HEATED ISLAMIC DEBATE: Sam Shamoun Calls In! KORANIC ISSUES!

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The all right, we're back for another open forum debate, and the reason for today's open form is if we had some interesting exchanges once again on X As you can imagine. Basically, there was a statement that Daniel Kikachu, who have already debated, wants to do the debate together with I don't know who, presumably Jake, I'm not sure, and Muhammed hit Job will not do it, so he bowed out.

I will have.

Hanged this over to Jake and Hikikachu. I don't know why he can't defend his position. I think isn't he does any brag about memorizing the Quran or something, so it seems like he would be able to debate it. I don't know, maybe he doesn't do debates. I haven't kept up, but we've already debated Daniel and Jake. I mean, if that's what we have to end up doing, that's fine. Of course Sam has already agreed to it, so they're

Bit he want'.

That's my remix. That's the remix of it right there. Anyway, we're gonna goead and open it up because there's not much time because the entire world will be watching Elon Musk and Donald Trump. I don't know if you guys ever heard of them. Are you all familiar with those two? Have you heard of Trump or Musquet? Many of you probably have not. They will be interviewing here soon, so we might as well get started, because I'm sure everybody will be watching that instead. Andrew Meyer is in the mix.

Oh.

I was hoping the Muslims would come. They're always so loud and talking so much hot air bravado hutspa I believe is the technical term, and it's so hard to get them to come debate anyway. It's open for him. That means the topics are listed as Islam, Catholicism, Protestantism, Arianism, Hebrew Roots, et cetera. If a Jewish person would like to debate, they can also call in a debate. It's open for him. Just keep your topics to those topics.

Hey man, I literally just debated Daniel on modern day debate. Oh, I don't know that I did a screen.

Share of my document because I was reading off my sources and such, and you know, I always thinking that I would even be able to screen shair.

I didn't know I could do that.

So my document was called how Pikachu Debate because I saw you call him Daniel, how Pikachu?

So wait, what did you two debate?

Oh, we were.

Discussing the Talmud.

He was telling people that the Talmud gives Jews license to rape anybody they want.

And yeah, that was a very educational bait for Daniel and a lot of his viewers.

Well, no matter how you debate with Daniel and Muslims, they will immediately declare that you lost and they will clip everything with twenty second clips. So it seems to be really just kind of a means to clipping twenty second clips is really what it ends up being.

I will say, you know, some of the people, like the first major comment on the YouTube that got likes, it's a guy with the Kaba the Islamic rock saying Andrew the Jew completely cooked. And another comment was like I followed Daniel. I love Daniel, but like Andrew creamed and crammed him, is what the guy said.

So some of them are honest.

Some of them are honest because it was it was pretty much a shutout.

Okay, well, I'm going over here. We'll look at the comments. Anything you want to leave us with, people can go check out your debate. I'm interested to watch that.

Yeah, the Mohammed jab the guy said that it's worse to be a Christian than a homosex and in his religion, homosexuals deserve death.

So that's a pretty nasty.

Thing to say.

And I think anybody like that.

Not paying attention to those type of statements, Like I think everybody that believes in God, there is an alliance that can be made in the world.

But we have to sort out things like that.

First.

You got to be aware of who you're talking to.

Somebody thinks that you're worse than someone that deserves death, you got to be aware of that.

So is this the debate, the one that's titled is the Torah's treatment of non Jews? Ethical?

Is that it?

That's it?

Okay? Yeah, well, thank you Andrew I'll check that out.

Is it your religion, bro?

Thank you?

That is a debate we don't see often. Now, we did have a Jewish individual debate the other day. He and I were debating the passages in the Torah and the prophets. So the accusation that I never debate anyone who's Jewish is not true. We just don't simply have We simply don't have that many Jews at calling to debate. But we had one last week and it went on for I don't know, thirty forty five minutes. So it's just simply not true. I'm typically open to debating anybody

I don't know.

Let me see. Let's see if Sam can join through Twitter space first, that would be the easiest, and then if he can't, I'll try to see if I can change the window capture to collab cam. I Mike can do that in the middle of a stream. I don't know if I've tried that before. So, but the easiest thing would be if Sam can just join the Twitter space. He messages me on Skype, I can't play the If I play Sam's message, it'll shut down the Twitter space. So the easiest thing is if he just joins up.

Hello Jay, Hey, how's it going, brother? What's up, man, not much, man, thank you so much for having me on.

I just wanted to talk about Protestantism and I wanted to just bring up what do you what do you think about the one Bible verse that says that wherever more than one and gather something like that, then I shall be there too. A lot of Protestants used that to justify the idea that the church felt a way and that there was need for reformation.

What do you think about that?

Well, this actually goes back to the Jewish tradition because Jews had this idea that you need a certain number of people there to have what's the term that he's a minion or something like that, like a group to make up a community. I forget the exact number that they had as their idea, but the principle is true. But it still doesn't mean that there's not an appointed

Gotcha? Okay, thank you, Jay, I appreciate you.

Yeah. I mean, in other words, you can't like take one verse kind of in exclusion to the rest of the verses. So the same principle could be true, like you know, with let's say we gather together, you know,

Gotcha?

Okay? So in other words, the rest of the passage will also informed this. It's not a denial of the place for liturgical worship, like I mean, Jesus doesn't mention the Lord's Supper in that passage, right, So when we conclude from that, oh well, I guess the Lord's sawper is not necessary because this verse doesn't mention that. It just says get together and pray.

Yeah.

Yeah, I feel like a lot of Protestants take an engine run a mile with it.

Yeah, exactly.

I'm a little starstruck being here with you and Sam as well, So anybody hear me.

Yeah, what's up?

Sam?

Hey?

Brother, what's up?

Yeah?

I was told you're calling out the Muslim so I wanted to come. Sure and you for that segment because I'm also live streaming. But what's going on? Muslim's buddy talk to me, Jake.

Yeah, we got to open for him here. I don't know how many Muslims are in the space. It's always kind of a random thing as to who shows up. I've invited multiple Muslims to come today. I don't know if they will. Let's see if we got a Muslim here.

Yeah, because I want to set the record.

Sweep because I know, yeah, please do you and me.

I know, I gotta be careful what I say because I got two strikes on YouTube and Daniel how key could you is responsible for the first one. So if I get a third one and the next ninety days, my account will be Dolle. So I got to be careful what I say because I'm on YouTube now because they just told me your life for the set the record straight. I have the receipts Donnie for standing for truth. I reached out to him, and I even have the receipts for modern day debate, a platform I will never

Am I like?

Is there a disconnect? Because if I'm debating you Mohammed's view the Bible to show you that Mohammad taught that the Bible is uncrumpt, but then you want to then debate me again on the authenticity of scriptures, that means either this man didn't get it or he wants to do jihad against Muhammad. Because once I established that Muhammad taught that the Bible's uncrrupt, he cannot attack the Bible if he's going to stay I'm listener. Now, am I

Well, I wouldn't call even say I'm an expert in logic, but I mean I know enough basic principles of you know, fallacies that there's certain things that they won't. We know that they're not going to debate you on anything textual. They'll only debate what they think is a safe space. So, for example, Jake, Jake's never going to debate anything textual, nothing to do with anything revelation in scripture or anything like that. He would they admittedly would not do well there.

Yes, let me set that straight, Jape. It's something he put a video mocking me about my analogies for the Trinity. Now, I promise Jake, and I hope he's listening. I promise Jake that I wouldn't attack him personally. Because Jake, it's public. He has MS, so I want to extend grace to him and pray for him that God will use that to bring him to the truth, and that because he's young, MS is not something to laugh at. So I promised him, Look, I'm not going to make it personal with you. We're

Yeah, I think they said yeah, go ahead, Yes.

Sim I just don't see the issue. For I am Muslim, so I'm biased.

But you are not accepting a two on two on modern day debates, which is pretty much the debate platform.

That's actually a lie. Have you seen my emails when I publish them or you're gonna lie like a good takiast? Did you see the emails? Why did I make and.

I didn't even make a statement.

No, because you said modern day debate, I actually agree to modern day debate to debate Danie hock Chu and I propose the four topics.

I'm not talking about what happened in the past. I'm talking about this two v two that is being presented now.

Why would we do it on lot of the debate? Why would we do that on modern day debate when that's already going to be on myrons?

Yeah, and let me let me correct you. Maybe you didn't listen to the first ten times after Modern Day Debate proved that he's not a man of integrity, I won't go on his channel now if they want to do it too on two Fresh and Fit? Right, Yeah, what's wrong with fresh and Fit? Okay? I mean that seems that seems you know that seems in your world kissing of Blackstone seems like monotheism. We don't care what it seems to you.

Get them onto on fresh and fit, amazing manner, dude, I guess no much better matters than Muhammed whom mount a nine year old and had you do muta and had your captive women Blackstone young men.

Anyway, Jay, you'll let me know when the Pagans are bold enough to step up to the plate and debate you and I. Yeah, and if you need me to come back if they join, just let me know on Skype. I'll join you because I just wanted to set the record straight because I'm on a livestream. But I will interrupted become if they come up.

And if you want me to join it, yeah, Well, I mean there's we got Muslims coming in if they want to debate.

Oh yeah, if they want to, yeah, but are they gonna do it or they're gonna start whining and making excuses? So, Jay, I wanted to talk to you.

If that's okay, Well why can't you don't want to talk to both of us? I'll bring another Muslim up.

Yeah, I mean I guess this would this topic would kind of not be for Sam Shampoo running from s Man.

Now you almost from Landing. Yeah, man, I'm running from Blackstone. Hey, hey, click this up?

Hey, why did you run away from SnO Park?

It was three of you guys.

It was the crook David would come on. I know my people, I know, come on, why did you run away?

Your brother?

Tell you? Let me lick the Blackstone become a poor collegies listening. I respect you, man, I'm sorry. I was trying to in front of you run away, but everybody else you your profit didn't run away. Why do you like to run away and call Muslims out? Like Muhammed who didn't do it from the front, but he went behind. I wore her dress? What about your wife?

I heard about your wife? What about you?

So if we're gonna do it, how is he running? How is he running? If we're gonna do it? This guy, this guy is ridiculous.

He ran away from.

J J.

So I kind of wanted to ask you some questions that would you know, benefit the audience. And you know, I'm here with sincerity because like I've like I view you as somebody that's like relatively intellectual.

Like what's get to the question. What's the question?

Yeah, so I'm trying. I'm trying to understand.

So if you have three persons.

With one nature, which is divine, and you have three persons with one nature, which is you know, human, how is that not three gods? The same way it is it three humans?

Because it's an analogy, and all analogies break down at certain points. The point precisely at which the analogy breaks down is that the three persons are not separate beings, like three humans are separate beings. So the analogy is just between the relationship of nature to person, not three separate beings. So in the same way you understand that as a Muslim, you believe the same thing about the attributes.

Just one second, just before we get into that, I kind of want to understand your view more so, is the being.

Numerically identical?

Meaning object one and object two have every single thing about them the same?

No, or, I'll say, wouldn't be distinct persons.

So the the being is not numerically identical to God.

You don't understand that something can be similar and different in different ways. They don't have to all. It's not an either or. That's what an analogy is. So you're confusing the analogy as if everything in the created aspect that's an analogy to what we're talking about, has to match up one to one, and it's not that way.

I don't I don't see what created has to do with this.

Though you said three human beings, those are creatures.

No, no, no, no, I asked you about God and the same being.

Yeah, but your original question was an analogy to three human beings and three divine persons. That's an analogy. Do you understand what let's let's rewind. Do you know what analogy is? First of all?

Yeah, sure, what it's comparing things to show the.

Same point or but there's also what is it a one to one.

And an analogy should be one to one?

No, that's not an analogy. Okay, so you don't even know basic grammar, so there.

So there isn't a way to represent with like you know, a sound analogy what you're trying.

To So there's unifical predication, equivocal predication, and there's an analogical predication. So what you said is that there's a one to one, right, that's not analogy. That's different.

No, that's that's that's regarding numerical identity, right, I asked you, is God numerically identical to the being?

The one being?

The word being is just like the word God. It can pick out different things. It's a generic term. It's not a proper noun. Okay. And that's your mistake is that you think that it only picks out one thing. But even in your own theology, it picks out different things things because you think Allah has attributes and you think that, and let me, I can just ask you if you think the attributes are possessed a sayety.

And I have a question for him about that. Hopefully you can define.

So I'm still ask about my own theological schools. So I don't really have a response. What I'm responding to, Jake.

Let me ask you a question to see your consistency. I know you want to run it's okay.

So how is saying that I don't have asked the question.

I don't have enough knowledge regarding my own geological spending.

You don't have enough knowledge of Jay's theological tradition.

But what you hear, that's why I'm asking him questions.

No, you're not asking questions to learn because every time he tries to explain it. See, this is the problem, Jay. They just want to talk over people. So the coward doesn't want to defend his own politicism, pretending to know Sham, I was having a good conversation with Jay. You're literally like, Jay, are you having a good conversation I'm having You're having.

Like, Well, the conversation is. Look, I mean you're you're confusing analogical predication with unifical predication. So unifical means in the same sense. So if I said that the threeeness of human beings is identical to the threness of divine persons, that would be unifical predication. That's a one to one. An Analogy is when there's aspects of it that are

Understand that, Yeah, but he's committing chirk. By the way, let me explain to you how he's committing shirk. God Sam, You're you're why he's committing shirk. Why Jay, if he's on your team, man, good luck on the deba. Yeah, okay, Jay, let me explain to you as they try to tell cover because that's what they do. They try to dominate and bully. That's what narcissts do. In the Koran. Just try and talk to j Well, you'd be not smart. Chapter forty two, verse eleven. Chapter one, twelve four says

About amazing argument, Sam, amazing Okay, Now tell me about the Koran?

Is it uncreated or created?

Yo?

Ja?

I mean, is there anything we're not going to answer that? What about the Quran that I can talk to you, is it uncreator created?

I'm not. I'm not here to debate Islam.

Here you are, I'm talking about you. You're going attorney in the question, of course you are.

I'm trying, dude, That's that's it. I'm I don't want to talk creative.

Well, what's wrong with Okay? Well do you want me to ask you Sam's question about? How about? I just asked you Sam's question?

Then?

I mean, yeah, good, I'm really not interested in that, right?

Why not?

I mean it's the same principle. Is all a one or many?

So Jay asked for ask on my behalf, you'll be my agent. Shelley is the creator, uncreator See if he's gonna answer this.

Is this is so silly. He's right here. You can hear what Sam saying. Come on, man, what what do you think?

Yeah?

All right?

Do you have someone else?

Because he's doctor. Let's see what doctor?

Oh he's this guy's a peace I like this guy?

Is he here? Yeah?

Look, I just want you gotta send me your notes. I was still still getting this together, but I had a comment for r J.

So, r J, you you just you can't go attacking their theology when you don't have your own together.

I love you, man, You'll just hit a critical like if.

You if you believe that God's attributes are uncreated, eternal.

And they're not identical to God and they're not other than God.

You can't go attacking a Trinitarian for believing something very similar about his divine persons.

You can't do that, doctor Kelliam. Just so my audience know who you are, doctor Khalil, and Danny. He is an Ismaili, an Islamic philosopher. He actually debated Jake on the incoherence of Toheed. This man is brilliant and I'm not saying it to say it. He is. I'm waiting for your notes and it would be an honor if you feel that I'm good enough to have you to bring you on, because I know David had brought you on because as in Ismaili, you actually believe that Christ

Yes?

Yes, okay, we're not the only ones who believe that there are there Muslims historically minority will have you too.

You have my contact face because I reached out to you for your notes. If you ever want to come on and talk about your Ismayliism, your view of God that it's nothing like the Athities and you have problems with it. And if you want to talk about that, the crowd does not categorically deny that Christ was killed by a crucifixion, it'd be an honor for me to bring.

You on an interview.

Well, everyone should also watch Jake's debate with doctor Khalil too. I'll watch that many times.

So that was a great debate, ye, speaking of debate in the spirit off a friendly discourse and not not at homing.

And I responded to your guised debate challenge, and I've offered a three on three debate between three of you and three of my people, again in a friendly academic spirit.

It's in a tweet.

And I've also proposed, because you guys don't know much about our position and we don't know so much about yours, so I've also proposed.

That bally, do we debate again in a proper way.

But I also have proposed a before the debate, long before the debate, a public discovery session.

Where we would meet online and then we just.

Have like an open Q and A with each other out Okay, what is your position on this? What is your position on that?

I don't expect you to answer this right now, but is doctor, that's no problem.

It's fine.

I'm open to anything. Like I'm always open to that kind of stuff. I'm open.

Yeah, I all for just one thing. Member of my specialty fortee. Just so there in my background is scriptural exegesus. The philosophical whiz would be Jay. So if I do discussions, I prefer to make a textual based so I would well be more than happy. Do you bring into others. Jay's got me with him, he can bring someone else.

Let's do this.

So but yes, I understand that I don't know lich debate because you guys have been proposing like three four topics. I can't keep tracks. So I just responded to trinity like your trinity model versus a Neil or Neil platonic heat model. We can again think about it. We're happy to discuss the specifics of what it would can what it would cover, whether we just philosophy metaphysics, or whether it be scripture and metaphysics, and we can we can talk about that.

But it's just it's an open.

Call and it would be a debate in the technical sense, but it won't be a debate in this popular sense where everyone just you know, we're just trying to like score points like WWE or something like.

We're not interested in that. What we're interested in.

It is sort of like a proper exchange of each Each group's position is very clear, the arguments for and against. And if you want an idea of what I'm talking about, I've debated, and I put this in quotes. You know, I've debated David Would a couple of times, right, yes, And I've debated Joshua Side right also, And this is what I have in mind. So, yeah, we have different views, and I'm not going to pretend I have the same

Yeah.

Pretty, they're pretty nice to each other. They're civil, nobody insults the other person's mother or whatever it is.

By way, just for the record, I was challenging the dies. Oh, I understand that, I understand.

I totally see it. I know what you guys are doing. And I'm not a part of that industry.

Exactly my agenda and from my colleaguesist we occasionally will involve ourselves on this because we want to raise the discourse. And frankly, we're tired of a marginal Celerfie theology, you know, because celo fees are marginal, like their theology is marginal. This is not even the majority of studies. But we're sort of tired of this sort of like dominating the airwaves.

It sort of becomes old.

I mean, Jay already j beat Jake's celopism. I beat Jake's celifism. It's just getting old now.

They just keep yeah and both person beat it too.

So how many losses are these guys going to take?

I think it's time for this, the more intellectually grounded and philosophically.

Sophisticated positions to dialogue. And this is even what some academics have said.

They've said that, look, if the dialogue partner of Christianity was this spiritual philosophical Islam, you know, everything would be quite different.

And I think that's true.

I agree with you, doctor, and I want people to know you are not among these diies. You are respectful. I'm not just saying to say that I've seen your work. You are professional.

You know.

The irony of what you're saying is that the term dae as a title was invented by the Ismileys.

Wow historical your language.

Yeah, Dawa and die as formal titles of people at activity.

This is an ismili invention.

Nobody Smiley's called themselves dies and did die off our dialogs different, but yeah.

Yeah, I'm sorry that they hijacked that term. But I want people to know this man is a professional Islamic philosopher. Watch his discussions. Very perfect. Fact my first introduction to you.

You may not know this.

Years ago you had a symposium on Christology. You were representing a Smailism shiver Aali the sunny position, and he had Tony Costa, and you had a Catholic representing the Protestant Catholic view of Jesus Christ.

Do you remember that?

I remember it very well.

The video is still on my discussion.

It was excellent. That's kind of professional dialogue in debate, superb because you gave your position, Shaver gave his position, Tony Costa gave his position, and I forget the Catholic man's name, but it was four perspectives on Jesus superb correct. So my hat's off too. You are professional and you are a gentleman.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

The offers there.

Again, we take your time. We're happy to discuss specifics at a later time. We're in no rush, so if this doesn't happen for months, it's not a problem. But we're just putting it out there.

You got so, Jay, it's in your court. If you ever want me to join in this discussion, I'll do the technical stuff. I'm here to do that because you're the philosopher. I'm the textual guy that's saying that. I'm great, but you know what I mean.

Sure, yeah, I appreciate that, Doctor Klow, appreciate that. Sam. You guys are welcome to I'm happy to say something up down the road for sure.

Now, brother Jay, if you don't have any Muslims want to debate us.

Oh, there's all. There's a whole crew of Muslims.

But are they gonna talk or they're gonna insult in custom?

Let's say who's next. Let's say who's next? Right, go ahead, Hassan, there here we go, gonna. I'm mute. Man, All we go, Hassan, I'm mute.

If you want to talk as getting ready for the attack and so it's guys.

Get ready, Hassan Shibley, un mute if you want to talk.

Man, By the way, for those on my channels, I don't want you to confuse it with Sonny Islam. In fact, doctor Kott is more qualified to speak of his branch of Islam. It comes out of the Shiat tradition solism, right, and so sadly they've been persecuted by Sonny muscle. So this is a group that's been targeted and persecuted by Sunny Muslims. So he's not like these Sunney I don't know what to turn. I don't want to use you anymore because it's from them.

They were persecuted and harassed by the larger Sudney community.

So I thank God for him because he puts them in their place philosophically, textually.

But go ahead, hows on, I'm mute. Do you want to talk? All right, we'll move on. If you're not going to.

Talk, everyone, okay, we're on YouTube, man.

Go Stott, what's up? I'm mute. Stott. You want to talk, I'm mute.

Man, oh salamlekum.

Can you hear me?

Mm hm, ok.

Yeah, we can hear you.

Man.

To preface, I'm not a Muslim, I have perennials gleanings, but I would like to ask your opinion on goofy tradition, particularly the doctrine of debt we should or unity of being a sort of atheist metaphysic put for it by I.

Just did a talk. I did a talk on that the other day. Go ahead, no, no, I just.

Wanted to say, so people know what he's talking about, Islamic panantheism. I but go ahead, yeah. Yeah.

The core idea is that everything that exists is a reflection.

Of God's essence.

Right, that's a neo Patonic idea.

Well, it's derived from Neoplatonism. They had a great deal of influence on the Arabic world at that time.

Yep.

That's why you should talk to doctor Khadid and Danny because that's what's his position is.

Right, Okay, yeah, I would critique it by the traditional critiques of neoplatonism, and many of the Church fathers actually combated neoplatonism in various forms. So there's quite a few of those basal critiques that affinaceous critiques it. In fact, the Cappadocians argue that Neoplatonism is really the root of most of the chrystological and trinitarian errors. There's a great essay written by an Orthodox theologian, how Eunomius's position relies on Neoplatonism. Let mess if I can find it.

Well, I'm shocked to hear that, because my existing notions of Eastern Orthodoxy were like through you know, Pseudodonysis and the like, who are greatly influenced by apathetic theology, which is in turn derived from Platinis and such.

Well, I mean, the fact that there's overlap at times does not mean that ultimately that theology is derived from that are based on that. In fact, Basil argues probably more than any of them, against neoplatonism. I see, Okay, and the paper I would recommend to you, Let me see if I can find it. Let's see. I think it's called something like Unomius's reliance on Platinus. Let me see if I can find it. It's a really good paper to make this point. It's got It's written by

H h h, dang it.

What is the name of that paper? Let me think for a.

Second here, Well, while you're occupied, I don't mean to bombard you with questions, but what do you make of the traditional school?

I'm sure you're familiar with, say.

Seraph and rose and such, but what do you think of that specific branch of perennial philosophy and a shoe on coomber swelling and the like.

Yeah, I have a shelf of their works back here behind me. I had an interest in that in my twenties. I read a few of their books. But no, I think Orthodox Christianity is incompatible with with traditionalism printialism, although I did just do a lecture on it the other day, by the way, see.

You know, yes, m.

Let me look some more and I'll try to find that paper and link it underneath this. Did you want to say something else, doctor KLi, dang it, that's not it?

So that was it?

So that it's in our discord server. I know we have the paper. I just can't find the public link to it and I've read it three times. I can't remember that Greek day's name though. All right, tell you what, let me look really quick in the discord server in the PDF bank and I can find it. Okay, here we go, here we go. Here it is. The paper is called Plotinus and Unomius, a parallel theology of three hypostases. That's it.

I just cited that paper two weeks ago out of coal.

Yeah, because I was trying to tell them that, okay and Platinus that you know me and theology is very similar to us.

And somebody was like, no, it's not, and I was like, yes, it is, and then I cited the paper.

Yeah, here's the paper. I finally found it. If you're looking for it right there, it is, and it's in the chat there, and then I'll try to put it underneath this chat later on. Did you want to say something else, doctor Koli.

Yeah, just on this dropic of apple Fasis.

But is it not the case that in Orthodoxy, like your position on the divine essence, like is apple Fasis correct?

That's why we have the energies doctrine, because in the essence, we don't know the energies come down to us, as Basil says.

But when when you say God is God essence plus energies or God is just essence.

Energies are actions of God. So they're not composed, they're not composite parts. They're actions that God does or their attributes.

Sorry, the energies are actions or attributes both.

Okay, but then you know the son is the like dacheries and like they'll say openly because Ali says that, oh, the term allow referras to the essence and the attributes together.

So for you like the term God, does it only refer to the essence?

No, it picks out any of those things. God picks out the word. God can pick out person, it can pick out essence, or it can pick out energy, attribute operation.

Does a pickout Does it ever pick out like like several of these things. It picks them all out but all at the same time? Or is it sort of just Sometimes essence sometimes.

Mean well, I mean depending upon the context or the debate that's being had. For example, when pallet Must debates with the Roman Catholics, it's typically you know, he's talking about it as an the word God as an energy or the work because God, if it refers to existence. The cappa Docians often say as an energy. Uh if it's picking out the divine essence even though we don't know it. And then it's picking out the essence, So

In your theology, is the do the deride? Essence is concrete, right, but it's not just abstract.

Uh.

Yes, it only exists in the mode of the person's that have that essence. So it doesn't exist in any kind of higher abstract platonic idea or form or realm. So the essence only exists in the mode of the person of the Father and the son and the spirit. It doesn't exist like above them. They don't participate in it.

Is a real distinction, Yeah, we.

Don't think distinctions entail composition or division.

Nobody's a real distinction or is it just like a mental distinc No.

It's a real distinction because for example, we don't believe you can participate in God's essence, but we believe that grace is a participation in God's energies.

And the energies there is attribute and energy just like two turns for the same Or are some of these energies that attributes.

And some of them act well, It depends on Again, it depends on what the context is. For example, the action of God creating the world is a unique action at one point, and so God is not continually creating another world, at least as far as we know of other things. Like for example, in John seventeen, Jesus says that he came to give us a share in God's glory. So we would say God's glory is an uncreated energy that we really participate in. But it's distinct from the action of creating the world.

Okay, so some of these energies are like temporal, No.

The energy is the energies themselves are not temporal, but they have a once once, a one point in time reference, you could say. So, for example, in Genesis, has God wrested from his works? And so when Palamas has debate with the Latins, the debate ends up hinging on at one point, what does it mean for God to rest from creating? Well, Palamus argues that it means that God didn't have to keep creating. It wasn't an emanation. It was a decision that he did by will at one

Okay, cool, thank you.

Yeah.

I mean, if we have an open colloquium or whatever, I'm happy to you know, answer or explain any of those kinds of questions. Did you want to come back and speak. I forget what your name was, rd RJD. You know what up?

Man?

Yeah?

Yeah, I just a quick response to Khalil.

Can you explain how asking somebody what their position is is attacking their beliefs?

Well?

I think he's saying that you came on to debate, and so it's a debate form debate.

I literally just want to know what you believe.

Well, but it's listed as a debate, so typically people that pop in, we assume it's a debate.

Okay.

I thought that was referring to, like just saying that you're going to have a debate to sneako takee.

Oh no, no, no, say I opened this up for everybody to call it debate typically.

Okay, So yeah, Khalil, I'm not here to attack anyone's belief I'm here to understand their beliefs, which is exactly why I did not want to defend my view of Islam because I don't even know if I'm an eschery or an ethery.

So how could I defend something that I don't even have a position on it?

Okay, anything else you want to say?

No, I just yeah, that was it.

Appreciate it, dude, Tack Blue, what's up?

Man? Hi?

How are you doing?

What's up?

Man?

Yeah? Sam can come back if he wants. Two people in the chat are saying that he left. I mean I thought he was just busy doing another stream. He can come back every once, So I don't care.

I am in a park, so there's gonna be some noise.

If that don't minds you, You sound good to me, to go ahead.

Okay. So my first Christian is.

I don't understand how Jesus fulfills the law.

What does it mean?

Well, I mean I would say there's a couple of senses to what it means. In one sense, it's a reference to his own divinity, and so by being the son of God, he can't do evil, He does no wrong. He's a perfect being. And so by being the divine son of God, every action that he does is virtuous. Every action that he does is righteous and according to the law. Because we believe that Jesus gave the law.

But I still don't understand it.

So are you saying that because he was perfect and he gave the law that in a sense he can choose, uh, and it in some way.

Well, it's not ended, in the sense that the moral meaning, even behind the ceremonial laws, continues on. For example, if you read Paul's epistoles, he'll say stuff like, uh, you know, when it says not to sew to garments onto the sense two patches onto a garment or not to sow two seeds in a field. He says, that's a spiritual principle that still continues on. So the Old Testament, for example, unclean animals, those were for us symbolic of vices and

Because just think that it's just all about the law, and they don't, right, I think before it And my other question is one argument I've seen that shaped which man said, is that if Jesus has two like he has a human part and divine essence when he died, where did the human Did the human and the divine separate?

Right? So yeah, this is covered in John Damascus Book three. If you go all the way down to the last part of on the Orthodox Faith, the book three of John Damascus, he gives a whole exposition of our position on this in a very brief three or four paragraphs. I highly recommend it for those who want to just read a few paragraphs. But in short, we believe that no, the divine person of the Sun was never separated from the human nature because he's a divine person, so he's

And finally, if you don't mind, yeah, it's a cushion of both is I think on the website drew for Judaism that they explained to ascendence, you are made a priest forever by the other of Melchisedek. Right, that's Melchisidic. It's just a title of a king. So when you say you, like the son of David, are going to be a priest priest forever and the order of Melchisidic is like you're going to be an administrator by the like of a rifle king.

Yeah.

I mean, Jews have all kinds of explanations to try to get around passages that would make the Messiah prophet, priest and king, and particularly with a person of Christ. So I don't doubt they have all kinds of ways to try to say that the Messiah when he comes, will be like David and a descendative David, and that

But in a way, what the Jew will say is that those statements are made after like the Jews at the time, they didn't have this whole thing about Melchizedeic and everything.

They're going to point to passages.

Like when the Peter didn't understand why Jesus had to die. They're going to say that the Messiah at this time wasn't understood to be a sacrifice.

No, but that's not true. That's why the Jews have to That's why the Talmudic position is that there's two Messiahs, Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David. One of them dies.

Uh.

Is that the majority statement.

It's the Talmudic rabbinical teaching, all right, I mean, I mean reform Jews won't believe that, but if they're Orthodox or Rabbinic Jews they will, all right. So, yeah, those are great questions, great questions. Appreciate that. Shout out to John pro what's up man, and then we'll go to Hamsa next. How you doing, dude, looks like I was having a hard time connecting. If you want to pop out, pop back in, I'll go back to you John. Let's see hams up. What's up?

Hi?

Bro?

Is my voice clear?

Yeah?

Uh So.

I was watching the sub Chamon's life yesterday and he was given analogies about the trilogy, and one of the analogies he gave is the car analogy.

And this analogy is saying that that, for example, the trilogy is like a car.

A car has parts, and this part the engine, the wheel, I don't know, and these parts are like the Son.

Jesus and Jesus, the Holy spirits, and the Father. But for me, this is a heresy.

This is a partialism because when you see the car has engine and has will and has so on.

I understand part. I understand created things are composite. God is not composite. We all believe that. So he's just making an analogy between something could be one and many at the same time, just like you believe about the attributes.

Yeah, but the engine is not the car, but Jesus is God. So the persons mean the essence in the trinity is the nature being God. But the essence in the car analogy must be also the car.

But the engine is not the car, the wheel is.

Not the car.

Well, he's just making it right. So the analogy breaks down at the point you're talking about. But it's only an analogy to one and many, not to parts.

I mean, gee, for me, this car analogy is for the for the trinity is flawed.

I mean, let me give an example. If it's the same principle. Okay, the number three, right, the Arabic number three?

Yeah, turn out, so it's a tree.

Okay, is that one or is it three?

The essence is being a number.

But if you not, my essence is just just just three, is it? Is it one thing or three things?

Is the one thing?

Of course, but it's also three.

Yeah, but the essence is being a number. But if you do, but you cannot, you can.

See you're you're getting confused. Your confusing the mataphestic lesson. You're confusing the it's a limited analogy that's only referring to numerics. It's not talking about essences.

Let's stick with this example. So you said it's three one thing. Okay, So if you if we give this example as the trilogy.

So the three is like.

Three, not a tree. Three.

Yes, three, I mean three, the number three, not the three of course.

So the number three, if we compare it to the trilogy, is the god head.

The tree is the god Head.

And if we separate the three, we have one one one. One is not the tree, but in the trinity, Jesus is God.

Mm hmm.

So this is also flowed analogy. I don't understand it.

Explain to me how it's flowed analogy. I'm listening to you.

Okay, what explain it. I'll give you just one minute.

So in your example, we have three, it's three one thing.

Of course, it's the one thing. But what is there is the number tree.

So this is where you're making a mistake. You're going into essences. The only thing that we're saying is is an analogy is the numerics nothing to do with essences. Okay. It's just pointing out that something can be three and one at the same time and it doesn't involve a contradiction. That's all we're saying. That's okay.

A quick question a quick question. G what are the parts of three? Who has one? One? One? Yeah?

No, no, no, you're missing the point the number. Look, I can make the same analogy to attributes. Okay, is all of ninety nine parts?

These are names?

What?

Well, the attribution of being all powerful is not We don't say all powerful.

This attribution of being all powerful is good.

No.

Wait, so all of his attributes, all all of us attributes are Do they possess a saiety?

No, that's that's his nature is one means of being good.

Okay, I know that, But I'm talking about the attributes. So do the attributes have a dependence relationship on Allah's essence?

They are? They are Allah, They are Allah.

You cannot say the attribution for being know all knowledgeable is good. We don't all say that. But you say Jesus is good. The Holy Spiritch is good.

So the hold on.

So wait a minute. So now you're so you're admitting that the attributes are dependent.

I don't listen to anything.

Let's sick with you.

It was that not the argument you just made.

No, No, let's stick with your example. It's very easy.

So you don't want to talk about the attributes because it's the same problem. You don't see that.

No, your example was very easy and simple for all the people that are here.

Okay, let's stick with it.

You see, the example is just talking about something being one and many. You don't understand that something could be one in many. You know, does all I have many attributes?

Just get you one minutes?

Can you let me just say so?

You won't? You guys are so like emotional You just spit out stuff without listenings.

Come on, one minute?

Is all a one in many? Is all one in many?

Oh?

My god, he's allah when you okay?

So are they really different?

Look?

Is there a depend you understanding? This is a debate in your own Akida's right? This is there's a dep there's a debate. There's not a debate between different aquida's about the attributes.

So you the one to me? So you just okay, you speak because.

You're just spitting out stuff without even listening to what I'm saying? Is that even a debate? Do they debate the dependence relationship? So you want so you want to answer these basic questions?

What do you know?

Are Come on? Do the different akitas debate? Do the different Akita's debate the relationship. Why are you saying my name? Every time somebody starts spitting out my name? We know that's the point at which they're losing the whole discussion.

I have many many points.

Do yours school's debate the relationship between Allah essence and his attributes and dependence relationships?

So he won't.

So he won't answer because the car analogy is only talking about the one in the miny? Do you know what the one the mini is? Do you know what the one the mini is? Agree with the So he won't even talk. So this is how silly these people are. It's like talking to children. They think that an analogy has to be one to one correspondence. Like the first guy they came on here didn't even know what he thought an analogy was unifical predication. They don't understand the

Umah?

Did you there?

Yep?

Yeah?

Let me let me correct these Muslims who can't represent anything anyone says. Now when I say Muslims, I'm talking about the suny Muslims. I don't want to put the silent undoney.

And the same.

He's he left, it's all, it's all soon he's in here.

Yeah. But I just want to clarify everyone, go watch the clip. I never said the carnalogy is the trinity. What I said was in context. Let me just explain for the people. See, this is why Muslims sinning. Muslims, you really make us despise religion because you can't be honest. This is why I treat you the way you do. Proverbs twenty six, verse five, answer full according to his folly. Let's he become wise in his own mind.

So this is why I do it.

But look at the difference with Kinda than Danny. Now, in that analogy, I never said the car is analogus trinity. That's a lie I said in Creation. I have the clip, it's there on YouTube, and you guys want to lie. I said, in Creation we see complex unity. It's all around, agreed.

Complex Yeah, we've made I've made that same analogy. I agree with it.

Okay, So that's all one of us. That was all the analogy was. Like in Creation you see complexity, diversity and unity, composite complex unity. If that's true of the finite temporal realm, why would we think that God his being would be any less complex.

That.

That's all I said, right, And that's an analogy which we have our you as well, which is just simply that. To put this in philosophical terms for those who don't know, this is called the problem of the one in the many. Something can be one and many at the same time. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's composite. Muslims believe typically that there's a dependence relationship between between Allah and his attributes,

Hey, I'm jake, God bless you.

Man.

You're more patient than me. I don't know how you handle them, because you see why I lost my hair. I'm looking at I said, I can't handle this. But anyway, I'm here, brother.

If you got any Muslims ring them up, no, there's a million of them in here, So let's go.

I bet you're gonna show what's up.

Yeah, you're here.

I don't hear him.

He's raising his hand and he's not talking.

I'm mute, yep, okay, fantastic. We had some connection issues.

That's all right.

We're Muslim.

We want to let you know that.

We believe.

The Holy Or is the final testament of God. Okay, we know that you're okay, Okay, that's fine.

So we believe in the Torah, we believe in the in Kiel, the Gospels, we believe in the Bibles.

So but but you don't because because the Quran actually confirms the prior revelation.

I just want to ask him, trying to say, we have to believe in the prior books.

Can I ask you a question about one second? Let me finish my sentence. Let me finish my sentence at least. I don't want to answer. They want to preach, but go ahead. No, I don't want to preach. I was talking for you. You don't have no idea. The middle of speaking, you can ask me question what you believe. So what I was saying was, yeah, so you're very rude, very rude. No no, no, no, my profect.

Right.

They want to preach. Okay, I'm not preaching.

No, we know your position here, So do you talking?

I was talking, but you interrupted me.

You're very immoral, That's what I'm gonna say. Anyway, Well, I'll try to don't talk about manners when you follow Mohammed because I'll show you his son.

But he is the best profet.

Do not do not, do not, do not, do not do not.

Do you want want profect? Okay, good, get to your point. Do not demonize my profect. My friend it was he thought he was even possessed. He said, no, no, you are. You are a very fine that's that's in your tradition. Did you not want to do thought he was even? You met that guy so I can talk on it.

We don't need a sermon. So if you have an argument for how you believe the Torah, which, by the way, the Koran says that the Torah is not corrupt, right.

Right, I was going to say, okay, anything that I'm telling you, yes, I have better than you and your prophet. I'm not talking to you some No, he brought me up here.

I'm with him.

Whether you're like no, no, no, no, I'm talking to I'm talking to Jay the host answer me.

This is so, this is so ridiculous. They will talk to me and they won't talk to you, Like if you're not going to talk to Sam and then don't don't even come on. There's no point in talking through another person. Tanji, what's up?

You know why jay right? They want to pick it up because they know they can't get away with lying about the Koran and the deeds.

You know the deeds as well too. I'm mute, man, what's up? Tanji? I agree? Tanji? Un mute? Uh huh, what's up?

Yeah, I'm not Muslim, but I've heard you.

You never got to finish it, but I hear you start of this critique or you ask if the attributes have a sayety.

Right, because it depends on how they're going to answer it, because they try to argue that if you think that there's distinctions, and for example, they'll say, does the sun possess a sayety? If he doesn't possess the power to cause, then he's diminished and he's less in their subordination. And then they'll turn around and say that the attributes have a dependence relationship upon Allah's essence and upon one another. So that's a double standard. That's the whole reason I

They don't believe in the absolute devinde simplicity, right.

It just depends on which Muslim you're talking to, because Khalil does. But most of the Sonnies will try to argue for some kind of distinction between Allah and his attributes, which is the whole point of why they get stuck on this question. That's why I asked it.

What do you think like the strongest critique against uh like strict monotheism, unitarian God is There's.

A lot of different critiques. I mean, if you want to first of all, if they claim to be consistent with the Bible, they're already shooting themselves in the foot because the Bible doesn't teach their generic unitarianism, it teaches trinitarianism. So that's why they have to immediately say once we start going to all these passages of whether the Theophanies and the Trinity throughout the Old Testament. By the way, that's why they immediately say corrupt, but book is corrupt.

Do you have a video where you like critique mostly just this unitarian guy.

By the way, to add to what Jay said. You'll be shocked for me to say this. This is why if we do set up a discussion what's had it and Danny and the other two, You'll be shocked at me saying this. The Krawn does not teach pure unitarianism, pure forms to heat. The crime actually posits more than one deity. This is why I've always challenged Muslims debate me on whether the Koran teaches pure monotheism. So that's

Right.

But with the Sunnys it's even worse because they go with the churn in the sunnight, and yet they don't take me up on it. Why is that because I'm such a meani? That's why, Jay, because I'm not nice?

Good right. And we should also point out too, as I made the point in my open aning statement to Daniel Hokikichu in that debate, the Jews for the most part were not unified in their unitarianism. So Jews were not unitarian. They taught multiple different views. They had a quote fluid view of the fact that God believed that, they believe that God had multiple powers, multiple hypostasies, and

Do you have a stream or a video on YouTube? Were you critique thisly in depth?

I mean, yeah, tons of them. I don't know specifically, I mean, but I mean we've been just go watch my you know, Trinity the Old Testament. Sam's done, Trinity in the Old Testament talks. All of that will get into that.

Yeah, And also if you want to see a critique of what the Crown teaches about unity. If you go to my YouTube channel, put in craw on trinity. I actually argue for a form of chronic trinitarianism, which is a counterfeit, but nonetheless it's there, so you can do them. Look at That's why I'm asking Wilims here, refute me, Prove I'm lying, Prove that I'm misinterpreting the Crown. Come, it's here, book, bread and butter, to heat. Let's see if someone will take us up on the challenge.

Go ahead, Hamza, what's up, Hamsa? I'm trying to add you. Do you want to talk or not? You're the one critiquing Sam's car analogy, so we're at.

It.

Won't let me add him?

So that's good. Now. I wonder if any because I have I want them to address their so called to heat. Let's see if anyone will do it. Let's see anyone.

Else he left.

He won't do it. Wonderful, wonder why you left?

I wonder, Beauty Jay, I'm not as sharp dressed as you and nice as you.

Jail, what's up?

Hey?

I was real I was trying to ask about right now.

I'm more like in between of agnostic and trying to find my way into Christianity. But I came across your channelent scene like your orthodox Christian came across Sam as well independently.

Muh.

I was being to ask like based off of because I had to discussed with my uncle because he's an ordained pastor at a Baptist church about solo and scriptur.

Doct and.

How do you how could I like conveyed, It's like not really because I kind of came across that it wasn't really making sense.

But I don't know how to explain how those doctrines don't make sense. He said, there's no Protestant thinking about this doctrine.

Well, go watch my debate with uh Dale the Protestants, Me and doctor Bo Branson against Dale and his Protestant buddy. That whole debate will answer a lot of those questions if you're looking for a sol scripture of debate. Let's see, do we have any Muslims that want to come on the debate?

By the way, since this is Jay's channel and he wants engage a variet of issues, I want to engage the Muslims. So Muslims come up and challenge us.

Yeah, we're going to get first place to Muslims exactly.

Yes.

Yeah. And then when he wants to continue to discuss with Catholics Protestants, God bless him, you know. But with me, I want to stick the Muslims. The reason why is because I don't want to add any bad blood between Orthodox and Catholic. I love them both. So I'm Jay's favorite heretic.

I haven't called you heretic.

I called myself that. Sorry, someone else calls me that.

Jayl Vanni. Do you want to talk? We're asking for Muslims who want to come to go ahead.

Hey, First of all, let me just say that I am very impressed. I was brought up as a Pentacles. I grew up and then it started Bronx New York, and I just wanted to ask one simple question.

I watched one of your videos earlier.

Today when you said that Jesus.

Can me or Sam Sam.

Okay, yeah, you said that Jesus can via the seed of David.

Okay, but hold on, and then I are telling me hold on, yeah please.

So I know that Jesus came to the Virgin Mary via the Holy Spirit. So do you want to answer you now? So in Romans, one three, when Paul tells you Jesus of the seed of David according to the flesh Romans one three, two Timothy two eight, where Paul says that Jesus is of the seed of David according to my Gospel two Timothy two eight, Romans one to three, or in Revelation twenty two sixteen, where Jesus says, I am the root and offspring of David. Do you want me to go on and show you that the Bible

Probably that the.

Good to know?

Okay, yeah, the Bible says that he can.

He admits, Yeah, even says that you're that Jay. He's got a problem with the Bible.

He goes, Yeah, I mean the Dividic Covenant right requires that the Messiah by of the seat of David two Samuel seven. So what are you talking about?

Yeah, so he didn't come through the via the Holy Spirit? Who said he didn't? He did? Yeah?

Who said he didn't? Think a little deeply? You think that Jesus can only be the seat of David from a man, not from his mother.

His human nature is from Mary. So that's how.

All right?

That in my case?

Thank you.

Rest your case by admitting our point. Okay, good job. R.

D J.

Wants to come back. What's up, man? You gotta argument this time?

I don't know he is? I don't remember?

Yeah?

Could I can I one on one?

Sam? Real quick? Sure?

If you don't want to beat me up?

What is it?

I don't know who is it? Was he here earlier?

Yeah?

Yeah? So Sam, is it true that Yahweh ordered an army to murder babies?

Well, yeah, it's so true that Allah and chapter two, verse two forty six fifty and chapter five of your front twenty twenty six a law order that Musa and he said slaughter babies. It's also true. Show me, show me, show me. Read the verse. Read the verse. Read stop parking, take it easy, five twenty to twenty six. There your law set that told Musa to tell the Israelites to enter into the Promised Land Canaan. But they were afraid

So you're you're you're changing the topic from the world discussion.

No, he brought up. They brought up the very thing from your book. Dude, I got it on the screen.

He's okay, read read the verse and let me know you want to murder some.

Babies in that verse because he is the murder of babies in that verse, you guys.

Or know the context is showed me, show me show me the word babies.

Okay, so this here we go with the word expectation, which is not even you don't even hold to that.

Okay, well still, look, let me ask you another thing, exactly exactly way your Michael, y'all, what instantly said to murder being Allah flooded the people of Noah? Did he drown babies? That's God doing that, not in or drown babies.

Oh that's God doing it, not an army doing it. Okay, yeah, good art, Get on another question, Yeah exactly, that's not That's how I see you, guys.

Let me ask you another questions when answer he murder babies? Yes or no? Are there are there baby? When Allah pelted Sodom and go mora with in the word kill babies in the verse that you quoted, Are there babies?

Yes or no?

I want to see if you're honest, Sam, chapter Live Christianity will teach you to lie.

You understand that the verse is about the death of babies. You don't understand that so an army is ordered to murder babies in that your own, your own God drowned babies in the flood.

Right, Yeah, that's God doing it. That's okay.

Exactly. So what's the difference.

Yeah, there's a there's a difference, and it's what forcing another human to murder babies?

That's that's ford to decide, not humans. Notice he said the God decided, So Allah.

Decided that Mussa, he did not decide to murder babies.

That's yahweh Allah, you're Satan.

Yeah, Where where's the word babies in the burden?

This is Muslim?

There sam.

The god that ordering an army to murder is where is the word law chafon mama? Chathon ordered Musa to enter the promised then to kill them. It doesn't say don't kill babies. Where does the verse say that, don't shift the burden?

Well, he's coming. They always do this. They come up with these arbitrary standards, and they say, well, but the verse doesn't say this word. Where's trinity in the Bible? Where's in the Bible?

See that's the thing. This is why they want to talk to you about me, because I know these arguments and turn against them. But you guys heard him admit that his Allah was the one who drawn babies at the time of No, that's okay. If my Olah murders baby as long as humans.

Don't do it.

Yeah, it's that silly. Well, this is the same point when I asked Azra Rashid, he said that women's private parts are nasty and God could never be near them. And I said, well, who created them?

You know what you do it?

Next time, Jay, you know what you do? What when they say that about the private part? Says this is chapter sixty six, verse twelve. Now the Muslims are ashamed of this translation, but I'm going to give you a translation from a Muslim. Well, I don't know I can share. I'll send it to you on Skype. It says about Mary Mediam vint Imaran. Now, guys, this is not the real Mary, so don't be offended. This is not the

Yeah, but and I mean this is there's multiple examples. I've got it pulled up on the screen. It's making your point there. I agree. But what I'm saying is that I mean, if if God creates these things, like, obviously they can't be inherently unclean. That's kind of silly exactly.

But that's my point.

Jay.

If they have a problem with God becoming human and coming out of the holy concent crated woman, a blessed virgin, then that means they must have a problem with their God blowing into a woman's private.

Thing exactly, the JJ blower. And it's on the screen, by the way. Yep, So here we have another chrome. What's up there?

We go?

I'm mute, Chrome, you have to unmute to speak. I wasn't expecting ego sistem.

I was listening to your Fabian and Milner conspiracy video the second part.

Yes, really very interesting question, not religious?

How old?

Like when was the book that you're referencing with all its truths? What was before that was? Like? When was that made?

What are you talking about?

Like, so you guys are referencing sorry this.

Parble do so I'm not trying to be like that is this on the topic. We're not talking about conspiracy stuff today.

Yeah, I know, I'm just saying that. That's the kind of first full video of yours I watched.

Okay, yeah, yeah, I talked about Islam being a tool in the UK and the U. What about it?

Sure, Yeah, I'm not that's not I wasn't making to jump into it in that way.

I'm just saying I don't follow any these books. I haven't read any of them. I don't really know anything.

Okay, So what's the question.

When the book? Is there a book that you follow that you think has like the master information?

I mean, I don't know there's any one book that has master information. I mean I listed many books. The book that you're talking about is this book Milner Fabian Conspiracy by Ratio, and that he's basing a lot of his information on the book Tragian Hope, which is a gigantic geopolitical text that I've lectured through. So you may be asking about Tragian Hope. MKG, what's up?

Muslims come up, guys?

Come on, yeah, I mean, there's one hundred and thirteen fourteen people here. We got another nine hundred online. So where's all the Muslims at.

I happened too, I bought a nine hundred on mind.

Okay, And Muslims come on in here. You got here's the link to the stream to the spaces.

You're not going to get this offen. This brother is busy and I'm busy for me to be here. Come on, Muslims moving my place? Come on? Ye go ahead, Yeah, not a Muslim.

But regarding the huge job issue, I think that what's happening here, it's pretty funny. They know that they don't want to do anything that's non They want to basically throw the Salafies at you and just put you away like they don't want to deal with you guys, because it's just it's so frustrating to see what's happening. I think Sam the snow offense to you, but I don't think he.

Y'all will do it if you're there.

I think Jaya, he's already, he's already declined.

What do you mean? Yeah, no, I think Myron can get him to come. But it's you, young man. This is recorded. Actually we haven't recorded. Uh Mohammed jab said he'll only debate me if I agreed to fight him in a mixed martial arts No, I'm not lying. We've got to record it. He goes, he'll only debate me if I agree to fight him in a professional well not professional, he's amateur. But in a mixed martial arts service. So I said, Okay, tell you what, here, three debates.

I believe.

Yeah, there's a lot of lines going on here. The reason I brought that up, I know you rejected it. But this thing is evolving because people are pushing back. They don't want Jake on Myron's being very attentive to this because he's very attentive on Twitter or ex whatever. So this thing is evolving. Nothing's fixed. Anything could change, that's my belief anyway, So the two v two could turn into a one v one. It could be Daniel, it could switch, that's my opinion.

Well, I'm not going to have the same debate one on one with Daniel that I've already had one.

I'll do that. I want him, okay, But one thing, why would Muslims not want Jay Dyer, who has become known as an orthodoxygitarian philosopher, extraordinary and me known for my knowledge of Ala. I'm not trying to boast and take us and then squash us in order to vindicate us.

Not because you.

Guys are on the offensive. Every other Christian debate, there's always the defensive. It's always defending the Trinity, defending you know, Christianity, defending what's in the Old Testament. It's never offensive, it's never is there any continuity with the.

Right you saw when they attacked the Old Testament. I just go to the crowd to show that, according to Krawn, all ordered these wars in the Old Testament.

Yeah, so they're not used to this, and I think it's just a demeanor thing. They want the more traditional and that's why when.

You watch like Jay and Shabi Ali.

Shaver Ali is in this very you know two five kind of demeanor of like oh, cordial back and forth and Jays just hitting him with everything. Is like Jay Jay, if you if you, if you don't mind that, please just wait, I'm going you know, like he's just stammering, he can't handle it. I think that's part of it. And what makes me really mad is that Mohammed head job. That's his style. That's what he did to David Wood.

See, this is why might like he could give it, but he can't take it. This is very short. This is why my brother, I know their mindset and I'm willing to stoop in the mud and stuff them in their mud because I'm willing to go there and treat them accordingly.

Right.

So this is probably why he doesn't want to be because he knows he won't get away with rhetoric with me, Sam and Jay.

I don't know how close here are with James, but I'm based on the video that Daniel put out.

It seemed pretty straightforward. So James lying like, yes, brother, what straightforward? He said that he changed the dates like if you did you watch, my brother, You're gonna make me want to hang myself with my shoes. Did you watch? When I published the email on my YouTube channel comnic post because James reached out to me and I said, here are the four topics. He came back and said

And I said it to Jay.

So I'm going to waste my time and breath again on this coward because now he can call out my bluff. I said, Daniel, let's do the debates. Now, who's running? I said, debate me? Muhammads do the Bible? Why do I do that? See what I did to that Muslim. If I show them that Muhammad confirmed the Bible, they can't attack the Bible anymore because they're going to bury

I just want to make one last point and that I'll get out of your ears.

Well yeah, I know, But.

One thing I really want to emphasize here is that I feel there's a momentum. There's a big snowball happening here, that's continuously rolling.

I don't want us to lose this, That's what I'm saying. Whether whether who pulls out pulls in.

Doesn't matter, we've already said.

But I think that's very clear that I think and me as we speak, we appreciate you.

We've already agreed to whoever we don't.

So basically, I'm saying that for the last I've seen this the last five seven months, people are super chatting, fresh and fit people are super super chatting sneaker.

Why aren't you having jay On? Why actually having sam On? Why actually having jay On?

When they're ignoring, they're acting like they're they're not reading these things.

It's very strange.

So I'm just saying that the people are wanting this, and I just even if can I give you because you.

Seem like really hurt and can I come and hug you?

I mean, I want to see this, I really want to see this, and I don't want don't want this.

Can I get in a word before you? I mean, you coming off to so you deserve it because you keep wanting can I know on your side? But okay, okayorry, okay, why don't you hit the door and make sure it's it's you on the way out.

All right, we have I think we have a Muslim here. Uh, let's see.

If you know that guy's address. I want to go give him a little hug and maybe buddy bike.

Sounded like you want to, Zach, Zach Riah, what's up?

Man?

We had a Muslim? He dropped off Muslims if you like to come on, and.

Uh, Jay's got other topics he wants to get to, so come almost ms put me in by place so I can leave him to his sessions.

Zach Ryan, what's up?

Yes, sir, I just want to briefly say Sam schmou and I just heard about you today and hear that and uh yeah no, I I mean we need more of you kicking Muslims asses because they really can't seem to handle how articulate you are. And and just there is not enough content and out there where articulate Christians are refuting Islam. So I'm going to get out of here, but I just want to say you remember, I want to see more of Jay and you freaking Mike. I don't care who you're debating anytime.

J knows I'm here I got his back, not that he needs me at any time, but I remember this. I remember that seeing in the radio ice here, We're going to kick your ass all the way back to Bagdad like that.

What's up, Doc Holliday, what's up man? I'm youute, my joy?

Hi Sam?

I just got like two short questions if I can. The best question is in relation to Hell.

You know he's letting me friends all colleagues that come on spices, I multodox Christian. But in relation to the Holy Trinity, saying would they like follow the case principle? A good enough example when I questioned the Holy Trinity. If a person steps out said and says, the sun shining the little Jesus cross is the sun. The sun provide us energy, warmth, and light. But the sun is still one right, good initial example.

And the second let me comment on that. You gave an example that was used even in early Christian fathers with Jay would know more than me. But that example actually is derived from Hebrews one three. What do I mean if you look at the word Hebrew and Hebrews one three, there's a word apple gosma. Excuse me for butchering the Greek apple Gosma says, he is the radiance of God's glory, radiance the outshining of God's glory. So that imagery, that imagery itself evokes the image of the sun,

You get the point, Yeah, and I got heures one pulled up here for those that are curious, we want to see those texts there. And then we got a Muslim here, Muslim. He's just conveniently named Muslim. Makes it easier.

Watcher's gonna attack. I'm mute, all ready for the attack.

Let's go, you got I'm mute Muslim?

Hello?

Yeah, hello, hello, hello, yes, yes, hello, yes, that's before we sold.

Like, I just want to say, I have a lot I have a lot of cool pick friends.

Okay, go ahead, Okay, let's see I would just like.

We have now both the name of.

Okay, how do you stead are going to prove the torres corrupted? Here we go?

Oh you can't you please hold on listen to me. Please don't make the mistake. Are you listening you want to talk about? Please don't make the mistake of misquoting from a bus. Are you gonna make.

This set up? Wait?

You're gonna give me who.

And Ben?

Are you gonna give me somewhere?

No love?

Can you hear me?

Can you hear me?

Now? Elbodi? What centuries of the body? No?

Man?

I said, who oh Albani? You mean the twentieth century? Set?

What?

I well, I'm going the way Ja. If you don't know he's appealing Albanie. Can let me explain to Jay who you're quoting. Dude, Okay, it's.

Hard to hear what's being said.

Yeah, yeah, he's referring to chef Albani. He was an Albanian chef of the twentieth century.

So that's the head.

He is going to quote you from some guy from the twentieth century. Remember that before I know?

Right?

Yeah, that's funny. Get to that da before the time for night prayer and then you're going to have to go to sleep and then flush out saying that if you're not in the morning.

But yeah, I'm going to Okay, what's that good? I'm I'm going to yes, yes.

And I'm the American Norman and Abbie Berta and Abbi call.

One.

Have this is a hood?

Okay translate, okay, one. We had a talk in private translated guy, because I give you from your pa.

If you are going to I want to already.

Can you translate, buddy before the rapture?

Come on, we don't need you to read the whole Arabic thing. Just make the argument translated.

Guy, be patient.

Yeah. It also great when he was with go ahead translated.

If you're going to come on, dude, stop?

Does this guy translate this year? Is he waiting for? Can you translate? To the point that the pones of Israel rut a book and left the Yeah, you just embarrassed yourself, did you?

Guys?

Hear it?

Let me let me? Can I address your headeth that now it's gonna to bury you. I'm going to do your jeniza. Guys that you hear what he said? The sons of Israel wrote a book. Can I address you? Or you want to keep reciting Kuran by Barkil? The Sons of Israel left the book, wrote a book, left the Torah. Now number one, that's the sons of Israel. But I know you're not too bright. The Toro is also in the hands of the Christians and they didn't

Yeah, I've heard you make that argument too, on another h on another argument that you have with somebody else. Do you want to make your second point?

Yeah, the genius tell me, how can they abandoned the tour if they didn't have it? I'm you, Okay, I don't know why I left.

How did they leave the tour if they didn't have it?

Okay?

Yeah?

Can I get any reading?

Can you answer the read the rest of the you know, I know was insomnia, But can you I'll when when you go and get me when you when you read.

And you.

Out of your nose, are you going to answer how they left at it? They didn't have it or not?

Okay, yeah, as a certain they didn't have it. Oh they lost it? Yeah it, Oh they did, that's why. And soon I'm not going to use a Albani against you. You mentioned Albani right soon in a number forty four thirty four, and I'll get you the link, j.

Son.

Can I wish the point you want to again? Let me finish the point. And soon a classified as hassan by Albani. Your prophets said to the Jews, bring me the torah. They brought the torah. He put it on the cushion. There torah, and he said, I believe in you and him who sent you. How did they if they brought the torah to your profit? This only is dying. No, it's I'm gonna no, no, no, I'm gonna get the idea. Don't let him run stop presiding, Koran. We heard you.

Send you the link you can sent on Skype. I got skype up.

Okay, oh, I don't.

Want to hear you recite.

Let's let us bring.

Let's bring the because you said they lost it. I think the only thing you was lost is the brainsails from kissing the black stone. Because here it says they had it.

I got it pulled up. I have it pulled up.

Can you read jay? Can you read it?

From a group of Jews came and invited the Messenger of a So he visited them in their school. They said him, one of our men has committed for nication with a woman, so pronounced judgment upon them. They placed a cushion for the Messenger of Allah, who sat on it and said, bring the Torah. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion beneath him and placed the Torah on it, saying, I believe THEE and in him who revealed the Then he said, bring me one who

What's the great there?

What is it?

What is the great hawsan? That means good? Now did you hear him, Jay, because then you can engage in logically. He said, they lost the Tora, right, that's what he said. What what torah then did they bring? If it was lost? Now you can engage them logically. Go ahead, I'll just okay. And is the only one who know you're lying? Yes, that's a lie. Ja, let me l Josie, you're a liar? Can I make my point? L Josie said that there was a group of Ulama that cited this headdeth as

Yeah, I was about to Yeah this your answering isla article?

Yeah? Did you get fam?

You have it?

Is it the one about the Bible's not being corrupted?

That one?

This one is one specific. I'll get you. Okay, this guy, can I make them people see why you are Let me explain to that. The guy just lied, he said, El Albani is the only one who said Hassan. But Jane, did you hear earlier? Who did he quote Ellbani?

Right?

But now all of a sudden, Al Albani is not good enough when it says it's Hassan. But now notice his lie. He said, it's only al Albani. You're lying because it paying Josiah said. Other Muslim scholars accepted this, headef as good and use it as proof that Torah has not been corrupted. So let me get the article because we don't want to hear you. Let me get the article. Wait so people can see you're a liar.

Yeah.

Now I can't see your screen, but you're goodness, okay, where do I see your screen? Here?

On YouTube?

Oh? You're on YouTube. Okay, I'm sorry, man, I didn't know. Let me go to YouTube channel. But on the screen, do you see that part says Abu da would Yeah.

Let me make you see it. Let me make it to where everybody can see it here.

And you'll see Abudhou. Now for the context here, I been famous saying there's a group of scholars that said that the Tora has never been corrupted.

Yeah, you know.

He mentions, let me tell the people, because the Muslim is going to know who these are. He mentions Imam el Bukhari El Bukhari, the collector of the Hadiza Bukhari. He's one of those that Iban Pam says, believe that none of the books of a law can be corrupted. The tour on the Gospel have never been corrupted. Right, And then he quotes abudo this headith. What does it say if you can read it?

A group of Jewish people invited the Messenger of Allah to the house. When they came, they asked him, oh, Abu Kasim, one of our men committed anulture with a woman. What is your judgment against him? So they placed a pillow and asked the Messenger of Allah to set on it. The messenger of all oppursuit to say, bring me the torah. When they brought it, he removed the pillow from underneath him and placed the tour on it and said, I

And then I'll notice what it says right after that? What did they say?

The scholar said, if the tora was corrupted, he would not have placed it on the pillow, and he would not have said I believed in you and the one who revealed you.

Did you catch that?

Jay?

Yep?

Scholars plural who accepted this narration as authenticness prove that the tour is not corrupt. Why is he lying?

Well, it seems to change based on what they need at the time. The argument seemed to change based on what they need to do at the time.

So you lied now now unless he has a better argument, your arguments are pathetic and weak, like yourn.

So is he there?

Do you want to come back and speak?

Yeah, So don't play anymore. He left because you're going to embarrass all on his messenger. See the whole your entire religion is weak, Dave, not just your ideas. Any other Muslim want to come and put me in my place now if you haven't no one else let me. Don't want you want me to wrap it up for you, brother, because.

I don't know.

Well, we got a couple more people. See if there's uscis go ahead.

Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm Muslim, but I did just have a couple of questions for I Sam related to a topic. Yess the topic.

Is Islam with Sam right now, so you can ask me those questions about that stuff later. Witness, did you want to talk to Go ahead?

Just want to make sure it. Jay's here to discuss and debate with Catholics the difference Bee, they worth took Catholic. I'm here to help him with Islam, so keep.

It on his slam.

Go ahead. I'm mute, Witness. Do you want to U mute? Witness? Last chance? I'm mute. We're moving on.

Yeah, No, I was just wanting to understand what gentleman was saying as far as Islam goes, like, what his position was.

The Muslim the guy that came up right now a couple minutes ago. Yeah, okay. He was trying to say, there are hadiths, hadith are narrations attributed Mohammed. That's Momma said that Torah has corrupted. It's not uncorrupt, and he quoted a haditha actually backfired because the haditha that he cited he said that the children of Israel wrote a book and abandoned the Torah. Notice he didn't say they corupted a Torah. They replaced the Torah and followed a

I practiced and study all religious I practiced is I believe Prophet Mohammad pieces on him, said that.

It's the grammar that was.

Torah is.

Not listening. You said, you don't you practice origins. Then he said, Prophet Muhammad saladdressing me upon him, why are you praying for him?

Are you there?

Yeah? Because you said can you talk to soul religions? But you said, Prophet Mohammed Salary, you can keep interrupting me because I don't because you just like you just pray for Mohammed. So you're a Muslim, right, I pray for everybody. So Mohammad fulfilled God. Are you Christian or are you Jewish? What are you?

Because Mohammad, prophet Muhammad, was the only human beings that actually fulfill the Covenant that's in the Torah.

Okay, well, that's ignorance of the Torah to it has been corrupt. Where's the proof of that. Where's the proof of that? Where's your proof of that? Where's your proof of that? Where's your proof of it? Saying it's true is not argument? Where's your proof of that?

Okay? So you follow Prophet Mohammad, Salad dressing be upon him. You follow Mohammads you know I'm not going to follow him.

You said, he said, yes.

Said Abraham.

Abraham's religion is come from to the DoD dodgeball.

Player, stop dodging. Do you follow Mohammed?

Yes or no?

Problem? Then your prophets said the Bible is uncrupt. You said it's been changed. So that means you said, Momma is a liar and he's in the pitovel. So make up your mind.

No, I'm not saying that.

I'm saying that to Torah and all the Christian Bibles. They've had definitely, especially going back to the Torah.

Are.

Does the does the Koran say that it's all corrupted?

Where's your argument for that prefix? So you're just shouting, no argument, no idea.

What they're uttering is actually.

Quantum physics.

Quantum physics.

If you're going to be the person, this is a world prophet.

This, This guy's insane. He's talking about quantum physics. We're moving on. Did you want to say something again? Muslim in your back? What's up?

Yeah?

Your hot deth the hard death guy's back, what's up?

Yeah, I'm you Yeah. Address even Thames saying you're a.

Liar because you don't let him reply. That's why you just yap and you try to just read the hadith NonStop in the Koran. We want to we want your replies to the arguments.

Yep, the argument. Even Thilliams said that a group of scholars accepted sound and use it as proof that the tour has not changed. So give me another argument that the tour has changed. I did have a yeah, let me.

Okay, No, we gonna understand what you're saying. Man, Prince, what's up? I'm you.

Hi?

This is Princess Hannah, daughter of the Chosen People.

Okay, you have you have an argument or listen. The topics are Islam. You're not Muslim, right, I'm not Muslim? But okay, well the argument is about Islam, not Jewish suss Keith, what's up, Keith?

I don't know. That sounds like the must.

All right, all right, he can't connect. We'll try somebody else. Seth, what's up? We're not looking for uh uh Lutherans, so I'm not trying to be rude to you, Seth, but it's not Lutheran hour. Uh email, what's up? Email? Go ahead? Email?

All right, come bye, guys, Come on, Muslims.

They can't. They're having a hard time connectings. So I'm gonna I'm moving on. Let's see. I don't know. Sometimes if they're on cell phone, it's just hard for them to connect to Twitter space. What's up?

Man?

Go ahead, I'm mute. Gott I'm mute, man, Seth, I'm mute.

That isn't that doesn't even sound like I'm a But anyway, most of them are come on, are you?

Yeah?

Is it Twitter aracking up because of the Trump or something?

It could be Yeah, it could be that. Johnny do you want to try again? What's up?

Oah?

Hello?

Oh, I wanted to ask as well about I was watching a video on sam where he was talking about the muta muta.

Yeah, I wanted to ask if.

They're like evidence of that, like yes, it didn't lead to like more conquests against Christians nations.

Mutah, this is the problem. You're going to have. The largest branch of Islam are Sunni Muslims, and in Sunni Islamic tradition, that's let me explain what zoji mutah is for people don't know. It's pleasure marriages. Let me explain for everyone, because you have an idea, but many people don't know what it is. In the Sunni tradition and the shi On tradition, they both agree. They both agree on this. The Muhammad allowed his jihadis because they're at war, and I got to keep it because I got to

The Shia say no, it's still part of Islam, and.

They go around. I actually know this for a fact. They will try to find a woman I had. She had tell me this on palatalk years ago, that he had met some woman and he was in the UK, that it read to this form of marriage. He goes, I'm gonna go do mutah marriage so she al Muslims do it. The sonny say, no, it's forbidden, but the sonny have a different form of the same thing called monia. But yeah, So to answer your question, Muhammad allowed it at the beginning, but then the sonny say he canceled

So, because I also was very safe a lot of the like morality of Islam, I feel like I started to look into it once, like my friends started converting to it because in my city, I'm from Baltimore, it's a lot.

Of people converting to Islam against Baltimore.

And Philly, and they would telling me like, it's so morally sound, and I'm starting to see it's really.

Not at all.

When I my friend he went to Gail and he told me a lot of people was converting to Islam just for protection because they were very like even vicious in there.

And I was even saying, like some of the morality uh uh mesh as well with.

Like criminality, like people who are already criminals, they don't have to change.

You can extort Christians and Jews to their knowledge.

I do like and I wanted to see like with like the Jiza tags and the Demi text.

If Jay doesn't mind, I'll answer your question. I'll do so much tomorrow, God willing, because people want me to explain what's happening in the UK Chapter nine twenty nine

With sam which vers did you say, I've got the Koran?

Yeah? Man, needlass And I'm going to break this down as you saying it too. Yeah. I'll just quote it from memory because I can't, Man, I need glasses. Brother. Eventually, anyway, ninety twenty nine says, fight those who believe not in a law nor the last day. Now, let's break it down for you. Fight those who believe not in law or nor the last day. Meaning if you don't believe a law of Islam is God, nor do you believe in the last day as prescribed by Islam, then Muslims

In other words, no saggy plus and this is verree.

Chapter seventy eight, verse thirty three. You can read thirty one to thirty three, and you will be spending all eternity deflowering them all eternity.

Yeah, yeah, this is it is where did get the cause of a virgins?

They haven't so before they so regular mainstream is slum beliefs in it as well.

Well, it's in the Qur'an. They may so valorize it, spiritualize it. But the plane reading is these are maidens of pleasure. And by the way, what's interesting the word who is where you get your modern English word from?

I don't know what.

Yeah, you know, horry, you get it right. But anyway, Yeah, but now here's the thing. Now, if I say to you, hey, do you believe in that last day? Do you believe that you'll enter paradise with eternal erections deflowering virgins forever and ever and they'll go back being virginal again. If you say no, that sounds like Playboy mansion on steroids

Okay, So with the jizia tags in history, like, is there like any like uh? Leaders of Islamic Califfe's day.

All throughout that's unconducted Muslim.

Part of it.

Yes, yes, all of them. They told me he was the most just. He was known for his chivalry, chivalry, lea chivalry or whatever the hell they called it. There a bunch of stuff. Brother, Have you ever ran into Well you haven't. You have some mob bosses. There are some decent human beings. They're loved by the community. They feed the the hungry and take care of the homeless. But there's still a moai. You have to pay them protection.

Tell you what's up? Did you have a Muslim related issue? Question? Debate.

Yes, I have a question or.

Cheology of what's the difference between is I'm a.

Gunning the Christian goal because our friend, he usually perverted to big Wall and me have a conversation.

Or talk about the debates Christians and debases.

I yeah, all they argue, well, we both believe in.

The same I was like, right, well that's not obviously not Drew. So the key is here, as Muslims do not believe in the Trinity. Muslims don't believe that Allah has any sons. Jesus is the son of God. Jesus came to make us sons of God. So clearly two different gods. Jesus said, God is his father, so that's not the God of Islam, who has no sons. So that's the key difference. No trinity and no deed of Christ, no saving work of Christ, no death or resurrection of Christ.

But hey, guys, how you doing wonderful.

Hey, real quick, I wanted to first follow me kind of you know, induce myself real quick, huge fan. Been following you for a while, but I love that you're, you know, out there preaching the truth against uh, this, this religion.

I have a question.

I've been engaged with Muslims for quite a while here now on on spaces, and obviously I'm not as well versed in the Quran as as you have been.

How do you I'm sorry I didn't hear you all all the what say it again?

I said, I'm not as well versed in the Koran as as you are, obviously, but I had a question, because we get we get this a lot. Is it wrong for me to say when a Muslim says, you know, hey, we believe in you know, we believe.

In that Jesus is coming back to judge us.

Right to my understanding, if a Muslim is trying to make friends with someone who is actively committing shook, right, like that's the.

Number one, that's like the most unforgivable sin in Islam.

Yes, So if they're doing that, does that not make them, according to Islam, a bad Muslim?

That's part number one, Part number Two.

How far af.

Fetched is it to call Islam a pagan religion?

Because I in my beliefs, you know, as a Christian, I look at what they practice, I look at what they do.

There's this some rituals they do, you.

Know, they remind me of kind of what the profits of bail were doing in the Old Testament when Ezekiel was, you know, calling down fire, they were slicing their heads.

That's right.

I'm sorry, Eligi, I'm sorry, I got I got my problems to me saying yes, you know, the the uh, the paganistic you know, uh rituals that I see in Islam. I cannot help, you know, worshiping the rock, the rocket that's supposedly gonna forgive them with their sins. Why are we not as Christians able to call out Islam as a pagan religion?

And why are we scared to do it?

And I don't know, I know, I know.

Oh I know.

And that's why I love watching your videos, brother, I really do appreciate it.

Again, I'm mute out, but I'll let you take the poor I'm sorry if you want to add anything before I do, or whatever you want to do.

I mean, I mean this is I don't have any problem. You know, you're the expert subject matter expert here. What are they? What are some of the reasons why you would call Islam pagan?

Oh yeah, well, number one, my fundamental problem with Islam is the fact that what you said earlier, the God of Islam is not the God of the scriptures, not the God of the Church, the Trian God. So that's the most obvious, glaring contradiction. It claims to be the same God that sent the prophets of the Bible, sent Jesus and as followers, and it's not so that right there is a deal breaker for me. All of the kron is not the God of the Hebrew Scriptures, not

His God is my God.

No Tovias singer worships the false God. Rabbinic Judaism is a perversion of Gnostisism them you name it combined. Now with that said, so that's the number one major fundamental difference. Their God is not my God. Secondly, it's not it'steeped

I don't know.

You can correct me on the j Are you aware of any shrine built by Pagans for two gods at the same time where that so, Usually a shrine will be built for Zeus or Diana, but not both. That doesn't mean they didn't honor the other gods. But this shrine, this temple is dedicated to Zeuz. Well, the Muslim sources say the Kaba was built for Hubble Hubal Hubal was a moon deity. This is all from Muslim sources. I'm not making I've documented it from Muslim sources as well as Islamic scholars.

Today.

Hubble was the moon deity because the chief god Hubble would have a planet identified with him. This is how the Pagans work. Fertility gods and goddesses as well as astral worship, and the planets would be associated with one of the gods or goddesses. So the moon god was considered the male deity. Why sorry, I don't want to bore you guys with the details, but I'm going to show you where I'm going with this. The word for moon in arab is Almara almar is a masculine noun.

I never knew that connection. That is it's wild because you know, like I said, just kind of what I've seen. I made the connection with bail, but I never knew that there was that physical connection from these cultures.

That is shocking.

And by the way, let me add sort of how do we know it's pagan The Muslims will tell you that the Pagans would run around the kaba, circumambulate the kaba to off counterc clockwise seven times. They admit this. They also admit that the Pagans would run between the two hills sef On Morua seven times, and they would throw seven stones. That this is Muslim sources. Now here's what's interesting. As I've documented from Muslim sources, I didn't

Now do we have any Muslims that want to call it so this is not Christian time, it was not Protestant time. Zeke, thank you for that, Sam, Actually I didn't know a lot of that.

I'll send you articles later on Skype.

What's up, Zeke? I'm mute, Zeke. You want to talk, I'm mute. Faithful you want to come up?

Yeah, yeah, I just I just chimed in on this space real quick, and I'm no Muslim scholar, but damn you speak one one word of truth in ninety nine bullshit?

Right, nobody?

Look, look, look, look, I don't care what little.

Psy of your Okay, where's it wrong? What's your argument?

We worship the creator, point blank period, The one who made us is who Muslims worship?

Really call it?

You want to call it bs and try to go around.

In circles and do this and say that Muslims worship whoever made us?

How simple?

Jesus simple?

Is that argument?

Okay? Well let me answer you. You want to engage me. Jesus made you, so you worship Jesus. We don't believe in Jesus is God? No, so then that means my God is not your God.

Well, because you decided to believe that a human being is God, let me tell you if the Qur'an never showed up.

If the Qur'an never showed up.

And said that much more Jesus is not God, then maybe we could fall under that and say, hey, you know, based on the Bibles, we can't believe that Jesus is God.

But even though the Bible never.

Says that, actually, you know it says that in every chapter of John, are you where of that?

Yeah? I want to just you want to preach, You can preach, but I want to gage you. Now. You said, I believe human is God. But according to your prophet, your God is a beardless, truly haired youth who wears a red garment.

We don't where where did you find that in the Koran? Oh?

You want to just go with the Koran, so you don't follow tell me in the Koran the Quran. The Koran is the text, the Quran is the is the word of text.

Or not?

Why can't you answer the question?

Do you follow krown a own or the give give me Kuran?

I told you I'm not a scholar.

I can't sid It doesn't matter whether your scholar or not. What do you follow?

I want you to tell me in the Kuran?

Where does God tell you that he has this red roban and curly hair and all this nonsense.

Can I now bury you in your argument, because if you want to go with the Koran, how do you justify the kron? How do you know the Koran was given through Mohammed? Where does the Koran show you that the entire one hundred fourteen chapters were sent from a law and only one hundred fourteen chapters and they're recited by Muhammad? Prove that from the Koran?

He tells us that in the Koran?

Where does the kron tell you one hundred fourteen chapters make up the Koran and they were transmitted through Muhammed?

The Quran tells us that that a law spoke and he did profitable.

Where does tell you specifically.

That Muhammad never spoke? Or at the times you Mohammad mentioned in the Koran?

Not that many times? Actually?

Okay, so four times apart from those four references, how do you know and all the other times where the name of Muhammad does not appear?

You do you do realize that just this Mohammad, You do realize that Prophet Muhammad was the one narrating this Koran?

Right?

So how do you know what is the justification for that? How do you know that?

Have you, guys even read the Koran? Can you answer the question?

Have you ever read the Koran? Or you just talking?

Yes? Whenever I go to the toilet, I use the Koran and if I run law question, I'll talk.

For shame on you.

You can you answer the question?

Listen to this, Listen to this.

This is very simple.

So you can't answer. So you can't answer it. You can't ask it.

I can't answer.

You can't know that.

You guys have your mindset on something that you.

Can't answer, right, So there's no answer exactly. He just wants to talk. Go ahead. The next one, we got another Musland. What's up? Go ahead? Have you even read have you even read Bubin? Have you even read babe?

Exactly? I don't worry when I whenever I'm bored, I go to the toilet and I read the go ahead translation of my user as toilet paper. Sorry, Muslims, assume me.

I know you're upset.

Yeah, you're up? Go ahead? Oh wife?

Yeah, guys, how are Yeah?

What's up?

Yes?

Mom?

I haven't seen anyone that hell more than you, no more than Mohammed the.

Stoley King pagans to me. You know, I don't listen to you because you call me ja doesn't know what you call me? Job means I'm making right jehead like you're probably it wasn't he ignorant? He was a numi right? Yeah, you mean doesn't mean hell No, that means he's he's uneducated. So today we call people are educated jah hell meaning idrant. So the company I'm like today today? Can you get today's today?

The key?

This man? Why didn't you pray for India? Okay? What's your objection? I'm not from India, bro Okay, where are you from? I love your Actually pray for India? Okay, God Pakistan even better? But was in Pakistan part of India and you Muslim stole it like you saw most of the lands of the Yeah, you you want to talk.

You have an argument?

Yeah? If it isn't the argument like I will present it.

Yeah, he's homin on from the Okay, what's your argument?

He's a that hormone against humanity. Get to the point. Okay, if you just stop the argument, not protect me. You've been making it herman against me hill? Okay, what's your if I would make a good hominem. Then I would quote you.

I know you could. We know what's your argument?

When she took seven is just big?

Yeah, they're really good argument.

You might like this, what, Muhamma, do you write the pony seven inch poonty? They took the stones from man? I like this? You like to write the rony pony?

Man?

Why you're like this?

Jay? Why are you doing it to me?

Man?

They took the stones from anyone? Does anyone saying Temple of Doom?

Yeah, they're hurting my feelings. I'm about to lose leep tonight.

Know what's up? They took shivalinga.

Like this?

Man?

You're sure now she blandly?

You're very weary.

Don't do my landry.

T G what's up? Man?

Hello?

Yeah, yes, sir, Hello, I'm gonna collect to be in your life today. It's some months, like a few months. I'm listening to Shams Sam Sam salmons. Okay, yeah, sorry, I'm Muslim and the price God. Now it's six years and I given baptized by the Church. And because I have very hard experiences in Islam, because my father was Sunni and my mother was Shere, I have pretty much experiences in being lost in Islam and gone to the autist and seek for truth and after that finding finding Jesus.

Which let me say that your English is better than all Arabic.

So thank you very much for the first you you told the guys before me, which Allah is not our God. Yes, as you told yes about our God. And I made a post about that which in the Old Testament and New Testament, God rebins himself and names himself to Moses, Moses, Abraham and other people who ask who are asking their name as Yahua. And as we know, God is not affected by time. And from here he was able to tell them, my name is Yahoa, but you shall.

Call my name as Alah.

So yeah, if our God was all Llah, so he would tell this to other people in before in past in Old Testament, my name is Yahoa, but you shall call my name as Allah or something else. But he specifically told them my name is yohoa, and you shall call my name forever and ever by this name. So this is a sign which you can.

I give you some pushbacks so you use better arguments because I know how they're going to respond.

I am not arguing you.

I know I'm trying to help you. Your argument is not to help you, try to help you. You're young. I know you think these are good arguments. But because I've dealt the Muslims, I know how they're going to respond. So the word yahoa, that's in the Hebrew Old Testament.

Right, go ahead. I muted him.

I muted his go ahead, yeah, yeah, So that's in the Hebrew Testament because I'm trying to let you know how they're going to respond, so you can be like a chess player several moves in advance ahead of them. So the word yeahoa is in the Hebrewal Testament.

Right, I muted at him. Go ahead, you there, Sam, you can go ahead. I muted that guy because he was kept talking.

I'm sorry, I didn't know. I thought you said you.

Unmuted him, So no, no, I'm muted at him so you could talk because he kept talking.

Okay, here's the point for everyone. Yes, we know that in the Old Testament, the name that God gave is what they call the tetragrammaton. Some pronounce it yeahweah yeahaa. The only problem is the sharp Muslim will tell you, well, in the New Testament, Greek New Testament, because this is run brought up against me and other Christians, will say, when the Greek New Testament cites passages that have the divine name, they'll use the word katie us Greek for Lord.

Okay.

Now, in the Orthodox Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the official Old Testament, and Jay knows this better than me, is the septigen translation of the seventy the Greek translation of the Old Testament. Well, in the Greek translation of the Old Testament, you don't find a form of the divine name. In the Greek. It's gid use the word well like they're asked me in way Kutias kutiss All right, Gidi use Lord, meaning that a sharp Muslim if he's sharp,

Thank you. Let's say next up, do you have any more Muslims? I don't see many muslim looking. Let me see here. Let's see this guy two witness? What's up? Sounds like a total witness?

Hello?

Yeah, hi j what's up you me? Yeah?

Awesome? So my name is Andrew Samuel Posemon.

I just wanted to make the funerals.

First of all, one of your speakers talked about the fact that why we call Jesus as moon if you read geness is one, verse sixteen, or if you read Matthew four, verse sixteen, or Isaiah nine, I.

Think verse four.

Uh, that you can see that we are talking about our lovely look is lamp. Lamp as the only light that rules over the darkness.

Of the earth or the Abbees or Apron or Bagua or Malcot.

And that's why, in fust for this.

I can't understand what you're saying. I'm sorry.

Yeah, I guess he's a Persian who's maybe a convert, but yeah, he said that we call Jesus more. Does anyone call Jesus that means sly?

What's up?

Hey, guys, I just wanted to look him forth and helping Christians in general just push forward and be able to tools to combat because I've had trouble in the past with Muslims.

Strength express my path and you know, watching you and learning from you has really helped. So thank you and sorry, I'm out of Muslim.

Too, I appreciate that.

Sorry for God.

Please, So Jay, if you have no muscles. Brother, I'll let you get to you. Maybe you want to discuss with Protestants and Catholics. I'll let you be.

I'm probably gonna call it a night. I mean, I thank you for coming on. I appreciate it. I've been going. We've been going for uh yeah, about three hours, so I appreciate that.

Sam, thank you anytime. Brother, I got you back. When it comes to Slim set up that two for two brother.

Yeah, we're just waiting on who they want, all right, brother, brother, thank you you too.

Man.

Everybody that's Sam Shumun you can call him over on Shimunian channel on YouTube. I'll link his channel here in a little bit. Let's see we get some super chats. I want to remind everybody that we have a show sponsor, which is Chalk dot com, c cho q dot com, Helward at to chalk dot com. Right now, use go to J fifty to get fifty excuse me, J forty four life you forty four percent off those great products over there at Chalk Neo Gypsy three dollars. Does the