Peter Pan-demic Part Deux - Out of This World #36

Hello, and welcome back to Out of this World and based lit Analyzer is back with me. We're going to be doing Pan Part two and we have a fantastic show for you tonight. Last week we were talking all about Peter Pan and the god Pan and Dionysus and Bacchus and mystery schools and how those went into theater and the Greek mystery plays and how that all became popular culture

today, movies, plays, songs. All of that stuff was initiatory practices of the ancient world into cults and learning how to invoke gods into yourself and do things in your god form. So that's what we're going to learn about tonight. And last time we defined Pan and we were talking about how Pan means all universal. It is the home. So when you say own money, pop me home, that's a Pan and any region withdrawn and without the

range of waking consciousness. And then we talked about notings, which we're going to talk about right now with the Great God Pan book by Arthur Makin. And another word I wanted to bring up out of the glossary of this book about the hidden God Pan is called the Night of Pan or n O x so in the Lima. This is like the when you lose your ego, right, It's called the Night of Pan and it's part of being reborn by the Goddess of Babylon. There you go, a life of Alistra Crawley.

Doesn't he talk about that in there? Yes? He does, yes, Yeah, the Oteo rituals and you know, I'm sorry to cut you off here. Yeah, it was interesting this, you know, because I know we're going to get into the Makin's the great God Pan here And this was a crazy book. It was so cral. Oh man, it's a crazy book. I mean, there's it's like you said, it's it's like it's

like a detective story slash poet. It reminded me of Poe's Murders in the Room Morgue, which is like the first detective story and the way that the narrative is set up. But but the revelation of Pan, of seeing Pan, you know, in this sort of hell night that leaves these people with this horror struck look on their faces pretty stark. It's pretty crazy book. It's very much like a Rosemary's Baby of Korean era, right, very much.

Yeah, we'll get into that real fast. But Okay, So the N O X, which the ox is part of the mark of the Beast in Thalima, right, it's the phallus and the lady part and the X and the O fused together is what they call the mark of the Beast. The beast is can or an amalgam of a lot of different things. It's the alchemical Bapham, which looks a lot like Pan. Pan also is related to the Bapham through the Goat of Mendies, the cult of Mendies in Egypt,

and he is related to the god Men of Egypt. And you can always identify men by his uh hoots on parts. Right, Yeah, it's very easy. You see what's going on with men. But so in this night of Pan they call it in Felima, and the Otos is a mystical state that represents the state of ego death and the process of spiritual attainment.

Right. And then in the AA they talk about, you know, getting in touch with your whole in Guardian Angel and you have to cross the Abyss and you meet drowns on and to escape the Abyss you have to pour out your blood in the cup of Babylon and be reborn again from Babylon and Pan. So now that your initiate in these Crowlean thelemic orders, you are a child of Pan. Right, Yeah, there's there are two parts in this book. This is just again this is Lawrence Sutton's Life of Alister Crowley.

I did a two parts stream on this book. There are two parts that are pretty brief that talk about Pan. And one of course is of course, is talking about the hymn to Pan, which is Rabbit Crowley's as Crowley's eulogy at his funeral and in Hastings. But just briefly, it's talking about about the AA, the what's the AA, the argentium astrom right, this the silver silver serpent, yeah, which is in the remember that was in the ninth Gate also remember yeah, yeah, when she had that tattoo.

It talks about what it's talking about the rights. This is about Victor Neuberg. This is when Crowley like went to the desert with Victor Neuberg and horrify

him. It says Norberg, in turn, was assigned the draining task, an act of magical equal equilibration of hurling himself into physical movements such as to dance down the gods, which is similar to what you're talking about here, there was tragically a lasting cost to pay, which one may attribute to the magical efficacy of the rights or to the strength of Neuberg's belief in them as

one likes. According to Neuburg, during one performance of the Right of Luna's is the Right of Luna, Crowley forgetfully, forgetfully failed to pronounce the words to release Nouberg from his possession by the lunar planetary spirit, and Nouberg tried to remedy the damage by later pronouncing the words himself, but to no avail. This is when he drove the guy crazy in the desert. And that's a really sad story too. In reliance, Yeah, like he did to

that boy. Yes, And and it talks about the also the rights of a Lusis, which was flashed out in August and September nineteen ten. AA membership was expanded with this, And then this is leading into in the rights of pan The cup of Libation was passed exclusively amongst the participant A members on stage. It's possible but not certain, that it contained peyote. And then it goes on to talk about Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, and then let's

see on pitch two thirty four. Here he talks about Oto and the two most memorable works of the summer where the hymn depand and the gnostic mass that he created. So it is the he composed this is his own poems to Pan tied him with Oto when he was creating this gnostic mass, which is tied him with the what was the one that he did at at Lochness, the the rights that he couldn't he stopped in the middle of and that so it was remember he did he did this mass in the middle of uh Lock

his hall on Lockness, which burned just a few years ago. And then they said, or somebody bought that manner like Jimmy Yeah, it was Jimmy Page bought it. Jimmy Page bought that. And he bought the Equinox bookstore and all of Crowley's esoteric all of his as the largest book collection of Crowley's. He also owned Crowley's one of his estates on the Thames outside of London. But but the house burned a few years ago, and then of course

they said Lockness was created. The Lockness monster was a product of his of one of his gnostic masses. Yeah, I've heard that before. So and you mentioned Pompey last time, and I found this picture of Pan from Pompey. Can you see that? Yeah, pretty graphic him and a goat, yes, and that and actually that ties in to Ovid, which because the book The Great God Pan and and also what you were just talking about with the oto rights tie takes its cue from Ovid's Metamorphosis, so in book one

because because oh my god, there's so much with this. So so the oto Oteo rights and the Great God Pan led me to the poem by Elizabeth Barrett Browning which was about which is about Pan walking along the banks of the river and then picking the reads and and then that is from Ovid's Metamorphosis, and it's it's the hit. It's the it's the myth where Pan is walking along and sees Syrinx and attempts to r ape her, and then she turns into a read right in the river. So then that's where he gets his

pan pipes. So so when he plays the pan pipes, it's supposed to be a recreation of the myth of his act of rape of Syrinx, and so did he kill her? Then in the well here she was a read. Did he chop her down and make pipes out of her? Well, here's what it says. So it says, it's I'll try to I'll try to paraphrase, because it's not that long, but I'll try to paraphrase this this part, it says Mercury told this story. This is in book one

of Ovid. It says, in the chill mountains of Arcadia E there lived a nymph, the most famous of all the wood nymphs of Nana Chris. The other nymphs called her Syrinx. Many a times she had eluded the pursuit of satyrs and other spirits who haunt the shady woodlands of the fertile fields. She was a follower of the Ortygian Goddess, imitating her in her pastimes and

in her virtue too. When she had her garments caught up out of the way for hunting, as Diana wears hers, she could easily have been mistaken for Leto's daughter, save that her bow was of horn, dianas of gold. And even in spite of this, she used to be taken for the goddess. As she was returning from Mount Lysias Pan caught sight of her, Pan, who wears on his head a wreath of sharp leaved pine, and he spoke these words. Mercury still had to tell what Pan said to the

nymph. And now she, scorning his prayers, ran off through the pathless forest till she came to the still waters of sandy laid on. When the river halted her flight, she prayed her sisters of the stream to transform her. And when Pan thought that he had at last caught hold of searings, he found that instead of the nymph's body, he held a handful of marsh reads. As he stood sighing, the wind blew through the reeds and produced a thin, plaintive sound. The god was enchanted by this new device,

and by the sweetness of the music. You and I shall always talk together, so he cried. And then he took reads of unequal length and fastened them together with wax. These preserved the girl's name. So that's how he gets his pan pipe, by the attempted rope of this nymph. Yeah, and who transforms. Oftentimes in the myths, people will transform into various natural objects of trees or whatever to escape, you know, a body harm or

bodily justice. And then so Pan recreates his you know, with playing the music, playing her as the music. Yeah, I was just gonna say, that's not the only story in Greek mythology where like you said, they're trying to get away from the rape of the gods, like especially Zeus, right, and they turn into a bowl or something else, or even Medusa, you know, the snakeheaded lady. She was just trying to avoid some non consensual intimacy, right, right, and that's how she got her snakeheads.

So yeah, the pantheon is full of perverts, right, sure, for sure. Yeah, And so we're talking about Pan. He is the taker of innocence literally, right. He represents virility for hundity in transformation. They call him both the giver and taker of life, so he can be a like, you know, a representation of abundant nature or nature that destroys like a storm, a flood or whatever. He's all of it. He's all, yes, he's all. And that's that's mentioned that's mentioned in the

Great God Pan in the book as well. There's a part of him being the giver and the taker, and that's of course we're tie in with the Oto ritual right with the Yoni and the and the Krawley and stuff. Yes, exactly, Yoni. Good word, Okay, so let's get right into it. The Great God Pan This was written in eighteen ninety and I it was kind of fun because it's like it's written in the style of you know, antique Blair Witch project or something where its found manuscripts and diaries and so

found footage and plus a little narration mixed together. But you really have to read closely and put all the clues together to figure out who is what and what's going on. Yeah, you do, especially with like the Latin epigraphs that are sort of sprinkled throughout. And then you realize that by wanting to trans because they give you no translation, so by the act of translating it yourself, then you realize that you're tied into the narrative and into the detection

story. Good point. I did go and translate it myself. I put all those Latin words in Google and yeah, he got it. So Mockin the author of this, Arthur Mockin. HP Lovecraft admired him. Dar Alan Poe. He was good friends with A. E. Waite of the famous Golden Dawn and the Tarot Deck. He did not join the Golden Dawn, however, and this book is more of a critique. Actually, I'm like the Libertine writers like Oscar Wilde and well like that. Yeah, so he

would be a contemporary of wild for sure. I think he, Yeah, I think he. It's there's something that's inherent in a lot of these Nights, especially in the Night late nineteenth century writers, where they have a Poe sort of cadence to the way that they write. I mean, Poe died in eighteen forty nine, but you can see that even Poe takes his sort of cadence from like he's trying to write formally, but he he'll reuse diction,

you know, he'll he'll reuse specific terms throughout stories. But but I see a lot of there's some of William Wilson in this as well, which William Wilson is post short story about a doppel a guy follows a guy around a city and like and literally meets himself in the city, and and there's a lot of the the uh, there's a lot of I don't know, phenomenological and phantasmagorical images in this that are straight out of it even the way

that he, you know, the nineteenth century, you would write MS for manuscript I found, I found the MS. Right yeah, yeah, yes, totally. So in this we're going to see some platonic ideas of the spirit world beyond the veil, being more real than the real world, right, yes, And we talked about that last time. So uh, like you think of that old artwork of the alchemist peering piercing the veil. He's got his head outside and his foot in the mundane world, but he can

see the whole galaxy. This is what we're gonna be talking about in this book. So the world of the phenomena that we can see. They're going to explain the first chapter that this is a pale shadow of the world of ideas, right, and you can transcend the world of shadows and directly access

the world of ideas through certain magic rituals. And doctor Raymond this is what he attempts to do through science, what the ceremonial magician would try to be doing with magic circles and spells, right, which is very nineteenth century right, hobably, Yeah, it's very much propulous too, right, Yeah, tying in tying in science and the occult and one thing, and you always

get the scientists who want to experiment with their own things. By the way, in this, you know, it's it's like it's like in bram Stoker's Dracula, even in the book, where you know the doctor is inside and he's like, well, I had to give Renfield, you know, a strong magical dose of morphine, which then I then administered to myself just for good measures. Yeah. So they're trying to directly access this like neo platonic

world, the one through the brain, through modification of the brain. And we're also going to see some Victorian ideas of horror, which would be de evolution, so that when evolution was just coming into its peak, right, and so the opposite of that would be a horror devolving back into animal or amba or slime or muck right right, you know, like kafka or something, you know, going back into a Yeah. So, yeah, these are letters and diaries and a little bit of narrative. So let's get right

in it. So it starts out this young man, mister Clark, is visiting this old doctor, this old scientist, right, and the old scientist is telling the young man, I have been voted myself to transcendental medicine, right, and some people think I'm a quack in a charlatan and an imposter, but he thinks he's on the right path. So right away we have you know, doctor Frankenstein, yes, rot Wang. Who else archetype can

you think of? Well, definitely Frankenstein because this this is like a huge section of the Frankenstein novel because the young man, you know, Victor Frankenstein, at the beginning, first he suffers this traumatic shock of his mother dying, and then he goes and he's you know, he's apprentice to this alchemist and he's learning that, you know, the secrets of the universe through alchemy, you know, but it's a it's a secret. This is a secret

knowledge and it's but it's tied. It's sort of in the language of scientific research. And then he discovers electricity, and then he and then he starts playing there's a large section of the book where he's he's playing around with uh

in the morgue and he starts assembling body parts. And when I did the analysis of that, I saw it as you know, again, my my take with that whole novel was that people people will often say, you know, like when you go to the Halloween party and it's like, well, I'm Frankenstein and they're like, no, that was the doctor, you're the monster. But in the book it's made clear to me that there's a fusion.

There's first, there's a split, so there's an elect he goes through a sort of electroshock therapy that he administers on himself and he splits into this beast man that he then reassembles spiritually and in terms of the body parts into this other creature. So the rest of the novel has spent he has spent

chasing himself. He's trying to find his own psyche and and oftentimes in movies, you know, they'll show it that, you know, Frankenstein looks out the window and he's in the Arctic and he sees a beast running, but you never see that with other There are never other characters present when he does that. But it's like to me, it's like we're getting a mirror, you know, a window into himself where for instance, when he kills people,

he doesn't realize that it's just his altar doing it. But suffice to say, how is it related to this, Well, again, we have somebody who is you know, it's the secret hidden knowledge, and it's tied in with science, and we're going to find the We're going to find the secrets to the universe through this revealed through the newest, you know, scientific methods. And one thing, not to give anything away with this, but one thing that I really like about this book is that it sort of plays

it plays on what is truly horrific. One is the unknown, you know, and the and this and this sort of spiritual element of encountering something in the you know, I mean, he mentions the abyss many times in this you know, encountering an other. And the other is the just the look on a person's face when they've encountered such a thing. So we don't need extraneous elements to deal with that. We just see the look of shock on

the person's face and that's enough to horrify the onlookers in the book. And at the end of chapter one, that's exactly what happened. So the look on her face was yes, terrifying, right, Yes, yes, he says, yes, said the doctor. It's a great it's a great pity. She is a hopeless idiot. Yes, however, it could not be

helped. And after all, she has seen the great God pan right, So part of this is madness, just like when you see the abyss or when you do these magic Ritchell's like you're talking about and you do it incorrectly, you can lose your mind. So and this is all having to do with the ideas of the matrix. Also, like, because they're talking about the real world, is just this matrix that we can manipulate, Like Neo, if we can pierce the veil and see the god pant, Yeah,

if you could break on through to the other side man exactly. And so he does this uh proscedure. He says, A slight lesion in the gray matter, that is all. Oh, and let's not forget the person that he is experimenting on is his servant girl of course, right, an orphan who he raised in his household. So he thinks that he can do whatever

he pleases with her anatomy. So he says, a slight lesion in the gray matter is all a trifling rearrangement of certain cell a microscopial alteration that would escape the attention of ninety nine brain specialists out of a hundred, so we're already getting into like Monarch and Kaletra stuff. Yes, slitting the psyche. Also, that reminds me of doctor Jacqueline mister Hyde. So the type of psychic fractures are older than even World War Two. Yeah, it's in Doctor

Jacquelin mister Hyde. I can't help but think that that Lewis Jolly and West read this book and was like, oh, yeah, this is it, baby, this is what I want to do. Nor McDonald had a good joke about the guy who invented the lobotomy where he said that this great scientific hero died a hundred you know, one hundred years ago today he invented a procedure where he made a slight slit into the gray matter and scrambled the brains. He'll be sorely missed, right, Yeah, this guy's a total monster

and you certainly see that. Yeah, like we said in Frankenstein and Doctor Jacquelin mister Hyde, and I was just I just did this chaos stream about Cia and Charles Manson where Lewis Jolly and West is Tom O'Neil sort of implies that it's Lewis Jolly and West who did these experiments on the ones that we know about, right, which is like when he met with Jack Ruby and and and and Charlie Charlie Manson, but also with these other characters like this

guy Jimmy Shaver who had done this horrible thing to a well, he'd done a horrible thing on a at Lackland Air Force Base. And it turns out that he had probably been a patient of Lewis Jolly and West before that, even though they bring in Jolly and West to to check him out psychologically afterwards, and then they look for the files and his last name Shaver, and

the s files are seemed to be missing. So right, there's a great I just want to point out on page four, like the language of this is really great because on page four there's he sort of mentioned he has a way of mixing Shakespeare and later Crowley. You know Crowley would read this and this is Crowley's and well I think there was a coded name for him in

this. In a couple of minutes, all I'll see if you three with me, Al Cowley, yes, Oswald Prois, oh oh of course, yeah, yeah, no, he Crowley did have I mean he had a number of names, right, Pertabo master Theian. But I feel like Oswald was one of them. And also I can picture him writing his you know, he always had like phallic and yoni signatures, and his pervert signature, and his the way he wold his name. But on page four here it says it's people should read this book. It's very short. It says,

I stood here one evening. It was a summer evening in the valley looked much as it does now. It's the bottom of page four. I stood here and saw before me the unutterable, the unthinkable gulf that yawns profound between two worlds, the world of matter and the world of spirit. I saw the great, empty, deep stretch dim before me, and in that instant a bridge of light left from the earth to the unknown shore, and the Abyss was spanned. Yeah, that's that's Meltonian. I mean, that's Meltonian

language. That's crossing the Abyss. And then later with Crowley talking about meeting Quranson, Yes, and later on it's going to connect to Nodens. The gotta be abyss, right, right, that's is that the goat? Is that the goatman you talked about last week? The goat fish. No,

that's Capricorn. Oh yeah, that gave me the creepy So Nodens is known for his lightning flash and what I got in my mental imagery when he was talking about that is the synopsis between brain cells use electricity to communicate and fire to you know what I mean. So what he's seen is a great expanse. It could be a giant brain with the electrical impulses going between synapsis and connecting those and that's what he thinks he's going to do with this operation.

Yeah, and you're you're so right page six of the book. You see that parchment Oswald Crollius. Yeah, and then he says, but to justify that that it's not just a random name thrown in because inevitably somebody will say, well, what's that evenue with Crowley. No, he says he was one of the first to show me the way, although I don't think he ever found it himself. That is a strange saying of his. In every grain of wheat there lies hidden the soul of a star, which is like

every man and every woman is a star exactly. That's great. Wow, that's good find. So doctor Raymond, the Mad Scientists has invited this young man named mister Clark to witness this brain surgery. Doctor Raymond fancies himself like a sort of pioneer, really a psychonaut, delving into the abyss of gray matter and nerve cells in the brain. And he talks about He says, I'm perfectly instructed as to the possible functions of those nerve centers. With a

touch, I can say I can set free the current. With a touch, I can complete the communication between this world of sense and dot dot dot. So he's already talking about manipulating uh, your perception of this world and the spirit world by brain surgery, right right, which yeah, which is a lot like I mean, Jay and I did Wizard of Oz and returned to Oz, and it seems like returned to Oz especially is like a metaphor.

Uses that as a kind of metaphor, like the lightning storm is the electric shock table that they put her on at the beginning, we see like lightning flashes. They're manipulating the brain going into another world, piercing the veil. Good point, and so he says, it will leve level utterly the solid wall of sense and probably for the first time since man was made a spirit will gaze on a spirit world, Clark, Mary will see the god

pain. And then this is so weird. I don't know if you caught this, but the next sentence right after that, it says Clark is talking to doctor Raymond, and Clark says, but you remember what you wrote to me. I thought it would be requisite that she and he stops and he whispered the rest into the doctor's ear, and they never go back, or they never say what was the requisite that she I don't know if they're talking

about her being a virgin or something. Yeah, I suppose that would be it, right, So he says, the doctor says, oh, never mind about that. It's better as it is. I'm certain of that. So this might be a clue when it comes out later that we'll get to that, okay, So just keep that in your mind, right, because you never explained that. And then he talks about how he rescued this girl from the gutter from certain starvation when she was a child. I think her

life is mine to use as icy fits. So there is his uh moral compass right there, right, and which, by the way, ties into Peter Pan right, because we're talking about orphans and Peter Pan chasing his own shadow, flying, flying from one from the flying from the I guess you could say the figurative world of Neverland or the other world across the ocean back into you know, the big smoke London through the window and then chasing his own shadow. And he's an orphan And that ties in with I mean Hook,

which we're gonna talk about. I know it plays a big that's a major part of the motif in that film. Yeah, the orphanage. So they do talk about that the operating table was a stone slab, like how horrific yet right, right, And then when the doctor's mixing toget the anesthesia or whatever it's gave this like super odd odor that reminded Clark of a encounter

that he had with the Devil or with Pan when he was young. So here's the theme that Pan is a generational thing because Peter Pan comes to visit you generation after generation, right, yes, And Hook said, remember Hook says, Captain Hook says that I'm going to keep coming back to you generation after generation, to all of your children. Yeah, if you go to the doctor's office and you smell listen, folks, I went to the doctor's

office. I smelled sulfur and brimstone. It was terrible. I said to myself, Why is my doctor putting me on a stone slab with spirals all around? It's very strange, it's very odd. Yeah, maybe that's not the right doctor. Oh I forgot. We're going to talk about Panslaver and tonight. Yeah. Yeah, because the same thing occurs in that. Yes,

yes, so Clark. He passes out because of the smell of the like chemicals, and he dreams of the day that he met Pan, when the temperature was so tropical, and he dreamt of a moment in time he stood face to face with a presence. It was neither man nor beast, neither neither living nor dead, but all things mingled, the form of all things, but devoid of all form. And in that moment the sacrament of body and soul was dissolved, and a voice seemed to cry, let us

go. Hence, and then the darkness of darkness beyond the stars, the darkness of everlasting. So their clear night of Pan. Right, yeah, he is this where he ends up on the bottom of page eight, there's this great part where he says, I turn on Mike little he says, and the wood. I know you've gotten this part. But Clark, in the deep folds of dream, was conscious that the path from his father's house

had led him to an undiscovered the undiscovered country. So when he says the undiscovered country, that's that's a hamlet reference from from Once No Traveler Returns. He's talking about death there undiscovered country, and he was so, but continuously in this it's the metaphor that you see Pan at the moment of ecstasy before death, and then you go into the great beyond of death, which is

the shimmering abyss of hell. I suppose in this, when suddenly, in place of the hum and murmur of the summer, an infinite silence seemed to fall on all things in the wood was hushed. Course, it's the wood, because Pan lives in the wood. And for a moment in time he stood face to face there with a presence that was neither man nor beast, neither the living nor dead, but all all all things, mingled the form

of all things, but devoid of all form. And in that moment the sacrament of body and soul was dissolved, and the voice seemed to cry, let us go hence. Yeah, that's that's great. Yeah, you just read the part about let us go hence and it gives way to the most awful terror. M god. Yeah. So he brings the girl in for the procedure, and Clark is waking up from his vision. Yeah, and he brings around her. Name's Mary, of course, yeah right, virgin Mary. Yeah, but maybe not. And then he the doctor's like,

are you willing to trust yourself to me entirely? And she says, oh, yes, of course, give me a kiss before you begin, and so the doctor kisses her. So this is weird, weird stuff going on between Mary and old psychonaut doctor. Yes, this this reminds me of have you seen that movie A Dangerous Method? David Cronenberg. It's about Freud and

Young and their relationship with each other. Viggo Mortenson and Michael Fassbender and Michael Fastbender gets this patient who's Kia Knightly and she's like this, she's like a schizophrenic orphan and he ends up doing pervert things. What's it called. It's called A Dangerous Method. Okay, it's pretty good film. I mean it's a it's a you know, the whole thing centers around his perversion with this this patient of his. But he's like, oh, you know, it's

therapeutics that I enact the things that she wants me to enact. Yeah, like some Kinsey therapy, right, right, So yeah, he puts her asleep. It says she crosses her arms on her breast like a little child about to say her prayers. So this is also an esoteric thelemic mm HMMA virus. Right. Yeah, I just realized also that Wendy is Mary, right, She's Wendy Moira. What's her name, Wendy, Wendy Moiler Angela Darli Right, Moira is a Irish form of Mary. Oh is it?

Yeah? Oh? Okay? And yeah, because when we talk about Peter Pan and Wendy the twenty twenty three one, this was all about her. Really, this is all about her coming of age, Yeah, her awakening, and that's really when Pan goes for you, is when you blossom into a woman. Yeah. I got a lot of things to say about that one. So so they do this procedure on for Mary, the servant girl, the little gutter snipe that he rescued from Victorian England. And I'm here,

I'm here to rescue you. Yeah, it's gonna be great. I'm gonna give you a good life. A stone slab just totally scramble your brains for a second. So it works. And when they come back to see her, it says she's lying wide awake, rolling her head from side to sign, grinning vacantly and looking like just a terror. I mean that gave me a chill, Actually it was. The old stuff is a lot scarier

sometimes than the new. It is, yes, because again there's no extraneous it's all about the imagery, like the simple imagery, and the psychology, well not not in terms of psychological terms, but in terms of like what your brain is is seeing as you're engulfed into the narrative because we're again.

One of the things about this is that even though it's a kind of a disparate narrative, like they're various voices and we're finding things, the reader is brought along into finding these like various artifacts, as if we're the detective, so that when you come across them, you're led into this place where you want to see what's around the corner, and then when you see it, you're oh my god, yes, yes it is it's worse. So it worked, and it said it is a great pity. She is a hopeless

idiot. However it could not be helped. And after all she has seen the great God pants right, So poor Mary, that was her fate h turning into a grinning crazy Do you remember that movie The People on the Stairs and that the lady they had to take care of it. It reminded me of there's a lot of the Ripper in this. There's a lot of Jack the Ripper in this because he mentions eighteen eighty eight and there's a white chapel. He mentions that if I think it's three different references in this book too,

Ripper. But I remember at the end of From Hell or and No midway through, when you know Ian Holme is doing the the lobotomy on the girl, and she's the girl that has seen who the Ripper really, so she's in a sense she's seen the same thing. She has seen, this

hellish version. That's what he wants to enact as this Masonic you know ritual where she's like meeting her her fate and he is the agent of fate here, right, and then he lobotis, lobotomizes her, So she's stuck there forever and she's like this whimpering idiot left in the a bail and all the scientists are like, oh, very good. Yeah yeah, don't an old chap as you've done it, We're gonna oh okay. So chapter two is all about mister Clark in his past. So he had a vision of Pan

in the childhood. Now he's obsessed with stories about the devil and he tries to stop himself, but he just cannot keep himself from collecting all of these

accounts of people seeing the Devil or Pan. And one of the stories that he has in his collection is about a girl named Helen V. So Helen V was It just jumps into like another story and you have no idea how this connects to what just happened with the Mary and the lobotomy, right right, But so now you're reading the story about Helen V. Who showed up in a village under peculiar circumstances and was given to some a off to parents

to raise when she became of age because they wanted to socialize her, right right, So they gave her to some foster parents, and weird things start happening in this village. One was a little boy sees Helen V in the woods with a man, and he what he saw caused him to have a nervous breakdown. Right, the little boy, yeah, yeah, he was horrified at hearing the most dreadful screams, evidently the results of a great terror.

The little boy was running headlong, was evidently terribly frightened, And on questioning him, the man elicited that after picking a posy of flowers, he felt tired and laid down on the grass and fell asleep, and he's playing on Helen V. Was playing on the grass with a strange naked man. He said, he felt dreadfully frightened and ran away, crying for his father,

Joseph. Joseph Dubbs proceeded in the direction indicated by his son and found Helen V. Sitting on the grass in the middle of a glade or open space left by charcoal burners. And then it was a strange man. And then the bottom of that paragraph. He became nervous and strange in his manner, refusing to leave the cottage by himself, and constantly alarming the household by waking in the night with cries of the man in the wood, father father,

Oh my gosh. Yeah, so this is kind of like the Village era, right, Yes, And what Helen b does is goes out all day long and stays in the woods and comes back, you know, at dark. And that's all she does. And a person who gave her to the foster parents said, just let her do whatever she wants and I'll pay you handsomely to just you know, house her. Yeah, this is like

it's like, it's like the Village. It's like the Crucible at the beginning of the Crucible because the whole story starts because the town puritan preacher is walking along looking for he's looking for his girl that he took in, who is his niece that he like, there's a lot of innuendo in it, and he is watching her from the bushes and she's with the group of women and then they see, you know, they see him with Tituba Tituba from Barbados,

and she's cutting the chicken and rubbing blood all over themselves and then they're dancing over a magic circle and then over the over the fire and then when he catches her, then she goes catatonic. That it's also the same By the way, I just rewatched The Witch and which has which has a pan black Philip goat figure in it who turns into Lucifer. And there's a scene in that where the father says, we got to get well, what's the what's the girl's name in it? We have to get her, he says,

we have to get her out of here. We have to get her. We have to hire her out to one of the other families in town. They'll take care of her. So it's like, again, you're gonna have this this girl who's like good, They're gonna sort of orphan her and then sell her to another group because of the horror that she's witnessing, which is after the baby gets taken in the Witch. So it's sort of the

same. It's the same thing. You go out in the woods, you see the pan satan figure in the woods playing around with the witches and taking people. You get horrified, and then you sell the kids off. I suppose what I like those movies because part of the horror is just how they had to survive back then, right, just how like Bare Bones you had to chop down the trees to make your house and just yeah, in the cold winter, and it just adds a whole layer of horror and uncomfortability to

it. It does. And also because especially the Puritan ones, it's like the beginning of the move of the Witch's he's too Puritan for the Puritan government group in the town. He's like, you, no, you're not doing it right. We've come across the ocean and we didn't like how you did it, So we're going to go out on our own, right. But the woods is where the devil lives for them, and so they're already they're already oppressed by the fact that like they're they're it's like they're a mini cult

within themselves, right, Yeah, cult within a cult. And how alstra Parli's dad was because he was a plymouth Brethren's right, so weird culty pilgrim people. Yeah, nothing is ever pure enough for that. Yeah. They needed to just come down here to Virginia, all right. It would have been a lot it would have been a lot different, you know, down here in Virginia in Jamestown, right, They it was all about they were

making money, right, they're working for the Virginia Company. And then they all started cannibalizing each other because they could they were like, you know, what, what are we gonna do? You know, the city engines, And then John Smith got here and said, look, you people are perverted, like this is freaky. All right, Look here's how it's gonna be. Don't if you don't work, then you don't eat and everything else.

We're just gonna survive and make our stuff. We're not going to be We're not going to be culty out here, right, there's not gonna be any like going out into the woods. And you're more hardcore than the rest of us. You're gonna stay within the limits of the town and we're gonna you know. But what's interesting too about this book is like it's on the cusp of like the scientific revolutions and going away from spiritualism to materialism and just stark

like what you can see is matter and that's it. But already we're marrying technology to black magic and devil and also like nature worship, right right, I guess and Helen she's called Helen, I guess how she feeling like, I suppose she's like Helen of Troy. So so Helen is taken from Agamemnon and taken to Troy, right where she's sort of worshiped like a goddess and is the cause of war. So that gets transposed into their into war in

themselves, I suppose. But Allen is an object of beauty in other words. Well, speaking of that, they are linking a lot of these things to the Roman times because the village was by a Roman old Roman wall or boundary. And then when the little boy who saw her with pan If he's having these nervous breakdowns and they take him to the doctor's house and he sees

the statue of pan and like loses it. Yeah, and they're like, oh, we just excavated this like from an old like not too long ago, and so it's almost like Puzuzu powers yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. If you're excavating and you find a statue of this devil man, just put it back. No smash it, just smash the damn thing. So there's that story. And then so Clark is going through all of these papers of like, uh, the X files. Right, He's got a bureau

of X files that he's going through. So now we're reading these X files. Another file was about a girl, and so you're saying bat boy is real. Bat boyle kills Gully. Remember I tweeted, I tweeted at him when I stawt of Twitter, I tweeted at him afterwards that show, that episode was on television. I tweeted him you saying bat Boy is real. He loved it. Goat Boy is real. Yeah. Yeah, So Helen B grows up a little bit. She gets a friend who's about her age.

They're staying they're about what like fifteen sixteen ish made an age and Helen B takes her friend into the forest and to get h. M. L. E. Steed by Pan. Yeah right, this is this is Pan Pans Labyrinth, by the way, I mean that's that's the Romans, because

in Pans Labyrinth they're the Roman Ruins. Yeah, and she she immediately when they get to the place where they are for the you know, the fascists go up and they're whatever, they have their little place, the phylangists, and then she immediately sees the Roman Ruins and walks into it, into the labyrinth and then there it's almost like he is walking through a labyrinth. The man in the wood grotesque appearance, the owner of the house. Uh,

well that's what you just read here. Yeah, but I might note it was at the top of the page was sra a monarch Kathy O'Brien. Okay, yeah, EXCESSI Helen was known in the village for excessive liberality, and the impression was general that she would one day inherit a large sum of money

from the relative and then takes her into the woods. Yeah. So at this point the reader does not know what Helen has to do with Mary, right, And then at the end of this chapter, the Helen's friend disappears or her mom finds her in the bed with her her skirt up that she has been taken advantage of by Pan, and then she disappears. And then at the end is this Latin. Yeah, a diabolis incarnate st at homo factus est, which is and a devil was made incarnate and a human being

was produced. So this is very Rosemary's baby, it is. And that's also that the Elizabeth Barrett Browning Palm, the great God Pan is dead and I wrote atavistic reversion to ancestral antique and primordial also on that facing page on page twenty. It's just interesting to look at the language because because it is like you're reading Twilight language. Because we're talking about a book where we're talking about two world two different worlds, you know, a literal and a figurative

here and now and a spiritual world that's beyond the veil. It's interesting to look at some of the language and how it adds up, like when you just look at Oh, you can't really see that when you look at the page. Just the verbs in that one paragraph live, die, struggle, conquer, fail, fall, grieve, suffer, m nightmare, Yeah, unspeakable elements and throned as it were, and triumphant and human flesh mhm. Oh. And this is foreshadowing. This is foreshew. It's foreshadowing that Pan

has what did I write? Oh, that he has Well, I don't want to give away what happens in the book, but foreshadowing is something that happens that Pan is done in this sex magic ritual. Yeah. Okay, So now we're getting to chapter three where some more characters are introduced. So many characters k Billier, Wattam and Charles Herbert. So these are two Dandy's well one Villier. He's just like a man about town, right, He's like you're Dorian Gray or I'm a Jack the lad yeah, and noticed at

the bottom of that page. I couldn't help but think that of the part with an animal lecture, because it talks about Villiers had emerged from his restaurant and after an excellent dinner of many courses, assisted by his ingratiating little flask of keyanti. Yeah, he did what did you call it? A foppish

Yes, he's a foppish dandy man, Foppish dandies. And he is just finishing his fine meal and he comes out and he runs into like a homeless beggar, and he recognizes him as somebody who he graduated with not too long ago from university. So he's like, how did I end up here? And you ended up there? Right? Well, the world needs ditch diggers too, I suppose. Come to find out, he was red pilled when he met Helen V. And Helen VU corrupted his soul. Right, So

the homeless beggar man married this Helen lady, all right. And he said she spoke of things which even now I would not dare whisper in the blackest night, not in your most fantastic, hideous dreams. Can you have imagine forth the faintest shadow of what I've heard and seen so he's seen some shit. Yeah right, I've seen some stuff, man, and heard some shit.

He bought that thousand yards stare of you know, post traumatic stress disorder, just from being married to this Helen And she was a ruined man. I mean he was a ruined man in a year because she took it all from him and left him and left him haunted. And he does not even think of her as human. I was a foolish I was a foppish dandy of the nth degree until I met this Siza. Yes, that things. He doesn't ever blink again. Page twenty three. Also it talks about London

has been called the city of encounters. It's more than that, it's the city of resurrection. And then on page fifty six, later on, jumping on, it'll call it. They'll call London the city of nightmares. Yeah, because he a haunted, haunted man who has seen hell. So then they're talking again about the bad odor that came from their house, from the homeless man and Helen Bee's house, they call it. They like to use the word queer in this book, in the in the weird way, in

the way that it means he was he was a queer fellow. He had an owner like Henry Lee Lucas. It was unmistakable. So him and Helen moved into this house. And then there's like dead bodies happening around the house. There's all this bad smells. People don't want to be friends with them. Everyone who saw her said she was at once the most beautiful woman and the most repulsive they had ever set eyes on. So there's another alchemical like

duality. Yeah, it sounds like Crowley's low La Zaza or whatever. Sounds like the scarlet women that he wanted, you know, beautiful, beautiful women that he then degrades into beasts. Well, not only that this book that I haven't done the Robin Show yet because I was not feeling good this week, but they talk about the law of reversion and the an ad that he put out for Scarlett in calling for ugly women, fat women, women with

scars, tattoos, colored women. Not that that's ugly, but he in the time, he was trying to think of anything that he was repulsed by, and he wanted to leave that in his ritual imagine answering the ad. Right, God, that's me, I'm ugly finally, so Helen is bad news. She stinks she's beautiful and ugly at the same time. And so now Villers and Clark, Villier not Villers and Clark, are friends somehow. So they're trying to figure out who is this total lady who was the downfall

of his college friend? Right? Is he Clark? Because it's like, I know this is English, but he said he was a pioneer. The other guy thought of himself as a pioneer. So it's kind of like this duo figure. So it's kind of a Lewis and Clark, you know, duo here. And then we have Villier the villain. He's not the villain,

but there's there's definitely a part on page thirty. This is the beginning of the Ripper connections that I saw in the book, because at the top of page thirty it says, but some very odd things came out about them. Though it was between five and six in the morning. The dead man was removed and a large crowd had collected and several of his neighbors ran to see what was going on. So he was removed, and then part of me at the bottom of the page, I know perfectly well what caused death.

Blank died of fright of sheer awful terror. I never saw features so hideously contorted in the entire course of my practice, and I've seen the faces of a whole host of dead. The doctor was usually a cool customer, enough in certain vehemence, and his manner struck me, but I couldn't get anything more out of him. That's the same thing that happens. I did it again. I did an analysis of Chack the for about a year ago, and that's the same sort of things that the investigators are saying when they

come upon the bodies. And then there are more references later on in the book, which we'll get to. What what what year was Jack the Rivers eighteen ninety eight, Yeah, and this was eighteen ninety so it was well known. Yeah, it's not fresh on everybody's mind. So then they introduced a couple more like characters. Austin a guy named Austin Billy are friends and they are kind of on the trail of like Helen V. And then this

other lady, Missus Beaumont m so. Missus Beaumont is known for like hosting weird dinner parties that everybody loved all of the gentry of London like to go to her weird dinner party. Yes, come to my salon. All the faults will be there. It's like I guess, I guess at the end of the Victorian era, you know, every sort of passion was was satiated. Right, So then they started to get into the occult. Yeah, and into you know, mixing electrical energy and the occult and these seances and

looking for something else to satisfy them because they had opium. Right, remember they remember they invented morphine as a cure for cocaine or was it love vice versa. One was an invented one was invented as a cure for the other. Right, Oh, your child is on morphine, Well take some cocaine. Right, And they you know, and they can do anything they want and have that they have all this money in this power and they owned you

know, a quarter of the globe. So at that point I guess they start getting into the occult, right, because they're just pushing boundaries of science and exploration and discovery and so what next is the spirit world? Because they've conquered you know, pretty much under that regime, what packs Britannica at that time, like, yeah, there was nowhere else to go. Yea.

So one scene in this book they are looking at some artwork of somebody who has had a run in with this lady, and it says in the frightful Waltzburgus Night of evil, strange, constrous evil, that the dead artist had set forth in hard black and white, the figures of fawns and satyrs and ag pants danced before his eyes. So I had to look up what an ag pan was, and that is the capricorn. Yeah, that's the goat

fish. Yeah, yeah, danced before his eyes, the darkness of the thicket, the dance on the mountaintop, the scenes by the lonely shores and green vineyards, by rocks and desert places, a world before which the human soul seemed to shrink back and shutter. So coming into contact with this person has caused artists to go mad, little children to go mad, maidens to lose their virtue and disappear and die. Right, So, everybody who comes

into contact the person who has a terrible fate. Yeah, yeah, you would pass the rest of your life as I passed by a haunted man, a man who has seen hell. Yeah. So this poor guy. He is black pill. And then there's some more Latin in this chapter on page forty six. Okay, I'm talking about the universe is silent throughout the day and just basically like pan with the fish tails playing reef pipes. Mm hmm

right, oh yeah, okay, oh yeah. My note says, yeah the the aji Panem zodiac Capricorn, goatfish c f jamie reference I wrote. I wrote, Uh, let's see, the universe is lifeless at day, but the secret is not without horrors at night fires shine. Yeah, this is the this is from this paragraph. The the a japanis, Oh, this is the this is the Latin inscription. Oh yeah, I'm just translating it now. Yeah yeah see La paradam universus. Yeah so so I don't

know what what you're translation was. The universe is lifeless at day, but the universe is not without horrors at night, fires shine. The a japanis uh uh, I couldn't read my writing here. Resounds everywhere. The melody of the flutes and the tinkling of the symbols are heard on the sea coast, which sounds like a which sounds like a almost like a stage in a ritual initiation. Well, speaking of that, the chapter six talks about So

we've got this lady Missus Beaumont that we're got our eye on. Now we've got Helen v We've got Mary the lobotomized girl, Clark Villier, and now we get Lord Argentine or Argentine favorite in London is byronic. Yeah, he was the foppiest of fops, right, But basically what they're saying is like anybody that goes to dinner at Beaumont's, Like all of these people who wouldn't be committing un ali being on themselves are doing this for no reason. And

it's like a rash of these in London. And I was gonna say it's also it's also we get these this variety of characters who represent the various levels of high society. Yeah, I'm mixed in with this and sometimes they are. I mean, this is byronic, he says, Lord argent Lord Argentine

was a great favorite in London society. At twenty he had been a poor man, decked with the surname of an illustrious family, but forced to earn a livelihood as best he could, and the most speculative of money lenders would not have en trusted him with fifty pounds on the chance of ever changing his name for a title and his poverty for a great fortune. That's Byron.

That's I mean, that's Byron to a T. Byron is the richest poor man, right, He's got he's got a name and a title, but he has no money, and he's subject to money lenders and and you know he's he ends up being finance by this weird in his real life. I did. There was a biography of Byron. He was financed by this weird society woman who hosted these salons and she was involved in oswatch Shut activities. And he writes her, yeah, that's her. Yeah, And he writes

letters to her saying like please, I don't want to do that. You know, I don't want to do this anymore. He doesn't say what that this is? Yeah, She's like, you must go you must do the thing. Yeah. People can go back and watch that Byron stream. But that's Byron too a T. Yeah. Is that on your channel? Yes?

Yeah. So the thing that I wrote about the Lord Argentine on Aliving was that they found him his body leaning forward at an angle from the bottom of the bed he had choked himself in the way that like Robin Williams was found and more people have been found like that, right, Yeah, it's not in the way of the total pervert thing, right, the guy from kill Bill was found. But it is which is the auto Dad? Yeah,

David Carradine, which which which? Again I hate to bring Norman to this again, but Norm McDonald says, the worst part about that is the fact that you do that and then you are found, so someone has to find you like that. Yeah, and they had to keep together what happened? Right? Right? Oh boy? But he is you know, you have found strangled I suppose, And and there was a coming up. There's

another one. I don't think it was this one, but there's another one in here that was just like I think it was at was Aldo Morow. Aldo Morrow was the guy that was involved with P two Lodge and the Vatican scandal. Was he the one that was found strangled in the Masonic ritual over the Thames? I don't know. I'm sure when this goes loud somebody will say who it was. But what about Captain Morgan? Didn't he have a bad like that for talking about masonry. I don't know, ap. I

thought it was just that. No, I was gonna make trying to make some stupid joke about spicy rum. No, I'm serious, Like he was a foppish character, though he was a very captain hook character. Yeah, he he did something they didn't like. I'll have to look that up again. So anyways, each of the people that did this had dined at her house the night before and no reason whatsoever. Right, but this is the Missus Beaumont who has taken London by storm. She would be called very handsome,

and yet there's something about her face which I didn't like. Well, spoilers ahead. Helen v Helen, the lady that ruined the college guy, Missus Beaumont are all the same, right, And then you come to find out that this was actually the daughter of Mary who got the lobotomy and saw a pant. So it's generational, yes, And one fifty one is a good descriptions talking about Lord Swanley, h was found one morning in his dressing room hanging from a peg a fixed to the wall. Again, there was

no explanation in either case, but a few bald facts. A living man in the evening and a body with a black, swollen face in the morning. That alone is that's yeah. The police have been forced to confess themselves powerless to arrest or to explain the sordid murders of White Chapel. There's your Jack the Ripper reference, and White Chapel is for the folks at home. White Chapel is a district in the East end of London where the Jack Ripper

murders took place. That's still there. Each of these men who had resolved to die a tortured, shameful death, was a rich, prosperous and to all appearances, in love with the world, and not the acutest research should fared out any shadow of a lurking motive in either case. And there's a fit. There's a victim of a fifth nameless tragedy which ties in with Jack

River. Again. It's like a the points of the pentagram. And then again we get this reiteration of this kind of phrase about discovering the dead body on the next page fifty two at the bottom. I never experienced such a feeling of horror as when I read the account of Argentine's death. I didn't understand at the time and I don't now. And then there's the there's the theory of acute suicide scidal mania. And then they say, as for the theory of mania, that is very well page fifty three. That is very

well, of course, for the coroner's journey. But everybody knows that it's all nonsense. S sidal mania is not smallpox. And then it talks about then it goes into the labyrinth. Austin tried to shake off the remembrance of tragedies as hopeless and perplexed as the Labyrinth of data Lists, and began to talk in different voice of the more pleasant incidents and adventures of the season. The Labyrinth of data Lists, of course, is in the in the Myths,

and is where data List is, you know. Data List makes his way through the labyrinth and uses the string to to track his way back. He creates the labyrinth, but at at the inside the labyrinth is the Minotaur, and the Minotaur. The Minotaur is a is a character as an archetype who sits in the abyss in Judgment in Dante's Inferno. He's in one of the circles of Hell, and so is Minos. Minos appears there as well,

so in other words, you're making your way through the labyrinth. But also, and that is going to happen with pet Pans Labyrinth, but is a way of talking about making your way through your psyche and through your you know, a spiritual journey through your spot, your psyche, finding of course the beast at the center of the thing. Right, So the labyrinth is like, yeah, you just said your psyche. And it always has to

do with girls coming of age. I mean the movie Labyrinth with Connelly classic right right, or Jack Torrence chasing Danny through the Labyrinth at the end of the Shining Yea where he is the mentaur in that. So let's skip to page sixty five where they're talking about Missus Beaumont's parties, and they're talking about

an account of the entertainment Missus Beaumont provided for her choice or guests. He says, his eye caught by a word and phrase that followed it, and sick at heart, with white lips and cold sweat pouring down like water from his temples, he flung the paper down. It doesn't really say what he read, but they said, is is horrible enough, but after all, it is an old story, an old mystery. Played in our day and in dim London streets instead of amidst the vineyards and the olive gardens. So

what do you make of that? Well, I think there's a continuous motif in this of people coming across artifacts like we mentioned, and then living art, you know, living or dead artifacts. That those are the terms mentioned in Donnie Darko that I just did. So I keep using artifacts, but faces, faces and pieces of paper that indicate absolute shock and horror at the thing that they're finding in the labyrinth. And again this also occurs, just

to jump back on page fifty eight. Why because it made my blood run cold to see that man's face. I could never have supposed that such an infernal medley of passions could have glared out of any human eyes. I almost fainted as I looked. I looked, I knew I looked into the eyes of a lost soul, that man no longer belonged to this world. It was a devil's face I looked upon. So the I suppose the paper that they're finding at this point is what's on the paper? Is it part of

the description of the ritual? At that point, I think it was her, a sketch of her face that they're putting two and two together like this is also this person or whatever? Right I wanted to ask you what the symbol was on page sixty five, So sixty five sixty six he says, we know what happened to those who chanced to meet the great God Pan, and those who are wise know that all symbols were symbols of something, not

of nothing. It was indeed an exquisite symbol beneath which men long ago veiled their knowledge of the most awful, most secret forces which lie the heart of all things. What do you think that symbol was? Because then they go on to talk about electric currents and such forces cannot be named, cannot be spoken, cannot be imagine, except under a veil and a symbol, A symbol to the most of us, appearing a quaint, poetic fancy to some a foolish tale. What do you think that symbol is? A terror that

may dwell in the secret place of life? I think that well. By alluding to a symbol and not naming the symbol, but then in the same paragraph talking about how symbols are symbols of something, not of nothing, it's interesting. There's a weird there's a weird play being there's something weird happening here in terms of the play on language and in terms of what we're supposed to

imagine. So this is one example of the book is great at showing us the thing, right, and they show us the horror, but they don't tell us an exposition what it is. And the rest of a lot of the book is exposition, but in terms of the actual horrific things. But this part it's it's like we get to a thing and they say that there's a symbol, it's a symbol of something, but then they don't show or

name the symbol exactly. It didn't describe what it's a yes, so it's supposed to be something that we can imagine, but we're left up to ultimate horror to be able to imagine what it is. It could be a number of things, but it's almost more horrific. What is it? I was thinking, symbol is it? It's the it's the anc. No, it's prince. Remember that symbol that he used artist, Yeah, yeah, yeah, which was which was like an anc with a little yeah. Well it

was like man and woman with a little swirly do see. I thought it was to me, if I imagine something like this, something that's commonplace, but it is supposed to be something that's even deeper, and I imagine the spiral, and and because I think that's that's so ingrained, I think once you cross a certain Okay, so in terms of if you are in this sort of circle of people, who are you know, reading this sort of stuff and in the general you know, conspiracy world, and you're reading about

those things, there's a point at which you can't return, right, And for me, that point is learning about the the PG the p Gate stuff and the conspiracy of silence. I don't want to say, but people know what that is. But when I see that, that to me is a commonplace symbol. And it's about energy, right. It's like a revolving hurricane, the swirling of the psyche inside the brain, the jumbling of the brain stew that the doctors are creating in these in these people, and also the

circles of hell. But it's swirling downwards. And it's also something that occurs in all It occurs in Pan's Labyrinth, it occurs in Hook. I didn't see it in Peter Pan and Wendy, but it's something that it seems to be indicative of the a sort of sex magic ritual tied in with you know, a hellish vision. Yeah, what about that? The black and white spiral of the hypnotists us. Right, it's kind of right, going, yeah, going down deeper into yourself, into the subconscious mind. Yeah,

I mean, what's worse than that? That is hell right? Yeah, being trapped inside your own mind like that. Yeah. So here at the climax of the story, the guys who figure out that Missus Helen v. Missus Beaumont, all of these people are the same. He says he's gonna go to her house, and he says, I shall offer her a choice alone with this chord in a locked room for fifteen minutes. If we go in it's not done, I shall call call the nearest policeman. That is

all. So there's really nothing in the storyline after that except for this papers by a doctor, the fragments of the doctor who witnessed what happened when they to confront Missus Beaumont, and the doctor says, I was privileged or a cursed to see that which was on the bed line. They're black like ink transformed before my eyes, the skin and the flesh and the muscles and the bones, and the firm structure of the human body that I had thought to

be unchangeable and permanent as adamant began to melt and dissolve. So this is what I was talking about in the beginning, the alchemical de evolution of Missus Beaumont back into goo or the primordial ooze of panspermia. Okay, right, And he says, I saw the form waiver from sex to sex, dividing itself from itself, and then again reunited. Then I saw the body descend to the beasts which it ascended, and that which was on the heights go

down to the depths, even to the abyss of all beings. Yeah, so down, so dissolving into the stidgy and blackness, Yes, of black, luminous hell, surrounded by the beasts of pandemonium. Right, all the devils are there, pan And yeah, even to the abyss of all being you said, also, of course, eighteen eighty eight is the manuscript on

page seven, page seventy. And one more thing, just in terms of the construction of the book, Like when you look at the book, just when you look at the page, see how the difference between this page and this page right here, And one of the one of the differences is that one thing that's pretty clever about this is that oftentimes, in literature, the great literature, has this synthesis of form and content. Form plus content equals

meaning. And it's almost more difficult to do in pros because in a poem you have the immediate construction of the form on the page, so like when you're looking at a sonnet, you have fourteen lines and you see it right on the page, or you have sesstats or you know. But in this in pros, where everything is thrown onto a page, it's more difficult to do, and it as to the meaning, relies more on the content.

But here what we see is that throughout the book, whenever we get when we know in a subtle way, when we're being led towards something horrific, because the paragraphs will often get longer and unbroken, and they'll either be short paragraphs with simple things, simple imagery, the simple horror of you know, of that we can't even expect, or they'll be longer, Like I wrote, longer paragraphs is unbroken, the unbroken sharing of the thought, of the

of the awful shock of black deeds and symbols. And again the word the word play like in that paragraph unknown goal, black, faded, grimed, black dust, winner, I saw what was required, dull street, quiet, no sunshine, no air. So in other words, the words almost pop out at you like like a code. But but it's carefully chosen. And even what you just read, you said the word adamant. The word yeah, permanent as adamant. Well, Adamant is related to like that's in

Paradise lost Adamantine chains. So sat Satan is like held down at the shores of the Lake of Fire in Adamantine chains. So they're they're permanent, they're they're unbreakable relating to adam they're they're from the beginning of creation. So they're they're they're they're unbreakable. That's where you get in the Marvel movies Adamantium. Oh yeah, okay, So but I thought it was you know, this is a well, this is a well done, a well done book.

I know there's more. There's the fragments and the hideous transformation. On page seventy and seventy two, it's almost like he sees a Batha mat exactly. Yeah, in the in the Abyss before Death, which is the Pan he sees the great god Pan, I suppose. Yeah, So what had happened was the guys went to confront Missus Beaumont. They convinced her to kill herself. And the interesting thing about this book is the main character you never hear from her. You never hear her speak. You only see the wake of

destruction that she has caused. So it's almost like just this force instead of an actual character. So is she like an avatar for Pan himself? You know, we never see him. Yeah, She's Pan's daughter, right of course, if you're reading it in a more materialistic way or like a rational way, you would read it as she's the daughter of the side scientists who impregnated Mary before he gave her the little botomy, because that would explain the

tender kisses and stuff. Look in his eyes, he's eyes, he has her hoofs Okay. So yeah, when the Missus Beaumont, Pan's daughter, Helen V kills herself, and the doctor had witnessed what happened when she was like morphing into the evolutionary goo. He says, I watched and at last I saw but a substance as jelly. I saw form shaped in dimness before me, which I will not farther describe. But the symbol of this form may be seen in ancient sculptures and in paintings which survived beneath the lava too

foul to be spoken of as a horrible and unspeakable shape. Either man nor beast was changed into human form. There came finally death. This is also like under the Skin. Yeah, I mean in that it's an you know, it's an alien ghoul demon, right, But she meets the guy in the woods. There's a scene at the end where she meets the guy in the woods. They're in They're in Scotland. She meets the guy in the woods and then she seduces him Scar Joe gets naked, and then she takes

off her human skin suit and she's the black goog ghoul. Yeah, and then it goes into the blackness of It's just like in Stranger Things with the upside down. There's the black pool and then like consumes his body as a shell and it just kind of floats like a ribbon. Yeah, So I suppose it's the same sort of I was gonna say that about Neverland too.

It is like the upside down in Stranger Things. Oh yeah, yeah, we'll get to that in a second, because yeah, okay, So in kind of like the epilogue or whatever, they talk about one of these guys going back to the village where Helen b grew up by the Roman walls, and it says, I looked over the middle where once had stood the older temple of the God of the deeps. It was the house where Helen lived.

And they're talking about a museum in that town containing Roman remains which have been found in the neighborhood, and a pillar with an ex An inscription to the Great God, notings the God of the Great Deep or abyss labs Selenist has erected this pillar on account of the marriage which he saw beneath the shade. What do you make of that? Well, the inscription reminds me of a cipher, you know, and it's like a coded cipher. And it's a monolith. I mean they find a monolith, right uh, And this

is you see the same thing walking into Pan's labyrinth. You see this sort of monolith appearing in the in the at the entrance way, at the entrance into the labyrinth, and you see the same oftentimes in like Nordic or or even in I want to I think it's in the in the Iliad, you see you see a monolith or like some sort of statue or something set up that's supposed to be in memoriam for somebody great. But in this it's it's it's the opposite. It's inverted world. Right. And and then we see

I talked to you beyond the shadows and of the god pin. You remember Mary, She was the mother of Helen Vaughan, who was born nine months after that night, so we know that it's the child of the what's the Christopher Lee movie? Is? Is it I the Devil one where he's doing the ritual? Yeah? Right, yeah, Human flesh may become the veil of horror. One dare not express. Helen Vaughan did was this page seventy seven in the middle of Helen Vaughan did well to bind the quarter about her

neck and die. That death was horrible, to black and face the hideous form of death. Strange hard that you witness surprises me but little. And now Helen is with her companions dot dot dot Yeah, in hell, Yeah, in hell, she's down there with Beelza blah. But I suppose I wonder why it was so easy for them to get her to do that. They never really said. I guess maybe life was just too big, she's bored of it, or I don't know, maybe she was tired of humans

and wanted to go back to Hell. I don't know. Yeah, she wanted to pierce the veil back to her hell world and hang out with her ghouls and goblins. Yeah. So the marriage which she saw beneath the shade, I don't know. Does that remind you of any mystery place? Well, I mean, yeah, isn't that. Well, the first thing I think of is the nymphs running wild in the shade in the buccanal right,

So it's it's an rg y, isn't it. And of course nymph is where we get the word nympho jack right right, And like we said in Alvid, you know Avid pursuing, you know, the fawns and the sayers that pursued this nymph, I guess in the shade of the shade of the Glady River, amazing meandering through the woodland, you know, and she transforms into a read Yeah, can you imagine reading this in the ladies, you know, you'd be like, oh, scandalous sounds just sounds like last night

Mary Winston salon the same thing. We just got back from hell Fire Club and uh yeah right, yeah. Benjamin Franklin was there. He loved the story. Yeah, hear that story about Ben Franklin having all those bodies buried in his house in London. Yeah, well that was a great god pant still some mysterious things in it, but I think we covered it pretty well. It was a really good horror novella. I could see why a lot of the horror writers look up to him. So let's continue down this labyrinth

spial spiral and talk about Pans Labyrinth two thousand. Yes, well, there's there's There's two things I was gonna just mention in terms of literary references before we get to those, because I think they're relevant. And one is I'll get to this one second, because it's the Queen mab speech for Rummy and Juliet. But the one that I really wanted to mention to bring into this, which might be too esoteric for people I don't know, but is I'll

just I'll just summarize the whole thing. Because it's in It's in Ted Hughes. It's in Ted Hughes's collected poems. He has a poem called Pan and then another one called Weigi and I originally found this in the journals of Sylvia Plath. And then there's a book called Winner Pollen, which is by Ted Hughes, and this is all of his Ted Hughes was the poet Laureate. He wrote the poem rain Charm for the Duchy, which was written for the

new the newly born Prince Harry in nineteen eighty four. And he was the Poet Laurean until nineteen ninety eight when he died. But he wrote a book called Birthday Letters, which was a kind of a revision of his life with Sylvia Plathith Sylvia Plath, it's a famous American poet who died at age thirty two in nineteen sixty three, I think. But so here's what happened. So so so everybody people probably know about Sylvia Plath, and and now she

you know, committed s side and in London. But there's a story that I read in her account in her journals about how Ted Hughes and Sylvia Plath were interested in esoterica and the occult, especially Ted Hughes, and and they would they started playing around with playing around with a Wuiji board, and eventually they realized they were talking to be like a being. They weren't just talking

to nothingness. They were talking to something with a voice. And of course, in true you know, Esoturk fashion, they reached out to ask the name of this being, and the being presented himself as Pan. His name was Pan, and Ted Hughes became obsessed with Pan. And this is like the start of Sylvia Plaids downward spiral into madness and mania. And she says that one day they were sitting like in a glade. I think it was

in the Lake districts. I think it was in Cumbria, but they were sitting, they were sitting there, you know, having a good time, having a picnic, and she turned and you know, Ted Hughes turned to her. They were married, and you know, they were loving couple,

both successful, well, he was a successful poet at the time. But then he turned and then he turned back, and she said that his eyes were black, he had the black horble eyes of someone possessed, and that he grabbed her by the throat and he strangled her and pushed her down on the ground and he was on top, and she thought she was going to die. And then at the moment of death, and she looked up and

his eyes were black and it wasn't She said, it wasn't him. And then and then right at the moment of death, he released and then he sat back up. And then she sat back up and turned and looked at him and was like, what, what was that? And he turned and he said, Oh, it's a lovely day we're having. And he was a totally different person. And she said that this terrified her so much that

she was sure that it was Pan that did this to her. And it makes sense in light of what we just read, especially in the arboreal setting, and she had been obsessed with Pan. In fact, on one of her most famous poems is Daddy Poem Daddy, and she's talking about I won't read the whole poem, and I can't. I can't even read the It's a great poem in terms of the cannon, and I can't. I can't

even read it. Of some of the terms in here. It's very it's very there's a lot of violence in the poem, so I can't really read it, but there is one part where she says, on page fifty eight, she says, of this of Ariel, which was the Pulitzer Prize in the poem, Daddy, and the stands that She says, you stand in the blackboard, Daddy, in the picture I have of you a cleft in your chin instead of your foot. But no less a devil for that, No, not any less. The black man who bit my pretty red heart

in two I was ten when they buried you. So she's which is a pan image a cleft foot. He had a calls some Panzerman panzer man. His name was Otto Plath and he was Austrian. And she sees various, you know, allusions to other historical events that you know, I can't name, but but she sees the cleft foot and she she later goes on at the end of the poem, She's The poem ends with she says, I've if I've killed one man, I've killed two. The vampire who said he

was you and drank my blood for a year seven years. If you want to know, Daddy, you can lie back down. Now there's a steak in your fat black heart. The villagers never liked you. They are dancing and stamping on you. They always knew it was you, Daddy, Daddy, you bastard. I'm through, she says, so so seems to be a poem of stuff to her. Yes, some bad some bad stuff happening, which is not just I'm not just saying all this randomly. Obviously that's

tied in with the Pan imagery that we've just been reading. Yeah, so and the other I won't read this whole soliloquy, but this is there's a lot in terms of what we're gonna talk about the movies, and I see tinker Bell, and we didn't really talk about tinker Bell that much or Tiger Lily because we haven't there's so much in the Peter Pan book. But Tinkerbell is obviously taken from Queen mab which is in Romeo and Juliet, Act one,

scene four, when Marcuccio gives his soloquy. I mentioned this last week,

but he says, then I see Queen Mabbeth's been with you. She's the Faiy's midwife, and she comes in shape no bigger than a nagget stone on the forefinger of an Alderman drawn with a team of little adami over men's noses as they lie asleep, and he talks about her wagon spokes made of long spinner's legs, the cover of the wings of grasshopper, her traces of the smallest spiderweb, her collars of the moonstone's watery beams, her whip of

cricket's bone, the lash of film or wagon or a small gray coated nat So it's an esoterics, you know, soliloquy where he's talking about how in the context of me, he's talking about how Romeo has been asleep and he's been seduced by his you know, his new love for Juliet after rosaline. But in terms of like the imagery of being asleep and overtaken by fairies going

to another world. And it's a tiny little fairy who has all these natural there's a lot of natural imagery right with the moonstones and the crickets and the and we see that at pants Labyrinth, right where's she says, Oh, oh, it's a it's a fairy, but it's like a little like cricket grasshopper thing, right, is that the one where she rides in an acorn yeah, remember that. I don't know why. So there's a lot more. I mean, I I found the Keats poem Japan. There's the Shelley

poem to Pan. There's Swinburne, there's Elizabeth Barrett Browning, which talks about Pan and Syrinx, and then and then my favorite, which if we have time, I'll get to it. But my favorite is my favorite poet, Arthur Rambau, French poet eighteen fifty four eighteen ninety one, and he has he has multiple poems in his book Illuminations. He wrote Illuminations and a Season and How, which is a kind of a kind of a Gnostic gospel as poem, prose poem, and and in his collective poems he talks about the

fawns. He often makes reference to the fawns in nature. So that's going to tie in with what we're about to talk about, I think. So that's so crazy that they were doing wegi board talking to Pan. Yeah,

because have you ever heard of a lady named Tracy Twyman. Okay, so she was kind of like a esoteric researcher in maybe like twenty twelve Fish, and she was doing this whole series about her and the Luigi War talking to Baphome, right, and I'm you know, we met her at conferences, we did shows and stuff, so she was an acquaintance who knew a lot about esoteric things. And as soon as she started doing these channelings of Baphome, she called it, things started to go downhill. And then she died

mysteriously. And some people don't know if it was by her own hand or what story there, because it was just so weird, but it had something to do with talking to Baphome on Luigi War. Bad bad news, folks. Yeah, please do not try to contact spirit world with the wei ward. This is bad news, folks. This is not a good first date idea. No to contact the Weigi board. We just watched this horrible movie last night about like this hand that if you shake it then you become possessed.

And it's like people voluntarily yeah, admit themselves to these gullies, right, yeah, yes, yes, well that I guess that's the point. Right, They're voluntarily walking into it and asking questions, and and you must to say I let you in, right, right, yes, And I suppose it. I suppose it. A lot of it is determined by your belief system and your what do they call it intentionality? Is that a word?

But the poem here, I've got the at the beginning of the poem Wigi from Ted use and it's a long poem, so I'm not going to read the whole thing, but he says, Wuigi always bad news. From the Ouiji board. We spelled out the alphabet fringe the arena of your coffee table, with the letters two goals yes at one end, know it the other. Then leaned our middle fingers lolling on the on the bottom of the upturned glass for volity darkening to solemn apprehension. Respectfully, we summoned a spirit.

It was easy as fishing for eels in the warm summer darkness, and hardly a minute before the glass begin and knows that the letters then the circle thoughtfully, and some occult pickpocket had slit the soul's silk and fingered us. But we explained it easily. Yeah, And then the poem pan which is

short. Ted hughes right, and this is out of his book. Forget which book this is out of, but pant he writes, flowers, flowers, open pits of allure, the beast's glance makes the ghost faint invitation and the bird's throat a goblet full wet mouth and hot under softness where the heart struggles at the surface, abandonment of water, long openings, disheveled silks, and nakedness of what resists nothing, the painful, stiff grace of insects,

making the stones ache so earthly, earth, so early earth, in stifled convulsion with bellowings, with gas roots torn up, with life gushing from the body, and relief as eye widens against iye, with death and hot bracket and birth under catskins. He yields her daughters. Now he's actually talking about panning, like panning for gold, because it's yielding up your daughter, you know, the gold daughters of the earth. Right. But it's clearly the

figurative is clearly talking about pan in terms of his demon god here. And Ted Hughes is an interesting poet because I mean, I mean, I know, I'm talking pretty far into talking about poetry here, which most people probably go home. But but if there's somebody to if you want to, if anybody out there wanted to understand anything about modern poetry, I would say that

Ted Hughes is the place to start. I mean, if you can read the Hawk and the Rain or Crow or lupracoll or a wolf watching and they read so they read so so easily because the language is so strong and visceral and you know exactly what he's talking about right away, even though the deeper side of it and the subtext is something so dark and has this dark spiritual

nature to it. But it's important, I think, to understand it to read works like that because it sets the tone for modern literature, which mirrors and and sort of leads the way for the way that we think in the water culture. Well, and also you just made me think that it's the

same spirits that are inspiring people throughout the ages too. Yeah right, yes, yeah, absolutely So, so what should we talk about now, hook, let's do Let's go to Spain, Okay, alright, nineteen forty four because this is the same year as the Peter Pan movie that we talked about last time, Pan, which is the name for their hero and not actually it's a title, right like Ward or something like that. So Spain nineteen forty four Fascist step Dad. And then oh this, I found out the

fawn in Pan's Labyrinth was inspired by Garmo del Toro's lucid dreams. We have about it. As a child, he said, at midnight he would wake up and find a fawn coming out from behind a grandfather clock. So this thing has been following Germo del Toro since he was a child. A Laborrinto del followed us. Were you able to find one with English stub titles? That wasn't all for me? Yeah? No, I just watched it in the in the regular Spanish right, no better day? I remember that Garcia

Lorca. Have you been to Spain? Yeah you have? Yeah? Have you been to Pan's Labyrinth? No? No, I did the Camino de Santiago. Okay, well, I spent three wild weeks in Spain two thousand and four, my last year of drama school. I flew to Spain for three weeks and it was what an awesome country. It was amazing. It's really cool. So in the opening sequence of this movie, they're talking about an underground realm where there's no lies, no pain, and there's a princess

who dreamt of the human world. She escaped and forgot where she came from. So right off the bat, there's like persephone imagery coming out m there's the whole weird g R O O M I N G aspect of telling kids like, oh, those aren't your parents. Your real parents are a king and queen. I'll take you to meet them. That is like in a

lot of kids movies. Right. Yes, So this little girl she they're driving to meet her stepfather, who was some kind of like fascist colonel or whatever general, I don't know what was it above And on the way there she discovers this mysterious monument in the forest of a fawn with a missing eye. So she puts the eye back in the socket and and this like fairy bug appears right, and it was almost like the things that led up to

her finding this, we're like set up, you know. The bug leads her to the hillar and this is just like the monument to notings that we

were reading about in Great God Pan book. Yeah, it's interesting also that you brought up that it's always a world where they where they say there's no pain, right, which is but because it's the inverted world, they have to sacrifice, you know, make blood sacrifices and all this stuff and follow a series of rituals and go through the the sequence in order to get there instead of you know, instead of in a in the in a Christian you know, in Christianity, which is in revelation. You know, God will

wipe away every tear from your eyes. You're ear. You find yourself in heaven and there's no more pain. There's no more sorrow, and there's really no pain right because you're with God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Instead of making your way through this through this terrible series of rituals where you're place, yeah, into the underworld right where oh you know they're

they're a king and queen and you're a princess. We told you that even though you're surrounded in darkness and there's a weird fawn demon that's yeah, right and yeah, and we'll get to that in a second. Like she goes down to meet the fawn and on the rock is like the fawn and her and a baby. It's kind of like a weird trinity going on. We'll get to that in a second. So she discovers this and she puts the

eye in and her initiation can begin, right. Yeah, And this is like kind of saying, now she's going to have the vision to see the spirit world. Yeah, they're also in the car right before that, in the car going through the woods in a caravan, right, and the and her mother tells her, when you meet the captain, I'll refer to him as father. So her f she has the lost fathers. You don't know where her father is, but this guy's going to be your new father,

which is which is interesting. He died, right, So that's where her father is in the underworld now, right. And for the folks at home, of course, the movie takes it, like we were just saying, takes place. You know, this is the Spanish Civil War in nineteen thirty six to nineteen forty five. It's like nineteen forty four, I think, is what you said. And they're in the mountains, you know, fighting the rebels, and it's funny how the it's funny how the Phalangists are fighting

in pristine uniforms. Oh yeah, right, where did you get that? Right? And weren't they also fighting in World War two? Or were they just doing their own things? Well, it was, it was. It was parallel with World War two. And of course there's the I saw I saw Picasso's Guernica, which is everybody seen the Cubist painting of when Hotler sent the Condor Legion over as a taskron to bomb city of Garenica right in Spain.

But that that was like the extent of their That was the extent of their overt involvement in War two, so it was parallel, but they weren't involved with the greater war on the continent, even though it mimics that. It mirrors that in a number of ways because you have fascist versus a communist

and so forth. Right, So the captain Vidall, he is the archetype of Saturn and time because he's always carrying around that watch, remember, right, So we're tying this back into Capricorn again with the time pieces, and he was like obsessed with the time of his father's death. So that's Saturn again. And the little girl when she gets to the property where she's supposed to be staying, she follows the pair the fairy under the arch of Pan

down the spiral staircase. So here's the spirals again. And we all know about the FBI that they put out right that identifies child predators, and the biggest one is a spiral. And then you've got a spiral triangle, and you've got a butterflies on there. I've believe like some kind of spiral heart or like a heart within a heart. Yeah. So these are the identifying symbols that they use to know each other in the wild child predators, Yeah,

glyphs and sigils of the creeperist, evil, most ghoulish people. Yeah, so you're gonna see spirals all over this movie. And of course the fawn tells her she's a princess and her real father has opened portals all over the world so she could return. Oh yeah, I forgot about that because I thought of Donnie Darka. Have you ever seen a portal? Yeah? So yeah, opening portals all over the world. And don't you think that

freaking fawn was like the creepiest thing. And she's not even phased at all, right, which says yeah, which says it's something to me about Guillermo del Toro's like artistic vision, right, is that the things that I think probably normal people find repugnant and disconcerting and gross. You would automatically if you if you see that, or if you see even if you see it in any other you know, work, you automatically you run away or you are

you This is not good. Just the physiognomy of this fawn, because it's not a fawn like in mythology, even where it's like, oh, they're at least they're pleasant creatures halfway cute, like mister Tumnus, Right, he's like totally demonically yeah. And his ears hello, yeah he does. He has firals on his head. Yes, yes, yes he did. Yeah, okay, so creepy uh fawd man Oh says she is born of the

Moon and the king of the underworld. Right, and Moon is if we're following Salima and Oto and those kind of symbols, moon is Babylon, right, the counterpart to Horace. This book talks all about lunar symbolism. That Alister Crowley book talks about the rights of Luna. And then and then of course, i'll it's metamorphosis talks about the passage. Right before that is talking about Diana. So Diana Artemis, you know in the Woods, Syrinx is

compared to Diana the way she holds up her dress when she's hunting. So was she a moon child? Yeah, yeah, I mean she just said child of the Moon, born of the Moon and the King of the underworld. And then he goes on to give her the Book of the Crossroads. Surprise, Surprise, how and and buon Thugs at Harmon He started playing see you at the cross Roads, and it's a blank book. It's a blank book with blank pages that her Psyche writes in ink on the page to determine

the through three stages of the process. Does she have to go through three? Just three stages? Are you trying to see quest? Three quests? Before the moon is full? You were trying to remember the words to the bone thugs long, You can't remember the words? Can't here. I'm gonna miss it, everybody. I'm gonna miss it, and i'm gonna miss seven money and I'm gonna miss seven ninety Yeah, living in a hateful worlds, let me straight to head. Hell, I'm gonna a wonderful day and with

my minds. The first of the buns, smoking, joking, rolling blunts, it's enough ounces again. Wow, we got the busting. Wow. All nights we high. We got the buds. And when it's ninety nine, I get and play, y'all what you need? We got weed? Yeah. When we pray and we pray you and we pray. Yeah, okay, okay, So we talked about the cross was all the time.

This is a super ancient thing, going by way back to the first cities Mesopotamia where they would meet with the gods in the Zigaratte that is known as the meeting point or the crossroads, and then go all the way to Robert Shawson and the beginning of Rock and Ball where he sells his soul to the devil at the crossroads. So whenever you see crossroads symbolism, this is going to be talking about meeting the devil at the very least meeting the spirit world

or whatever is on the other side. So the crossroads is the meaning point between the mundane world and spirit world. Yeah. Eric Clapton's biography, he's he's got the Crossroads, the Crossroads rehab clinic, and then voodoo. Obviously crossroads a huge and voodoo. So that's perfect little gift to give a little girl, I think from a demon underground YouTube book of the Crossroads. That's innocent. But I did notice in one scene where she goes on her first

quest, she's dressed like Alison Wonderland. Did you notice that she goes into the tree just like Alison Wonderland. She goes into the roots of the Big Tree, which is passageways to Wonderland the other side Neverland. Yeah, and they do that in Peter Pan as well. Remember they Peter fits the tree around the Lost Boys so that they can descend into their underground underworld hovel.

You know, I mean, she's obviously liked this because the context of the movie makes it so that she has this other world because number one, she's a child and she's naturally going to go play in the woods and she's going to have her imagination world. But but it's it's tempered by the fact that number one, they're in the middle of a literal war. So going out

into the woods is dangerous because it becomes a war zone. In the film, it becomes a war zone, and because there's a war zone in her heart with her missing father and her mother taking her up there to the to this man, and then there's a war zone in terms of the way that he, the father guy, makes war on her, right, I mean

literally what happens in the in the film. You know, she's a she's a victim of like three types of war, and so of course she goes out into the she has this other world where her imagination takes her, and that becomes her new world and it takes over I mean, well the thing, the thing with the root right like screaming in the in the fireplace, which will get to right, she's creating like these magic these magic totems right

for the birth of her baby brother, where she's melding the spirit world and the natural world and not natural world, not just naturalistic, but like the natural fauna and flora right of the of the the labyrinthine world outside. So it makes her, it makes her, It splits her right into this personality where she doesn't know what's real and what's not, I guess is the point of the film. Yeah, and the book has like foreshadowing too, so

like you said, it comes from her own psyche. And there's a scene where she opens it up and there's nothing on the page, but then it starts to like bleed. Yeah, and that's like the night that her mom died in childbirth, right, Yeah, it bleeds it, It bleeds inky black on the page, just like the mockin book was talking about, right exactly. So the second thing that she has to do for the demon Funness Underground is go see the Paleman. Oh my gosh, this is the worst

part. That's probably the most memorable creature of the movie because he is super creepy. He's like disgusting. He's uh, soggy, He's he's soggy, Yes, he is. He's grow Yeah, and he you know, depictions of him eating children look a lot like Goya's chronos. They do. Yeah, I'm sure that was purposeful. Yeah. And so she has to make a portal in her room with a chalk, just like a circle or spell, and then she is in his layer and she has to steal something from

him with it. Yeah. Yeah, she creates a door in the dark or a portal, just like in Beetle Juice, you know, a door into the other world or back to the real world. But yeah, this that that one scene is why, you know, honestly, I never I avoided this movie for so many years because I just it's just so what's the word not vascular, It's so like it's it's an unsettling movie. And I

also avoided Hook, but for different reasons. I know we're gonna get to Hook later, but like, I just really don't like that movie at all. I cannot stand in that movie. But it's for different than this, which is like the overt just gross fantasmic gia. Yeah, yeah, it's visceral phantasmagoria straight from Guillermo's like twisted you know, child mind or whatever. But yeah, every night out coming out from behind your grandfather clock, how

would you grow up normally? Right, they're waking up like the creek creek, right, and he's got to put the eyeballs in his hands. And the when the fairies are circling around his head and he's eating you know, like you were just saying the Corono's imagery of eating the fair it's just oh my gosh. And then chasing her down the labyrinth like halls and you're like, oh my god, please make this doorway into the sea to get out

of here. You just gave me chills again. Yes, So the test was she wasn't supposed to eat anything from his table because they wanted to know that she did not have any attachments to the physical world, because they were trying to bring her into the spirit wall and she has to be able to

let go of all that. That part was so annoying. It's like, don't eat the pomegranate, right, I mean, and you're going and she she picks the grapes, right, so she's don't eat the pomegranate, don't don't taste of the app you don't pluck the apple off the tree, just don't do it. Then it's like she eats it and like savors it, and the fairies are like literally like, don't do it, don't do it, and she's like swatting them away, and you're like, oh my gosh,

you kind of lose sympathy at that point. Oh totally. It's like it's ridiculous because he literally said, like five minutes ago, whatever you do, don't eat anything, and she's like, oh, I'm just gonna eat something, right, And they got food up in that cabin. Yeah, right, you know they're eating there. What do they you know they got top us up there, right, don't eat don't eat the damn grape. Don't eat the damn grape. When the skin man is at the head of

the table right there, Why would you eat the food? I know it's so gross, and but it is very much like eve. It is a plantation of eves. So she fell and she awakened. The child eater is that what they call him? They call him the paleman? Right, But He's like, yeah, yeah, he's a child. What is it in Spanish? I'm gonna look at up real quick. I'm sure it's much more lyrical. So Ophelia gets into temptation. Oh and her name comes from Shakespeare too, so there's another Yeah, that's it does. Yeah. Oh,

speaking of which, I'm in the middle of her. I don't know if it's a hurricane hurricane Ophelia right now sink roal, Yeah, and I think of Hamlet's Ophelia or Jim Morrison's Ophelia leaves sodden and silk chlorine, dream mad, stifled, witness the angel man finally claims benevolent soul. Yeah, so, so it's she's Ophelia in the movie, which is already foreshadowing us sad ending for her. It's different than Ophelia and Hamlet. So then what happens?

Then the baby's born mother dies in childbirth, and the surprise the stepfather is a heartless Yeah, general or captain who just wants a male descendant, right right. They they did flesh out his character a little bit, like he didn't even care about the mom, right because at that dinner scene, the mom was trying to tell him their romantic story and he's like shut up or whatever. He just totally invalidated her. Yeah, in front of everybody. What can you see? Yeah, yeah, it's nasty, says he's

a pale skinned humanoid monster by a lambre bylo or something. He's gone. But yeah, so the mother is a vast yes, yes, Americano non fato no h. So she's a vessel, right, yeah, she's a vessel for him for his male for his And they say, how do you know it's going to be a male baby, and he's like, he's like, basically like, don't let it be anything other than that. Yeah, and he actually that's oh that's right. Yeah right, He's like, what

if it's a girl with me? Yeah, oh my gosh, yes, don't yeah yeah, don't with this guy, right, dude, Well he did to the Mountain people who really disturbing talk about scenes that you just like cannot yeah body, body shock, horror where and it's literally, I mean

he caves in the guy's face. Yeah right, So, which plays into you know, with the mac and book, right, because it's always about the facial expression, and he he destroys the guy's face is even his very appearance and the guy's dad is right there and he's like, you killed my son, and then he kills the dad and then but he does you know he's gonna do that, do whmember he comes across, and then he's got his faithful minions, right. But then there's the one guy who screws it

up and he's like, don't screw it up again. And if you're that guy, you're like, oh my gosh, like, yeah, don't mess with this guy. He was like, next time, don't bother me with stupid stuff, right, I won't. He's in there, he's in there, he's got his he's shaving, right. Everything everything he does is I mean, this guy plays a good bad guy, right, he is you really fear this guy. I mean he's every motion that he does is like

full of maniacal lethality. It's like the guy could be eating right and he's like, yeah, reaches for the glass of water, right, Like is he going for a gun? Yeah. He's very suspenseful and intense, like that one guy I can't remember his name in the Tarantino movie who played the Nazi at the beginning. Yeah, he's very intentional with all of it. And it's scary. Yeah. So the third west was it to bring him

the baby? Right? So what everyone wants this little male child. Yeah, and the fawn shows Ophelia the sculpture of him and her and her holding the baby, yeah, which I don't know it is supposed to be like a family tree or just her bringing him the sacrifice. But she brings the baby to him, but then she won't give the baby to him, right, right, right, so she kind of has a repentance at the end.

Was this when the so before that is when she got the root, right, there's like a there's like a root shrub thing, and she gave root to put drake, yeah, to put underneath the mom's bed so she wouldn't have like pain in the pregnancy. And then the dad burned the man

drake, and that's when the mom died in Tobbart. So it's man dragara, as Shakespeare says, and the man drake, I mean, you know more about this, but the man drake is not only a kind of a narcotic route used in the Renaissance, but also is full of It's supposed to bleed when you pull it out of the earth. And and then when of

course the dad the man. The captain finds it under the bed, which is actually clever in the in the movie that they did that, because that is that that is you know, that does convey like the actual actions of I mean, like the Nordics did this. I know this is a practice like a witchcraft, like putting something under the bed, especially when someone's giving birth, because it's near to the person and it's mimicking the baby in the first place. And then he throws it in the fire and you see it

screaming and wriggling. It's horrible. So yeah, that she takes so the baby is born. But then but he also says like he says to the doctor, and the doctor is the most noble character in this right because the doctor is treating the rebels, but he's also has to treat the the captain, and we know that he's giving I don't know what he's giving her. I guess he's giving her like opium or laudnum, something for the pain.

And then he gives one of the guys who's tortured, you know, he gives him a tincture, he gives him an injection so that he won't feel the pain. And then you know, we know that he's working with the maid or whatever in the house too. He's some sort of a not a double agent, but he's working for both regardless of he knows he's probably gonna die, you know. But the baby's born, and he said the captain says to the doctor, if it's a choice between the mother and the baby,

save the baby, right. And Ophelia hears this, And then when the baby's born, she takes the baby yeah, into the labyrinth and gives it to the f And then of course we have him, we have him angry with her before that. Right, why would I told you not to

do this or whatever? I give you a second chance, right, and he and then so she so she is that when she takes it down and then into it like a stone circle that literally has a spiral in the stone circle, and he meets the she meets the fawn there, yeah, and he like wants some baby blood, yes, and she says no, yeah, And she's smart enough to know that he's probably lying in terms of what he wants. He says, oh, it would be just a little brick

and just a little and she knows that he's probably lying. And that's when the captain appears. Is that when the captain appears in the circle. Yeah, and the captain can't see the fawn. That's right. Now we are wondering if this girl's having a breakdown or it's all in her imagination, or she can see things that the adults can't. So it's not really explained. But the movie has the darkest of all endings. Does He's also got a joker smile. I forgot about that part where she the maid cuts him in

the mouth and he's and he sews it up. Yeah, so he's got a a weird distorted like demonic smile cut into his face. But yes, the dark ending. Yeah, and then she ends up through dying, ends up beingcoming the Queen of the underworld, right, right, or the princess.

She meets her mom and her dad. So so the Ewoks, the Ewoks come out of the woods and endor and sends circle circle Darth Vader, Yeah, and shoot him in the head, and the care Bears come and they shoot down with their care bear stairs of love and it was happy. Yeah, And then she transcends into the underworld. So so her journey is complete. I suppose what a dark movie. It is really dark, very

dark and on point with everything that we have been discussing. Yeah, because Pan is the taker, He's the giver and the taker of life and death, very Shiva character. Also, yeah, else and it's and it's Peter Pan, you know, because she's a child. She's going on a you know, metaphysical journey outside of the territory of her home, searching for something else, searching for searching for a neverland in the underworld, I suppose.

Yeah. Yeah, And it's always you know, maidens on the cusp of womanhood right right right at the age where they would begin their minstreating or whatever and becoming of age to learn about sexual things. So that is when Pan pounces and funny, this one Goya. The Goya Award is the Spanish It's like the Spanish oscars. That one really Yeah, when the Goya Award, of course it is too. Yeah, all right, let's talk about Peter Pan and Windy. Okay, this one in there for you guys. Extra

little nugget twenty twenty three. Peter Pan and Wendy is the live action remake of the nineteen fifty three cartoon Walt Disney. Peter Yeah, not awesome. What did you think well, there were things about this that creeped me out, namely Peter Pan. He was creepy. He was really well at all, totally unlikable and really creep me. And it's it's strange to say that because of the you know, the age of the person who plays Peter Pan.

I don't want to be too harsh, but I mean it really did give me the creeps because he's not likable and because of everything he says in the way that he said. I don't want to say too much, but if you watch the movie, you would know immediately. You know, Hello, I don't even want to imitate Hello. I mean hit to scape your window, I mean hit to tike you from your window, and you're like, oh no, this is it. Yeah. And Tiger Lily is a much bigger role in this. Yep. I like the girl who plays Tiger

Lily. I thought she was I always liked the Tiger Lily character, even in the cartoon. I thought she was real cute. Yeah. Well, one thing I meant to bring up also is that is the stuff with the weird stuff in real life with Tiger Lily. Remember, Tiger Lily is the daughter of Michael Hutchins. And Paul Yates, Michael Hudgins from NXSS. Yeah, and remember he died in the same way that we were talking about with

Robin Williams and the other people. Oh yeah, and she is the adopted daughter of Bob Geldolf and Bob Geldoff supposedly there's some there's some Bob Geldoff Jeff Steime McCaffrey connection. Wasn't the girl in the Next sim Orto? Yes, so Peaches Geldoff, who's the daughter of Bob Geldoff. She died of a heroin o'd and she was in that. She had a Nextium tattoo. Okay, and she was in Oto. Okay. What is what I read?

I used to read. It's funny because you know, I used to read a lot of before Internet, I guess I used to read a lot of magazine. You know. I'd read music magazines and music reviews just anywhere. And she wrote a lot of good music reviews for that for Nylon. Remember Nylon magazine. It's like a it's like a woman's fashion magazine. But they had good music interviews in it. And I remember her talking about Calm Trus, you know. And now I'm not talking about Tom Komb the actual calm

Trus that you know, synth musician. But anyway, she she uh, you know, was it like a big presence in Hollywood, I suppose, and wrote, you know, fairly decent articles and stuff about music. But then I remember that she had they said she had an oto tattoo. I don't know what the truth of that is. Maybe it was just something somebody said in an article, but was also had something to do with nextium and then died suddenly, right, and she's I guess she would be the adopted

half sister or whatever of Tiger Lily. And that's interesting because of how Tiger Lily is portrayed. Tiger Lily, by the way is portrayed in US specifically, there's a lot in the book. I mean, the descriptions of Tiger Lily in Peter Pan the book are it's surprising because oh God, I'm never I'm never gonna be able to find it. But the descriptions of Tiger Lily in here in this Peter Pan book are there's a lot of innuendo, like

the way that she's dressed. God, I wish I could find the actual quote, the way that she's actually dressed and the way that they describe her, like with her low cut, you know, outfit, and that she's I'll just I'll just sum it up by saying that they portray her fairly accurately in this Peter Pan and Wendy, where she's kind of you know, she's a The actress she plays her in this is like in her twenty you know, mid to late twenties or something is supposed to be a you know,

it's like she's a native because she's she plays an Indian, you know, in Peter Has what they call her, and she's you know, kind of sexy in the movie, and then she saves Peter Pitch, so she's an outside character from the rest of it, which is interesting because the rest of it is like we get Captain Hook, who's a who's grown, and then we get Peter Pan and them their their children, and then we get Tiger

Lily, who's supposed to be you know, a grown who's grown. So right, yeah, right, But I thought that overall this movie was interesting because they did something different with Captain Hook, which is kind of like people talk about how Captain Hook is seeing you know people, it's theorized that captain Hook is a former lost boy, right, and in this they really go with that all the way. I mean, Jude Law is a he becomes he's not likable because he's a villain, right, he know, but but

there's something in his eyes. And then the resolution of the movie, which is that he's saved. He's saved by Peter Pan and not to spoiler alert, but he's saved by Peter Pan, and that he's a sympathetic character. He's in pain, right, yeah, well, yeah, he has like his villain origin, yeah, seen in this So yeah, this takes place in Edwardy in England, and the Disney movie was a nineteen fifty three movie. Yes, and I noticed something. M it's Wendy's last night at home

as a child. So in a cartoon they don't really make a big deal about this, they just say it's Whendy's last night in the nursery. But in this one, she's really having a hard time with like having to go to boarding school and it's her last night at home, and so her wish is actually kind of what summons Peter Pant right, right, yes, And so he comes in the nursery and tinker Bell's there, and she looks different, yes right, yes, yes, I know, yes, yes different.

And this is so crazy because I knew that. You know that scene in the cartoon where she is trying to see if she's going to fit through a little hole and she measures her hips, remember that, I looked it up because I knew it looked familiar. And it was also in a marathon in Rowe movie which which one gentlemen prefer blonde? Okay, nineteen fifty three,

so same year. I don't know who did it first, but Marilyn wrote measures her hips just like that to see if she can fit through a porthole and a ship, just exactly like tinker Bell, and the movies were made of this one. Well Disney was like, we're gonna put this in

all the movies. So I didn't catch this ever, But tinker Bell is the only reason that any of them can fly, Peter p f Lie without her, right right, yeah, So she's the one that is like always coming in clutch and saving everybody, and even in this movie, well that's like in the that's like in what's the one we did last week? Oh pan, where they're mining for fairy dust draino inside the you know, pineal

mountain or whatever, and so yeah, just of immortality. Yeah, and her her it must be that her love is just like they can fly by thinking good thoughts. I guess her love is what keeps her alive and flying and passes on to the others. Claps. Wasn't there something about if you clap, you bring them back to life? They didn't put that in this

one, but there's always something about breathing, clapping and hears. So I noticed when in the first scene when they all go to bed, it's tinker Bell that comes in to the bedroom and sprinkles Wendy in the bed and Wendy floats out of the bed like Exorcists. That wasn't in the first Yeah.

Yeah, So, like you were saying, Wendy, it's different than this one because we get a different We get a sort of a revisionist context on Edwardy in England, right, So instead of the window being open and Peter coming in and searching for a shadow, instead we get Wendy going off to school, which is it's usually the boys that would be going off to boarding school, but I suppose she's going off to school to learn how to be like her mother. Remember, and she says, I didn't want what if

I don't what if I don't want to be like you? Mother? Yeah, you're a gray little winka. She and her mother's like, okay, all right, it's fine. Yeah, And she has her little shait. She fights with her brothers. Right, she breaks the mirror. I forgot her the breaking of the mirror. You know. Nana's in the room and the father comes in, Oh, why don't you ever grow up, Wendy, And she goes and she so she breaks the mirror. That wakes them

up. That's the that's the start sort of the genesis of what is going to become her flying away. But then she goes and she hides behind the veil in her room, and then tinker Bell comes in. It sprinkles, the fairy does. Also, it's interesting that this is I think this is the only one where tinker Bell doesn't speak, which is interesting. It's like, if they're gonna do what they did, but then they're not gonna they're

gonna take away her voice in the movie. That seems a little odd right in their paradon, that they're going to do that with the recasting of tinker Bell. And yeah, then she then we when do we meet Peter? He comes in right after her. So I was gonna say, so she's floating out the bed like Exorcist. Yeah, and this is something that I mentioned a couple of shows ago in reference to a Beyonce music video calls Dreams. In the beginning, she Oh Dub comes and floats above Beyonce and she

floats out of the bed like she's possessed or something. And that's when I was showing you this about how the dove in the oto. Yeah. So all that symbolism they're using Beyonce, they use it on Wendy, right, And here again we have girls coming of age, perfect time to have a visitation by Pan, right, and he comes in and takes her away because she doesn't want to grow up yet, and they fly out the window through

a portal that happens to be big Ben h Did you catch that? Yeah, through the through the clock, Yeah, just like just like Pan emerges from behind the clock and Garam model Toro's Hellish Night Night Visions. Yes, and just how we've seen the theme of time and watches and Saturn throughout all of the things we were talking about. The time portal okay, uh so, and he says, we're gonna go to Neverland where you can be yourself. So where have you heard stuff like that before? Everywhere? Now?

Yeah, right, himself in the Yeah. And he's got he's got his he's got he's kind of advanced from the squeaky voice that you've talked about in so many others. Hello, Hello, I can't do it. He's got a squeaky voice. And she notices after they go through Big Ben through the portal, it's it becomes the upside down world like streaming, and she sees her reflection and everything is top se trvy that came up in parts of the Caribbean too, And y'all are doing it. Y'all are doing parts of the

Caribbean tomorrow mega stream, mega stream. Yeah, I suppose. So this is supposed to be her flying backwards through time, right, going back to her innocence when she could be in Neverland. She doesn't want to grow up, right. Yeah. However, when they get to Neverland and a couple of scenes, you can see Saturn in the sky from the earth of Neverland. Did you notice that, right? Yeah? And was it this one that I thought? I mean, hook is more. I see a lot

of Jeff Stein McCaffrey island in Hook. Okay, this one was slightly different because we don't see a do we see a vision of it flying downwards and we see the island. No, we didn't know, not in this one. But yes, yes, Saturn in the sky. Of course, this movie is so ridiculous. Dude, with me a minute to figure out whose captain Hook was. Jude Law. He's not. Yeah, he's coming since that sex spot in the Spielberg movie, remember, yes, yeah, in Ai. Yeah, yeah, So what do you think about? What do

you think about Jude Law? He's I don't know. What do you mean? I don't know? He he uh when he was filming Cold Mountain, I'm still thistling my channel before. But we had a tape of him.

We had a VHS tape of him because when he was filming Cold Mountain, he was in Charleston and he was at a bar and he met my friend and his like fraternity brothers, and they went back to his house for a party, and and my friend had a cam quarter and just set it up on top of the TV and just pressed record, and there's like an hour of footage of just chew Law like sitting on the sofa talking everybody, and he's it's funny because he's hitting on one of my friends at the time.

But he was married to Sadie Frost at the time. And during during this when this was happening, it got into late night and one of their friends like walked he was in I don't want to stay too much for he was in a room with a girl and he walked out and and you can hear him walk out of the room and they go, hey, Jude Laws here and he goes, who fuck is that man? Give me a beer? And he totally jud Laws like what this guy to know me? And he

walks back in shut the door. But yeah, I thought Jude Law was interesting in this because you know a lot of the Captain hooks that we see, like with Dusty Mothman is totally is totally creepy to me and just is just creepy. But Judelaw, when I was watching this, I thought, there's something in this makes this guy likable, Like he like he he doesn't, I don't, I don't want to. I don't know a person's heart, whether he has love in his heart, but he seemed to be more

normal. If that makes any sense when I was watching it, I don't know if that's just me reading into the movie. You're supposed to have a little sympathy for him, right, right, he'd hit up two different colored eyes. I noticed he did. He did. Yes, he had a he had a left had a left eye marble of glass eye. And there was a scene where well he had black hair and then he got all wet and his like hair dyved, dripping. So they're saying he's trying to fight

aging. Still maybe right, So Hook, he there's a scene where his wig comes all the way off and he says, Priest, provide me with a little dignity. But in this one, I guess it was the hair dye. And also his hook was on a different hand. In this he had he had the hook on his he got the hook hand. Yeah, so Jim Gaffigan is me yeah, right, yeah, And come to find out Hook, We'll remember we were talking about fan theories and that Hook was

the lost boy, right, so this is part of the movie. Now, Yes, that's the movie, and they made it Cannon, Yes, and now Hook was the first lost boy, but grown ups were evil. He tried to escape Neverland because he missed his mom and he was picked up by pirates and brought back to Nemberland. And that's when they started fighting with Peter. Yeah, and Peter. It says that Peter made him leave, right, and that what he said Peter made him made him leave, wouldn't

come back. And then and then later in the movie, that's it's sort of the climax of the movie because Peter returns and apologizes. He says, I'm sorry for it wasn't a good friend to you. And then and then he's about to fall off the mass of the ship and he says, think good thoughts, and then Jude Law says, I don't have any, and then falls into the water, all sad he doesn't have any good thoughts.

Fourteen right, It's it's funny how he turned. He goes from being a little boy raised by the pirates to like growing up and being their tyrant and they all follow him like, how did that? Well, I suppose it would be the story of Annakin Skywalker, Oh yeah, very much is Yeah, going from the beloved you know, right hand man of Obi Wan right into becoming the worst, the worst of the bad guys. Of course, he's not a pirate on solo is the pirate, but but becoming the worst

of the bad guys. Right, you did say something when you were texting me, you were like, order sixty six, execute Order sixty six because he did do that. He like ordered the children to be executed. Yeah, which is what Anakin does in was it in the second one attack of the Clones he goes back into the temple. Yeah, and you know issues Order sixty six eradicates all of the Jedi kids. Yeah, it was that a weird that they included that line. Yeah, issue Order sixty six.

I mean, you know sixty six is right. The so hook has an origin story just like Anakin. Tinkerbelt again the real MVP. She helps Wendy escape walking the plank and Wendy flies up and they're like he has the boys magic and Wendy's like this magic is from no boy. So there's some like uh, strong woman talk that's right in this with Tinkerbell and Wendy teaming up.

And when Peter's not there yet, right walking the walking the plank to jump into the chasm, right into the abyss, but I didn't hear a splash right then he splash and then she the whole ship floats because of artic tinkerbell magic. Also, the sea shanties in this were of note the lyrics to the The movie was directed by David Lowry, not David Lowry from Richmond, Virginia, who was part of the band Cracker. Hey Hey, Hey like me, It's don't that's on from the nineties. It's a different David

Lowry who in Camper van Beethoven as his other band. But David Lowry who directed The Green Knight last year. Have you seen his reboot of The Green Knight. It's twenty of course it's an eight twenty four movie. But yeah,

So the ship floats and that's when Peter Pan appears. Peter has lost his ability to fly as well because he Pixie does right right so, But but who ends up happening helping him is Tiger Lily with their native native spirit, riding on the white Horse, and then he does an extreme jump off of the cliff onto the ship, tears into it with his little sword, right yeah, and then befriends Captain hook or issues this call of friendship rather

than fighting him, which is interesting an interesting revision of the whole thing and redemption arc for both of them. That's right, Yeah, And I mean it ends on a positive note, right, It ends on a they're probably hoping for a sequel. Well, it ends they take the Lost Boys back. Okay, So they have to flip the ship because they're in the mirror world or the tide down or universe b as they like to call it in and esoterica, just like in Powers of the Caribbean, how they get out

of the Spirit dolder Room world. They have to flip the ship opposite and they all go back home and the Darlings adopt all the lost boys. Oh did you notice one of the Lost boys was a slowboy? Yes, the Down Syndroom Like, yes, it was the first starring role for a beautiful slowboy in a Disney phone. I don't mind it, Yeah, I didn't

mind it. I mean, one thing I had to say about people with Down syndrome is like one time I was watching reality TV, just flipping through the channels at the hotel, and there was this reality show about people down Syndroom and how they get along and stuff. And I watched this whole thing and their relationships and their responsibility and how they thought about life, like they were more based and smart than any other person I've ever seen in a reality

TV show. Yeah, well, in all seriously, I mean yeah, and in all seriousness, I mean Shane Gillis makes a good point that they're closer to God, right they are. They live in a I'm not trying to paint a broad picture here, but just to say that uttered I know that they're we're talking about complex human beings, but a sense of joy and innocence that is lost in the average adult, right. So, but it

just blew me away. Like if you're flipping channels and you see people acting crazy and you know they're not our word, then this show full of people who are and they're so mature and they're so responsible and they're so well spoken, and you know they're they're breaking up and they're just like hugging and being like, it's not it's not the best, you know, and then next channel people are. It's just a really weird contrast between who you see on

reality TV who's not don't have downson room. Then you flip channels, then you get to Below Deck Mediterranean. Yeah, like Real Housewise, where they're tearing up the place and stopping and throwing. It was a weird contrast. Okay, so beautiful slowboys and Peter Pan. They find out that Peter used to live there at the Darling's house and that's why he kept coming back, Yeah, to Wendy's house. And then he still doesn't want to grow up,

so he floats off to never Never Land. And there's a kind of an epilogue right where where Captain Hook has surfaced, right and Sme is there, Jim Gaffkin, Look, we survived. And then they look up and the ship floats out of the clouds and they look up and there's Peter Pan above him to save him. Yep, he returns for Captain Hook. So yeah, so it was an interesting movie. I mean, Mila Jovish's daughter really really Wendy really that's really really yeah interesting. It looked just like her

now that I think about it. Yeah, it was. Oh and one more thing before we go into your favorite Hook. What was I gonna says kidding late? Oh, Wendy is also the name of a like a title like, She's all Wendy. Did you notice that? Oh she's all right? Yeah in the film, Yes, yes, she's a Wendy. She's a Wendy figure. She becomes an archetype in their world exactly, so Anne and the last one was an archetype. Good thing, She's not a Wendy go Yeah, alright, so so Hook should we go on? Yes?

Okay, so now least your favorite? Yeah Hook. Gosh, I really don't like this movie, Doese Mockman, Maggie Smith, Gwyneth Paltrow, what is she? Gwyneth Paltrow plays the young Wendy young Maggie Smith. It's her. It's one of her first film roles. And and Gwyneth Paltrow's godfather is Steven Spielberg. Remember he gave her away in marriage. Also, Jimmy Buffett, David Crosby, Glenn Close, Phil Collins is in this all in cameo roles. And the movie is of course it has the John Williams score,

which does all the heavy lifting in this movie. But it's produced. Do you know who the producer was, Dodi al Fayette. Uh yeah, wow, I didn't know he was the movies at all. Yeah, he produced, He was the producer. And it was also written by the guy who of all things. I did an analysis of The Last starfighterh nineteen eighty four movie, and the writer or the director of that movie is one of the writers of this movie. So if you don't know, Dodi Alphayed is the

owner of Herod's the father of Princess Diana's boyfriend. What was his name, Muhammad alf Yeah, so he was the father of the person who died along with Diana in the cars who continued to say that there was a c spiracy with Diana's death. He died, He died recently. He died like I think he did. He died this year. I think he died recently. So beginning of Hook, he's flying a plane because he's scared of flying. So he just like grown up and he's got all of the grown up problems.

He's cranky, he's you know, fearful, he is he like an insurance sales day. He's bane capital. Oh yeah, yeah, he's a he's a not a hedge funder, but well I guess he's a hedge funder. But there's a scene where his dad, his son is talking to Wendy right and when they fly to London, and the Sun says, when we when we see a failing company, we go in and we buy them, and if they give us any resistance, we kill them. They're over. Oh yeah, they're over as a company. And so he's on the phone.

Actually, oh, I meant to get that out. I have the Motorola phone that he uses throughout this Yeah. Yeah, and he's got the he's got the little There's so many scenes that they should have cut in this movie, but one of them is when he's in the office with his friends and they do like a gunslinger draw, like of who can answer the phone the fastest, right, Yeah, And he's always on the phone. He's he's heading some company and he's starting to speculate, speculate in real estate.

And he's starting this children's wing of an orphan hospital named after when it's called the Wendy More you know Angela Dark So Wendy Mary Angel Darling is her name, And they're starting this wing of this hospital. And Wendy is the grandparent. Is his place his grandmother or something in this No, she's his wife's wife's Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Yeah, aunt or something like that. Right, they call her grandmother, so I guess it would be

of the kids. Yeah, yeah, the kid's grandmother. Okay, but it still didn't make any sense. But yeah, so he's he's flying the plane, or he's not flying the plane, but he's in the plane. I was surprised they didn't use Oceania airlines that they always use in the movies. Now confused because was he adopted? Yes, so she's part of that. So Wendy adopted Peter Pan when she oh because oh, because because he talks about he kept going back and she kept getting older and so she couldn't

fly anymore. And I guess that's at the point where she adopted it and her daughter, right, So, so time had passed, so she had grown older, but he'd stayed the same, so that when he starts to grow older, there's a time distance. So then he falls in love with the daughter. Okay, yeah, so I forget how how does he end

up in Neverlands? So so he goes away on they So they're they're in America, right, and they have the baseball game, and the Sun is going to play the baseball game and he says, oh, no. First it starts off at the play. They're watching a play of Peter Pan and the daughter, the youngest daughter is in the play, and the Sun is watching with Rob Williams and the mother, and he gets a phone called yes, so look the businesses, you know, and she's like, put away

the phone, you know. And then the Sun has a baseball met and a baseball and he says, you know, I'll be there tomorrow morning for the business deal. And then the Sun says, you know what about my baseball game, Dad, and he says, my word is my bond. Of course, he breaks his word because the next morning they have the baseball game. The Sun is there and Robin Williams goes off to the short meeting which ends up this, you know, is this long business deal or whatever.

He sends his cameraman to film the game, and then by the time he shows up, the game is over. By the way the game was, it's obviously warm outside because they're playing baseball, but they threw in winners special or whatever. And I guess that's because they premiered the movie in December, so they had to make it a Christmas movie. And it's also did you notice this The name of the league is called like date, It's called

the Date Nut League. Very weird. Yeah, it's something weird that I saw in there that plays into a lot of the Jeff's I make every stuff in the film, because there's a lot of it. And so then anyway, they missed the baseball game. Then they get on the plane and they fly over to London because he has to dedicate the new wing of the hospital. When they're on the plane, the sun is throwing baseball at the He's trying to crack the window of the airplane and Robin Williams says, why do

you have to always act like such a child? And the kid says, well, I'm a child, and then he hits the thing and the you know, the oxygen mask come down. They get mad. Then they get to London. They go to Wendy's house and then they put the kids to bed. The baseball is missing. The daughter says, oh, the kid says where who took my baseball? And she says the weird man that keeps appearing at the window, Oh yeah, which is hook right right? And

then they go and they dedicate the hospital wing. Robin Williams is giving a speech and he says, we're all orphans, or I'm an orphan, And then I guess how did they get out of the latch for the window by the way as a hook? And he wants the kid keep the window shut, always keep the window shut, which we know from Peter Pan is now that he's an adult, he wants to keep the window shut because he doesn't

have to come home again. But the window blows open, and then the I guess hook takes him off to Neverland, and then Robin Williams has to go and comes for him, right, and and tinker Bell is Julia Roberts. Yeah. Did you notice they called they called her tinker Hell, did they really? Yes, she was a high maintenance she was high maintenance diva. Oh that's funny. Oh did you notice that in the Disney's Peter Pan and Wendy, the live action one, they're playing Peter Pan in the beginning.

Yeah, in the beginning. Yeah, they're fighting, they're sword fighting. Yeah, they're already He's already in their pant of Heroes. Yeah, which is like right about the time that the actual book was written. Yeah, so so that move. So the Peter Pan and Wendy was released on the anniversary of the release of the nineteen fifty three movie, and then I guess that is supposed to be an anniversary of when the play was originally produced. The play called The Boy who hates mothers. Oh my god, yes,

yes, and the Little White Bird. Yeah. And then in this they're watching the play, so everyone is aware of Peter Pan, even though Wendy is involved in the actual thing. Oh there's also the brother, either it's John or Michael, who comes in. He's like, I lost my marbles. Oh yeah, it was one of the Lost Boys, right, I lost my marbles. I can't get him back. And then at the end he gets his marbles. See I didn't, I did. He lose

my marbles and he flies away. It's interesting. It ends interesting that the movie ends with the man flying away instead of the kids. So now he's achieved this everlasting youth innocence of flying and he flies towards Big Ben. It's weird. So Tink comes and gets Robin Williams so he can save his children. They get to Neverland the Lost Boys, like, where the f of

you Ben? This whole time, Yeah, he doesn't remember. Robin Williams doesn't remember that he's Peter Pan, and he doesn't believe any of this. He's just like an old man. Now. It takes him an hour and forty minutes. I timed it. Oh, to remember to remember that he's Peter Pan an hour and forty minutes of a two hour and seven minute movie to remember that he's Peter Pan. But you you like his outfit right when he like this. I never this movie. So it came out in ninety

one. I guess that's probably why I didn't like it, because it came out in ninety one, and in ninety one, I mean I was eleven, so I was like, dude, I don't want to see this. I want to go smoke cigarettes. Was you know, I wasn't interested in this, But it's a Spielberg movie, and there is a thing with like there's he mentions dinosaurs in the movie, and then there's the giant you know's the crocodile that kind of looks like a dinosaur. So Jurassic Park is on

the heels of this movie. Yeah, I guess, but I just didn't like I just I get the creepy crawlies when I see this human man child who's he's I like Robbin Williams because I like Good Morning Vietnam. I liked I like his role. I mean, I think he's awesome in that, but this movie is like he's he's a man. Yeah, and he's there with all these kids and he's wearing I mean, Dustin Offman even says like, oh, you still fit into the tides, right, yeah, and

he's like and it's like, it's just it's just weird. It's like an uncanny valley or something. Looking at his face hanging out with these guys. There's also my other big problem is, but the movie is there's too much kitchy. Oh, we're gonna do this. We're all gonna clap at the same time, right, We're all gonna have sayings that we say at the same time. And then they finished yeah they and yeah the bangarrang and and then they yeah, Rufio rufio, and it's like they all say it three

times. It becomes this weird hypnotic thing. And then also clearly Spielberg was like, oh, it's nineteen ninety one, so we got to appeal to kids in this, So we're gonna have skateboarding and basketball, right, And it's like the Bones Brigade shows up and it's like skateboarding the Lost Boys, And then you look at the set and it's like the guy's like windsurfing like on a track. You know, it's just there's a lot of contrived stuff. You know. Spielberg said that he hates this movie. Oh yes,

he made the movie and he says, I it's a bad movie. What what do you think about it being called Hook and not Peter Pan. Why do you think? Well, I I want to give it some sort of light take on it. But the movie is so full of weird spirally stuff, Pegate, Jeff Stein, mcguffrey stuff in it. It's all over the place in this movie. And there's there's literal spiral symbolism. There's Hook. You know, you're I'm your he says, he's he's his dad. Now

there's the lizard man crocodile trying to get him. There's the smashing of the clocks. Yes, there's there's the fact that the sun doesn't recognize the dad anymore. Come back, come back, you know, remember your father? You know, And it's like they're lost in a psychic hase of monarch, you know, splitting all the stuff with the the slave slop, food fights, multi colored you know, there's there's just a lot in this movie. There's so much. I can't even recall it all. But there's so much

in the movie that it really. So I think that hook is like it's like we're hooking the audience into this thing that we have, I mean the baseball games, and it's like you got David Crosby and Jimmy Buffett. Jimmy Buffett was on the flight logs. He was I won't say too much about that because of the thing, but he was that he went to the jeff Stein mcgeffrey place many many times. Okay, and I don't know, but all I know he's on there and he played there many times. And David

Crosby, who's got all this weird stuff is in their gene. Glenn Close plays a man in the movie Dustin Hoffman. Is this he goes beyond creepy and foppish, right, he becomes a it's predatory, you know, and yes, to make him be his little mentee or something. Right, So

it's like we're gonna hook the audience. And also this is about hooking people into stay, you know, and and the like we mentioned last week, the kids are there on the island and they're living forever in innocence and youth, but also the pirates are there and at one point, remember Maggie Smith, she says what have you been doing? And he talks that's when the Sun talks about the hedge fun stuff, and she says, oh, you've

become a pirate. So he's grown up to become a pirate. He's a financial raider, and yet he's going back to this island so he can have, you know, innocence forever. What were you going to say about the bird's eye view of the island, because I remember like a compass or something, wasn't it. Yeah, there's a compass, and I was trying to see if there was anything else with the compass, you know, like as

if it were Rosicrucian or something. I'm sure that plays into it. But it's like, we see this god's eye view of the island, and I just can't help but think of Jeff Stein McCaffrey Island because of all the kids are there, and he's flying down into this place and he's wearing tights, and well, how many kids do you think that they took their telling them We're going to go to never Land or yeah, and you know that, you know, the original idea to play Peter Pan was in this movie.

Who Spielberg wanted in the eighties was who he wanted to cast Michael Jackson. Oh yeah, there were like two big pushes to get Michael Jackson to play this role. And then of course Michael Jackson ends up with never Land Ranch or he wants to you know, which I think is some sort of MK ultra facility. I mean it's yeah, but uh, there, there's there's you can listen, you can watch this movie and you can look at every second of this movie and there's something in it where you go, oh no,

there's all these little lines that they say. There's a there's there's the Dustin Hoffman line where he's so out of context it sounds he's He's like, I remember you being a lot bigger, and he says like, oh, I don't even want to say what he says, but it's very weird. It's very weird how he responds to that. And then there's a part where he's on the phone talking to the guy at the end and he's like, Oh, I'm just crawling up a drain pipe. I've been on fairy dust.

I mean, how does it feel to fly? And he throws the phone out the window. But there's another line that he says there that's very weird. So it's almost like the movie functions as a fantasy for these people. You know, what I've noticed in kids movies is like the dialogue is really inappropriate if you're not watching what they're doing. Yes, I'm trying to think, what was that movie with the rock that just came out, Jungle

Cruise. So there's a scene that they're talking. The dialogue sounds like a sex scene like push it harder and stuff like that, but they're trying to do something innocent, but what they're saying does not fit exactly that and it sounds dirty. Have you know? Yes, yes, And I would say

that. Okay, look, you know, there has to be a point where we can't as adults, we can't take everything as innuendo, because then it almost functions as like, okay, now we're the ones being childish when we read into that, right, But this is a film, This is this is like a two hundred million dollars film where every single piece of dialogue is written and rewritten and they know exactly the context, and they have dozens of people to read the script, and they have dozens of people to read

over this, and they know what the movie's about, and look, at that all the people involved. So it's creepy. I hate to old this movie for anybody. Look if you look, if you I'm not going. If anybody's watching and they love the movie when they were a kid, that's fine. Yeah right, I'm just saying we're looking at it in terms of the symbolism and in terms of you can't help but look at some of the

darker things with this, especially what we've just discussed with Pan. I mean, well, yeah, I feel like I do that a lot too, Like I spoil everything, like I've just ruined Peter Pan for everyone. Well, but but listen, if somebody, if honestly, I mean, if you're watching, if you were watching this and you thought, okay, that spoils it for me. But then also you have to have disarmament and you and you have to have your own method of going through things and deciding what

you think is good or not right. So you know, we're just looking at it. No, we're just discussing it. So hopefully it didn't. You know, be happy in your memories of the movie. I guess I think you're remaining some really good points. You know, you can't know until after the fact exactly what's happening, Like you said, like the piece heads and the jeff Stein Island and stuff. It's like that was probably their hey

day that, you know, the nineties. Yeah, yeah, I mean I rewatched Jurassic Park the other day and I was thinking of doing an analysis on it because, you know, I read the book when it came out. I was a kid. I read it when it came out, and it's dinosaurs, and you know, and you watch the movie and but there's a lot of Jeff Goldkum, you know when you yeah, you know, wouldn't it be sexy if we have alos erupted? Right? He's a sexy math katition, right, And like who it can afford to go to this

island where there's dinosaurs and there's the most dangerous game. Right, It's almost like it's almost as if the old guy who's kind of a Jeff Stein mceffer character, planned the whole thing to be him dangerous game. Why is Wayne Knight the scientist on the island in the tropics? Do you think that guy is going to go to the tropics? Yeah? I did a whole thing on Drastic Park when I was talking about that show. If dinosaurs are real

or not. So in the beginning of that, we talk a lot about Michael Crichton, and yeah, you're right to do a Durassic Park because that whole franchise needs in depth analysis because it goes weird places, uh chimeras, DNA splitting, cloning. Do you remember the part where sam Neil gives there's a part of the beginning where they're on the dinosaur dig and he says, this is a velociraptor claw and there's a little kid. They always get these.

The casting is very strange. Get they get this kid who's like a Benjamin Britton, Benjamin Button poet, Benjamin Button. And he goes up and he's like, what's the deal with the claw? That's stupid, And sam Neel's like, well, if I were a veloci raptor, I would take this and slash your And he goes on this like long, I remember exactly what you're talking about. He's like, it'll rip you to shreds, and yeah with the claw, yeah yeah, it'll rip you to shreds. Your

guts will spill out and then you will fester it. And it's like, dude, enough I do just on a dinosaur dig man chill I do and the kids looks like the kid looks like he walks away. Yeah, he totally owned that little kid. Terrible. Okay, last question, what did you think of the close ups of Dusty moth Man and hook with his They are doing lots of close ups of his mustaches, tea, and his mouth. Yeah, they tied a little twine around his mustache and you know,

his mustache has like a mind of its own. Yeah. I thought that very weird casting, right, I mean, I guess if you're going to get a creep to play Captain Hooked, then you would get I mean, he certainly looks the party, but everybody's too old, right, even for a Peter Van thing. You know, it's odd. I like the way that it's resolved because he goes back because Peter Pant goes back home. And then he realizes, oh no, I have a family, and he you know, he goes up into the window and he says, you know,

always leave this window open. It's like, you know, and he reunites with Wendy and then they they're a family again. So it's positive at the end, right, and you know, we see the sun and it's positive. And then of course, the old man finds his marbles and flies off into the time portal, which is weird. I guess he's going to go hang out with Jimmy Buffett and Jeff Still on the Island's name what's his name? Oh? Yeah, right right? Title? What what are you doing

in this house? You don't even live here? Yeah? Right? He was an old last boy. I've been living in there. I've been living in the walls looking for my marbles, right years, I've been watching the family. Yes, okay, well I'm not sure. I think we have panned all of it all hand out, we've covered all of it. Yes, we've done Pan Universe a pan, and I think we've made our point that is probably not a good idea to be trying to contact spirits. On

the other side, Pan is Bapo me hidden God. And we're gonna be talking a lot about that more on Rockman. And the next time you see me and bast Analyzer, we're gonna be talking about washing in DC, right right, Yeah, that's right, esoteric adventure of our nation's capital. And that's movie awesome. Yeah, go go on the tour of esoteric architecture in DC. And this wouldn't be a tour without the Albert Pike statue. I think, right, giant follows of Osiris on the last Yeah, they created

a city laid out in a Sepharroth. Interesting, Yeah, right, But I think, you know, just as the last word about Peter Pan, I think that you know, I love the story as a kid, and I think that the it's a it's a book in the cannon. It's a classic work because it functions on a number of you know, on multiple levels.

And I think it's great that we went into all things Pan, which is which is again related to this, because of all of the imagery, all the symbolism that we've covered and far as far as we've done modern poetry, we covered ancient you know, we covered Avid, we covered Alistair Crowley, we covered Mac and we covered the everything Pan all the movie. So I think it takes people, you know, with discernment to look at these

things and decide for yourself adventure novel or something darker. Who knows? Yea, and thank you so much, Jamie, really appreciate you. You're welcome. This is one of my favorite shows. So tell everybody where they can find yourself. Yeah, you can find me at Based Lit Analyzer over on YouTube and I will be back with I don't know what I'm doing next. I've got a lot of sponsor streams to cover. If anybody wants to support me, you can go over to my YouTube channel look at the about page.

You can follow me on Instagram, follow me at Basley Analyzer on YouTube. I've got a weekly movie review a series coming up with made by Jim Bob which will be on YouTube, and then Rock Fan We're covering the Truman Show next Saturday, which is gonna be great. And you can also catch me on on boiler Room on Rock Fan with the boiler Room crew and a bunch of stuff coming up. So thanks, everybody, appreciate you. Thank you Jamie all right, thanks, have a good night. Pace