If you've been told to pull up your socks, then make sure it's a pair of TNT socks. The TNT shop is now open at TNT Radio dot Live. Patrick Henningson and TNT All right, folks, welcome back, welcome back, We're now we're number two. Thank you for rejoining us. Thank you very much to international human rights lawyer Arnold Devilay in the previous segment, really kind of lifting the lid on this whole Nazi pedigree in Canada, and
it goes way back. There's a lot of detail. There will be packaging and featuring that interview later in the week at twenty first Century Wire, so look out for that. Hello to everybody in the TNT chat room. I hope you guys are doing great today. I'll be interacting with you momentarily, but before I get there, I want to welcome onto the stage our next guest. He is a best selling author. His name is Jay Dyer and
his website is Jay's Analysis. Also author of many books. Now we'll have an opportunity need to hear about those titles at the end of the segment, but he's on the line right now from the United States. Jay, how are you Joan mall Patrick. Thank you for having me. Bad glad to
be here with you. No great to have you, Jay, And I'm sure you're watching with great interest and maybe some amusement at this sort of the political folly that just continues to unfold, and looking at the election cycle that's coming in twenty twenty four, it seems Jay that it's very likely, looking at the media reporting the narratives, the Democrats are very much going to be run. If Trump is running, they're going to be running on January sixth,
and so we can't have him in an office anymore. He tried to overthrow the government January sixth, et cetera, et cetera. You know the script by now, But this is interesting how January sixth has been weaponized and so effectively, And it does draw some historical compare arrisons, and I want to talk to you about that. Plus just the level of co intel pro now through events like this, it's it's kind of reached a whole new level.
I thought this was a trend, a deep state trend that might kind of maybe you know, die on the vine because of all, you know, social media and everything's so transparent now. But it seems to have gone the other way. Jay, there seems to be more co intel pro more LARPing with federal informants and various shady actors playing these roles in public. So I want to talk to you about that as well. But on the January sixth front and just look putting this into historical context, what are your thoughts
on this? I think too. To me, it always was suspicious. It looked like something that would be just perfect for the kind of operation that apparently they did, which was a kind of trap that was set for, uh, you know, the patriot crowd. We know that for many many years one of the examples of co and tell that people have forgotten about his pat con, which is the the right wing fundamentalist arm of this strategy, where you really set up and weaponize these different groups, these different sects.
Some of these you could think of things like Timothy McVay and Ellerheim City which was run by Feds. You could think of situations like Christian identity movements. I think Elahim City was a version of that, and those are always really ripe for honey trap, you know, honey honeypot type situations. I don't know about honey traps. They are always really ripe for honey trap. Uh, you know, honey honeypot type situations. I don't know about honey traps.
Don't think it's any good look at women amongst them, but they're all pretty ghastly. But can we think back to again, you know Bo Bow Grits Grits or whatever his name was. He was one of the early pat con guys that was really you know, he wou put on this costume of
fifty medals that he had won in Vietnam or whatever. It was all very you know, cartoonish and larpie and it was always you know, I think in that situation that was sort of a QAnon before QAnon, right where you had this idea that there was the the white hats in the system that we're working secretly to to save everybody. And then you know, QAnon played a key role in the January sixth event, which you know, pretty obvious to
me and I'm sure to you and many others. It was clearly something that was intended to mislead and dupe people into thinking that you know, if they went into the Capitol, they could you know, do something set up some kind of new provisional government. You know, I mean, who knows what all nonsense to QAnon people were believing and we're being told. But they also had, as you know, you know, an army of basically provocateurs and
and agit prop agitation people in the crowd. Uh, that's all pretty much come out. I have not seen that footage, but I have a friend who works with Tucker who has actually seen the entire all of it, so he had to watch all of it when before Tucker did that special and it said, you know, it's pretty obvious when you see the totality of the footage that Tucker had that this was, you know, clearly a staged event
to a large degree. And when you have these mobs of people, you have you have a spectrum, you have you know, fads running around, you have kuks, you have clowns, you have agitators, you have people that are probably not that bright, and then they just sort of go along, they're coaxed into it, and it becomes, as you said, this giant spectacle, a new nine to eleven, which is completely ridiculous. But
I thought your parallel to Reichstag is relevant because in the Reichstag event. As I think you said on your show the other day, they really just burned a building and then blamed it on a you know, mentally retarded guy that they said was a communist, and it provided a great pretext for crisis and then emergency powers. And really that's the elite maschinations for all of these events, right, It's always crisis and then crisis management. You know, brazil
Ski even talked about this a long time ago. Kissinger talks about this, so you know, this is this is their basic game plan of what they do is in order to remove to move things to the next level of loss of liberties and loss of personal sovereignty and rights, you need a giant crisis. The crisis then furthers the end goal that you had from the outset, and certainly January sixth was was a big part of that. And so no, I'm not surprised that there. I mean, basically, this is Biden
has made this his entire platform. You know, remember when he stood there with that weird red and black fascist background, and I mean, this is really and this is all to combat fascism, right, to combat Trump's fascism. Yeah, that when he launched his campaign, I think it was April of twenty nineteen he released a video saying and it had this solemn music. I don't know if you remember seeing it, but and then he's I was I was ready to retire, and then I was called to bring the save
the soul of our country because Charlotte'sville happened. And that's another one, Jay, Charlotte's feel very suspect. I don't know if you observed any of that at all. I do recall it, and I remember watching a lot of videos and seeing and you know, they got what they needed there with the unfortunate death of Heather Higher that. You know, this gave the perfect pretexts that at that time that the dissident right movement could be shut down because it
was now shown to be violent. And as you pointed out, this is the older model of cointelpro If you go back to the Civil rights era, when you had left groups, leftist groups that were how legitimate critiques and concerns, perhaps anti war, perhaps you know, black panthers, you know these
kinds of groups. What the establishment did was that they would send in people who had the task of radicalizing and really, you don't need a whole lot it doesn't require you know, people going in and having to blow something up, although it might I think that that's probably what's going on with with the weather underground situation, but it could be something as innocuous as just getting people
to march with their guns on display, and so the abound format. Richard Ioki got the Black Panthers to do that, and that successfully, you know, basically emasculated them from having any power influence because people then saw the pictures of all they're a radical group and they're you know, marching on the street ready to kill everybody. Now that doesn't mean that I agree with any of
the necessary necessarily with any of these positions. It's just that these groups are very useful, as you you know, you know this from you know, we went and looked at investigated the Bundy event and we saw a very similar pattern there of agitators and weirdos and creeps running around and it's sort of acting foolish and trying to get people to do stupid things. And it's a very
basic strategy, but it's very real. And so that's what they did in the in the in the sixties of the contal the student movements, get them to act stupid and radical. Then then you can destroy their public image. And it's not any different for what the establishment does now with the right wing groups. And they did it, and then they did the same thing with
Islamic groups. You know, we think about the newburg Sting documentary where they created a fake mosque and you know, had brought in this looks like a CIA guy to run the whole thing and get everybody thinking they're going to blow up a military base, just really ridiculous plans. But oh and then the establishment comes to the rescue, which was the plan the entire time. So yeah, this is a repeated pattern. And once you see the pattern,
it's pretty obvious. And I think that it was probably going on at Charlottesville as well. Yeah, reichstat I think the name of the German communist was Marinus Vanderloube and apparently, yeah, mentally disabled. And you know what's interesting, you mentioned Charlottesville had just a fun fact here, not fun, horrific
fact. Actually James Field, who was tried and convicted for the murder of Heather Higher in Charlottesville, there was a lot of information that was not basically aired during the trial that only came out after it was kept from the Defense wasn't allowed to air it. And that was James Field. The driver of that car was on anti psychotropic medication, diagnosed schizophrenic. His mother was a schizophrenic from the age of six. Okay, I'm always in special sort of
class at whatever. So clearly a marginalized individual who was groomed through the sort of you know, American X type neo Nazi group. With the photograph on social media, it was all kind of very It all happened almost like in the storybook fashion. And then this happened at Charlotte. I just thought that's interesting. We're talking about Reichstadt, and there's obviously more more parallels there than one would care to to notice if you're only just taking a quick plance at
it. But that's kind of horrific really when you start looking at that depth of it. Yeah, it's very you know, there's no concern for the cost of human lives or you know, truth has nothing to do with any
of that. It's really just politically motivated, pure power politics. And I did a talk recently on forty plus publicly admitted false flag events, and you could say, you could you could argue that these are really just a form of a kind of false flag where you're really just trying to get some juicy clip or some juicy event that portrays the group that you want to target as
the bad guys. But I mean there's been at least and I mean there's more than in this list, but these are just the publicly admitted ones. And so this goes all the way back, you know, at least one hundred years, where you can look to Japan engaging in a false flag to start wars with China. You can go all the way up through you know, the British. British were very adept at using false flag events, and
so it's an old strategy. You can just apply the maybe the bigger geopolitical use of it, you can just apply it on a smaller scale to these kinds of events where you know, we think back to that I think it's the two thousand and eight G eight protests and there were cops, you know, disguised as protesters and then the cops go and they bust out windows and they end up you know, shutting down the protests or the basis on the basis of what the cops did, or you know, the twenty fourteen my
don You've got people sniping people and then that causes the big hullabaloo and then it's pinned on the opposition. So this is just a classic military and media strategies. You can even say it's a it's a media tactic. Yeah. So you have the false flags. Be interesting to see that list you gave, by the way, that would be quite instructive. So you have the pre war false flags used to trigger for war. That's one type of false
flag. But it seems like the really insidious ones are the domestic ones to shift power within a country or within Europe for instance. And what comes to mind there, Jay is Operation Gladio. What are your your thoughts on that topic. Yeah. I remember discussing Gladio with you, maybe many many years ago, and I was fairly new to the topic back in twenty fourteen.
I've been reading a lot more on Gladio of late. There's a really great book by Paul Williams that talks about the history of Gladio and organized crime and the Vatican and entities like the Jesuits and Opus Day and the Vatican Bank.
It's a great book. I would also have the the Daniel Ganser book that everybody's probably familiar with, which is kind of a pH d thesis level book on the history of it, and it's a it's good to tie this into you know, we were talking about these kind of clownish larpie role playing groups. Well, there was a recent the FBI informant who turns out he was the guy running the so called neo Nazi organization, the biggest one in America,
and his name was what is that guys? So the group was found by Cliff Harrington and Robert Brannon in the nineteen in nineteen seventy four, and it's an offshoot of George Lincoln Rockwell's original American Nazi Party of NAT. By the way, I've read that Rockwell was also I think this is a FED if I recall, or co opted to some degree. But this more recent group, it turns out that the Harrington figure was a long time FBI informant. And that's not any surprise because you know, this is this is just
how this stuff works. And every time we look to these really clownish sort of you know, if you probably saw the Patriot Front people a few months ago, you know, marching and wearing there they basically look like ANTIFA, but instead of black, you know, they're just decked out in American flags, right, so very very cartoonist. They all look like buff Feds.
They don't look like you know, the Antifas, all these noodle stick people and then the Patriot Front or all these buff you know, they look like FBI guys or military guys. So it's they're pretty it's pretty transparent when you're aware of this stuff. But these and these groups seem to pop up out of nowhere. Right. We just saw for example, the bone Head guy,
I think he's bone face guy. Yeah, and that Rachel Blevins did a good art piece on him, talking about how he's just in there saying, yeah, the FBI and the CIA, they fly me around to Ukraine
and then they fly me back to or and I run this group. And so suddenly this group pops up right when, uh, you know, Elon Musk is said to be creating and causing, you know, Nazi movements to rise and through through free speech on Twitter or x. But yeah, so this is again there's a repeated pattern that I know, you know, for so many years of media coverage. Every time there was somebody who engages in I don't know, but every time, but almost every time, somebody's engaged
in some wild shooting event or loses their mind and a terror event. Oh, they just happened to be a long time on the FBI watch list, the FED watch list, the Foreign intelligence watch list, and well, well we watched them, we were you know, we we we knew what they were up to, but there's not much we could do. And it's always something like, well, we don't have the jurisdiction, we don't, we can't, you know, the laws don't allow us to just to just do
anything. Well, we all know that's a bunch of bunk. And because these situations are very, very useful, and that's the key to glass ideo and gladiol really has its origins in paper clip. Ironically, because everybody's talking about paper clip today because of what you were talking about the first hour, the Trudeau faux pap going on there and this is now now I noticed operation of paper clips trending on Twitter and SS was trending last night. Now it's
going to paper clip already. Amazing. Yeah, So basically, the fascinating element of this is that people don't know in the post war period, uh Rynard Galen, the famous SS believe it was a general. He had set up probably one of the most extensive and elaborate and effective spy networks throughout Europe.
And when the Nazis lost basically the OS, the OSS, basically Bill Donovan and Dullus and Frank Wisner said well, hey, we'll give you clemency as an individual, but you're going to hand over your entire spy network to us. So he did that, and then what happened was he got clemency, and then the CIA based would become to say they basically took over all of those old Galen networks, and that becomes what we call Galen org.
And then Frank Wisner, who is also the brainchild behind Operation Mockingbird, he sets up what's called the Office of Policy Coordination, which has this innocuous name, but it's actually the CIA's black opposite division, and so they take over the these networks. And these networks, by the way, have been set
up also in the Ukraine. So if we're wondering where and why there's all the Nazis in Ukraine, well this the Galen organization has set up a pretty extensive network there when you know, the idea was that at that time, tiny mustache man would come in and he could take over Ukraine and use that as a bulwark against Russia. So that network though was not just in the Ukraine or in Germany, it was basically all throughout Europe. And so you
had people in Germany running this network like Franz Ola, Hans Auto. These are former SS guys. They were all trained by the CIA, and then they they got money from the CIA. They were again nothing really changed. They just formed the new Western German intelligence network of the B and D out of Galen's network. So that I mean, you look up on Wikipedia, the first head of a German Western intelligence post post World War two was Galen.
So the so called you know Liberal West was really just a bunch of the same networks putting on a liberal face. And that's why GLADIO was so successful as a strategy of tension terror operation. And that's what we see these mass shootings and we would see these big, big terror events and all that.
It really echoes all of the information that was part of GLADIO, which didn't come out until nineteen ninety one or ninety two, and it's pretty fascinated because there were there were people at the time who didn't know what it was called, but that we're writing books in the late eighties and early nineties, and they had already made these connections. The guy that writes they wrote the original book on the Papacy and the Vatican Bank and this connection the name of
its God's Bank or something like that roversal Calvy story. He didn't know about Gladio, but he was he was beginning to understand that the Bologna bombing connected to this network of the strategy of tension people. And then you get nineteen ninety one or two Committee of three hundred book by doctor John Coleman. The first two chapters basically talk about Kissinger running these operations in Italy, but he
didn't know yet that it was called Gladio. And then when Paul Williams wrote his book in twenty fifteen, enough information had come out that basically Kissinger was running especially Gladio in Italy. So this effectively gave the CIA and via Kissinger, total control of the Italian government. Because Licio Gelli, who was the headman in Italy for Gladio, the head of the P two Lodge he basically
answered directly to Kissinger. So so, more and more information has come out that really vindicated a lot of the people writing about this in the late eighties and early nineties first theorizing about it. A lot of Gancer's book in indicates this as well, and that all ties into again these these fake fox Nazi networks, because it's really it's not really any different now. It's the same power structure, the same networks that are still there, for example in the
Ukraine, that can be utilized and called upon. And so every every time this, you know, this information comes out in examples like what we just saw with Trudeau, right, and the media turns around, Oh, there are no there are no neo Nazis in Ukraine. It doesn't exist, even though it's like a gigantic portion of Gladio and the Galen organization. You know, we have people you know clapping these former cheering on former SS individuals. Well, but it doesn't exist, you see it, There is there are
no Nazis in the Ukraine. Yeah, So as far as Italy goes, a country like that, I suppose typical for Europe at the time, but it was the strategy of tension to demonize more of the because obviously there was some very well established and insurgent communist parties throughout Europe. What was that the
main focus or was there more that was a big part of it. I think also the CIA had longer designs to really steering use the Vatican down the road, and that's what we've seen, especially in the last few decades, because Colby is the first to go. He's the CIA station chief in Italy
before he goes on to run the Phoenix Probe and Vietnam. And when he's in Italy he's the one that's really brokering the deals with Pious of twelfth to ensure that if the CIA gives money to the Vatican Bank and helps them essentially win the elections as you're mentioning there for the Christian Democratic Party versus the communist Christian Democratic Party, religious becomes kind of an adjunct of the CIA over there, and they want to ensure that there's not any leftist turn in Europe,
which could then allow for the supposed Soviet Stalinist Soviet invasion of Europe. Right. So this is, as you know, the just the auspices for wag Gladio's necessary is that will Stalin could at any moment, you know, infiltrate or excuse me, invade Europe. So we gotta have these stay behind units. And they weren't just in Italy or German and they were all throughout Europe.
You had these basically trained black ops cells that could engage in all manner of sabotage, assassination, false flag, mass shootings, content, all those things were on the table. And one one famous example that came out was the Eldamorrow kidnapping and that was that was according to Coleman, and I think the later information and the Williams book back set up that was run by Kisser.
The Kisser basically was telling Morrow, your your plans for Italy don't align with our plans for Italy, so uh, either stop or you're gone. And so what they did was they used one of their fake groups, the Red Uh, the Red one of the Rebrigads. The Rebrigads were used to then kidnap and and assassinate Morrow because Morrow had plans that would have actually benefited
the Italians. And so the main, the main issue here is that that's not what the designs of the Western power elite were at that time for Italy, they wanted to at least some people theorize that what they wanted to do was experiment with austerity and collapse in Italy, and so they wanted to see if they could move Italy into you know, culling and the industrialization. Not that Italy was a powerhouse of industry, but they tend to for whatever reason,
they want to use state as small nations like that. I think, you know, look at Kouf. You know, Italy was chosen as kind of one of the early test beds for rolling out a lot of the COVID nonsense a couple of years ago. So yeah, definitely, yeah, And that's I think that's because they had, you know, the West had much like Germany, you know, post post World War Two, they had significant sway and almost almost total control of Italian, the Italian government through this secret
you know, Gladiol structure that the Kissinger was running. Yeah, I know, definitely there's what you call deep state. That's for Italy. There multiple deep states. I would think between the Church, the factions of the Church, the Jesuits, the Lodges, plus the intelligence agents. He's plus plus plus. Uh, there's there's quite a lot there, So, yeah, that would be the ultimate multi layer cake when you're talking about this, Italy
is definitely one of the big case studies. Yeah, and that's why the terror was necessary, because it was you know, it was a key element of destabilization. And yeah, I mean that's that's what the you know, Gladio doesn't just do that there, It does that in other places, I think pretty effectively. And most of the Gladio writers, as you know, they they speculate that or uh, don't of a speculation. They make a pretty good case that the strategy of tension model was just really copied and pasted.
You could argue that even in Vietnam there was a kind of strategy of tension techniques that were used with the Phoenix program. Some of the Phoenix Program people were also involved in Gladiol. I think of people like Colby himself for
example. Colby is again the one that really set up that relation and ship between the Vatican Bank and the CIA, and I think the deal was after all of this, there was a huge economic collapse right after all this stuff came out in Italy about Gladiol, then the mafia superstructure that was in place, A bunch of them got arrested in the in the early eighties and the
economy collapsed, the bank that these Gladiol banks went under. A bunch of Vatican connected shell companies went under, and so according to Williams, this allowed the Western power structure elite to step in and say, hey, we're happy to bail out your Vatican bank for a few billion dollars. You're going to do what we did. We want now and this is where you begin to
see according to now, this is fascinating. This is according to both pro Western CIA writers like John Kaylor's book on the KGB relationship with the Vatican as well as Paul Williams, very critical of the CIA in the Cold War period Gladiol but both of them basically vindicate the usage of John Paul the second as a key CIA figure. And this is why John All the second was pretty much meeting consistently with both Kissinger and not Colby. Who's who's the other?
The Catholic CIA director just went blank in Casey Colby, kate Lin Casey Yeah, so uh yeah. John Paul was meeting pretty regularly with Casey and Kissinger to to basically be used as the symbolic figure in the Cold War, and this is actually why you see him, you know, in a lot of these sort of stage publicity photos that the CIA organized to set up to you know, help sort of further the idea to follow the Wall. And John Paul's the key symbolic figure that helped in the CIA win the Cold War.
But the reason that that was all, you know, the Pope was so subservient to all of that was because of this basically Vatican bank takeover and money that had funneled in from the West from the CIA. No, this is E're opening up some very interesting segues. Now. I'm with author Jay Dyer from Jay's Analysis dot com. We're talking about well clandestine subterfuge on a global
level, operation Gladio and more. Look, we're going to take a quick break here with TNT Today's News Talk, but we will be right back after these messages, so stay right there. CNT Radio's Jeremy Now and jem warfare. At least in Brazil. The reason why I sit in not Europe is because in Europe they don't know what a woman is anymore. Brazil, I still do, yes still, but wait some more years, it's changing. They also start changing the language, making it lettins stuff using the suffix a
or women and o or men or masculine words. They would just simply use an x ever and that's very common already in Mexico, and they're also starting to do this in Brazil. So Wocas is a big swamp. It's gett into Brazil as well. But until now, they still know what a woman is Brazil, which is which is a good thing. Europe they don't. I'm telling you that you could be a woman. I mean you're probably a woman in Europe, or you just say hero woman. They have to accept
it. No, not in Africa is about to say we are the last bastion of hope. When it comes to that, come to Africa and ask somebody what a woman is and they're just laugh in your face and they don't. They don't even know what wolcas. If you talk with them about wolkers and they're like, what the heck and you explain to them, they're like, what the heck. Oh, it's something their culture will not allow.
Jeremy now Today's news Talk T and T Radio. We've come so far as a nation, we are the envy of the world and our future is limited only by our belief in each other. Now we have a choice debate. Do we give into guilt and division or do we say no, no to those who want to divide us. I've decided to vote no because the voice will divide us. No to those people who think all Indigenous Australians think the
same. We are not all the same. And there's a lot of us original people that are voting no. No to those who want to change the rule book of the country. Why let them divide us because we are all Australians. We are one mob. Come on, Australia, let's stay united. Vote no to the Voice of Division. Authorized by Matthew she In Advanced
Australia, Canberra. This is the Patrick Henningson shell on TNT Radio. All right, welcome back, Welcome back, leadsure, gentmen, in the final stretch of the final hour here of this live broadcast on a glorious Monday on TNT Today's News Talk. I'm your host, Patrick Henningson, pleased to be joined on the line right now with author, philosopher and really good geopolitical commentator Jay Dyer is with us from the USA. Right now, Jay, how
are you doing. I'm good. Thanks for asking, Patrick, I'm just sort of you. We were talking about Francis. I didn't see that Francis had said, don't stop sending the guns to Zelenski. That's interesting too, because Francis is always talking about how we need to be disarmed, and he's supposedly against the death penalty. But but I guess for Zelenski there's an exception. There's an exemption, there's a dispensation, there's a papal dispensation, and
he can fight, he can have self defense. Yeah, this is the Jesuit pope here, Pope Francis Burgoglio. I can't pronounce his. Archbishop Vegano calls him by that name, Brogolio. I can't pronounce it properly. Well, you know, he's interesting too because he factors somewhat into maybe not directly Gladio, but all Condor, which was the CIA operations. And I guess he was in Argentina, right, he was the cardinal from Argentina. Is
that right? Yeah? And so you know Condor had to do with the CIA support for the right wing operations down there, many of which ended up being very brutal, and Francis received a lot of criticism when he was elected
to the papacy because of those older connections. My suspicion is that, you know, as a prominent Jesuit and being in that kind of a role connected to Operation Condor, he was probably long ago co opted or or you know, figured out how the world really works from this the band foont of this power structure. He also had as his mentor. The guy's name escapes me,
but his mentor is really close friends with Cloud Swap. So his mentor, Yeah, his mentor was a famous liberation theologian who's really good buddies with with Klaus, and so you know, it's not not to me, it's not surprising anytime I see Francis really just totally Maybe he really goes the light years beyond anything that we even saw people like John Paul the Second or Paul the six. I mean, he's really he takes it to the next level.
I guess I should say. So, I want to ask about this side of things, you know, the sort of the left, the environmental movement, the Greens. Normally people are not going to associate this with intelligence agencies, but if you look at the I believe the work of Daniel Ganzer with I believe it's NATO's secret armies. In his work he talks about at that time, the US was trying to get nuclear tipped cruise missiles stationed in Europe. I think Minuteman missiles, not minute Man, but there's the type
of a cruise missile that had nuclear capabilities to it. And and then the C and D was was was a big anti nuclear campaign group which kind of emerged popularity in the seventies and eighties, and so that you also saw the and that radicalization from other terror activities than bait or mine offers and all these other groups. Yes, all competing for headlines. This caused it more of
a general clampdown that kept other groups off the street. But then again they would have had to infiltrate, infiltrate all these other groups as well, just you know, the the FBI's equivalents in Europe in order to kind of control them so that they're doing the right thing, so to speak. But what in terms of that side of the story, and you know, green environmental groups, nuclear campaigners, what what what are some of the things that you
have learned in that area. Yeah, absolutely no difference. I think the Bottom Mine Hoff Red Army Faction and the Red Brigades and the Weather Underground. Interestingly, the more I think about it, there's pretty similar patterns with radical groups that appear to have, you know, funding from sources that are suspicious, dodgy, not that concern with environmentalism or liberalism, So you know,
where's this money coming from? You know, these are these are supposedly poor hippies, you know, people that want to save the earth, tree hugging, granola eating people. They don't typically have a lot of money and arms on hand, but lots of these groups end up suddenly having that. And
I did an interview recently with Sammy the Bull. We've been doing several podcasts and beyond his takes on JFK and Marilyn Monroe and you know, the organized crime relationships to those events, which he's pretty candid about, not that he was involved, but that he heard about things and thinks to the organized crime
and the intelligence stages we're working together on those. He also says that he had spent time in prison with one of the Weather Underground people, and in that case, the Weather Underground guy told him that he was always mystified by the fact that you know, people like Bill Ayers were able to escape trouble go on to become professors, run foundations and write books about a lot a lot of the you know, the underlings and the dupes that you know that
they took the heat. So they were basically the tad seas I guess for these kinds of operations. But I was reading about bottom mine Hoff recently and I didn't realize that. I think they had attempted some kind of prison break for one of their one of their girls after the so called terror events that they were engaged in, and that was very similar to the Weather Underground prison
breaking timp CIA CIA operative Timothy Leary out of jail. So if you bomb the police stations in the jails and trying to break your friends out, I'm gonna I'm gonna get suspicious. But I think, you know, you start to see these patterns of the radical groups being used by people who are not that radical, so they're they're just useful dupes and patsies. Yeah. I always thought Bill Ayres would have fit the perfect mold for a you know,
covert federal informant or some type of operative. And that's the same Bill airs if I if I recall paid for Barack Obama's higher education tuition or something like this. Yeah, they have very close relationship with the Obama's Obama's mother. So I mean, I'm just saying it's, uh, you know, quite
a network. Well, I think you mentioned many years ago the character of course smaller in regard to the bottom mine hoffs because here you have this guy who's this radical leftist, you know, he's a maoist, and then he becomes suddenly neo Nazi down the road. So you know, these are these are odd, they're not add if these are suspicious people, but you know, if they're operating, if they're operating for the establishment, then it makes
perfect sense. So I don't know if that's exactly the case with this guy. I just think it's interesting that when you look into these guys the things are involved in assisting in the prison escapes and trying to you know, blow blow holes in the jail and get people out, and trying to get them to engage in you know, violent actions. That's typically you know, federal informants are allowed to do that. In fact, the BBC presenter, I don't know if he saw this the other day. But I forget the guy's
name, but he's he's a BBC presenter. I guess he's fairly well known. The environmentalist guy who's saying that it's time for environmentalists to engage in illegal actions. And he basically says something like, it's not something that I'm feeling cold too, but maybe you'll cold to it. Right, it's not and that's not incitement, isn't right? Right? Yeah, he gets away with that because he's a BBC presenter, but he's have you seen that video?
It's it's pretty comical. No, I please share you with me. I will. He's reflecting on He's like, we've time and again it's exactly the same lines that we hear from Greta time and again. We've seen all politicians won't listen, they won't heat our words, they don't want change, they don't want to take action on climate. Well, maybe it's time for people to take illegal action. Not me, but maybe you need to. We're tired of your empty words. Oh my gosh. Yeah, they love it.
These tropes never go out of style. They're very effective. Yeah. So yeah, it's they're you're talking about the chameleon, right, Going from far left suddenly showing up as a Nazi, and the one that comes to mind, and this is like major black mirror territory we're getting into here.
But Sarah Ashton Cirillo, formerly Michael John Cirillo, the English language spokesperson for the Ukrainian military who's trans, turned up a couple of years ago trying to infiltrate the Proud Boys as a trans far right kind of young character or whatever. Before that, it was a bloke with a wife and kids, and then shows up in Ukraine as a blonde, as a woman with man boobs, and you know, a trans spokesperson suddenly wiggles their way into the Ukrainian
Ministry of Information and doing these totally over the top videos. I mean, it was crazy, and recently got sacked. They finally had to basically let them go because it was a huge embarrassment and then became an embarrassment for the State Department. And I'm looking at this thing and this story is crazy.
This is just pure insanity. But what I'm saying, Jay, is that in the era of social media and the ability to publish these videos and do all this LARPing on Twitter and these different platforms, This is like next level stuff compared to that type of activity was, you know, thirty forty fifty years ago. You might get a couple of headlines in the paper, you might get a blurry interview with sixty minutes or some deep throat parking garage interview
or whatever. Now it's like all in your face all the time on Instagram and everything. So this, this Ashton Cirillo phenomenon, to me just typlifies the total chaotic nature of this sort of LARPing in the twenty first century. Now, maybe I'm Ada Lue here. Is this the Ukrainian spokesperson that was talking about the Russian devils need to be crushed? Yes, yeah, American, Yeah I saw that. Okay, yeah, Yeah. It's bizarre to me that it's almost like, you know, and then Zelenski wants Marina Ramovich
to be the ambassador I mean for the children. This is for Yeah, this is just wild. I mean it's maybe there's is there is Are they insane or is there a method to the sincanty That's what I'm always trying to figure out, or they're trying to just figure it out themselves and they're just
going for it. But it was. It's interesting that they would choose, if you believe that this Ashton Cirillo character was is LARPing for the deep state, that they choose somebody in a protected class, i e. A trans absolutely so that that looked like that was the angle, and this is how it was able to kind of persist. And then at some point it reaches this saturation point and becomes like a massive embarrassment for everybody, and then all
of a sudden, nobody wants to talk about it. It's literally brushed under the rug. You don't hear their name anymore in any of the press. So it's like, but but we're seeing you see this time and time again, So you can't like the prow Boys, Oathkeepers, JA six, A lot of informants, very high profile, have huge social or media followings, and yeah, you can't hide or you have to kind of play out your
role digitally as well as for government agencies or whoever you're working for. Yeah, I think that in a lot of these cases with these groups, the key element that we have observed over the years is that you want to if you're the establishment, you want the voice the face of these groups to be
somebody cartoonish and clownish. Right, So what the informant or the provocateur or the what they want to do is to get the really most radical element of a group or a sect or a you know, activist collective or whatever. You want the most radical one to really become the face of it and to push the envelope to push over to the window that well, everybody else is not really following the agenda except for this you know, super radical guy.
He's the true believer, and so we've got to match his actions. Maybe let's make him the vocal frontispiece, the face of the group. And this functions very well to uh, to control the group. Why they would want this person to be I think maybe this has to do with the strategy that they've been using since this war in the Ukraine kicked off, was that let's paint the Ukraine side as the uh, the rainbow flag and trans side. If you remember they were they were doing that early on. If you if
you support trans rights, then you're with Zelinsky total. This is the war of you know, the transvestites versus Putin's fascism, right, they were characterizing
it that way. So maybe they're they're thinking that if they continue to, uh, you know, make this association, then people in the West will default to not just siding with Zelinski, because I'm sure they know that this has a this is a time, This is not gonna last forever, This conflict will come to an end at some point, but people will have remembered. You know, when I put out my Ukraine flag out front of my porch in uh, you know, Tampa, Florida, I was also hoisting
up my Trans flag along with it. And I'm not joking either, Like when you drive around. We drove through Orlando the other day and we were drive through different neighborhoods and I noticed quite a few hous not many, but the houses that had Ukraine flags hoisted up also had Rainbow and Trans flags hoisted
up. So there is this, there is this association in people's minds with you know, Zelensky somehow represents the trans and gay rights agenda, which I suppose in a loose way he does, but the two don't really bear any connection. But they do bear a connection for I think the longer plans of
the deep state. Yeah, that makes sense, and it makes even more sense that they would put an Ashton Sorillo character into that role to make it an existential issue, you know, fighting for the existence of that rainbow flag. Putin wants to snuff all that out, and he wants us all to be you know, heterosexual, binary, traditional societies. We need to we need to stop him. Zelenski's our man, and Ashton Sorillo's there to kind of you know, well, most Americans don't know anything about Ukraine, and
so how do we tie them into having a concern. Oh, we make it a quote humans, human rights issue. So pick the you know, the latest cause the lab it's not BLM, it's it's it's trans rights. So, yeah, that's true, and a lot of antifas supporters, they will reflexively support Ukraine, it will be pro war, they'll reflectively support. You can almost predict. That's the scary part. Jay. Now, this this this social political engineering operation that's been cultivated over the last you know,
twenty to thirty years, has has been very successful. You can almost predict when you meet someone what they're slate is what their you know, profile pictures will look like. If you scrolled back on their on their timeline for the last ten years, you can almost predict what issues they're going to support who they're you know, like right there, all the current things completely lined up in it right there, and almost like that's what it has to be.
You have to kind of it here. We're becoming a very tribalistic society in that sense. Yeah, I think this is an element that people have overlooked, which is we know about dividing conquer, but dividing conquer is not really just about uh, you know, racial identity or socioeconomic identity. Right. The dividing conquer, for example, in classic Marxism is the working class versus
the you know, the bourgeoisie. Now, the that has morphed into identity politics of every shade of every form, and that would be the It's weird how they've tied it to flags. You know, there was a Saturn live skit many years ago though that was pretty funny where Andy Sandberg was just making fun of different kinds of flags and how everybody's sort of identified with absurd types of flags, and it was just a really kind of silly, absurdist,
saturate out live skit. But it actually is insightful because what they've done now is given everybody the ability to choose your own flag. It's almost like a consumerist commodity. It's completely divorced from you know, who you are as a person, where you what country you come from, your family, your family's
heritage of religion. That's all kind of been discarded. And now the flags are in one sense, you could say consumerist identity with Hollywood or Star Wars or Marvel type nonsense or Disney. But now it's even to you know, your sexuality, you pick your flag. You know, let's let's make our
own flags at our own will for or whatever identities we make up. And it's just a perfect kind of not only is an identity, it also allows for a kind of pseudo self righteousness where you can champion some cause that you feel as just or you feel as right. And I've had a lot of debates over the years with all kinds of different people, and in most cases people won't have any reason or explanation as to why these are just causes.
They just think that it is. They just think that they're right. They've not put much thought into well, why do I believe that something is right or wrong? Why do I think this is a just cause? Is it a just cause? Why are the Fortune one hundred, who you know, leftist ten years ago thought was the enemy. Now they're the champions of whatever.
You know, the Fortune one hundred tells them to do it, tells them to put a rainbow flag out of it, tells them to put their bio as a black square in honor of BLM, which ended up being a giant fraud, money laundering operation. As ever running, Uh, you just do it right, you do it because that's how you signify that you you are a socially just person. So social justice has has replaced the old ideas of religious justice or objective morality in the sense of you know, people having
a religious perspective. Now the new religion is the civic morality. Social justice, UH, and identity politics, none of which has any basis, is all completely arbitrary, completely absurd. It is divorced from reality's postmodern because you know, you can identify as one thing one minute and change your identity the next minute, So there's absolutely no connection to reality. And I actually think this is I think there is evidence from Tavistock and Sri that this is like
an intentional uh. They want to cause mania. So the stabilization isn't just gladio and bombs and shootings. Decabilization is destabilizing, the demoralizing the population. Yeah, that's what they call in fifth generation warfare. The exactly the cognitive infrastructure, yes, which is between your two ears. Yes. Well, the NATO dog document on Cognitive workers said, much like Klaus said, this isn't just changing your thought process, This is changing your brain itself. Yeah,
yeah, isn't it. Marshall McLuhan said, the medium is the message, So you know how the information is being transferred, how it's being handled, what what platforms you're using that that rewires your brain basically right, and also to eventually get under the skin and change your very DNA like Klaus said,
yeah, well that's it. That's that's an interesting concept because there's a whole field of science about DNA being programmed by you, by your will, whatever direction you're going in your environment in the world, that's going to shape you know, your teenage which is which is an alternative you could say, an alternative study of genetics, but it's actually got a lot of traction in recent years. Epigenetics, i think, is one of the terms that's used
for that. That's really interesting, you say that because there's actually a good scientific segue to that, So maybe there's there's a lot more there than people
realize. Yeah, I was just looking back at between two ages that resents getting looked at that in a few years, and within the first fifteen pages I think it's page fifteen, he talks about that when the technocratic era is really in place, they will actually alter human biology itself, and so he kind of hearkens back to Island of Doctor Moreau by H. G. Wells, and he says that, you know, humans are plastic, they're malleable.
There's no such thing as human nature. And since there's no human nature and the plasticity a man, he says, yeah, basically, the elite, the technocratically, we'll be able to mutate man into whatever form they want to make him, essentially just a sort of malleable cog in the machine. So it's again one of these things that pretty much in all the global elite
texts that we've lectured through. Yeah, they're pretty consistent about this. Jacque Atili has a whole chapter about being put into the global brain, Brazilski talking about it. I mean, they're all pretty consistent with that Klaus in his twenty eighteen book talks about it. That's what I think. I think. I think we're suffering from that now as a civilization, that global brain,
global group. Think there's tons of this going on right now where people just immediately will just fall right into a groove that's already been carved out for them and without without even being conscious of it. I see this so often now, how globally not just and that that might explain that all the global crisis and the global reaction, how efficient it's been hurting the global hurt if you will. So, I think there's definite more to explore in that area.
Jay. I think this is a rich vein to tap into right here, and hopefully you'll be doing more of that in your work, and I hope we can continue this conversation in the future. Before we go, just a minute left, Jake, give a shout out about your books, where people can find your material, how they can get engaged with you. Yeah, you can go to my website Jason Allisons dot com and you can get access to the archives there for four ninety five a month. You can also get
the books in the shop. My wife's books are also there. I have a big six hundred page book out with all the geopolitical and theological essays from the last ten years, all kind of collected in the one book called the Red Book, and you can find me on Rockkin on Twitter under my name Jay Dyer. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much, and also thank you to ar No Devilay. In the first hour, I'm your host,
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