Peter Pan-demic - Out of This World #35

Hello, and welcome to you. Out of this world. I'm coming to you from some undisclosed tropical location and I'm so excited tonight because b LA based lit analyzer is joining me for the first time. He's classing up the place. We are getting better and better guests and personalities for you. And he has been doing so many great shows with David Patrick, Henry Hotel, and Rachel Wilson, and he is part of the squad and this is our first

dance together tonight. So how are you tonight. I'm awesome. I'm so glad to be here, can't you know. I'm very excited to talk about this as a great topic. We're doing Peter Pan tonight and yeah, shouts out to David Patrick, Carrey Jersey, Turnal Logos, all of our friends out there. You know it's it's been fun and I think we're gonna do a nice deep dive into this one. I can't wait. You know your shows have been you kill it every time. Yes, especially with my friend

Rachel. Rachel Wilson based on school mom, so shouts out to her, looking forward to it totally. So we're just getting this cool. Like network podcasters and content shares and creators and friends, and tonight we're going to talk about something crazy, because I know I've been promising you this, but we've been in transition. But I have one more chapter to go in this crazy thing, and that's gonna be on Rock Fin But it's all about Panis.

So before we get to Peter Pan, we're going to talk a little bit about who Pan is, the hidden god, and I'm going to read you the description of Pan in the glossary from the most probably the most evilest book I own. I had to one time I moved. I had to split my library and I didn't have room for everything, and so a lot of the evil books didn't make it. You know, they got cut, but made the cut because it had a story behind it. But so Pan from

this book uh is Greek literally means all Latin ome Sanskrit ome. So this is gonna go places that you don't think because whenever you're doing yoga and you're saying ome money, pop me ome, this is the mantra or the god Pan, right, yes, what's the There's a Beatles song also where George Harrison incorporates it. He says ja ja guru devela om Guru day. Yeah, nothing gonna change that one, that's right, Yes, okay. And and actually you know you losing that book of or the box of you know,

esoteric evil books is funny. I had the same thing I moved and I lost a huge It was a box of all the like novels, all the pros. So every time I think of a novel, I can't find it. So I understand what it's like, but I still, you know, I guess, unfortunately, I guess I've got my Alister Crowley Books made it. Well, it's so valuable, I mean just that alone. It's a lot of money if you ever want to replace this one. So, but you will hear all about that on the Rock Fin Show, probably out

this week. But so Pan Home, Egyptian, Amun, Hebrew, Amen, all designations of the Hidden God of the forest, the abyss, the deep, the underworld, any region would drawn and without the range of waking consciousness. So we're already getting into the dream world, the subconscious world where Pan operates. Right, So for the folks at home, Jamie, we've already gone, you know, very deep literally and figuratively with this name and

like this is just from the title itself. Right, this is just Peter Pan, and I think it's interesting that, you know, I'm sure people will look at this and say, no, this has nothing to do with it. Right, It's just Peter Pan, you know, it's just a literation or just as a nice sounding title. But it's in the title,

and it's an obvious name. It's an obvious name, So of course I think it it's apt to go into the symbolism and into the archetypes and the mythology of that well, as we're going to find out his cult was really popping off in the Victorian era, in the Gothic era, when these are plays, books, stories, all of these things were becoming popular. And Pan is related to Nodens, and now we're going even deeper into the Abyss because he would be like a Lovecraftian type, like an elder god, like

a Cthulhu. So Nodens the god of the deep or Abyss, and according to Lovecraft, the only name elder god Steed. He survived into Roman times and was worshiped in the Islands at the Earthly Power Zone or Chakras, situated

at Lydney and Gloucestershire sows. Yeah, Gloucestershire, Gloucestershire. Okay, so Notens is gonna pop back up. Pan is gonna like the psyche in Peter Pan when we talk about Jan Barry and Peter Pan, and then we're going to talk about next week the Great God Pan of Victorian novella by Arthur Makin, who is admired by occultist HP Lovecraft in Kanneth Grant and other occult writers. So Pan, I mean that's literally chaos, right. It was where

we get the word pandemic. We get the word panic, panic, pandemonium. You know, So what have we been going through the last three years? But a ritual a pandemic? Right, pander pander, Yeah, Yeah. The pandemonium is the most interesting one to me because when I think of pandemonium, it's a word that occurs in in Paradise Lost. It's in Milton's Paradise Lost, right, because all the devils are there. They're all there.

They when they gather together in book book one of Paradise Lost, they find themselves like on the shore of you know, a darkness and it's so dark that the darkness is visible, and they call it pandemonium because they look out and it's strange because immediately they look out and they see that like they're in company. But I never put together the Pan, the Pan part of Pandemonium, including the reference to Pan the god, the you know, the

Roman or the pagan, the pagan image. So it's interesting, all right. Yeah, So Pan is the bringer of violence. He's disruptive, he's beasts like, he's sexually aggressive, He's known for overturning the prevailing order of things. So he is the chaos part of Ordo ab chaop. Right, And so let's go back in time a little bit, because Pan he wasn't

really a huge thing. He was sort of like an attendant to Dionysus, which Dionysus and Bacchus were very popular in Greek mythology, and the mystery plays where we get the idea of theater and acting and invocating gods into actors that

influence crowds. So let's talk about mystery schools for a minute. So let's go back to each of Crease. So I don't know if you want to when you want me to bring this up, but the one play, one of the ancient plays that deals with this specifically is the play by Euripides, which is called the Bacai and and the it's you know, Bacchus is the Roman name for Dionysus. And I've I learned about this because when I was

a child, we had a dog named Bacchus. And and uh. And then later, you know, when when listening to the Doors, when I was like, you know, ten years old, is when I first started listening to the Doors. And I learned a lot of literature from reading about Jim Morrison and you know, people that's how people learn, you know, get into their heroes and stuff and then go on from there. But he

would constantly bring up Dionysus. And there's a story about when uh. And it kind of illustrates the beginnings of this because when the Doors first formed, Jim and Raymond z Eric like met on a beach and they decided to form it. I mean, this is kind of mythology, but they decided to form a band. And Raymond Zeri's like, yeah, we'll play concerts and you know, and we'll like get girls and make money or whatever, and

and Jim said, and this isn't the film. Also he said, it's like when Dionysus arrived on the shores of Greece, making all the women crazy, and he saw himself as kind of, you know it modeled himself as like a neo sort of Dionysus. But one of the interesting elements of this that is inherent in it you were talking about the you know, the god of chaos, is that this is like a twofold god because and it ties in with like the nature of alcohol, because you know, Bacchus is the

and Dionysus the god of wine. So for half the year we'll say Bacchus is a party god, right wine, and and you know, yes, yes, yeah, exactly a great time, you know, so you know, the big the big out in the open, great you know, greco eyswatch party or whatever, and they're being you know, Greek and then Roman. But then for the other half of the year, it's the other side of drinking, or the other side of alcoholism, which is anger and lust

and they've had too much. And for that half the women roam the countryside

insane and tearing apart the men. And part of the ritual for the one of the cults of focus was tearing, you know, like biting men men's flesh, and they often did this, uh, you know, symbolically like with a beast, you know, or a pig, usually like a dead animal that they'd sacrifice, but sometimes it was a you know, a man or a live person, which I think is interesting to say the least, and probably probably ties into the book we're about to read in it, Like

that's kind of a stretch. But some some very dark and weird things to happen and are mentioned in the text in jam Barry's text. But we'll see where that goes, I suppose. So I don't know if you have come across this, but I'm trying to recall my Pan and Mystery School initiation, and I think I remember it's like going into the underworld and meeting Pan as the bride starts with the Arion d or something like that, and you have

to have some kind of marriage in the underworld. Are you talking about Ariadney? Yes, Yeah, so that's that's mentioned in there's like a huge text, and that's mentioned in in Edith Hamilton's Mythology. I'll find it, okay, I'm sorry. Yeah, So we're talking about secret initiations. We're talking about people assuming God forms and having rituals and sometimes you know, sexual rituals, because that is a component to all of these initiations that we're gonna talk

about, especially with Pan. He's you know, got of lust and secundity and descending from Dionysus Bacchus, who was the vegetation you know, fertility dying god. Like you just explained half the year, he was one thing in the other half. So he was an example of the you know, phallic current, if you will, because it dies and rises again and dies again. So just like vegetation. So Pan is a satyr. He's half you know, man, half beast. So he is this archetype of the baphome

and the alchemical man beast things. And also he's real and not real, and he's alive and dead at the same time, so he really embodies a lot of the alchemy. Right, Yes, I can't find Davith Hamilton's somewhere, right, it was right here, but I've got like forty books right

here and it's I can't find it. I did a whole stream on it the other night, talking about Gemini, but it's a short passage and she basically mentions what you said, and it's about Pan, you know, related to nature, and the symbolism of like the goat, the goat feet. Oftentimes mytho, you know, mythological creatures are like this. They're like a combination of three different creatures, right, like the griffin, the griffin or the I don't know whatever, but but or the cerberus, right having three

heads. But pan is a you know, has goat feet, and it like is is obviously sexual just right away looking at the at at him because of one particular thing. And that's also part of the theatrical nature of like the rituals and the bacchanal. What the horns are interesting, I mean that seems to be you know, obvious. But what about like what about his human his human form, his human parts? What you know, what is

the your immediate take about his humanity? Yeah, I mean, is it just so that we can recognize that there is a human there and that's supposed to be something like there's a part of this god that is we recognize as like having some sort of human form, Yeah, or maybe the intelligence part.

Maybe it could represent that because he he was getting popular as things were becoming more modern, so they were shifting into more like scientism instead of church in this time, I'm in the West, So I wonder if that's why he you know, the humanity part of him maybe because be like rationality intelligence. Well so, okay, so when you say, you know during this time, I mean are you are you saying like, is this specifically the

you know, the eighteen hundreds into the twentieth century. Yeah. The earliest

thing that I read this time it was about eighteen ninety. What is this one, Yeah, eighteen ninety So yeah, well, I was gonna say, I wonder that probably has something to do at least in Britain, like with the you know, the Enlightenment in the neoclassical era is you know, the strict reason strict it's an intellectual move and we get the you know, we get the French Revolution in continental Europe out of that, and then there

are huge changes in Britain. But then we get the Romantic movement, like seventeen ninety eight to the beginning of the nineteenth century is a brief movement, but it's a you know, it's explosive and it's like a return to nature and this idea of like a utopia. There are a bunch of writers, even Samuel Taylor Coleridge went off and tried to form like these communes and and you know he called it a utopia. They wanted to form these these places

away from society where they thought man could live in harmony with nature. Have you heard of the finn Torn people, the Fine Horn cult? No, what's like environmental nature call in Britain in the seventies and they have a lot of ties with like the u N and theosophy and the unders of that. Said that they made this place because of one talking vegetables there. There are vegetables in their garden. Talk to them and they had an encounter in the

forest with pan. The tomatoes were crying man literally. So that's I talk about that in that a rock fan show I did about the Hidden Dangers, the Rainbow, the New Age movement. They're doing big things over there in America. Is this god? Chase Manson? And he said that the grass is crying, so you can't walk on the grass. Yeah, what was

what was the name of the of the cult? Again, I don't know if it's finn Torn or Fine Torn, because I always thought it was Fine Torn, but some people have said it's f I N d h O R and Fine Horn. It's really a weird thing. We're gonna kill ourselves, fine Horn, because we lived for pangs Horn exactly. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. So not only that you have like Percy Shelley writing him of Pan Keats writing him Tupan, and these are written within a year of each

other, so Pan really had his like peak in Victorian. And so it also goes along with orphans that we're gonna find, and that ties in with Peter Pan and Pans Labyrinth, so that we've got all of the street urchins you could ever want coming up in this in this show about Pans. So do you want to dive in start talking about old Jan Barry, the author

of Peter Pan. Yes, what you first? You just mentioned Shelley and Keats and fine editions of Shelley and Keats here you know, both for the folks at home, as they say, if you know anything about Percy Shelley or John Keats, John Keats is a thing of beauty as a joy forever right. Keats died at twenty six of tuberculosis, and he lived with Shelley in Rome. Shelley died at thirty something. He drowned. Shelley was notable.

His poems include Ozzi Mandius, which is the great poem about like humanity, the things that humans build pass away, right, they go into the sands of time. But he was he was notable because he was a outlandish sort of rebel figure at Cambridge and he wrote a treatise on atheism. He like was a proponent of atheism, and people kind of argue whether you know,

this was a symbol of something else, but he was. I read a new biography of him, and like, everything that he writes is it's funny because he's one of these guys who like sees this sort of spirituality and then like as a proponent of societal atheism, which just says to me that he's into the accout Bolton, the esoteric, and he's against organized religion.

Man. And he was, you know, of course he was in this privileged class and they they also were the people that like Shelley especially, he was hanging out with Byron and that's how they came up with Frankenstein, the idea of Frankenstein at that house in Switzerland. Anyway, moving on to Barry, What's interesting is that Barry comes at the tail end of the Victorian era.

The Victorian era ends in nineteen o one with the death of Queen Victoria, and Victoria like dominated the nineteenth century in terms of her reign, her monarchy, colonialism. Even the monarchs of the other European nations were nephews of Queen Victoria. They all looked exactly the same. And when she died, and then we went into the you know, the Edwardian and then the modern era, the world sort of especially artistically, like really into it hard l

the you know, industrialism just picked up in a huge way. And people like Barry who was friends with H. G. Wells, Robert Lewis Stevenson, a bunch of you know, known writers. He was in these sort

of writers groups. What's interesting is that while he had correspondence with these guys and he hung out with him, and you know, H. G. Wells obviously did what he did and was prolific, Berry didn't really, you know, he didn't go into He wasn't a hugely well known prolific writer of a variety of different styles, and he wasn't a celebrity like Robert Lewis Stevenson became. Instead, you know, he wrote this play Peter Pan and then I don't think he serialized as he made it into a you know, into

a novel, but it was hugely popular. You know, he wrote this one work and it was so big, it was so popular, and he was later he wasn't just night. I think he became a baronet. He played with when he was an adult. He hung out. He was hanging out somewhere and he played with the young future Elizabeth the second and her sister. Huh. He adopted this this family. They were called Llewellen, not Llewellyn Davis, Llewellyn Davies. I think the Davis family, you know,

Welsh family, and he was very close to them. And obviously the correlation between Barry and the activities of Lewis Carroll is like they did almost the same thing, which is which is very weird and very you know, it's sucks, let's just say it. I mean, care behavior is like okay, like that's past whimsical into creepy, do you know what I mean? Yes, they're so so there's there's no like there's no you know, hardcore or in print evidence of anything, right, but I mean the context of the

like hanging out is very weird. It's just very weird. I wonder what it like an FBI person would think of these writers or these profiles, or you know what I mean, Like our guy. They probably say, our guys doing really well. He's doing exactly what he's supposed to. It's like how many red flags is Lewis Carroll have and Jan Barry happened together? As so many? So yeah, he it does act like a grooming story. I mean the first book that Peter Pan, the character appeared in, was

called what was it called the A Little White Bird? Right, So in A Little White Bird there's this character called Peter Pan who is a seven day old baby who flies around a park and comes out when people have gone home, and the magic takes over and the gates closed. So there's already this transition from daytime activities to night time activities in the park. And I'll in London, Kensington Gardens is where a lot of this stuff takes place, right,

Yeah, do you know much about Kensington Garden? Oh, I've been in the air a couple of times, looked at the swans and looked around it. I mean, it's it's important in the life of London. It's you know, central London and there's a there's a there's an Ezra Pound poem about it. He says, uh, like a skein of loose silk blown against the wall. She walks beside the railing of a path in Kensington Gardens,

and she's dying piece meal of a sort of emotional anemia. It's a it goes on, but it's a lyric poem about you know, a woman. There's it also mentions children. It says around about there's a rabble of the filthy, sturdy, unkillable infants, of the very poor. They shall inherit the earth. So I suppose even you know, later, there was the presence of like a you know, there was a clear dichotomy between rich

and poor around there, which is which is interesting. I wonder if his story arose out of like the rate of infanticide, you know at the time. It must have. Well, we're talking about a time of the like

industrial revolution, so there's a lot of orphans. There's a lot of early deaths, and some of these footage that you can see like on YouTube and TikTok, like the earliest cameras that they like turn the camera on and it's like recording the street Some of these they did in England are of the children and the children coming out of the factories that they were working at and they're just look like they're forty and they're you know, ten years old, but

they're smoking cigarettes, they're brawling, they're dressed exactly like a mini adult wood with you know, they're not they don't look like children at all, and you can just see like the life was sucked out of them at this time in this place. That's what Blake's William Blake at that punt of Jerusalem.

It's really famous. I think they read it at the Olympics. I mean they made the song about it. It's but it has that verse England's dark Satanic millsm So this is what's producing a lot of lost boys, right, lost boys and girls. But in Peter Pan it's a little bit different because Pan is the one that lures lost boys away from parents. So he doesn't go around collecting orphans. He snatches kids from homes. Yeah, he makes them. He makes them orphans, right I suppose. Yeah, or as

you're gonna see, he'll betrays them and kills them. So but we'll get there in a second. So the Little White Bird the baby goes out the window and flies around Kensington Park and tries to come home, but notices that mom has locked the window and he can't get back in, and there's a new baby, so he's been replaced and so this, yeah, this is crazy. So this that's the last time you go flying cha. Yeah. So he wanted to call it the Boy who Hated Mothers, but they talked

him out of it. And so this because this flying baby was cured to be orphan flying around Kensington Garden for the rest of his life. Right, who's gonna buy that one? You know? I mean, these Victorian things are so dark and it's funny because I have like Gallows sense of humor. It's too wordy. It needs to be a mother, mother hater or something, just one word, right, So they're like, no, hault,

little white bird or whatever. So the Peter Pan gets taken out of that and made into kind of a different character, like grown up a little bit, and in the nineteen eleven comes out as Peter and Wendy, which is the book that you read, right, yes, yes, well well this one, I mean it's it's just titled Peter Pan, but it's about you know, it's it is about Peter and Wendy, and Wendy is as a

nuanced character. Well, I know, we'll get to her, but she's an interesting The family is interesting, and it just you know, right away from the star Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're interesting because you know, different analyzes will will sort of, I think, misrepresent what the family is supposed to be at the beginning. People kind of confuse the status of the family at the start of the book, like, well, you know, some people will say, oh, this is a you know, they're not

a well off family. In fact, they're dirt poor. They're very poor. And it's like, what, they're very poor. The mom and dad are together and they're going to a cocktail party, right right. I guess they get that because of Nana. Nana's a dog. Oh okay, right, so they're like, oh, well they're you know, they don't have a real nana. They got to use their dog as the nurse. So

they're obviously very poor. But I think that's just a like a whimsical element that well, they were portrayed as poor in the Disney movie, were they No, they're they're they're well off. Yeah, this is so funny. I'm gonna tell you guys, like a cringe secret of my childhood, so like Peter Pan. If I ever had a crush or like, you know, an attraction to a fictional character as a child, it was Peter Pan.

And especially that cartoon on Fox, Peter and Wendy. Do you remember that where he was a little more masculine, a little more grown up, a little more human. I was like, Okay, I like this kid. And I actually, when I was young, I remember sitting in church and like dozing off and imagining like Peter Pan would come in the window and like whisk me off on adventure and save me from like boring church or whatever. But I was like when I was really look young, right, So

it's weird that this character has like a a draw on young girls. Especially I don't remember the show who played him in the show. It was a cartoon, so it was like an after school cartoon on Fox, and he he wore brown and he had brown hair. But I really love that show, and I always had, you know, an affinity for the character Peter Pan. And now as I'm growing up, I'm like, oh, this

is on purpose, right. I don't think that's unusual. I think that's I think that's intentional as part of the story because for me, it's, you know, like the descriptions of Tinkerbell are are obviously I'm gonna read one when we get to it, but it's obviously like it's it's a sexualized description of her. Did you have you ever seen uh, you have seen Jordan Peterson's take on on Peter Pan. No, it's a it's a short uh

you know, they called an essay. It's like seven minutes long, though, and it's funny because he's, you know, he's really vehement, and I wish I could do a good Jordan Peterson. But also the whole time he was talking, I kept thinking, Okay, his name should be Jordan Peter Panson or Jordan Peterson Pan, Jordan Peter Pan, Yeah, Jordan Jordan Peter Pan's son. Yeah, But he's like, why, you know,

why would why would Peter Pan want to be a captain hook? I mean, look, he's he's got a hook, He's like, but he's really angry about it. And when he gets to talking about tinker Bell, he's he says some terms that are pretty spicy, but obviously this is the thing. And then also then you go further and you get into Tiger Lily,

and Tiger Lily is even more so in the story. But I think that's the characters, for one, are at an age where I mean, like the kiss is you know, very innocent at the beginning, but you know, then there's a you know, one of the things is obviously that like Peter Pan won't grow up to have Wendy as his you know, romantic partner, because they can't grow up enough for that. And that's you have to understand that reading it probably not you know, very young readers, but that

is that has to be a part of it. So that's not unusual that you pete Pan was sexy, Yeah, if that's the word for it. When you're that young to be watching cartoons. You know, I didn't like have weird fantasies, but I did want to go on adventures and like be his partner, right, and will come and we'll fly fallow far away. Yep, exactly. So that's super embarrassing. But he is described as being between a bird and a boy and an outfit mede of skeleton leads. So

he's not human and he's not quite animal. He's something else, right, Yeah, Yeah, the shadow. The whole thing with the shadow, the reason, you know, the way that he enters the nursery in the first place, like chasing his shadow is is like it's it's I want to say original, but it's not original really because it's just the story of Psyche, right, it's the math of Psyche, which is the hidden God. Like, Okay, so I'm gonna tell you guys something esoteric. The ancients,

uh saw. What they're trying to do is see through the veil of reality. It's like that would cut what's it called the Flammarion wood cut where he pierces the veil of reality and he sees the galaxy, the mundane world, and the stars. You know I'm talking about. I just know they want to break on through the other side. Yeah, exactly, That's what I'm talking about. So they called that seeing the god Pan. Really, yeah, that's a terrible first thing to see when you get to the other side.

That's awful exactly. So he is a archetype also of the shadow of the unseen, of the subconscious, of the you know, spirit realm. So yeah, Peter Pan's shadow is a really esoteric element to this story. All right, good question in Egyptian lore when you you know, when they did that book American Gods, and there's a scene part of it is taken from mythology and when they die they confront. It's not said they first confront.

Who do they first confront? Like when they're about to go, you know, they have to make the choice of like the three doors they go into, and there's so who would be down there? Neptees, Osyrus, and Nubis are in the underworld. Who else is it? Someone with horns? A Nubis has like pointy ears. Okay, okay, I don't know. I'm not an expert, but I have I do you know what these people are doing? Oh yeah, oh with the horns? Is that what

you want to talk about? Yeah? I just you know, it's just interesting that in both of those they could front you know, this horned this horned the horned God. Yeah, the god of the witches also witches Sabbath, they worship the horned God. And that's the forest and pan all. He's all the universe. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's uh, he's home in esoteric philosophies. I don't know, folks. That gives me the creepy, crawling. It is creepy. It's so creepy and

like the statues. I don't have my book at hand, but I have a picture in one of my books of a sculpture like a pan given it to a goat. It's super graphic, Like, yeah, interest to see it all. I saw a statue of him in I went to Pompeii on a on a school trip when I was fourteen, and I didn't know that. You know, Pompeii is you think it's just the you know, this this citty in ruins that they excavated. But it's it's just a giant you know, it's just a giant brothel. All the all the frescoes are like,

you know, sex sexual stuff, which is interesting. We thought it was awesome when we were fourteen. But there's a but there's a there's a statue of pan Uh playing the pan pipe. But that's you know, I think most people when they think of pan they just think of this, you know, myth, like an innocent satier myth creature playing a pan pipe, you know, playing about in nature. But you just like Stafrolic, what is your problems? He just like it's cool and plays his flute, plays

with mermaids and side. So there's some more esoteric clues. Uh, Capricorn, the goat is actually a seagoat and this is connected to Pan a sea goat. Yeah, he's like he's got like goatie fish legs. Oh man, that's even worse. Are sure? So you've got the mermaids in Peter Pan, right, and he is described as being innocent at the same time and cruel so because he he doesn't have a very good memory. And right. I know that when they did the they have the statue of Peter Pan

in maybe some Kensingti gardens in London. There's a statue of Peter Pan. Yes, I bet you, yeah, I bet there is. Yeah, And and I know that Barry didn't like the statue because they wanted the statue to be made modeled on the child that he modeled Peter Pan on. That child grew up and became a dude who fought in World War One and he later jumped off a bridge. Yeah, it's a lot of sad like reality stories around this. You just imagined that that guy's whole life. People are

like, yeah, peade Pan whatever whatever, Peadie Pan. Because you have to remember if these things were wildly popular, like everyone had read Charles Dickens, everyone had every child in England almost you know, had seen these plays. Well, speaking just one thing about Dickens, because I was you know,

he kind of comes to mind with all this. And one of the differences between Dickens and this all of this you know, section of work, which is after Victoria, is that we have these sorts of characters in like especially Great Expectations, where you have a you know, a kid who's poor and then he has a benefactor who's a prisoner that he helped, but it's

anonymous. So that's like a stark difference between Barry's life and this. You have a benefactor, he gives all this money, the kids educated, he goes off, you know, he becomes a gentleman, but the guy doesn't reveal himself, whereas this is like Barry's like, I love this family of fifteen kids. I'm going to take them. I'm gonna be with them all the time. Twenty four seven. Yeah, and the parents died of i mean young. It was just a weird story. And what we're talking about.

They made a movie with Johnny Depp finding Numberland, and they like whitewashed the whole story and took all the creep out of it and put Johnny Depp in the roll. So now everyone loves Jan Barry and he's just a good philanthropist who took a shining on a family one day. But he had been stalking this little five year old in the park for a long time and like writing about him. But yeah, okay, so here's Capricorn. He goat can you see that? So we're talking about okay. So in his original

notes. In Jan Berry's original notes, Peter Pian was the villain and he described him as a demon boy. So he's he's getting a kinder as he goes along. But in the beginning he was like a weird animal hybrid who's kind of a demon. And he took boys who wandered away from their parents and Kennington Park can convince them to come to Neverland where kids can do whatever

they want. So he's a trickster, he's a he's a pagan asque, low key, you know, just playing little innocent tricks until the tricks become you know. He the pied piper right, yes, with the pan food. Good call, Yeah, a good call learning kids away and saying, hey, if we go to this place, like you know, there's no grown ups there, there's only enemies, pirates, you know, we can

do whatever we want. It's pleasure Island. It's never Land. And it's like remember Michael Jackson, Yes, he was obsessed with Peter Pan and being never growing up, which is a philemic idea, the aon of Horace, the child, the immaturity, materialism, all of that. So and never landed all. It's also the spirit world, the dream world, the other world, never Land, like the nether the right, I guess, like crossing the river what leafy, the river of forgetfulness. I mean they do

forget as soon as they fly. Yes, it's like they're flying. It's like this Crowley and you know, crossing the Abyss. They're actually projecting all right. Yeah, so you know, and he had been visiting Wendy before he lost his shadow there because he liked to hear the bedtime stories. So he's been creeping on her before she ever met him. She's a t I don't know, what's that? A target? Oh yeah, targeah yeah yeah, yep. And so he finally like hat they have their meeting, and

he decides that he wants Wendy to come be his mother. Right, So he's already we've got some issues floating around, some very Freudian things going on in this. You think, oh, for sure, Yeah, psychology of Jane Barry. So she's a TI. And then by extension, the other kids become those they ask for project out the window, they cross the Abyss. They go flying with the boy, the boy who could fly, who's

a shadow self psyche and skeleton clothes. Yeah, they go find They go to Neverland Ranch slash jeff Stein, every island right where the it's the place where you know, it's all kids and they don't grow up except for these like this whole horde of adults, which is weird, right, they're all Jimmy Buffett pirates. They're there's the there's the key for Sutherland Lost boys that are there. Yes, they're all in animal skins, shouting, bangering.

That's right. And then and they talk about how you know, when it gets to be too many people. First of all, Peter will depop the you know, the island, and then that turns into every time he breathes, they say, a grown up will die in the real world, which is he starts breathing, how he starts panting when that happens, odd, right, Sometimes he even kills off his own guys. He does because it's

all a it's all a dream to him. It's all a game to him, right, Peter Pan, Like, the psychology of this hero is pretty dark. Actually, he's what we're He's forgetful. He's cruel to the boys. He you know, like teases them with fake food when they're actually hungry. He's a very like, uh, he treats them more like captives really right, right, like a drill sergeant. You know, this is my regiment. And he brings Wendy to be their mother hungry from I'm hungry for

Mashy Pease, just use your imagination. Pretend there's food. Well, you remember in that scene in Hook where they brought the food. They manifested all of the slop and the food. We'll get to that. That's one of my favorite scene is the food fighting Hook. I don't want to I want some. I'm hungry for meat cubes and slave slope and it's like, you know, multicolored ice cream slop. Yeah, like if whipped cream and plato

were food. Okay, So now we're talking still about the book, The jam Berry Book that was a short story about a weird baby that became a play that now it's one of the most beloved children's stories of all time, recreated at nauseam and a classic of Walt Disney. Peter Pan my elementary school boyfriend. So he uh turns on the Lost Boys when they figure out that they actually do have a family. Right, So, when the Lost Boys get their consciousness back and they say, hey, what's been going on?

I remember that you know I don't belong here, that it's over for them. Yeah. Meanwhile, well, when that happens, what about Michael, Alvin, Theodore and Wendy or whatever what? I don't remember what they think when that's going on with the Lost Boys. Oh, you know what it is. It's that Wendy keeps saying that, you know, our mother's gonna leave the window open, right, She's not going to forget us. The family will not forget us. They'll leave the window open. We'll be able

to just return anytime. And then finally Peter's like, no, they won't. They'll forget about you. In fact, they've probably already forgotten about you, that's what happened to me. I laughed. And then a day later they shut the window and they said, you know, and they forgot about me. So I said something. A t R A F F I C q R would say, mm hm, isn't it? Yeah? It it reminds kept the end of that guy. I don't want to say his name on here. Ghanni Josh. Remember whatever happened to Ghanni Josh, the kid

on the on the milk crate. I kept thinking of that during this thing, because it's essentially like, in fact, what's it he taking out a window? I think he was gone out a window and and one of those girls in the Caribbean went out the window, didn't she too? One of those There was a window file kidnappings. There was a window involved with what's her name? Made No, not Matt, that's it, that's it. Yeah, yeah, so there's a window with that. And then the the

what's the beauty pageant? The girl, the little girl she wasn't taken, but she you know, they found her in the house, the little what's her name? O R M z se y. Yeah, yes, so they yeah, there was a window involved with that. They tried to say they tried to take her out the window. The movie Prisoners, I did that movie not too long ago and involved this, and like yeah movie,

yeah, oh yeah dark. Yeah. So now we're getting somewhere with Peter plan and the epidemic of missing four on one children, because if you think about the numbers of missing children, it's kind of black pill to think about

just hundreds of thousands with what in the heck? Yeah, I think I think the numbers are I mean, just the numbers that they you know, they estimate talking about Atlanta, a number that you know, end up either in Atlanta as uh street kids or they go through Atlanta is like it's like an unbelievable number. Actually, I knew one of my friends, uh was kind of you know, but when I was a kid, one of my friends, his mom, uh, someone tried to do this at their house

and my best friend's house. And they had a two story house. You know, he had four brothers. They were all on the bottom floor, but his mom was upstairs and woke up like there was a dude like in in the room, and she jumped out the window, like second story. She just jumped right out the window and ran and ran into the neighbor's house and then you know, the cops got there or whatever, and he wasn't this dude one there? And then the next week, uh, their house

burned down. Dude came back and burned the house down. Yeah, and they did catch the dude and he was you know whatever, it was on them, But don't be summoning pan. You can get all these hands out of your house, right and locked the damn windows. Jeers. So he takes them to a place that promises like a utopia of children, but it's actually a war zone, right, perpetual war zone between lost boys and pirates

and other like beasts that are hostile. And you come to find out Peter started the war when he cut off Hook's hand, and he recruits child soldiers to fight these adult pirates. So he's like the best of Yeah, the beasts of no name, he recruits them. It is odd, I'm doing a Cony twenty twelve on them, right, And now they have to fight these pirates and if they were remember where they came from. Then Peter turns on them and kills them. And then yeah, which is very like monarch.

Yeah, and there's this hypothesis that the pirates were the previous Lost Boys who grew up and escaped Peter. Right, Yeah, and so he tricked all these kids because he hates mothers because he was shut out in the beginning at seven days old, and when he grew up, he steals kids away from their family. This is really deep psychologically, Like I feel like I know what happened to jan Berry. Now in a way, what do you

think? Well, I think that part of the reason it works is because it's complex and it's nuanced like this, and we can, you know, we can sort of try and parse out the symbolism in the book, and I think that I think it's valid all, you know, the interpretations of the book are valid's. But even the hook thing, you know, the thing about the pirates being the ex Lost Boys, you know, in a

way it makes sense. I'm not sure in the end it makes sense or that they are the good guys because they also are trying to take the kids, so they're not trying to take them home. So right, that to come up in Oh no, we watched Pan We'll get to that, the one with huge as Man. So when Peter convinces Wendy to complain mother for all the lost boys, And I really also liked the character Wendy. When I was young, I wanted my name to be Wendy. And I believe

this was the first that was a made up name for this story. Was it a name before that? I don't know. I heard that summer. Yeah, I haven't thought about that. So the character Wendy's interesting and her rivalry between herself and tinker Bell. So when she arrives to Neverland, she's almost shot down because tinker Bell gave a false command. Do you remember that, Yes, yes, tinker Belle immediately, Yeah, Tinkerbelle immediately does not like her. Yeah, And it's made obvious why you know, she's a

she's a rival tink tinker Bell obviously loves Peter Pan. She's uh, you know, he goes into the nature of the Pixies, you know, in the sprites and how they come about, which is interesting. But also that she's called tinker Bell because she's a tinkerer, right, she she like fixes

all the little things. And what do you think about her, I mean in terms of not skip like towards the end of it, you know what she does in the end, she knows she the idea of sacrifice or self sacrifice is obviously important in the book, and it's really the only way they're going to get out of the predicament they're in, whether it's out of the dream world or out of Neverland or what or whether Peter Pan will will you know, do something selfless, But Tinkerbell is the one who does that.

M hm. So she's kind of a selfless one, the conscience of Peter Pan maybe the she's definitely his feminine counterpart. Yeah, and you know, she's physically small. She's like she's a light being. She's all light.

And in fact, they discuss and there's a part in the book where they are they're flying and they are going to be spotted, i think by the pirates and they can sort of camouflage themselves, but they've got Tinkerbell and so they're like, just you know, just tell her to like damp in her light, and she can't do that, so she hides like in John's you

know, top hat. But it's interesting, you know, she's a she's a being light man, but she you know, she's from this like other world kind of like Peter is. How would she have like a free will in terms of the like the paradigm within the story, right, But she ends up, you know, she ends up being the character who you know, it's as true love, right, she sacrifices herself for her love, whereas Wendy's love is totally different. Wendy's love is like a you know,

a motherly love. She's a whole you know, she's and that's great. She's a wholesome character. She wants to sort of remain even keeled throughout the thing. The boy, the brothers don't really they don't really like change. They don't really like you know, their characters aren't really elevated. They don't really like learn anything over the passage of time. When you mentioned top Hat, I was like, I just remembered one of those was he wore that

the entire time? That's Masonic? Yeah, that's remember the picture of Crowley as Winston Churchill top Yeah. So more esoteric elements in this. And then when they get home, Wendy has a generational pact with Peter. Right, you know, did she say she's that that's in the That's they used that in Hook in the in the film Hook, which is confusing, by the way, in that film because first of all, Robin Williams is Peter Pan, which is like, that's confus using right away. That's the reason I

that's the reason I never liked the film. I just can't. I just did little shorts that did it for me. His little tattered shorts. That's so stupid. And then oh and then so then he's got a wife, and you're like, is this Wendy, right, But Wendy is the like the old lady who's Maggie Smith by the way, And it's like nineteen ninety one and she's been old for like seven hundred years in the middle, right, I know, like she looked exactly the same in Downtown Abbey as she

did in Hook, which was like thirty years later. Like what the heck she was born? Like, Okay, So Peter comes back to snatch Wendy's daughter, and then when Wendy's daughter grows up, he comes back to snatch daughter daughter. So there's some generational messing around here, some curses. You got your Peter Pan demon on your family. You need to break those soul tithes. Right, We'll miss you, Pee Japan. Oh, I'll be

back forever for all the generations of your family. Chasing my shadow it's like start DiCaprio, like, when they get too old, he has to go to the younger, right, she's aged out of Peter pan Adventure. Well, okay, I want to get to the movie, but we're having fun on the book still. Let's see. Well, so you want to hear a couple of things from the text. Yeah, well, I realized. First of all, I realized that where the character of Peter Pan you know,

comes from, at least in a literary sense. And to me, he's an you know, he's a Barry takes cues from prior you know, right, characters in literature, and a couple of these that are big are Ariel in the Tempest and Shakespeare's Tempest. And Ariel is you know, if we're talking Disney, we think Ariel the Mermaid, but Ariel in the Temper I did a Tempest analysis. Ariel is a kind of androgynous sprite who Prospero the Wizard uses to you know, to drive the plot along. And he's

a he's a spirit of the air. So he's just like Peter Pan. He's also kind of a trickster character. He you know, he does good and bad things within the context of the of the play. Also another one is, uh, there's the famous monologue by Marcucio in Romeo and Juliet, which I have, uh okay somewhere around here anyway, And it's the Queen

Mab speech that Marcucio gives. He's talking to Romeo and he's he's before they go to the party, and he talks about Queen Mab who is rides her you know, her chariot, and in this he's Queen Mab has mentioned in the text see page seventy of this book. It says, this is the Peter Pan book. It says, no woman, however large, could have had a more exquisite boudoir and bed chamber combined. He's talking about he's talking

about tinker Bells where tinker Bell lives in Netherland. It says. The couch, as she always called it, was a genuine Queen Mab with club legs, and she buried the bedspreads according to what fruit blossom was in season. Her mirror was a puss in boots, of which they are now only three unchipped known to the fairy dealers. The washstand was a piecrust and reversible. The chest of drawers and authentic Charming the sixth and the Carpet and the Rugs

of the Best the early period of Marjorie and Robin. There was a chandelier from Tidally Winks for the look of the thing, but of course she lit the residence herself. In other words, they're sort of he's he's planning like famous names of you know, furniture like chippendales and stuff with kind of whimsical, mystical fairy names, and saying that like she's engaged in the in the commerce of like you know, fitting her apartment out kind of like a Marie

Antoinette would do, right, But she's a little fairy. And of course the what was the other reference to Shakespeare in there, Oh, no, one Shakespeare. It was, uh, Cinderella. There's kind of Cinderella imagery in there, because of you know, the fairy godmothers who in you know, in the film, like turn into little sort of like beings, pixie pixie beings right when they're hovering around her. There's also when I'll read the

description of Hook because this is interesting. He's kind of a he's like a byronic hero in this. He you know, he's dark and he's a well spoken, like handsome devil, and it says he's described as a dark jewel, which like is something left out of like films. It's only in the text that you get this, which is interesting. Do you want me to read it real quick? Just something? Yeah, it's I've wrote all over

the text, so it's hard I'm going to get this. We were laughing about Dustin Hoffman as Hook and how like gross his close ups were of his like mustache and stuff. It kind of like gross me on when as a kid. So yeah, yeah, yeah, they shows Dusty moth Man right as Captain Hook, and he's not He's not byronic or you know, a handsome devil at all. You know, the Pan movie gets huge Jasmin, which is still not really accurate. They like take some sort of I don't

know what, I don't know what they're doing with that. That was weird. Yeah, we'll get to it. Yeah, but he's you know, I kept thinking like he's modeled on Charles the Second and then sure enough I went back and I was reading the book and then he mentions him. He says, let's see, he was named James Hook, or as he wrote himself, Jazz Hook, of which it has said he was the only sing He was the only man that the seek the sea, the sea Cook feared.

So I think he's kind of like Captain Cook, but he's Captain Hook, so he takes it from that. He laid ease in a rough chariot, drawn and propelled by his men, and instead of a right hand he had the iron hook, with which ever and anon he encouraged them to increase their pace. As dogs, this terrible man treated and addressed them, and as dogs they obeyed him. It's a person. He was a cadaverous and

black of vice. That his hair was dressed in long curls, which at a little distance looked like black candles, and gave a singularly threatening expression to his handsome countenance. His eyes were of the blue of the forget me not, and of a profound melancholy. An interesting detail save when he was plunging his hook into you, at which time two red spots appeared in them, and lift them horribly. Skipping a little bit, it says he was a

raconteur of repute. He was never more sinister than when he was most polite, which is probably the truest test of breeding. And the elegance of his addiction, even when he was swearing, no less than the distinction of his demeanor showed him one of a different cast from his crew. And then finally, let's see the name of Charles the Second, having heard it said in summer earlier period of his career that he bore a strange resemblance to the ill

fated Stuarts. So he's a handsome devil. He looks like Charles the Second. You know Charles the Second for the folks at home. Charles the Second was the monarch who in the sixteen sixties returned to England to restore the monarchy after the protect the period of the Protectorate which was the Puritans and and Cromwell and was known as the Restoration. He was a foppish character of these what is that? Yes, so there's John Depp as the Earl of Woman and

then John Malcatraz as Charles the Second. And that's from the film The Libertine, which is a pretty oh right, because that's what Pan is about. Liberty, right, that's his thing. So okay, yeah, you've got the age of would you foppish dandies, the rufflies and the curl wigs, and what else they got sleeves little like ruffle sleeves, buttons sleeves, you know, have a French influence. I don't mind, like three Musketeers look on guys. It can be okay, it can be masculine and artistic at

the same time. Like I don't hate it. But the curly wigs, I think that's going a little far weird costume to have. Why do you want to grow up? I'm gonna hook for a I mean, he's gotta right so he's got his left hand, he's got the left hand path, but he's got his right hook hand. Yeah, okay. And also the black the blue eyes which get red dots in them, like when he's hooking someone, the red dots of blood. That's a weird, yeah, weird

detail. But yeah, you know, he's a he's surrounded by you know, he's surrounded by decadence that you know, they continuually talk about, like the pearl and the jewels and the diamonds that the that the pirates have. But of course the pirates are all like straight up pirates. And he's a Oh one other thing is he he was blackbeards like right hand man, but then he ends up worse than black Beard. Oh okay, and black Peard will come up later in pant the pan the movie, right, the live

action movie. So this book, all right, I heard that Jan Barry had this obsession with boyhood and okay, put that on pause because am I going crazy? Or were you wearing a white hat before? Like did you switch hat? Oh? Okay, all right? I was like, well wait till I put on my Charles the second wig. Then you're really how many hats is you switching? And because sometimes you have glasses on and sometimes you don't, and I like, I thought you have a different I know,

I'm not. I'm not trying to drive anybody's like schizophrenia crazy. That's gonna watch this later. I'm just trying to I try and change my look every five seconds on perfect No, I'm just it's funny. Like the next time I was okay, what was I saying? Oh? Yeah, my odd, I just can't stay still. He well, he had a tragedy that his brother died at age thirteen, and that brother was his mom's favorite, and her like comfort she would say was that the boy would remain a

boy forever. So he kind of got that stuck in his psyche somehow, And then when he grew up he became this like we were saying before Uncle Jim. They called him to the Daidis family and he would write these weird, crushed, questionable letters to the kids, like I really fancy you, but don't tell anyone, like straight up, you know that's not appropriate. What do you think? I think that's total creeper material the letter, the

letters in the first places. You know, the letters should be like, you know, I went on an adventure and it was great, and you know, here's a postcard. Well why why is a grown man writing letters to young kids? Don't even try and tell me it was a different time, because no, no, that's not so. Then there was also questions about the custody when both the parents died, so you had an intact family until this guy came along and suddenly he inherits like five kids, right is

that or how many? It was a bunch of them, yeah, and the five year old George was the one that he liked the most. And there's this whole like controversy did he change the will to make him be the one who had custody of the kids because he was like the proprietor of the will. But it could have said something like to a girl's name, and

he could have changed it. I don't know. I just watched this like documentary on YouTube about jam Barry, So there's a lot of questions that keep popping up about his like character and after the fact, and like after how you see how our lives turned out. You could see that they're very troubled people. I mean, did you have any familial, you know, ties with this family at all, like any blood ties. No. I think the story was he just met them in the park one day or something like

that. I don't. Oh, boy, that's even worse. So and we were talking about the park and what happens in the parks at night. And then this book comes out, which is about a guy trying to get favor of a young kid by telling them stories. And this is just like

the more you hear about it, the worst it gets. Yeah, it's I don't know what I've always I can't ever read about Carol because of this, because you know, his thing was like photographs or whatever, right, And I've never I've never liked als in Wonderland and they would put anybody in jail over that today, Like just because it's in Sepia and it was way back when, it doesn't make it not what it was. Yeah, I mean, I've never liked Jabberwalukee. I've never liked als in Wonderland of it.

You know. The nonsensical nature of like Carol stuff is is just like outright weird, and I've never liked it. Honestly, I've never paid I've never paid attention to Jane Barry's life before. I've never looked, you know, looked into his life. But it's it's definitely oh and then it's good. So the boy that played Peter Pan in the Walt Disney cartoon, Bobby Triscoll, he had a very tragic time too, and there was some scandals

that you can read about in that book Hollywood Babylon by Kenneth Inger. Yeah, I've got that. So there's it's either I don't know if it's in part one or two, but there's a chapter about Bobby Triscoll in Walt Disney and lots of rumors about that. And he was like, you know, the first child, uh star in the first cautionary tale of like how the industry treats children and choose him up and spits them out, and you know he like died Penny Listen unclaimed after a lot of tragedies in his life.

So this Pan character, in this Peter Pan especially has a lot of dark stuff around it. The kid who played Heartful Dodger in The Oliver Twist nineteen one, it was it was best picture of think nineteen sixty eight. The kid played artful Dodger. He also had a it was bad for him as well. Kenneth Anger was he went a child's star, but didn't he start off as a child actor himself? He was in I think he was in

Midsummer Night's Dream or was he? Well, well, the Fairy King and the staters and stuff in that Oberon And uh yeah, that's the other one that that that's a good call that Peter Pan is similar to the Puck Puck exactly. He was also a trickster. So before we move on to movies, I like this combination of like books and movies and movies that were books. So is there anything else you want to say about the actual book Peter Pan. Well, I'm gonna go back into it like as we go,

because there's some more. There's some more interesting things that are you know, revelatory as we go, just some some of the passages and the language of them. Uh, but you know that they'll they'll, I'm sure they'll come up organically. Okay, as we do this, let's talk about the twenty fifteen movie Pan first, and then what do hook And then we're gonna have to do part two next week where we cover the god Pan and Pan's Labyrinth

and like more Pan, more Peter Pinion probably too. There's so much there's there's so much material with this, Yeah, I mean, it's such a it's it's interesting that you know, Jay and I did Wizard of Oz and it sort of fits into the same milieu, but there's they're both super famous, and this one is like the there's so many very i mean just the movies alone. The number of remakes of the movie that you know, you mentioned that earlier. It's crazy and you were like, do you remember the

live action play? And I was laughing because it was androgynous. It was a woman playing a little boy, right, yes, And I always thought, I'm like, that's a little too fruity even for like a girl. That's just I don't know, it's over the top silly. What do you think? Yeah, I mean I thought that. I thought that in kindergarten when they made it, was like a badass adventurer that fought pirate's not a

woman, right. I was like, dude, I mean, you know, I want to be Peter Pan in this play because I'm gonna get to fly, you know, when I get a sword and I get like this cool hat and stuff. And then they showed us the movie and I'm like, why are they show of all them? Why did they just show us the animated movie instead of this this lady. It's like grown lady playing Peter but she's clearly a lady, which is weird. Yeah, I know. And then and then in Hook, you know, Julia Roberts says Tinker Belle,

It's like, what, even that's kind of weird. Yeah. I always thought like, why are they using a grown lady to be But okay, so that movie was just so weird anyway, But I guess if they did the opposite it would also be weird. So no matter how they do it, you know, just keep in a book. Just maybe don't creep on kids and write it in books. Right at this off at the root, all right, let's talk about Pan twenty fifteen. Probably not a lot of you have seen this because it was kind of a flop. I think

it was a Warner Brothers. It was not awesome overall as a movie. I had fun watching it for this show. But it starts off in Kensington Gardens, right, and at the Lambeth Home for Boys where Peter is dropped off. And what is the axiom of orphans is that they still have parents that love them out there somewhere, and for some splitical reason they are there at the orphanage. And so it's very formulaic. The it's also awful like it it is, absolutely it's hellish. It's so bad. The auction teams

were very drawn out. And yeah, so they drop off baby Peter and they given him his little pan pipes as his totem that he's you know, somebody loves him, right, And here you have the Victorians and their orphans, And did you did you have anything like that when you were a kid, like a little an instrument? What do you mean, like, like, I feel like little kids sometimes get like a little like you were saying that the totum, like they get like a little there's something that they play

with. It's unusual. Like I had a harmonica. I still remember it. I was like two and I had like a giant harmonica and I would just play it, like play the harmonica all day long, like drooling out of this harmonica. And he's got a pan pipe. You didn't have a I did have. Okay. So those little plastic recorders that just have like one octave on them, I play on that all the time, you know

what I'm talking about. And those bells that they they're just like a box of metal with a rubber being, but they're toned like different sizes and you're like, yeah, pong and you pick up the others bong bong. Remember those. This was a very young kid. Yeah, I had a little recorder and I had those bells. I think the recorder is like the most torturous instrument to like teach little kids to play, because you know, the parents every like for generations, the parents are like, oh, it's so

wonderful, it's beautiful. You learn how to play hot cross buns on it, and it's always terrible, but I know, but it's so fun for a kid, and you feel like literally like I'm Beethoven. With this, like you like, I am a classical Uh. When you got a recorder in your backpack, man, that's like you're a renaissance kid, right, Yeah, and you're learning tones, you know you're learning. I'm sure there's

there's something about it. I don't know, Okay. So, yeah, I was not an orphan, so I didn't have any like gifts bestowed upon me. I had good parents because I did not grow up in London in World War two. So this actually is taking place in what nineteen forty five or forty four, But it looks like Victorian England, it does. It looks like Victorian England, but it is. I think you're right. It's

during the Blitz. Yeah, and the nuns are over the top, mean, abusive, fat, greedy, all of the things religion is, you know, always portrayed as hypocrites. Yeah, the nuns. It reminded me of the story that came out a few years ago about the what's the the Irish Orphanage. I don't forget the name of it. There's an Irish orphanage where they found like tons of they found a lot of evidence of disappeared people on the grounds of the orphanage and that there are all these stories about the

nuns that were exactly like this in the movie. So that's one thing is that you're watching the movie and you're like, these these nuns are absolutely terrible. This is awful. But then you're like, oh, no, it's probably true to life. Now. If that's the case, then what happens to them is it takes on a different it's a different element because it's like

thenms like this monarch ye, psychic mind split that happens. Yeah, and that's why Wizard of Oz, h Alison Wonderland and Peter pan I would say, are like the top three, you know, programming scripts, four kids, and so yeah, you definitely have this like monarch element because it's World War two and they even call her a dirty old nun and she's hiding food. Remember she's a dead de old nun. And because she's hiding food from

the kids, she's hoarding, she is beating them. And then they fly the Jolly Roger flag late at night and the pirates come and kidnapped the kids. So this is getting weird. So they fly the Yale flag at night and they fly the skull Bones and summon the pirates and the pirates come and kidnapped the kids, so there's less Moustafie. It's you know, I also thought of it's the same story at the beginning of this film as what happens

the beginning of The Saint with val killing it. Remember Simon Templar with the food and everything. They lock up all the food and Simon Temple it's a kid, you know, the child version of Simon Templar. And he puts on the Templar flag, picks the lock, liberates the food, feeds the children, and then the girl. I think that's when the girl like falls and dies. Yeah, And so he's a liberator like you just said, and we'll see at the end of the movie. He comes back and he

liberates the orphans from there and takes him to Neverland. So the pirates come and they kidnapped the boys, and they have this like scene where the fighter planes during the air raid of London in nineteen forty four something are fighting the stupid pirate ship in the air remember that. Yeah, they're doing they're doing the dog fighting against the the n ot see pirate ships. Yeah, so the food fighters were actually pirate ships going to and from Netherland space Pirates.

Hotler's Space Pirates, Pirates in Space that's actually a Disney movie Treasure something, Treasure Planet. Remember that Disney cartoon Treasure Planet. Yea space Pirates. I remember the movie Ice Pirates was Robert Yurick. That's a terrible So when he's floating in space, he touches Saturn, remember that. So we're back to Capricorn. So so he goes to the hexagonal storms on the poles of Saturn. H learns from set. Yes, oh, what was the he comes

out with the model from two thousand and one? What was the Jude Law movie? You guys covered it was Jude Law uh Sky Captain Sky Captain in the World of Tomorrow. Remember that that has like they're not pirates but floating. I mean they're there. It's like World War two but it's the future. Remember that one. Yeah? Oh? J. G. Ballard's Empire of the Sun, which is which is also a Spielberg movie, right with

Christian Bale. Me. Yeah, he's a he's a privileged kid living in Shanghai with his colonialist governor dad, but then becomes an orphan in a prisoner or war camp and the ship that the you know, planes play a big role in that film too, So in other words, it's a motif, you know, with with these with this kind of story. H Okay, you've got the pirates. They're not Peter Pan's not learning kids never Land anymore. They're just straight up grabbing them. Now they're natural. And when they

get there, never Land is like mad Max Thunderdome. Yes, yeah, they yes, no they they yeah it is. They go to Bartertown, yeah, and all the feral kids are there, like in the canyon, and then they then they they somehow change that to to what's the last one? A Fury Road? Right with the dude with the mask on, like standing at the you know, on the top of the rock when he like he like does the thing and like the water comes out and they the same

thing happened in this. It was interesting because they're you know, he's standing at the top of the abyss. I guess where all the feral kids are. Right. But then but then it got it went into uh, here we are now and to tay you know, I was like, oh my god, what is this. They're singing Nirvana, which I don't know if I'm crazy making these connections, but that is also going along with the yogic

version of Pan parly version of Pan. You know, Nirvana and Tantra and Indian gods and stuff like that, which we'll talk about when we talk about this one. Hey, oh real quick, can you hold up the book Pan our Peter Pan, because I noticed you had a really good picture on the copy. Yeah, okay, and Berry very good? Okay, oh shadow right, it's just his outline, his shadows. I first read this. I got this one in England Christmas Day two thousand hmm. Cool,

sure, so fing edition. They arrived to Neverland huge ass man is like some kind of rock star Warlord the Pirate Blackbeard, right, What was that? I mean, like, what was the deal with the music? Because they were singing other pop songs. I didn't write them down, but they did break into song a couple more times, but they but the songs that

they chose. It was an odd selection. It was like the movie came out what you said, twenty fifteen something like that, I mean, and they sing in Nirvana song like, you know, if kids want to see this, like they wouldn't get the reference, right, I guess. I don't know if they chose it just for the lyrics or I don't know why, but never mind, they're singing Nirvana and what they're doing is capturing children to work in a mind. So you've got the Temple of Doom themes.

Yeah, yes, very dust from here. So it's like the Victorian era of child's workers in factory. You've got these themes of children in the minds and children's soldiers. Right, they took these stones from here. Yeah, it took the storms from shore. Okay, no, yeah, they were, they were they were working in a mine. I guess they're working in a lithium mine, right, and they're but this but this on they're mining

for seriously, like this is like blood diamond stuff. This is mining, like you just said for like things that power the cell phones and right, so it's child slavery. But but in this one they're mining for like a I can't really say it, you know, Dren No, oh yeah, that's what I thought. Okay, So in the movie they call it pixie dust or pixel or something like that. So what why do you think that, Well, because the I mean I see that that ties in with with

Peter Pan as a theme. Right, it's remaining forever young, they remain young because of the you know, the boys there there's an island. There's always an island. There's older never like the island. Yeah, there's there are older guys there who are older, but they're going to remain in that place. So in a way, they're remaining younger. But also they are doing sea traffic like place to place. Uh. There's psychic split, there's

the searching for your shadow. There's the gas lighting of talent, you know, the the imaginary food and keeping them there. What else they're they're in the like they're in the abyss, like the bout you know, the bottom of their psyche mining this like light illuminated stuff. Right. Did you notice that he says that when they're in the mind, they're free from life's dungeon and he grants them liberty and opportunity. So are they're not dead but they

are in like on a live world. Yeah, they they're granted liberty, you know, the freedom to do whatever. Like in the book, they're granted the freedom to do whatever they want. They can play these games, they can play war, they can you know. But the question is like, what what does that mean? What is what is freedom and liberty? Like with no belief. They believe in Peter Pan. But Peter Pan is always tricking them. He's capricious and yeah, right in hook when Who's a

Ruffio? When Ruffio dies, remember the last thing he says. He says, I just wish that I could have a father. Yeah, oh yeah, even death is too right. They say that they're lucky because you know, they have a mother. They don't have a mother. They want, you know, they want. I guess that's what the whole thing you know is about, at least just the big thing on the surface, which is that there's a trade off you make. Right, you want to be forever young. You want to be a kid, and you want to be free

from responsibility and to have adventures and have an imagination. But if that happens, then you won't have you won't be able to grow up to have experience love and you take care of other people and the fullness of life. And there's always something missing when you're a kid, because even though they're free, when their kids, they still depend on their parents to take care of them

well, and they don't they don't have that. This is like at the Peter Pan boy, he doesn't want to grow up failure to launch neat Proleian child. And I saw this tweet by a like a red pilled person let me see and just described everything you just said, because he was like describing

a high value mail. But it was like Peter Pan stuff. Let me see if I can find it. Okay, a bachelor in his forties or fifties, a vasectomy child, free by choice, travels extensively, reads voraciously, nothing wrong meeting, but swims in the sea every morning in the sunshine, enjoys the very best of life, unfettered by the concerns and responsibilities of our others have. So this is the kind of like checklist that's going around the red pill dudes for like what is a high value man and is totally

like Peter Pan. Yeah, all that stuff is great, but you know you have all that and then eventually the things fade and then you're older and then you can't even do those things and then you die alone. I mean at least when you're born, like there's people in the hospital room and you know you're being you know, they're helping you be born. Right. But the whole point of this is that obviously Peter Pan is a is a he's a sad I don't know if he's a tragic figure, but he's a sad

figure. I guess Hook is probably a tragic figure in a way, not not like a truly tragic figure, because he's he is the villain, but in at least in the text. But but he remarks on this, right he you know? Okay? Oh, the other element that you know we haven't mentioned yet is that the one thing that that the villain is afraid of,

which is the Is it a crocodile or an alligator? I guess it's a So the crocodile, you know, took his hand, and the crocodile, you can he knows the crocodile is always approaching when he hears the TikTok, the sound of the clock. So the one thing that Hook is afraid of is also time. Yes, he's afraid of the passage of time because

he know it's it's his impending doom. And yet he wants the boys to share in that, Like does that mean that he wants them to grow up, like to be with them so that they can also die in a way, The Lost Boys and Peter Pan they use they use that against Captain hook like they you know, they hold up the clocks and they mimic the sound of the clock, but they don't understand what it means because they're too young to understand, right, Like when you get it's like when you go to

the funeral of like a family member and you're five years old and you have no you don't understand. Yeah, time is on your side still, and time is not on hook site right right and there that connects it to Saturn again with time element, so yeah, yeah. Uh So they're down in the mine slaving away for uranium or whatever. They're trying to get fairy dust. The kid Pan, he has to walk the plank, but discovers he can fly because apparently he is the son of the moon and of a fairy

king. So when we talk about Pan's labyrinth, this is gonna come up again. How she's actually a princess or the demon tells her that she's not a human in the underworld, She's actually princess of the underworld. So Pan is a prince of the Neverland in this movie Pan twenty ten, Right, Yeah, I just I just did analysis of something where where one of the women was a I found out she was a demi goddess. What was it? Something not? Or it was something to do with Orpheus, who's the

one who goes down into the underworld. It's is it Persephone? And she a demigod, she's a half goddess. Mhmm. Okay, so I guess, okay, so I guess she's a persephone character. Yes, exactly, son of a fairy kings. I mean that's Oberon in Midsummer Night's Dream, right, And then they said that we're Blackbeard. He comes out and he says, Neverland is a dream from which you never wake. So now we're

talking about dreams again. We're talking about subconscious and it's gonna get even deeper next week when we talk about Great God Pan and the subconscious and when I do the rock Fin show about this and dream state and the subconscious. And Peter in this movie is a messiah to Neverland. So he is a prince demi god, a messiah. He is the one who is going to balance the force again in Neverland, right when they get rid of old huge ass

man Blackbeard. Right, And this movie is so goofy, like it could have been okay as a kids movie, but the dubbing was really lame. And I don't know that actor. He's not a bad actor, but his lines and his dubbing, they did him dirty. I think I like the older guy. What's his name, Garrett, Garrett Headland, Yeah, the guy, remember the guy that he finds in the mind and the guys. What's what's funny about that is he's like, here's how you get out of

your chains. I'll show you how. And then the next thing he goes, I'm not your friend. I'm not here to show you how to do anything, and I'm not here to give you any you know, in any I'm not here to be your friend. You want to be friends. Right, That's like okay, but like in the movie, right right, So now Hook is this sort of mentor, like this, who's the Oh my gosh, who's Harrison Ford in Star Wars Han Solo. He's like that, he's the Han solo of the movie. He's the cooler older person that Pan

is mentored by. He kind of he kind of talks like Harrison Ford too, Yeah, kind of the samples gem me bragmar family, Yeah, get off my point. Yeah. So when they escape from Blackbeard mines, and it also has like a wild West element to it, so it's Pirates in Space and also Cowboys. How did that happen? Probably they got a seven year old to give them an idea for a movie, yeah, because it's

kind of like a Cowboy Han solo. Yeah, and it turns into this journey to the Center of the Earth adventure where they're now in Neverland is like some kind of prehistoric jungle, right, and they're looking for the natives. So you've got like Avatar meets Harry Potter meets Wild West, Pirates in Space is that meets lay Manz. There was obviously you know there singing, and

that was probably huge Jasmine's idea. They probably and the natives are just like over the top multicultural amalgam of like every Mayan native like, well, it's very Avatar, right. It was the Burger King Kids Club. Oh totally, it was the Burger King Kiss Club. And then there their hero of their culture is called a pant right. Pan is not the name of a person, it's the title like lord or you know, our savior, pant these are our warrior. That was That was the producer's idea to make it

different than the other movies. And also there's a weird like West World to this. I mean, there's the cowboy thing, but because is huge Hugh Jasmine is like, he's not the foppish King Charles the second. Instead, he's got like a weird like it's almost like a Samurai haircut. It's like Stingapore pirates. Yeah, very Japanese looking hairstyle and uh, not handsome at all, gruesome almost like yeah, heath and scary eyes, right, yeah,

yeah, that was the thing. You know, we were talking about that about his eyes, and that was the one thing that was like the one thing I took away from this movie was that that just in terms of like, in terms of film in general, the the the one thing that every actor wants is the close up. That's like what they demand in their you know, in their contracts, you know a certain number of close ups because their whole face is the screen. So they're you know, they're not

only larger than life, but now they're larger than even that. And but it's the eyes that sell the role. So that's why you get a lot of bad actors in film who just looked the part. Because people are willing to like willing suspension of disbelief. People are willing to overlook the flaws as

long as they can believe what the persons saying in their eyes. So like one thing is like you know when you can tell when you're looking at at an actor and they're trying to remember their lines, they're like seeing the script in their eyes. And I thought, you know, Hugh Jackman is good in this because it did bring out a subtle thing with his character, which is that you know that there there has to be something driving the bad guy.

It can't just be the bad guy and he's there and he's doing these things. You have to you have to like not only hear him say the words, but you have to look in his eyes and believe that, like there's there's something about him that where he like he knows what Peter is going through, he knows the orphans are going through. And I thought that was

good. It was kind of like, you know, show instead of tell, we can see that he is one of If he's not one of these guys from his former life, then then there's some sort of pain that he's carrying. Yeah. I thought he did the best acting in that movie. For sure. He's in prisoners also forgot about that, Oh yeah, so they find this Disney tribe of natives and who worship their hero Pan and what they are protecting is the Fairy Kingdom, where Peter thinks that his mother lives

now. And so here is another dimension within a dimension. So now we're getting like you know, five to six D realms, right, So you have to pass through the mundane world into Neverland and the Neverland and is there's a door to the Fairy Kingdom, right, So you have these veils of reality being lifted and the different beings that live on these planes of existence, and in this movie, the highest beings are the fairies right right, So is this like is this just another multiverse? Yeah? Maybe? Yeah?

Yeah, dimensions, angelic realms, fairy realms. This is what magic is all based on contacting beings from these different places, right or incarnating them. And Peter is a well this movie, I'm gonna give you a confession, Like I was like Joe's off three quarters of the way and like woke up at the very end. So you have to tell me what happened after he made it through the Fairy Kingdom and they were like blasting the fairies with the

fire. You have to forgive me we're moving. So I was like really tired, and I tried to put this on and watch it, but it was not that good. Look did anybody watch this movie and not do that? That's known as the naptime of the movie because you probably did it too. Huh's I totally did. Totally. Yeah. No. But the just the point, the point, I guess is that, especially with the multiverse thing, I guess it's different than that because the multiverse always, like in

Marvel movies, always functions as like a resolution. Oh the bad thing happened in the world, we can just go to the multiverse and then we'll sort it out by doing it there and like having some sort of synthesis of the worlds. But in this the multiverse dream dream world is what they have to make their way through. Like it's it's it's surrealistic. There's also a lot of like inversion and like upside down walking and you know, sort of nonsense

world. In this it's like Alison Wonderland's who is falling and finding equilibrium and then the other direction is up and stuff like that. Right. Yeah. In fact, one of the big things in Alison Wonderland is the you know, the hookah sm smoking caterpillar sitting on the mushroom, right whoa tripping man?

That is in the book, there's a scene where like Hook, Captain Hook is talking to Sme or whatever is you know, he's writing man and he's sitting on a mushroom and then the mushroom starts to heat up and he's

like, well, what is this? And then it's like, well, obviously lost boys use mushrooms as caps for their chimneys, so they live in the under have an underground world, and so so then we have to like go from the dream, you know, the dream world of the island world outside of reality even further into the underground world, and the mushroom hides the

smoke reality from Hook. And then there's a whole sequence where Peter has to fit the kids to the trees, which is really weird, Like most people forget about this then, which is that it says like, okay, you know when you go to a tailor and you gotta like fit the clothes to you, what's the opposite, Like every kid fits a tree, so you have to find exactly the right sized tree and then when the kid like gets in the tree and then they can like wriggle down. That's how they get

in the tunnel down into the underworld. So like when they come up, they like wriggle up on the inside of a tree, which is very It was just very very odd. Does this sound like programming talk psychology like deeper and deeper hypnotism stuff or not? Yeah? I mean yes, yes, and and the like. When you were describing Pan, I was thinking like, this is a like, if this is a dream state, it's hellish,

Like this is a this is awful. Yeah, to get to get lost in this world and then you have in that world and then you have to make your way back in your reality. Yeah, children are your parents and the only adults are like a horrible pirates trying to kill you. And it sounds like a nightmare, definitely. It also starts to be the you know, monarch always turns into like the most dangerous game, right, So

it's the Manchurian candidate. You have to go and you're going to be one of the lost boys, and you have to you know, take out so and so in order to not be disappeared, and then you can find your home and then you can make your way back. And then when you get here, by the way, you won't remember anything that happened, right,

yep. I think we're pretty much nailing it tonight on these analyzes. They're both based and lit like this is this honestly, this is the type of of you know text where just with the MK ultra stuff, you know reading like I don't know John markin just all these people that talk about, you know, programming, and like when you listen to people like Kathy O'Brien and stuff talk about this, there are elements of it where you go, you know, or Montague project like this. This is one of the key things

in it is the programming. And I did that with uh catching the rye. Catching the rye is so odd to me that it strikes me as just like a there's another language encoded in the language. And it's the same thing with Wizard of Oz and it's the same thing with this. What was the trifecta that you pointed out Wizard of p Yeah, right, because they go beyond just the kids to I mean, on the surface, this is a

great story for kids. Like if I'm a little boy and I, you know, read this book or I hear the story, it's cool for me because it's like, oh, I can fly, I get to I have a tribe, I get to do whatever I want to, get to play war. Even the stuff about like oh you can die in the fights with the other people, it's like, well, you know, little kids play war all the time and they die, you know. Uh. I remember outside one story in preschool we had like our little war gangs, and there

was this kid and he said can I play? And my friend Brad from Brad said you can't, you can't play, and the kids said let me play and said okay, you can be mister nobody. Yeah. It was terrible. So anyway, this kid ended up being the first like person who got you know, got killed in the war, like on the place set. And I remember going over to him and going like, nope, you

know, he's not breathing. And my friend Brad goes, let's check and see if he's really dead and grabbed this kid's tongue and pulled it like this far out of He was like, yeah, he's definitely gone. All right, we gotta go kill the bad guys in the woods. But like that's what little kids do, you know. And so Peter Pan is cool like that, but when you get beyond that, because it's a complex book.

The addiction in the book is far beyond little kids reading. They you know, they even mentioned O r G y in the book a number of times. What, yes, that word is. See if I can find the reference here. It's mentioned specifically that you know, I'm not gonna be able to find it now. Oh, here it is. Here's one. Uh. This is page sixty seven in the book. It says after time he fell asleep and some unsteady fairies had to climb over him on their way home

from an O R g y. Uh. Any of the other boys obstructing the fairy path at night, they would have mischiefed, but they just tweet Peter's nose and passed on. What a weird paragraph. So he's talking about fair or gys in a kid's book, And you just said something that made me think, like, so this is something that an adult has to read to a child, not that they could just pick up in absorb on their own, right, I mean, yeah, for sure, Oh for sure. So it's just like g R O O M I N G script.

I mean, even the look on the page of the pros there's there's too much there's too much like there's too much verbiage on the page. For kids. It's a one hundred and fifty page book. I mean now probably teenagers couldn't even read this. The kind of things that come out of this time period. People like their their wholesome just because they were from the old times. You know, they can't have any type of nefarious stuff going on back

then because everybody was wearing frilly wigs in right right. In a way, I guess it's kind of like, you know, when when boomers love the boomers, we love the boomers. Victorians were so like chaste and uh so it has this veneer but so the creepers had to go underground, have their

creep clubs and their codes and their stories and their predatory techniques. And what better way than through you know, media plays, books and fairy tales or they're just straight up adoptions, like a random you could, yeah, just pick one from the park and lure him away with your fairy stories. But it's it's like when boomers are like, you know, the the music now

is so bad. It is so you know, all they talk about is you know, sex and you know all this stuff, and it's like yeah, but you're on film like for three days getting naked in a mud pit like on acid. Oh from stock. Yeah, that's like that's like that's what they sell. But I mean that's their thing. So in a way, it's we always look at the past with these kind of you know, uh, rose colored glasses, I guess, but like you said, it's it's I mean, it's right there, it's right there in the book.

So in the movie Pan, the twenty fifteen huge ass Man movie, he gets the key to Fairyland. He saves Neverland. He's the messiah Pan and the crystals have to do with immortality and his mother. Even though he finds out she is dead, she's still alive through the collective unconscious, I would say, of the berries merging together and piecing together so he can talk to his mom again. Yeah, for data is saved in the Fairyland, which is like a which is kind of like that's Stranger Things sort of event.

Right, Remember, eleven is looking for her mom and her mom is lost in the like she's catatonic in the real world, but she's alive in the you know, the blackened psychic world or whatever, and she's sort of she's kept alive because remember in season two she meets with the other you know numbers or whatever, and they like are able to help her, you know,

reach her mother. So it's different than in the other versions of Peter Pan because like in that one, just the parents are just doing their normal thing and they're you know, they're gonna keep the window open. And this one he's is literally an orphan and they, like you said, they just like

lift him straight out of the orphanage scene. Yeah, and then after he has crowned the prince of this place, the Crystal Kingdom really, so then I was like, what does this have to do with high technology, because that's what crystals are used for, like warts and holding memory and powering you know, chips, and so you've got your mining for technology in the beginning, and then you're using your crystal underground technology at the end. He's the

prince and the hook character gets the tribal girl. I can't remember, I think that no, And then he comes back and he saves the orphans from the mundane world and he is instead of being kidnapped, the orphans go willingly to serve him right there of course, to be being taken away to a place where they're neither dead or alive. Yeah, so oh that part I

forgot. That part reminded me of Brave New World, right where they go and meet John is it John Savage when they go into the outer world and it's everyone is free from the system, right, But then when they go back, you know, everyone walks willingly into their slavery. I suppose probably a stretch, but in spirit, it's kind of the same. It's just it's this peculiar movie, but it fits right in the theme of what we're talking about. And now we are going on two hours, so I think

maybe we should talk about Hook next time. Hook, because I know that's gonna be so funny, and I think I want to watch it again before next time, because that's one of those that I've seen million times. Like we had a collection of movies that you can record, like pirated movies, you know, like the vhs is that have three movies each on them, and we had about ten of those. So I've seen like Hook so many

times that I could probably quote it still. But I want to rewatch it because I know you're gonna have some funny takes on it, and I think you might want to read this before next time. Ye crazy stuff. Look, I mean, look at all of these like it's it's just a little novella, maybe like two hours you could read it, not very long, but it's super packed with esoteric crap in it. And so we're gonna do that, and we're gonna do pants Labyrinth, which is pretty much on theme

for all of the child abuse and stuff we've been talking about tonight. So I want to thank you. We had so much fun, and tell everybody where you can be found. Yes, everybody watching this, please go to my channel, A based lit Analyzer over on YouTube. Please hit that sub button. This has been a lot of fun. We did a for sure a part one deep dive, and I don't know anyone who's done a better

Peter Pan analysis than this one. What do you think I think we you know, and we're not even finished because there's a lot more, because I didn't even get to you know, We're gonna get to the mac and book. I'm gonna talk about Euripides in a little more detail. With the Bakai,

we're gonna talk about the Bakic rituals. And I didn't even get to some of the other weird literary elements like the Sylvia Plath, Ted Hughes Uigi board contact of this demon entity called Pan, the Baffamet stuff with Pan's labyrinth, So look forward to that one now. It's gonna be a good one, folks. Please. And also one more thing, let me do a shameless plug here. Check me out. Tomorrow, I'll be on Jim Bob's

channel. We're gonna be doing a deep, deep dive into Donnie Darko and actually the Donnie Darko is this is how I discovered Jay and like twenty ten. The essay was twenty ten and the analysis, the you know YouTube annalysis was like twenty ten, twenty twelve or something like that. So it's it's, you know, one of y'all's in your arena, one of your first. So we're gonna be going back into Donnie Darko and doing some deep discussion of that over on Jim Bob's channel. So this has been a lot of

fun. Thank you, Jamie. Yeah nice, Everyone go check out his channel. He's definitely part of our squad now and we're gonna have fun next week. Thanks for watching. Peace