Jay Dyer Vs Rome, Protestants, Islam and More! - Jay Dyer

Dire wave. The scientific method cannot justify the scientific method. Therefore itself, it is a dogmatical presupposition. It's a lovely man voice.

Not a effeminine positive defamation.

Yes, welcome, we're live. I think should be good. We're here, and today it's a little bit different. We're going to have my discord with me because I'm scared. I need all my backup people because I'm afraid of Ejahs and all the Muslim I'm joking not but we're going to do Q and A or stump or debate or whatever. Now, if you just want to come on voice and ask questions, you can do that through the discord. I'll put the

Yeah, you get debate Jordan Peterson if you want.

If he wants, you got him right here.

Okay, I'm ready to debate. I can debate anyone right now, ready to go.

So if you don't want to come on audio, thank you, Jordan. Uh, you can also leave me a stream lab super chat question or challenge right, it's it's the challenge is open. We make it really easy to debate, Like, it's super easy to come debate. There's no hoops. You don't have to jump through hoops to come debate here. It's very easy. And now I've even opened it up to audio, so that is the link there. If you want to join the discord, you will have to be vetted, of course first,

All right?

We got a good crowd here. Be sure to leave a like and a thumb up. Well that's the same thing and then also share it super chats. Thank you, okay as a mod there, he's putting the stream lab superchat there as a rough outline I'll be covering just because we're probably waiting for people to come in if they want to. We got a couple of Roman Catholics

Silence?

I mean we had I know, I know. So we opened this up today because we had a lot of Muslims talking and you know, making a lot of fuss, and so we opened it up. We had two or three Muslims talking smack all over Twitter. And then I said, come on, I even I'll even let you on here. Well we'll do a live stream. We'll start at the live stream, come on and debate Bra, debate me, Bra, and the dudes just left. We at least the dude that was talking to Smack left, So so I thought

Or Yeah, finding Muslim people to debate is like trying to herd cats.

We can't find them. Right. We got the chebar Ali debate.

Okay, he did great in that I think shaver ally comported himself honorarily. And then now suddenly everyone's scared. Now it's no debate, no one debate Jane, and we.

Can't find them.

So it's like they accused lots of ox Christians is being scared.

We offered the debate.

I mean, we've said we've done three debates with Muslims, now, so how are we scared?

It's just nonsense, yeah, exactly.

And then they set up conditions that they want to groups.

For us to jump.

You don't debate me on a blood moon, on a leap, ear in the middle of Texas in an underground cave at two am. Then and we have to debate only in morse code I want to be and it has.

To be you have to wear seal skins and it has to be more code.

But you have to write haiku and then you have to record that morse.

Code onto slate tablets, and then you have to have a blind.

Man readout has to be translated into Hebrew and then written on vellum.

Yeah, it's like okay, it's like, how about the.

Next thing. It would be give me ten million dollars and I'll debate you.

That'll be the next thing, I require a debater's fee of half a million dollars to appear.

I have three goods and four CAFs.

Please, I would also my way, all right, so read check out? Yeah as well, guys.

The debate has to be done in sign language or Braille. If you don't do an animal sacrifice, if you don't do it in braill, it's because you're low.

Like yeah, all.

Right, so, uh, you guys, just you guys interrupt me. You guys can interrupt me if somebody comes in, if they want to do is there anybody who has any questions or challenges or or debate topics issues? I think I shared the newer link, by the way, so there's the new link if you want to come in. Uh, there will be people vetting people right now, so you guys can come in. I'm not talking to any I'm talking to you. Who am I talking to to you? In the chat?

Bro?

You Byzantine in the chat in the discord chat. You can come on. It's open, dude, We've got to open.

Can you tell people to change the AVI? Is the profile pictures on Discord from the default because we kind.

Of have a rule against that.

So yeah, so if you come into the dis you come into the discord, you got to do our rules, all right, So when you leave you can go back to whatever you want, but in our discord, please follow the rules.

Uh have a charge.

Okay, we don't really do no hintai avatars, no, no whatever, there we go.

No anime advatars.

Yeah, we don't do that.

You know this small us in the general.

Yeah, that's that's the guy from a couple of nights ago that we spent the whole night with. So, uh, he says he's going to come in. Here we get a uni E who says he'll come in. But we had this discussion for about three hours the other night. So now being mean to the guy, I'm just saying, I think I know where that chet's going to go, But if nobody's going to come in, I'll just kind of like wait until people come and I'll talk about some of the notes from Pelicon.

Go ahead, Yeah, Jay, So I've been watching your stuff for a while.

It's really interesting, But I was just wondering if you could like point to.

In the early church, any points where a father is saying that, you know, asking for the intercession of saints is Okay, it.

Gets explicitly mentioned up by the time that you're dealing with Augustine or with the Cappadocian saints Cyril in the categorical lectures I think mentions it. I know Augustine mentions it explicitly in multiple places in his writings. So yeah, I mean you can. You should be able to pretty easily google like church Father's intercession of the Saints, like that's not really too controversial of a topic.

Yeah, yeah, I mean I guess in my own research when I look into it, it seems kind of not like explicit, if that makes any sense.

Well, it is explicit when it becomes a question, right, So by the time of Jerome, actually Jerome talks about it explicitly when he writes multiple letters against like Vigilius and the other guy who questions relics and saints, and he writes this really funny treatise just making fun of the guy, telling him that he's basically possessed and he actually just needs to go touch the relics to get

Okay, thanks, just coming for a Processant background.

Right, understand, understand, I mean, but I mean there's no uh, I mean, I could just turn that around to Protestant and say, where is the Protestant canon in the first second third century.

Yeah, of course, that's that's one thing that I've been sort of struggling with and you know, looking and listening to your talks, you know, and help me out understanding it.

Word right, Thanks, no problem. Yeah, so we got you're our first caller in the pseudo live call in stream. Welcome. You were my first ever. I don't really like the idea of calling streams, but whatever, I thought it'd be fun to try it out.

Long time listeners, Yeah, you're on the air.

I've got the documents, folks, you're on the air all right. By the way, only an intercession of the saints, I mean that's even in scripture, right, It's even it was even in the Jewish tradition prior to the Church, right. So I'm not saying that's true, because I'm just saying there's early attestations to that. There's prayer, prayers for the dead, and Maccabee's there's the idea of the intercession of the saints. Just comes from the idea of the intercession of saints

Exactly.

That's also in the Book of James. In the Book of James, at some point Saint James, because of the Lord, says that we have to pray for one another. And in other places we know that people, even after the physically dies, alive in Christ. For if you can pray for one another, you can still do it on one specifically sat person is dead. And Saint Jame's also mentions the fact that the prey of the Righteous are especially powerful.

Yes, exactly, good prayer. So this is a scriptural there's a real spiritual.

Basis for all of it, and we can see it being attested in the early history of the Church and even in the Old Covenant.

There's a full continuity.

Right. Gert for three dollars says, what do you think about lucid dreams? Uh, we don't really. I mean there are lucid dreams. I've had lucid dreams, but we don't really pay attention to dreams and visions and this kind of stuff, which is not say it can never be done.

Yeah, absolutely absolute. It's funny because in my department up in the office, you know, the Social Sciences building, and I was disgusting with one of the professors I think they were a psycho ecology professor, and they have this like reading group and they said, one of the things we do is we interpret dreams. And so this issue kind of came up from an Orthodox perspective.

So you have these groups of people that.

Will interpret dreams and trying to attached mean and so we Orthodox shy away from that just because you could think about all kinds of crazy stuff that the conclusions that you could come up from.

That's not something that we particularly would suggest is safe to do.

Let me ask you one go ahead.

I was just going to say, also, when you know, when a woman talks about our dreams, you just want to shoot yourself in the head.

So boring, So like, we don't really want to encourage.

Men to do that either, Father Deacon, could you give us a brief because we have a lot of people, I think in our chat who might be new to these topics, just a brief explanation of maybe, in contrast to Protestantism or Roman Catholicism, what is the spiritual Father and why is that important? Orthodoxy?

Yeah, So one thing that excuse me, that we worked about are keenly aware of in our practice and our theology.

Is what we call spiritual delusion. Priest and all of us have it.

And what I think so dangerous about spiritual delusion is that you don't know you have it, Whereas a temptation, it's very easy to IDENTI that the fact that you could actually be being manipulated by demons under the guise of something holy and spiritual impure is quite dangerous. Now, as far as I know, Protestants don't even have a concept.

Of having spiritual delusion.

They may talk about temptations and correct me if I'm wrong. In my study of Roman Catholicism, I don't think it's even addressed, is a concept of something existing. And I think it's really important that not only do Protestants not have a concept of being spiritually deluded, but have no mechanism on how to cure that and treat them. And I would say this is something that's so important in Orthodoxy.

Why we have a spiritual Father is that if we.

All assume I'm constantly being manipulated by demons, not only in temptations, but being spiritually deluded and thinking that oh, this is from God, or this is something holy that I should be doing, maybe I should maybe God's telling me to interpret people's dreams or something like that. How do you know that you're not deluded? Well, you don't

Of the you know, the muck.

And so what we turn to is an advanced physician of souls who's experienced, and.

We make ourselves obedience.

So, as we say in Orthodoxy, there is no spiritual problem.

You can read all.

The theology books that you want, You can go to school and get all the degrees and never make any spiritual progress. So the whole point of Orthodoxy is to make spiritual progress to heal ourselves.

And you need a physician. And so you make.

Yourself obedient, even as hard as it may be that your spiritual father tells you something you're like, I don't agree with that. Part of the obedience is I'm no longer going to trust in my own abilities, and I'm going to listen to the spiritual Father. And because the spiritual Father, the priest is a sacrament, there is grace bestowed. So even in the faults of individual men is priests, the grace of God still comes through that sacrament and that office.

And so.

When you're obedient to your spiritual Father, you're blessed. You're blessed by God, and you begin to again, a spiritual father is somebody that's like a counselor and a doctor that knows you, knows your spiritual medical history. And this is why what you don't want to do is being jumping around from different priests and making confessions, and you need one spiritual doctor who is taking care.

Of you and can help you in your own repentance.

So I'd say that's something unique about Orthodox that not only do we have the concept that we're all spiritually diluted, we have the mechanism in place in the structure of the church over the last two thousand years for dealing with that. So that's not something a lot of people talk about.

But I'm Jay, I'm glad you brought that up.

Yeah, well, we got some questions about that because people thought that I was saying that you can't talk about a dream. No, what I said was that it's in the Orthodox tradition, you have a guide, right, Paul talks about being Timothy's spiritual father, So you have a guide that you know helps you sort of discern who's actually been down the road already. That's the point here. It's not that you can't talk about these things. In fact,

Bro?

Hey Jay, I'm a Roman Catholic bit of a layman. I just had a quick question. You often say a movie portray real life. I appreciate the work you do as far as the esoteric work. I just wanted to know the Orthodoxy position on spiritual battle as far as demonic possessions and you know, demonic things that are in living people's houses, because you know, we always see Roman Catholic.

Priests the forefront.

As far as handling this battle, I just wanted to know the Orthodoxy position on debt.

Yeah, if you're not talking pretty mute, yeah, yeah.

Of course Orthodox Orthodoxy does house blessings. The priests do this like once a year they go around and do house blessing, So there's there's no difference between the Orthodox and Catholic view of that kind of stuff of sacramental theology, blessing the house, blessing water, blessing rivers. I mean, this is very common in the Orthodox Church. So of course we believe in the reality of spiritual warfare. I mean all of the spiritual ascetic writing is about battling the demons.

I definitely appreciate the comments.

Yep.

Also, Father Georgia Korro is really good at He's an Orthodox priest that has a lot of experience with possessions and exorcisms.

Oh yeah, that's who you mentioned in the past. We need to do it interview with him, Yes, exactly, Ulson says, for seven dollars, here's my imp to roasting you. I'm late to the game. People won't debate you because you're doing brain keto royds. No, sorry, bro, that's that's not a good joke. It would be fair to say that ninety percent of your audience is happy that you did

I think they're pretty good. I think they're technically under the EP. But as far as I've heard of it, I haven't heard any problems.

With he says, with my finished roots, I would feel like it's more natural to join that, But people from the Russian Church tend to speak against it. I don't know. I don't know the drama.

That's because there's a you gotta know the history between Finland and Russia, right.

I don't know what is what is the isue, so.

You know, acquiring lands and wars and stuff like that. So there there's some sensitivity with that. That's not a theological issue. That's a cultural, a cultural issue. I don't personally I imagine this person's asking in Finland because I'm trying to think, like what other Finnish.

Orthodox churches there are outside of Finland.

I mean it sounds like that's what he means.

Yeah, yeah, I was just gonna say, I'm ethnically finish, and our greatest hero is our greatest hero because he killed like a lot of Russians.

Like a lot.

Yeah you know, do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, so, like a lot of Russia.

Like he killed a lot of Russian so and that guy's out national hero.

So like Russian Finland relations are still sketchy to this day.

So basically, you're defending du that is what you're saying. You're here to defend.

Yes, I am a douan Is, but I get we must.

We must train the American the right wing to take down America.

The Dougan Bitcoin.

I get that, and I share before Jed Dire and kJ be on Twitter.

Uh.

Anyway, is there anybody in the discord that wants to speak up?

Yeah? I had another question?

Is that?

Okay?

Sure?

A bit of a lament question.

During this gism when the church is separated, I wanted to know how it worked when it came to going to battle together against you know, Islam and the Crusades.

How did all that come together? Did they you know, get together and it was.

Okay for that time when they just separated, you know, just a little bit of clarity on that situation.

No, I mean the Byzantium was sacked. What do you mean?

I was wondering because the schism was in ten fifty.

Four correct officially, Yeah.

And the Crusade were a little bit after that, correct.

Yeah, there were there were at camps.

Yeah, there were several attempts to kind of unite, and that offered, uh, what we thought would be kind of a promising lead to possibly be united in something, and it kind of backfired. As Jade pointed out, Byzantium was under attack, and uh, we thought that we could unite and call for the help of the Latins and it really didn't.

Work out well.

No, the Latins eventually sack the Latin Bysanthium eventually.

Okay, man, you guys, I appreciates the answer.

Man, Yeah, I'm wrong, dude, Hey Jay, yes, sir.

I only have a minute, but I did wanna I guess ask you already know me as far as we talked for a really long time yesterday or the day before. If you remember, you probably talked to a million people. But anyway, I guess my question is okay, good.

Your question as well.

Craized Latin.

I guess the clitice learned about extraordinary form, visit team, all that kind of stuff, as well as the Orthodox UH spent about tens visiting Eastern parish Orthodox parishes to the priests.

Yeah, I remember the story. You don't have to. I'm not trying to be mean, but I remember. You're cutting out.

Bro.

If you want to leave the discord and then pop back in, it usually resets the setting. So maybe you won't be cutting out, but you're cutting out right now.

Kristen diving into the possibility that she might be in the wrong.

Bro.

But it Hey, I didn't hear any of that. You cut out for all that, damn, so so exit and come back.

All right, all right? But oh the joys discord.

If people want to ask a question and you don't want to hope on stream, just go. If you're in the discord, go to voice text General. I tagged everyone there. You can ask questions and I'll see them.

To Jay.

This is the first ghetto pale attempt at a call in show. I don't even like the idea of Collin shows, but we were trying to get okay, well, well we were trying to get it. We were trying to get Is to come debate, and he wouldn't do it.

But we got a question, what's.

The explanation of Noah's sons and grandsons having different features and skin color?

Why does it need an explanation? What I mean, people go into different climates and there's a symbiotic relationship between you know, people's physiognomy and their environments. I mean, there's nothing wrong with adaptation. And you know, yeah, people go into southerly climates, they're gonna you know, gradually developed, you know, darker scin or whatever. I don't see why that's even controversial.

Okay, we got another one.

What would you say to people who tell you the Bible is impossible because of dinosaurs skeletons existing.

Well, there's two possible answers. I think that anything that modern science proposes that is bound up with Darwinian naturalism can be legitimately doubted, and we have a basis to be skeptical of. So there's a lot of questions about quote, dinosaur skeletons to begin with. But even if they are real, the Book of Job speaks of all kinds of things that could absolutely be a dinosaurs. So there's nothing inherently contradicting about either position is conceivably defensible.

Yeah, Behemos is a good example of what could possibly be a dinosaur.

Saying, okay, another one, do you think.

That the Orthodox and Catholic Church could unite in some way in the future. Personally, I couldn't see it. I'm not sure what your take is, Jay, So I just wanted to ask and know your side.

No, I mean, there's our like if you look at Metropolitan surfim Prius, he wrote a long letter to Francis. He's a famous Greek Conservative bishop. He wrote a long letter saying the thirty four or five elements that the two churches could not unite over. That would have to change. So that's the classical Orthodox position. It doesn't matter what

Okay, now the question these questions are rolling in, so thanks to everyone in the discord, can you discuss the difference in Protestant Christus Victor versus Orthodox attirement?

Well, Christus Victor is an attempt to borrow elements of Patristic ideas. So there's nothing inherently anti Orthodox about some of the ideas of Christa's Victor. Because the Lutheran theologian that I think it was a Lutheran guy who went back and tried to reconstruct different theories of atonement from the Patristic period. He's just borrowing from different church fathers

Yes?

Just read book three of John Damascus and he explains perfectly in line with all of the Eastern fathers before him and many of the early Latin fathers as to what the orthodox doctrine of the death of Christ and the Atonement is. The last part of book three is the perfect excellent harmony with Christology doctrine. And the Protestants, especially Calvinists, end up as historians with their doctrine. It's that easy, so we don't have to go into Lutheran speculations.

We have another one, curious on your views on the Church of the East.

Yeah, we don't accept that as anymore than any of the other Churches of the East, the so called Orientals. They're just as much in schism as the others.

Okay, short answer love that in what sense would an Orthodox say that Pope Leo was the archbishop of.

All the churches in the same way that that same phraseology is used of Con Sentinople. I mean, these kinds of glowing terms and phrases are used often. Uh. The Alexandrian patriarch it is sometimes referred to as the head of churches, the head of all churches Antioch and Basil's letters as he uses that same phraseology. It's that there's a common usage of florid. Uh, what's the term that there's a there's a term for like the glowing phrase

Okay, we got another one. How do we get people over the quote sky daddy.

Argument and the quote if God good, why bad things happened?

Mind? How do we get people over that?

The easiest way to go about that is just to point out that to do basic pres up first of all, like we're not calling God a sky daddy, as if there's a one to one correspondence between the earthly notion of father and a heavenly literal father. Those are what's called analogia, right, There are analogies between human fathers and God. The Father doesn't mean that God is identically literally a quote guy with a long beard and a dad. He's spoken of as like a father, but he's also spoken

Uh.

Ironically, atheists even do the same thing. They will speak of nature like it's a mother, like it's an artificer, like it's a designer, like it's a personal cognizant agent able to create and make things, when it's an impersonal chaotic force. So they will do that. They will do the exact all right, booting that guy, just doing that, understand.

Yeah, I can see.

I'll keep my eyes by the way, even better, look at the personification of science.

Yes, we got almost three hundred people, by the way, welcome everybody, Thank your father digging. Go ahead and finish that. I thought, if you want to, well, I mean.

If you notice, let's consult the oracle science. Science says, it tells.

Us, oh, yes, exactly right.

It's perfied form of deity that you go to the oracle and givinize.

Your Yes, the science gods have spoken that COVID you know, doesn't affect riots, right, but it does affect anything else exactly. So, so sky daddy God, I would just do a basic prese up and say that this, First of all, it's not accurate. You guys did the exact same thing with personification of nature, and then you turn around and act like nature has no qualities like this, there's no actual design actually in nature, as they all argue, But then they turn around and talk like there is te loos

Okay, next question is, yes, what advice would you give to an atheist who simply confine it within himself to believe?

I mean, belief is not a like thing that you work yourself up to. I mean you have to repent, you have to change your life to believe. There's a symbiotic relationship between the repenting and changing our ways and the acquisition of the gift of faith. Right. I mean it's all grace ultimately, in the sense that God is the one that's giving us our providential situations that lead

Also, I'm going to send you a someone ask that you put up a screenshot of each as his tweets, So I'll send you a screenshot.

No, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. I'm not We're not doing stupid drama. I mean it's an open invitation. I've invited this guy for eight months to do a debate and he just talks around it all do it in six months? Oh were you you made fun of me? I didn't make fun of you. This is all he does. He just asks, you know, it's it's just drama. I'm not doing that. I mean, we set up we set up a debate with we set

Okay.

Another question, is there an attempt to unify the Church of the East and Orthodox Church actively going on?

I don't know. I don't keep up with that.

I don't know.

I mean, I know there's been discussions with Monophesites. I don't know about Syrians.

I don't know.

Okay, can you explain what is meant by formal distinctions in God and why Orthodox reject this.

Doesn't matter what terms you use, because we're not Scotis. If you read Scotus's treatises, he has two treatises on the unicity of God and the Existence of God. I've got the treatises right over here on my shelf, and go.

Okay, we've got a question that I think if Father Daton is there, I think this would be a good question for him. So I'm an inquire in a very evangelical family. They really don't like orthodoxy, and I don't want to be evangelical anymore.

What do I do? I can't drive yet, and I don't know anyone orthodox around me.

I'd say, tickets slow, thank you for your question. I get a lot of these questions and you know, consulted with my spiritual father on how to approach.

These sorts of things. You know, as many of you converted, know.

That sometimes you spend a long time is a catechumen, many years. It can be a slow process. So I'd encourage you if you can't get to a service that you know, we have a Catechises program on the discourse here and in fact, I think we correct me if I'm wrong, Jay and Lewis, but we have a Metropolitan Jonah aiding in that process. I'd say, really start trying to you know, get some good reads. We have a

So I think we can help you, and we can.

You know, you're not hopefully you're not going to be living with your parents forever, and you know, pray, pray that God, you know, provide the means to eventually attend a SERVI us and.

I would definitely suggest don't argue Orthodoxy with your parents.

Just try to acquire the spirit of Orthodoxy, and they'll notice a change and they'll begin to inquire, what is this new thing that you've found. That's what i'd suggest, So feel free to write any of us again, We've got a lot of great resources and you can still experience Orthodoxy and.

Learn a lot about it that way.

I'm not upset. I get tired of the same questions over and over and over. And when we do entire streams answering those questions and then people ask those questions over and over and over, that's I'm not upset. I'm just saying that it's already been dealt with. We've done this million times. And also because I know the people that will rely on these kind of bogus, you know,

Okay, we have someone in voice chat who wants to ask a question.

Welcome manifest.

Yeah, can everybody hear me?

Fine?

Can you all right?

So my question is kind of a compound question, but it's adhering to one ultimate questions. That's okay, Okay, So my question is are you familiar with the letters written in the late nine hundreds and early one thousands, going back and forth between Roman Constantinople that led to the Great Schism, and would you, and if so, would you please explain for us the contents and refutation to the Roman Catholic argument at the Orthodox Church schisms and not the other way around.

Yeah. Read Francis de Vornik's entire book on it, and he is one of your top Unity eight scholars who've been indicates and admits our position. How's that?

Okay?

What was the name of that book again.

Father Francis de Vornik, The Phocian Schism. It's a famous, well known book.

I think it referring to the you know, the business.

Yes, okay, but I'm saying that the Vornick covers that whole period of the Phocian Schism.

All right, thank you. I'll look into that. Okay, thank you.

Manifest Okay, next question, Jay, how do you see the alien slash extraterrestrial syop evolve in the coming year.

That's not really what we're here to tell. I mean, I mean, I specify it's okay, I mean I don't I don't know. I mean, it's entirely possible that they could throw that kind of a thing at us. After all, the corunka nonsense. I don't. I don't personally think it'll go that far, but it could. But I mean, we're here right now to talk about I said, atheism, logic, metaphysics,

Okay, back to the questions, sure.

Okay, So when I asked, would you end capturing Christianity debate?

I know this has come up before. I think Capturing Christianity refused to debate, didn't he?

Well, we were supposed to. I was supposed to debate inspiring philosophy.

Uh.

And then they said they said that I had to agree to not make any quote insults, which we'd already agreed to the debate. And then they added on these new criterias that you can't say anything critical or insulting of the other person. And I said, well, that's too vague. Uh, And I said, I'm We've already agreed to a debate, and I'm gonna You know, if I make a mistake

And Cameron, if you're listening, if you don't want Jay, I'm always here and I'm a nice guy.

Father Deacon is much nicer than me, So he's uh, he's a better he's a better philosopher, more, he's well, he's more trained than I am. So feel free to also have an interaction with Father Diacon. Doctor Annias, We've.

Got another question.

What are your thoughts on the visions of Bishop Hieronymous. I've got angelos. He prophesied the mass future conversion of Germany to Orthodoxy, as well as the destruction of the papacy in World War three, as well as a final ecumenical council to stamp out every heresy.

I've never heard this as new to me. I don't know anything about it.

Yeah, heard that.

Sounds pretty cool, but I don't know what about it. Would you be willing to debate ef Dawa, Dude, I've already debated. We had an aazam before on they uploaded this to the channel. I mean, here's a challenge. So Christianity has been on the defensive debating their texts to the Muslims for thirty years in you know, online audio debates right all the way back to twenty thirty years ago. Right when is a Muslim actually going to step up and defend their theology? They never do it. They won't

Anyway, Okay, we got another one.

We have literally like two hundred questions.

No, hold on, hold on, So there's a guy in the chat say that is false. No, your debates, You guys won't debate your texts. Shaver Eli did not want to debate his text. I don't just mean the text itself. I'm talking about the theology of those texts, right, the Taoheed doctrine, the Tanzi doctrine. You don't want to debate those doctrines. That's what I'm talking about. It's not a cop dude, What are you talking about it? He says.

Now it's like seven or eight?

Yeah, what are you talking about? Total nonsense? All right, sorry, go ahead, Grido, do.

You want to Oh?

So, someone asked, I know that there have been critiques of the Catholic view of Mary where they almost view her as a co source of salvation. How is this different in the Orthodox Church where they ask Mary to save.

Us the same way that we ask anyone else to pray for us and save us. Obviously her prayers have more efficacy because she's the highest of God's creation. Right, But Paul says, in doing so you will say you know, he says, keep this, this, this, and in doing so you will save those around you.

Right?

Does Paul mean that creatures become saviors like Jesus? No, this is the standard typical Protestant heretical slipped up on words. You guys get slipped up on words because, just like the Muslims, you think that words only have one meaning in one sense. So it's just the word concept fallacy. It's two different senses to salvation. Right, you can have a person who aids in your salvation without being the ultimate source of the salvation. Paul says we are co

Yeah, Greg, In.

General, another one, Keny the deacon, you'd probably want to can you outline an atheist starter kit for Orthodoxy? What should be the duties of an ex atheist before joining the Orthodox Church?

Well, Father Deacon, while you answered that I'm gonna go we we So do you feel free to take over here.

An atheist starter camp, start a kit? So, like what should like an atheist person, like what books should they read?

Like?

What what what should they buy first? Coming into Orthodoxy?

Like nihilism?

Yeah, Father Sarah and Rise is great. Ye.

I'd also probably supplement some of the Orthodox reads with.

See because I'd say a lot of the atheists you encounter are just deficient in the rich history of kind.

Of theism within the kind of concepts, even like Aristota on the Plato that.

And then.

John I would probably the Orthodox faith saying John Damascus would be good because then you're you're talking about the attributes God. Let's see, you could always have them reads.

He's brothers. Karen is off too. That's converted a lot of.

Uh.

I'm trying to think, you know, just generally, something that I noticed is that.

Most atheists that we encounter are generally deficient in the great works in literature and theology.

So you know, Leje Toli, just take up and read it. That's what I mean.

If you you never want a strong man your opponent's position, so when you go into debate, you know, like us, we read as much as possible of our opponents theology or philosophy and literature so.

That we're not misrepresenting it, so that when we do form a critique, the critique is a good one. You don't want to ever straw Man. And I think that's something that most atheists could learn from.

You know, you get these people like Lawrence Kraus, even like the popular atheists.

Dockings. None of these people have studied philosophy.

Let alone theology, yet they're going to formulate these stupid straw Man critiques. So again, I just think it would be a really good atheist starter kit, great books, liberal arts program. There you go, because you're going to get the church history of the philosophy.

All right, Okay, I'm back and we're done.

Yea. I was just saying that, actually, you know what a good atheist starter kit.

Would be.

Simply a great books, liberal arts program for atheists. Uh read Well, I'm just saying they're deficient in the literature. They don't even know, you know, what they're talking about when they're formulating these critiques.

And I don't think I think it would be beneficial not just to read up on orthodox theology, but.

The history of Western thought in general, going back a Greek philosophy as well.

Oh, I guess I highly doubt Lawrence Craft ever read Crime and Punishment.

Okay, next question.

Crime and Punishment is great, by the way, I highly recommend it.

There's one of two thousand books on my reading list. I have a book for every year that I have a book for every year that the earth has existed. It's like two thousand, roughly two thousand.

Okay.

What significant theological differences exist between Eastern and Oriental orthodox other than the Calcedonian issue.

I've not been able to find.

A good articulation of their differences other than the Calcedonian controversy.

They're not united. A snack you could probably speak to this. If you're in here, you may have gone. I don't know, but I mean, they have a lot of division. They meet like once or twice a year, and they just kind of act like they're in communion. But they have all kinds of vast divergences amongst them, from animal sacrifice to circumcision to all kinds of bizarre things. So I'm not trying to be mean, but I mean that the Oriental quote unquote Orthodox Communion is not really any kind

It's more similar to the Anglican Commune, where they will have like new large differences and even like vising them, you will have you know, the Armenians today they are more Cacedonians in terms of christology. Yeah, again circumcision because in marriage, use of living and unleven bred.

Animal sacrifice.

Between these ches, you're forgetting one of the other crucial differences neck, which is that the Ethiopians have a different canon from the rest of the Oriental Orthodox, so they include.

I mean we have slight variations again between the different works.

Is that.

Yeah, when it comes to the it's like really different, Like they literally have changes to the New Testament, which is.

Yeah. I mean there's all kinds of other issues too. I mean that the the the I mean, you got like the poption out a writing a whole treatise a few years ago against the Osis, which is I mean ludicrous, unfathomable. It reads like something James White would have written. I mean, the idea that you could be an Orthodox pope of Alexandria quote unquote, that's they're called the pope of Alexandria and uh, you know you're the successor to Athanasius and

Yeah.

And by the way, some people opposed it in his church for doing this one.

Snack snack you cut out there? Can you repeat that?

Yeah, there's been a lot of opposition because it's inside this church.

So this Matthews the poor where you have burst it.

He read the Fathers in Greek and he taught Theosis and at this point and he was one of the biggest mystics of the Coptic quote.

Well, imagine having this stress on the union, but right, I mean they have this over emphasis on union when it comes to who or what Christ is and then turning around in denying Theosis. This is it's like, I don't know, I can't fathom how. But I mean when you when you read their theology in that guy's theology, or if you listen to David's debate, I mean, if you heard David's debate, it's they're they're like all over the place, right, you start talking about energies and they

Excuse me, Okay, what would you say to someone who claims that John seven, five, three through eight to eleven is a fabrication by the early Church to push Christianity over Mosaic law, or just the fabrication in general.

We covered this in the James snapstream. We did a whole stream on this. I don't even think it's out of accord with the Old Testament. Go listen to the James snapstream we did on textual history.

So, yeah, because in mosaic law you had to have the man who she committed with you exactly.

That was what the issue was.

Yeah, I mean in many in many other places, Jesus absolutely upholds the continuity with the mosaic administration. So the idea that there's not continuity is kind of ludicrous. But go ahead, Okay, this.

Is for either you or Father de Yeah. Are my prayers for others, both alive and past, even uh even heard?

If I'm not baptized in the Orthodox Church or participating in the EU Christ, do you have any recommended prayers for those who have died before finding Christ slash Orthodoxy?

I would answer that yes, God can hear all prayers because God, it says God heard Cornelius's prayers before he was baptized.

All right, Yeah, and you can use any prayers.

The only place that non Orthodox aren't commemorated is that the alta in the preparation of the Eucharist in the Proscamede.

That's it.

Jordanville has a really good prayer book if you want one of those.

Yeah, bather Digan, did you want to comment on that, I mean to cut you off.

No, that's exactly correct answer.

Of course, got.

All our prayers. But at the same time it encourages.

Us to go further into Orthodoxy because the prayers are a righteous man avails much.

And so I try to use that.

As you know, it's hard to motivate myself to do stuff when I just think about myself. But if I realize that you know, other people depend on me. And I don't know how all of you feel about this, but for me, that's kind of a motivating factor.

At lights a fire and it needs me. And the that's.

Something that we could do, is that know that you know other people depend on us, and that maybe I can't motivate myself to get, you know, further my spiritual life.

The fact that if you get further into spiritual life, you will be helping others is a wonderful thing.

Garbage man has a question for seven dollars that looks like it's probably intended to trap me. The position on the church is that the church is the new Israel. So that should tell you the obvious answer to that question. It shouldn't be very hard for you to figure that out. Although I do appreciate your appreciate your seven dollars. There should be plenty of quotes that explain to you what our position is. Gert sends a dollar and he says, in the future garden City, will we go back to

I'd avoid the what's called the woke PC translation of the Bible.

We might actually get, Yeah, I get an orthodox study. By yeah, I would say, I don't know what, but which which one are you talking about? Like N I V or something or I'm just you mean, like when they come out with the like the the literal woke Bible exactly, they will probably have like the woke study Bible, right, Okay, And.

Yeah, and it's just a prosperity gospel and uh liberation theology.

That's it.

That's your wife stuff, right. Next question.

The next question is what, if any difference is there between monophysitism and mea physicism. Is there an actual difference or is it just an attempt at obfuscation by the Orientals.

Yeah, I mean again, all of these have been dealt with with hours and hours of streams with David me and David. David has an entire lecture course on this topic. He just did a stream on my physicum. So go to David the real medwif's channel. He did a two and a half hour stream on my ephicitism. And yes, there is an orthodox way to understand my physitism Saint Cyril of Alexander, the Christological controversy. That whole book is written by Father John McGuckin to explain that topic. So no,

If he, if he has issues, is more relativism. He presumably believes in the existence of moral facts, which are.

Also not matter. Right, So you're talking about value judgments, right, if you're making a statement about something being morally wrong or right. Well, if everything's just matter, there are no value judgments. Everything just is, you say, So saying something is wrong requires categories that are not identical to or reducible will to matter or states of matter.

It's called the naturalism, Pallas.

Exactly, Thank you, But great question. They're searching much appreciate it.

Okay, what happens to people who never heard of Orthodoxy after death? For example, the Pagans that died before they had contact with Christianity.

How are they judged?

So I think we had this same question about an hour ago, and then we had the same question, yester, I'm just laughing because that's why we're doing this, So we don't have to keep doing this. I mean, so again we have the heroing of Hades doctrine, everybody that died before the coming of Christ were told in the New Testament they were in Hades. Peter says the Gospel was preached to those who were dead. Jesus descended into Hades at his death to preach the Gospel. The church

An interesting factoy into tradition, Plato heard the Gospel while in Hades and repented, and he actually appeared to a monk and told him to stop cursing him.

Entirely possible. So I will there, funny, here is the Here is Ubi Petris's patristic list of fate of unbaptized infants. So that will kind of give you an insight into the question you're asking there. So you've got quotes from iaron a is talking about the recapitulation that Christ's incarnation reaches to all of human nature. Gregory, the theologian, Gregory, of course, spoke often of this Ambrose, Innocent, Zosimus Carthage.

Okay, we got a question, which is actually four questions from a Muslim, so we'll just go one by one. So how come the trinity is hard to explain when the Bible says in First Corinthians fourteen thirty three that God is not the author of introdusion.

Okay, so just because Paul says God's not the author of confusion, if you look at the context, he's talking about people who were being riotous in the church. He's not talking about theology. Paul talks in many places about difficult theological writings. In fact, Peter even says Paul's writings are difficult, so difficult and meat Hebrews calls doctrine. That's me.

Yeah, I'd also.

Say, if you're interested in I just want to add is check out the videos I did with bo on the Trinity, because I think the current sort of popular Eganitarian or social Trinitarian view where the divine essence is, you know, God, is the problem that a lot of Muslims might end up having. So we need to reinstate the doctrine of the monarchia of the Father and the energies absolutely because if you go by Cappadocian theology, they

And then because all the persons participate in that, well that's how we we call why we call them God.

But the whole, the whole premise of the Cappadocians who did to basically fleshed out the Trinitarian theology was to just absolutely deny that you could predicate any name of the divinessence, including God or anything. Okay, so that's not yeah, yeah no, So just check out the just check out the videos I did with both at Orthodox you had us.

Just go over to my community tab on my channel right there, the community tab, and if you look at the first one there, David has a three hour lecture on Mayaphi site. So there's the answer to the myophasite question. Scroll down a little bit and I have a one hour talk from two days ago with al Fadi on the monarchy of the Father. So it's all it's all right there, or you can go to.

My twenty four hour talk hours. By the way, guys, I'm gonna I need. I want to say what a blessing, my prayers to you all and great questions and thank you Jay Lewis so Bros.

Thank you, Father. Well, I'm still here. We got we got our largest crowd yet, We're right.

Yeah, I just I just wanted to bow out in case there of questions directed at me. Okay, I'm sure you guys will be fine to answer that.

I'll put Father Deacon in and eye. I'll put everybody's channels below as well. When the stream is done, so I'll be sure and follow Father Deacon and then they'll have Lewis and Kai and everybody's snacks stuff too. So David as well, Thank you, Father, appreciate that absolutely.

David. Yeah, O cool.

Thanks to see if other from this, let's try let's keep trailblazing through these Muslim questions.

Yeah, can you explain why the Trinity is not in the Old Testament and why it was only reviewed during Jesus's missionary.

Like every debate and topic that we've had on this top on this question is arguing the Trinity from the Old Testament. So first of all, go look at all the things that we've done to date, every time that I've had a discussion with Sam, with any the whole list that I put up on the whiteboard, it's all the Theophanes of the Old Testament. That's the Trinity. Okay, Father, Son, and Spirit are all over the Old Testament, so go watch those and you'll see where I cover all the

No?

Obviously would we therefore conclude from that that Isaiah is false because it's not fully revealed in Abraham's day all the things that Isaiah said. Of course, not so in the same way, just because not everything that's fully revealing in the New Testament is not present in the Old Testament. We don't cancel it out. That's just presupposing that we're not the fulfillment, but we are the fulfillment. That's the point here, right. The New Testament is the fulfillment of

Can I add to that, guy I Chris here he can add as well, is the we have to really consider also that even in Islam there's a development of the theology of God over debates for centuries after the Qur'an.

Yeah, but as we see every time we get into this kind of argument, it's moved the goalposts. Right, Oh that's the case for you, but not for me.

But in all fairness, if I can just must yeah, yeah.

Muslims in the majority, they are even just completey ignorant of their own traditions, and so they don't even know that there was this development within Islam itself. They are typically of a mindset like that Islam is has been static for fourteen hundred years, that it was revealed and hasn't changed one bit, and so they just either there's just a dumbfounded when you start encountering them on this, and then they'll just start making up.

Excuses and this and that, switching positions. Yeah.

Yeah, it's just important to note that, you know, if you want to, you know, we're happy to say, for the sake of debate, if you're willing to accept that our scriptures hold our core doctrines, then we're happy to accept that the Quran holds the you know, the specific like ashari or matter ready formulation for the sake of debate.

Either, right exactly? Yeah, excellent point. How chicken baby five dollars can you explain the Trinity? For NWBS? There is an eight minute video that somebody clipped where I did this kind of an explanation of the Trinity. I think it's on this Institium Bourbum website or channel. I'll post that, but basically, we believe on the basis of what's in revelation what the Trinity is right, so it's not sitting around and philosophically speculating. Primarily that gives us the doctor

Is it this?

Is it that?

Is it a hologram an angel? Right, so they have the same debates right going on that we will see when we bring this topic up. Right, It's an echo of the debate that that Justin Martyr has with Tripho. What does Justin mart keep going to the Angel of the Lord. Right, Why is the Angel Lord given worship? Only God can be worshiped anyway. So the easiest way to start with the Trinity is I got lost in that explanation. But these way to start with this is

Right.

I Mean, there's all kinds of things in the world that do have a one and many aspects to them that the church fathers frequently make usage of to demonstrate a one many relationship that's analogous to God, not a one to one correspondent's been an analogy. They do it all the time. They do mind, will and soul right or spirit as an analogy, on on and on. So there's all kinds of things that are analogous to something

Next mism question, Okay, so this is or from the same guy.

The next not mind memory boring questions, So do you believe the Bible is preserved or even a trustworthy document about the life of Jesus and his teachings.

Absolutely, we have we have to believe that. I mean that the doctrine of the inspirational Scriptures is part of our dogmatic theology. There's no church father who denies that.

Yeah, the next part and then thank God, we can move on. He says, if you have Okay, So he's posing necessarily.

If the Bible, if we believe it is not preserved, you don't need we don't need to ask that one.

Yeah, I think we'll just skip that.

I mean he said, he said, he said, if you accept the Bible is not preserved, the question for but we we accept as preserved.

I mean there's yeah, we don't accept that premise.

So yeah, it's dumb. Okay. It's like saying, can you imagine infinity?

Could you imagine a well, where's that? Imagine a universe? Was there is a planet with a computer and no gun?

The quant.

Yeah, if you have the machine else maybe they can take chill infinity.

Uh okay.

Next, is is there any good Orthodox books that deal with Buddhism or Eastern religions?

Does Saint Nicholas in Japan have any books on this subject?

Orthodoxy in the religion the future deals with the far Eastern religions. The now of Christ deals with the Eastern religions.

Yeah, and that's what I mean, Baba seraph and rises biography has.

Some good stuff in that.

The easiest, the easiest response is just orthodoxy in the religion in the future, because he's he's talking about Hinduism. But I mean that's kind of encompasses all of them.

Really, Okay, does the Guru, the young man, and older parties right humans? Yes?

Okay.

Does Islam have a one and many problem? For example, if truth is one in many, how can the Islamic God be the metaphysical metaphysical condition for the multiplicity of unity of truth itself when Allah is without multiplicity in his being?

Yes, exactly. I mean that's an argument I've been making sure well stated.

The mainstream Sunny position has more multiplicity in God than the Motazila Ads position that was rejected by mainstream Studdyism.

Yeah.

And I mean, even though there's all these different schools because of the you know, emphasis on the transcendence of God in Islam, I don't think you're going to ever get a really sufficient coherent answer to that problem. So there's always going to be the assumption of unicity as metaphysically a ontologically prior or primary or superior. So they can't really do justice to uh distinctions or multiplicity. And by the way, it doesn't matter if they admit that

Okay. Yeah.

That was one of the Jewish and Metazula critiques of the Asheri and mat Ready position was that it was too Christian because you believed in like they believed in, you know, subsistent attributes that weren't Allah.

Mm hmm. The problem that.

We can't hear you. You have to speak up, you're really low.

God has to be absolutely unique, which makes it difficult when you up at the group of.

God such with life that are probably showed by Greek.

Yeah, there's no analogy in that position.

Yeah, the one of the many problem meticods very clearly.

Okay, next question, I'm confused about the Christian explanation of suffering, and I'm hopeful that the Orthodox view can offer a more compelling explanation than the Protestant one, How did sin have the effect of changing the fabric of reality from the perfect pre false state to the current state after the fall, so as to introduce suffering to the world. It seems like the laws of physics themselves are in

If you want, if you're asking how in the sense of the mechanics, nobody knows that. If you're asking how in the sense of theological revelation, well, we're told that that's the case, because the entire it's not like all of the fabric of reality was changed. I mean man's body. We have animalistic bodies because of the fall. Right, we don't know what the pre false state of man's body

Yeah, I also like that that is a very high IQ way of asking the question, if God real, why bad things happened? It was Yeah, very high IQ.

But the same question Chris says for thirteen dollars and nine cents, God bless you for your work. Well, thank you, Chris, much appreciated for that.

Okay, trying to find guys, please don't clutter it with your like Jay's answering questions, not you.

Guys, So please don't clutter it with your answers. Okay, where can someone from a.

Schismatic Apostolic church find out where they differ specifically as in the reason why they are considered outside of the church.

I mean, I guess that would depend on what schismatic episode church you're talking about. That I mean, you're asking me where to find out how your church differs. I don't understand the question.

Yeah, are so let's see very Antichalcedonian.

So I don't know what question I mean again, go watch David's videos if you're looking for where we say we disagree with you.

Yeah, David's videos are really good. The Orientals are just scared of him.

So yeah, let's see.

If God is the infinite source of all being, from which everything ultimately emerges, how can it.

Be that evil things are not from God?

I want to believe that God is good, but it seems like I can't reconcile this with the notion of God being.

The source of all that exists.

So evil has no being and no subsistent ontological status. Evil is not a metaphysical reality. It's a negation, it's a privation. It's a movement of the will away from the good. So you will find that from the earliest days of the Church up until to present day, we have always explained what evil is in this way. So we differ from pagan religions, from dualistic religions, Manicheanisms, or Astrianism, and that we do not predicate any real existence to evil.

Would you would you agree.

With misstatement, like something like the lion increases in being and the zebra decreases in being.

No, that's like when the lion kills like when the lion kills.

The zebra some ludicrous, What do you I mean, Because.

That's just that's tomistic, Like it's because the lion, because the lion is for its own good, the lions seeking its own good and fulfilling its own good.

But the zebra. Obviously what's going on for the zebra is bad.

So but that wouldn't have anything to do with their their status in terms of existence itself.

No, yeah, but I mean in terms of just like good and evil, the zebra is being privated of it's good.

Oh well, that's that's so. Even the Western Church makes the Latins even make a distinction between different types of the senses of evil. So there's a the privatory sense is an analogy for the moral sense. So if we say that there's you know, if I lack sight, that's not the same thing as a moral evil. It's a privation. I lack the faculty of eyesight, so it's a it's a negation. But that's even distinguished from moral evil, which is you know, when I intentionally move my will away

If I could just add on to that, There's one egesis of Genesis that I really like in terms of connecting this kind of question is if you notice Day two of creation is not followed by and it was good or God identifying it as good. And the one thing that you can notice here is this is in creation where you start seeing a separation. And so then the separation would be analogous to this kind of privation

Yeah, I mean the darkness of Genesis one is not evil, right, It's some sort of you know, potentiality within creation for God organizing, you know, the creative world, you know, the original abyss, whatever that is. It's not inherently evil. And again darkness just like just like darkness isn't evil, right. I mean, scripture says you made the day, you made the night, right, there's nothing wrong with with nighttime? Okay. Those are just analogies to moral movement away, like when

Right.

But so often people are like worried about God's will for their life or what God's will is in scripture. He tells you what to do right. I'm not saying you can't have like a providential event that helps you make decisions. But people are so obsessed.

With like this.

I can't wait for the dreams and the visions and this kind of stuff. No, don't even worry about that. God has told you what is good. Scripture says, so you don't. You don't have to go through that bunch of nonsense. You are. We already know what the will of God is. It's revealed in scripture and in tradition in the church. All Right, it cut out there Sometimes discord crashes. But are you guys still there?

Yeah, I'm here.

Can you hear me?

Yes, sir, very good. I literally just lost my place. Give me a second. Six.

Okay. He has shown you, oh man, what is good to do? Justice, love, righteousness, you know, et cetera. Scripture says this. You don't have to be hunkered over in a corner, flopping around the ground speaking gibberish, waiting for some so called prophet in the charismatic church to tell you what God's will is. It's in scripture, dude.

And we have a history.

We have a historical question. Do you believe that the shroud of Turin was housed in Constantine.

I don't have any opinion on it. I don't know. I'm not opposed to this.

It was, Isn't that historical?

I don't know.

I mean, I mean, how can you have an opinion on a historical fact.

Well, I suppose some people can doubt what's believed to be historical facts. I mean, it happens in Academia.

Well, I thought the Crusaders took it from Constantinople back to Venice.

That's what I understood.

I don't again, I don't have any pro or con opinion of the shroud. I'm fine with it being Jesus and a real relic or not. I don't have any opinion on it.

Next question is, would you, father, deacon, or another orthodoxicologist in the circle consider writing a big book addressing frequently asked questions about Orthodoxy.

There's probably a book for it already.

No, probably not. Yeah, I mean I think we have plenty of those already.

So yeah, if we have plenty of catechisms, Like I'm.

Not a catechist, right, if you want to come to the discord, and you know, there's plenty of people who can do catechisis that's I'm not here to do that. So anyway, Yeah, the.

Admins here can do basic katakiss, so the baptized ones.

Anyway, there's plenty of resources for that.

So what is your view on divine command theory?

We have an aspect of divine command theory, but we also have aspects of the other views. I mean, if you're talking about moral justification like Utafro dilemma.

Is that?

What is that?

What they're getting at?

That was just a question what was your view of it?

Right?

So if you're talking about the Utafro dilemma, I mean I've answered this this many many times. We did Kallopian Club. We had two different hour long discussions and two different discord amas where we argued over this question. And I try to explain that we don't equate the command of God with so God doesn't have to submit to a rule that's higher than him. And every time this question is framed in the youth throw of the limit, they say, well, then therefore God can just will the good to be

Rip erse.

Onward as theo Von says, onward.

Okay, now what a back.

Yeah, next question.

Okay, So next question is what was the limit of the Byzantine emperor's powers in the church.

Could he appoint and remove.

Bishops he's not supposed to. He probably was involved in you know, those kinds of ceremonies or whatever. The emperor can go behind the Kona stasis, so he's almost given a quasi deaconant role because Paul describes the emperor as a diaconos of God. But anytime the emperors tried to do this, this was seen as a violation. I mean, you have many heretical, heretic emperors who tried to do this and tried to run the church and it never worked. So but no, I don't think the emperors like took

Okay, we got a little bit.

Pointed popes and stuff sometimes as well.

Well, that's a good point in the in the in the West, its same problems, right, I mean the papacy, as we just did that stream with snack, I mean, the papacy becomes a tool of the Franks, and that's not even in question in terms of history.

Okay, next question is this is a really weird one. I just feel like banning the guy for asking it. But what's the rationale behind the church prohibiting first cousin marriages?

Is?

Uh, it's practiced throughout the world, and it's not prohibited in the Old Testament. Also, the genetic defects that result from it are exaggerated. Yeah, okay, but I don't want to marry my cousin. I'm just curious, okay, don't I don't know.

I mean, for.

A friend, why can't I marry my president? I don't know.

You look at the you look at the Arab world, and then you say that the genetic defects is exaggerated. Is not exaggerated?

Bounty US five dollars? Couldn't a god of another faith system have revealed himself to be similar in an essence. In counter argument to TAG, no, because the TAG argument is not just a rational argument for for our view or an abstract argument. It's the TAG argument is the entire Christian paradigm. That's the point. That's the strength of TAG is that we're not arguing for a little piecemeal thing.

Oh?

Well, guess what, dude, that's from us, like you're ripping off us, right, you see what I'm saying. I mean, our whole system is already a two thousand year old into history system based on four thousand year prior to that Old Testament revelation. It's an entire system that we're arguing for the whole thing, including history, including the Church,

Okay, next question, Uh, I was wondering if Jay can give a short elaboration.

Of theosis difnation. Uh. Yeah, How it differs from Mormon view?

Well, so, our our view is not that you become a God of your own planet.

Right.

Our view is not that God the Father impregnated but Mary. We don't bear any similarity to the Mormon view. Our view is what the Church always taught, which is not the Mormon view. Obviously, it's a participation in the uncreated energies of God, which is not what Mormons teach. We don't teach that the triad is a literal Father with a body who impregnated Mary. All this goofy crazy that

Okay.

Next one is when God cursed the serpent to eat dust all the days of your life.

But that had been a reference back to Adam being formed from and returning to dust.

Was God telling the serpent that it would feed on dead matter and thus death itself?

Yeah, I mean, I don't think that Satan or the serpent literally feeds on dead matter. But there is a connection between the dust of the earth and the curse pretty consistently throughout scripture. Absolutely, just like thorns and briars and thistles will come up. That's an image that's used throughout the Old Testament of the curse of the Fall. So yes, in a certain symbolic sense, but not like snakes are literally eating dead things or something like that.

Okay, next question is this is from someone seeking advice.

He says, how should I deal with the fact that most of the priests in my area are gambling, drunkard di divorces, gallivanting with women of the nine.

So the christ I guess is, how do you deal with the fact that you have bad priests in your area?

Yeah? Well, first of all, I mean I'm not convinced that gambling itself is inherently always wrong. There's a little this is ambiguous territory. I mean, if if I have a business venture and I take out a loan or

Next question is, if the Creator is separate from this cosmos in a manner opposed to pantheism and panentheism, wouldn't the totality comprised of Creator us his creation be more encompassing than the Creator by himself, such that the aggregate of Creator and creation then comprise a greater entity than the Creator by himself.

And wouldn't this mean that the aggregate slash totality.

Would then better fit the characteristics of the absolute or God.

Then would the creator alone.

I have heard in places that Orthodoxy is panentheistic, but I'm not sure if most orthodox.

Would confirm, Well, this is equivocation on the notion of what is greater or not greater? I mean, on what basis are you saying that because there is God and creation, that's somehow greater. Now we would say, with Dionysius in the Divine Names, that the fact that God creates he did intend to create to express and to share his goodness. He wanted to share himself and his goodness with creatures.

You know.

No, it's just out of pure, overflowing goodness and love, is what Maximus says. So, uh, no, it doesn't add to his being. And there's no there's no, there's no aggregate goodness that like trumps the goodness that God has, because the goodness that creation possesses is a participatory goodness that God has. And by the way, panentheism is kind of orthodox, so I'm confused as to what what what

Sure, okay, cool, it seems as if we actually got through the questions.

Also cool, Well, we've been going for two hours, so let me see if there's any more of the super check questions. Uh, there's a.

Couple here that says we also got another one.

Okay, now there's a few here. Let's let me go back to where I missed a bunch of these. Well, a whole much Kung Powell for ten dollars? Why was the virgin Mary necessary? Could God create recreate without her? Sure? But God always chooses to use and have humans participate with him in redemption. God just wanted to do it that way because again, like I said before, creation occurred out of the goodness of God, not because God needed

Yeah.

I think a lot of people sometimes, especially Muslim critics, forget the whole concept of like divine drama and stuff like that, Like how do you talk about and Athanasius talks about how the crucifixion.

Had to be a particularly kind of violent and kind of obvious.

Things so that people would know about it and the economy and you know, like the divine counsel and stuff like that. Like God doesn't need to consult with his divine counsel to make decisions, but he does. And it's like a divine a divine fittingness to all these things, to this order because it's pedagogical as well for us, it teaches us things.

Yeah, I mean, God didn't need Abraham to intercede for Sodom. Orrybody knew that he would, and he chose to operate through Yeah, creaturely co operators. As paulses, we are God's co workers. God didn't need Amos to intercede, but he wanted Amos to intercede.

Ythan says, well, that too.

He's like God didn't need like he didn't need Moses to raise his staff to split the sea or anything. Like, he didn't need all these human specific human involvements.

To a lot of the things he does well.

The incarnation is thus a affirmation of the goodness of creation and God's will to use the created order, because it was always his intent to become incarnate and always his intent to use the created order. That's key. Creation itself presupposes incarnation. That's what's unique to orthodoxy. Let's see Bounteous for five dollars, could God create? Wait, Noah, that's the one I already answered, peak brain capacity a dollar.

Right.

So Jesus answers this very question by saying, go to the scriptures and study them, and you will see that they have all kinds of things that show them to be miraculous. Right, they predict the coming of them Assiah. Look up the messianic prophecies start there, and then you'll start to see that the book itself is of divine inspiration. That's the visible proof argument that Jesus uses. Right, he has no problem just saying, look, if people rise from

About you.

Yes, this Creation early means.

Oh, I think he's talking about.

Yeah. Anyway, So I am going to continue this talk. I think we'll close up the Q and A. I'm gonna keep going because I did say I would do this, and it is time to finally dude the Pelicon book. So I'm not going to end the stream. I think we'll close up the Q and A part and then if anybody wants to continue with me here on YouTube, I'll just continue doing this stream. But I'm not going

This, and.

Church of Eternal Logos tonight will do our part two in the next few days. Jamie and I will do our part two in the next few days. And thank you to all you guys on the discord for chipping in, and I'll put everybody's links and whatnot.

J before you cut off, If if I could ask, did you want to maybe make an announcement with regards to what is Seminin's Metropolitan Joonna has.

Planned for the server, Uh, sure, if you want, If you want to go ahead and announce it, go ahead.

Yeah, I can just announce this.

So we're waiting on some more information hopefully forthcoming next week sometime, but his eminence, Metropolitan Joonah has offered to start up a weekly ctaschtical lecture your series right here on Jay's discord, so stay tuned for that. We'll make some more prominent announcements as we get more information, but hopefully next week we'll we'll have a set time and date when all this stuff is going to happen.

And they're reminded to everyone watching the stream, if you want, please do come to the discord.

I'll break you personally myself. We'll ask all your dumb questions. Blah blah blah blah. Love all of you.

Jay, make sure to put my Twitter down there because I won that Internet cloud.

You know, I know I will do that for all of you.

By the way, hop over to Sam Shimunt Shimonian's channel. He did an interview with Craig on the Orthodox view of Salvation and I listened to as much of it as I could and it's actually really, really, really good.

So go and watch it after Jay's finished.

Yeah yeah, yeah, after guys, am I going to be cutting into a lot of people's streams. Is Cotel doing one? I don't know, It's okay. I mean everybody can eventually watched come back and wash. Yeah, yeah, it's not a big deal. How many of people watching live. But I am going to cover because I've got so many notes on on Pelican, I took hundreds of pages of notes, and I also have hundreds of pages of notes, well about a hundred pages of notes on the medieval Heresy Book, which all