HEATED Twitter Space Debates! Islamic Dilemma & More! -Jay Dyer Call Ins

So man, go ahead. So I don't think any just spols for actually.

Gonna I'll argue, which is ridiculous because Muslims and Methodists today have been popping off.

So obviously if they're not going to come.

Actually debate, which I didn't think they would, then it's open for them. If your quest to speak, I'll bring you up. What's on your mind? Nobody, nobody has any questions comments. None of the Muslims, none of the Methodists would come and debate. What amount of pretty coweries due the student speaking out there? O my gosh, I was looking forward to this too because we had so many people popping off talking smack and none of them will actually co make their arguments.

Finally here we go.

I'mut, So was it you those keeping yapping in my comments?

Yeah, with all your stup your stupid bad arguments.

Stupid bad arguments. What was the bad argument that I said.

Well, you're your Koran says that's confirmed by the prior revelation, and you said the private revelation is all corrupt, so you just owned yourself.

Well, we're what was the initial topic.

What does that have to do with this argument?

Yeah, because you're afraid because I provided you evidence I'm afraid of sources nationalism and tribalism, and then not where you're allowed to enslave women, allowed to rape women?

Say that that never says rape in the text. You're lying. It never says that, you want to.

Where does it say rape in the text?

I know, I know, do around me very well?

You sure?

All right? So let's read it together.

Where does the text a man if I'm reading it to you, if a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rape her and they are discovered, you shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver.

Yeah, does allow you, idiot?

The young woman, he can never get.

That's the penalty. That's a penalty. It's not allowing for you have to pay the dowry. You have to pay the dowry.

So if I reap your daughter, would you be satisfied I pay you fifty shekels? Be honest.

That's not the law. Now that's the law. Then on, So you think that's so you think that's corrupt.

I feel I believe this is disgusting and it's okay.

So your then your koran? So can you can you correct your Kuran? Then is confirmed by a corrupt the text? Correct?

Wait?

I answered your question?

Is the okay?

Is the Koran confirmed by prior revelation?

Yeah, he confirms the initial confirmation of the target.

It confirms the initial confirmation. That's pure gibberish. Does the Okay confirmed by a corrupt the text?

I don't leaving deed eeronomy, no one, no Muslim does what the prior revelation? The prior revelations that engel in the Torah?

This is the Torah, you idiot? Yeah? I know this, but this is correct. Confirm it is confirmed by a corrupted text, you idiot? Yeah, the Quran confirmed by a corrupt detect You just admitted that's corrupted.

Yeah, it is corrupted.

Is conferred by a corruption.

Been a bust tells us.

Is correct, conferred by a corrupted text.

It confirms and revelation of the Torah, which is what you're reading.

Because, idiot, there's a rape in your Bible.

Bro, I don't know why.

You don't have an argument. You just owned yourself. So he just admitted the Torah. He didn't realize he's reading the Torah, and the Torah for him is a corrupt the text. The Koran is confirmed by corrupt the text. This is the stupidity of these people. By the way, it doesn't it say you can rape people. It says that if there is a rape that was confirmed, you have to pay the penalty of a dowry. It's not saying you can rape you idiot. All right, here's next.

Do?

Yeah, what's up?

Listen?

Dude, you're gonna sit here with that argument, and you're not even gonna listen to the fact that bron also says the previous revelations are corrupted.

We don't have that today.

You don't understand how dumb that is. You don't understand how stupid this argument. Yeah, you're a fucking idiot. I'll say exactly, no argument, just calling me a fucking idiot because you can't actually argue the position because you're too stupid. He's low iq hintbred idiots who can't basic propositions.

Here, Isaiah, what's up?

See you see how these people act. Do you understand that it can't be confirmed if the previous thing is corrupted? How could it confirm if it's corrupted? This is so stupid icy. What's up. I'm musical.

Yeah, I'm not a Muslim, But I always wanted to ask you the question for this for years, Like I read Jonathan Page's brother's book, The Language of Creation, and I just want to understand what the church says about taking Genesis as.

Literal, what the first says?

What are you talking about?

Well, just in his brother's book, Matthew PAGEO, he kind of just goes into the symbolism of.

Yeah, but Matthew Paste is not Orthodox.

He's a schizophrenic guy who's kind of out there on the French.

I didn't I didn't know. Well, I didn't know.

I'm not being me and that's just no.

I mean, I'm glad you told me that. I think I thank God you told me that. Plus with Jonathan, but Jonathan Pago takes Genesis as as non minerals.

That's fine. I disagree with that, but that's that's such a position.

So the Orthodox Church doesn't really have anything to say on that or there.

I would argue that it's an inconsistent position because the sixth Ecumentical Council says that you cannot say that death existed prior to Adam's fault.

So I think it's Oh yeah, they argue, they argue that, so that means that would extend to like the Christians, I believe in evolution.

What right.

There? But I don't think they're intentionally being heretics. But I think you appreciate your question.

What's up?

Yeah?

Did you just.

Can you hear me?

Did you just say that you're allowed to rape as long as you pear dowry to.

The to the to the father that I say you're allowed? Are you that stupid? Did I say that you just said that.

I was just.

Anybody?

The brother provided evidence.

I said, it's a penalty under law fare if you if you engage in that action, the penalty is you have to pay the dowry and you're liable to marry the woman. So it's a penalty. It's a legal penal sanction against it. It's not saying you can rape.

You and what happens to the woman?

Does she marry him?

Yes?

According to the oh so you marry the the rapists if he.

If these are the laws of warfare, which which negate the possibility of acting in a brutal way. So it's a it's actually dissuading you from committing rape.

It's not saying you can commit rape, you idiot.

Yeah, but it's a penalty, penalty.

Thank you for admitting it's a penalty, a penalty. You's admitted it's a penalty, you idiot.

Thank you when I was trying penalty.

So it's not saying you can do it.

Married the reapist is crazy.

You just admitted it's a penalty, you dummy. So that you're lying about what I said, it proves you're lying about what I both so would you about what I said? So you're so hold on is does the Koran based on the to then? Is it confirmed by the before you jump? You can't answer them. You can't answer the dilemma, can't you know?

But I'm just saying as many pass you that says you can read.

No, it does idea.

The Book of Isaiah says you had the Book of Zachar do what you dummy.

You just admitted it's a penalty. So it's not saying you can't penalty.

It doesn't make sense because you marry the reapist.

It's a penalty, Yes, it does. So at world, if you violated, would you not to bury the if in the ancient if not the world, we don't live in the intro. I just need to pay you fifty seconds. Dude, stop talking. It's a penalty that means you can't do it. It's a it's an act. It dissuades you from doing it. Do you know a dowry dowry.

Flesh and drink his blood.

You become stupid.

No, you're demonically possessed because you just it's Sunday drink. You just admit it that you're a blaspheamer. You just admitted that the Koran is confirmed by a corrupt detext So you just undid your whole brother. You just said that, you.

Dude.

If it's a penalty, then you can't do it, you dummy. You said it's a penalty, Well, who does she marry you? The girl? The girl marries the rapist.

That's crazy, bro, I know.

You're not crazy. It's the ancient world, dummy, And you just admitted that you lied because you said I said you could do it. But then you said it's a penalty. Well, a penalty is a legal dissuaiter. It's not doing it. It's not saying you can do it, you idiot. These are the stupidest people on the planet. In the ancient world, if you violated a woman, she was no longer able to be married off, and thus you had to pay a massive amount of money. A dowry is not a

All these calls on the.

Get requests to speak, I'll bring you up. We've already had two Muslims refute themselves out of.

Their own mouths.

And you notice that neither of them wants to talk about the By the way, they want to get to talk about morals. Allah is multiple times in the Kuran said to be the greatest of deceivers.

So wait a minute.

If Allah is the greatest of deceivers, then their God is actually the devil, and they have no basis for this moral posture. If you come up and talk about theistic evolution, I'm done. I'm not talking with you about that. I'm started talking to you about that.

Hey, Jake, can know if in the Quran you could basically have as many sex concubines as your right hand possesses, isn't that literally in the Koran?

I don't know where they I mean, because they then they say, nowadays it's four. So I have no idea where the different legal thick rulings come from. It's all over the place. I mean, they've got you know, Arab chieks with countless wives and concubines, but now there's only four. So who knows.

Because based on what I know is that, yeah, legally they could have four wives, but then they could have endless byproduct of war sex concubines.

Well, that's what Deuteronomy is actually trying to mitigate, is that tendency. So the laws are mitigating the thing that you're talking about. And it's not saying that you can rape people. It's saying that you will pay heavy fines if you engage in that activity exactly.

And from an Islamic perspective, they have a cart blanche to do the thing.

Yeah, so they're saying, yeah, they're saying it's morally reprehensible when all is the greatest of deceivers and allows them to have the Everything they're saying is reprehensible.

Good point, it's crazy, man, anyway, That's all I want to say, right point.

Appreciate the mkg uh guys hit requests to speak. You're welcome to come up if you disagree, I want one of the Musclims to actually, you notice we've never had a Muslim attempt to address except for doctor Khalil is like the only one, the one with a PhD, actually attempt to address the islam As dilemma because every time they argue that the Torah has corrupt, they turned around and say that the Koran is confirmed by the Torah, which is so stupid. Oh you mean it's confirmed by

Bring you up.

I love the low iq muscles. There are some of the funnest people. They By the way, this is good because it's gonna be clipped. I hope the clippers have fun with this one.

And pay attention and show the part where they're dishonest. If you guys clip this, whether JDA or dire Central or whoever Menesius, whoever clips, because both of those guys literally contradict to themselves. He says the Quran is confirmed by the Torah, and then he says the Torre's corrupt. So and then the other guy says, you literally say that you can rape, you're supposed to rape. And then

It requests to speak. We don't have to talk about Islam.

If you want to defend Protestantism, if those idiot methodists are here, if you want to come to Finitane defend your stupid taking game methodis sect feel free to come make your arguments.

I don't think they're going to come. The people just love to talk, smack on and then we'll cut debate and then when they come to date.

They said Thomas Crop ever sit on the hut bay and their debating with ad i q and Red.

Literally and acting a Muslim trying to have it yep, what's up?

Yep, church history.

But I would consider myself solo script toward because it seems like like your side will say we're capful.

You're you're not super understood.

Yeah, I will say that for sure. But but I'm just saying that your side seems like they will say that they depend on divine revelation in the end, and for me, I depend on the Holy Spirit. So I just kind of don't see the big distinction there.

Okay, Well, how do we know it's given that every sect out there claims that are left by the Holy Spirit, how would we decide between all the different claims of whose web of the Spirit?

I don't know, yeah, but that but I feel like we're in the same position if you say his divine revelation.

I'm asking you, since that exists everybody having different claims of being led by the Spirit, what's the public objective thing that we could appeal to that would decide between all the different groups?

You tell me the public objective? Oh, I see, I get what you're saying. You're saying, since we can appeal to the church.

And do you recognize that there are every sect out there says their life by the Holy Spirit? Right?

No?

And I think it's a problem too. I understand it's a problem. That's why you got all these Mormons in Okay, So we would well.

Be the thing that is the arbiter between all these different groups.

It would it would have to be a church, it really would.

So well, good news turns out there's a church that has taught the same thing from the first thousand years to now. Okay, so I'll give what you said, because everybody's gonna say every heretic says they're like by the way spirit, all of them. Okay, Well, then we're gonna need some objective arbiter.

Uh that is some way.

Well, it turns out we can go find out what the church of the first thousand years taught. By the way, John, you missed the muscles that was hilarious to retard Muslims. Thomas, what's a I'm sorry.

So I'm curious as to the distinction in the Trinity when it comes to orthodox versus Protestantism.

Okay, I mean there's a lot of disinctions and the Trinity. So what do you mean?

I guess then I need to come back with a better question.

Well, no, it's a fine question. But what exactly I mean?

Are you talk about philioquay, the essenceyentri distinction, nature, person, eternal generation, what are you talking about?

I don't know.

I'm inquiring Orthodoxy and I was raised Protestant. So I'm just trying to figure out at least key distinctions that would absolutely rule one out over the other.

Okay, well, the Second Ecumenical Council teaches that the Father is the sole fount cause an arca. That means that we believe in monarchical s rinitarianism, and that means that his unique property of being the fount, the cause, and the source cannot be shared by another person like the son, because that would be to give away what's called his

So there you go. All of Protestanism canceled out. Right there.

About another one, All Protestanism is canceled out because they teach a created grace just like the Roman Catholic Church, and the Orthodox teaching is that we participate in the uncreated grace through the sacraments.

Okay, that's a good place to start, thank you.

Most Protestants, by the way, teach Classical Protestants teach a form of equalitarian trinitarian relations or equalitarianism in the Trinity, which is not the traditional view because that again compromises the Father as the soul fount source cause nark and that is one percent clear a stay of the Cavadocian teaching, and that's the teaching of the Second Ethnical Council. So if you all want to be Protestants and reject the Second Medical Council, that's up to you.

Who's next, and Dialogue ever wants to speak O bring you up.

Topics are anything to do with Islam, anything to do with the papers, anything to do with Protestantism, anything to do with evangelicalism.

If you have other questions, feel free. I know, Floridian, I think you had some.

I think she wanted to try to talk about last night, but I couldn't get to you or we couldn't get a good connection.

So Floridian, if you'd like to hop up, feel free.

It's also open to any other topics, geopolitics, conspiracy, history, cults, gnosticism, black heuber, Israelites, fever roots, Zionism, Messianic Judaism. Any of these topics are open fair game today, just sitting request to speaking off pop By the way, I just passed white sands in Mexico in the middle of nowhere's pretty wild.

People bring their snowboards and they slid down the dunes, which I did not know.

Retro, what's up, man, do those two first Muslims were cold? I love that because it only took like literally three minutes. That's to contradict each other. What's up retro?

Hey, I've been watching videos for a while and I just had a question out of curiosity. You've mentioned that the papacy doesn't solve the issue of solo scripture, because it just moves the problem back a step, because now you have to interpret all the writings of popes and whatnot. How would that be different from say, the writings of the church fathers and the councils and interpreting those.

It's not different, That's the point.

The point is that everybody's in the same boat, and so when a Roman Catholic tries to say that the papacy will give you individual certitude about the doctrines, that's the point is that it doesn't just moves upon the back a step.

So the point is that we're all in the same boat.

So we're not going to solve it by just saying, well, that guy solves it, or this thing solves it. The thing that solves it is ultimately, at the end of the day going to be the Holy Spirit.

And everybody actually says that.

Even Roman Catholics admit that individual Ruman Catholics are guided by the wisdom and the lightment of the Holy Spirit. So that's the admission that they have as well. Then the question isn't whether the papacy can give you certitude. The question is which church is the same structure and functionality of the first millennium church?

Perfect that makes sense.

Thank you.

That's a great question that one comes up a lot.

So appreciate that. It's always worth stating that. Robert Castle subject, go ahead, Robert.

Ta can you hear me?

Yes, sir, Hey, So you said you said you're driving through the middle of nowhere in New Mexico, right, I had a funny anecdote. I'm actually from the middle of nowhere in New Mexico, and I grew up about twenty minutes away from Zoro Ranch, and my my buddy in cub Scouts when I was a kid, his dad was actually the ranch manager. And so I went to a Zoro ranch when I was like thirteen years old.

Oh wow, And what was it open to the public? What was it at that time? No, it was it was definitely not open.

That was what was weird about the experience was I mean, I didn't know anything about Epstein at the time.

I was a kid, you know. But we went out there and.

It's just like out in the middle of the desert in the Galastdale base and just like off of Highway forty one, and the entrance had these like giant rocks at the front, and you know, it had this like super long driveway. But we went there and I just like spent the night with my friend, just one night, and we pulled up and it was like this fake It was like a movie set, like all this new construction and the buildings were painted like different primary colors,

Fuck is like, what is this place?

Like like a fake?

It's like a fake place. But then it wasn't. Like it was like seven years later I found out all this stuff about where I actually was. But anyway, that's

I was curious to what you thought about what he had been.

I mean, Jeffery put money into everything. He was interested in email, he was interested in stocks. So does that mean that, oh, I can't be involved in email because Jeffrey Epstein was involved in it.

So email is an Epstein operation. I mean that's retarded.

Yeah, I mean he doesn't seem to be.

He doesn't seem to be saying that that people shouldn't be involved.

I've and that's.

What I don't understand what you mean Blackfield about what I mean again, If'ting threw money at everything, it makes sense that he would throw money at every emerging tech, which is what he did, biotech, commute computers, AI, bitcoin, crypto. So like it's just just such a boat here argument that oh he had money in pitpoint. Therefore big Point is an Epstein operation. Well he doesn't.

That's why I was asking if you had seen what Mark Goodwin said, because he doesn't seem to I don't know who that is.

He's a he's a.

Former editor of Bitcoin magazine, and he's a he he has articles released on Unlimited Hangout, which is Whitney Webb's website.

But okay, but Whitney Webb.

I now like Whitney Webb generally, but also if you watch Bitcoin Mechanics reputation of Whitney Webb, he shows that she has no idea about the technology. And so Whitney's whole thing is just like, well, BlackRock's buying bitcoin. The bitcoin's now compromised. But the problem is that you can't stop It's like you can't stop people from buying these things. It's like saying that I'm not gonna buy gold because the roth Child's own gold.

Well yeah, but like that's there's no way around that.

Like you can't if it's in the open market, you're not gonna be able to stop people from buying things.

But just because the roth Child's own gold.

It doesn't mean that, Oh well, I guess gold I'm gonna hold dollars because the roth Child's own gold. It's just, it's all this stuff is super just low tier dumb arguments. I'm not saying you, but I'm saying the people that will say, I mean, I'm not I like bitcoin over gold, but I'm saying gold is better than Fiat. But imagine saying, well, I'm not gonna buy Fiat because the roth Child's own Fiat. The Queen of England has a bunch of gold. So

What's something, hey, Jay?

Another thing I was thinking regarding the Muslim very rigid, simplest stig myopic view they seem to have, and just looking at Islamic history, they seem to have this very abominable version of symphonia.

They don't have this.

Crime sin distinction, at least not in the way Christianity does. So everything is broad brushed, everything is relative. Things are not categorically placed in the way Christianity places, you know, civic rights, spiritual rights, so apostasy, for example, like all the Muslim clerics would still have to hold that if in an Islamic state, a Muslim born person converts to Christianity, if the state is Muslim, they should execute that person.

If that's not true, Well, there's a lot of different legislations for different situations. So it more so depends on Like, no, if you wanted to leave the Christian faith, one is free to do that. You can't let the church says up, I mean, you might get excommunicated. More So, what becomes a civil penalty is when you become a civil disturbance.

And so if you begin to, for example.

Teach some new heretical sect and people have to understand that because because religion was an intimate part of the world in the ancient world and in the medieval world. It was also thus a revolutionary force if you were a sectarian. And so one of the reasons that the princes had laws against these kinds of heretical sex is that it could create a social revolution, as actually many

Undo you know, the different kingdoms.

So that's why there are at times legal civil penalties for heresy.

And I think that makes it actually makes.

Perfect exactly and that's a proper use of symphonia.

But they don't have that like it's still merger.

They don't have those distinctions. They think of it like God wants you to die right now.

Yeah, it's there.

There's no semblance of you know, distinction of crime versus sin. You know, a crime is a sin, but a sin is not a crime. And I think Joel Webbin made a good point of that on one of his podcast episodes. But it's just it's really fascinating that from from my point vantage point when I see even from the laity of the Muslims, that the way they interact with religious and the theological issues, it's very much like CNN Fox

It's yeah, because most of them are ad i Q people and it's in bred retard to religion literal I mean, not being me, and that's just the facts.

So what do you expect.

I mean, the whole religion is the mindset of an Arab slave owner, master slave. I mean it's like you're all a slave, so of course they're going to believe that their deity is an Arab slave owner.

I mean that's essentially what the deity is.

So yeah, it's it's a perfect religion for low IQ desert dwelling people who think that Satan dwells in a rock wall that you can throw a rock side. I mean it's retarded, dude, they believe that the double farts. I mean, like it's just crazy. I mean, beople to have this like really deep mystical meaning, it's a retarded religion. Man, it's a dumb cult, and cults always have these really dumb positions. Fuck who's next?

Hoping for him?

We'll keep going as long as we have the Internet. This is a really fascinating drive. In the middle of nowhere in New Mexico. We just saw a big I guess it looks like a Catholic shrine. I'm not sure what it was. He's not question anything to do with Protestanism is Bob church history, papal city, evangelical holds heber is or lights heber roots, sam.

H go to Sam and then to Nico.

Difficult, okay. A guy a few minutes ago asked about uh, yeah, can.

You one at a time? Samuel de Nico?

Yeah, okay.

A guy a few minutes ago asked about the difference between Trinitarian or Protestant trinitarianism versus Orthodox trinitarianism, and you said they have like a kind of an equality type of I don't know if that's who gets described the kind of co equal, co eternal type. I guess like shorthand of it, versus you said, orthodoxis menorah like.

King, monarchic goal pnitarianism.

Thank you.

So how how does how does how do those differ specifically? And how does that avoid any issue of like one being like subservient of the other and the Godhead.

So I'm gonna go and tell you to go watch all the lectures and interviews that we don't talk to boat Brins depth and I'm not going to repeat twenty hours of podcasting lectures right here, Nico.

What's up?

Hey, Jay? I wanted to ask something. You know in Islam?

Can you hear me?

Yes?

So, in Islam they promised to believers that once you go to heaven, if you make it to heaven, your promise for example, for men, your promise you know like con combines and women and eternal you know, like it's like headonistic part dice.

The humans. They're like savage defeat tal giant women.

It's weird.

Yes, So how can a person be moral if if your highest point in life is to make it to a hedonistic heaven, how can you be moral and you know, like being.

I mean they're just yeah, I get it right, but they're just gonna say moral is whatever all our worlds and which I really think it's system.

But olepos what's up, Hey.

Jay, I wanted to ask you.

In Greek, the word for heaven is and paradise. Is there a difference between those two. Is Paradise like a state and heaven is like a sort of a place?

Well, I mean, I think in Orthodox theology, Paradise is Eden. That's where Adam and e where it's where Enoch and Elijah were translated or translated to. And so it's different than having proper, which is the third heavens, which is God's thrown So there's.

A distinction there.

Okay, perfect, thank you?

Sure.

Uh, let's see who's next.

M It's me, Can you hear me?

Yeah?

So I have a question because the bishop in Poland I can make you make a statement that we should go to synagogue and no in the anniversary of the Pope.

JP two going there.

So questions should we go and pray in synagog?

Oh? The ancient canon for vision bring and senagogue sending Worthodox speciallymen all inside to go to the synagogue. Yeah, to visit.

Oh that's sad, that's terrible. No, that's ridiculous.

Robert, what's up, Roberto? Hello?

Hello, I just wanted to follow up on what the previous Carla was asking about Heaven and Eden, just contrasting, what what's the Orthodox theological view of Abraham's Bosom when compared to Eden?

Because I'm Roman.

Yeah, Abraham's Bosom was a place in eighties, so it's where the righteous the Old Testament resided prior prior to Christ. Harrowing.

So with that is is that way infants went historically before Christ? In the Orthodox view?

Possibly there is some speculation, but I don't know that we have a heart, okay, like we know for sure position okay.

And then so for us, I was trying to read more about the original sin versus ancestral sin distinction in the Orthodox versus the Catholic view. So why is it in the Orthodox view that people went to Abraham's bosom because people didn't triumph over because Christ hadn't triumphed over death yet in the Orthodox view, is that is that.

Why people went to Abraham's Bosom?

Yes, yeah, right, okay?

So for us Enoch and Lies, we don't have a position whether they went to Eden or Heaven or to Abraham's Bosom. What sweat does that come from? In the Orthodox view? Where can I read about that? That Enoch and Lies went to Eden.

Because they haven't died yet, so they were translated to Paradise, and they have not died yet. They wouldn't be in Heaven, they would be in Paradise. So then and that's why we would say that, like in the Book of Revelation, and it appears that they do come back to be martyr.

And then how does that figure with Moses, Like how does that work with Moses and Elias coming back at the trans and Elias coming back at the transfiguration. So does Moses get taken from Abraham's Bosom and then Elias from Eden for the transfigurations?

Possibly? Possibly?

Okay, okay, well hold on, so because here he's I'm took about the Book of Revelation where.

It's it's isn't a nich and Elijah?

So yeah, you're right about Revelation.

Yeah, that's right. And that's because that's because there are the only two people who didn't undergo death, but Moses did undergo death, and so Moses will be resurrected like everybody else in the resurrection.

Yeah, because it always was sort of interesting because in the Transfiguration in the Gospels, Moses is there, but I was trying to figure out where he's actually where God's bringing him from.

In the Gospel.

I think I think that most is right. So they're in Hades, in the in the in the realm of the righteous, right.

In Yeah, okay, sorry, you're cutting it, thank you?

Yes, So if anything else so then Abraham, yes, sorry, and then Abraham's bosom for the Orthodox is empty at the moment. I think it's the same for Catholics as well.

Yeah, you're supposed to believe in the uh, you know, descent into Hades, although in Roman Catholic theology, in my estimation, it's really unclear what the point of that is or in other words, it doesn't have much significance in Catholic theology, like it doesn't Orthomoz. Why is that?

Why Why do you say, because I've heard about.

Because Eastern theology, Because Eastern theology stressed and emphasized the cosmic scope of christ redemption, and after Saint Maximus and the fact that all of reality is going to be transfigured, and after the Middle Ages in the Latin West, after a quietness and Anselm and Augustine, Latin theology does not hold to any significance for the universe for Christ assuming universal human nature?

Okay?

And is there anywhere I can read about that that comparison? I don't want to waste your time. When can I read about that? That comparison?

I wrote an essay?

I wrote an I wrote an essay on that, but you could read just the Cosmic h Cosmic Mystery of Jesus Christ by Saint Maximus.

Okay, thank you very much.

Yeah, that was Yeah, those great questions. I appreciate, though, haven't they haven't delft into that topic in a long time.

Uh.

So, I'm in the I didn't realize it's mountainous up here in northern New Mexico, so it's actually a totally different climate than where I was. So I don't know how long the self connection will last here, but feel we'll try to continue as long as we can.

Shout out to John, what's up John.

In the chat, Shout out to slow Boys, Shout out to Jay Dyer Archive, Shout out to Nevsky, all our buddies in the chat. Props to all of you guys that are churning out the clips. Really appreciate that the request to speak. I'll bring you up while we still have a little bit of a signal. I doubt it will last much longer. I just passed Alan Migordo and White Sands Air Force Base, so I did get in k ultra reprogrammed by the aliens at Roswell's.

We were only about an hour from Roswell and so they have programmed me.

I'm a chosen Pleadian and the Blue Avians are the real good Aliens and the chicken headed Aliens with the bad guys.

What's up aiden.

Question?

Do it like Old Testament relations? I guess in a way. So this is like a Protestant hypothetical question. Like they have their invisible Church doctrine stuff. For example, they can make what if they made an argument of in the Old Testament, like non descendants of Abraham being faithful and trying to use that to justify the invisible Church doctrine? How would you attack that argument? I'm confused.

How is this at all? What is this supposed to prove?

It?

Yeah?

Yeah, what was the thinking about hypothetical of a Protestant trying to justify the invisible Church based off of in the Old Testament?

There being okay? But Hebrews eleventh.

Hebrews eleven says they're part of the same mystical body as we are, So would I would actually prove our position not the invisible Church. But I mean, in other words, the Church has always been visible. And just because the Church of the Old Testament, and by the way, it's called the Ecclesia of the Old Testament, Book of Hebrews, the Church and the Wilderness, just because it had uh, gentile converts. I mean, Abraham was a gentle convert, so

Just like it is said, all right, thank you, Jay, I appreciate it. I'm I'm just used to very low tier arguments of like people right and like Satanic warshippers. Yeah, appreciate it.

Yeah, I just I think I think I get where you're where they're going with that, But actually it undermines the argument because Yeah, that's why I think even in the Old.

Testament, it's still a single visible society. Yeah, it's not a thousand different there's not a thousand off Israels.

Right, Yeah, I was thinking off the original basis of Job. But Job was a descendant from I can't I'm horrible pronouncing, but he was.

Yeah. But even so, like in in Accodus, it says that many of the Egyptians had converted and left with the Israelites. So those are all uh Israelites as well. They're converts. So the Old Testament religion did accept converts. But that how would that prove an invisible church?

I guess what the what they would typically say is, oh, this is an example of you don't have to be part of the visible body or something like that.

You don't have to but they were part of the they were part of it. They were though, but they were.

So I'm just thinking of what loutsier type of response.

It says that they left Egypt with the Israelites, so they were part of it there.

Thank you, Jay, I appreciate it.

That's a great question. I'm trying to think of other I mean Joe, but there's some scholars debate whether Joe's actually a Jewish guy or a gentile guy. I mean again, either way, it doesn't really matter. Because Paul argues that it was always the case that the only people who are true Israelites are the ones who love God from their heart. And that's whether you're Noah or Adam or Abraham or Moses or anybody today. That's the only people

Yeah, I'm trying to.

I mean, the Old Testament was a visible society of a mixed multitude of believers and unbelievers, and so that would actually again undermine an attempt at an invisible church doctrine, because the all invisible church doctrine came about because the protests are formed how to figure out, well, how can we have true believers amongst divided different sects in group, And that's where you get in a visible church.

So really undercuts it if they try to go to the Old Testament sage. What's up, dude, I'm your.

Good question.

What is your opinion on the genesis?

Gap to here?

Real quick?

I mean, I tend to believe in a young Earth. So what do you mean do you talk at the day age theory? Are you talking about the genealogy.

The genealogy or in general, what is Eastern Orthodox view of the genesis gap.

Well, I mean a lot of modern Orthodox believe in a theistic evolution. I don't, and the Byzantine calendar supports my view. So the traditional Orthodoxy all whatever, All right, cool,

They just melt down and lose their minds. And to me, it's like, like, how these people are so dogmatic and so certain? Why are they have such a hard thought answering like basic questions.

Okay, here we go Muslims again. What's up, dude? I'm h.

Go ahead.

Are you gonna say something? Muslim?

Dude?

What's up? H?

Are you gonna talk or not?

Dude on you? That's true, That's true.

Jim Bob's been killing it with these evolution guys.

Are you Muslim or Orthodox?

I'm Orthodox?

I am I'm not a Muslim, but I thought you're Muslim.

I could I could barely no that.

Oh yeah, yeah, congratulations on your on your generational run.

You've been killing it.

Thanks dude.

Yeah, this Apollo guy real quick?

Oh yeah, I am sorry about that.

Yeah, I I met I Muslim, i' Muslim? What is what is going on? I'm marrying myself twice?

I don't know?

Uh, Apollo the guy that interview You've had a gelical guy that interviewed it here are you talking about? I think he had a bad actually dropped off.

I don't know what ch Apollo guy he's talking about? What's up?

Man? Uh?

Sage? If you can connect?

It's weird. We're up here in the middle of nowhere and I have like full bars, which I did not expect up here or there? Sage? Are you there?

Can you connect?

All right?

It's open for him. We're gonna go to some people that we haven't gone to yet. If you've not come up, you have a question and challenge and comment and debate. You disagree, you go to the headline for debating Protestanism, Islam, Papism, church history and cults, sex, narcissism, libertarianism, feminism, Zionism, keeper roots, black heeper, Israel lies. Anybody who has any question related you can stop that. You're welcome to come up. You don't have to day, You're welcome to if you want to.

Come on?

Now we're going and tell my internet cell service runs out here.

Hit request to speak. You go to the head of the line. Come on, now, I know somebody's got something that.

We got a.

Or sixty people. Aiden, what's up? Aiden, I'm mute, And then we go to Alexander. Go ahead. Uh.

Yeah.

So I was having a discussion with one of my friends and we got into the topic of like church structure and like how the church like formed in like over time, and so we kind of pretty much the conversation came boiling down to at like nice one. He was like contending that the church fundamentally like changed in structure, and so I was like wondering, like, uh, how do you or like what books would you recommend to.

Like read up on that, and like how would it happen?

I mean, uh, so go.

Find Perry Robinson's talk on YouTube on Apostolic succession and he shows that the New Testament is SOLF teaches absolute succession. To look at the way Paul speaks to Timothy in the Letters to Timothy. He says, I laid hands on you, Timothy. I appointed you at Ephesus. No one else is appointed. And you also after after you yourself lay hands on good men, because the Holy Spirit is transferred in the laying out of hands.

And uh.

The Apistolic fathers also teach the exact same doctrine of epistolic succession. Also, Alex Soren did a recent two hour live stream on episodic succession as well. So I would say those are some of the best resources right there, Alexander, what's up, dude, I'm mean Alexander.

Then we'll go to Jacob.

Hi are you good at can you hear me?

Yes?

I can hear you?

Go ahead, all right, yeah, speaking from sure, it's Steve been a very young just cat my crystal the space inside to journey. Like your topic in discuss religion is quite I guess most of the topic I've been talked about around the Santas, the major religion on the likes and religions.

It's hard to understand you what's your question?

Yeah, it is.

Different from this.

Well hello, Okay, I.

Can't understand what you're saying. Man, I'm sorry, Jacob, what's up Jacob on you?

Then we'll go to through.

Hello, Yeah, what's a dog?

So sorry if you get this question a lot.

But I'm a Baptist who's looking into Orthodoxy and when the Bible talks about us being adopted is sons of God. And like you know, the Holy Spirit being a seal that sounds like very like permanent language that like you can't lose. So like, how does U Orthodox? Like how do Eastern?

Well, I mean the very the very language that you used in Hebrew six says if you taste of the heavenly gifts and partakers of the Holy Spirit, if you if you turn away, there's no salvation for you. So the very language and sacramental graces that you mentioned are mentioned in Hebrews six.

Okay, I say that makes sense.

All right, thank you.

Oh it's a great question. I mean, yeah, you know, he who perseveres to the end will be saved. Jacob, what's up?

I mean, even Jacob Jacob, I'm you.

Go ahead. Uh sorry I lost her there for a second, Tariq, I'm you sorry, I'm mute.

Yeah, I just wanted to say, from everything so far, like from what I've heard from you guys, it looks like the Americans are quite held bent upon trying to prove Islam wrong and something fake was Yeah, yeahs with America.

It has to do with Orthodox Christianity.

Well, I take that you've got an American accent, so I take you have some sort of Yeah.

But what does that have to do with the arguments against a loan that we made.

No, because obviously the tightest subject here is Protestant is an Islam impact No, no, no, I'm just presuming on that part, you know, just instead of actually actually just you know, taking on board that you know, you've got a BIB, you've got a Bible out the basically regardless of which one it's an edited book. You've got things which are wrong, and what's come to actually clarify what is wrong.

How does the Quran? How does the Quran say that prior revelation confirms the Quran? If the prior revelation is corrupted.

Yeah, I'll explain this to you. So basically, in the Quran, it's actually verifies that even though that the the Jews and the Romans put Jesus on the cross, but they did not crucify him, but it was made to appear as such. So before this, what the us.

Now we know you're so basically before this, I'm putting the answer of the objection.

Yeah, so sins, Sorry, you're breaking up like babies. Hear what you're saying?

H on the prior Christians corrupted?

Yeah, just say that once again, because I never heard what you said completely.

The Quran says in multiple verses that prior revelation and the Torah confirmed the teaching of the Qur'an. How is that the case if the prior revelation is corrupted?

Because what that what the same Quran actually teaches that it's not it's not corrupted like complete corruption, But.

How did it confirm it if it's corrupted? So if it's half corrupted, how can it confirm it? How do we know what's corrupted not corrupt?

Well, how it confirms it? Because whatever it says, he here met.

In my mouth?

Sorry, is it half corrupted? How could it confirm it if it's corrupted?

Yeah, it confirms that. It confirms with information.

Your book is confirmed by a corrupted text.

The books not confirming.

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.

Your your point works in my mouth? Now, Okay.

It says that multiple tizes as the Torah confirms the Torah and the prophets, the teaching of Moses confirmed.

What is then the Quran?

And then you guys are so stupid that you sit here for hours arguing that it's all corrupted.

Okay, so then it doesn't confirm the Koran. Idiot Jacob, what's up? Yep? Okay?

The god of Judaism and the I guess the attributes from the cabalistic tree of life?

What about it?

Yes?

So I wanted to know if like other Hebrew cults, like that guy you debated, Captain uh, I can't even think of his name.

He's a Hebrew is a light gay?

Yeah? Like would his God also be the same thing, like.

You would have a cabalistic tree of life attributes and stuff.

No, I don't think he knows anything about Kabala. He's just a Unitarian, so I don't I don't know where he derives his I mean, that's just a super low IQ cult. I don't think they think. They don't even think it out that far.

Are you there?

All right?

Well, we'll try as long as we can. But the cell service as.

It might be done now as soon, so if you have any last objections, questions, comments, this is probably the last chance to get it in today.

We're in the mountains here, so I cut out.

That's a no.

I don't think the Hebrew Israelites have any really developed theology. Is just kind of each individual Black Hebrew is a like cult leader makes it up as he goes. So who's next?

Supercoasters KI can bring you up MKG.

Is it not a question? Well, not exactly, but I just want to know if you ever get the time to just check the DM I sent you if it has any merit. I know it's it's a it might be.

I'll check it out. Appreciate that acacious. What's up?

Yeah, it's going on, brother, I just kind of joined in, so I was just trying to get some understanding. So basically, you're saying that the Abrahamer religions are fake? And yeah, is that what you're saying?

There is no common Abrahamic religion. There's only Orthodox Christianity. That's the only one. Islam and Judaism or not Abrahamic religions.

Okay, I've always interested in that ways, I guess I'm dismiss understood.

So are you?

So you're saying you're an Orthodox Christian?

Yeah, okay, I got So what what is your take? Did you want to discuss that?

Yeah?

So, what are the contemporaries of the time of Jesus being alive to prove that he was real?

Well?

Why is that the way that we proved something? That's the case.

I mean, there's all kinds of things in history that don't have contemporary writers like Plato.

I mean, it was Plato fake.

Too, I don't.

I mean, I know who Plato is, but I'm pretty sure Socrates or somebody I think it is Socrates.

Yeah, but it has writings to him or well, Socrates didn't write anything, so you don't know what you're talking about the earliest manuscript of Plato's eleven eleven hundred eighty.

Okay, well, I mean so, for example, like the Roman Empire, they documented a lot of things. They documented basically every time their soldier steps outside the gate, or new inventions or what's going on in politics, and they never the Romans or even the Library of Alexandria, no scholar, no writers ever wrote about this miraculous jew walking on water people bringing them back from the dead. They would do that. I mean, who wouldn't do that?

Right?

Well, no, if they believed it was old Jewish superstition, why would they they didn't believe it, why would they write about it. By the way, this as an argument from silence anyway, what is it supposed to prove.

I'm just asking you questions. I'm not trying to get an argument or fight.

I don't care if you're making arguments.

I'm just saying that that is an argument that Jesus we don't know that he existed, because you understand that there's way more attestation to the New Testament than there is to Plato. So I'm on better grounds believing in the New Testament. There's over five thousand manuscripts from the first three centuries that attest to the existence of Christ, the veracity of the New Testament, And you're on much shake to your grounds with anything else.

You don't even know that Socrates didn't write anything.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm not a historian of that era at all.

I just.

One to hear your take on it.

Well, why why would why should we believe? Should we believe Roman pagan emperor, should believe Marcus Aurelius?

Yeah, I mean people actually wrote letters, I have documented his existence.

Why does it the New Testament? If there's thousands of New Testament documents, why is that not an argument for the existence of Christ on the same basis as people talking about Marcus Aurelius.

Well, I mean the whole book, the whole Bible was written by Jews. That and so I mean the fact that the fact that that's the whole point of wanting to have contemporaries.

That's the fallacy.

So just because the Bible is written by a Jewish author, what is that to do with whether it's true false?

That's a genetic Fauls.

Yeah, yeah, I know what I'm what I'm trying to say is like these are like his followers.

But we don't know anything outside of.

That.

So if you that's like saying, like you, So, if you're walking around with a bunch of boys and you're teaching them about your your ideology.

Yeah, again you're ignorant. I don't know what you're talking about. So I can give you Josephus talks about the followers of Christ.

Uh.

The Talmud talks about the followers of Christ and rejects them and says that they are the menim and that they're cursed.

So there you go.

There's ancient historical attestations outside of the Bible. You don't coming.

But again, you missed the argument I was making.

Why should we believe Marcus Aurelius' text prove his existence but the other texts don't prove jesus consistance?

Which text are you talking about? It proves that Marcus ray was at.

So do you believe Marcus aurelius meditations? Have you read them?

Yeah?

I actually have them book?

Yeah, okay, so you've read it.

I'm in the process of it.

I have read it, sure, Okay, So, uh, is that an accessation to his existence?

I mean that claim it's his journal or his.

His Again, it's a double standard.

So Marcus Aurelius, there's evidence of his writings and existence, but when we talk about the New Testament, it doesn't count as Jews wrote it, which is a genetic fallacy.

It's a double standard, dude.

I guess thousands of people know that marx race is real.

And the.

Thousands of people know it. That's an appeal to the masses. Another fallacy. You don't you don't think fallacies matter. Just appealed to Okay, thousands of people believe in Jesus, so it's true.

Same argument you just make. All right, this is nonsense, Kaitlin, what's.

Up, Aja, I'm asking for a little bit of advice here. I got a buddy that gone to psychedelics pretty heavy and like the we're all one kind of view, and I was trying to talk him through it, make him realize it's kind of stupid to not see any good or bad. But I don't think my arguments really got through. What would you say to somebody.

Well, he's under that delusion. He's probably not going to be convinced by you arguing out of it. He's probably just gonna take time and uh, you know, growing up a little bit and some lived experience, and most people always but most people kind.

Of grow out of their DMT pro phase.

So I would just give it some time and just love the guy and be his friend, because you're probably not going to argue him out of his delusion of thinking that everything is one is some great insight. I would just point out. One thing you could point out is, well, dude, if everything is one and everything is also, then you're coming to believe that everything's one. It's also just a manifestation of the one, and so it's not actually any revelation.

Demani, what's up?

Thank you?

We're almost there.

I'm looking forward to the party's dream. Keep up? The good word?

Is that all? Or you have something else?

No, that's it? Yeah, I appreciate that.

We'll have a fun two thousand describer party stream Apple car. What's up?

Oh?

Not much, not much, not much?

You know, I was actually attracted Islam and baby seem are fake?

What is that?

What is it?

The papacytholicism? So they're all fake.

I mean probably you don't believe, but you cannot say it's a fake. You can't say I don't believe that's you have your choice.

Well, why can't I say it's fake if I can prove that it's fake.

No, you cannot prove, man, Okay, So can.

I give you an argument why it's fake? Yeah, that's the way you are you Muslim first? Yeah, okay. So multiple places in the Quran, and it says that the teaching of the Qur'an and of Muhammad are confirmed and proven by prior revelation of the Torah. The prior revelation is also believed by most of you guys to be corrupt. So it's self refuting to say that your book and your teaching is confirmed by a corrupt book.

That's that's not the proof.

I mean Islam, Islam is a lasting monetism, religions.

An assertion. So how does that address my objection?

I mean, yes, you know, it's confirmed this, you know, and previous you know, Judaism and Christianity was you know, okay, correct, But.

The previous religions are corrupted. So how does that corrupt thing confirm your religion?

I mean the corrupted mean is you know, editing changing language?

I know what the word RP means. So how can it confirm the religion?

Then?

I mean there are some true there is some you cannot answer.

Yeah, that backs the question. That's the thing in question. What is the true thing?

So yeah, we know that you think that it's corrupted, But how is it going to confirm the religion if it's corrupted?

You don't see the problem with that.

I mean, is it you know, hundred percentage? Oh so what's the I mean, that's that's percentage?

I mean, is it thirty percent corrupted? Eighty percent corrupted? You see how silly this is. How do we know what's the not corrupted part?

We know, I don't think Kuran that's not confirmed is corrupted.

Oh so that's the thing in question. So the Koran confirms the Koran by stating what's in the Kuran?

Thank you?

Yeah, that's a circle. Yeah, that's a circular argument. So that's why it doesn't work.

I mean, you know one thing about you know, I mean, yeah, we don't say.

The head Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, barthol of you, what's up. Good, Yeah, to ice to be a Muslim as well.

But just to add on to what he just said.

But basically, the kron obviously says in sur Free Versus fifty fifty three, how the disciples of Jesus were true photos of Allah, true foos of God. So and it says that they spread the true message and that their message became dominant. So if we look at the dominant message what they wrote, it's literally Christianity. So again just just just hamma that out.

So yeah, I want to say that's another great argument because if that got all up gave them the victory, and the victory was what they taught that was Christianity, then christian one.

Exactly.

Yeah, Anthony, Yeah, good points. Anthony, was.

Between like the Islamic worldview and and that of like unitarians or those that deny like the Apostolic succession, because I know you mentioned many times like heresy is rooted out of a misunderstanding of Christology.

Or uh yeah, even even his blom comes out of historianism and arianism.

Yeah, exactly, a great point. I mean, so I know you're driving, but I added this clip I saved that of this world. Leading Muslim apologist Saker Naike basically it's it's pretty dark. But this Canadian Muslim calls in and he asks him it's like a hotline. He calls in and asks him if if I raped the girl and then murdered her, and I'm not caught by the law, well a'llah forgive me, And he basically says, yeah, as long as you repent to a law, he'll forgive you.

It's it was it was just insane. I hope he was joking.

It's even no, it's even prasier than that, because if you watch Justine Peterson saying high.

All the.

Sorry you could it out on my end? Was that last part? Oh maybe just me? I can't hear you.

There's no.

Yeah, yeah, it's not you who commits the sin. It's like, uh yeah, it's it's weird man. So yeah, I just want to make that comment and and I added that video if you want to review. It's it's a guy that millions of people listen to and Muslims. It's it's even scarier in Canada. You know, you have Canadians calling and saying this stuff. Oh yeah, sorry, Jay, I couldn't hear that last part was cutting out.

I don't know if it just me or not.

Yeah that's.

H oh.

Yeah, maybe it's just I don't know if it's me or the signal. I can't hear anything.

U