There are countless movies made in in concert and consultation with the CIA for many decades. There's a lot of different levels to this, you know. You can look at for example, Ian Fleming himself. The character of Bond was used as a Cold War symbol and as a form of Cold War propaganda, and so when Fleming was writing his stories, he was basing a lot of the Bond novels on real operations that he had been involved in, like Operation a Golden Eye, which was an anti Franco
of anti fascist operation. You have Operation Mincemeat which he was involved in, which they've made films based on that.
So YouTube a X it is at Jay Dyer and Caleb. I don't if you're going to throw all three books up there or just the most recent one. I don't know how Jay has time to do comedy. He's been writing so many damn books and doing so much work in his own educational training. Jay, welcome to the program.
Thank you, doctor Drew. Glad to be here with you.
I seriously, I don't know how you have time for comedy with all the writing and all the training you've been doing. But I'm glad you're here doing all of it. Thank you.
Yeah, well, you know, that was not something that I really thought I would end up doing. But I think the way that media works now, you kind of do your own thing, and then the more of your personality that comes forth, you just kind of roll with it.
And so I ended up kind of falling.
In line with a lot of the comedian podcasts and doing shows with them and enjoying it quite a bit. And so I ended up writing for Sam Hi the last year for his show. So it's been a roller coaster ride. It's a lot of fun, but also like doing you know, the educational stuff. On the other hand as well.
Sam is another bright guy, and that is not lightlifting writing for Sam, I assume. But let's talk about Sam is a really smart guy. Let's talk about Hollywood and the concerns and observations you have as somebody trained in certain kinds of psychology to how people are manipula. Well, let's talk about that first. Are you worried about as I am. I'll turn over my cards. The behavior of crowds.
I feel like we have been a tendency to mob action that emerges periodically in history, whether you start with seventeen ninety France or you know, nineteen thirty two Germany, whatever it is, we're in one again. It feels like and there's lots of true believers flying around engendering chaos. Is this what's happening? Are you concerned about that?
Yes? You know, you say chaos, chaos for chaos, and don't you know it's just chaos. Depends on what you mean, though, I couldn't help me.
I thought you were going to go I thought you were going to go into maximwell smart, so.
I had to go straight Jordan Peters. The word chaos triggers Peterson in my head. But you know, like you actually I studied the French Revolution pretty in depth as well when I was an undergrad and a professor who was a specialist in that. And you're right, I think to make the parallels between mob psychology, which was really kind of I guess a modern thought getting collated, I guess you could say, with socialism and communism and Marxism.
But I just covered a book on my channel a few months ago by a He was an Allied psychologist during the time of World War Two.
His name is Juice Mr.
Lou and he wrote a book about mob psychology many many decades before, you know, doctor Malone talked about massformation, psychosis and this kind of stuff, and he said that he noticed that the socialist movements had really perfected this technique and quite a few chapters in that book that were applicable to Hollywood and the way Hollywood kind of forms attitudes and creates culture. Culture creationists so that we talk about a lot on my channel, but also kind.
Of predicting what social media would do.
And then when you get this sort of melding of fame, internet, fame, social media with the idea of Hollywood and influencers kind of being the new A listers and this kind of stuff, it's a very toxic, dangerous mix. But it's also something that social engineers have studied to perfect in order to kind of control society.
And do you are you seeing evidence of that kind of premeditated activity from Hollywood?
Yeah, you know, one of the things that I focused on in my grad work, and I ended up just kind of putting that work into more of a popular readable book rather than something that was you know, academic that nobody's ever going to read, you know, this master's thesis or anything like that.
It's just going to sit there on a shelf.
I thought, why not take this information and kind of make it accessible and readable. And I think everybody's probably familiar with the way Hollywood uses product placement. You know, that's a classic style of getting people to purchase a product because James Bond was associated with it or.
Something like that.
But it gets a little more nefarious as you get deeper into subliminals. I think everybody's sort of that kind of stuff. But beyond that, there's also war propaganda. There are countless movies made in in concert and consultation with the CIA from many decades. That was something that was done a long time ago, more on the down low, from the nineteen forties, even back to the nineteen twenties. Howard Hughes, you know, he would make war propaganda films.
The OSS would work with Hollywood to make certain screenplays and films, and even a less actors have been famous spies.
All over the place. Yeah, it was in those films, exactly. Absolutely.
Jimmy Stewart was an FBI produced movies. You have people like Julia Child, the famous chef TV chef. She was actually an OSS operative, which people don't know that before she was a chef. But yeah, well you know, in the third book, actually it did a whole chapter just on this because it was so fascinating to see all these people that people didn't know about. Sterling Hayden. He was an operative for the OSS. John Ford made films
in concert with the OSS. And then as you get up into the seventies and eighties, same thing going on there, even to the point of, you know, Ben Affleck recently was touting the CIA and how glad he was to work with him to make films like Argo. You have films like Zero Dark thirty all being made openly with the CIA. So what used to be kind of a secretive, you know, behind closed doors things, is now kind of an.
Open ster hates Sterly holloways Wennie the Pooh, who was Sterly Hayden.
Well, he was one of the A listers back in the forties, very very prominent, kind of you know up there with like Humphrey Boguard and Cary Grant and Carry Grant.
By the way, it was a spy too, he would he would spy for us.
So I want to I want to I want to push back a little bit and say because I've been around all this stuff too for a long time, and whenever somebody's producing anything for media consumption, they just they they get kind of captured by what works. They kind of ab tests a lot, and then what works, they go and they launch into it, and then they builds momentum. So it's rarely, in my experience, premeditated. And the same
thing with the CIA involvement. They get the CIA in and the FBI and and the military and to tell us how it really happens, to give us the dal we want this to be authentic, and then they don't understand that with that authenticity comes a bunch of subliminal messages that the CIA make sure they put into their films. So in a way, they're just useful idiots.
Yeah, I mean, I don't want to be overly, you know, simplistic, as if it's all or nothing, as if everyone's part of a grand conspiracy. I certainly don't believe that. I think there's a lot of different levels to this. But you know, there's a lot of things on record that have come out, things that were declassified the National Archives, things like that that I've covered in the third book. But you know, you can look at, for example, Ian
Fleming himself. What I focused on in my grad work was the way that the character of Bond was used as a Cold War symbol and as a form of Cold War propaganda. And so when Fleming was writing his stories, he was basing a lot of the Bond novels on real operations that he had been involved in, like Operation a Golden Eye, which was an anti Franco of anti fascist operation. You have Operation Mincemeat which he was involved in,
which they've made films based on that. So there's different levels to this, but there's also that level of propaganda which I think most people can kind of connect with, and a lot of times.
That's the big blockbusters.
Usually blockbusters have a decent amount of propaganda inserted into them, but like you said, you know, it's not every director or every person being you know in some some kind of agent or something like that, and so I think.
It's more sparse than that.
But you know, Edward Burneese said that Hollywood is the greatest engine of propaganda the world has ever seen, and he put that in his famous book Propaganda. So they've known this for a long time, and it's just a tool that I think has been utilized and are often, but it's not, you know, something that always is making everybody an agent or something.
No, listen, you look no further than how COVID. You know how the news media and the various outlets were used during COVID, and then then they marched on into the social media world and tried to manipulate that and now this, thank god, some pushback, but it's it all seems like business as usual to me. And they get compliance by various meats, paying people off, mustling them, you know, sort of inserting stuff, you know, without their knowledge into it.
But it be that as it may. I want I want to ask two things, what are the differences amongst the three books? Why did you need to write three? And what am I going to learn from each? And then I want to go back to the Juice Borloo and the Madness of Crowds. So let's talk about your books first.
Yeah, thank you.
So the first book was something that came about that I didn't expect it to be a book.
So I've been writing a lot of essays and.
Excuse me, treatments of film from a more of an academic perspective, or if you take a college class. You'll you'll do what's called a close reading, where you kind of read Dostievsky or somebody like that at different levels and try to decode it and pick out the symbolism and the meaning. And so I sort of started writing movie analyses in the same way. Eventually a publisher reached out and said, hey, you should do it. You should do a book with the style of analysis that you do.
That's really the first one, which mainly focused on the big director, So I focused on Kubrick. I focused on Hitchcock, Spielberg, a lot of the big names and their blockbusters and.
What was good and what was bad. It's not all a critique.
It's just sort of an analysis of the way that symbols are used in film to program us, both on a conscious and in a subconscious level.
So it's a lot of different things.
There's you know, Carl Jung style union analysis comes into it at times, propaganda, the history behind this or that film, and relationship to Ucia consultation or whatever.
So it's a lot of different things.
The second film focused thematically on different topics within a bunch of different films. So I talked about the relationship of Hollywood to organize crime, what's real and what's not real between various mob movies, and how you know, we kind of were sold the picture of the villain being the good guy through a lot of mafia movies, and so now we kind of look to the you know, Tony Soprano is the good guy, and that kind of stuff's a lot of inversion when it comes to morals
and ethics. And then in the third book, because I'd had so many people say over the years, hey, you never did this movie. You never did Christopher Nolan movies, you never did Marvel movies.
I'm not a huge Marvel fan.
But I decided that, well, they're the biggest blockbusters the last twenty years. So if I say the blockbusters are a lot of propaganda, I guess I should cover them. So first eighty pages is Christopher Nolan and Union archetypes
and Marvel analysis. I have a really extensive sixty page, seventy page critique of feminist some in Hollywood and how there's a sort of a presentation that women are all now supposed to be what men typically are, which I think is kind of an intentional, subversive, subversive approach to storytelling. And then I get into fun stuff. There's comedic stuff. There's b movies that we cover that I thought were
kind of funny. And then I get into relationship between CIA in Hollywood and how Hollywood is presented in times in apocalypse films, which I think is fascinating because Hollywood's kind of dying. It's on its own little apocalypse, and then it's turning into this other thing of influencers and you know game basically gaming is kind of taking over unfortunately.
But yeah, so lightlifting, like decoding Dostyevsky. So's there sounds sounds mind evangel just I just trying to read Dostoevsky's and penetrate it as hard enough.
So well, it's not that hard. Fascinating example, I just thought of an example. It's not as bad as.
Suf It's not that hard, well.
At all, challenge.
Yeah, but it all sounds very fascinating and worth. I mean,
it's sort of historically significant. I'm glad you're putting it down for the record because when people do look back at this time, film is one of these things that is you know, I look at it all as just these technologies that come along, and you know, but before there was stage and then stage lights, and then there were then there was amplification, and then this celluloid thing comes along, and then this television thing comes along, and
then vinyl records, and these are all technologies that get exploited in massive ways by people that produce content for these things. What I find really interesting is they always tend to go towards it's it's sort of performers that kind of use it, uh to it to put their material out far and wide, and then it gets hidden or sort of protected under the sheath of art. It's art,
don't you understand? It's art, But it really to me just looks like, yeah, there's artists involved, but it's it's a commercial enterprise to taking advantage of a new technology, and then the computer and then the social media and here we are down the road.
Yeah.
I think the artists are kind of like products, uh and they do, you know, sell what's on.
My bed, but but they hide behind it. Oh, something's in your bed and somebody says something on there, so so I don't know, I don't see.
It out on the bed. It's a dead body back there, so I guess.
Yeah, it's it's uh we'll put you on the Travel channel as some sort of phantom flying around. I can't quite see it. Oh good, all right? Uh and and but I I really think they they use art as a as a veil to do whatever they want to do. So you can't you can't. You know, it's it's it's I'm creating art. It's pretty art. You can't criticize it, all right, you don't understand. No, they're creating a commercial enterprise.
But let me go back to Juice More Loop because I I, and I'm sure you're aware of there's a there's a elaborate sort of cartoon online that goes through all of Juice More Lou's theories. Right, you've seen that? Have you seen that?
No, it's very good, it's very good. Yeah.
Oh well, well, there's somebody that did a whole sort of it's not really juicemr Loo for dummies, but it is sort of that, and it has a whole visual attached to it if somebody sort of sketching things out as his theories are presented. It's very good. It's very good. I recommend it. Just look up go to YouTube, look up Juice mor Loop. But it sent me I guess I was. I already had read Extraordinary Popular Delusions and
the Madness of Crowds. It sent me back to read Lebon's The Crowd again, and then I got downstream to a book called The True Believer, which I find is one of the most fascinating because I think, I think you'll agree with me that these mass formations or whatever you want to call them, have about ten or twenty percent of the crowd that is true believer. They're they're really bought into this stuff, and they're the ones that
propagate some of these things. And this I think the guy was like a it's like an engineer or something. He was not trained in psychology, was not trained in anything. He just wrote down his observations of the behavior of crowds. And man, I think he just nails The True Believer. He just nails it and nails it and nails it. I recommend it most highly. I've read it like three times now. But what are your thoughts on this this
construct and why is it coming up again? And you know, why did why did the left grab on to it so hard? Since the Jacobins give me your thoughts.
Yeah, I think that it's been perfected from the vantage point of social engineering and you know, steering and controlling the crowd. And this is again what Walter Lippmann wrote about when he talked about public opinion.
Coming out of the Tavistock Institute.
He figured out that you could really steer the masses by giving them the impression that, well, if you're not in with the end group with the high percentage of well, the majority of the public supports the war, you don't want to be seen as an outsider. So they were really figuring this stuff out back in the nineteen twenties, and then they perfected that technique with what we have today.
And of course, you know, after the koof as I call it, from twenty to twenty to twenty twenty two, they were using, as Harvard admitted, Harvard style psychological warfare techniques. The Canadian government admitted they were using psyops to really get everybody on board with the mass formation psychosis. So I think that they've applied these techniques to the way that a listers and celebrities had that type of power,
you know, decades ago, and now it's the influencer. Now it's the you know, the social media person that's taking that role on and I think we've seen a lot of phony, fake you know, the social media people that push whatever the establishment wants. Sometimes these people are boosting in the algorithm. So that's where we are now. Is just the new instantiation of the same tricks and tactics.
What's the antidote? What do we have to do here? I feel like raising awareness of it, calling it out, mocking it work small is better than anything. What do we do comedy or into comedy now? Maybe maybe more imitations, more and more impersonations. We just a love life?
Is this Doctor Drew and the love line just probably the best, probably the best love line on right now. We're going to make sex great again, Doctor Drew, You and I together probably going to make it great probably.
Yeah.
I mean, I think ridicule is a really powerful tool for mocking these types of things.
You know, when you go back to.
Ten years ago, one of the reasons that they really had to institute a lot of the censorship online was that the left was becoming so sensitive when when they were being made fun of that they just had to shut down memes, They had to shut down anything that was perceived as mocking them because it's quote hurtful. Of course, again that's very subjective in terms of what's hurtful in regard to free speech, and there's already laws in place for that, so they had to really I think clamp down.
We saw that as well with the COVID mandates and doctor doctor Fauci. It's all gunstantly getting. You know, could take to I am sayad sayatzayats.
And then everybody just made fun of Fauci. There was a remember when they said that he was the sexiest man alive.
I mean, it's like what he's like Actually, they.
Were putting out a poll He's the sexiest man alive, and it's like people just made fun of this, and uh, I think that was a huge, you know, blow to the system. And so that was also why they needed the you know, Twitter files collusion between government and in big tech to shut this stuff down because they know the comedians are the tip of the spear when it comes to moving the Overton window back towards rationality.
Well, they were absent during COVID. That was that was one of the things I kept saying. If you're looking at old the streams around, I was like, where are the comedians. What happened here? Corolla never sin Yeah, I know. I Corolla kept saying, you're a bunch of postings, You're a bunch of shoot what are you doing? If we stopped, we stop following you, this thing would end tomorrow. Uh. And he's been the same ever since and was the
same before, trust me. But it's very interesting, and we live in a time where we have to, you know, because persuasion works, even when you know somebody is hypnotizing you or persuading you or brainwashing you. We have to come up with techniques to kind of, you know, tie ourselves to the mast. We literally have to tie ourselves to the mast, and we have to tie a bunch of people there with us so we are not taken
by the sirens song. And I agree, I think mockery is one of the antidotes, but we got to come up with a bunch of others.
Absolutely.
I mean, I think just presenting you know, logical refutations and critiques, which is something.
That we're big on on my channel.
You know, we do a lot of debate, reviews, do a lot of analysis, and that has a lot of effect. I think it's very powerful with people who haven't lost their mind, who are still rational, who are still sensible. So we really push learning basic logical fallacies to recognize when you're being propagandized, when the left is giving you bad arguments.
It's great if we can just get that seventy percent in the middle. There up up to speed to be amazing. Well, listen, I appreciate what you're doing. I love talking with you. I know dubtas talk to you again. At some point I am immediately subscribing to your YouTube channel because this stuff all fascinates me. That's a at, Jay Dyer. Is there somewhere else?
I go for the YouTube Now, that's my YouTube and then you can find me in the same name everywhere else.
Is it out as a pod also, not that really matters anymore.
It is. It's on iTunes in terms of podcasts, but if you want to get the book, it's on my website Jasonalysis dot com.
Great, Jay, thank you for joining me us. Talk to you soon.
Thank you absolutely