All right, welcome to Jasonallis. Of course, we discussed a lot of these issues about a year or two ago with Nick Bryant. He's also published by my publisher. His book is The Franklin Scandal. My books are SSR, Hollywood one, two, and three. That is Trying Day and Nick joins us today to talk about the new Epstein files, all of the recent information coming out on a daily, minute by
minute basis. Everything gets crazy every minute. There's some new wild email that five years ago, ten years ago would have been a week long news story. Well, it's minute by minute now. So Nick joins us. He is one of the first to deal with this issue via the Gawker publication of The Black Book of jeff Sinon mceffrey or Jeffrey as we say over here, Nick, what's up and tell us about your background.
Good to see. How's my favorite stand up comic philosopher Eastern Orthodox Christion.
Well, I'm not technically doing a lot of stand up yet, but I am writing for comedee and so we're trying to maybe one day.
Just keep that in mind, and you're aspiring. I've been I've been on the Epstein beat since twenty eleven, and I acquired his Black Book in October of twenty eleven. And Epstein has under euphemistically, he has massages and under massages are a lot of the victims. And there's massage Florida, there's massage New Mexico. There's a massage LA there's a massage in New York. And I started calling those numbers.
And the first call was kind of strange because I was talking to the mother of an Epstein victim and she was in the room. The victim was, but the mother was doing the talking, and I just said, my name's Nick Brian, I'm a journalist and I'm looking into the Jeffrey Epstein trafficking network. And I was wondering, your daughter trafficked by Jeffrey Epstein, and she said, well, she'd been. He had sexually abused her since she was thirteen years old.
So that was my first call, and then my second call was with a woman who'd been flown to different states. And then my third call was with a woman who'd been flown to an island, and we really didn't know about the island at that point. We didn't know about Orgy Island. So once I had that nailed down. I felt when I went down there, there were accounts of Jeffrey Epstein molesting multiple underage girls, and there was a grand jury that said he hadn't molested a single underage girl.
And I saw that with the Franklin scandal, where there were actually two corrupt grand juries, and the Franklin network was a huge network. I think it was actually bigger than Epstein's. It wasn't as around as long as Epstein's, but I think it was probably bigger. And those two grand juries declared that not a single chief had been abused.
So I saw the compatibility between the two, and that's what I went down to Florida, and I eventually started calling Epstein's inner circle, and I just wanted to see what they would say. None of them pick up except for Sarah Kellen, who is the right hand woman of Gallinne Maxwell, the henchwoman of Gallainne Maxwell, who led hundreds of lambs to the slaughter and asked the evil woman. And I started to talk to her, and she said
how unfairly the media had treated her. She was commiserating about how unfairly she'd been treated by the media, and I did not share that attitude with her, and I think I might have expressed myself a little bit, and so the conversation got brought to a quick cessation. And then all these years later, these email else are coming
out and there's a center. Her name or his name is redacted, but it goes to all of Epstein's inner circle, and it said there's a journalist named Nick Bryant who is down here looking around and everybody has their quote unquote be aware of him. And then they had a picture of me in the email. And there were two more emails where Epstein was supposed to call me once
it alarm, JE called Nick Bryant. So apparently leaving all those messages for the inner circlet, uh got my they got my attention, or I got their attention.
That's crazy. I mean, you know, you've been on this case for a long time, and it's it's neat to see. I mean it's neat. Maybe it's ominous on it, but interesting, fascinating to see that they did have tabs on quite a few people. But you know, you you clearly played a central role and who needed to be watched and perhaps you know, who knows what do you think they
would have perhaps looked at legal action. Do you think they were wanted to smear you or do you know that they had any did they have any kind of reprisal?
I don't know what their intent was. I took a lot of harassment when I wrote the Franklin Scandal, including the death threat, So there were a number of things that were thrown at me, and I'm sure I'm rather ub to, so I'm sure that there were a number of other threats that I just didn't pick up on.
But anyway, there is one thing that was strange. Shortly after my visit to Florida, my mail was blatantly opened, I mean blatantly, and I had no idea because I was also at that point I was working on a book called Confessions of a DC Man in the Politics and Sexualizing Blackmail, and it was about a guy ran a gay escort service in DC and.
That's Henry Vn. I have that text.
Yeah, so Henry and I were going to start working on that book. So it could have been an aggregate of those things, or it just could have been Ebstein. I don't know.
Now this recent trunch that's come out here, I've covered it pretty consistently for the last twelve thirteen days, and it's been insane, a lot of different avenues to go down. First of all, let's talk about maybe some of the things that surprised you. There were definitely things that surprised me, stuff I didn't expect. I'm sure you've been following this case longer than I have, so you have maybe a
bigger bird's eye view of this. But what are some of the things that immediately stood out that shocked you or surprised you? And then I also want to talk about some of the more speculative, salacious types of things, the weird food terminology. You want to get your take on that. But what's the thing, What are some of the things that surprised you.
First, I've been at this for a long time. I started investigating Franklin in two thousand and two, two thousand and three, and those pimps, Lawrence King and Craig Spencer, I mean, they were evil guys, and I always wondered, I mean, if you're a human trafficker, a child trafficker, you're a vicious individual, and chances are you're a psychopath. So I never had any illusion about Epstein and Maxwell being psychopaths. But there was a couple that just kicked
me in the gut. I mean really kicked me in the gut. The UCLA neuroscientist who has an MD and abuse and he writes to Ebstein about how to enhance a baby's a baby's infants sucking ability. I after all, I've spoken at anti trafficking conferences, I've talked to scores of victims, and I'm aware of the most evil thing things done to children. But that one got me. That one got me.
Yeah, that was that was hard to you, hard to deal with him.
And I guess doctor Tramo is not getting his contract at UCLA, which is a very good thing.
Yeah, we've seen several prime ministers and un types sort of step down, even some CEOs supposedly stepping down. They'll probably just go into some other cushy position. But what about did you have a I know you probably did
from the Franklin information. But one thing that surprised me was, you know, I'd followed and read books on Epstein over the years and looked into it to a decent degree, but I was a little bit surprised at the international scope of a lot of the Epstein emails, in particularly regard to first or second day people had dug up plans where he had to meet. He was going to meet with like fifteen different world leaders, heads of state. He's talking about the Greek deck crisis and profiting from that.
He's talking about the vat Can Bank to Larry Summers, how it works, inner workings of that. He's talking to Ariandre Rothschald about you know, the Ukraine and making money from that when when there's a you know, chaos desabilization there. He talks about Somalia and you know, plundering the resources. So stuff that's pretty international in scope. Was that surprising at all to you? Or did you already kind of figure it was already international.
I knew it was international. I didn't think that he had the connections to various prime ministers that he did. That that surprised me. That he could tap into just about any country's power brokers, that is one thing that surprised me. I knew that he was pandering these young girls to various people in Europe. I had no doubt about that. But yeah, just his international connections. I mean, Jeffrey Epstein was a very talented guy. He was good
at trafficking underage girls. He was good at laundry money, he was good at putting together arms deals. If I was Team Evil and I had a first round draft pick, I would pick Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, Jeffrey. If your Team Evil, Jeffrey Ebstey might be the overall first round pick.
You're a long time yeah, yeah, you're a sort of an expert on this. I want to get your take my assessment. I want you to tell me how correct that was in this. My assessment was, he seems to be kind of like a PhD in organized crime. He's really good at networking, synthesizing, and putting together different things at you know, multiple different disciplines or criminal operations. I guess you could say, is he like a criminal operations expert?
He is, But he also had that get out of jail free card too, and a lot of criminal masterminds don't have that get out of jail free card. So that's what differentiated Jeffrey Epstein from a number of high class criminals that we know about. And Jeffrey didn't have to worry about law enforcement.
Would you say that that untouchable status again probably has to do with working at intelligence or above intelligence levels via Trilateral Commission that kind of stuff.
Yes, well, he was definitely plug into the Trailae permission and other organizations. But I believe and I've always people say he's working for Israelian intelligence, and I always have maintained and actually.
The Internet you're cutting out there for a second. Internet was sometimes this happens. I don't think it's a conspiracy. But Nick, hold on a second, you cut out just for a second. It's just Internet. It's not conspiracy or anything like that. Go ahead. And so you've always maintained what.
Well I've always made attained that Jeffrey Epstein was. People have said that he was working for the Massad, and I disagree with that. I mean, he very well might have been working with the Massad, but I just don't see the dark side of the CIA getting letting the dark side of the massade compromise American politicians on Americans. So without getting a cut of that intelligence, I think that that two have worked together.
I was going to say, is it possible that it was a sort of a he worked for different intelligence operations. That's kind of what I thought.
I have a tendency to think that it was primarily Israeli an American. He very well might have worked for other intelligence agencies. You've got a guy like Robert Maxwell who's working for a number of different intelligence agencies. But I think Epstein was primarily getting his protection, and a guy like that needs protection from the Israelis and then the Americans. And when that sweetheart deal was made, and
this is something I didn't know. There was a grand jury that was impaneled in two thousand and seven, and I thought that it had been adjourned very quickly, or I didn't even know if it had been paneled. And now we know that there was a grand jury impaneled and that there was an investigation, and that there was a sixty count indictment that was ready to be slapped down on Epstein, and count fifty one was child trafficking, which is a heavy sentence in the federal system. It's
fifteen a life. So with Epstein, the Feds, the Southern District of Florida, Alexander A. Coosta, they were ready to prosecute him, and they would have put him away forever. And I'll tell you where the power comes from. In that situation, he was given a sweetheart deal. He had to do thirteen months in a county jail, and all his co conspiras were given immunity. Now, Alexander Acrosta as a US there's only two people in the government that can tell a US attorney to stand down. One is
the Attorney General and one is the president. There's no way that Alexander A Consta as a US attorney is going to unilaterally cover up a pedophile network. And they had a list, They had a list of thirty six victims, but they knew of forty underage victims. Alexander A Consta is going to do that. And Alberto Gonzalez was the
Attorney General at that point. And there's no way Alberto Gonzdallas is going to go out and a lemon cover up a nationwide pedophon network without his boss telling him too. And his boss was George Bush too, the cognitively challenged George Bush. And so that emanated from the highest apex of the American political structure, the president. And I don't see Bush two making sure that Epstein has that lenient deal if he's not working with the CIA. I mean, that's my take on it.
Yeah, also too, I saw several I think we all know about Prince Andrew and all that. Do you think
there's potentially British intelligence connection. I'm thinking there were those interesting pictures of Epstein having photographs of old news stories from London Telegraph and other publications, the Independent that Princess Diana had gotten divorced, and so there was this article alleging that they had met, and some people were speculating that maybe that he was wanting to have a liaison or wanting to get with Princess die That was more speculation.
But we have the Prince Andrew. You know, those circles are really well established. Do you think there's also British intelligence angle to this? With five Eyes and sharing and intelligence in the West.
It's entirely possible. From what I have gleaned. The three countries that do the most blackmailing and I don't know if I'm giving them in the right order, but it's the United States, It's UK, and it's Israel. Now I don't think Russia is far behind them, but that's what I've been told. And again I'm sure that wherever Epstein went he was compromising people. I've got no doubts about that.
So and he spent a lot of time in the UK, and actually I think he was more open in the UK about what he was up to than he was in the US. He actually there was an amazing article written about Epstein and Maxwell and the Pedophile formerly known as Prince Andrew and the Evening Standard. I think it
was two thousand and one. It was Nigel Rosser, who's a pretty accomplished British journalist, and he talked about Epstein, saying that Epstein said that he was with the CIA on various occasions, but then at this point he was kind of walking that back. And there were some other
interesting things in that article too. It said Roger Rosser vote that Bill Gates and Jeffrey Epstein were doing business in the nineteen nineties, said that Epstein was doing business with Gates and Waxner and Trump in the nineteen nineties. And we know that the mainstream media has maintained that Gates met Epstein in twenty eleven, but according to this article, they had met much earlier. And just about everything that the mainstream media has manufactured about the Epstein case has
been pretty disingenuous. So I would have a tendency to believe the Evening Standard article over the mainstream media in our country.
Yeah, you know, I think there's interesting parallels with Jimmy Savile.
That's another case ELM guest House. You know that bears parallels to what you've covered with Franklin and Craig Spence and people like that, with the blackmail angle, and a lot of people forget the weapons arms trafficking stuff, which Whitney Webb talks about that early on in her book in regard to addenan koshogi who seems to have had kind of this international, high level ability to deal with anybody under perhaps the purview of American and Israeli intelligence.
I think Kashowgi was Saudi, right, So, and then they had his yacht fitted out to also record people, according to Whitney Webb in the first couple of chapters of her books, So we see these patterns of of the places fitted to you know, capture blackmail. Is it true that the Epstein estates I saw people alleging this? Do you think it's true that they had cameras pretty much set up everywhere? Did you were able to confirm that so that we were pretty sure that it was blackmail?
Absolutely? All his homes were wired for audiovision blackmail?
Was it? I saw an email saying or a report saying that Ehod Barack was the one that had come to help set that up.
Well, actually it came out recently. I mean, I think just within the last couple of days. Epstein owned an apartment building on sixty sixth Street where he kept girls and young women and a who Barack, who is also one of the pedophiles, and actually a very unsavory pedophile at that who ever seen put deals. He would stay in that apartment building quite often. And the Israelis wired
that apartment building for audio visual blackmail. I think that they probably under the auspices that who Barack was a former prime minister and former defense minister, so that was part of his security, and that might have well been the case too. But was definitely a blackmailer, I've got no doubt about it. But the thing about what we saw in the Franklin scandal, there were two primary pimps, Lawrence King and Chray Spans, and Spance started to get a lot of media on him and he ultimately ended
up killing himself. People on the internet say he was suicided. I believe that he killed himself but I also believe that he was given a choice. It was one of those Vito Corleone moments where either you can kill yourself or we will kill you. And he checked into the Ritz Carlton and Boston and a tuxedo and took an overdose of no triplane. And it's kind of interesting. He had a article on his chest talking about CIA intelligence people being called to testify before government entities, and he'd
been subpoenaed to testify at a grand jury. So he was getting way too much media. And I don't think Spence like Empstein. He was too used to living the high life and he could not have withstood being in prison. He just couldn't. Now King, on the other hand, he was given the same rap that was given to Spence. I'm pretty sure you got to keep your mouth shut. And King was more I think willing to keep his mouth shut, and I think that their handlers could see that.
So he did twelve years in pub fed's or I mean, he was in the cushiest prisons that we have in the federal system. And he got out after about twelve years, and he had a no show job waiting for him at a BMW dealership in Alexander, Virginia. He was taking care of it, and I think the same thing kind of went with Maxwell. Maxwell saw what happened to Epstein, and she agreed to keep her mouth shut. And I don't know if Ebstein could have I mean, he was too used to the high life. I don't think that
he would have done well being incarcerated. And people say, well, he was in megalomaniac and he never would have killed himself. If you look at that last picture of him when he was arrested and compared to prior pictures, he looked like a totally defeated man, and it's entirely possible that someone helped him kill himself. I don't discount that, but I think that he probably killed himself.
Yeah. I want to ask you too about the more speculative, sort of scandalous sensational emails and topic the beef, jerky, the tuna, the seafood. Do you believe that this is code? Could it be code for organ trafficking? Could it be code for cannibalism? Is that too far? What is your thought on this recent furor that everybody has.
Well, remember we had pizzagate some years ago, and I didn't know what to make a pizza gate. I looked into it, and actually I did spend some time on it, and I got to the guy who could get me to the guy that could start corroborating Pizzagate for me, and all of a sudden, that interview just kind of evaporated, and I'd put so much time into it that I just moved on. And we both have philosophic training, and I tried to approach everything agnostically like Socrates taught us.
And I went into Pizzagate agnostic, and I went out agnostic. But you've got these emails about muffins and steaks and pizza absolutely codes. But the thing about Epstein is he didn't do drugs. I don't even think he drank, or he drank very little. And he was very circumspect about the food that he ate. He had a chef that wherever he went, his chef went and prepared the food that he wanted. So there's an email from Harry Fish. He's a medical doctor, he's a urologist. He's like a
urologist of the stars. He's in New York City and he said to Epstein, I can't wait till the next time we go out for pizza and grape soda, and I found Harry's number. I've been doing investigati journalism for a long time, so I'm very good at getting people's numbers. And I called him up and I said, Harry, my name is Nick Brian. I'm a journalist, and i'd like to know what's your favorite pizza and what brand of grape soda would you suggest? And, much to my sugarin,
he didn't get back to me. But then I texted him, and actually I put the text on Twitter and I said, Harry, my name is Nick Brian. I left a voicemail for you, just for my own personal atification. Could you tell me what type of pizza you like and what brand of grape soda you would suggest? And he never got back to me. I mean, I think that that's kind of rude. Don't you think that's rude?
Jay, I'm not surprised. I wouldn't have expected him to get back either, But I'm not really engaged in a lot of investigative journalism. I just kind of stick to books, so I don't know what to expect, but I wonder, you know, just side a little side question, when when you engage in those kinds of you know, calls or requests. Do you mostly get ghosted and silenced? Or do you do they act sometimes reply or what's the tendency?
Sometimes people will pick up and I'll tell them who I am, and then they bring the conversation to a quick close. But I'm amazed at how easy it is. I can get just about anybody's phone number on their cell phone. It's when you've been doing it as long as I have. The databases are pretty sophisticated, and you can get sophisticated too, so it's pretty easy for me to call people. I called Lawrence King, one of the pimps in the Franklin scandal, and said, Larry, how you
doing this? Is Nick Bryant? And he said he wasn't him? So that was kind of the end of the conversation.
Have you, I mean, have you ever called anyone who actually gave you like a good conversation and admitted things or is it always just kind of hanging up.
Some people have given me really good information, but it's rare. It's rare, and it's generally not perpetrators. It's people on the other side, right right, the victims, like I had pretty good success calling the victims in Jeffrey Epstein's Black Book, and I didn't call a lot of them. I mean I called a number of numbers that were disconnected, but then the ones that I talked to, most of them were fairly open to talking to me. And that was also the same with the Franklin Scan. I found twelve
victims of the Franklin Scan. I had a list of sixty of them from a skill grandy documentary.
Well, let's get an assessment of that overall from the victims that you called and had conversations with. What's your description of what's the TLDR that the the too long didn't read assessment summary of how victims portray this operation.
Their view of this operation is very myopic. They just know about the sexual component, and I don't think that they even realized how hooked up Jeffrey Epstein was the victims. Most of the victims were kept in the dark, and we're just used as his and his friend's sexual toys. So I now, Virginia, do You Free? Is a different story.
I got to know her pretty well, and Epstein flew her around and around and around, and she was with Epstein for a couple of years and she was molested by a lot of powerful guys, and from her I got some really good information. But the other victims that I've talked to primarily we're in the dark about how expansive Jeffrey Epstein's reach was.
Well, I'm thinking in terms of, you know the code words, what is your theory on what the code words are? So were you arguing that because he wanted a personal chef and he was very attentive to like what he ate, that he wouldn't be eating pizza and grape soda because that's junk food, or were you saying that he was attentive to what he was eating so there would not be any cannibalism.
It was obviously a code. So here's an email from Susan Hamblin and she runs an aren An adoption charity, and she says to Jeffrey Epstein that she's sending quote unquote fresh muffins to the quote unquote island and asking Jeffrey Epstein if you'd like additional steaks. And because this woman is running in an adoption charity and she's hooked up with Jeffrey Epstein, there's no way that she is sending muffins and steaks to the Virgin Islands. I mean
that's obviously exactly for children. I believe children because of her status.
Is so the eating could be an analogy for the sexual activity.
Uh?
Is there perhaps organ trafficking? Do you do you believe that some bodies needed to be disposed with the sulfuric acid? Is that a viable component of it as well?
That's entirely possible. I mean there was a lot of sulphuric acid that was and there were and the emails have come out do talk about tunnels underneath the island?
Yes, I saw that, Yeah, so.
Who knows what was in those tunnels. I have talked to some victims and they have said, there's just so many girls that Epstein went through, and they wonder how
many are still alive? Yeah, yeah, and there were. With the FSC Victims Compensation program, there were two hundred and twenty five women that applied for compensation, and compensation was awarded to one hundred and fifty, but eight of them twelve of them declined to go through the victims Compensation fund because if you got money from that compensation fund or a conversation program you signed a release and you
could not go after any of your other perpetrators. It was a superlative The Fstein victims compensation program was a superlative cover up tool.
Oh interesting, Yeah, I guess that's why a lot of people set a lot of court right, that's a good way to kind of just get it out of the media, get it out of people's attention.
And signed the release.
Yeah, exactly now.
And then one of the attorneys, his name was Stam Poinger. He's dead now. He was a CIA asset and actually he worked with Jeffrey Epstein in the early eighties. I think that they were both putting together arms deals. PingER was part of the October Surprise arms deal where the
Reagan camp told the Iranians. The Iranians took hostages in the Reagan camp told the Iranians that if they held onto the hostage till after Rangan became president, they would sell them a surf feat of weapons at a reasonable price. And Poner was one of the first people that laid
down the foundation of that deal. And then he is in business with Epstein, and Epstein is with at that point working with John Lees, who is a British arms dealer, and they're sending arms from China communists China to Iran because Iran was fighting the Iraqis, who we were also providing Iraqis the weapons too. But the Stamp Pottinger, for him to represent these Epstein victims was an abomination. I mean, according to one of the Epstein victims, she was sodomized
by Stampoinger. And there's other There's another victim named Sarah Ransom who has just been through hell. Man just been through hell. I mean, she was molessed repeatedly by her stepfather, and then Epstein got his hooks into her and just treated her like a slave, like an animal. I mean, he was swell and Epstein were just vicious to this poor woman. And at a certain point in twenty eighteen, she tried to kill herself. She jumped out a window
and she survived. And Stamp she's on heavy duty pay medication and Psyche had medication, and Stamp Pottinger is sending her emails pushing her to make a settle with the Ebstein Victims Conversation program. Just really really cold blooded type stuff.
It looked to me another question that I had for somebody who's been in this for a while. Seems like some of the emails suggested that at times he took orders from some people or was told to do things in certain cases. We have, for example, the email about assassination. I saw people trying to demunk that and say, well, maybe they're just talking about, you know, something in a sexual way that's using the code of you know, killing or something. I don't know what that was supposed to mean.
But do you think that there were instances where he was being told what to do by certain people in the case of like there was that one email you have our spy, you know, and then another one about torturing. Do you think that was sexual codes or do you think that was actual espionage codes or words that.
I don't know, but you can tell in his interactions with less Wexner that he is giving less Wexner a degree of deference that borders on fear. I think Wess Wexner was probably the only person that really had a lot of control over reps as an individuals, not as an entity.
Okay, yeah, because that's that's the thing that a lot of people are asking, like, well, who who would be kind of above him? And presumably it would be people with more money than that he had, and uh, you know, and again there's always been the speculation about what does it mean that he was a money manager? I mean, presumably he was managing Wexner's money, right.
It's so humorous less Wexner. Well, Epstein and Wexner had this strange relationship. I mean, they were lovers, but then they were also pedophiles together. And and Wexner gave Epstein power of attorney for his vast fortune in nineteen ninety one. And this is another case of the mainstream media being disingenuous. And this is Vanity Fair, which is relatively sophisticated magazine that will never ever let me write an article for them.
But the reason okay, and I mean I'm not being facetious about this at all, The reason why Les Wexner gave Jeffrey Epstein power of attorney over his vast fortune in nineteen ninety one was because he was lonely. I means, yeah, Vanity Fair says that.
And you're you're also then of the opinion of the view that Epstein is bisexual as well, which is relevant to this proclivities issue, because I don't think a lot of people notice that or thought about that until this recent dump. When did you queue into that.
I knew about Epstein and Wexner, I mean like a bisexual relations and ship many many years ago, probably I don't know, five years ago.
Do you think the majority of the trafficking being as far as I could tell them, almost mostly women, was that just to serve the proclivities of other wealthy, powerful people. Do we have evidence of young boys in any of this?
There is some evidence of boys, and I think that that was Wexner's That's what Wexner preferred, was young boys. I mean, he'd my last young girls. He's an evil, malignant man. But yeah, I mean there are accounts of boys, but they're rare. I think that there was a pedophile network out of Chicago that was for writing wexnert with little boys. That's that's what I've been told. Have a tendency to believe that. But yeah, I think Wexner that was his preferences is little boys.
Now, we've also seen a lot of people talking about Peter Nigard, Jean lu Burnell, the modeling fashion world. Of course, Wexner connects to that with owning a bunch of the brands that we all know from the two thousands. What exactly is the connection to the fashion world. Is it just looking and scouting out for beautiful women or models or is that a cover MC two and it is that are being a cover for a way to sort of spot underage trafficked people. Is that most likely? What that is?
Oh? Big time yes. And they had a mechanism. According to Virginia's You're Free, they had a mechanism, and I think I know the person that was part of the mechanism. They had a mechanism. They would go to or Burnell would go to Eastern Europe and he would buy girls. I mean he wouldn't rent girls, he would buy girls. And then they had a mechanism that would give them
visas to allow them into the United States. And absolutely there's another aspect of the fashion industry that I've been I've really looked into, and now we're just maybe seen starting to see some glimpses of it. I knew someone that was very high in the occult in New York City, and because when I was digging around there was there was a very significant occult part of Franklin.
Yes, I was going to ask about that next with that same we go ahead.
And I was wondering if there was an occult facet of Epstein, and because there were so many similarities between the two networks, and this individual told me that the occult is rife in the modeling industry. And there's that temple on Epstein's island that has I suppose someone people have postulated that it's a image of malac or a sculpture of malac above the door.
It's like an owl or something.
Yeah, yeah, that and Moloch was a guy that you sacrificed children two. But I, as far as like my begging around, I could not find the occult component of Ebstein, although the emails are starting to allude to various occult aspects of Ebstein.
So that's one one that popped up a couple of days ago, and I had the exact same interest. That's where I was going to go next, was is there a you know, an esoteric occult angle to what he's up to. There was apparently what's supposed to be a reading list and books that had recently purchased, and there was some tantric sex magic text, some other sort of weird gnostic type tax that were there, so that if that was real, that would suggest a degree of interest
in sex magic. I think he would definitely be drawn to that. But in the Bandon interview, I thought it was interesting with livestream and commented on the whole thing. He seems to hint that elements of cobbalistic ideas, but nothing explicit. He says he does find alchemy fascinating. That's not a huge deal, but you know, it's just sort of touching on the edges of it. Did you see his Amazon book list and the stuff that he was purchasing.
Yes, actually I was ware of the Amazon book list a long time ago, and okay, and that kind of indicated Yeah, definitely the occult you I saw that you had tweeted about this. I think she was a victim that where she said that she when she when she was in a lot of pains, she thought of Jesus and it helped her.
Oh, the one where they were talking about being in the bed and then they told the little girl, yeah, Jesus won't help you. And then somebody said you should dress up as Jesus next time.
Yes, and that you would call that satanic, And I mean that's very, very very dark.
Yeah, I mean just but to put together the specifics, I mean, actual proof. It's still a little iffy. But I'm curious though about Zora Ranch, because what do you think that was a sort of a John of God style operation. I'm sure you've heard of that. Yeah, yeah, sort of baby farming, brooding brood operation that got shut down. He was closely associated with Oprah, who promoted him quite a bit. I saw a lot of parallels between what perhaps Epstein was trying to do with Zora Ranch. What's
the skinny on Zoro Ranch? Is it also a sort of a mad scientist lab where he wants to experiment with genetics and in some form of transhumanism. Is that what that is?
Yes? Now, there was a Epstein victim who is a very street woman, which she's very damaged, and she said that she went unconscious and then came to and what she thought was a laboratory underneath or a ranch, and there was a woman doctor harvesting her obums. But she's also said some other things that are kind of out there, so it's difficult to know. But if you look at the emails, Epstein is heavily involved in eugenics and cloning
and cloning, isn't that difficult. When Dolly the sheep was cloned, it's to clone someone or something, a living being. All you got to do is get an ovum, take the DNA out of the oven, which is relatively easy, insert the DNA that you want into the ovum, and then given an electrical charge, and then sometimes it starts the mitosis process and the cell stairs, and sometimes it doesn't.
But it's relatively easy to clone. There are people in New York City that are cloning their French bulldogs and I kind of look at French I mean, I don't have anything to get the French. I don't have anything as bulldogs, but I kind of look at French bulldogs kind of little creatures. I don't know why someone that's been sixty five thousand dollars, but anyway, that's my own prejudice, but I think you can go on a human for about one point five million dollars. And I firmly believe
that Jeffrey Epstein was cloning himself. One of the reasons why Virginia ji Free got out, well, there were a couple of reasons that E'mstein and Maxwell wanted to impregnate her. And but before that, she was sent to Thailand to pick up and bring her back to the US. And when I mean young, I'm talking about a minor, very
young miner. And she met her who would become her boyfriend, who was on vacation in Thailand, and then they got married like a week later, and then she moved to back to Australia where he lived and she just got out. But and then there's these other accounts too, and then the Brian Bishop emails of cloning. You could tell that here's a guy that was really in the clone and Epstein and the emails is saying he's going to subsidize Bishop. So I believe that was definitely part of the transhumanism,
definitely part of the gold. There's that one email where, ah, you can't think of his name. He's a pretty renowned researcher, and he's talking about giving baby male babies hormone blockers and giving babies cover that one now, yeah, and basically creating hermaphrodites, right, and he thought that that would just be the greatest thing in the world, that he'd create these very sexy her I guess that there are a subgenus of humans that like hermaphrodites. I don't know, I've never really.
Now in regard to the sort of mad science domain of this, we saw also some odd emails of a guy. His name was like you y you you go or something else, and that one seemed to speak of him sort of spotting a girl that could be a potential subject that Jeffrey could use because she had undergone ritual abuse, sexual abuse, or trauma. Perhaps Jeffrey could look into this and use her because she was at stage three of the process. What did you mean?
I really, I mean that reach of mind control to me, And I've got an mk A document. I think it's Subproject one where it's talked about using electroshock drugs hypnosis to induce small old personality and ultimately and ultimately side. And I believe that our government, I mean remote viewing, which was above ground for twenty years or so, is just about psychic abilities. I mean it's called remote viewing
to give it some kind of tangible right explanation. But I believe that remote viewing is alive and well it just went underground.
And probably that email is referring to sending her to Jeffrey because and this is something I noticed to it. I'm not seeing you didn't cover this. I haven't seen a lot of other people mentioning. We had a few royals and elites offering up their children. There was one of the daughters of Sophia, I want to say, of den Mark or Bulgaria for you where it was. But they were basically saying, hey, jeff here's a here's our daughter. What do you think of her? Could you use her? Right?
And then the princess of the Prince of Norway was talking about her son. There's too there's two different ones. She's talking about her son saying, hey, jeff could you give me parenting advice on my son? You know so? And then she wanted perhaps to have a baby with Jeffrey. So they it's almost like the the global elites looked to him as a king maker kind of person, even for your for your offspring perhaps or even having offspring with him. Is that correct?
That's what I mean. You can certainly extrapolate that. That's what those emails allude to. For sure. It's it's such a different way of thinking. That's strata. Now it's being called the Epstein class you ever Readthorsting Bedlin's The Leisure Class.
I'm not.
It's a it's a classic. And Epstein called the book is called the Leisure Class, and he comments on how the leisure class or how the aristocrats are just much more predatory. And he looks at all different types of cultures and he shows that people that that are affluent are much more predatory than people in the society that that not and I and we're seeing that with these with these Epstein emails, that there is a strata of
our society that is very predatory. And really I think could care less about what we as mere mortals think. They believe that they're living a mon.
Olympus, right right, yeah, I mean quickly. Even at the end of his trait and Hoe talks about it. He talks about that difference between the norms and you know that's so called elite class, and that you know that
that's why they send their children to boarding school. They have you know, nannies because they don't want the child to have the attention and you know, nourishment that a mom gives, and because it tends to kind of create a more of a psychopathic tendency, which they think, oh, well, that's what you need to be a leader, is to be a total psychopath. So that that's interesting to see that kind of be confirmed in the emails and more emails that stood out to you as surprising or making
connections that you didn't expect. Oh, this one. Want to get your take on this, because I found this very fascinating because I've read quite a bit on the abuse subjects within the Roman Catholic world. And we saw one email of a person referring back to a time when Jeffrey Epstein lived at the Vatican for some unspecified time. In that email, it's discussed that they had conversation with
John Paul about architecture and columns. Many people were saying, well, we can't really prove that he was talking there a little in there. However, we do know that he was there in a picture with just laying being blessed by John Paul the Second. We know John Paul the Second also gave a high level papal knighthood award to procure
criminal Jimmy Savile. And then we have another email where it's alleged I think Epstein says that John Paul the Second gave him some piece of architectural something that he put on ceiling. He seems to know the inner workings of the Vatican Bank pretty well. So what did you make? And then he's also organizing flights for Pope Francis it seems, so what do you make of the Vatican angle? Is this all much to do about nothing? Is there actually something there? What's your take on that?
Well, if you're gonna launder money, the Vatican Bank is the go to bank.
That's exactly what he says.
Yeah, because there's no oversight with the Vatican Bank. The Vatican is its own country. There was that scandal with Bishop Marcinkus, whoever saw the.
Vatican you exactly?
Yeah, and P two Lodge, And I think that why would these people stop using the Vatican Bank? I mean, I mean Marcinkus retired and he I believe he ended up in Arizona. But nothing ever happened to him. I mean, the whole thing was quashed. Not too many, not a lot of people know about except for you guys like you and me that read books about Gladio and things
like that. So I don't have a problem believing that Jeffrey Amstein, and given his connection to all these banks that the Vatican make is probably still being used to launder money or whatever. I mean, who knows.
Do you think that Do you think that him knowing and having a degree of relationship or closeness with John Paul the second is that legitimate? Do you think he was just kind of ragging about himself, puffing up something that wasn't there? What's your your sense on that one.
I don't know about that, but I do believe that these emails might bore this out, that he had some kind of relationship with the Vatican Bank. That makes the most sense to me. I mean, I believe that he was an atheist. He was Jewish culturally, but I'm sure that he looked at Catholicism as a fairy tale. Sure the Vatican Bank is very very real.
Well, yeah, absolutely, Now, speaking of that atheism angle, did you find did you see the Bannon interview? Did you find any of those comments interesting? When he's talking about reality being something that we project from our mind and it's all code and mathematics, and you got these other emails where he's talking about dimensions, Well, what did you make of those sort of speculative topics in the emails? And the band in interview.
It's very strange. I mean, in some of those emails he's talking about metaphysics. I don't, you know, it's hard to say because usually people that are atheists don't really believe in extrasensory perception and things like that. Right, So it's really difficult to know what Epstein believed, other than.
When Bannon asked him about the soul, right, and they have that weird exchange about the soul, and he says something like, well, look that we don't have we can't quantify the soul, but there's all these things in physics that you can't quantify, like quarks, and the soul is kind of like a quark or so it's a really it's almost like he was taking a lot of the new physics and that kind of stuff and just sort of positing that maybe religion and all that is just
what that field of physics is describing is the way I understood it.
That of physics. It's it's difficult to know what Ebstein believe. There's some talk of metaphysics. There is some talk of extra sense or giftedness with that the woman that the girl or woman that's in stage three but most hardcore atheists that I know have a real hard time embracing even psychic ability, right, because that would entail some kind
of metaphysical interconnectedness, Right. I would really like to find out whether or not he was really down with the occult that would That's been something I've been looking into for a long time, and hopefully we can get some more answers from these emails.
What about the You know, we've covered a lot of different angles here. I don't know what your time of frame here is for for discussion, but what about Okay, international finance. This is another topic that I think is overlooked because you know, it's kind of mysterious, and we mentioned the Vatican Bank and and that kind of stuff. But one thing that struck me as odd was Number one. It seems like he's explaining to Larry Summers. You would you would think is a sort of a Harvard bankster
Clinton era guy. He would know about international banking and perhaps the Vatican Bank. He seems to be explaining how that works to Larry Summers when he mentions at the beginning of the band An interview, he says that, yeah, fractional reserve banking and abandon seems to be kind of again mystified as to what exactly they're discussing. Why does this matter? Why did that get you recruited into, you know,
the circles of Kissinger and Rockefeller. You know that. So you know, a lot of people speculated too that another reason that there might have been an attempt to sort of cover up and suppress this latest trunks coming out would be due to actually money laundering and money scandals that could perhaps bring down the Western economy. Who knows exactly whether that's the case or what that means, but it looks like there's a shadow banking sort of thing
going on here. And we noticed between him and Orienta de Rothschild, the various emails that they have discussing these topics that it's almost like they see conflicts and all these situations as a totally different way of gaming the market, shorting the market based on advanced intelligence. I thought that was funny because when I went back and looked at the Morton authorized barca of the Rothschild's, they brag about the fact that, you know, two hundred years ago at Waterloo,
they had advanced intelligence. And so here's the Jeffery epste two undred years ish later basically doing the same thing. Yeah, we have upupdated intelligence. We short the market. All the normies and the guiyam they you know, they go on the basis of what the real world says. We have the inside information. I thought that was really insightful as the way the way that the predatory class actually operate well.
Fractional reserve banking is kind of a scam. I think we both would probably agree on that. With Epstein. Where you really get insight into Epstein is the emails. There was a Middle East hacking group that got three years worth of emails between Epstein and Hue Barock, and those emails are really talent because it's Epstein and a Hubbarock putting together arms deals first from Mongolia and then they sold like a Big Brother surveillance system to a couple
of African dictators. And Epstein they're talking about these troubled areas in the world and Epstein tells who Barack, Well, this is where we can make some money. We could sell them arms, which is and Epstein had been in the arms business going way back after he left Baris Stearns. He got into the arms business so I think that that was just one of the many fingers that he had in the big pie.
Do you think that would have been a major reason to try to shut it down? I mean, obviously people don't want to have their private proclivities exposed and that kind of blackmail type stuff. But is there was there a real danger that the international market scam complex would be taken down? Or was that an excuse to try to cover up and to not have the files released.
I think that there are multiple reasons why we're having difficulties getting the other three million files, and international banking could be one of them. I think Epstein's various connections with intelligence agencies could be one of them. I think that some of the people that would be named could be one of them. But the Trump administration has not lived up to the letter of the law of the Epstein Transparency Act. We should have gotten all those emails
and those names. All those names shouldn't be redacted. So the Trump administration is want this tooth and nail. But I will say this, I'm kind of amazed about the information that's come out with this latest trench. But the thing is people are just going down wormholes with it. We have to take this information and we can change our government because of this information. And I think that that is one thing that I think Americans. I think
there's two things that make Americans kind of despondent. I think that they've been divided and conquered with the right left paradigm. The left thanks the rights men leel the right things, the left men le ill, and it's just a very easy to bide and conquer. And then I think Americans have been conditioned to think that they really can't affect change. And when you superimpose those two trends, you end up with what we have now, which is
not helping Americans. And a lot of Americans are in a lot of trouble financially, just trying to support themselves. Kids today that get out of college, they're heavily in debt. They're never going to be able to buy a house, right. And the rich keep getting richer before to keep getting poorer. And that's really been escalating since the plague. And we as Americans, and the reason why is because our government's a sewer and we have a chance now to clean
out the sewer. We really do. We know that a lot of our politicians are compromised. We know that Jeffrey Epstein at all compromise and number them. And there's three things that our politicians have. They've got arrogance, which makes people stupid. They've got lust, which makes people stupid. And they've got greed, which makes people stupid. And when you're speaking of alchemy, if you combine those three you get very very smart people being very very stupid. Bill Clinton
comes to mind immediately. So what we need and the only way that we're going to be able to get to the bottom of this is Epstein Justice, this organization that I'm part of. What we need is an independent congressional commission. And an independent congressional commission is very different than other congressional investigations because it does not require a signature from the president. It just requires a majority in
the House and a majority in the Senate. And with independent congressional commissions, oftentimes non government personnel are incorporated, or the entire investigation it's farmed out to non government personnel. And that's what we're going to need because if the well, I mean now the Trump administration, which is being really disingenmous saying that there's that Epstein had no co conspirators, which I mean, they must really think we're stupid. But
we need that independent Congressional commission. It's going to be our only shot to clean out and I think that this will be the best chance in our lifetimes to clean out our government. And it might be the best chance in our lifetime to clean out our government before it takes it off a cliff, before our leaders take us off a cliff, because I think that that's where we're heading.
You mentioned a while back, oh, people should look out at Franklin scandal. There. That's the book that the Nick has put out where you were going to do an Epstein book. I'm assuming that maybe I had to put a little pause on it given all this new information. Are you still doing an Epstein book.
I'm still working on an Epstein book. I've got probably forty thousand words. Yeah. I thought about writing Epstein book ten years ago. If I'd written an Epstein book ten years ago, you have to redo it, yeah, completely. But I'm I really want to write a definitive Epstein book. The books that have come out about Epstein have been extremely shallow, and if I'm going to be generous, I
would call them extremely shallow. But because I've been kind of at the ground floor of Epstein since since twenty eleven, and I've made a lot of connections in this world. I mean, I made them with Franklin, but I've also made them with Epstein too. I think that I could run a very good book on Jeffrey Epstein at this point, or Jeffrey Epstein at all at this point.
Awesome. Well, Nick, I really appreciate you coming on, And of course people can check out your links and your information. I'll have them in the show description below, and any other things you want to plug, like the Justice for Epstein Victim's website or anything like that. Future projects. What do you got coming up next?
The most important thing in my life right now is Epstein Justice. So I would suggest that your audience for the Epstein Justice dot com. It's very funny I talk about Epstein Justice, I talk about an independent Congressional Commissioner. We've given this a lot of thought, and we're organizing people by state to put pressure on their federal legislators.
And I'll give an email, I'll give an interview like the interview that I just gave you, and then comments in the conversations, they'll be how can we do anything about this after I've explained it? So I mean, and that is what I've talked about earlier, that the superimposing between the right and the left and American thinking they can condition to change, but we can. It's up to us. And I think that we need to affect change because
this is going to be our best opportunity. As I said, our leaders are going to take us off a cliff and before they do that, we have the ability right now to make some substantial changes. All right.
The book is Franklin Scandal by Nick Bryant, and of course he is a veteran when it comes to the Epstein subject matter. Nick, thank you so much for coming on and I look forward to future conversations.
Great to be Ruth, you Jay