Um, that was odd. I mean just because the last time that I'd gone to I mean, I had tended to Antiochian Church for a year in two thousand and seven. But even that, you know, there's not you don't stand up for most of that in the US and Antiochian churches. Um. I was used to the Latin Mass, and then Latin Mass you're constantly on the kneeler and you're standing up and then you're kneeling and and it was just odd to me to be in a Russian parish and getting used to,
over several months standing for the entire liturgy. I mean, I know that's kind of an odd one. But those are only two things I can think of that really were just things I wasn't used to to had to adjust to. Yeah, I think I think I can kind of not like the whole standing thing to me, that kind of seemed natural, um, but the kind of like some parts of the liturgy I kind of explained it precisely what, but like some parts of the liturgy kind of like chanting was definitely took
me some time to get used to it. Not because like not a problem that I had with chanting, it's just that I never liked that kind of music. It's not you know, it's holy music, so it's not something that is proper to talk about in terms of personal preference. But now I'm kind of like, yeah, like it's something that now I kind of like sing some hymns in my head sometimes because it's kind of like more upbeat and
cheery or some chances that are really cool. But like for the first time, it kind of because I come from a Muslim country, right, so we're used to calls to prayer, used to the asan, and that that was always annoying to me. Just so hearing something like that was kind of like, I mean, I kind of I kind of don't want this, right, but it's kind of like, you know, with in the proper
context, you start to appreciate that kind of chanting and melody. That's something that I can say for at least for myself, but I think that's something that most people don't have experienced that. So we got some a couple of other super chats, Mark with twenty dollars super Chat again really appreciated. Thank you, Mark. He says, I take more products are seeing people turned towards the East, and certainly used the smearss of aid to put up a
barrier. I think so too. Yeah, and recently using shooting interviews to bolster their positions, and that's something that they do. Taltson Shooting seems odd to me. I'll say some stuff briefly about him. He always tried to Protestantize Orthodoxy. Even though he had like one decent book about presubpositionism, he
always when he read his blogs and articles. I noticed this because a couple of a couple of friends posted them to me to kind of like, look, here's piano substitution at home in Orthodoxy and it's from shooting, ye, And I'll read about it and it's like the arguments aren't really that good. I'm not really convinced. But you know, he always tried to Protestantize Orthodoxy and so they're using him as the poster boy. It's like, oh,
look he was Orthodox and he became Protestant. But for like every shooting, they're like ten opposite people, you know, going from not ten thousands, there's a thousand people that are moving from Protestantism to Orthodoxy. So I mean, I guess I'm happy that they finally found someone they can use after like what like five six, seven years of YouTube apologetics from various people. Cool,
but that's not really impressive in my opinion. Yeah, I mean one thing that I guess what's what's sad about a lot of the online apologetic sphere. And one of the reasons I think that we have the success that we've had is that a lot of people rely on personal experiences, drama, all of the things that are bad reasons, and a lot of people are just banking on bad reasons to not be Orthodox or to be something else. And I mean, I'm sure Shooting has various arguments that he makes and points that
he makes. I'm not saying that he doesn't make those points, but it's like for a lot of people, oh we got one, right, It's like, oh, we finally got one. Oh we got somebody who's not hanging out with Jay and David anymore. We got him. And they think that like this is really going to be a driving factor in people not becoming Orthodox or becoming Roman Catholic or Protestant or something, and these kinds of things
don't. This is not ultimately what's going to decide anything. Just like talking about moral corruption, it might be relevant, but it's not going to be the ultimate reason why this or that church or religion isn't true. So I
mean at a certain level, that's that's different depending upon the system. Like in Roman Catholic theology, if we were just sitting around saying that, oh, well, the pope is an immoral person, and look how many immoral priests there are, if that was our only argument, right, like the way Lofton thinks that we argue right, that would not be a very good argument, not be enough. But that's never been the point. Nobody's ever been saying that, oh well, let's find out who has less corruption,
and let's these are all just bad reasons. Ultimately, it's going to have to come down to which position is true or false. That's it. You're not going to determine this on the basis of who can you know, pull up more drama on this or that online person. That's not. Ultimately, that's only going to work for the lowest tier people. And if you want to pack your ranks with the lowest tier people, go for it, because but that's not gonna last very long, and that's not going to give you
much strength. So I don't think it really Ultimately, it's not gonna matter. I mean, you can find people who switch religions all the time. So what if there's a guy who used to be this and now he's that. I mean, I've changed my position. So what I think that you know, when you look at what shooting is real issues were It's like, dude, I mean, how are you even Orthodox that long? And you thought the substitutionary atonement was true? Like where were you getting your theology?
That's like a that's something you should have learned within like the first year or two of an Orthodoxy. And so here this guy's about to be a priest and he still thinks penal substitution is true. I mean that's kind of embarrassing.
Yeah, definitely. And one thing is kind of relevant because something that happened recently in Rocrep is I guess they I guess they intitute a new policy or for like, if a priest is going from a different sect to Orthodoxy, they're gonna be like, make it wait for three years before they receive
him as a priest because of things like this. It was something like this, and and I think that's definitely, especially today, that's certainly a policy that needs to be considered at the very least, because yeah, I mean, this just goes to show that, you know, proper education is something important. Paula Philippe, thank you for the two. Brazilian reality doesn't really show anything, so I assume he didn't really right, just donated, so
appreciate man. Thank you. Frankie d Jay. I have really been struggling with evolution as an explanatory paradigm for human behavior. Do you have any book
recommendations for breaking out of that? So let me say that, like, if you listen to somebody like Professor Edward Dutton, like when he describes evolutionary psychology and human action and interaction at a sociological level, there's nothing wrong with that, and it makes perfect sense because all he's describing is adaptation, and we do, as human beings, adapt to things, and that's a valid form of evolution. But that's different than the notion of the transmutation of species
from a single originator. Right, that's a different thing. Now. I know that in academia those are connected, but I'm saying that from our perspective, there's nothing wrong with saying that beings or species adapt to their environment and a lot of what is evolutionary psychology is useful in that way. So that's true. I don't have a problem with any of that. Like, for example, he does podcasts where he talks about the history of witchcraft and how
feminism arises out of witchcraft. Because of the biological imperatives for the for members of the species that reproduce, right, they are usually able to get along in society. They're not abnormal, they're not they're not forced to the fringe.
Whereas in the time, say when witchcraft was beginning to be popular in the Middle Ages, this these were the proto feminists because they were the ugos, they were the nasty hags right, that couldn't get a man, and so they became they found ideological systems that would validate them, such as witchcraft, right, and so he has a great analysis of that, and he's looking at it from an evolutionary psychology perspective. But I don't have to.
I can listen to that and believe that without accepting the notion of, you know, the evolution of all species from a single organism. I mean, I think that's ludicrous and nuts. So books that break out of that paradigm. Sarah from Roses Justice Creation Early Man, who is a classic. I mean, a lot of this book is Church fathers, and a lot of
this book is critiquing the philosophy of evolution. So I've always critiqued it from I'm not a scientist, so I don't critique it from the perspective of biological science. I critique it from the perspective of philosophy. But you know, there's a good essay in the books, sort of Nosis by Titus Bruckhart that's probably the best sixty page critique of philosophy that I've ever read. So I would recommend that. Yeah, definitely recommend. And Paulo, I guess it's
kind of he said another tude. Basically probably he didn't show, but I saw his question, so will answer that. He says, I became Orthodox online, but here in Brazil has almost no Orthodox church. What should I do? I think, definitely, And if you join the Orthodized Christian Discord, now people are going to say, oh, your discord church. No. If you go to the Ortodized Christian Discord, you can find some priests
there like Father Justin for example, um and Father Mihail. These are some priests that you can contact and kind of like have them help you and so that when you get you know, at a certain point they can baptize you, and and and and all that kind of stuff. Um. Other than that, I heard some Brazilians having Orthodox churches there. I don't know which part of Brazil you're living. It's a big country zone. You know, it's possible that it's nowhere near you. But um, you can definitely contact
some of the priests that we have in the discord. As I said, father justin talk about this with him. What I will recommend you personally is do do the prayers right, read scripture, do the Orthodox prayers, um, and just you know, learn more about the faith every single day and pray for you know, you to be baptized and for this to be resolved. And UM, work on resolving that to the best of your capacity, and God will help you, you know, over time. And this will
be I suppose an experience a test that you will go through. Right, So even if you had a church near you, you know, it won't be like an instance, but like oh okay, you're baptized instantly or anything, even that will have like a trial period. So maybe this is your trop that's the way I will kind of look at it, because this isn't the first time I'm kind of hearing this question, But I think this is kind of like and obviously get spiritual guidance from the people from priests, trustable
priests that can help you with your situation. Right. So as I said, I listen to some of the people, uh in a dust where you can look at living Orthodox part and behird Bylka. He also helps out with this kind of stuff. So you have a couple of options. What would you say, jay to someone who doesn't have an Orthodox church need. I mean, someone was in a similar situation in Ecuador and he had to kind of just search around and eventually he was put in contact with a Serbian Orthodox
priest eight hours away. So but he was still able to be baptized. And they're still able to have church. Uh, you know in periodic increments, so it's not impossible. Um, and you know you can you can organize it eventually to where you can find somebody who will baptize you. Yeah, definitely. So hopefully hopefully that helped you out to Paula, And yeah, sorry for making you super chat twice. A guess I should have seen the question it, but it didn't. It just didn't appear on stream yard.
That's why. Um, so we got we got a couple more super chats. Um Alex did a ten pounds super chat asks what is your stance on the Book of Enoch? Greetings from London. So this is pretty popular, right, people like to talk about the Book of Phoenoch. Uh, well, we'll just say to this Jane, because the main argument said, all this part of biblical canon, it's part of eachypy can. But you know you're not part of the sided in the Book of Jews. So I
don't believe in sold of scriptura. So I don't have any problem with extra canonical books having valid traditions. So I think that the Book of Enoch is a describing a valid a tradition of the angels from Genesis six. And you know, if we take the Duro canon serious, there's at least three places in the Duro canon that affirm that Genesis six is talking about actual titans or giants. So, I mean, I've always had the view that Genesis six
is talking about angels, even though that's a minority position. I mean, the first three centuries of the Church Father is the majority position believe that it's angels. After Augustine, that shifts in the majority position becomes that it's just kind of powerful ancient war lords and people like Nimrod or something like this. So the giants, that is so, But I've always thought it was,
Uh, giants. I've never changed my view on that, just because of the Book of Jude And if you're Orthodox and you have you know, the full Deutero canon. Uh. There's again MacCabe is one of the Maccabee's texts Judith Uh. And one other text maybe in I forget the other there's three texts that that explicitly explain that Genesis six is talking about actual titans. So
to me, that's that's what it ought to be. But I don't like, I don't I think this is a legitimate area where people could disagree theologically. There's no you're not a heretic if you if you doubt giants, you know what I mean. Yeah, And and there's there's different patrician positions on the giants as as well. Yeah. One of the reasons I've noticed people like the giants theeries that allows them to explain to the violence parts of the
Old Testament. It allows them to understand it much cleared. This is violence against those giants, and so it kind of feels like, oh, okay, that sheds the new lights, right, But that's what Enix said. Yeah, m hmm. I mean that's one of the reasons for the flood. Is there is that so uh and and also because it sounds really cool and necessity. But I that's that's I see here. I mean, if you look at the end of Judith, I'm going from memory. I haven't
looked at this in a long time. I think it's Judith's like sixteen. I forget the Maccabe's text. Uh, here it is. Yeah, So second third Maccabee's two Sorry Jay, you're muted. Uh yeah, mute yourself please. Yeah, it's this has a this court has a short in it, so if it gets touched, it automatically mutes. But second Maccabee's excuse me. Third Maccabee's two sites. It says that it's speaking of God, you destroyed those who acted unjustly, amongst whom were the giants who trusted physical
strength and boldness, and you brought the great flood. So you might say, well, that's just uh you know the warrior class or the you know, the nimrods that want to be worshiped. But if you go and look at what Judath says, I think the term in Judith sixteen is Judah sixteen. By the way, I think the term is the Titans. So it's actually it's even clearer in Judith. Does that make sense? Do you want me to find the text? I can do that, you can take.
Yeah. So Judith sixteen says, but the Lord Almighty thwarted them his enemies by the hand of a woman. For the mighty men did not fall by young men, nor were the Titans and their sons struck down. Nor did the giant the tall giants attack them. But Judith, in the beauty of her appearance, disabled them. And there's another text Baruk three twenty four to twenty seven and Wisdom sixteen seven, and they discuss the least being Titans as
well. Anyway, I don't know, you can go look these texts everyone, but they all they discussed the Titans basically. Yeah, and you've mentioned Paruk. I kind of it kind of came to my mind. It's very much off topic. But you know, when it comes to the kind of detercanonical debates like about the dutricanonical books within Protestants and Orchdocks and Roman Catholics and so um. And this is the point I remember you making in certain wisdom
texts in the dutricanonical books, where a lot of them prophesied Christ. Right. Like, So when you mentioned Baruk, I think Beru thirty six to thirty eight straight up says something like the wisdom of that God descended on earth and conversed with men, right, So, like something very explicit like that, and like there's very different from these other dutreconomical books like that as well. I think it was from Yeah, it's from the Dewey Rayms edition.
Can see this. This is our God, and there shall no other be accounted of him, comparison of him. He found outs all debate of knowledge and gave it to Jacob, his servant, and to Israel's beloved afterwards. He was seen upon earth and conversed with men, right. So that's yeah, yeah, So I think that kind of tells you that, you know, there's a reason why these dutroeconomical books were still considered to be important by
Christians historically. It's because they were prophesying Christ. Yeah, yeah, they have. They have exactly prophetic texts. There are referenced many many times a New Testament. I understand that. So is the book of menech but Um. For example, Baruck three says, Oh, Israel, how great is the house of God? How far reaching other places that he possesses? It is great, It has no end. It is high and immeasurable. The giants that were born there, those that were renowned from the beginning, became
very large in size, and we're very skilled in war. God did not choose them, nor did he grant them the way of knowledge. Instead, they perished because they failed to attain wisdom. They perished through their thoughtless counsel. There's one more tax. Wisdom sixteen seven also mentions the Titans, and again to me, these are just I forgot. There's four of them. These are four taxs that to me suggests that if we take the Dudo canon
seriously, then it's not just talking about men, it says. Wisdom sixteen seven says, excuse me, it's Sirac sixteen seven. There was no atonement for the ancient giants who turned away from God because of their strength he did not spare the cities in which Lots sojourned, whom he detested because of their arrogance. Anyway, Yeah, five pounds donation from Louis Carroll. Think you
appreciate the donation. He asks most straightforward arguments against the papacy, any easy to understand resources responding to arguments like Jesus built church on Peter de roc for low i q lay person. So every John Peter talks about the rock or the cornerstone, it's not referring to him, it's referring to the person of Christ. The ancient canons equate the jurisdiction of Rome to other jurisdictions. Every
Ecumenical council when they discuss canons relating to bishops and jurisdictions in Rome. There's never any statement of universality in the universal in the ecumenical Canons. So nothing of the Acumenical Council's dogmatic statements over the canons. And you see a consistent pattern. You can find the thirteen fifteen page essay at my website that covers all the examples from all the Ecumenical councils of the cannons that conflict with Vatican
one. Those are easy examples. I mean the fifth councils called to rebuke the Pope Vigilius. We know that now from the Price Book, right um, Honorius is you know, condemned as a heretic, not once, but three times over. And it's not because he made a mistake he's or oh he was all right, but you know now he actually was. It is called a heretic three times over, so he taught theological error. How could the Vatican one be view be correct if an ecumenical council can excommunicate and condemn
a pope. I mean that means that the papacy is not indeffectable because Honoria is deffected. I mean, it's very simple. So these are straightforward arguments. Other arguments alike in the Middle Ages, the papacy under the Gregorian reforms, even admitted by the by Roman Catholics in the eleventh century. In the
Gregorian Reforms, you have a revolution in the papacy. So if you know, Eve's Kongar and other people can write books admitting that the papacy underwent a revolution, how can you accuse the Orthodox who want to believe and operate the way things operate in the first thousand years of being the innovators, or of being the schismatics is rom and innovated by their own admissions, by their own theologians. I mean. The other great argument that David has pointed out is
that Uniate the existence of Uniates itself refutes the papacy. And guess what, a lot of Roman Catholics are just now understanding the implications of this state.
It took them like three years, I think, to realize this. But I'm seeing debates between Uniates and Latin right, Roman Catholics on it is acceptable to venerate Saint Gregor Polmus as a Satan now right, because for years they say, oh, Saint Gregor Polymus is a heretic, but their own church accepted by the alternity off the Pope himself, which they cannot deny, that Saint Gregor Plymus is a saint, is a holy t elusion that is completely
allowable to celebrate him. And it's not just Saint Gregor Palmus if you think that's that's just it. Even Nestorious tis that the Nestorians, basically they are also celebrated in the Sierra Malabar and the Kaldian liturgy, so exactly exactly. So you've got all of these people that are heretics for centuries and now they're quote saints that Roman callis can venerate. Yeah, and something to do with truth. It's just literally whatever the papast he says at this time becomes true.
And one of the reasons why since the nineteen forties they can now revere people who were for centuries heretics is because of famous Uniate historians and writers like Francis Dvornick. He's a Uniate priest who, by the way, wrote a giant book on the history of intelligence agencies. Well, he wrote this book in nineteen forty eight called the Phocian Schism, which basically rehabilitated Photius. Oh he's cool now, he's so the very guy who was like the image of
the Orthodox schismatic for a thousand years. Oh no, he's cool. He's a saint now. I mean that alone ought to tell you that the Roman Catholic system is not about theological truth that is objective, that is unchanging. It's an evolving doctrine and theology. And a lot of them admit this, right, they say, if it evolves, yeah, oh maybe maybe Origin is a saint now, and some of them will be like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah they okay, so it doesn't matter if you teach the
Trinity anymore. Mh They call Origin a church foder old radio. They culter TOOLI the church foder Old rady. So it's just one more step left in that direction. And that's exactly where the perennialism in the natural theology Aboutican too
goes hmm exactly and what it's a lot of it. Another example I'd use to kind of like use against papacis kind of like the four Techomenical Council, where the Tone of Leo is hailed as this ex cathedral the document or Christology is not only heavily critiqued by the very bishops that are directly under his jurisdiction, the Illyrian bishops, it was the Council itself a skeptical on the document, which is what resulted in the five day Theological Commission ran by the Patriarch
of Constants, Noble Patriarch Anatolius Cross referencing the right the Tone of Leo with the writings of Saint kil of Alexandria. Right. This is an argument that Ortox have been stored to use against Monophysites, but it's an argument we can use against Roman Catholics to show that, well, like, just ask yourselves this, Roman Catholics, can this happen today? Literally? Can a pope say in a council and an ecumenical council that he didn't even call, Right,
Let's say there's an excomunical council. The pope didn't even call it. Someone else called, and the pope goes and he writes a theological document and he says, this is ex cathedral. You're going to accept this, And then his own bishops say, actually, this is heretical. I'm not going to accept this. You better fix this or I have questions about this document. And then the other bishops say, oh, okay, let's let's cross
reference this with the writings of saints and see whether it makes sense. Imagic, Can this happen today in the Roman Catholic Church? Absolutely not. It cannot happen in a Roman because this is not the ecclesiology of the Roman Catholic Church, right, and people don't really yet this And the doctrinal development point so this needs to be made clear, is that the Roman Catholic understanding of doctrinal development is the idea that that doctrine that is originally EVI, David,
you want to take this question. I gotta use the bathroom. I gotta whiz. Yeah, yeah, I'll take the question. Yeah. Sure. The basic premise of doctoral development that use this for icon veneration too, right, The basic premise is that the doctrine that developed in the in the Vay, that it developed originally was not Apostolic. So let me talk about icon veneration. For example, Roman Catholics will literally say, like in Dave admitted
this, right transhorned, They've already admitted this. They will say icon veneration is not Apostolic. They will say it's not apostolic, it was not supposed to be part of but it developed logically too icon veneration and it's legitimate because it makes sense. Right, that's the main argument that they use. It just makes sense. Now, it's the same thing with the papacy, right, the papacy did not really exist in the in the Vatican one form.
It just developed into the Vatican one form. So this is the basic argument of Numanism. So we as Orthodox, we don't believe in Numan's idea of doctrine development. When we speak about doctrinal developments, we say this doctrine was always apostolic. It is routed or under standing of this doctrine. While this doctrine remains static the same as it was established from the from the get go, this doctrine is just developed in this sense or understanding or concepts of theological
ideas are become better over time. This sense of development is not heretical, but the sense of Roman Catholic development, where the doctrine itself changes, that is heretical. That is unacceptable. And this is something that again Ybara himself admits, and I think his debate against Father Patrick. I'm not too sure, but I think he admits this in his debate against Father Patrick. So he admits that the papacy is doctrine developed. So it's that that just ends
the debate because it just means that it's not apostolic if it is. If it is not an apostolic, then it's not a true doctrine. There's a double mind the thing going on here, which is difficult because on the one hand, you have you know, Newman and people arguing for development of doctrine. And then around the same time you have Pious the Tenth, the pope writing Pacinity Dominici, where he says that the notion of the evolution of dogma
is a Modernist heresy. So that's the most famous and cyclical condemning the modernists, and he basically says that modernism is the conglomeration of all heresies, and it's any it's all the heresies into one. And one of those key elements is that everything is in the process of evolving and moving. You could have never had this without the papacy first innovating and being an evolving institution. Back
in the Gregorian reforms. This is even argued by Roman cathoe theologians now like the Eaves Kongar in his I think it's his nine hundred years together or something like that, so admitting that, yeah, we underwent evolution, underwent massive renovation and change in the church, by which they say this is a good thing. But then by the time of Pious the Tenth, when this is being used in quote liberal ways, he says, no, no, we
got to get rid of this idea the evolution of dogma. And they'll try to come out with a million different Scholastic evolution is not development to those are different things. Let me give you a new made up scholastic different. Now it doesn't work. It's the same principle because either the dogmas stay the same or they don't. Yep, and let's go to the next question. Heard and five dollars, super Chat asked, is Eastern Orthodox closed to rejoining it?
Orientals or Roman couple are splitting in two? I won't say there's any chance of being they're being splitting in two, but I think it's referring to Moscow's schism. My take is that it's rather the Orientals and Roman Catholics that are supposed to be rejoining the Orthodox Church. We're not the ones. We're not the ones that change, We're not the ones that became a different church.
It's rough out of the other ones. And I don't think there's going to be an institution institutionalized union between the Orthodox and the Roman Catholics, like on a real scale. What is really going to happen is that Roman Catholics Orientals are going to come back to the true Church. Though there's also twenty twenty five nice stuff which which by the bay as someone who has been there. It's a very small city. I don't I don't think it's going to
house that a lot of people. It does happen, but if it does happen, but yeah, I don't think it's It's just what's coming in twenty twenty five is a repeat of this, a new false Florentine union. And David cover this video several years ago. I mean, it's going to cover this book several years ago. I recommend this book because you'll notice the parallels between the geopolitical pressures at that time to have this false union and the exact
mirror geopolitical pressures in our day to have this false union. So that's what's going to happen in twenty twenty five, unless it's just totally unpopular, right, I mean, if they keep pushing for this kind of thing and nobody buys it, they'll just wait and you postpone it to try to have this false union. And yeah, Rigovic sends five pounds, appreciate it, U five pounds, supertract Rich dream Jay, any chance we can do half the
tour in Italy? So is that is that an option that can be used, like having half of the tour for people who just wants to do that, you can just message a father Vladimir. I don't know, so he's the organizer, I don't. I mean, I'm you're a free human. I mean, I'm sure you could do whatever you want. So you know, you can come and go and show up. I guess you want to. But in terms of like staying at the places that he's organizing, hotel wise or whatever, you'd have to ask him. I don't know. Yeah,
yeah, I'm just attending. I don't. I don't have anything to do with organizing. But you can just ask him. Yeah, Max the Confessor attend dollars, supertracts think you. Max Lofton is strange. He treats Orthodox, it's a couple of discord servers, some archbishops and think to none of it has to do with parish life, and he treats us like we
have RC. Ecclesiatra. I definitely agree what he It's the typical case of trying to frame your opponent by taking the worst case examples of that view while completely ignoring the actual essential aspects of that view, by forming a completely different opponent and just battling that he's not really attacking ortodox because he's not interested in
covering Orthodox. He's really just interested in growing his own image, trying to make himself look good, trying to become this channel, and just trying to use these indecent tactics to draw low quality people, because it's only low quality people or people who have no clue, like generally have no clue that's going to be attracted to this kind of low quality appologies. But the thing about the Internet is that it just takes a couple of clicks to know what the
truth actually is. Yeah, that's a great way to put it. I mean, you know, he's been at this for so long, relying on drama because he knows that he'll get you know, he'll get more. He'll get three times more views covering us from a drama perspective than he does when he tries to do his own boring, unwatchable theology talks, which again get like eight hundred views. So he'll get like seven thousand views if he does
something based on drama. But the problem is that that he hasn't still figured out that drama streams aren't gonna get you a like David said, consistent intelligent watcher base that's gonna get you a low tier drama basse. And when you try to base streams around drama. I saw this when you know, there was blood sports period when Andy was was basing his channel around blood sports.
You can get a quiet you can get a growth spurt from that, But that audience is not there for serious theological you know, historical documentation, transformation of their life. They're there for the drama, and then once the drama is not cool, they move on. So it's a it's a it's a come and go audience. And uh, you know, the majority of his rambling and oft repeated replies are simply that orthodox. He's got problems too. You got problems too, Yo, Look, they got problems. I mean
if our argument was we didn't have problems and you've got problems. Hut. Yeah. If our argument was that we have problems, he has problems and we don't, that might be a sufficient response. But the argument has never been that. It's always been the nature of the problems. For example, if your system is built on the papacy, and the papacy is an institution that is defected and taught heresy, then that problem is a unique problem which
destroys and cancels out that whole system. Right, That's different than saying there's a bunch of corrupt and skittles priests in Rome, and there's less skittles priests in Orthodoxy, Therefore Orthodoxy is true. But like you said, the majority of his stuff is just straw man like knocking down positions that we don't hold or that we don't adhere to. He finds like one random Orthodox person saying something and it's like, look at this Orthodox du Look I knocked it down.
Bro ha ha, Look all right, that's like it's that low tier. So um, let's see. I mean what you remember his defensive pache Mama. It's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember even responding to that. His his his argument was literally, no, Pope Francis believed it was the Virgin Mary, and that's what it should be considered to be. And if you believe that it is the paka Mama demon, then you're committing grievous mortal sin. First of all, who are you to designate
who is committing what kind of a mortal sin? Whatnot? You're just a fat idiot. Secondly, is that this completely goes against psychnographic theology, because the whole idea of the likeness between an image and what it is depicting is that it depicts the thing that it is supposed to be depicting. So if you have a water I use this exactly example, if you have a water bottle and you say this water bottle is actually an image of this pencil,
then you're an idiot because they have nothing. They don't have anything in common, and in that, in that they're both objects. So yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean this looks to me Mama is a woman marries a woman. Therefore the same, Yeah, it has nothing to do. They basically have nothing to do and for most part between each other. It's the same thing that the Paca Mama and the Virgin Mary paka Mama is a demon conjured up by the imagination of a bunch of you know people in in
America. The Virgin Mary is an actual, historical a woman who gave birth to God. That's a huge difference, and they look very different, They're depicted in very different ways, they have different characteristics. And again it's what Saint Theodore the Student says, as you pointed out, what is the you know, the the image depicts the person, right, and so it has to have personal likeness. The pacamama has no personal likeness with the Virgin Mary.
They're completely his whole unlated word concept fallacy over imagery. There is the whole basis of Roman Catholic syncretism. Yeah, and they they you know, they defend in culteration, which is just an idiotic practice for what they called the basis. Exactly, they make images of idols and they say it's Christ.
That's that's like saying that's like making an image of Zeus and saying it's it's it's the Father, which ironically there's actually in the semi Techomendical council Um, there was an instance that they cited a life of a saint where in that instance someone was making an image of Christ, but it was like the image of Zeus, and the icon writer his hand basically stopped. He couldn't write it properly because it was and I it was it was an image of
Zeus. It wasn't an image of Christ, right, and so he had to edit the image. And I talk about this in my video and icon Innovation. I mean, this is right. The natural theology premise is premised on the idea of the theistic fallacy that because there's commonalities, the reference is the same. But you just show how absurd that is. Like the fact that Pacha Mama is female and the fact that Mary is female. It does not equate to the same reference because they share characteristics. This is just so
stupid. Oh, pokemona pregnant. So yeah, that it's just all of these like like similarities. I just I mean, just think about natural theology, right, there's a common monotheism because they all believe in one God. Okay, so if I believe that the one God is satan Am I part
of the monotheistic tradition, why not exactly? Well, no, you see, there's got to be these other Okay, but see now it because it gets to be arbitrary as to what it has to have these specific properties, these essential properties, but not these But well, if you're a Christian, one of the essential aspects of God is that he's a trinity. So and that that already kind of does not work with the so called monetistic system. But you know, at the end of the day, you know, let
Roman Catholics say that we worship the same God at Muslims too. I guess that's because now they're defending that. I mean, it's quite right, because the Vatican, that's no stra autata is Vatican to theology. Because when I've like when I looked into like religious discourse for the first time and I had
a traditionalist disposition all this this kind of stuff. I looked into this kind of stuff and I looked at Roman Catholics and they will talk about, you know, if you don't believe the Roman Catholic dogma, you're not part of true faith. And it sounds really you know, it appealed to me a lot, like I really started respect Roman Cavolson because of this attitude. And then I will just see stuff like oh, by the way, we worship the same God as Muslims, by the way, and if you don't believe
that, you're heretics, like what that that doesn't make it. That's that doesn't make any sense. And any argument they make they use, it's just kind of like these flimsy arguments like oh, well, Paul talks about the un known God and that means the Pagans worship actually worship the Father, so you which is like says you don't know him, that's why it's called the
unknown God. If he was teaching natural theology, he would say the known God, yeah, exactly, and these it They just use these flimsy arguments. That doesn't really well. I'll think about once again, how many people get tripped up on the word concept fallacy. This is just a version of word concept fallacy as applied to iconography and imagery. I mean icons imagery. All of this reality for us is iconographic, right, Everything is iconographic for
us, the whole world. And that's why making the mistake in theology theological discourse from words and sentences of word concept fallacy is the exact same mistake that the Roman Catholic is making with religious imagery in a word concept fallacy, same move, same mistake by confusing commonalities with identical reference, the fact that those commonalities does not mean that the reference are the same. Let me give you
another example. If I say, this is the example I use, I think in I can't remember it was one of the livestream anyway, But I say, I'm going I have treasure buried at the Promised Land in the underground of the Promised Land, and you fly over to the Holy Land, and you find where you think I'm talking about, and you dig up and you find out, oh, there's nothing there. Now, I gave you a
place. I gave you a location, a precise name. I gave you treasure, you know, a specific reference, all of this, and you find out, oh, no, I wasn't talking about the Holy Land. I'm talking about the evangelical bookstore down the road for me that's called Promised Land. And I buried twenty four gold bars in the basement there. So think about all the cominaloities that were there, right, the name, the reference,
the gold is there. I mean, you had all these specifics right that you thought was a place, and it was a totally different place. So does that not illustrate the fact that just because there's common properties doesn't mean the reference is the same. It's just like so obvious. I can't believe anybody would think that. And it's a baden switch, right. It's like, oh, Muslim, you and I we worship the same god because we
both call upon one God. And then all I do is I say, well, what about a theistic Satanist who calls upon Satan as the one God? So clearly one God doesn't refer to the same God just because it's quote one God. This is really simple. Yeah, And even as you said, even the common properties like oh, omnipotent, omniscients, et cetera, et cetera, they don't do it. Yea, you have at the same idea. That's because in our theology you can't have you can't scale down the
divine attributes and have the same reference. For example, when Basil's arguing with Eunomius, and Eunomias says, I believe in Father's Son and Holy Spirit. You believe in Father Son and Holy Spirit. Does debate if we just took that phrase, would that mean that Basil and Unomius have the same God. Of course not, because what Unomius means by father son is Spirit is totally
different from what Basil's saying. So the fact that it's the same words, and even though there's some overlap, Unomius could say I believe in the three omnis. Did Basil believe in the Unitarian concept that Eunomius has. Of course not, And everybody can recognize this, Okay, Well, then the same applies to Mauslims and Jews when they have a Unomian concept of the one God.
And that we don't have that deity. And I think, especially at the point about same Basis against Unomus, one of the things he argues is that, well, we have knowledge of God because of the things that come down to us, and that allows us to have direct knowledge and perception in some senses of God, whereas you have this understanding both in Unomus's view and the other unitary views, where like it's like it's just this merely conceptual idea,
just something you conjure into your mind, and you just have some similarities between these conceptual ideas that you have in other people, and you say, well, we actually thinking the same exactly because it has some attributes are in common between these conceptual ideas, where the same basiness thing, No, we have experience with God as Orthodox Christians as well. There's also that caveat of this kind of practical aspect of same basis theology as well. It doesn't really
exist in these other religions either. Next question, right, I mean there's a fine line between saying, yeah, if you look at pagan religions, there are commonalities with ideas in you know, Christianity, but that doesn't equate. I mean, this is the same argument that like perennialists make or that freemasons make that, oh, well there's commonality, so it's all the same religion. It's it's it sounds really strange to me that like people people defend
this. But anyways, next question is love and NBA ten ten euros super chat. Appreciate it. Thanks for the great work you do. I know that it is not part of your typical repertoire, but think about doing a stream on the importance of reading the lives of saints. They are not emphasized
enough. Well, from my perspective, will basically answer the reason why it's not emphasized enough here is because well, first of all, there are other channels to emphasize it much better base and these are people that have alternity, like priests, monks, clergy, they are good at that. There's also
channels, like there's different channels that talk about lives of saints. I'm not opposed to reading or talking about them, it's just that it's something that I myself, I considered myself as student in that and I unless it is for my own personal benefit, like just like reading it and then teaching it just
to like understand it. Better. I don't really plan on talking and it's it's it's again, it's something that I just think it will be strange for me to kind of do videos about that content the same view, because I've always noted and explained my limitations and the sphere of what I cover, And like David said, you know, the whole point of this is not for you to intellectually sit around and think about these things, but going into the
church. And when you go into the church, you will have ample opportunity to invest your time and your efforts and your attention into those things because your priests and your spiritual father will be guiding you in those things. So my channel is never going to be a a guru spiritual guide channel because that's not
what I do. And everybody knows I've always said that I don't do that, and so I stick to the lanes in which I can speak to you know, ideas with proficiency, and it's not my job to be your moral guide or your guru or and it just to me. It really there's a
fine line there. I don't know how exactly to balance this, but over the last several years, I've seen a lot of people who you know, maybe they're good intentions, but they turned their channel or their Twitter or their outlet into this manifestation of how much they pray and pray with me and look at all this piety and look at all and these people. I mean I'm not saying everybody, but sometimes people go nuts and it just irks me.
Like even when people do live streams and they're like really preachy, that's not me. So you know, you will get enough of that when you come into the church and when you have a spiritual father who will be dealing with you on a weekly basis as you go to communion and as you confess your sins, and he's going to tell you what saints to read that are appropriate to you. So you need to be looking for these types of things from
your spiritual father, not from internet people. Yeah. I mean, if anything, I think it will be suspicious if you talked about spiritual issues all the time. I think that will be genuinely suspicious in some sense because it's not it's not a it will be like it will be like a YouTube person talking about giving financial advice. I mean, it's just not there. It's just not their lance. So if I'm going to say something like spiritual it's always going to be perfect, but I say it or not. But not
spiritual advice, because there's someone that has that authority that can do. All I can do is point you to direction and the lives of saints. What's important is that you know, if we do live in a time where there's a lot there's not a lot of people who can give spiritual guidance. It's built still people that you know, spiritual fathers and stuff. There's still priests and all of that. But the lives of are the saint help us direct us to the royal path in that sense if we're missing that. But as
I said, it's like what am I gonna do? Am I going to give an analysis of the life of Saint Anthony? I mean I can't really, like I will be uncomfortable doing that. Whereas but dogmatic stuff, that stuff interests me. I think I have the mind to comprehend it and tell it to people and to kind of convince them using it. And that's kind of like how I use what I am decent that I think it's just also
an optimization thing. And unlike other people, because some people they like, you know, the spiritual mystical aspect of Orthodoxy, and so because they like it, they have to be in opposition to the dogmatic aspect to it, which and they say, oh, you know, that doesn't matter, which actually doesn't matter. You kind of have to know a little bit about it. At the very least, you don't have to, you know, hate what I or Jay do or other people do. You can just say that's
not my thing. My thing is this. I respect that. Likewise, it's kind of like some people are in tune with the dogmatic stuff and they still have to do look into this mystical stuff. I think we both have to deportos into the both aspects, right, the mystical and the scholastic aspect of the Orthodox fate. But some of us can have preference in an affinity towards one aspect of it more than the other. That's not bad. That's just you know, personality, right, It's a personality thing. That's how
I see it. So I think some people take it too far and try to denigrate the other time. Most of the time I see people denigrating those who focus on the dogmatic aspect of the more than the other one, because that seems to be more acceptable to do nowadays. So I think that's completely wrong and I will recommend people not to have that kind of an approach. Next super Chat, William Kane asks do you believe there are neutral spirit beings
like faithful gnomes, trolls, goblins or the old demonic beings. I don't. I can't answer this question. I can't ask I don't. I mean, all those things sound pretty demonic to me, so yeah, but just kind of like like neutral spiritual beings to me. It's uh. Most I know is Saint John Damascus talks about ghosts, but he says ghosts aren't real. So he says ghosts aren't made up. But then in the same work he says dragons are real by the way, which is um, there's there's
that's like a short PDF of it going around. Other than that, I don't really, I don't think I can really answer that question, William. Um. I mean I would say the tendency of you know, when you read people who talk about these kinds like people who take d MT trips or you know, people who do LSD and they encounter these kinds of entities that are elves or whatever. I mean, they typically are saying pretty demonic stuff. So that's a pretty good sign. M Yeah, I noticed that too.
Oh you're gonna you're gonna like this one. Jay, this is a really a person who is very mentally healthy and someone who can totally be very respected. Gave us a super chat. I can't believe I'm sending money to heretics, no refunds. But how can I debate you Nestorian heretics. I'm Coptic and want you to join. Well, we're already in the Orthodox Church. We will want you to join the Orthodox Church. But I think I
have a couple of tips. First of all, three, people with respect, especially people you don't know, because if you just go guns blazing, we're not going to really tell you seriously. As I said, take you for the money, no refunds. Number three, we do have free time on discord sometimes where we have open Q and A and we talk with people. And if you want to debate at that moment you want to find that opportunity, you can use that opportunity. But you're not I seek after a
debate. Two times I've regretted the one time that I did it and I realized that it's not I shouldn't be seeking to debate some random person because it's not just not going to work out. I have obligations, responsibilities in my life. I don't have complete free time where I can debate just people who ask me to do. You know, and the fact is you're just some unknown dude who speaks in a very mentally unhealthy manner. Bib will we take
this seriously? But I really, I really do appreciate the money that you that you're sent that that definitely really really you know, I'm going to enjoy spending that for sure. You have anything to say, I think over the last four or five years, we've given ample opportunity with hundreds of hours of people to come to freely challenge and debate. We've done this in discord,
We've done it on Twitter, I've done it on live streams. So the idea that you know, you're you haven't the people haven't had the opportunity to do this is just simply not true. Maybe you're new to what we talk about, and if that's the case, I mean you can request us to come in the discord or to set up a discussion with me or David and
maybe down the road we can do that. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we have discord sessions where we talk with people and answer their questions or debate if anyone shows up, and if they don't show up, that's their loss. I mean, as I said, we both are busy people who don't have infinite free time. So but it seems like you do have a lot of free time. But I mean, hopefully you find something to maybe you can use that free time to listen to my playlist and actually learn about
or time. I mean, David, you've done two or three in the past debates with you know, people of that persuasion. Yeah, and and those debates for I didn't have to do those debates. I seek those debates knowing that it didn't profit me, and I went through those because it was risky or et cetera, et cetera, whereas these are unknown people. And at the end of the day, it worked. But it's like, especially the second debate was just not even a proper debate. It was disrespectful to
the whole idea of a debate. So I just learned my lesson that I had to be more, I had to have higher standards or otherwise it's just going to be just low bi Q snooze fists. But that debate worked at the end of the debate as well. So next question is Max of wait he already have you already looked at this? Have you heard of this? Like appen of Jesus, argued quetzal Quatl was St. Thomas the Apostle,
I've ever heard of this before? Or I mean, I don't know about that specific example, but I mean I was looking into jesuit um the culturation when we did the Apocalypto stream because in the movie Apocalypto, Uh, they make reference to various Mayan in in you know, Mexican deities that our goddesses, and they built the Chapel to the Virgin where Juan Diego, you know,
supposedly had the miraculous Mary apparition or whatever our lady Guadalupez. What I'm trying to think of, um and uh, you know, the irony, of course is that it's really just an appropriation of the goddess worship that's referenced in the movie Apocalypto at that site. And when you listen to what the goddess called for, the irony is that she's obviously demonic, right, this entity is demonic because of the she got mad supposedly when they tore down her
goddess temple and they were going to build a church. Well, now, wait a minute. If she gets mad that the church is being built to the Virgin, then you can't say that the goddess indigenous goddess worship was preparing for the Virgin like they they're two different things. So um, I'm not surprised that Jesuits to do that, because the whole idea again of inculturation is
to play a kind of abate and switch, right. I mean, I think there is a valid Orthodox approach to inculturation, which Innocent of Alaska did with the but it doesn't trade on these bait and switch ideas that Pacha Mama is marry the other a super chat. I think you couldn't like this one, Frankie D five dollars super chat. J. Do you ever do Christopher Vulcan impressions? Yeah, but it's not very good. He's for some reason,
he's really hard for me to do. But if you go and watch the video that I did maybe five years ago, I have celebrity impressions, and I think there's two of them, and Christopher Walking is in both of those. I'll spare you right now because I haven't worked on it in a while. I mean, come on, man, he you know he made a super chat. You gotta try, right, you gotta try it a little bit at least. I don't know Christopher Vulcan, but i'd like your
impressions. So just to go watch the video because it's better in the video than I would be able to do it right now? All right, all right, well that's what what video we're talking about again. I can maybe link that and him Jay Dyer Celebrity Impressions, It'll come up. And I think I'm pretty sure if Walking is in there, Um, is it the fifteen vacky celebrity impersonations in nine minutes one? Or is it the best? It's the one that has nine nine thousand views from three years ago? All
right? Yeah, yeah that one right, I'll I'll post it at light Chat. So yeah, I think Chris walkins in there, Frank, you can see it. And I think a lot of my impressions are better than they were back then, Like I've a lot of these people. I've gotten better since then. Yeah, Chrisia Walking is in there. M all right? All right? Cool by the way, we have a live event.
I'll be doing impressions this weekend at a big event in Nashville. So if you're in the Tennessee area or the surrounding states and you want to come to uh this weekend, it's a two day event. Chase Haggard will be there playing music. His Gyp Gypsy Jazz duo will be there. I'll be there. That big pop star dude, Jim Levy will be performing. He's had a munch of number one hits on pop radio. Uh, there's a whole bunch of people. Um Harrison Smith owen. Um, I think Rachel is
coming down there. I don't. I don't think Rachel's speaking. But ah, so if you're in, if you want to come to this Rebels for Cause, come down and see that this this weekend Rebels for Cause dot com, get your tickets there. I think she's discounting some of the tickets now too. So since we're getting close to the end, all right, all right, sounds sounds good. Um. Other than that, it seems like, all right, well, Matt, I this this stream ended up just
being like a massive orthodox CQ and a stream. But that's that's fine. I mean that's always that's always cool. Um. I think it's definitely beneficial for a lot of the people as well. UM, definitely appreciate the support. I mean massive amount of use obviously because of this guy right here. But UM, really appreciate you coming here, mister J. I gotta get something, mister j J. Soy Dyer. Um, so if you if you come to our live event in California, you'll see this guy up here.
So uh, oh my gosh, I need to spend money on consumer goods please, I need to spend money. Oh yeah, you know what I'm gonna use that. I'm gonna use Adams money to buy funk pops. There you go your fun No exactly, yeah, um uncle cop func gonna be pretty difficult because I don't think Funco cops com Funco cops. All Right, I realized just now, funk you got? You got Funco cop Bro, You're you're a ne story. How can I funk funko Storian? You're
a funk Storian piece of crap? You got Funco copped? Anyways, I don't think you have Funko pops here in Turke I've never seen one. But um, I remember that you're consider yourself lucky that that contagion doesn't spread. I remember going to um, like a like a nerds store, I like not even gonna call it like a comic store, Like it's a Nerds store in England, and um, they were like massive shells, like complete like
massive shells dedicated to Funko pops. And it's like to me, it's like insane, Like I mean, it's like just I don't know why people like it. It's I don't I'm not gonna be that's sad. I mean it's just I don't know, you know, man in the in this country or you know, we were gonna talk about men's stuff, but we ended up in theology. That's fine with me. But um, yeah, I mean that's just a different time. It's just a yeah, a sign of the decay and the cancer of you know, the West, that it's turning into
this ridiculous thing. Yeah. I mean back then, there used to be collector items, like people will collect specific things and that was kind of like a cool hobby. But now it's just like buying something from their like about their favorite superheroes, the Cape shit nonsense, which they're like producing a lot of that stuff. And and have you noticed like there's a lot of movies coming out and games coming out that's just the repeat of the previous popular ones,
like yeah they're supermakes now, yeah it's weird. Yeah. I think the thing with Funco Pops is the thing that really makes me mad is that, you know, we used to have a lot of bookstores in cities that you muted jusif accidentally every time I would go to a new city. Uh, you know, I like to go to bookstores, and and nowadays bookstores are basically just like Funco pops and toys and knick knacks and trinkets. And I mean, to me, it's just like a sign of I don't know,
some sort of weird apocalypse or something. I'm not literally saying it's into the world, but I mean it's just sad that we can't have, you know, bookstores and people interested in you know, education, real information. Everything's replaced with just just relate. By the way, the reason that I have some people are wondering is that in the live events that we do, I actually have a debate with the funk a Pop. So the Funko Pop and I have a debate and then um, basically, the funk O pop
gets destroyed. So put it that way. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's crushed, is what I'm saying. All right, well we got it. We got a super shock while we were talking about the Funco Cops bunch of I spend five dollars. How do you defeat the argument that, since the Bible is written by man, any interpretation of it is all just a
matter of opinion, Well, just because something. And first of all, the fact that something is written by a man, I mean all books are written by men, and all books are then interpreted, So the fact that it's interpreted has nothing to do with it being opinion. So this is confusing two different things. The fact that you interpret something does not make that merely your opinion. But secondly, the Bible is not any random, mere book.
It's a book of divine revelation. And one of the ways that we know that is by the not just a transport argument, but by the many, many, many prophetic future prediction statements that it has. So the messianic prophecies, of which there are many, not just a handful, those are things that attest to the inspiration of the text, and so that those are
objective things that have nothing to do with one's personal opinions. Another thing I will kind of like the another vase to kind of get get at it is that we have a normality will tortu which the church to pull it in ground of truth that establishes the correct way to understand the doctrine exposited by scripture. So that mechanism is in the Orthodox shure. That mechanism is fundamental in understanding what is the true doctione. Because Orthodoxy is not a religion there there is.
There's the book, and then you read the book, and then you get the doctrine. It's there's a doctrine, there's a dogma first, and the book is the exposition of that. So there's a completely different frame of understanding. There's a collective, communal understanding that goes back, you know, two thousand years of how to understand the text, which is another guard against it just being like a Protestant concept of you know, it's my interpretation versus
your interpretation. Yeah, um, this is a funny comment that I that I that I that I saw Frankie D five dollars super chat J. What movie is your famous quote? Pure chaos? From I don't know. That's the term that you can hear to a lot of them. I think you're talking about when I'm doing an impression of Jordan Peterson, and i'd say pure chaos. So it's Jordan Peterson, it's not movie Oh yeah, might be that. Um, maybe it's maybe he's referring to some other impersonation that's like
you're impersonal movie character. I don't know Peterson. Yeah, it's got to be. That's the only time I remember ever saying something like that. But what was the other question? The the well, the other question, Well, it wasn't a question, wasn't a super check musition. It was just Mark pointing out that there's a recent prop video about why people are becoming Orthodoxynus because a lot of prop pastors are j G h E. Why. So I guess you got to ask yourself, why why does that happen? How
does that? How does that even happen in the first place? Um, that's something that I think people can ask. But we're we're nearly we're nearly getting to three hours. I did not expect the streams to be to be this long, but I think definitely, like the whole men's stuff, and like some other cultural stuff. I think that definitely another stream. I mean, I enjoy talking to you about pretty much anything, and hopefully you have
the same view about meat. But I really appreciate you coming here. Anything you want to kind of say before be close to stream, anything you want to kind of shout out or let people know, I would just say that, you know, remember that all the work that we've done is not to have a mere intellectual discourse going on. It's to tell people that, you know, you actually have to get into the church and you find healing in the actual local church. So hopefully you can find a solid one around you,
not one that's liberalized. So I would just say, you know, look for ro corpor look for Serbian, look for Romanian, look for Antiochian parishes around you, and uh, you know, try to check out and see if they're solid. Because that's all in the final analysis, not about internet stuff. It's about to actually going to church. Yeah exactly. I mean the whole point of doing these streams and helping people it's to give them
reasons to become Ortodox, enjoy Orthodox church. It's that's the whole point of fit. I mean, if that if it doesn't result in that, then it doesn't what we've done hasn't really concluded in something that we want to conclude. And so one of the things that I've done, especially with you and even like these days with me, which I kind of I guess I didn't really expect. But I see a lot of people well that like point that talk about how the videos you do, the videos I do, the videos
redo together, and all of this kind of stuff like help us. Like recently I saw on Twitter someone who was Protestant when I saw him for the first time and then he's not Worthodox, basically saying that the stream we did, the debate review stream, we remember that fully equa one which I think
was like our debate review I think was a masterpiece on that topic. I think definitely anyone who's interested like advanced aspects of the relationship between the Holy Spirit and the relation between the Holy Spirit and the Sun and how they relate to the Father that that debate review stream we did, I think it's like the number one for sure, because it touches on so many important things related to
the debate. He said, for example, like oh yeah, that that video like really helped me understand the Orthodox position, like the stuff that that's what we're trying to accomplish, is that so help people give reasons, give them reasons to become Orthodox. And so if you go to an Orthodox churchs then yeah, what we've done is done, and we leave you to the hand of your spiritual father, to your priest, and yeah, you know
that it's their job, right, it's their job. We've done what we could have done, right, So I want to kind of close up with that as well. So thank you Jay, and thank you everyone, especially thank you to the super chatters. If you want to support Jay or I and I right then you can do so by looking at the description below. You can support me on Patreon. You can support Jay on what do you have? Rock on my website. You can subscribe it rock fan on my
website. Yeah, rock Fin definitely checked James rock Fin out because he has a lot of Rockfin exclusive videos there as well. And that's it. Yeah, thank you for watching this and I'll see all of you next time, maybe in the next video on the next streme goodbye and take care and let's see if it's my stream yard is kind of laggy right now.