To be an antimedic because chapter eight is about Jesus punishments in hell in the Talmud. So that's all true. But the thing is that probably if you're debating with a knowledgeable person, which not many evangelical zide and zions are going to be that knowledgeable, but they may say something like, well, you know, the tumbutic discussions are a bunch of rabbinical debates, and they don't all necessarily constitute
a universal opinion in Judaism. Which the problem is that, okay, that's that might be the case, but most of the time when you talk about rabbinic Judaism that it's completely relativized, such that you just follow whatever your local rabbi tells you, and you're not supposed to go asking a bunch of This is a rabbinic principle. You don't go ask a bunch of other rabbis what the truth is because you just go by what yours says, and well, if you say, well,
what if they contradict each other, it doesn't matter. So it's a relativized type of position.
So kind of similar to like Islam in that way too.
It is very similar. Yeah, it's like, yeah, you have hatdieths wh's were all insane and you've got He's insane temeletic things. And by the way, the hadieths Uh and the Quran borrow heavily from the Talmud.
Yes, I heard that actually the other day that someone was giving me an explicit example from the Uh.
Yeah, I have one, say, I have some example saved in my bookmarks here.
Yeah, that's that's pretty wild, honestly, but that that's it. I just wanted to know what your thoughts were on that. I appreciate it, and Uh, keep up the good work, Jay, We all appreciate you.
Get Jesus and the Talment by Peter Schaeffer, who is himself I think some kind of rabbi.
Chris again, Hey, so on that point of Islam and Judaism being similar, do you find any distinctions or similarities between Christian Zionism and let's say the Zohar that places this like undue emphasis.
On spirituality and sort of just like being Did you find any similarities between the Kabbalism and the drive of the Christian Zionist movement.
I mean, there probably is some connection there, but much of the kabbala is like repurposed and retooled Neoplatonism and neoplatonic sort of world structures, or the Porphyrian tree, for example. So I don't think evangelicals even know what any of that is, and they're really just too stupid to even look into that. So I doubt there's much philosophical depth to that degree, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's not some connection anybody else. It's open for him, hit
request to speak. If you'd like to discuss any of the topics we've covered tonight, you can come to the head of the line.
Jam Hello, sorry again part of my ignorance, but could you give a brief summary on like the canonical justification for Sunday worship.
Canonical, I mean it has to do with the New Testament talking about that the Sabbath of the Jews is fulfilled in Hebrews four and in the Book of Acts, they consistently meet to worship the Lord on the Lord's Day, such as John saying that he was in the spirit on the Lord's Day, that's the day of the Resurrection.
Okay, I appreciate it, sure, Onion, I mean, hellon yes, sir, Hey, Jay, First.
Of all, I just wanted to say, I'm you're probably your greatest answer. I'm twenty years old. I was like a suicide and nihilist before I found your stuff, So.
I really appreciate everything you do. I really appreciate everything you do.
My question was just about what are your main criticisms of Mormonism. I find them very fascinating because not a lot of people talk about them. And is it okay if I ask a second question?
Sir?
Yeah? I mean you can see if you look on my clips channel or on if you just type in on YouTube. Jadaur Comma Mormon. We've had multiple debates with Mormons. Mormonism is polytheistic, it's borrowing heavily and its rituals from Freemasonry. It has a lot of Gnostic space opera theology to it. Joseph Smith added eleven verses to Genesis at the end of Genesis to predict himself. So I mean these are like pretty much defeaters for Mormons.
Okay, thank you? Is it fine if I ask a second question?
Then sure?
So I was watching your debate with Trent Horn, and I remember he asked a question about what it is about uniquely about the orthodox God that makes him necessary for the transcendental argument. And you said something about his unique revelatory nature. Could you go further into detail on what that means for me?
Please?
Yeah. I argue that the type of being that God is, with his attributes such as omniscience and omnipresence and the divine mind, is the type of being who could ground such universal, immaterial, invariant abstract categories like mathematics and the laws of logic.
Okay, yeah, thank you, sir.
We have a good day.
Absolutely good questions, sir. Yeah, be sure to look up those Mormon debates because those are pretty funny. But Nanatine Emperor, I remember the last Mormon guy that that I had
a debate with. He said, I remember when when I I could you not this was I've actually heard two Mormons argue this when I brought up the fact that Joseph Smith added these prophecies to predict himself in Genesis fifty when it's talking about Joseph the patriarch, Joseph Smith saw an opportunity to add himself, pigeonhole himself in there, like wedge himself in there, as as if it was
talking about Joseph Smith because it was mentioning Joseph. So he adds eleven verses to Genesis fifty, and then the Mormon guy was talking to He's like, well, the Apostles did this with Jesus. They added all these verses to make the Old Testament about Jesus. I'm not kidding, like that was the actual, Like two Mormons have actually argued this, like the Apostles or con men like Joseph Smith, and they just kind of crafted the New Testament to make
it work with the Old Testament. Like literally that stupid I seen him either. That was so chid.
Did you notice yesterday during the debate that he was like pretending to be Catholic.
Well, I don't know what you mean, because I just went by what he said and then he claimed he had this uh novousorto priest that was supposedly Zionis.
So yeah, I was just curious because like I was like rewatching the debate and then you mentioned the kope he was going through on Twitter. The guy is still today throughout the entire day basically acknowledging that, like he was trolling you and pretending that he's Catholic just because he was this is not made up because he was raised Catholic, so it sounds weird to say anything else.
Yeah, Kristin pointed that out to me a few minutes ago, that like he's he's so basically just admitting that he lied. So weird.
Ill, So I had a funny thing happened with a Mormon that was like the same thing the other day. I was obviously just wasting time on Twitter. But when you bring up the Genesis additions and then point out that there's supposed to be no future revelation, they just get into a like a continuous circular argument on the Mormon point that you just brought up.
Well, no, those are two different points. So the Genesis, the additions to Genesis are fraudulent because there is no eleven extra verses that refer to Joseph Smith. That's fraudulent adding to the scriptures. That's not an argument on the basis of the finality revelation. The finality relation to a separate argument that that cuts out any cult, whether Mormon or Joe's witness that after the death of the Apostles, the faith was once we're all delivered to the Saints.
Thus there can never be any more new revelations that are public divine revelation period. Gotcha, yeah, Mormons, this cuts out jos I mean, what's her name, the founder of the Alan White, the seventy Avenist woman. She claims that she had the gift of prophecy and she has new revelations battle groups. Right, that's all cut out.
Immediately got it because when I was bringing this up to a Mormon, I see where you're saying that they're separate arguments, but they actually try to make it be the same argument in a way I've heard before. Basically, they claim the reinterpretation was essentially what you're saying in Genesis, that there were quote not additions, but they were reinterpretations.
Because there are no attacks prior to the existence of Mormonism that have eleven extra verses about Joseph Smith.
No, exactly, No, I totally agree. But they actually get into this circular thing where they then bring up how one it was a you know, they were real additions, and I'm like, that's not the case. And their argument is essentially for reason that they could have found more additions, even though it has obvious implications on the now.
There where is the basis for more additions to Genesis.
No, there isn't any. My point is if you've ever argued I don't know if you've ever heard like, but more Mormons actually argue this. Then if you point out that there can't be any additions, they say that there is there just is.
Oh I thought you said additions like ed I no, no, and so wait, so they're saying that there can be new additions to Genesis.
Basically there was a reinterpretation.
It wasn't an addition.
And then when you point out that there's like clear implications of the addition that would you know, have impact on the religion that they then claim that it was just poorly interpreted the whole time. And then if you try to get into the argument that it couldn't have been, yeah, exactly, So you can't like literally they just argue in a circle.
But that's the well, see that's the same move that the that the Muslims make to try to defend the coron. So that's why you can't have this circular argument whether you're not more Mormon.
Yeah, I just didn't know if you've you've ever heard that, because you literally can't have an honest conversation with them it's probably not.
I mean I've only had Mormon discussions actually, probably in the last couple of years, so I've not had that much exposure to Mormon base. Actually, Tarzan, what's up? I'm you? Are you there, Tarzan? I'm you. You have to unmute to speak, man, can you hear me? Yeah?
Hey, Jay had a question for you if the Romans, when they destroyed the Temple in seventy a d. All the archives of the tribal genealogies for the Jews was destroyed, so that means that they can't say with any precision any Jew that they are actually have any lineage or anything to do with Abraham.
Well, I mean, there might be questions as to the veracity of their claims, but I don't think that it's true that because the Temple was destroyed, nobody knows if there are any Jews, because all the Church fathers in every century after the first century treat Jews as Jews.
Would would you say that only us Orthodox Christians can say without a doubt, by taking part of the sacraments of the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ, that we can actually say undeniably that we do have a lineage through Jesus Christ, through Abraham without any doubt.
Now we are.
That's what Galatians three is all about. That's what last line is today was about.
Because Protestants can't say that they have like, let's say, a inferiority complex before Jews, but we actually partake in the sacraments, we can actually say we have a direct lineage to Abraham.
Sure exactly, that's what That's the entire thing they're missing, and that's why the historicity of the church, the historical church, is what matters.
One more question, if I may, if in terms of I'm sure, like from your research, after we die, there's a branch of thought. I think a father Seraphim Rose he also believed in the toll houses, and we find that in many of the canons. But there isn't always a consensus on that, something like professor Quiller, I think his name was Alexander the Greek.
The Greeks oftentimes are if you on where they looks.
Up, so there isn't like a consensus. We don't really know.
I think there is a tradition of the toll houses, but I think that it can get kind of weird and insane that people say every statement literally. I don't know that you know, it can turn into some kind of like Orthodox version of purgatory. But I do think there is some some outline of that as part of our tradition, but it might not constitute you know, hard dogma for sure. By the way, Father Deacon, are you there? Yeah? Sorry,
what did you say? I noticed another verse that I think could relate to that topic when we are encountering Mormons or Charismatics. The prediction in Daniel nine, which that guy brought up last night, when it talks about the Messiah being cut off, one of the things it says is that he brings in everlasting righteousness and seals up vision and prophecy. To me, that suggests that the notion of visions and prophecies are something in the in that
you know, prophetic Old Testaments since are sealed up mine. Yeah, yeah, good. Call anybody else. If you're a Charismatic, if you're a Pentecostal, if you're a Mormon, if you're a Muslim, if you're a Hebrew roots for Blacky Burris, or that you're a Catholic papist, dispensationalist, you go to the head of the line. Even atheist. If there's an atheist, if they want to call in hit requests, speak on bringing up to the top. Still got almost foreign to people through sixty five. Maybe
we should call it a night. I don't see anybody Else's your last chance if anybody wants to hop on good news for everybody. I finished Calliwood three today. I stayed up last night. Thank you. Grok finished it today. Grok wrote the entire book. I didn't write a single thing. I just said, Groc write an entire ast caly with three. So I'm taking it easy. Take it easy, Bloomerton's take it. Don't let the sound of your own gone hit the ground. I don't know the words. I'm not an Eagles fan.
I listening to that boom or shit. I only listen to the grateful Dead, like Dirty d and Fish Grayful Dead and Fish is the only band I listened to. Were you were You're the biggest ninety two? Oh? Yeah? Did you ever follow bands? Followed? Yeah?
I followed the Dead Fish.
Are you joking?
I know, I know you were joking, but I'm not dead serious. Get it dead serious.
You've actually been to a dead Yeah?
I went to a dead I went to a dead show and then used to I mean, I was quite a clectic in my music, so I was I.
Was gonna say, I remember a picture of you had a rave. I didn't know you were a deadhead.
Yeah, the Ray for rasta punk, hardcore jam band anything. But let's see, let's go through. Let's use the apathetic approach to definitely not country.
Country and rap.
I guess, yeah, maybe some like kind of cool underground hip hop stuff, old school eighties rap and stuff like that. I like that stuff, but yeah, and uh, what would either be another no go music.
For you?
Uh?
For me, I'm not a huge fan of like anything contemporary adult contemporary radio crap like like mom music like Peter Setera, or like none of that.
How about He's been worship No kl is the Deer Pond.
No, I'm not a huge country fan either, except for some of the old country like Hank Williams Junior.
Fantastic.
Yeah, that kind of stuff is cool. Countries Billy, what's up man? What's on your mind?
How you guys doing?
Hey?
Uh?
Is was this meant to be some sort of religious uh space?
Yeah, it's an open debate on the topics of Christian Zionism, dispensationalism, Evangelicalism, Catholicism, Hebrew Roots Islam, Mormonism, you name it.
Very soon Israel will build a third temple and they're gonna name Trump Messiah. He is the anti Christ, Trump's anti Elon Musk is the false prophet.
Okay, that's what Grox said.
I typed in, Yeah, exactly, make.
A prophecy that Grock is going to be the Antichrist that goes into the and do the abomination of desolation.
Yes, doctor Michael, what's up? Good, I'm you, doctor Michael.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I have a brother.
Who's Hebrew Roots Christian and uh, you know he's he keeps telling me about the whole Bible, and uh he celebrates some of the Jewish holidays and says that you must do this.
And so what.
Would your argument be to refute this, which I think is, you know, this Judaea sized Christianity that's that some of these people are are pursuing.
Right. Well, the first thing is that two epistles were written precisely to combat this this heresy, the Book of Galatians and the Book of Hebrews, first and foremost, and.
Secondly, for get two Theologians.
There was Act fifteen the Jerusalem Council, which settled the issue about what is expected for gentiles who convert to the Church. So all of those things are first and foremost as kind of easy defeaters. But beyond that, we did a whole documentary on Orthodox Shahada. My friend Lewis put together a documentary that's really good called Orthodox Christian Worship and the Old Testament, and it kind of demonstrates that what these people are looking for is actually in
the Orthodox Church. Right, so they want to have, you know, Judaic pentecost services, Well, that's what the church has. We have pasca, we have Pentecosts. That's in the Orthodox Church. Also, it's say, another easy to is the fact that the Jews never considered that any of these things would be
celebrated outside of the land. It's actually impossible to keep many of these ceremonies and celebrations that are mentioned in the Mosaic Law outside of the land of Israel, and Jews never considered that that would be something that the gentiles will be expected to keep, which is funny because they have this idea of, well, the gentiles are supposed to keep the noe at Covenant. Well, that's exactly what Acts fifteen looks to when they decide what's required for
gentiles converting to the Church. So all these issues have been solved in those three things. Fermando, Fernando, what's that?
Hey, what's up?
Jay?
Yes, sir a J.
So I'm a current Protestant trying to figure shit out right now, really trying to figure my way, you know,
on a journey, I guess you can say. Uh kind of started listening to Shamoon and I guess that was like the first domino to drop when I started finding out that, you know, Christian Zionism was erroneous and stuff, and and I thought it was kind of cool that what's his name Andrew Wilson kind of mentioned like that you should find some Christian Zionists debate because that's one of the one of the doctrines.
I think that fell.
That kind of started, you know, helping me kind of work through and sorting out all this stuff. And right now I'm kind of in the in the closet Protestant. My family still really doesn't know. My wife doesn't know.
Uh.
I haven't really figured out a way to break it to them.
And stuff. I had a question about.
So you know that you were saying that a lot of the promises in the nation state of Israel applying now to the Church.
Yeah, Paul says, the sacred there is one that all the promises are yea in Christ, and he means the Covenant promises. So all the covenants literally point to Christ and are consistent and incontinuity with the Final Covenant. With Jeremiah thirty one and thirty three call the New Covenant.
Okay, So then so so now I've heard I've heard that argument that the promises now apply to the church.
And does that that also mean?
I mean Galatian six sixteen says the church is the Israel of.
God, right right, right right, and that that also means the land as well. The dispute as far as the land, does that mean?
Explains that when the Jews took the land and the Old Testament, that's a type of the Church taking the world. The land is the type of the entire world and Romans for Paul applies that to the entire world being taken over by the Church through the Gospel.
So, so would you say it would be so as a Christian, would we not take take sides as far as with like Palestinians or.
The traditional Christian position is that that land has been sanctified by the Church and that's ultimately a Christian place, a Christian pilgrimage site, even back to Byzantium. So that's the classic Christian perspective. And at one time you had a Byzantine you know, Christian government government there. But in terms of the modern situation, it's difficult really to take a side other than that we support the Orthodox Palestinian Christians who are the minority there. But no, we don't
take a side between Rabbinic Judaism and Hamam. John Ross, I'm your hey, Jay, can you hear me? Yes?
Awesome, Hey, I I'm looking for some resources to debunks at papacy and look at papal forges. So I wanted to see if you had any recommendations.
The probably the easiest introduction book that deals with that, at least in a few chapters, is Michael Welton's book Two Paths. I mean, they've been brought up pretty much in every non papal apologetic book since uh like the last few hundred years. So I mean ed Guiney's book Cabalism will mention it as well, But I don't know have a single book I'll tep my hand that just deals with papal forgeries. But I'm sure you could easily find one. But I mean most even orthodox treatments of
church history, like may endorphanm. Papadoccus's book on Medieval Church and the Papacy. I mean it has a whole chapter on the papal forgeries. But I don't have a single bass to like.
If you have access to j store, even academia dot edu and just type in the search engine, you might be able to find some good articles.
You know what. It would be nice, though, to find like a single volume. If I'm sure there is some academic single volume on the papal forgeries, there's got to be one, because there's a bunch of them. There's like thirty or so. Thank you appreciate it. Yeah, anybody else open forum you want a hof on. We got just Dawna here also one of the top trans apologists. Uh, there's not a whole lot of Christian transapologists, but we
do have the premiere one here. If he's able to speak, no, he's not able to speak dirty D wants to speak. What's up, Dirty D?
Hey, man, I'm good to hear you on here.
Bro.
I'm a I'm a member of AME, the AMI denomination.
And I really I really enjoyed.
This is dark. This is dark. Hope you know that, I know, I know, Okay, cool, And I.
Really enjoyed my church and all. This is like full circle that I'm really just thirde of debate last night.
Loved it.
Man, it was hilarious. It was great.
This is all new to me as a Christian, as a believer in Christ. This is just all new to me to hear about the Orthodox Church. I've heard of the Orthodox Church, but I didn't know the information that you have have. So I'm just remaining open minded and enjoying this. And I wanted to hear more about how the Orthodox feels about other denominations. As AMB stands for African Methodist Episcopal it's predominantly all black church.
Yeah, I'm familiar with it. I remember I think I visited one one time back when I was proud of something. But yeah, I would say watch a docum. There's like a documentary on YouTube if you're interested, called The Icon, a seven part documentary it's kind of long, but it's a good introduction to Orthodox Church in a documentary form, so you might want to check something like that out. But I mean, I don't think like the Orthodox Church
doesn't immediately condemn individual people. But we do think that the Orthodox Church is the true church. All right? Who else wants to come up open form chat? You want to come to the top of the line, You want to ask a question, you want to refute Tristen Haggard, which by the way, is easy to do. He is in the chat. He is our resident runner up e deva celebrity. Tonight we have a couple of those. Tonight, we have Father Deacon, doctor Annias, we have little aids Is.
He's sometimes known as he's clapping his hands together, which I think means he's praying for us emoji. He's pray He's doing a prey emoji for us. So we can thank Tristan for praying for us. We know that his prayers will be heard with certitude because it is Tristan. He's not able to speak with us at this moment. He is probably wrapped up in being in a mystical state at the moment, so he probably he's written.
Already got a head start on the lent, and he's taken a ball as silent.
He's already raising a Black Lives Matter fist. So I think he's on our side. He's an ally. We can definitely kind of as an ally. I wish that he could grace us with his voice, but he's not able to anybody else open for him. We can go back to talking about grateful dead songs, we can go back to talking about fish songs. We can go I don't, I don't actually know. You know, there's that what's that one? Here we go, we got we gotta, we gotta fed here Agent zero zero zero, what's up fed?
Hello?
Yes, sir, Hey ja, what's up?
Man? Yes? What's the agency telling you to do tonight?
Oh?
Nothing? I actually just have a quick question. Do you feel like the Israel question is kind of gets blown out of proportion? Like in my in my humble opinion, the transhumanists, you know, like you've all and Klaus are a much bigger threat to us. What do you think of that.
I haven't spent a whole lot of time on evangelical Zionism just because it's kind of a I mean, I was into that stuff when I was like nineteen twenty and then I kind of grew out of it. So it's not as something I've thought a lot about in a long time. But I don't remember what happened the last few days. Oh it's a because we got into the spat with a past prophet and then some other people. So that's why we've talked about the past few days.
It's not sometime I spent a whole lot of time on because it's kind of a pretty low tier issue. I do think that it's a serious issue in America because it dupes so many evangelicals to replace the nation instead of Israel or America with the church because they have no conception of like a historical church. It de facto gets replaced with the Israel as the church, or the Constitution is the new you know. They basically these people worship the Constitution or they treat America as the Church.
Vain It was me, yes, sir, oh.
So first, can do you have any Orthodox author recommendations for like the modern Zionism topic?
Father a spirit On Bailey talks about it and critiques it in his book Uh Kingdom of Satan. I think Kingdom of Satan. It's supposed to be the sequel to the surferm Roses. What you gonna call it? Yeah, I'm going I'm going blank because I've been I've been talking, says Father Bailey. Well the spirit on Bailey's book Satan, and he critiques I mean, it's not just Zionism, it's basically all the globalization institutions. Thanks, and.
So I know you did a young guy's riz stream the other day, but I have to confess to you that I did what you said not to do. And I freaking prese up this girl and gave her tag, and she gave me her phone number.
I even have to ask.
So that does work sometimes if anyone was asking, well, I.
Would say that, Yeah, you have to read the room, right, So like good comedians read the room. They know kind of from a sense of being, you know who they're around, like what's gonna work on, what's not gonna work? So, yeah, there could be some out of the box scenarios where talking about the ology actually could you know, could do good with a girl?
Yeah, to be clear, I didn't like chase after this person. If anyone's having that idea, now, she came to me, so.
It's like you're applying the second effectively. I'm proud of you. So I'm also a dating coach on the side, like I'm basically Will Smith in the movie Hitch. If you've ever seen, that's my Will Smith. Laugh, Jamie's over, They're cracking up. So the one thing I would recommend is to not listen to Tristan because if he starts talking about women, you're pretty much assured of being single. So if you want to be single, you could listen to
Tristan if you want a good dating coach. In the vein of you know, Hitch, it's pretty much like I'm Will Smith and Tristan is like Kevin James and Hitch. That's kind of the parallel I would make if you want to understand you know, Riz, Mojo, etcetera. Who else? And he left. I guess I had too many insults, too much, too much below the belt activities going on with my swipes and jabs. Tristan might be blocking me. Now, I don't know. Let's pray that Tristan doesn't block me,
but he may. Poka Poka hunters poke, Yeah, Hey.
J Dyer, Hey father NaNs. So I'm actually Oriental Christian. Thank y'all for even giving me a chance to come up here and talk. But I'm Oriental Christian. I was wondering if you had any book recommendations for Oriental Orthodox Christians.
Yeah, I think the the it's a little bit of a difficult read, but The Christological Controversy by John mcguckun is probably the most relevant to this because you can't really, I can't really deal with this topic apart from the theology, and it does get pretty tense. I guess you.
Could say, I'm sorry, what was it called again.
Say, Throw of Alexander and The Christological Controversy is probably the best book on that topic by John mcguckan. I'm not recommending anything else from JOm mcguck and he's pretty bad, but that book's good.
Okay, Well, thank you guys, God, great.
Day, you too, Cruise, Sader, Hey, Jake, can you hear me, sir?
I was just wanted a a few questions about what you said a little earlier about how American Protestants are kind of longing for a historical connection, so they kind of like attach it to.
The modern nations.
State of Israel is like it's.
Either America or Israel is their church and like the founding fathers or like their church fathers.
Do you think that's also kind of emblematic of like Protestantism as a whole globally, just because I was just thinking of.
A comparison.
Of how like they used the masoretic texts instead of the septuagen.
I think it's kind of defaults in that direction. Yeah, defaults in that direction because of the reformer's decision to try to get rid of the Dudo canon by default appealing to the matter of Masera etexts. But I think that, uh, the indoctrination into evangelical dispensationalism is something pretty unique to America, but I think that that has spread, you know, through evangelical mission work to places like Africa and Latin South
America and even places like Ukraine. The US was funding not just the schismatic fake Orthodox Church in the Ukraine, they were also funding and promoting a bunch of charismatic groups. So charismatics have been used by the State Department in the CIA as well to push American soft power, and a lot of times that could include with a dispensational ideology. So that's probably one.
Right perfect, And one extra question. So my family is all Christian Zionists, grew up Baptists. Is there like a good maybe avenue of like introducing because every single time I talk about it, it's it's shut down immediately, as in, like you know, Israel is in the Bible, and it's you can't talk about this nation state of Israel and any negative light.
Basically, well, just write down all the passages that I brought up to, like goober last night, I mean, Matthew twenty one, So is the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation producing the frust thereof?
So?
Gotcha?
And is there any is there any good books? Maybe I can like show them about the history too, about how rabbinical Judaism is not the fulfillment of Old Testament Christianity, but Orthodox Christianity is.
Yeah. The documentary that we that I just referenced here by my friend lewis Christian worship in the Old Testament. I'll put it underneath the chat here be the top comment right here.
Perfect.
That will actually that will actually go to proving this point.
Perfect.
Yeah, because that documentary, Yeah, that documentary demonstrates that the temple worship and all of the animal sacrifices and all that really is pointing to the worship in the Orthodox Church. James.
Hello, Hey, Jay, this is James. I'm a first time listener. I'm also a Protestant Evangelical Baptist. I just was wondering, like I grew up with all the Israel talk and end times talk, and I've seen how the world is going with like all the evil that's going on, and you know, the atheists are talking about overpopulation and everything, and they're killing people at an unprecedented rate, and it's
really concerning to see. And I see those arguments for end times, but I just was wanting your clarity on what you see going forward for that because I don't really subscribe to this anymore because it's ridiculous. I've seen all the chaos that causes and people's minds when they go thinking about crazy stuff about the end of the world and they don't plan their own lives anymore. So I'm just looking for maybe advice and things about that.
Thanks, Jay.
Advice about like why or what I've already forgot what the question was. Advice about how to go about proving that this is not true? I mean all the passages that we talked about. So again, the Book of Galatians the Book of Hebrews are written to refute this specific error. They explicitly say that the Church is the israel God.
In Galatians sixteen Matthew twenty one, Jesus says in the Parable Divine Dressers that the kingdom has taken from the Jews and given to a nation producing the fruits thereof which is the largely gentile Church. Doesn't mean the Jews can't be part of the Church. They have to convert, and there have been many famous Jewish converts to Orthodox Christianity.
So that's how we would interpret those passages. Romans eleven, which says that Jews were grafted out of the Covenant because of unbelief, can be grafted back in through a belief in Christ. You see. So, I mean, the New Assessmen is really abundantly clear on a lot of these passages. So really shouldn't even be an issue to debate. Perimeter, Get on me, perimeter. Do you want to talk again?
On mute?
Hey?
Jay, how's it going? Have some questions about lint? So I'm a cate of human and the meat fairy Jessey obviously, and so I stopped eating meat starting today, and I just want to know what kind of stuff you eat. I'm getting conflicting, various different informations.
I'm not trying to be mean man, but like, as I point out, like we don't do diet canonical issues on the open form de Bay streams. So I would say take that up with your priests, as I always do my heros. Yes, sir, Yeah.
I was talking to a product and friend of mine. He's very well versed, well educated in a lifer, and I had him kind of listening. He was curious about the experience that I'm undergoing in learning about Orthodoxy and becoming as a catechumen. I was talking about church tradition and kind of brought up your argument of where does he get the Bible from? And his sticking point was that one way or another God would have provided him
and everyone with the proper books to learn from. I didn't really know how to kind of continue from there, which seems to be very stubborn.
Assertion, But that's just an assertion that doesn't answer the question, which is, well, how do you know that you have the proper books that God wants you to learn from. For example, if the doodle canon is part of scripture, then praying for the dead is a good thing. If the doodle canon is not part of scripture, then, as Luther said, there's no reason to pray for the dead. So that extent of the cannon will affect what we
do in practice. So your friend can say all day long that, well, God's going to give me the means, but it's like, well, how do you know the words of our churches and the means? Right, that's the thing in question. So you can't let people just assert things. You always have to say, okay, right, so and where do you where are you getting that from? What's what's the basis to believe that that's the case? Hang your head?
Hey jay, yes sir, Hey, well I'll say I just spoke with Tristan and he said he was sorry he couldn't come on and talk. He's rearranging his crystals and anticipation, anticipation of the changing season. So maybe maybe when spring rolls around from.
Yeah, I know, he follows like the solstice or something, so yeah, yeah, I'm not into the wicker stuff. He can he can explain that if you can.
I have the Copplestone about the Coppleston Frederick Coppleston thirteen volume mass of set of the history of what Stern Philosophy, and I was wondering, I'm kind of getting bogged down in it. I was wondering, if you knew or recommended a single volume overview that that you know of that maybe I could read first.
I think this is actually a classic problem in the history of philosophical discourse. I've only ever heard philosopher men complaining that there's not a single history of philosophy that's any good. A lot of people criticize the Will Durrant one, a lot of people criticize Persian Russells. Maybe Father Deacon could point to one that he thinks is good.
I mean Copplison's good Will Durrant's note.
But he's but he's ayes for a single volume and not a fourteen volume.
Yeah. I planned to work my way through it. I like everybody else, I've got a shelf full of books I want to read.
And I started.
I started in the first volume, and I got about halfway through, and I just got down on it, and I just thought, maybe if I had maybe if I could read a single volume.
Maybe world around then that might be. It's just it's really how would you describe it, ja like a pop It's like a pop book.
Like I said, all I've ever heard is philosophy professors complaining that there.
Isn't one There really isn't. I mean, And that's the problem is that if you're going to get if you're gonna get like that's a massive corpus and work things to cover in order to do it any justice whatsoever, you're gonna need a fourteen volume set. Well, otherwise it's just gonna be just kind of a pop you know.
Just how far up does your philosophy course cover?
I did pre Socratics up to Nietzschean postmodernism.
Okay, I would probably be that would probably be a better format for me, really, So maybe I'll check that out.
Yeah, I mean I tried to, you know, I tried to engineer it to be like the best you know, single course introduction. And Father Deacon makes an appearance in that, by the.
Way, I'm wonderful.
All right, cool, Well, thanks a lot, I appreciate it.
Yes, Father Deacon is there for the epistemology class.
I think maybe I should make a history of Philosophy book.
Yeah, well, I.
Wanted to do the color in your Own Adventure Philosophy book.
Yeah, I think, I think. I think Tristan's working on an introduction to Wickup book right now, so he could probably give you some pointers on how to go about it. Tristan, how come you don't want to speak? Are you just too good for us? Or I'm confused? He's giving us the style treatment, so he's like, a, I mean this, crystals need to be he's ghosting, Yeah, exactly.
I just wanted to have a bit of a more of a throwaway question about Christian Zionism, which is just like I don't I don't really see what it is about it that is so convincing to these like certain you know, like evangelical boomer demographics. Uh, and not just like convincing, but they're kind of like what is it? They're very like zealous and intense about it, and I don't really understand why what is it about that position that causes people to act that way?
And again I think that because there's not a historical connection, they don't see, you know, the church that they're a part of really grounded in anything other than this appeal to uh, you know, the nation state of Israel throughout the Bible, and so that for them is it's sort of a default church history for them.
And you have to keep in mind to the the geopolitical influence in the manufacturing of consent among in terms of politics of the American people.
That.
The Schofield Bible, how that was disseminating the seminaries and funding exactly like all of that is because I was just the reason why I'm thinking about that is it just did this week last week all my classes on basically no Chompsky's manufacturing consent basically an institutional analysis of propaganda and how that works through and so my mind is just immediately thinking about that. That's that, well, that's
really easy. I mean obviously, especially with boomers and stuff like that, to con you know, through a propaganda model, had to actually manufacture them. So because all of that, it's not even biological, it's all about its politics.
Well, in about this domain, I'm pretty sure it was through the apture of the the Seats of Theology at Dallas Theological Seminary. So that's been the hub of dispensationalism in the Baptist Church for decades and decades and decades.
And notice the Baptist is the largest group of Christians in the United States, I believe, remember correctly, So you would want to if you're an institution trying to kind of manufacturing consent to support the state of Israel and various you know, political things. Isn't that the exact group that you wouldn want to infiltrate, right?
Yeah, I didn't even think about the geopolitical part of it.
Anyways, Thank you, guys, have a good night.
Yeah, that's a huge part. In fact, that's what we've been talking about for the last few days. Greg, did you want to come back and say something.
Yeah, So at the beginning of the stream I asked above about grounding I remember, right, Yeah, So you say God grounds the law of identity, logic, that sort of thing. So you probably you may have answered this already, or you may think it's a real question, But what do you mean by God?
What is God? Exactly? I mean, specifically the orthodogic ch Christian conception of the trine God with all of his attributes, particularly the personhood of God and the omnies. As an example would be the means metaphysically speaking, by which those categories would be grounded.
Could you repeat those words again, personhood?
Yes, In other words, God is personal and not impersonal, meaning that there's intentionality and purpose to his actions and his creation. It's not meaningless, it's not disteleological, it's purposive, and that's connected to God being personal. And then the other attributes like being omniscient and omnipresent, would would relate to how something like a law of identity could be universal, immaterial, invariant, and apply at all times because it's grounded in the mind of God.
So you call this the Orthodox conception of God?
Correct?
Okay, I'd be able to find a definition of this somewhere if I if I wanted to.
Well, I'm just saying the Orthodox trinity, like the Orthodox doctrin that not the Roman Catholic doctrine of the trinity, but rather the Orthodox monarchical trinitarian view. Okay, a lot of a lot of words being precise. The reason I'm using those terms is to be precise.
Right, I did ask you to be precise Orthodox monarch cheo trinity. Yes, okay, Okay, I'll look into these things. Thank you for your time, Jay, Sure, Jose.
Here it was.
So the regarding the previous question of why people or evangelicals are persuaded but Sianism, I can provide some insight at least on what I what I saw growing up in evangelical who you know, believe in all this Scianism.
So something interesting kind of related to prosperity Gospel kind of like Joe Osteine where you kind of it's kind of like transactional Christianity where everything you do is for like your own you know, uh profit, like even financial profit or well being, Like, oh, I worship God so he can bless me with with money and stuff, which is pretty huge in evangelical Christianity. So something I heard.
That a good point. There is a connection between the prosperity gospel and a lot of this dispensational stuff. Yeah.
Yeah, something I heard growing up very adamantly was we pray for Israel and we send money to Israel so we can be benefited monetarily.
And because they think they don't understand the Church, they're missing the entire history of Christianity as the church, which is the Israel.
I just realized when you're saying that it's literary. It's literally belief in magic. If I do this certain thing, I'll get this. And how crazy is that?
I don't think, Well, that's the thing, that's the Yeah, that's the word of faith, you know. Kenneth Cope and BENI had.
It's total occultic magic. Yeah wow.
Yeah.
And their basis for this that I heard, they argue from some texts on the eutronomy and I think Malacai as well, when they say, oh uh, those nations who bless you Israel will be blessed, and those who curse you Israel will be cursed as well. So they say, oh, therefore we must send money to Israel so we could be blessed, which is like a very we.
They're missing the fact that Israel is a type of the Church. So type moves to fulfillment. The type doesn't continue on for forever when the fulfillment comes common sense. Hello, Jake, Yes, sir?
All right, Jay, how you doing great?
Talking with you? I'll like keep it short.
I wanted to jump on, but I was driving, so was I just wanted to say it was I met you last year when you were in LA and wanted to say that was a great evening. I'd encourage anyone who is interested in all the other topics you cover to to check that out. Are you planning on coming back to southern California this year or next door?
I mean imagine that sometime we'll come back. I don't know specifically.
When, though, that was That was a great night. So thank you real quick. Just what the last person was saying is so true. That being uh, you know, Christian evangelical circles the Boomer generation, my parents and myself even till you know, a few years ago. It's literally, you know what we're taught, people follow it blindly. It's like a spell that's on all these people.
Yeah, I was, I was trought the same stuff as a as an evangelical group.
And they don't really know any better. My mom, the first time I brought it up and started talking to her about it, you know, she started crying as if I was, you know, going to hell for it. And now after you know, showing her, I don't know if you pruit like the movie or not, but it works on a lot of Christians as marching design. I show it to a lot of Christians and it's you know, I don't agree with everything about all the pastors in it, but it goes point by point and for Protestants and
Evangelicals it's a good thing. I mean, my parents now left a church over that because they were bringing it up so much in Bible studies, and my mom and Daubt were speaking out against it. Now after just you know, two years, so there's a way to wake up.
And I've not actually watched this. You said it's a documentary called Marching Design. Yeah, I'll have to check that. I'm guessing it's a critique of evangelical Zionism.
Correct, it's it's on YouTube or you.
I mean, I have it on my page too. You can look at it there.
I've replied to Greg Locke and all the craziness he's been saying the last few days, so you can find it on there.
Because yeah, well all of these people are paid.
So yeah, I mean, could I ask you and the father. I'm in southern California.
I've looked up.
I'm Protestant missionary kid growing up, but listening to you and what not, very interested and I think that you know, been being led to dig deeper into Orthodoxy. And I've looked up online and there's you know, Russian Orthodox and all these different in the area. Do you have one that you'd recommend in southern California, like Orange County, South Orange County area.
That's where I moved from. I lived there about four years ago. Okay, So especially where you're coming from, i'd recommend, like your background, I'd recommend Saint Barnabas and Coast Basic California. Okay, if that's not too far. I'm trying to think South County. It's just right off the four or five and by, yeah, right right by it's Harbor in the four or five. Basically, let's St. Barnabas. Yeah, because that church was formed out of kind of like Evangelicals, and it's Orthodox, but you
feel familiar, you know what I mean. It's from me. It's not as jarring as right.
Well, my background is French, so I mean I've had Catholic in my background, so I mean, and I enjoy the you.
Know, Okay, I mean so good. I'm trying to think too, as far as South.
I'm not for this, you know, the I'm trying to get away from that.
Okay. Well, I mean, I'm just saying if you came from that, but I could pick it out.
If you recommend it, I'll go check it out.
That's where I was baptized. But I served in a really ethnic parish. Uh all Romanian parish and Anaheim. But I'm trying to think South County. There's a Serbian parish down there. There's a good parish. There's a Serbian parish and a Russian parish in uh. And what's the Irvine and then what's the lake Forest? So that closer to.
You, Okay, so Saint Barnabas and then the other one is the coast to Mesa.
And then Father Blosco's parish. I'm trying to remember it's like Holy Protection or something like that. I can't remember. It's a Serbian parish, it's in Irvine.
Yeah, that's you said, it's father what's his name?
I'm sorry, Bloso, let me the parish name is real quick. These are people that I know really well and that like I can recommend, like as far as the priests, uh, let's see.
I have I have a lot of questions.
I'm still working through things, so I just want somewhere that's kind of open to you know, let's see.
And then there's a Russian Orthodox Church in uh in Lake Forest. St. Barbara's my godfather goes there, so you need to, you know, get connected. He to help you out, all right.
So say.
Thanks for coming on, appreciate that journey. Go ahead, Prime minister, Prime Minister, I'm you.
Hey, how you guys doing.
What's up?
I don't know if this is the right place to bring this up, but I'm a Protestant, kind of grew up my whole life Protestant. My father's a pastor, and uh, I've just felt really kind of like confused about the whole Protestant reform. And I really feel that God has called me to the to the Orthodoxy in a way.
And I I just.
Joined the space maybe like five minutes ago, but I saw that you guys were talking about Orthodoxy, and you guys have a father, and here I was wondering if I can maybe ask a couple of questions in regards to Orthodoxy.
Sure.
So I've been attending an Orthodox church for a little while now, and I know that God is calling me there, but I'm just a little confused on the tradition and how things work, and uh, just the different denominations within orthodox You're a little confusing mainly, I understand that Christ came for everybody, but the Eucharist and purgatory are just very like confusing topics. So I don't know if you have.
Orthodox Church doesn't teach purgatory, but we believe in the real presence of Christ and the Eucharist. So I would say, if you want a good Orthodox book to read to get an introduction to those topics as you're attending, check out the book Orthodox Dogmatic Theology from Palmazansky. Palmazansky is what you want to look at. What's up? I'm mute, beam, you're gonna immune? Are you there?
Oh?
Hello?
Hear me? Yeah?
I was gonna ask you what would you response be to the youth frow dilemma? Because I was having a discussion with the classman. I guess he was trying to bring up that point. My response was that he's I guess, creating this false dichotomy, like where you can't separate goodness from God.
Yeah. I mean it's based on an assumption of Hellenic metaphysics too, that the good is the one that you can't have distinctions, you know, the essenceentery distinction would be something that our metaphysics posits that's different from Greek metaphysics.
Fernando Fernando, hey Man, sorry about that, Jay, I was just wanting to kind of see it, just emphasize, like how how important for for me it was when.
When the whole doctrine of.
Christian Zionism fell for me like it was, it was freaking, like mind blowing. I tried to tell my wife about it, and she was like, why is that such a big deal. She didn't really see like how explosive it was. But I know you mentioned it, like how it's like low tier.
But man, I was wanting to kind of I think the I think the connection with with with Protestants is like the connection with end Time's prophecy and like the Jews, uh connection with that because I know our pastor would our pastor would say like that whenever he would talk about revelation and antimes prophecy, like our our attendants would like skyrocket.
Yeah, everybody's obsessed with that stuff because it's it's sensationalist and it's, oh, you know, dragons flying around in heaven. I remember the seventy Avenue Church here in my town. They used to put out these prophecy flyers for their conferences, and one of the flyers actually had like they actually thought there would be dragons flying around in space in the times.
I just kind of idea you should do, you know how, you just sports fool take. You should do like.
A procy dragons. Yeah, that would be funny, like like the book Revelations as a comic book like Avengers or something where you know, Robert Downey Junr. Is going to fight like dragons coming out of portal helicopter dragons. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean that's why preterism is a sho a valuable force to destroy all this nonsense, because if preterism is true,
all this evangelical nonsense goes out the window. Because those prophecies in Luke twenty one Matthew twenty four book Revelation are in the historical grammatical historical reference referring to the destruction of the Temple in seventy eight D. Plus they're powerful proofs of the validity of the New Testament, which these idiot evangelicals destroy one of their biggest proofs that the Gospels are legitimate, because they're predicting what happened in
seventy eight D. And all these goobers push all that to the end of the world. Roger, Hey, Jake, can you hear me?
Yes, sir? Cool.
Yeah, So I was just wondering, since your Christian hitch, you know, what would be your most orthodox pick up line and then have a follow up question.
I wouldn't make orthodoxy part of a pickup one. That was kind of what I argued to my video.
Oh fair enough, Yeah, okay, I guess I won't ask you if it hurt when you fell from heaven then anyway.
I guess that that sounds like a definitely like a Protestant evangelical pickup one for sure.
Fair enough.
Yeah. I really enjoyed your debate yesterday with Misfit. It was kind of crazy watching him talk it like, I don't know, I guess he thinks that like Catholicism is some sort of ethnicity. He was making this claim that like, since his parents were Catholic, that he much more enjoyed his non denomn church over Catholicism. He even called like the Catholic Church embarrassing.
So it's kind of christ And Tristan told me that today I quit following that guy as soon as I booted him from the room, but Tristan said today that he was like admitting, oh, yeah, I don't really care about Catholicism. I just said I was Catholic, but I'm not. So basically it was lying, uh yeah. Yeah.
He crashed out pretty pretty bad today on X was kind of kind of embarrassing to watch.
But he also lied about his notes, remember.
The he broke his vowel silence there. He also lied about his notes.
He claimed that he had notes that he goes, oh, yeah, I got some notes that I took, and then he starts reading some sort of chat GPT generated slop and he thinks he's actually reading scripture, but he's quoting summaries of evangelical terrible exegesis of Daniels, and then he goes and then Jay calls him out. Jay calls him out, and then he goes, oh, well, actually I think you misunderstood.
This is someone else's notes named Grock.
Oh I thought the Bible, but it was really the Necronomicicon. Sorry, he was reading.
Thinks pretty sure that he I'm pretty sure he claimed that he was he was directly quoting it, and Jay kind of interrupted him to point out, like, no, this is not these are not quotes, and he kept going, He's like.
No, this is just this is the scriptures.
That's what the AI and Saints stands for.
Yes, you're correct, AI and Saints stands for for that. Now people have been saying, I don't know anything about this dude, but apparently all the there's a bunch of background lore to this guy that I had no idea. He had like an actual fist fight with Bryson.
If you say that, they basically.
They basically fall over in the gravel and just kind of like roll over on each other and then Bryson punches him. Watching that guy nuts and then Bryson called the fight. Bryce is like.
He he got up and ran away.
Oh, I mean that was crazy, but well, I mean they're both just clowns. I mean it's like two peas in a pod there between then two Savio.
I was watching your YouTube channel the other day and I saw that you were having discussions or you had a debate, which your naturalist atheist professor. My question is like, do you have any of your debates like prior to you being on YouTube recorded.
No, man, there would have been no reason to record a debate back in two thousand and five. Okay, my bad, Sorry, I mean it would have been interesting, but I basically just argued this basic presup. He was an atheist materialist professor. He was my philosophy science professor. Forget his name, but sincere hypocrite, Yes, sir.
Your debates against atheists, and I've noticed a lot of them come with like Protestant priests oppositions like solid scripture.
That's a good insight actually, that most atheists are reacting to weird Protestant theology sture.
Yes, sir, I was just wondering why do the atheists do that a lot? Like is it just because a lot of asists come from Protestants?
Or yeah, I would say, so, okay, just another question.
So in mark Mark seven, I think where Jesus heals the death Man, Jesus says to like, not tell anyone, but they do tell others that Jesus healed them. So is this disobedience like a good thing or a bad thing?
Well, I guess if he disobeyed, it wouldn't be a good.
Thing, right, But there's many verses like that where Jesus heals and he explicitly says don't tell anyone, But yet they'll tell people. So why is that something that happens often?
I think that he just had an intention for certain things being kept secret until the work of redemption had been complete. And that's why he says, I have many things to say to you, Like to the apostles, he says, I have many things to say to you, but you cannot yet bear them. But you know, he says, like when the Holy Spirit comes, then you'll be able to deal with it. You'll be able to remember what I taught you. So I would assume that it's in anticipation of Pentecost.
Okay, that makes sense, thank you.
Yeah, that is actually a good question. What's hey, Jake?
Can you hear me?
Yes, sir, hey man, just a quick question.
I'm sure you've talked about this a million times, and I've just started getting into Christianity and philosophy and all of that.
But I have some you know.
Non denominational and Protestant.
Friends and stuff like that, and all of them focus on you know, they're kind of just hyper individualists, I guess where you know, they just only want to focus on the you know, quote unquote relationship with.
God and that's all important and all that. But how do you kind of approach it from the Orthodox perspective?
Well, I mean, in the New Testament, we're taught in any places, like in Ephesians, that were members of a of a corporate body, of an institution, one Lord, one faith, one body, one baptism. So there's no such thing as this, you know, individualized situation. It doesn't really exist. I'm not saying that that means they're in bad faith, but they're excluding all of these other aspects of the New Testament that say that we do have to be involved in,
say the corporate worship of the church. Right, So Paul says not to forsake the assembling together, you know, and when you read all these epistles, it's pretty clear that Paul expects that you're going to be going to and attending the divine liturgy. So, for example, the things that we're that we're told to do is to eat his blood and drink excuse me, eat his flesh and drink
his blood to abide him in John six. Right, And so how are you doing that on your own if you're not attending the divine liturgy?
Absolutely perfect, Thanks so much, Jack.
Yeah, And if you look at you know, Hebrews eleven. If you look at Revelation, you know five or nine. The liturgical worship of the Church is the liturgical worship ship in heaven, and it's a corporate, collective, universal thing.
Piccolo here, can you hear me? Yes, I had a I had a quick question. So I'm a I'm a catech human, but I recently had this thought and it's it's about Catholicism. So okay, So when it so you you would agree in that the the main reason we have icons is too to pick the incarnation of Christ, right.
Well, that's the root of iconography. But I mean the icons also picture the other saints and their windows into heaven.
Okay, because because I know I believe it was the sixth Ecumenical Council where they where It's where they pretty much said you can't depict the Father, right it's.
The seventh seventh, Yeah, I think, But I think Trollo might mention it too. So I think Trello and the Southern the Council mention it explicitly, and then it's reaffirmed in other places. But yeah, we're not supposed to engage. The exception to that is like the ancient of days. But beyond that, no, we don't depict the hypostasis of the Father.
Yeah, yeah, I know, I know in the I want to say, it's in the ro Corps building in New York. They have they have an icon of the Father, but it's uncanonical. But but that that, that's besides the.
Point it has. Yeah, this so this is not always strictly adhered to. I would argue it ought to be. But like it's not gonna it's not like oh the well the church is, you know, doesn't count anymore. They they're they're canceled. I mean, people don't always follow the counts, and a lot of people don't don't do it knowingly either.
Okay, Yeah, the point, the point that I was trying to make.
Was also, by the way, hold on one point, there is that there are exceptions to that, one of them being the Ancient of days. So and I don't know which are you talking about the one in San Francisco where Saint John's relics are? Oh?
No, I was, I was, I was refered.
I mean, I mean, excuse me out, no, wait, where's uh, where's Saint John's relic that's San Francisco.
Right, I'm I'm actually not sure. I was referring to the one in uh in New York.
Oh, I'm sorry. I was thinking, l Ah, we've been to the Rock Cork Cathedral in West Coast l A. Or where I'm all mixed up. I can't you remember. Oh, but I didn't think that there was an image of the Father there. But there could be, and I'm just not aware of it. So you're talking about ro Corp Cathedral in New York. What's it called?
Uh, I'm I'm the name. The name escapes me at the moment. I just I just remember, I just remember seeing it.
Uh is it the ancient of days or you don't know.
I'm not entirely sure, but uh.
Well, that is that that is an acceptable image of the Father. If it's the ancient days, that is what I'm saying. So, yeah, that's the one exception.
Yeah, I guess.
Yeah.
The point that I was trying to make was if if the if the Catholics to pict the Father in the in their iconography, aren't they in a way saying that that, uh, that the Father was incarnate.
That's exactly the argument of the Moscow iconsent not correct. Okay.
And then and then uh one. One more question.
So, by the way, it is uh St. It's Holy Virgin Cathedral in San Francisco is what I was thinking of, where we visited several years ago. Okay, Holy Vision Cathedral.
Okay, that's good to have. Other question, so, do you have any good book recommendations on like deconstructing Calvinism.
Yeah. I think if you read uh St, cir Ol and Alexander their Christological controversy, that will deconstruct Calvinism because Christology really undoes it.
Christopher, Hello, hey, Jay, what's up? I was actually on earlier and I thought you were going to get off. That was like maybe an hour and a half or two of those. I'm glad you're still on.
Well, I was every time I'm about to quit, then people pile in.
So okay, well, I wanted to just share a quick horror story about Christian Zionism.
If that's okay.
Okay.
So in my last church that I was in, it was a charismatic church and we had a speaker com who was a quote unquote prophet, and he came and just started preaching and was letting everybody know about U over seventh and how Israel was just conducting.
All of the air you're cutting out.
I can't hear I'm sorry, can you hear me out?
Yes? Yes, go ahead, me out Okay.
So the prophet was saying to everybody that while Israel was conducting its uh I guess raids or air raids or the bombing stuff. Uh, this guy said that it doesn't matter if you agree with it or if you think.
It's right or whatever you think.
If it's if you think it's wrong or anything, you have to agree with Net and Yahoo. You have to pray for Net and Yahoo and for their success. And then also during the offering time.
This is crazy. So basically now the new pope is not not Yah. So we have an infallible pope of the churche. It's Pope BB.
I mean.
I was uh.
I was sitting in there like like on, I was like looking around, and I mean people were just.
Like hey man, hallelujah.
And another thing too though, when the uh when the offering time came, you know, sometimes they'll have like flag flag people that wave flags and stuff like that. They had uh Israeli flags. They were waving Israeli flags like higher than anything else in the in the church, and I just to me, that was such a clear depiction of like the deception and how how how deep it runs.
It's I don't know what your problem is. Clearly the New Testament says that Yahoo is the head of the church. Simple gospel, Simple gospel. Have to unmute simple gospel. Do you want to talk? You have to unmute Anglo?
Oh hi?
Yes?
Uh So how's your day good?
What's something?
So?
I just wanted to I just wanted to bring in a question right quick. And it's a question about the philiok way. So I wanted to propose to you this question right quick.
So where do you think that the Eastern Orthodox view of an issue like the philiog way might be?
Intellect like we like like we flawed in this sense that like if you if like if if the Holy Spirit only comes from the Father, would that relegate the son to some type of lesser divine of forty Because we know that through the Trinity, the Holy Spirit is like is of God and stuff.
So we're talking about the three persons sharing the same divine essence. How does the Holy Spirit not come from the son unless the son has some type of lesser like divine of forty and so in that sense, I don't know.
So this argument is hinging on the idea that to lack a hypostatic property would necessitate ontological uh diminished status. But that would mean that the Holy Spirit has a ontologically diminished status because he doesn't produce a person. So if the argument is that the son must produce a person to have equality with the Father, is to confuse hypostatic properties with natural attributes. So any natural common attribute
is what all three share. Any hypostatic property is unique to that single soul hypostasis because it's what picks that hypostasis out. So Bezil says, for example, the Father alone is cause in the trinity. That's why the son cannot take on cause, because that would make it a father son duality with a diminished status Holy Spirit who does not produce a person.
Oh oh okay, yeah, I think that's all I really have to say.
Have a good one, thank you, And you know, check out the cappaditions on that, because they're pretty consistent that the Father does not in any way share his role as cause or arcade or films grant hello, hear me, yes, sir, hey uh.
One of the one of the main things that I've struggled with coming from Catholicism is the concept of economia, you know, with the legalistic presuppositions and stuff of the West. And I was wondering if you have any like book recommendations or anything on that.
I don't know about a book on it. Well, like if you watch like if you watch Ubi Patriss's documentaries, he gives a lot of good examples as to why there's you know, reason for flexibility in the canons.
Okay, do you know about is are there any like examples from the Church Fathers that I could read, like like from you know.
Because because in Ubi's documentaries he cites a lot of canonical like on the if you watching the Divorce Remarriage documentary, he did, Okay, lot of a lot of that deals with Patristic quotations. Okay, that's that's all I really had, thanks man. Yeah, that's a good question. Also, the Canons of Saint Basil are pretty obviously like not the modern Roman Catholic position, yet Rome accepted the Canons of Basil from many centuries. Okay, last couple questions here, I'm getting kind of worn out.
Oh here we are, can you hear me, yes, sir, Hey you mentioned DTS earlier when that guy was talking about the air that a lot of evangelicals make specifically with Israel, when they're talking about those who bless Israel. We bless those who curse Israel will be cursed. And that comes from something that was I heard ad nauseum from my preaching professors and throw in.
Something really quick the refuse that very easily. If you read Revelation two and three, when Jesus talks to the seven churches of Asia minors through through John right when John writes those letters, you'll notice the blessings and cursings model is applied to the church, and that means that the church that is the inheritor of the blessings and the cursings covenant, the old right no longer the type.
The interesting thing about it was so I lived on the campus of DTS for a while, and I wasn't a student there. I was a student at another school that shared married housing. But I got to be a part of all the little seminars and stuff that was going on, and in the side the campus was kind of split in the professors where they were there was like the old guard who were you know, old school dispensationless.
And then there were the other guys who were trying to publish papers at SBL and stuff and kind of were secret kind of progressives that they had to.
Be quiet about.
And all of my friends who we were trying to get papers published at SBL too, we liked those guys, and they kind of poo pooed that interpretation of kind of the classic evangelic way of thinking about Israel, the way they do for a different way to interpret things like that's not what the Jews who wrote it thought, And it all comes back to like, well, the meaning of the text is in what the meaning the jew
who wrote it thought it meant. And so the classic, the classic like example that I was taught was in the beginning of Genesis, that's not the Trinity because they would have no concept of the Trinity, and therefore that's a later delp.
That's exactly that's exactly where it would lead into like you know, humanitarian horn type and nonsense.
Yeah, and it's funny because it's kind of the same words just mean what they say and say what they mean, and.
The academic that's why they don't believe in typology.
Yeah, the academic type still rely on that, but they think that they're above it by saying, well, that's not what I know what the Jew actually thought?
Who wrote this?
Because I've read bah blah blah.
I was just they're committing the very mistake that Paul talks about when he says that they follow the letter and not the spirit.
Interesting, all right, thanks, yeah, uh, last comment and we'll close it up.
Jose get on mute because that you want to talk good on mute. All right, Well, I don't see anybody else. Thank you, guys, a lot of fun tonight.
It was fun man. Thanks having on us.
Thank you for hopping on and helping out tonight. I'll go out a goodnight