two s Joel LBG t q q I a community TINGU twenty five dollars. If you could sit down for a couple hours to talk to anybody from history that isn't Jesus, who would you pick?

I don't know, Tristan, after we die, how's that energetic distinction?

But I think that's just a death threat.

No, it's not. It's okay, Candice. I know you think everything is a threat against you.

Suddenly, but it's the gang Stalkers exactly, the gang shovistaraty. There, I've sent the hitman, and in Tristan's gonna I'm gonna regret it, and then I'm gonna wish that I could talk to Trustan afterwards.

But the top of the top diva, I'm the top t I'm the top target targeted individual diva and there after me.

But climbing to the top requires ruthlessness. And if I'm going to be the top of diva, sometimes sometimes you know, something might happen to the competition. I don't know.

That's a joke, by the way, where people try to full the stream energetic distinction of dollars, How do we get our family.

To understand that Masonry is Satanic?

Is it?

And it's a different alter than God's. I mean, do you not think that? I mean, the debate debate not show that.

I mean, if you don't believe that, if you can't see that relativism is the Satanic point, then your your your family's just going to be Normies like every other normy because all the normies are all relativest.

That's your truth, man, it's true for you. It's true for you, dude.

That's like basic bitch normy right there. And the Masons are basically saying that throughout the debate.

So Altar boy, five dollars, what.

Are you saying if the cops say I'm not driving drunk, but my actions are that I was driving drunk. I guess you're talking about the Masons, Like if they're saying I'm not denying Christ by joining us society that denies Christ because I still believe in Christ. Right, I caught him at ten dollars. John says, anyone denies the deed of Christ is Antichrist, exactly as we say against the Muslims. So is it fair to say that Masonry is Antichrist? Yes, exactly,

I thought that was absurd in the debate. D jewels five dollars day. It's interesting that you aren't tagged on that video and there's a bunch of edits. Yeah. I don't know why DJ did that. Maybe he may be.

Working with Chase. Chase moved to Nashville, so they might have work that they're doing together. I don't think he was. I mean, I didn't notice him cutting out any substantial debate points, So I'm not accusing DJ of doing anything in that regard because that was everything that I remember

I don't have.

I have a couple biographies of will Build Donovan, and I have his own autobiography, but I don't have that.

No, that's a big project. I mean a historiography, like if it's going to be exhausted, that's going to be.

Like I mean, yeah, like.

I want to write a book on geopolitics and espionage. But the problem is that it would just be so difficult to to figure out how to do it, and it would be so much work. And then then you have to think, will anybody even buy this? I don't even know that they would.

You have to pick, you know, think of like one chapter you would do in that book, and that's a book.

Yeah, I might have to like I might have to like narrow it down to like uh, espionage and the church, you know what I mean something like that, or really.

YE think if you do a broad a broad take on it, it's it's impossible. It's gonna end up being like a you know, three one thousand page volumes.

Yeah, i'd be like a life's work.

There's a complete historiography on OS s c. I A, yeah, and written about things in twentieth century history.

Right, exactly material.

I remember the my French Revolution professor when I was in the undergrad the French Revolution professor, he said that no event And I think you wanted to say because it's it's so long since the French Revolution. I think that and this was way after the Big nine event. I think he said that no event even world War two, that like maybe it was World War two in French Revolution, like you could never read all the books that have been written on those two events.

So yeah, that's that. Tracks that makes sense.

Death takes.

I'm going to the shape story. Do you need anything? Lamarconi five dollars? What is your beef with Sam Schamun.

You can go watch all the old live streams where you lay out what the problems were with Sam Shimun. I'm not gonna rehearsal that right now.

JV Jay, you should do more with John Kiriaki. The two of you complimented each other very well.

Thank you. Lamarconi says, for five dollars, can you explain Orthodox stance on faith and works.

I'm having a hard time explaining it and defending it in OC. You over there in Orange County, dog I don't know if he means Orange County or the Orthodox Church, but you get something like, you know, Rock and Sand Father Josiah or look up. But guys, we've got a lot of old podcasts and videos on you know, justification by faith alone and the problems with that. So I would say you gotta gotta check out those old live trems.

In a in a hot minute. It's been a hot minute, but Ac is back in the chat. Long time supporter super chatter.

Ac says, this is my hit job for Captain tazariyak uh Oh. So we've done lost Ac from Orthodox to the BHI. He's now a black heeber Israeli as a white man. Don't make me make sense to it, because it ain't gonna make sense.

Mad Finland eleven dollars in regard to Ruslan and his comment about Jade Jay's Lovely which Jay fails to realize that the five.

Langue Love Language are like the DITTI key to evangelicals. Oh, I didn't even know this is a thing amongst evangelicals.

I didn't really.

I mean, I know they're gay as hell, but like, I don't even know what that is. They literally handed out copies of the Love Language at my old church of Christ. Jay puts on respect on Gary Chapman. Okay, so this is an evangelical like way to make yourself more gay.

Okay, I got it.

That's actually a marked I think that's actually a Marvin Gay album language.

Okay. But it's starting to make more sense now that this is like a popular evangelical thing, which I don't. I mean, I haven't been in the world of evangelicalism since nineteen ninety nine, so but maybe I don't know when this came out. Let's see when it come out. Okay, so this is nineties. Oh look they got that Memphis. What's that horrible dystopian tech art style Corporate Memphis. Oh my gosh.

If I see corporate Memphis and faceless black and white people together, yeah, that's perfect.

For the rusalom Ruslan. Ruslan's whole rhythm Church should be decked out in icons with Rouslan Saints in corporate Memphis. That would be perfect for him. Triple seven, you know branch.

In New York, you can be.

Uh, excuse me, excuse me, you mean Tristan Tristan. I think you mean a franchise of the church. Franchise exactly triple five dollars. When will we get a Gnostic pope with Jay Dyer Who's Gnostic pope? He is an ex Muslim who became Orthodox Catechyuman. Okay, well, I'm not familiar with him, but that's he sounds like he's making the right moves. Uh, all right, hold on, we got to check the super chats over here on YouTube because those are separate and always always missed some of.

These, so uh, TJ's takes five dollars. I can't see if you made a comment.

Ac says for five dollars, this really shows the trajectory of the Middle Ages and Protestantism to Masonry to relativism and liberalism. That's actually a good point, right, You kind of have these phases historically in the West, ideologically speaking of the movement from you know, medieval Papism to Enlightenment and Protestantism and Enlightenment and then you get Masonry and then you get atheism. Right, And that's exactly what sat Gregy Palmos said, the trajectory would be of the West.

Great comment there, ac two.

The we sing gave out a bunch of memberships. Appreciate that, man, I appreciate the generosity tonight. I think I got all the super chests there. Making sure guys remember head on a chalk dot com remember to subscribe to our bro a Tristanna. Tristan is linked in the show description the Tristan Haggard YouTube channel. Be sure to subscribe to me on x and everywhere.

Digital says for ten dollars, it would have been funny as.

Hell if you could have dropped the Muslim painting from the Masonic Museum. When the ball guy said that they would say hell no to Muslim members, that's not true though they have Muslim members. You can, I mean, Chase admitted that what they were saying was they don't believe they personally are worshiping the same God as Islam, but they can be in the society with Muslims because they're affirming the same quote generic God personally.

So you know, it's how silly that is. Oh.

Rachel Wilson says, for twenty dollars, Jay one over two Freemasons. The Freemason homo is an easy dub. Rachel says, give Jay your money.

All you pay piggys ooh pay Piggy pro Zilch coming in clutch for twenty memberships. He gifted twenty memberships. Thank you so much. Zell's appreciate that. Appreciate that.

Alan Yee says, stop that Freemason cap. Pay Masons is where it's at you exactly, and now I have no more to this Freemason. I'm talking about getting paid Mason over here.

Again.

We got people talking about Tristan mogging me in terms of diva status.

I'm just going to have a rage quick. I'm going to have a rage quick read these ones. All right. I'm sorry we got Walter, I've been waiting minute. Yeah, I'm sorry. I forgot to go to the people in the in the queue here, what's up dog?

Hey, good to hear you guys again. I just I'm just here. It's like quite early.

I'm from Germany, by the way, I guess I want to tell you I want to start Twitter spaces myself, trying to do the social media thing.

Got the blue check mark and all that.

I'm wondering, like, I need some guests, like and I'd be very glad if like you are Tristan or both ideal, like we could set up some cool Twitter spaces.

I would like to interview you guys.

Uh.

Well, yeah, I hit him up, hit me up in the the messages.

Uh, and I'll.

Yeah, I appreciate that. Okay, I appreciate it. Man. Yeah, we'll take a look at that and we'll forgot out a time when we can do something.

Colper, what's Up's my handler? So he speaks from me?

He has and I have to ask, right.

I asked Karaoku what to say, and Karaoku asked Putin what to say. So it has to come down the chain of hierarchy properly.

We have to do it in the right order. TJ says. For five dollars, pay grind g. I think he's talking about Brian Shapiro.

I don't think when I mentioned when I started laughing, when I missed when I was talking to John Kiyaku and I was thinking about peaky blinders and I said peaky grinders, and I was thinking of Brian Shapiro. And I don't think John Kiyaku. He probably just thought I was talking about the sandwich, the grinder, Culpeper. What's up, col Pepper?

I'm you.

Hey, can you hear me?

Can you hear me? Uh? Huh?

What's up?

Man? You said Culpepper.

You understand the history of that, right, No, Coulpepper was the name that Washington gave Colper before he named them Culper.

Okay, well, I can't see I got Boomera. I'm sorry.

Yeah, No, I'm a boomer too, dude, don't worry. Uh, Tristan, I'm a fan of you.

I just followed you, all right.

I'm immediately going to meet this guy because we're getting too many.

Uh.

This is not I did not expect it to go this way. There's too many, Tristan. My biggest thing.

I called before you, Remember I told you my mom like married a bunch of people and had a bunch of husbands or whatever I called like months.

Ago, me or him or who are you talking about?

I called you.

I called you and your mama had a bunch of husbands.

Yeah, he said.

This, This ain't Jerry Springer signing the Saint Oprah.

But what I was trying to say one of the husbands had a Masonic Bible. Oo. Yeah, dog, So I love the Bible. My grandmama she gave me a King James.

I read it. They went through you remember the King James. I had like the maps in the back. Yes, yeah, you would go through the maps.

You're like, ooh, just as the old Israel and here we go.

Yeah, if you go back in the back of a.

Masonic Bible, it's like a bunch of Egyptian hieroglyphics.

Oh I didn't know that, dude. I opened up the Masonic Bible.

Wow, it was like the Iohaus a bunch of Egyptian highero glyphics.

And I was just like, Mama, what the fuck is this?

Yeah, well I'm not Yeah, I'm not surprised because I have seen appreciate that culprit.

I have seen Masonic Bibles, you know, the big, big ones that they have the lot.

I've just never spent a lot of time flipping through them, so I'm not surprised that there's you know, like egypt you know, esotery, Egyptian gibberation in the back.

But that's that's fascinating, Connive. What's in the back? Exactly right?

I would to make an edit, like a cringe core edit song of some of the same thing. That's some of the things he just said.

Talks by the way, Uh, your mom with anybody right now?

Jay, you know that nickname of your mom is the I Ah Risk.

Oh shit, connive conveyive, what's up man, I'm here now.

My Michael isn't working earlier. But I just had a question about and just for.

Context, I told you I was a Catholic before, and I'm currently discerning between the Catholic Church.

And Eastern Orthodoxy.

And I've been writing an evangelical letter to someone that I know that's a non practicing Catholic and just believing in atheism. And I thought it was going to be easy, like an easy letter, right. Oh, I'm gonna list the five arguments from Aquinas.

And while I was writing the letter, I found.

A video by you rejecting the first argument of motion.

And I found an argument against.

Natural theology by Father and I don't know how to pronounce his name, Deacon Annius.

Nice, Yeah, I blink, but.

Yeah, And that was based on like epistemology. But I don't have a very good understanding of epistemology yet because I haven't studied it.

So my question to you is, if.

You were in my situation, how would you create the most coherent argument for the existence of God if you reject natural theology and correct me if I'm wrong on your position, and what arguments would be the most logically valid while also being plausible to a heathen.

That's going to be really difficult to convey in a letter to an atheist. I mean, I'm not telling you not to do it, but you know, we got a lot of videos kind of explained TAG, so I'll go I would say, go check out any of the TAG explanation videos or Father Deconductor and Ice on his channel. He has a whole playlist on TAG and his channel is Patristic Faith Chase.

H uh oh, this is.

Getting a little too haggardly. I mean, we've got too much haggard energy in here. It's just kind of sap in the room. So yeah, you can.

You can boot Tristan. Let's see he's done. Okay, yeah, you can remove him. Tristan, are you there? Hello?

I think he's not going to talk to you.

He's a tuning out the sound of his voice. Who's this? This is your former brother.

The family asked me to send you a message because of your good performance tonight, we'd like to.

Go back to stop.

Stop mute him, mute him, please mute him. Sorry, this is this is not your cross exam time. The family would like to offer you a place back at the table. Okay, we'll call you by your name. You know you got mad and calling you the other son. But we'd like to offer you a chance back at the table.

See we got reconciliation happening right here.

Do you accept the terms? Somebody just tell me when he's done talking, I'll come back.

Okay, all right, Well, you.

Know we're proud of you. Parents said that they'd like to soon say they love you. So that's all I want.

This has to do with people transition.

This has to do with detransitioning and where people are at and their journey and you know, that's.

Kind of what's not funny? I know that's not funny.

I'm not making a joke.

That's not a funny joke. Bro, all right, no apology. All right, well I'm headed out.

That's it.

That's all right.

Well that's all you can do. That's all you can do.

Chase, good luck with him, Kristen says, get on with gnostic Pope.

Okay, yeah, we'll see nastic Pope, he says.

Triple Triple says he has three hundred and eighty six on TikTok. I'll have to just see who he is. I'm just not familiar with him, but I appreciate the recommendation. All right, had the Heath what's up Heath? Who that's a Heather Heath?

Guys, I'm gonna split the supertisal twist and last chance to also support Tristana Heath. What's up man? Last chance? All right, you're done? Goodbye?

Uh for the record, Jade, just want to clear things that with some of the slander that you you levied at me earlier, saying that it was my tech problem. I've done two separate tests and my connections one percent, so I think there's something.

With uh.

It could no collab cam on O B S. But I mean I don't like I had no problems with UH karaoke, So I don't know. Dictis what's up?

Okay?

How you doing?

What's up?

I sent the super shad about the UH the C I a storiography. I have an interesting passage here if you want to hear it.

Sure you're familiar with Intrepid the Montgomery.

Right, William Stevens and William Stevenson Inupid.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's a quote here. So this is from Donovan and the CIA by Thomas Troy, which is a semi official uh CIA history. It was written for incoming CIA agents to know the history of the Foundation and UH. He says here in the preface to the second printing.

About the book a man called in Trumpid.

He says, the story an impressive and fascinating one has never been told. However, on the basis of publicly available primary sources, and consequently many claims or details remain undocumented.

Two of these name mentioned here.

The first is the market quotation attributed to the author Stevens and Donovan, detailing the time plays the subject of the conversation.

The first meeting of Donovan TRUMPID.

So basically he's saying that there's evidence that Donovan and uh and Trumpitt knew each other by the comic connection to Vincent astor Uh in FDR.

Yeah that, I mean, that comes up in old boys like they talk about.

I mean, Donovan was a Rockefeller representative, and Donovan had an office at Rockefeller Plaza from from the Rockfellers.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. William, I'm sorry.

William Stevenson had an office at Rockfeller Plaza from the Rockefellers, and Donovan was a work for the Rockfeller Foundation before he would do all that stuff.

Yeah, I picked up hersh on your recommendation. That's been great to have for the project.

Yeah. We arguing for extensive I'm limited to like seven pages, right,