Welcome everybody to the Journey Conversations with publisher Chris Milligan. I am your co host Adam otherwise known as aw Finnigan. Today we will be talking to Jay Dyer. Jay Dyer is an author, comedian, and TV presenter known for his analysis of Hollywood, geopolitics, and culture, and co writer for
the Sam Hide Show. His graduate work focused on psychological warfare and film, and he is the author of two books, Esoteric Hollywood one and two, with a third coming out, and the co creator and co host of the television show Hollywood Decoded. He has been featured on numerous popular shows and podcasts and in debates with some of the world's top debaters, and a fill in host for some of the largest US radio shows. And now you're in. Now your host, Publisher Chris Milligan.
Thank you Adam very very much, and thank you Jay for spending some time with us here. You know, these are interesting times, to say the least. You know, a lot going on, a lot to look at. And you know, I guess I didn't realize your dissertation was about psychological warfare, because you know, that's been one of a very main interests of mine ever since my daddy and a professor took me in a room and blew my mind, told me stuff that it took me twenty years to understand,
but led me on an interesting path. So, Jake, psychological warfare. What got you interested in psychological warfare?
I didn't know what that was until probably college. I remember I'd watched a lot of movies that I liked growing up in high school. And I remember, you know, enjoying Oliver Stone films and you know, stuff like that, and conspiracy movies like Vic Donner's Conspiracy Theory with Mel Gibson.
And I remember when I got to college, I took some classes on the connection between Hollywood and the history of Hollywood, some film classes as well as straight up history classes, and I remember that coming up in some of the classes. And I remember somehow I got a hold of one of the Trying Day books back when I was an undergrad, and I remember reading Sutton's You published Sutton Skull and Bones book, and I remember you published the Lavenda trilogy, and I got a hold of
that trilogy. Somebody bought me that, I think for my birthday, and I read that whole trilogy and I thought, this is this is crazy, this is wild. So that got me interested in psychological warfare. And at the same time, I was taking these you know, college classes, and I had a professor who was an old old school leftist. Uh he was a history professor, and he told he taught us a lot about uh CIA operations, Latin South America, that kind of stuff. So that was kind of my
introduction was undergrad college. I didn't I still you know, I don't consider myself an expert, but that got me interested in just this whole domain of the overlap of what the military and what intelligence agencies and what corporations
are interested in. And then you've got this other realm over here of you know, movies and Hollywood and even fiction writers, British intelligence fiction writers they did the same stuff where they would you know, put their some of the some of the elements of their operations into the novels that they wrote. So that was what got me interested, was just a combination of books and uh, you know, some of your materials that you had published back in the day, and college classes and movies.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean psychological warfare comes from the German term meaning you know warld world view warfare in other words, you want to get people in, you know, invested into your worldview and different things. And we've had this, you know, geopolitical things have been going on well before we were all born, you know, and now it's very
interesting too. You know. I had the the executive producer of twenty four, you know, call me up one day and say, hey, you know, I think that our you know, this series is being used to propagandize the American people. I mean, those were his words to me. And and he, you know, he had felt that, and so he went out on the internet and started looking around and he found a bunch of our books and and so you know,
he tried to make him into movies and he was stopped. Okay, I mean, I'll tell just a little bit of the story. I mean he called me up one time and you know, he said he was being chased around town by a white suv and he couldn't he couldn't shake it, and he was this guy was driving a Ferrari. Another time, he calls me up and says, you know, we've got to redo all of our banking things because most of their money was coming from a Mexican national and so
because of some laws. They had to really change it, but they kept on working on these books. Michael Rupert walked into their office and said, you can't make these movies. And we hadn't even talked about it, okay, and says, you got to make a movie about me? Okay, Rupert. And then and then he finally calls me up one day and says, you know, well, another time he called me up and says, they're trying to get me fired. They're saying that, you know, I'm out on sunset that
selling OxyContin at night. My boss knows that's not true. So they kept on working on him. Finally he calls me up and says, well, I've got to go on a sabbatical for two weeks. And I say, okay, what's going on? He says, somebody met his wife on a street corner and said, you know, if you don't stop what you're doing, we're going to kill your husband. And then you what are your children going to do? Okay?
And I said okay. And he went on a sabbatical and called me back up in about two weeks and said, well, I guess we're just making Will Ferrell movies. So obviously there are some people that have some vested interest on what comes out from Hollywood and what comes out from Hollywood, Jay.
A lot of propaganda. I think you summed it up right there. I didn't, of course, you know, most of us didn't know this growing up. I know you had an oss you know, father or is there father or grandfather, I don't remember what it was.
It was father. He was C O I O S S G C I A.
Did you You probably knew a lot of this before everybody else.
I would assume, well, I had an inkling. I mean, he told me about his intelligence career and and he basically he gave me some information that that led me to look into the subject I call C I A drugs, which then led you to all kinds of different places because those people were involved in a lot of the corruption.
Right.
Yeah, I've had a similar situation. I know this is not on the topic of the question, but my uncle had a really interesting career. He was an Air Force
intelligence person. And my family didn't tell me this until way later on, and they told me all this stuff he was involved in, which I had an inkling of that too, but they didn't tell me until I was much older about I think I was about age thirty five before they told me all that, but there was some you know, similar things there with I don't know about drugs, but there was definitely some operations that were being done that he did in the Cold War out
of Turkey in regard to the Soviets. But regardless, when you go back into the forties and the fifties, one thing I learned more recently that I think is really fascinating is a lot of these A list people were recruited into the OSS, especially you know, famous Hollywood people working in different capacities and doing different things with the OSS, and you then obviously into the CIA as well. So when I learned that, that kind of shocked me. I was kind of surprised by that. And that's maybe just
one element of the angle of the propaganda. You know, you've got people within Hollywood spying on each other during World War Two and then into the Cold War, and then you've got people at the production level working with people from the OSS and CIA as well.
The OSS help.
For example, John Ford, if I recall, win some of his awards, he would not have won those awards if he had not had such such help from the OSS. So that's an element of excuse me, a propaganda that was going on there. I believe it was Burnet's that said Hollywood is the greatest engine of propaganda the world's ever seen. And then of course you've got a lot
of influence from foreign countries. We could imagine what foreign countries Israel, in other countries as we get into the Cold War, they have a lot of influence in Hollywood, especially when it comes to productions about the Cold War. I'm not pro Communist or Soviet, but I definitely think
there was exaggeration going on. So, you know, World War Two, you've got Corda Circle, You've got Hitchcock, You've got those guys putting out propaganda, You've got Cold War, You've got you know, CIA putting out consulting on movies, recruiting actors. You know, there's no end to the propaganda. And corporations
as well. The corporations of course, have a lot of influence and interest as we get closer to you know, where we are now, more so maybe than governments, even determining what themes films will will have, what narratives, what
product placement. You know, think of something like the CIA consulting on Ben Affleck's Argo, which you know won the award, the Academy Award that year, and that was of course based on this CIA operation to have a fake movie being filmed during the nineteen to what is seventy nine hostage crisis in Iran. So these are just windows into you know, the propaganda at different levels that we're talking about.
Right. So now it's it called Lookout that studio that was up at the top of the canyon, and you know, that was an obvious facility that they were using to produce and then also to uh, you know, integrate the
Hollywood people in there. And I mean, you know, it's very interesting that you know, Ronald Reagan all the like the training films for for World War two and whatnot, he was basically the narrator for those, okay, which gave his voice, you know, into a lot of people, so they would trust him in blat of blah blah blah. And then you had, you know, for the CIA films, who was the narrator for that but Moses Heston you
know and whatnot. So what do you know about that facility and what is it doing today?
Yeah? Of course, just from an artistic perspective I enjoy. I don't think I've ever watched a Ronald Reagan movie, but I definitely enjoyed a lot of those Trump Hess movies growing up up. But I wouldn't be surprised, you know. I think he was friends with doctor Jillian West, which is an odd connection, but I think, you know, Charlton Hesson probably had some of those ties, shall we say,
as do many A listers still to this day. But yeah, you're talking about Lookout Mountain Studios, which was if you drive up Wonderland Avenue up into like if you're coming from LA and you drive up into Tepanga Canyon, you can go up up that route and you get up
to the very top. We've gone up there many times since I wrote the first book, and you can still see some of the elements of the old Air Force stuff that the different owners I think has passed from various Hollywood celebrities have owned this facility now, the last being Jared Ledo. There's still some of the old Air Force memorabilia there that you can see over his fence. I wasn't stalking him, right, but you can peek over the fence. You can peek over the fence and see
like some of the old Air Force stuff there. But yeah, this was the most cutting edge studio of its time back in fifties and sixties, and all of these Hollywood executives had access to it. Walt Disney, starlet's like Merilyn Monroe could go there. We don't even know all the films that they did produce there, what always produced there, but some of the things that have come out you can still find on YouTube that we have some of
the propaganda movies that Jimmy Stewart did. He boy did all of the voiceovers he's in a lot of the those were pro FBI type films. He actually started in a few of those FBI propaganda films back in the day.
So yeah, I mean, that's that's a great one to demonstrate just this key tie in between corporations and Hollywood, the studio system, the deep state government system, and you know what they're churning out, and you know, you've got basically the top people at the time driving up here to that and then driving back to you know, the other studios. So it's a big complex that's all intertwined. And that's one of the key ways to prove that right now.
Uh, you know, you you do a lot of uh explot well, I don't know about expose a's, but expositions I would say about about different movies in your in your books. And you know one thing that you know, just I like movies, you know, I thought they were great. You know, they'd be on TV. You know, you'd watch them and different things. And and one thing that I started thinking about, you know, because when you look at Hollywood and la I mean, there's always been a lot
of cults and interesting people around there. And you know, when you've got when you're making a movie and you're making a movie about some of these occult and you know, devil type themes, it seems to me that, you know, the whole movie set becomes to a certain extent a place to have rituals and to do quote unquote workings when they're doing these movies. Do you have any thoughts about that?
Absolutely?
I think I think it might have been Sensor Force's trilogy where I first heard that idea, or maybe it was some other article somebody had written a long time ago to remember, But when you look into the way that people who do ritual magic, who are interested in that subject matter when they see their actions or even their artwork. Even something like a film could be seen as a ritual action. So you're putting your will and your intention out there into the world through this product
to try to get your worldview accepted. You mentioned, you know, velten schungskriga worldview warfare earlier. That's kind of what is going on from a propaganda perspective with movies. But also you could be trying to put out your worldview in
a more symbolic occult way like you're talking about. And so the first chapter or section of the third book, I call that Hollywood is Megas or magician, because there's a great there's a classic novel that's in the canon and Western Canadon literature called The Megas by John Fowls, and he's famous because he wrote a really well known.
Serial killer story.
But The Vegas is interesting because you have this character who's kind of an Aristotle of Nassas billionaire guy who kind of can engineer everything in regard to this one guy's life that he's kind of messing with. So he's this wealthy guy who has nothing else to do other than to kind of mess with young idiotic guys and bring them to your billionaire island and sort of tweak their worldview and see what you can get them to believe and not believe. And so I said, you know
that character. I think his name is a Conchiese. He's kind of an image of the way Hollywood works. You, Hollywood's is the same kind of a thing, where it's kind of giving us this world you throughout all these stories, a lot of propaganda, a lot of bad messages, some good messages here and there slipped through, but probably fewer
good than bad. But yeah, I think you also have directors, to be more precise, who are explicitly into ritual magic, who you have the idea that they're actually participating in ritual workings. Somebody like Darren Aronofsky, who pretty clearly is into Kabala. Kubrick, you could debate that. I've had some discussions with Vivian and his daughter, and I keep trying to get her to come to an interview, but she's real hesitant to do that. But I think that clearly
Kubrick included some of these themes. How serious he took any of that is up for debate. But other directors are more well known. I think David Lynch definitely included Tibetan Buddhist themes. You know, he included transital meditation themes. So in those examples, it's clear. More recently, Robert Eggers that directed The Witch and those fraw two, I mean, I think he's pretty clearly a Crollian of some kind. So yeah, that's what's going on at multiple levels once again.
Right, I love that whole like vampire thing that became really big.
Yeah, all occult things, aren't you know. You know, it's a it's a thing like a gun. I mean, it's not you know, evil or bad. It's what it's what people do with it because it is it is a reality of what uh you know, happens in our in our life. And I'd like to just go to a different place here just for a little bit. I'd like
to talk about advertisements that we see on TV. Okay, because I think that's one of the main ways that they're radicalizing people and getting people into camps, and one of the main ways that they're messing with us is advertisements on TV. Do you have any thoughts about that?
You know, it's a good one that I didn't really cover. You know, I focused on sort of major films, TV shows and some independent films and B movies. But yeah, I think that's actually a good overlooked point at music industry too, music videos, which are not as popular as it used to be. But you know, it's funny. I got rid of quote TV probably fifteen to twenty years ago. I just got rid of it, and so I don't see a whole lot of TV. Yeah, like when I go over to somebody's house or if we're eating at
a restaurant, Well, that's really annoys me too. You can't go to a restaurant now without TVs everywhere, which is that to me is dystopian. We should be able to have a meal without having to watch you know, sports and ads. So I do see ads here and there. And one thing I noticed, at least in the last ten years is pharmaceutical ads everywhere. I mean, it's just like you're just you can't even turn the channel without you seeing just in you know, constant pharmaceutical, which to
me is very brave, New world, very dystopian. The idea that there's a pill for every single, you know, thing going on in your life. I think we're meant to have depression at times in life. We're meant to have bad experiences that you know, helps balance out with the good experiences. So the idea that you should medicate yourself at all times to have no experiences is kind of
you know, uh, kind of crazy to me. But you know, advertisements also have a lot of odd themes of men are usually in this sort of women role, or they're subservient, the women are always bossing the men around. The men are all idiots, they're all Homer Simpson, they're all you know, Albundi type characters who are just total idiots. Advertisements probably well, I mean they just kind of further the whole idea
of just endless, infinite, you know, consumption and consumerism. So I think you're absolutely right that advertisements are overlooked and ads to.
A lot of the directors who.
Became kind of prominent directors, many of them began with advertisements. David Fincher, I think he went from ads and music videos to being you know, one of the top sort of directors that it's pretty nihilistic. Most of his movies are pretty dark and nihilistic. So yeah, that's a good point, Chris, I should have I should have.
And then and then they also got into things like subliminal messaging. I remember that by Jim Keith. What was that book Jim Keith put that book out about mind control I have over here.
Yeah, yeah, but they did mass control, mask control that.
Right, right, yeah, right, and it just you know, it's part of the whole toxic soup. Okay. But then movies, you know, I mean it's like you know, the the quote unquote powers that be have you know, tried to stop me many times and try to put us out of business because you know, they don't like us publishing books. But you know, it's hard to stop stubborn people sometimes. And then also but when it gets to movies, they move in with the big guns and stop it because
everybody goes to the movies. I mean, you know, we have kids and we try and raise them and whatnot, but you know, uh, they listen to the movies more than they listen to the parents most of the times. And then you know, you'll see how the movies take a life of their own in the society where people are relating what's going on in the world to the movies, you know, and and and so they're making you know.
So it's it's really quite a toxic soup. So Adam, you know what what what are your thoughts and all of this and comments.
Yeah, it's like I I'm like him. I got rid of my TV a while back, and I started I just read all the time, like I love books, and you know, talking to other people, it's just it became apparent to me people are so used to having the TV and stuff. It's that a lot of people can hardly even read a page. They're just like, oh, I don't you know. It's like we've been really just kind of dumbed down and almost like a trance. The TV kind of puts them into a trance. And yeah, I
just said, it's it's it's something else. I mean I like movies though, you know, I do watch movies and stuff. It's just I have a TV here, but it's never on, like I've never I.
Barely even use it.
I'm always reading and I keep a long list of every book I read. I keep and that's my way. But yeah, some people just.
Well, yeah, my daddy, my daddy told me, he said, you know, read it all, so you know, I look at it now. I mean, I'll watch the news from the from the different uh you know, outlets to see what they're saying, because you know, he told me, you learn so much from missing disinformation about where they're trying to send you and why, and then what they're not
telling you too. You know, So Jefferson had he said, you know, he did a little bit more flowery, but basically, you know, you have to do your homework because if you don't do your homework, good chance you're going to be played, you know, and and and whatnot. So, uh, now, Jay, you came from a philosophy background to you know, you studied a lot of philosophy in college. What what can we learn from philosophy? Why should we care about philosophy? What does it mean to today's world?
That's a good question.
So the key issue of philosophy is what is the meaning of life?
What is the examined life? Right?
So, if you go back to Socrates and Plato, Socrates made a lot of people mad in Athens because he went around asking questions. And the classic dialogue is Plato's Apology, which is about this story of Socrates walking around and asking everybody, you know, what's the meaning of this? Why
are you doing this? What's the meaning of life? And he went to all the different people in Athens, including politicians and craftsmen and tradesmen, and everybody has the same answer that whatever they're interested in or whatever they do is the answer to life, and that's the meaning of everything. So the politician, of course, says, well, life is politics, and then the you know, the tradesmen says, well, life is about you know, your craft and your your trade.
And eventually it goes to the oracle Delphi and says, you know, who's the wisest man? And the oracle says you are, and he says, well, why am I the wisest man? I don't know anything. And the point was that, well, you're the wisest man because you ask the questions why.
Right.
So one of the things that philosophy does, it's sort of its essence, is getting us to ask why is this happening?
What is this? What's the meaning of life? The examined life.
As Socrates says, as Plato says, is the only life worth living. So that's the basics. And then as you get into more advanced modern types of philosophy, you get the idea of critical thinking and logic and analysis which points out things that don't make sense, contradictions. So, although we might not think that philosophy has much to do with advertising or propaganda, if we recognize fallacious argument's bad argument,
and they help us to identify the propaganda. For example, go back to weapons of mass destruction, the story, for example, of that propaganda firm that Bush Senior was involved in that had the Iraqi ambassador daughter go up there and say that he's doing.
The babies out of the incubators.
So we got to go to war because supposedly there's weapons of mass destruction, balls of gas that Saddam has and he's throwing babies out of incubators. Well, on the surface of it, it's kind of absurd. Why would Saddam walk through and just throw babies out of incuba? It
doesn't make any sense. And then of course, if we knew a little bit of the history, we'd know that, well, Saddam has a history of being trained by the CIA, and he's pictured in Buddies with Rumsfeld the Pentagon, So it's like we would know that there's something about that doesn't make any sense, and it's it's an absurd story on its face. And then we would have we'd be able to notice contradictions in the narrative, well, why would we be friends with Saddam or why would we be
friends with the Mujahadin? And then suddenly there are enemies the next day, So something doesn't make sense there, something else is going on. And philosophy just helps you kind of at a really basic level, use critical thinking to not be duped by advertising tricks or propaganda which plays on your emotions. Right, you hear this story of babies are.
Thrown out of.
We Got to Go after saying they did the same thing with a sad right Asad is gassing his own people, and the BBC puts out this story and later, oh, it turns out that BBC story wasn't true. And so you know, wartime propaganda always utilizes these really hyped up emotional sensational with stories, and philosophy could help recognize how
that doesn't make sense. And movies push the propaganda. They pushed the pull on your heartstrings through the stories, and you identify the bad guys through these through these movies that unknowingly propagandizes you against you know, X, Y Z enemy.
I would say that philosophy kind of also helps you put yourself in your own story, kind of like we've been talking about with those round tables about putting yourself in your own story, writing your own story for your life. And philosophy helps, I guess, helps you gravitate to where you kind of need to be at.
Right, and so it in conspiracy literature, h you know, there's a lot of talk about Hegel and and you know they think Hegel is a bad guy, and you know Hegel was really just you know, trying to explain things, and can you can you talk about Hegel a little bit so people can hopefully understand a little bit more rather than just going for a quick bullet point.
Yeah.
I think with most with most philosophers, there's good and bad pros and con you know, with Plato, he could be used for the idea of the individual coming to enlightenment through rational you know, process and thinking and dialectics. And it could also be turned into the Plato's Republic becoming some kind of proto you know, communists, super state.
You know, philosophers can be used in different ways. Hegel is very dense, it's very abstract, it's very idealistic, not in the sense of an idealistic, revolutionary, but idealistic in the sense of everything that exists is mind, geist or idea or spirit, as he says, So he's somewhat similar to Plato. But one of the things that he wanted to do was reconcile the idea of change or process versus everything being in a pure, static, immobile sense that
Plato thought about the real world or the forms. So for Plato, this is a changing, fluctuating world, and the real world is the ideal realm of the forms. So Hegel has to be understood in a context of wanting to reconcile and fix some of what he saw as
old philosophical problems that were still lingering. So if Hegel thinks that dialectical process in terms of the world itself, helps to explain where the world is going, what's happening, how everything is mind or spirit at root, and in his mind in some way, eventually everything would sort of culminate into some sort of what he called an omega point, which is some kind of everything becoming one. It's kind
of mystical, it's kind of unclear. But Hegel's used then by people like Carl Marx who just sort of flips Hegel and gets rid of all the spirit geist stuff and says, Hegel's right about all the stuff he's talking about about dialectics furthering the whole process of the world moving towards its purpose. But it's not spirit and all this mystical mombo jumbo. It's just matter in motion. So that's where Marx takes Hegel and turns him on his head.
But at root, Hegel is just a kind of process philosophy or theology that is rooted ultimately in elements of Hermeticism and Kabbala' that's actually been demonstrated now in some recent academic literature.
Who are Hegel historians and philosophers?
So that's the process philosophy that So Hegel's philosophy is a bunch of little triangles where thesis and antithesis come together to produce a higher order of synthesis, which is a more true revelation than the previous partial knowledge. Right, So that might be a little abstract, but that's really the whole Hegelian system. And Hegel doesn't just think that you or I interacting right now in that way is
further into dialectic. Everything in the world is operating to further this dialectic towards ultimate synthesis at some future endpoint in time. Thus, Hegel could be used by a Nietzschean, he could be used by a communist, He could be used by a transhumanist. Any of these philosophies could sort of take that and say, hey, this is our end goal.
I mean the Reich.
Some of the philosophers of the Reich liked the idea of Hegel, and they said, hey, what Hegel's saying is our Reich is the end goal of history. Marx could say the you know, whither away the state is the end.
Goal of history. So he could be used by various.
People right right now. I don't know rightly or wrongly, but I look at a dialectic basically as one of our failed safe devices that we have all as a group, because you know, I'll say some things I know are true about secret societies, drug running and intelligence agencies. And now I'll find somebody that's a spook saying something you know a little bit more outrageous. He'll put lives in it. Because by controlling the extremes, you control the middle, yes,
and whatnot. So thank you, I really appreciate all this talk about philosophy. It always helps me to understand things and U. But let's get back to your books. Esthetary Hollywood one, Esthetary Hollywood two, and the soon to be when I come out Esotery Hollywood three. And now how do people find you? And and what all are you doing out there? You have some pot you do interviews and whatnot. How do people find you and whatnot?
Yeah, I'm on the major social media outlets except for Facebook. I'm not a huge fan of Facebook, so I kind of I mean, there's still a page there, but I don't really pay much attention to it.
I'll update it every now and then.
Mostly I'm on YouTube now, and that's kind of the biggest platform, so I do live streams and videos almost every day, maybe every other day. That kind of became the main outlet for me. But I'm also on Instagram and I'm on Twitter, so people can find me on all those places, and now TikTok as well. But yeah, so you can find me there. You can get access to, you know, the previous books in the shop at my
website jaysonalysis dot com. All my stuff is there, are all the archived lectures and interviews and talks the last ten years or so, and the shop you have to click on the shop tab and you get the two st CALLAB one and two. But yeah, I mean it's been a it's been a wild ride for the last you know, eleven or almost almost ten years. The first one came out in twenty sixteen, so we're nine years
out of Callywood one. I'm really thankful to you for you know, seeing the potential of that and and you know, publishing that. I think it went. It went for a great run. And then Part two was great as well. It was a little bit different. So one we we focused on a lot of the directors like Kubrick, Hitchcocks, Bilberg, so the main players in terms of directors.
And then in part.
Two it was more thematic, where I talked about organized crime and I talked about mafia, you know, we talked about intelligence agencies in Hollywood, of geoengineering, even how that's portrayed in film. And then this more recently Part three will be focusing on some of the same material. But I decided to divide it up into areas that I never really got to in the first two that were really important. So we've got comic books. I had so many people messaging and dming over the lead years. Hey,
you're not covering comic book movies. Those are really big, those really important, and you know, comic book films took over Hollywood maybe for the last twenty years. When it comes to the blockbusters Marvel films. I liked comic books when I was a kid. I'm not not a huge comicbood fan anymore as an adult, but for whatever reason, this just took over, and then Disney bought out Marvel, so it's you know, it's just a massive thing. And
they're pretty heavy with propaganda. I would say back in the two thousands they were a little more revelatory in terms of good, good ideas, and then as we got you know, more and more up to where we are now, they're pretty much almost unwatchable.
So I haven't watched a lot of the.
More recent, you know, three or four years of comic book movies, but I did watch throughout the twentys and twenty tens most of them. So I try to pick out some of the ones that were really interesting, including the Christopher Nolan films. I think he's a pretty good director hit and miss when it comes to some of them, but you know, he has a lot of union themes that we highlight in his Batman trilogy.
And then we go into.
Dystopian films that I never got to, Mad Max, that kind of stuff, and then a numbering archetype I wanted to cover that not a lot of people have noticed except for some of my friends that the SYSA podcast, they have highlighted this theme of this sort of dark goddess that's emerging through a lot of films in the
last twenty or thirty years. So we did a whole section on that, the whole section on independent and B movies that I thought were worth people's viewing if they were interested in this idea of truth in B movies, and then Hollywood Alchemy, horror Trauma that was I wanted
to hit some of the classics. Electory Detective which was pretty dark, had obvious you know, Krollian satanic cult themes there, and then it's some more on key propaganda in Tom Cruise's Mission Impossible stuff, all that's based on the Howard Hunt, you know, in his his background, his history, and then some elements of Hollywood spies, actors, who've been recruited into intelligence work, and then a little bit on Hollywood and
christ and how that's been portrayed in various films. I think we're kind of at the end of the old model of the studio system. I mean, you've had a lot of directors like Spielberg, you others coming out saying the old studio system is pretty much done, it's going away. Nowadays it's Apple Studios, Amazon Studios, so the tech companies are kind of buying out and taking over old Hollywood. And also, movies are a lot less popular with gen Z.
The younger people. They watch scroll TikTok all day and they play video games, so I think that they don't care as much about movies. So it's kind of synchronicity. I guess you could say that, you know, this last one that we wrote that I wrote here, well there might be more, I don't know, but you know, Part three ends up being sort of the end of at the end of the old Hollywood system. So it's apocalyptic. It's an end of the era. So I think it's a fitting kind of title.
Right right, And well, you know, I do think that they are moving some of that propaganda stuff into the video games, and so let me let me ask you a question here, what would you now you know you've gone through all this and this research, what would you tell your your your own self, you know, ten fifteen years ago, what have you learned that you know, really profoundly affected you?
I think another good question.
I think so in the first series of essays, in part one, there was a lot of speculation and a lot of symbolic interpretation that it's not that it's bad, it's just a little kind of kind of speculative, shall we say. And I think nowadays I would have found it a lot more interesting to have written more about. But you know, at the same time, there wasn't a whole you know, ten fifteen years ago, there was even less information out about people in Hollywood and their their
ties to intelligence. I would have focused more on some of the stuff that that I put towards the end of this third book, had I known about it. I think that's more interesting, maybe even than some of the propaganda in the films.
But I think that comes with age two.
You get a little more mature, you're more interested in you know, well, it's actually more interesting that you know, Julia Child's working with the OSS or you know, somebody like Jimmy Stewart, you know, working for the FBI. That's a little more interesting than you know, this movie over here with this symbol over here, which is not that that's not interesting, It's just I would have focused more on that. I would have looked more at, you know,
modern people. You know, I think some of these big some of these big A listers themselves have been perhaps doing you know, I think people like Sean Penn or people like George Clooney, you know, those kind of a list people could have been more interesting as a focal point even back then if I'd known about it, maybe some of the production companies, some of the actual operations that were done and apparently about using movies as covers, that could have been I think a better approach, less
of the speculation.
I guess.
Yeah. Well, you know, somebody comes up and tugs on people's patriotic heartstrings, and you know you can get them to do most anything. Adam, you have any last thoughts here about this interview?
This was a really this is a great time. Hopefully maybe I can get you on Try and Day Treasures. I do a new podcast for trying day authors and stuff. Maybe down the line we.
Can do it.
Sure anytime.
Okay, well, Jay, I want to thank you very much for your time. And you know, people, if you want some education, you know, check out j on YouTube and check out his books and anything. And onwards to a better future for our children.