Pt 1: HEATED FERAL PROTESTANT DEBATES! 6 HOURS!!!! WHOA

Ah, I got married to a fuck pop whoa, we got ready, come joint in the subway shop for.

I'm married to uncle Pap.

Whoa by imaging man Rosie.

Come to me through to hoo like the stick patch on the duke.

Whoa, whoa open.

Ready joint to see the subway shop over. We got ready for the s sway shop for.

M h.

Oh, I'm married to a phone.

Go pop.

We got ready.

We got joined in a subway shop. Right, there's a man no roads. They come to me through the two night I missen man rods. They come to me through this Heatoo bunco.

Phone.

Whoa bunk.

Bunk?

Oh, whoa, I got married. I got married to my phone, Go papo.

We got ready.

We got joined in a subway shop.

Will go phone call love, phone call love, I.

May be to my phone. Do we got wedded, Come join in a subway shop.

Oh who, I'm lippy.

Married to a funk.

Go bo.

We got joined according to the subway shop Boo.

A minute and biscuits.

Some minerals to come and be do it to the holy man watching on the two.

Whoa, oh, I'm mab me too my phono.

We got readed we got joined in the subway shopping boy, the mats and minerals.

I come to middle of it too, the man in minerals. They're coming into this year too.

Whoo ohone, I got married.

I got married to.

My funk go Bob.

We got wedded. We got joined in the subway shop.

Until the monkey you find off in that tree?

What you doing up there?

Why you stand?

Why you run it from the red bad you ran from then trew and from me.

Until the monkeys like their female monkeys with them Bananna's between the trees hanging down upside down.

That's a smile.

Side And tell the monkey.

What you doing to me?

Till until a monkey, till the.

Mackyn till the mody.

What's it doing it to me?

Till a tiller?

Mom Moday.

Till mom fucking Jamie? Could you make me?

I express?

So okay, we're gonna open it up.

Let's keep it.

One plus one plus one equal three.

Icons are Adala tree, j J but Jay can I talk?

But it wasn't.

Next, Cathodra, God is real wife? Does he allow evil?

Why do you pray to dead people? Traditions of men? It's a no brainer.

You're such a tyrannical rainer.

Is this your first time on the web changer, Joe?

Can't take these loads your slow boys?

Is this your first time on the shame changer?

Joe?

Was that a creator foot part?

M dude?

Stop repeating my name?

Dude?

You goober's callin or I'll boot you.

Where did we get the Bible from? Have you read the Canons of Franzia?

What are you Catholic?

Are you promisonans?

I'm not trying to be me, but do you have an actual argument?

There is only one church?

You are in a cult, You're.

A goblin, a demon, a boomer?

Quick question?

Do we have any diddyback venerators in the chat?

Is this your first time on.

Chan't take these loads here? Slow boys? Are you?

Is this your first time on bean where?

If you're a wine in front.

Of the line, I'm mute, dude, what.

Is yours stemic justification?

That argument is circular and you are refuted?

Is this your first.

Time on the wereh?

I needed you? Oh? What better song to kick it off with when debating Protestants than nineteen ninety three electronic and dance music straight from the dance hall Twitter. I want to see you up.

There's only one thing they can bring them a together that begins with you.

But where it begins with you, not you. I'm gonna tell you what word is Usury.

On the dance floor.

Baker. Shut that app up, fakery on the part of flour baker.

Make the people super poor or rep middle class bakers.

Shake that ass all right, welcome everybody.

I wanted to play that song last time, but I didn't get to it. I got coffee in my mouth. I make my coffee so strong that the coffee grounds are drowning in it, being like, get me out of here. This coffee is too strong. I'm a coffee ground and it's too strong. Shout out to my girls, the Dark Triad right there. Jamie bought me a Golden Girl's cup. I don't know why. I just she just thought it

Want to work.

The Protestants got all feisty this week. The Calvinists got all feisty on Twitter. They were just they were just sasty. They got a little bit of a sass in their walk this week, more than normal. And there's several things going on in the evangelical Protestant world. One of those things is the idea of recovering lost masculinity. Lost masculinity, How do we get more masculine? Bro, We got to compete with the Muslims, supposedly, and they're having kids and

WHOA.

Now I made a joke and my joke was intended to prod and goad them a bit to get somebody to come to debate. But I should have realized that it's the same with the Roman Catholics. If you make a joke like this and you try to prod them, they turn that into a piety signaling thing to where you're not worth talking to because you made this joke.

Christ like he is. This man is on christ Like. He's not like John MacArthur. John MacArthur calls up people who like Trump and say cush words. Trump said the P word, and we're not holy, we are holier than vowel. Now, I said, these are a bunch of pasty tubby I pa men referring back to my ip A video a year or six months ago, and I stand my mamat desist.

Now.

I don't know or in McIntyre people say, oh, he's a cool dude from Glenn Beeck's show. That's entirely possible. It's entirely possible. All of these dudes are cool dudes. I don't even know who they are. I did recognize later on that, oh that's Calvin Robinson without an afro, so I didn't even realize that was him. I just thought that was like a like an arcle, like a nerdy black dude up in there, just being an earth.

A theological article Laura.

Toment something like that. But I'm just kidding. Oh, he went too far with that one. He went too far with that one.

Bro.

Now again, Now this dude on the end over here, he looks like he was cut from the village people with that big old mustache and weird tubby. Look. The next dude we had multiple dms. I thought he was gonna come to bait multiple times. I will take you up all that, sir. The next guy over trying to have an orthodox beard, but the high top fade. I don't know if y' all know that's out of style like five years ago. But what can we expect from Calvinists.

Look at the way this man speaks. Look at the way this man speaks. He does not have the spirit of Christ. There's no way he could speak in such ways. Worry you ain't true regenerate born again Christian, but speaking in such ways proves he's not Christian? Or were you predestined to have man boobs? Were you predestined.

To have tubby flannel man boob ipa aesthetics and drip? The only thing dripping on your drip is the sweat because y'all has a bunch of tubbies, a bunch of teletubbies, a bunch of five point tulip Calvinist teletubbies on the entranets. Anyway, this is the next generation of like the Doug Wilson's who also is a giant tubby man. Seeing how they're all tubby? Do Protestants not know how to eat?

Do they?

I don't understand. They don't go to the gym, They don't understand, Like what it's it's not hard to not be tubby, especially in the days of the Internet, where we can figure out how to eat. I can understand twenty years ago we didn't know about diets, that we didn't know about high fromptose, current storp and all this junk. But anyway, yes, I'm making jokes. I think these people are kind of worthy of making jokes. Now again, now

I mean, that's due, said this bud News commudian. Well it could crush him and do sick good to debate. Oh Bulgarrial Gulvinus. There's five of us and all the Bulgiria. It's the true church. Clearly, Uh no, won't come. Now, we got this other dude right here. Look at this guy.

He just wants to call us names. No wonder, we don't want to debate him. Sola Chad. Now, if you're a chad man, he's this is more more than more like a fed profile. He puts a dang ai gun and a Bible, but he won't come to bate. He's over here posting r C Sproler. He's over there sipping on r C Sproler, getting drunk. The rc sprol is like the He's like the Colombo of Calvinism. No, what why was that again?

Now?

Did you say told again? Run that back for me, because I'm rc Sproller. Take a take a drink on my drip, get drunk on by Calvinism.

Did these Calvinists won't last ten minutes in a debate. I guarantee you I know inside and out Calvinism. So I hope that you guys will step up. It's open for him. I'm a comedy. I'm a clown, dude. I even put in my profile clown. Look at that right there, writer for Sam Hide Show. Comedian Officially, now I can officially call it. I appropriated that title in deception because I didn't actually have any proof that I was a comedian except for being on The Tucker Show for ten

But in today's world, you can just call yourself whatever you want. You can manifest it. So I manifested myself as a comedian. Then Sam Hide hired me, So let that blow your mind. That's proof of manifestation, dog, how do you prove manifestation? I got the one ring. Look at that, that's Frodo's one ring right there. The one ring doesn't just make you invisible, it also manifests your dreams. I manifested this, so.

Now I actually do have cred. Now why do I say all that? Because if I'm an idiot comedian man, it should be nothing for any of these smart boomer theology men and gen X's theology man. They should be able to just pop on here and demolish me in two seconds, make me look stupid, eh, wouldn't it be? Yeah, name it claiming. That's what I'm talking about. I was following Kenneth Copeland when y'all were still in your diapers.

Uh.

But by the way, I do have a pretty intense dislike for Calvinism, and I can say that as a person who was a Calvinist. I was at bonson seminary. So today we're going to open it up. Hopefully we get some some Protestants and some Calvinists over here. You know, as I think back over the last several years, we've had a lot of Roman Catholic debates. Well, where's all the Protestants. Let's see, who was the last Protestant I remember debating? Was Dale the Protestant together with doctor bow Brands.

Same thing.

Protestants, Muslims, same thing.

When you do a debate with them, they're like, well, you didn't debate the real Calvinist. You debated this young man who's basically a child on the untrodout. He's only tw he loved or whatever he is.

Yes, I know there's always the hidden e mom of the Calvinist that's out there that you haven't yet debated because you're running from the hidden mom. Nobody knows who the hidden mom is, but you're running from him because you won't debate the real Muslim scholar, just like you

Banana phone, Matt Dola monkey, Matt Dela monkey. You climbed up in that tree? What you're doing up there? Are you scared. Why are you running from every deep bay?

Hey?

You ran from and and from me, So don't piss me off. I'll get on that banana phone.

And by the way, that banana phone has your mom's number on speed dial.

That's the zigger. Laugh, don't be racist. This phone, this phone right here calls directly to Matt Dela monkey, your mom, and Mohammed. Hey, jab, there was a there was a Calvinist saying that I'm I'm the orthodox Mohammed a job because I don't really debate anybody. I just throw out the debate me excuse okay, dude, yeah sure, even though that's totally backwards. As a reminder, Mohammed h a job when I asked him to debate after this, take them back.

As you can see for my Twitter, four people challenge me to debate my team his team.

Does he actually have a team or is that like Sneako and two other goobers our team review. You do not generate numbers. You only have a four hundred thousand views on Big Video. I am not closing door. Figure out. I wait to become more popular. So he mean, girl me, I'm not allowed at the popular table. Even though even though our debate was originally the biggest debate of last year. I would say maybe because of the Joe Rogan thing, that the Wes Huff Billy Corson debate has surpassed it,

Well when that jew but we're kind the Jewish and hence the term Jewish.

You see, they actually believe that that's what that word means. Like these are people who can't do grammar, but their prophets, Like they don't know third grade grammar, but they have the gift of prophecy. I'm not joking, Like that's literally what these people believe. So I think with like, you can't debate those kinds of people, Like if a person can't function like they're this is a new dude though. Right he's a Jewish guy debating a black heuber Israelite.

Hey, what's up, Jake?

Who would win in a debate between an Orthodox Jewish rabbi and Yakoub?

Depends on the day.

I think I got like if it was the Sabbath and he couldn't debate exactly? Okay, what's on your mind? Dog?

So actually not really here to debate. I'm actually I have a great.

Interest in Orthodoxy, but I was raised Protestant and so figured out to ask you a couple questions. First, one is when it comes to veneration, which is something that's super foreign to Protestants. This this idea of latria versus Julia, honor and worship I pulled up in Revelation. Let's see sixteen verse two, the word worship, I'm gonna try to pronounce it proscanello, right, So Proscanillo here. I'm curious as I'm looking through all of the different links to Proscanillo

I to him man.

So it's not so a lot of times what Protestants do, and I'm not faulting you for this, is that they will look up in a Greek dictionary or a lexicon the usage of that term, and then assign a single sense to that term. So we could say that I revere, I honor, I give homage, I venerate like all of those terms could mean different things. So do I honor God? Yes? Okay, honor your father mother? Do you honor God the father? Sure?

So would you say, essentially, it does come down to the heart of a person, and it's individualized case by case. That's really really not distinguishable for most people externally, Like would you agree with well.

I would say that in many cases, you know, say we're where we go to some pagan region and everybody's bowing down to an idol. It would be the case that most likely pretty much everybody there that's bowing down is committing idolatry, because in their hearts they do conceive of that idol as having mystical power or being divine,

Yeah, okay, it makes sense too, and it's cool to see.

I think it's later in Revelation the verse where God actually says that he will command those to bow down at the feet of those he loves, all right, So it's a cool distinction, So I appreciate that.

And then yeah, I highly reckoon men. By the way, though Jerome's essay. Have you read that? No, it's not very very long. I highly recommend It'll give you a good four fifth century insight into what the church in Saint Jerome's day thought about these things. Is I'm pretty sure it's against televidios. I could look it up, but it might be against vigilantius. There's two one is against one is about the perpetual virginity, and then the other one is about relics.

So okay cool.

And then to tap into that, because it flows perfectly is with generation and with especially specifically veneration of theotokos being at this elevated even elevated higher about the saints.

One of my main trip ups right now, because like I said.

I'm very well thinking about becoming a catechumen soon and one of the biggest things that's kind of I'm ulling over my mind is the generation of theotokos because that man, some of the things I'm reading in the liturgies these liturgy books are like wow. And when I'm reading Saint Clement Ignacious justin Martyr. You know, these very first first guys in the one hundreds, none of them mentioned theotokos, I think, like at all.

So I just had like this.

It's so exparagement where I'm like, yeah, what's what's going on there?

So nobody uh So, there's countless things that even Protestants believe that the first second century church fathers, even third centery church fathers don't mention. For example, there's no first second, third century church father that lists the entire Protestant Canon of Scripture. So the idea that there's there's this expectation of every controversy or every theological issue having some explicit written reference is kind of impossible, unworkable, and it's a

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, And then just kind of a much smaller question.

But even like when when reading about Justice justin Martyr, he does seem to have an emphasis on teaching and reading of the Word, and you know, in the weekly gatherings, which it seems like divine liturgy as I've briefly known.

It does not seem to have the same emphasis.

Would you just say, you know, well, now we just break it up into different parts of our weeks, and or maybe it was it was just historical context.

Well, it's up to you hold on so that. I don't think that's true at all. It's to you to whether you choose to follow the daily readings or not. And then at the liturgy itself, maybe you didn't hear or weren't paying attention. But everything that's sung is scripture. So I'm not trying to be rude, but did you not pay attention? Like the movable psalms that come in and out are based on where we are in the

Yeah, yeah, well, I guess maybe it just comes down to homily, the homily itself, like somebody in authority, the priest, walking through the applications of scripture, things like that.

But yeah, you're right as far as.

Well, But every service includes a reading from the epistles and a reading of the Gospels, and then there's every now and then you'll find based on certain situations the priest doesn't do it homily, but they usually do so. For example, this last Sunday, we had a pretty lengthy homily on love and the Gospel, so out of the Gospel. So I don't I don't know what you mean, Okay, cool, I'm not trying to be rude. I just like I don't understand the like the idea that maybe you mean

Yeah, yeah, I mean exactly, just just coming from a Protestant perspective in the background, there's such an emphasis on, right that that forty five minutes long homily, right compared to these past few weeks. Yeah, like you said, five to ten minutes, fifteen minutes maybe tops.

It's just not an emphasis.

So something that I'm noticing and curious about as I read like justin Marter and his brief mention of you know what these Sundays look like.

I think those Sunday but those Sundays are liturgical celebrations, even in Justin Martyr that culminate in the Eucharist according to.

Him, right, okay, right, And and that's one of the things I appreciate most and attracted to most about Orthodox he is the emphasis and revolving around the Holy Sacraments and specifically the Eucharist.

So that's cool.

Cool, And then I'm trying to think if there's anything else you answered my question about you know Mary, and that that really is probably the biggest hangout.

Have you seen the video I did a forty minute video on the biblical view of Mary?

Yeah, I actually think I did a couple of weeks back.

Is that with the Ark of the Covenant as the Yeah? Yeah, yeah, that was cool. Yeah, awesome. Just to tap in one more question would be when it comes to the story when when the woman yells out to Jesus and or his disciples and says, blessed is you know the mother who he's nursed at her breast and whatnot? And he doesn't rebuke her, but he says, rather bless her are those who to do you know, who do the Lord's.

Will, who follow me?

Yeah, she fits the double blessing. That's the point. So it's not like no, she's not blessed for being my mother. Rather, it's these things. It's rather blessed are those who do both. And she did both. That's why she's the new Eve. As Aaron AA.

Says, cool, Well, thanks appreciate it, Ja, Yeah, and I think I mean Revelation twelve also, I mean, I think it makes it really clear that she's exalted to.

Be the queen of Heaven. And the reason for that is precisely because if you look at the typology, you'll look back in the Old Testament, you'll see multiple types of Mary, and Protestants miss this. But Sarah is a type of Mary, Hannah is a type of Mary. And the Magnificat prophesies that all generations would call her the blessed Mother. And that's precisely the thing that Protestants stopped doing, especially as you know, Protestantism evolved into more radical forms.

Hello, yep, jay, can you hear me?

Yep?

Hey? What's going going on? So?

I am a catech human new Cateauman, but I was raised a Protestant, and for the last ten years I actually was in a charismatic church or Church, Charismatic group, and a big part of that, big part of the theology, I guess, is that you have to speak in tongues, and they have a they have a term that says the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. So you know that that for me was I grew up non to nom initially, and then so that for me was kind of like, whoa, this

Whatever, and but then but then now, as a.

Kind of human, you know, I I can easily accept Okay, that was the term zeno glossia as opposed to glossalia. But I'm seeing in Corinthians there's a part where Paul is talking about the gift of tongues in being used in worship, and that.

It's just languages, bro, It's just languages. So it's translating the texts or the message the revelation into various languages, which is what is done in the Orthodox Church where everywhere they go they put it into the vernacular. It's not gibberish, there's no there's no secret angel language that charismatic heretics are doing.

Wow.

Okay, Okay, that that makes perfect sense.

And I don't know why that was hard for me too.

Yes, it's just it's literally just translating or having the gift of knowing and translating languages, or maybe even if you're not academic, like it could be like at Pentzeco, it's the miraculous event where the languages are understood, right right.

Okay, cool?

Yeah, So that was that was a bit kind of like a not a stumbling.

Block for me, but just a question that I had.

And I'll agree that things that you've been saying a lot of really good things already so far about Protestantism and how like, for instance, it's not the Bible is not like a study a study book that you take home and you read, and I feel like the like Protestants in me included, it's it's a matter of just almost like throwing.

Away all these ways.

That you read the Bible and you have to like redo the whole thing.

It's really hard for.

A lot of people to do that. But yeah, for me, as a coming from the.

Charismatic Church, you know, there's a huge focus on like worshiping God and just pursuing God in like an unabandoned kind of way.

So coming to Orthodoxy.

Also was very easy for me too, because.

I'm like, Okay, all of that stuff that I learned, I can just throw that away and just worship God and just focus on the liturgy. So would you say that the liturgy is the greatest way to learn Orthodoxy?

Yeah, I mean you're going to learn it when you attend and when you're in the that's the best categorizer. I mean, you'll have catechises too, but I mean the liturgy. The liturgy will teach you that theology in a very profound quick way if you pay attention.

To it, right right, right, Okay, Well that was really just a big question that I had, what I've been thinking about for a while, So I appreciate it thank.

You, sure, thank you. Yeah, those are good questions. I think a lot of people assume that the quote languages in First Corinthians are some sort of weird gibberish or secret Gnostic thing. I've seen some exegesis from the Orthodox perspective that Paul's talking about noetic prayer. So that's a possibility. But the sign of Pentecost, if you look back to Isaiah, I think it's Isaiah twenty let me see twenty two

Hey? Yeah, I was just calling in.

I have some questions about Catholicism because so I actually grew up Eastern Orthodox, but I just so I have some people personally close to me that have kind of like bought into like.

Hemism and you know, like bought into what.

Palmism, you know, and like Roman Catholic doctor and in general.

Well, let me ask you the first question. First question before you move on. Do you think that the modern Vatican has cared about Tomism for the last seventy eight years?

No, not at all.

Now, sure ahead, Yeah, I'm just curious, like when did the approach of like Roman Catholicism become so much more like legalistic than Eastern Christianity.

I don't think there's one point. There's a kind of an ongoing evolution over time. As to why the Latin Church took on that attitude, you could look to the tendency in Rome itself to favor organizational structure and authority, whereas in the East, generally speaking, you had a much more metaphysically minded discussion. I mean, even the Roman poets and Roman philosophers are very practical and very interested in,

Yeah.

Yeah, And I guess it's just really confusing because I was watching a live term reviewers from a Complete or last June when the papal was called the Bishop of Rome premiacy document came out that Yeah, and it's just really confusing because it seems like like the message and tone, like post was a post concilliar era just continues to do this thing where they act like they you know, they're continuing to be legalistic, but like, didn't what you just referenced about like infants being damned?

Did they like backtrack on that?

Yeah, if you read the new document from the Vatican on limbo from a few years ago, it says that you don't even have to believe that anymore.

But how I don't get how they can keep like I don't want to, you know, the meme, like how do they keep getting away with this?

Like because they pray on the but because it's a strong delusion that the followers won't be honest with themselves

Yeah, because like between that and then like with the whole legalistic approach, when when I heard you like talk about the monarchical you know, structure of the Trinity.

I wouldn't.

I wasn't very well kind of guys growing up Eastern Orthodox. I guess I'm grateful I was Orthodox.

But like I just don't.

I'm trying to understand how like what it seems like you're saying, there wasn't really an inflection point, but there's these things that maybe were understood for a long time in Eastern Orthodoxy that just changed at some point like overtime. Like like Saint Thomas Aquinas comes along, he talks about divine simplicity, makes a giant book, and then they just like.

Jump shit or what No, I mean the trinitarian errors, original sin, like, all of the errors are not all at once. They take time to develop. So for example, the papacy doctrine as Vatican One frames it, even they themselves typically argue that it evolves. So when they're presented with these challenges, a lot of times they will appeal to doctrinal development, which just for them means that it's changing over time.

It just feels like an like unfalsifiable position.

No, that's exactly what the papacy is.

It.

It's in I mean like ninety percent of them argue in an unfalsifiable way. Anytime there's a problem, it's suddenly not binding in not ex cathedra. Uh and so yeah, anyway you go about it like they pick and choose like Protestants, which papal teachings they follow. So you know it's it's absolutely by the way, an unfalsifiable system is a sign that it's extremely weak.

Yeah, you were talking about this, I think in that same lime stream live stream about the premacy document, and I just I was, I was laughing really hard at the whole, like wait for Vatican four, and wait for Vatican five, and wait for Vatican six, because when I was reading the documents, it seems like they just keep making the same statement. Will like, oh, when we looked it over again, even though we said we can't go back on previous understanding, we're gonna like casually do it.

But gaslight in you thinking it's not the.

Case, right, Yeah, absolutely, It's just so weird.

I don't know, Well, Donna take much too much for your time. I appreciate it.

I thought I was.

I just felt like I was being gas lit by the like the inconsistencies.

So I don't know. I just appreciate your stuff.

Sure, yeah, you were being gas So that's uh, that's how they do their apologetics. Here's a trad Catholic. He's gonna watch him do that everything. I tried to turn the audio up, trad Cat, Are you there, I'm mute, trad Cat, I'm mute, and he ran away. So there you go. So there's your trad cats for you. Try again. I'm mute.

Okay, now, yes, I couldn't hear you before.

Can you hear me?

Yep?

I just had a question.

What's your position on like the Rosary?

I don't know. I mean Orthodox don't need it and probably shouldn't do it because usually the rosary is tied to Roman cally delusions like imaginative prayer and all this kind of stuff.

What do you mean imaginative?

I mean that's your own tradition. You're not aware of it.

Like what you mean, like when you're like meditating on mysteries.

Well, it's more than that, because it's part of the Jesuit tradition. It's part of what Alfonso's wory tells you to do, which is to imagine all these scenarios, imagine yourself in hell imagine all these things, and so that's we don't do that. We reject that delusion.

But what what's like the harm in doing that?

Because humans are susceptible to those kinds of delusions. For example, I've had heard countless Roman calviocs say, oh, I know, roma's also true because I was praying the Rosary and Mary appeared in my dreams and comforted me. I mean that's not a good reason to believe the religion.

Well, yeah, I.

Agree, But like I'm saying, like as a practice of faith, like or helping you like overcome sin and stuff like that, Like, wouldn't.

That be good?

No, imaginative prayer is not part of our tradition, So it doesn't achieve the purification of the passion or the news or anything like that. In fact, it encourages delusion and pre list.

So then how would you like word towards singing lesson stuff like that?

What would you do then?

Through the entire ethos of the Orthodox Church?

Like, can you give me some examples?

Yeah, Well, we have asceticism, we have attendants at the liturgy, confession, Eucharist, all those things.

So the Eos believe in translo right, in what transistentiation.

We believe in the real presence and that it's really a participation in the uncreated grace. But we don't have the Roman Catholic position that you're eating a created divine substance.

A creative divine substance.

Yeah, I don't think that's what the Catholics believe.

Well, you don't need the essence of God, right, No, okay, so what do you eat the body?

Well, actually it says that we eat the body's soul and divinity.

And what's the divinity? You don't believe in the essence inary sanctions? So what's the divinity?

Uh to say, I'm not sure then, yeah.

Because it's a created substantial or created accident.

It's like it's like created grace or something.

Correct, So is there created God?

No?

Well you just said you eat divinity. Now you're saying it's a created God, but that didn't exist, which one is it?

Uh?

Wait?

But how does like having like created grace or something, and you're that that's like a created God.

You literally just said that in the Eucharist you partake a body, blood, soul, and divinity. I asked you what the divinity is? You said that it's not the essence of God.

Huh, it would be a created grace.

Is a created grace a creature?

Uh?

No, so there's uncreated creatures.

What do you mean a creature?

Like you just called it created. You don't know what created means.

Yeah, but like you're saying it like it's like a person or something.

Okay, no idea what you're talking about. You don't even know your own traditions, terminology discussion. Calling it a creature is calling it a person. Wow, there's a romanchaolics for you, trad cats baby meta.

Hello, yep, Hey Jay, So I was watching your debate with Matt dyl a monkey as you like to call him, and I was just curious on one of the debate points that you guys are discussing. So essentially, I guess whenever it went to like the conclusive part of the debate, wherever he was saying he doesn't have to have a justification for these fundamental, fundamental metaphysical claims. So how is that different from like positing that God exists?

Because the argument was giving a justification for why I can say that God exists. I wasn't just saying God exists, therefore it is. My argument was that if Matt doesn't have to give a justification, then I don't.

So then that puts you guys on the same plane essentially.

Well, it's pointing out that he wouldn't accept that line of argumentation, So why should I accept that from him in a debate?

Oh? Interesting, Okay, that's pretty much what I want.

Yeah, no, it's it's a good question. I haven't actually listened to that debate a long time, so maybe I should go back and review, like an old debate like that. George, Matt doesn't even know that emergent properties, as Father Deacon and Ias has pointed out, do not aid materialism in any way. Emergent properties arose as a theory against materialism, but Matt doesn't even know that. George, mister Dyer.

Thank you for having me up. I have a friend who's an Anglican priest. He's agreed to debate you, but he prefers to do it in a formal space. He sort of doesn't want to be moderated. Would you fire me a DM and I'll just introduce you and you too.

Who is it?

His name is Father James and he's on here.

He doesn't have James.

His last name is not on his profile. I'm sure he would be happy to give you all his information.

Well, there's a certain angl can I know that I'm not interested in debating. So I'm trying to figure out that was him, But I don't think it is. Does he? How big is his following? And what what would I get out of this?

All right, so he's going to fall small, small following.

Not interested? Thank you appreciate it. S no, anybody not trying to be rude, but I don't do formal debates with anybody who has small following. So that's what the Twitter spaces are for. If you want to come to debate, anybody can do that. Uh, let's see, where's that guy that was begging to be let back in here? Data boy? So do we have any Protestants? I know we've got a lot of people asking Orthodox questions, which is fine, but I'm looking for Protestants who disagree. O cay see one?

Yes, shotum, and greetings to all of you. My name is Ramin. I'm a former Muslim and a Christian.

Now he can put me in the category of a Protestant, but I try not to basically put myself in a category because the Bible doesn't say if you're a Protestant or Catholic or art buct will be saved. It says you must be born again.

Now, But what does that mean because the rest of the New Testament texts talk about that being baptism.

Yeah, well born again is we have three kinds of death in the Bible.

When is it physical death, spiritual death, and eternal death?

Which is also called second death.

So that what does it have to do with baptism.

What I just said, baptism is an outer outer.

You're just repeating Protestant Baptist doctrines. And I'm telling you in Titus three five, it's called the washing of the labor regeneration.

Yes, but that's in this speit's what happened.

How do you know that? You're just asserting that when Paul doesn't make that distinction. How do you know that every time Paul talks about baptism is quote spiritual, Well.

The baptism was an outer confession.

You're just restating the question I'm asking you, how do you know that that's what Paul means and all those passages about.

Baptism, because it's all over the Bible.

So the answer is it's all over when that's the thing I'm asking you. So in other words, so why what are you for the third time going to just tell me your interpretation again?

No, it's not my interpretation. Is what the Bible says.

That's what you're saying, That's what the Bible says, And I'm saying no. In John three, I think Jesus is talking about water baptism, and that's why Acts too. Peter says, repent and be baptized for the remission of sins? Is it water baptism in Acts two thirty eight thirty nine?

What the bone again happens?

Is it water baptism in Acts two thirty eight thirty nine. Yes, oh it is. But that's where he says, is the remission of sins?

No, the remission of sins, it doesn't happen with Washington the water.

It literally says that in Act two thirty eight thirty nine.

No, nobody gets saved by being baptizing the water.

That's your Yeah, please keep us starting the Protestant doctrine, which is what I'm challenging, which you said it is water baptism in actually thirty eight and thirty nine. And he says that that is the remission of sentence.

But listen, when I became a believer, I.

This is your subjective interpretation. I don't. It doesn't matter what you what your personal experience was.

No, I'm telling you right now there are tens of thousands of Iranians who have become believers in Jesus and they are not able to get baptized because in Iran, there's not possibility to get arrested or but they love the Lord and they're not even baptized, but they're born again, they're full of.

The Holy space.

Let's just bag in the question. I mean, they may be in God's mind and that's fine, but the normative means by which we do this is said to be multiple times throughout the New Testament, actual baptism. So you're just assuming Protestantism, which is the very thing that I'm questioning about. So how do you prove Protestantism to me?

Well, as I said, I'm not a Protestant, was a basically, you.

Are a Protestant. Why are you acting like you're not? Okay, evangelical? Is that better?

Yeah?

So basically what happened with the Protestantism Martin Luther, it was a protest against Catholic system of you know, justification by works.

And unaware on faith plus works. And what all Protestant was was no.

Again, I don't need to I know the history of the Pross and Reformation. I'm not trying to be rude to you, but I'm asking you about evangelicalism, which is what you're part of, and I'm asking you, why should we accept evangelicalism.

I guess it's not evangelicalism, it's being.

Or being dishonest because you just admitted that you weren't evangelical like two minutes ago.

Yeah, evangelical? What is evangelical?

The Christians?

I'm not going to argue with you over terms. Where do you get your Bible from?

What do you mean? What am I going about?

Where do you get the Bible from? Did it just fall out of the air into Iran?

No? I actually run is illegal to a Bible. So I don't live in your own now. I live in Israel.

But when I when I became a believer, I served for a Bible for three months.

I find one.

We're moving on, not falling for that. Jordan Jordan, Michael Jordan, I'm mute. We can't hear you, dude. I don't know if you don't know, didn't turn your mic on or what? But you want to come back, turn your mic on and come back, We'll go to you. All right. Let's see, I thought I was supposed to unmute this, unblock this guy who he hasn't showed up. So see this is

Here we go go ahead.

Hello, okay, okay, I'll teach you later.

Oh sorry, I'll be with you in one minute.

Okay, bring your mom on to debate. She'll probably did about in't you. We got a trad cat whose mom's fustin at him because he won't get off the computer in the basement. He's used up his computer time in the basement, So bring your mom on to debate.

Sorry about that.

Your mom a debate better than you want you to bring her on.

Oh hey, ja, I tried connecting a few weeks ago, but I was having computer issues.

Sorry about that.

Did your mom let you stay on longer this time?

That wasn't my mom, that was someone else?

Okay, go ahead. So I am Catholic.

I think I said that on one of my previous previous appearances. So I definitely do believe in, like, you know, continuity with the ancient Church and Apostolic succession and all that.

I should say.

That I was baptized Catholic. I went to a Presbyterian church for a little bit when I was like nine, and I got confirmed Catholic as a teenager. So that's my background.

I guess you could say, Okay, so.

I'm not Protestant as you know, and I do believe in Apostolic succession, and I don't believe in like you know, I don't believe you know when like set of Acantism or.

Any anything like that.

I think those intellectual positions are untenable. So I take it you as an Orthodox Christian, you have your own ways to debunk, say, like the old calendarists and like the quote unquote genuine orthodox.

I don't know about my own way, but I have, uh. I mean, David Rhan made a whole video that's pretty good on this about the legalistic it's actually a Western mindset that every all the grace is shut off or something like that. I mean, what about it? What is it? I mean, what is that going to prove against? Like I mean, so that'd be like me saying, well, you have a set of a contest so Roman Catholicism is false, Like how does that prove or disprove anything?

I would I was just asking what your thoughts on like the old calendar.

Well, most many old calendars are. Also. My church is on the old calendar.

So well, I know that Rokor.

I know that.

The Russian Orthodox Church and the Serbian Orthodox Church and the Georgian Orthodox Church all used the old calendar liturgically, mm hmm, but I know some of the other countries that they used the reformed Julian calendar. There was a schism in like the twenties or something.

I mean, I would argue that if the church is not canonical, then that's really not a church. And I don't know of any time in history where we were supposed to go to a non canonical church. So the creation of a parallel ecclesiology to me doesn't make sense.

Okay, that definitely does make sense. I do have some questions about Augustine and how his philosophy shaped the Catholic Church. You would talk about this a little earlier, so I do know about Augustine's doctrine of original sin. How the Orthodox don't accept that. They call it ancestral sin. If I'm not mistaken now, I know that I'm pretty sure the Council of Trent said that humans, all humans, are guilty of Adam's sin.

But if I'm not.

Mistaken, the current Catholic catechism is more takes a position that's more similar to the Orthodox position, and they say that humans are no longer that is correct, guilty of adam sin.

Right, Yeah, the modern Roman Catholic position is much closer to the Orthodox position distinguishes actual sin from original sin. I mean that actually goes back to the Middle Ages where even when infant limbo was mentioned in the early Middle Ages, that was attended with the idea that there's a distinction between the deprivation of grace and original sin

Did this change with Vatican two or was it before that?

Well, I would say Vatican two played a role in it, because Vatican two did attempt to bring in so called quote voices and inspiration from the East. There were a lot of periti at Vatican two, like Hans Wor's on Balthazar, who were very influenced by Eastern theology, so that could play a role. But the Vatican statement on Limbo was not that long ago, so it was a post Vatican.

Two okay, And that's the one you were talking about earlier that said infants aren't damned?

Correct, Well, this is why. Yeah, it's uh, let's see when did this come out? Pulling it up there, I highly recommend people interested in this topic should read it. Doesn't have a date on it, so I'm not sure when this comes. When this came out, but it's called the Hope for Salvation of Infants who die without being baptized. This was a CDF document. I think under rat Singer it might have been under John Paul. I don't recall.

Speaking of baptism the last guy who came on here. I know in the Catholic Church there's this concept of baptism by blood and baptism by desire, which are kind of like the non normative means someone would.

Be Yeah, I mean that's true. We believe in that in the Orthodox Church.

Two.

Okay, so that's in the Orthodox tradition as well.

Yeah, and now if we had gotten further in that discussion, I'm.

Sure you know about the Catholic heresy of Foeneism.

Was a big fan of Father Phenie at one time.

Yeah. Well, basically the Catholic Church doesn't quld to that position obviously. But I do have another question about something that was brought up earlier. I think it was with I think we're talking about Protestant mariology. And I noticed a lot of evangelicals online are very adamant that Mary had to have had other children and had to have had relations with Joseph, and that was a Catholic I,

Well, it was proposed by Helvidius in the days of Jerome, So I mean it's not it's not a new idea, but it's very possible that more recent higher critical scholars also probably promoted that idea.

I do know about Helvidius, and I believe Saint Jerome.

Wrote a work.

Yeah, I mean his views in three D three a D if I'm not.

Mistaken, Yeah, it pulled up.

Yes, So another question, because I do know about the higher criticism that came out of I'm sure you know about people like.

Adolf von Harnak and what was.

That other guy, Julius. There's that other guy, uh schlier Marker. There's a whole bunch of them.

Schlier Marker, that Friedrich Schleiermacher. That's why I was thinking of. And then there was a lot of big Boltmann. He was a more contemporary Rudolph Boltmant. Rudolph Boltmann, my bad, but I know this is one of the.

I know this.

You argue against Protestants a lot that Luther taking out the wanting to take out the Epistle of James and some other books led to this, you know, deconstruction.

Of the canon.

Yeah, I think that you can definitely trace higher criticism to Luther. I mean, I don't think Luther is the only influence, but he's a major influence in Germany for the idea that the Bible is not a book that's owned and possessed and the purview of the church. It's now in the hands of the secular academics to dissect and to tell us who the Bible really belongs to

This is the guy who was on Joe Rogan recently, right, Yeah, he's a Calvinist, isn't he.

I know he's a Protestant of some comment. I don't know what his saturial.

I think he has made some criticisms of Catholicism.

I don't know if he has of Orthodoxy.

Yeah, he has, He's obviously he's critical of them both. I mean, he's a committed Protestant of some of some sort.

Oh are you going to debate him at any point?

Or well, I've offered, but he says that he's not in a place where he's ready to do any more debates, So I don't think it'll ever happen. But I'm i put out of video saying that I'm more than happy to debate him.

Okay, I haven't watched the Joe Rogan episode with him, but I might because I'm kind of interested to hear what he says. But I do notice that a lot of Protestants have this very individual, individualistic view of the Bible, like.

It's just in yeah, in my bedroom.

Well that's called the right, that's called the right of private interpretation, and that was actually one of the core historic doctrines of the Protestant Reformers.

So yeah, yeah, are you familiar with this?

This website?

It's kind of like non are you familiar with this, like non denominational Christian website questions.

I've seen it, Papa, but I'm not familiar with it. But hey, appreciate you coming on. Thank you for being a good nature guy. About the jokes. We like to have fun over here. Dang, we got twenty almost twenty five people in line. So today I'm taking giving a precedent to Protestants who disagree. If you're a Protestant disagrees, raise your hand. You can ask questions, but if you would like to debate, please keep it to making arguments. That means that you actually give the basis for your position.

So you made a video a while back talking about Protestism and criticizing them a bit, and this open debate performed plat format that you do and three issues you said you stayed with. It was it was a historical. It was anti sacramental, anti mystical, and just flat out dumb. Yes, the problem that I have with that is specifically a historical and the issues I have with that, and some of the issues you gave for why protestant is antihistorical

Some example.

Those are some examples. There could be many more listed.

Sure, And the issue I have with that, if Protestantism is a historical by those, I would say, so is Orthodoxy.

And how is that?

Well?

For starters Constantinople fell in fourteen fifty three.

You can't be serious that this is an argument, that you think this is an argument.

It's just it's the start of one.

Yeah, what does this have to do with the theology. This is why I block this guy, because this is too too dumb. I mean, are you the synoticon of Orthodoxy?

Yeah?

Because I believe in the sonoticon of Orthodoxy. In one of the statements you give Thanksgiving, and that is the glorification and of the defenders of Orthodoxy might not mistaken.

Probably, I don't remember. It's a giant text.

It's a giant text that's different among different branches of Orthodoxy.

Right because different bishops can add their own personal For example, Metropolitan Seraphim a Pereas adds the Joe's witnesses to the condom name texture.

And the problem I have with that is the statement of the defender of Orthodoxy, which originally within the church was the Holy Roman Emperor, as was stated by Anthony, Patriarch of Constantinople in thirteen ninety three to a to a letter to Basle the First, the Grand Prince of Moscow, saying, my son, it is not possible for Christians to have a church and not have an emperor.

Church and Empire have a great.

Unity and community.

It is not possible for them to be separated from one another. For the Holy Emperor is not as other rulers and the governors of other regions.

And this is because the emperors from.

The beginning establish and confirmed true religion Eustia in all inhabited world Okiomennia.

They convoke the Yeah, I don't know to pronounce.

The word obviously, and so orthodoxy is false because z Antium fell.

I mean, it's not just that Bonantium fell.

Puppet all right, Now we see why I booted this guy, and I was right to boot that guy. This is too stupid to even entertain. So, guys, I know you want entertainment, but when you asked me to bring back Banantium and these kinds of goofballs, it's usually because they're booted for a reason. So let's get on my banana phone and let's call up Banantium and let's talk to the Bananatine emperor and see if we can get any history about why he's not ruling on an earthly throne

Like?

Where are you at, Bumpkin? I mean, are you not in the line to speak? You just want to thumb down? This is so stupid. Look, uh, just to like me as Byzantine Emperor of the Banana Tine Emperor of the are you'll cool ya mine and the problem solved? Bro Okay, Bumpkin. If you're not gonna come on to debate, then you're just clogging up with all of your memes, I mean, your emojis, so you're wasting everybody's time, by the way I would. I don't even want to live in the

Hello?

No, no, sorry? Hello?

Can you hear me?

Yes?

What the fuck is that?

That's me? Bro?

Oh, you're making point of how I speak.

I do impressions. I do them all the time.

That's not very Christian, is Oh?

Here we go? That's a pious of you to point out how impressions are not Christian.

That's not very christ like now, is it?

Okay?

No?

Well, have you ever had a psychedelic experience?

Oh, he's getting even even deeper. Were you praying while you were on your psychedelic experience? Was it mystical?

Well?

I mean, are you praying for me?

Now?

Well? You know, basically Hell is real? You know that, right? Hell is real?

Are you looking forward to me going there?

No? You know that Tibetans are right. Basically reincarnations.

Have an actual lunatic here.

Do you know that?

Good job, dude? It never fails that when the people are super pious and they want to talk about you christ like that, they're it's you got. The entertainment is about the flow. Cost Listen, I'm having fun today. I don't care. It's all good. The Tibetans are right. You go to hell, but you get reincarnated. What am I coming back as, hopefully as a banana teen emperor of the Banana Empire? What's up?

Man?

I'm mute? Cost? Is you a BHR bro? I'm mute?

You're here all right? Ju is it me?

I'm I up? Yes, sir?

Uh?

Just a few questions I've only heard you one time.

In another space.

But what are your thoughts on uh, positive Christianity and national socialism?

Positive Christianity. I don't even know what that is.

Okay, we could we could skip that. I could I send you some links.

It's essentially the type of Christianity that the National Socialist wan attenstedt.

Here we go, Here comes the Feds. Good job moving on, Here come the Feds. I'm mute, dude, just kidding. Who who's up next? We're on a roll here with quack a doodles quack a doodle do. Okay, where's this bumpkin dude? Because all he does is thumb down and it's like clogging up my screen. So where are you wasting this? You just wasting time? Dog, bumpkin? Are you gonna come to date otherwise? Immediately you first out the block and get rid of that other dude.

Hey, Yet the start of the stream, he said that a high taper faid was out of the style, A high taper faid. Yes, And if you think that in your orthodox I mean you're their best guy.

So like, if you get.

That wrong, how much else you gonna get wrong? Me and my Protestant buddies. We got some high taper fates, so.

I knew what would hit you below the belt and raw you up.

It was brutal. It was brutal.

I mean, are you Are you sucking on I p A right now too? Yes, sir, you guys come out of a factory dog. Yes, what's what's on your mind?

Oh? No, that does all I have to say. I just wanted to do.

That's all you had. I thought you were going to come with some heat, dude.

I mean I don't have that much heat. You know.

It's like, well, if you keep drinking those I pas, you will you can be sweating because you're going to be a man boob, a big old man bob. But we're on a roll today. Actually, that guy, I like that guy. That was funny. What good grief? We got like twenty three people. Now today is feral. We got feral people on here. Who's up next? Max?

There we go.

You know, those feral days are the funnest because they're the most entertaining to Jay.

I swear you've been ignoring me for like the.

Past hour, But it's because I'm scared. That's why I have no no idea who you are you're a blank profile, but I sensed that the blank profile would destroy me, So I'm super scared of you.

Actually, i'm scared of you.

I've seen you debate people like Madala HUNTI and really really smart atheist.

Like.

Pretty intimidating guy. But I'm not a Christian. I'm not a Protestant or a Catholic. I'm an I'm an atheist agnostic, and I actually have a verse that will either make or break Christianity. And I post it in the chat section of this space. If you want to click on that button there and show.

Your audience, why don't you just read it?

Well, I think it'd be better if they could.

All see it.

What's the verse?

Revelation sixteen twelve.

All right, I'll pull it up here.

We actually, I think it's Revelation six twelve. It's either Revelation sixteen twelve or Revelation six twelve.

The move to talks about the phrase river dry up.

So you don't even know, but you're gonna bibble scholaris here.

Well, no, I know, I know which.

It's not six and it's not sixteen too, So you don't even know the verses that you're gonna okay.

It's sixteen, it's sixteen.

No, it's sixteen twelve.

Okay, or wasting everybody's time.

No, no, no, And it says Andy six Angel Poorta is vile upon the Gray Phraates and the water there was dried up that way, that the way that the Kings of the East might be prepared, And basically the phrase river is predicted to dry up in twenty forty. So if this doesn't happen, then Christianity will be confirmed.

As a false throne. You're so stupid, dude. I can't even handle like the idiocy of this. I don't believe that this is a future prediction.

What do you think it?

No, it's revolution twenty seven thirty Heavan, Please don't call in if your IQ is not above eighty, please just spare us. I know people want entertainment, but Evan, Jay, how's it going?

Yep, No debates some questions, but just wanted to uh tell you my thanks to my appreciation. I was chrismated on theophony over the last week. So yeah, that's it.

Hey, thank you appreciate it, man, Thank you many years to you. Glad to hear that dog.

Josie, Hello, mister Jason, how are you doing?

Hello, mister Jason. You hear me?

Yeah, I just have a question about this thing.

Man.

It's the Trinity doesn't make any.

Sense, all right?

That was really funny, Albert, It is a Jamie said, is a full moon? Ye, mercurys and mercury is in retrogaate retrogade. It's in retrogade. Mercury is in retro gay. Hello, I'm you dude. You've been You've been yapping on the mojis. What's up?

What's up?

Room?

What's up?

Jay?

What's up everybody?

Since we're hitting up with the Bible coats.

Matthew seventeen twenty, bye, blah blah blah, boring stuff.

If you have faith, as the mustard seed, you will say to this this mountain move from here to there, and it will.

Move and nothing will be impossible for you.

I love the space, I love of what you're doing.

Keep going on. Jesus is great.

But always remember, in seventeen seventy six, when our beautiful country was created, all actually were kicked out because we don't want the role.

Next, who is a protest of that disagrees has an actual argument? Raise your hand? We got twenty two people. Carlos abrils me badly got into spot bro.

Okay, Jay, I have a quick question about canonicity for saints. I felt like it was kind of strange that there were some claims that the Rokor was saying that certain people are canonized as saints when they shouldn't have been, and that it was kind of propagated, or they'd be considered martyrs.

Fighting for Russia in an inappropriate way. I just didn't really know what to make of that.

I thought you were talking about the Romanov servants and jon Hus. What do you mean fighting in an improper way? I don't know what that means.

Well, I've heard that the current patriarch has said that, you know, people were active in the war in Ukraine could be considered martyrs for the church and whatnot.

I'm not exactly sure what he said. I mean, he could have said that it might be a controversial statement and there might be some people in real corps that disagree with it, but also, I mean, defending your homeland and dying for it could be considered a type of martyrroom.

Okay, and I have one question related to Yakub.

Everything about Yakuba is true.

Okay, I heard theos ours were killed in a conspiracy about Yakub.

I know I'm just rolling, but.

That's all right, But everything about Yakuba is true. So yes, yeah, I think in the Orthodox Church, canonicity for saints or being a saint is not It's not the same ideas what Roman Catholics think. So Romancalis think that, like you did, it's not just the miracles, but you have to live a life of what they call heroic virtue and all

Well?

He tries to connect over just a couple of super jets. How long we've been going for? Over two hours? Doesn't we just started? What the heck, dude, Tom is we're in some kind of time warp two hours. Dang, so we just started this. Okay, Well he can't connect. I don't know what his problem is, Stiger, you want to try again, There's no, You're not connecting. Coffee cup, the doors, the doors, three dollars, Sam Harris. Sam Harris signed your

What's up?

Coffee cup?

Yeah?

So does the Eastern or our church thing that Saint Augustine is a saint?

Yes, he's called a saint of the Fifth acta medical council.

Okay? Did he old heresies?

He held to errors? An error is not necessarily heresy. Every church father, in some way has some error that doesn't make them all heretics.

Okay.

So the philioque absolute divine simplicity or in heresies.

A heresy is something that's declared to heresy by the church eventually in a council. Augustine didn't believe anything erroneous at his time that he knew was a heresy. So i philioque is not condemned until the Middle Ages.

Okay, so before the nice and kind of the Nicean Council. If someone held that Jesus was in God or go substantial with the Father, then they were in heretics, right according.

To that law. No, no, because some errors are significant enough that the person that holds them. It's the attitude that they have and the humility that they have. So, for example, when Augustine writes on the Trinity, he says in book three, I am speculating, and I give these books to the judgment of the universal Church, and if there's anything wrong in them, they can be rejected. So that's the attitude of humility that for example, Origin didn't have.

Okay, gotcha?

Was He later corrected though, by other bishops and other theologians.

If he hands his book to the Church for judgment, and that doesn't mean that it happens overnight, if the Church doesn't in his lifetime judge it, but the Church judges by the time of the Fifth Ecumenical Council that he's a saint. And by the way, do you know what book the Fifth Ecumenical Council lists as his pre eminent theological work. No, okay, it's none of those books. It's against the Manicheans, so it's not on the Trinity, or of God or any of these other works.

Okay, gotcha, that was my question. Thank you. Right.

So, heresy is a sin of will and obstinacy, not just a sin of mistake or error. And not even Roman Catholics believe that he got everything right. They think he made all kinds of theological mistakes, which would mean that Roman Catholicism is false if that's the criteria, Because Augustine taught a pretty strict doctrine predestination that the Roman cally Church eventually doesn't adhere to. So if that's the case, then in the Roman Catholic system, he's also a heretic.

Hey, what's up?

Just had a couple of questions, like about Eastern Orthodox relationships.

I guess to the Reforms.

Okay, so I guess for starters, the main condemnation of the Reformed would be their relationship to Roman Catholicism.

Correct, the Orthodox condemnation of the Reformed would be the relation to Roman Catholicism. I don't know even know what that means, Like.

I suppose I can qualify the question.

So the Reformed are going to try to make some claim about their Apostolic succession, at least the High Reform right, and they're going to trace that through Roman Catholicism. They're not going to trace it through like either the East split.

I've never heard of a Reform person who believes in apostolic succession, so I don't even know what that means.

Oh interesting, all right, maybe this is some niche view, I guess the second question.

I mean, maybe an Anglican Calvinist, High Church Anglican Calvinists would try to claim that's the only.

I mean, yeah, yeah, I've heard that from High Church Anglicans through Reformed Anglicans even, but I've heard it from like OPC guys, right, Orthodox Presbyterians.

No, I mean, well, I mean, if they want to redefine what the word appstock succession means, then that's what they're doing, because there's no Protestants who are classical Reformation Protestants that believe that there's a transmission of the gift of the Holy Spirit in the laying on of hands.

Kind of in the same way that a Lutheran is going to argue for the historicity and apolasticity of the Lutheran Church.

But that's not what I just said, right.

No, I'm recognizing the distinction.

Then it's not apostolic session. It's redefining the terms to make Protestantism and continuity with some made up traditions, just like they do the same thing with Niceno constant Politan cree where says one Holy Catholic Apostolic and they redefine that to men the invisible Church.

Yeah, I'll just can side that it's like redefining. No problem there.

So the second question would be I've seen maybe I obviously need to read more about Eastern Orthodox resources on the sovereignty of God, but it seems to me that like certain historic views within the Eastern Orthodox can be consistent with like maybe four point or three point five, you know, tool of affirming Calvinists.

Do you agree or disagree? No?

Okay, which of the points? Like, do you flat out reject all of them? Fair enough? All right, I'm not gonna take up too much time. If you ever want to have like a formal debate, I d M.

Do you? So? Thanks for the space?

Well how about right now?

No, I'm not good enough at this. I have other people that I can talk to here or link you with. Again, I mean, what their names?

Is it? Somebody with an audience over a few hundred followers?

Uh?

Yeah, a couple of them. Jonathan Speaks would.

Be one of them.

And how big is his audience.

I'd probably guess around five six hundred.

Now, thanks, thanks for your time again. The Twitter spaces are for four or five hundred two three five thousand. I'm not doing any formal debates unless you have a large following. I didn't work my butt off debating one thousand goobers to debate all the top atheists and Muslims to spend all my time debating a bunch of five hundred follower people who want to chase clout and grow

Jud Are you there?

Yeah, I can hear you. It's real quiet. Can you hear me?

Yeah?

Hey, I don't know why your volume is super long on my phone, but I'm here, Okay.

I had a question for you. So I'm a Protestant, I'm.

An Evangelical and I've been inquiring into Orthodoxy and it's really fascinating stuff.

I'm trying to learn as much as I can.

The thing that I am having a hard time really understanding is your guys view on Christ's sacrifice and it comes to the shedding of blood and the old Testament sacrificial system. You know, that's really deeply ingrained and Protestant view of salvation.

And literally, so what I'm gonna say is, I'm gonna what I'm gonna say is go watch the video Protestant Penal Substitution Jay Dyer. We've literally covered this probably five hundred times. It comes up in every open space. So if you look at my clips channel, you'll find multiple things on PSA. I try to be rude, I'm just like, I mean, it's like probably a thousand times we've responded to that. Go ahead, yep.

Hey, so also Protestant here, very disgruntled Protestant.

I would like to go East Orthodoxy.

But my wife has voiced some concerns about y'all's mariology of Holy the Togos, and do y'all see her as totally sinless, like she has never sinned once.

In her life?

Or is that she is the most pure, most blessed, and and like I get all that part, but do y'all can make the contention that she's never sinned.

Her, Yeah, she's a spatless virgin and God's grace preserved her from.

Sinning, and so that would be a stumbling block for my wife is that she would not be comfortable saying that Mary only Tokos is sinless. She would say that she's not pure, if that's fine, but she would have the issue of making the jumpsy sinless.

What do you what do you recommend?

Just a little bit of a reminder. I'm going to be live at the Tampa Bay Screams Horror Convention. This is a decent sized convention with a rowdy troop of rascally b movie actors and others who will be there as well. I will be giving a lecture that evening, a dinner lecture that is separate from the convention, but we will also be at the convention and I will be presenting the Dark Secrets of Horror Films present. So join me tonight that night, excuse me, January nineteenth, in