New Horror Movies Ep. 153: Dead Man Still Walking - 28 Years Later (2025)

Jay of the Dead's New Horror Movies presents Dead Man Still Walking with Dr. Walking Dead.

Well, hey everybody. Welcome to Dead Men Still Walking. And oh my gosh, today's episode, emphasis on still. But because this is such a monumental review, I had to bring in, you know, our podcasting godfather, the king of horror movie podcasting, Jay of the Dead. Oh, thank you so much. I have been so excited about this particular discussion to hear especially from you. I can't wait. Thank you for having me.

Like many people, I've been excited about this movie for a very long time. Very, very excited about it. But first, I wanted to mention... I don't know how our listenership is going. I appreciate everybody who's tuned in. Hello, welcome. And feel free to share or invite other people. But I realized that I tried to be clever. in the title of my podcast with this whole dead man still walking. I get it. I think people get it. I should have just called it zombie movie podcast because, you know,

That's apparently how things really work around here. So, yeah, a little bit of regret there because my podcast does not fit in to the tried and true method of podcast naming that Jay has produced. proven for everyone. So this is still officially Dead Men Still Walking, but listeners in your heart of hearts, you're welcome to think of it as zombie movie podcast. So there we go. There we go. Got that out of the way. I love that.

Wait, sit here. Sit. Auntie, what's going on? Do me, sit still, keep quiet and do not move from this spot.

But without further ado, let's finally get around to this epic film. And this is, of course, 28 years later. 28 years later. And the shocking thing to me, Jay... is to realize that this film almost is in fact 28 years later. Yeah, what the heck? I get like a zillion questions for you that probably aren't even fair, but I just, do you know why it took... Almost 28 years, Kyle. I've done some reading around. So Garland and Boyle. So folks, Alex Garland, the writer, love Alex Garland.

He's written some of my favorite films. Danny Boyle, right? This gender, gender, genre bending. He's done all kinds of different films, sci-fi and train spotting and all this stuff. They came out with 28 Days Later, you know, just... banger film that comes out in 2002 to thank you yes 2002 so 23 years ago and it really

I haven't podcast on 28 Years Later, but we're going to get to that, folks. But the point is, what they did, what Garland and Boyle did, is they took the infection film that goes back in this capacity really to Romero's crazies. I love that. I love that Romero basically reinvented both zombies and infection. And I don't think he gets enough credit for the crazies. Neat. I never thought of that. So you're saying...

Liz's headline material here. So you're saying that Romero should also be celebrated and attributed with the infection. I do, because Romero does crazies and then Cronenberg does rabid, right? And then we've got this other horror subgenre. which is infection that results not in death, but in mania and violence and stuff. That's so cool.

And so what Garland and Boyle do is they take that idea of the infected person and they make it zombie. So up until that point, it was kind of its own thing. Now I know, and listeners... we really want you to reach out on this one because this is a hotly contested point and i know that our dear friend mr gregor mortis feels very passionately about this

But is 28 Days Later a zombie movie? Well, a lot of people say no. It's just in that same ballpark as The Crazies, as Rabbit, it's about infected humans, etc. I contend that because of the complete loss of agency, because of the infectious nature, because of the apocalyptic and siege narrative associated with this kind of creature, I think we pretty much have to acknowledge it as the third

kind of major zombie and i just want to i won't get ahead of you in case you're going to go here but we even have a canonical reinforcement of this with this newest release oh yeah drop it drop it now no Well, they are referred to in 28 years later as zombies. Yes. For the first time in this franchise, we're just going to call them zombies. Which I usually don't love in a movie, but I was happy with that. Yeah, it was nice.

have that kind of definitive statement for what it's worth yes but yeah so we had a period of the the kind of possession zombie you know the sort of voodoo the the sci-fi zombie we had all that going on from 32 to 60.

And then from 68 to 2002, Zombie was pretty much the Romero style. Ray's dead, they are dead, but they're infected and they come back and they bite people and infect people, etc, etc. And then with 2002, these... guys are saying no you know what infected alive dead fast slow doesn't matter these guys are zombies and so then we started getting these hybrids like the the the dawn of the dead remake

is they move and act like 28 days later zombies but they are romero zombies because they're dead and so we get into this ambiguity I'm watching a film right now, and it's kind of emotionally heavy, so I'm doing it in episodes, called Outside. It's a Filipino zombie movie. I'll be talking about it soon.

But it's not clear if the zombies are dead or alive. There's a lot of ambiguity there, and I think that just kind of underscores the fact that we don't have these strict categories like we used to. so then when we look at 28 years later it's like no no we are very officially saying these are human beings these are living human beings who've been infected and as we'll talk about in a minute this infection has been mutating

And it has resulted in kind of the video game tradition of various kinds of zombie creatures. So it really is progressing and it really is adding to the whole thing. Now, back to your initial question. 28 weeks later came along. and garland and boyle were not directly involved i think boyle produced and that film was really picking up where 28 days later left off and i must say that i'm a big fan of that film same

Yeah, great. Because some people don't love it, love it. But I really enjoy the heart. It maintains that kind of emotional connection from 28 Days Later. It's got deep... family matter stuff, you know, sadness. And it does have one of the great helicopter scenes in any zombie movie. So really great stuff. That film ends on a little bit of a cliffhanger with the idea that the infection has made it through the channel to France.

and by the way i went through the channel this summer no zombies just making that clear for everybody but you checked i'm sure oh i i was checking i'm always checking man then what happened is

Years past. Decades past. Wait, wait, just right in here. Maybe you're going to say this. Why did we not get 28 months later? Okay, because Danny Boyle waited too long. That's Daniel. That's the dumb answer. So when asked about this, why are we doing 28 years later? Danny Boyle said, well, figured too much time has passed. We should just skip it.

now this this hurts my heart me too because i am a completionist and i'm i'm a little so some people will erroneously call themselves ocd i will accurately call myself anal retentive and i don't mind i'll embrace it But it bothers me tremendously that we've skipped a unit of measurement. Yes. And I'm sure we're going to rant and rave and rail about. The new naming convention coming in this. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well.

yeah that'll be our postscript but okay okay it really hurts my heart because i was so hoping that after the what i saw as the success of 28 weeks later we would get a 28 months later yeah of course not to be With 23 years having passed since the first film, Garland and Boyle decide we'll just cut to 28 years later. So that's frustrating. One more quick thing, though, Kyle. You know what they could do, though?

Because we are in this prequel culture where we could still have a 28 months later. We could. We could. So horror directors out there. You know what will determine that? How well this new trilogy supposedly is going to do? Correct. So my film students hate me because whenever they start feeling artistically minded, I remind them that... cinema is all about money yes and so if things go well there is the possibility for a prequel or it would be a between quill what do we call that whatever

So anyway, it's over. It's done. We have to move on with our lives. 28 years later. Yes. Garland and Boyle decide we're going to pick this back up. And we want to see what England would look like 20 years after this. Okay, I love this idea because so many zombie narratives are apocalyptic. So you get the outbreak, you get the adventure, and then you get basically the end of the world. This is an opportunity to revisit a zombie outbreak.

Many, many years later, even more time has passed than in The Walking Dead. So it's like, okay, well, what would actually, what would the world be like 28 years later? Now, we have to suspend a lot of disbelief. So, a couple of things happened right off the bat, and I'm okay with it because it's a story. You just roll with it. The first one is Boyle didn't like how...

28 weeks ended with the plague getting to mainland Europe. So at the beginning of the film, there's simply text on screen that says they fought the zombies back. Yeah. It's like an etch a sketch. little opportunity we're just gonna fix there yeah we're just gonna ignore that and we're just gonna say nah the zombie plague is contained to the british isles as i originally wanted as the original director so that's gone

Now, in interviews, he said, and I don't know if it was an early draft or a cut scene, but the idea was that once the zombies made it to Paris, they just nuked Paris. And so that could be... man there's 28 months later right they've been they've been containing the zombies in the city of paris for months and they finally realize they can't stop it so they nuke it and it ends and that movie would end the way that oppenheimer should have ended

Right? Yeah. Without the 45-minute boring part. But anyway, go ahead. Oh, come on. I know you love long denouements. But there's your movie filmmakers. There's the movie so we're just gonna skip ahead and we're gonna go 28 years later, but again issue Really? The entire civilized world knows that there are human survivors in England and the attitude is, yeah, screw them. They're on their own. We're not going to make any effort to rescue them.

So, of course, 28 weeks later was about an evacuation effort that failed. But it still seems pretty callous that we've just kind of completely ignored this country. And the infrastructure is all messed up. So it's basically the Stone Ages. Well, maybe not that far back. Maybe it's the Renaissance. But it's pretty messed up and they're pretty isolated.

And apparently, because of the risk of infection, even though the infection is lightning fast, they won't let people off the island or rescue them off of boats for fear of infection. I don't know why they couldn't institute a relatively simple quarantine procedure. and check their eyes and rescue them all but that's regardless it just doesn't work because if you do that then there's no movie that's right and i'm and i get it i get it people stop yelling and they probably would have nuked

They probably would have honestly nuked the British Isles, right? Yeah, well, I guess that was their humanity. They're like, wow, you know, there are people still alive and it's an island. So let's just leave them be. That's callous.

But I've gotten slightly ahead of myself. The film does open with a cold opening back at the initial outbreak. What did you think of that scene with the kids? Oh, yeah, I loved, loved, loved the very opening. However, Gilman and Joel disagrees with me on this. I think we should have seen a little more. I know, I know they were being tasteful. I know they didn't want to offend people, but I think we should have seen some kids get ripped up by the infected.

No, I mean, we all know how much you hate children. I know. And so... But as hardcore as these films are, they have heart, man. They're not going to murder the kids on the screen. But they did get murdered. They did get murdered. It's implied, and I think the implication is pretty darn horrifying. Yeah.

Yes, it is. Yes. And the fact that they layer it with Teletubby action, which everybody's creeped out by in the first place. I think that's hilarious. No, I thought it was a really great kind of like short film. Yeah. The idea that these kids are watching Teletubbies and we are watching the kids watch Teletubbies and the kids are not all right. Right.

The kids have some concern. And kudos to the little kid actors. And I don't know if they manipulated him Spielberg style to get these emotional responses from him. Yeah. But the kids are really, really nervous and they're really upset. And then, you know, the zombies show up and it's just pandemonium and it's implied just child slaughter. And then the one kid. jimmy yes he runs out and he goes to his dad who is an anglican minister in the local church

who has decided this is the judgment, it's the apocalypse, it's the end of days, and he welcomes it. I loved all that. I like it when zombies get Christian, right? I like... Not like converting. But I do like the apocalypse when it's wrapped up in theology. And there's not a lot of it here, but there's just enough that's pretty cool to show this guy who's basically nuts and this whole little community in Scotland that's basically decimated and this kid runs away. Then we get the 28 years later.

And then we get the disclaimers and what has happened. And now we're introduced to this medieval city on an island with a causeway. No, Jimmy. That's right. Although a lot of people made assumptions about that. Now, real quick to clarify, I know we're on Dead Man Still Walking. We are going into full-blown spoilers. Is that correct? Okay. Yeah, because otherwise it's going to be a short discussion. Agreed.

And people have had a couple months to see this thing. So if you have not seen this thing and you've been tantalized by our initial rantings, just go ahead and pause this, baby, and go watch it. Yeah, and this is essentially our...

our take two. Thank you for doing it by the way. Cause yeah, Joel, Joel and I took a first crack at it, but we didn't, um, I think we had a non-spoiler section of course. So, so yeah. Yeah. You guys have already had the chance to listen to this and to to the review and watch the film so we're just going to spoil it out deal that's right

But yeah, so now we shift gears entirely, we've jumped location, we've jumped time, we've jumped characters, and we see that life is progressing inside this gated walled community where things are kind of back to... the olden days pre-technology uh pre-civilization you might say although they're quite civilized and it looks like they're they're making a go of it and this is where i initially did have some of my problems it's like look we got this little city it's on

an island, there's nobody infected, airlift those folks out. Right. What's the problem? Maybe they didn't want to leave, though. You know how some people are like that? That's true. This is our country. I like that answer. I like that answer better than everyone else on the planet ignored them. Right, right. Whatever. Yeah, I could see that because, you know, people have like familial ties with their land often. Yeah, weirdos. So.

What did you think? What did you think about the jump and the new setup and this new kind of this world building? Well, I initially loved the world building because this very, very effective and creepy trailer seemed to. that we were going to get Aaron Taylor Johnson as a father showing his son the ropes on how to do scavenging runs and how to deal with the infected.

That was the bait and switch promise that I perceived from the trailer that I was all excited about. All right. Well, now you have opened the can of worms. Yes. I think. humbly the 28 years later trailer is one of the greatest trailers ever created agree i think it's brilliant agreed it is creepy it is scary yes it is tantalizing

It gives you a lot of hints and a lot of taste, but doesn't give away the farm. Because while we're on the subject, if anybody out there has made the mistake to watch the... Oh, it's from the guy who did The Martian. He has a new movie coming out. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I know what you mean. I can't remember. It's called Project Hail Mary.

yeah okay project hail mary is an example of one of the worst trailers ever made oh i'm so angry i watched it too long kyle i did too i loved the martian and i liked the writer andrew weir i was excited for the movie and I'm getting a taste of it from the trailer and then it's like, are you kidding me? Right now Watson is like...

How many times do I get to tell you guys? Watson's mocking us right now. But we love movies. We love movies. We're excited. We like to be excited about movies. It wasn't a horror film, so I thought I was safe. No, but I wasn't. They show third. Well, who knows when it comes in the act, but they show major plot spoilers in that trailer and it's so infuriating. I agree. Okay. So Project Hail Mary, worst trailer ever.

28 years later, best trailer ever. And the voiceover, right? The one, two, three, the poem. Love that. Super creepy. The mask, super creepy. It's like, what is this community? What is this kind of post-apocalyptic? Are we talking like, oh, my brain is so mush. Are we talking about the boys?

Who are on the island. Oh, yeah, like Lord of the Flies. Lord of the Flies. Is this Lord of the Flies? Is this Road Warrior? Right. I was so excited. Is this Negan's people? Yeah. And then you said it correctly. Bait and switch. This movie gets rolling and I'm in it. Oh, this is awesome. I love the world building. I love the setting. I love this character Okay, he's gonna take his boy out. He's turned 12

He's going to take him out and make him a man. They're going to go on a hunting gathering mission and fight zombies. And that's what we get. And we get the poem and we see the mask and then we're done. We're done with that. they never really delve into the poem who's saying it why are they saying it they never talk about the mask what the hell is this mask why is this kid wearing this mask

Amen. What is this ritual that's going on? Preach. What is this, you've turned 12 and now we're going to have this celebration. They never address it. Okay, fine. Don't address it. I mean, the celebration, they do cover that the celebration is to acknowledge that he has this rite of passage where he has traveled to the mainland on scavenger hunt and he's coming back. So they're celebrating. Okay, I'll concede the celebration is clear. The ritual isn't. Correct.

And I know it's kind of maybe this idea of, well, this ritual has been going on for so long, they're not going to explain it to the audience, you have to figure it out, but they don't give us enough. Causeway. Do you know the literary origin of the Causeway trope? No, and when you say causeway, you are referring to the tide that comes in and out and covers the bridge? Yes. Okay. Where does that come from? Oh.

I should know this. Oh, I feel like I'm going to get a bad grade today in class. Well, there wasn't homework. I'm just being of knowledge. Is this a moat sort of reference? Sort of. Okay. The literary device comes from The Woman in Black. The idea of an isolated island with full of gothic mystery that is only connected to the shoreline by a road that is underwater during high tide.

So I liked that. I liked that idea. Love it. That they're calling back to a beloved British Gothic narrative. Also, when I was in middle school, I wrote a fantasy story with a causeway. Aw, did you?

it was called the causeway and it was terrible i don't believe you moving on so dad and son go to the mainland to scavenge and hunt and we get our first exposure to the the various and mutated zombies so let's talk about them yeah we got slug zombie that's my term okay

The slug zombies are massively overweight to the point that they can't even really walk anymore. They just kind of... crawl around on the ground and eat whatever they can find and apparently they're doing well because they're extremely well fed did you attribute that to um the wood tick How if wood ticks eventually get engorged in blood, they turn big and huge and green looking, sort of like the slug zombie. Well, I am now, but just gross. So they have adapted to survive because it's weird.

And we don't get an explanation, which I'm fine with, but we just see how different people have been affected by the rage virus in different ways. So the slug zombies are ferocious. They're not as dangerous because they're so heavy and they can't move fast. So that's our first encounter. But they're sneaky. They're stealthy and pretty quiet.

Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So maybe that's part of what you were saying about their adaptive traits. They've adapted well, and that's our first encounter, which is a good first encounter for our boy here. I like that they're... doing bow and arrow stuff i like that it's very much this kind of medieval survivalist stuff and while we're at it i love the uh production design i think the costumes are fabulous right that these guys have these rugged handmade

clothes. We're almost in Lord of the Rings territory here. We've got our rugged Aragorn who's taking old Spike out to teach him the ropes. And I really did like it. I like that. And, you know, the kids under all this pressure, I've got to perform. Dad's a manly man. And I maybe am not as manly a man, but I've got to be a manly man. And I have a 12 year old son. And so I was kind of thinking about it in terms of him. Could he do this?

And I'm thinking, well, no, but not because of him, but because of the world in which he was raised. Spike, of course, being 12, was born 16 years after the apocalypse. So he would have been raised very, very differently. True.

have been using his bow and arrow instead of his his switch and even he was like a couple years early they said that typically they don't take him out to like 14 right we're taking him out early because dad has something to prove There's all kinds of interesting stuff about fathers and sons and machismo.

And so self-plug, I did write an essay about fatherhood in zombie films because generally I think that zombie movies do a pretty good job of presenting good fathers, not toxic fathers like we get in so many horror films. films and looking at you, Stephen King. And so I do think that this guy is a pretty good dad. He's showing his son. He's helping his son. He's worried about his son. But then we find out that he's actually kind of a horrible person. But that's later. Yeah, right.

We encounter the regular zombies. Now, the regular zombies are just kind of people who've been infected, and they can move pretty quickly if they're well-fed, but we also see some extremely undernourished zombies, which is just cool. The one kind of hero zombie featured in the trailer, who unfortunately looks a lot like Cillian Murphy. Yeah, there was a lot of controversy about that. Yeah, but it's not. It's just a super skinny zombie.

zombie dude and I thought that was cool. So we kind of have them and they're dangerous but they're not like super dangerous especially when they're alone. And of course, that's been since Romero. One zombie, you can pretty much take care of one. So we see that these zombies have stayed alive and they are kind of replenishing because there's still people and people are still getting turned implicitly.

The zombies are getting enough to eat that they're not dying of natural causes, even though that was implied at the end of 28 Days Later. And it is still enough of them that the mainland is a threat. Well, that's all super boring. So what do we got to do, Jay? Sorry, one quick thing I just want to throw out there.

One thing that I realized during this, because if you take it to its logical conclusion, it's like, OK, would people who were infected by this rage virus, would they still be here 28 years later? But the thing is, we are getting new. infected people all throughout the pandemic so that's part of but anyway to answer your question what do we do oh well we completely scrap and throw away everything that we've set up and that we liked and then we run this airplane into the ground in my opinion

Why? Why do we do this? No. Why do you say that? Okay. Well, I'll try not to do a lot of double treading of stuff, but I'll just say this. My biggest gripe with this, Kyle, in case you hadn't heard that review, is that... This kid was traumatized, nearly killed. And I guarantee he was traumatized when they barely got back. Right. Yep. And then the next day or very soon thereafter.

He decides to go out on his own and take his mom, who acts crazy, and escort her to go find this doctor. So it's like this quest. But I could not get past. It ruined the movie for me right there. I could not get past. I'm like, there is no way. Because I remember thinking as a dad, when I was watching this film, sorry about the reruns listeners. Kyle, I remember thinking, there is no way.

He's going to get this kid to ever go on a scavenging run with him again. This kid's going to be traumatized for life. And then all of a sudden this kid's like, oh, this will be a good idea. I can take, I can handle myself, even though I pretty much sucked the first time. Come on, Kyle, you know, like, let's think of the way people behave, you know.

you disagree no no no i'm not disagreeing okay here's the thing so yeah we get a pretty exciting zombie movie up to this point yeah we have these uber zombies what do they call alphas alphas yeah So we have these alpha zombies, which are super tough, super strong, super fast, and super hung. Yeah.

Well, you know, let's just call a cigar a cigar. Right. So we learned that the virus is mutated and that certain individuals... mutate into very big muscular strong zombie dudes now this is evoking the last of us yeah the last of us the last of us has the like the big tank zombies yes where they kind of mutate into these giant things and it's really kind of a video game trope because the alphas are the boss of the video game. And the alphas give us a real threat.

a threat that as you say very much traumatizes this young boy because they've come very very very very close to being killed yes but as a film goer i loved that stuff That stuff was great. Same, same. And you know, frankly, it does make a lot of sense. If these zombies have been out in the forest for 28 years, yeah, their clothes are gone. Yes. So the idea of the naked zombie, while somewhat upsetting, makes a lot of sense.

Listeners, if you have not seen it and you don't want to see it, they're very dirty. So I would not say that this is a salacious presentation of the naked body. Right. If you are finding these zombies sexually attractive, you need to find a therapist because they're not.

They're ferocious, they're monstrous, and they're very feral. They're like, you know, they're like Neanderthals to a certain way, but they're also very much monstrous. Kyle, I don't know if you heard this, but this was when Joel and I were just texting later, not during the recording.

he referred to this he's like maybe this film should have been called 28 inches later but he was he couldn't he couldn't take credit because he said he got it from somewhere else so anyway that's kind of hilarious as well well and i haven't listened to the review

I wanted to go into this today fresh, but I will listen to it after. But yeah, I mean, it does make sense that if these guys are naked, they're going to be swinging low. And it does make sense that if the alphas are overly stimulated like a steroid they're gonna yeah it's a little distracting but you know you just try not to look directly at it right and uh you just focus on the the narrative so like you said and like i am now saying all that was great yes

Great zombie action, great world building, great production design, great use of music. I mean, everything's firing on all cylinders. Yes. We get back for the celebration, the coming of age celebration, and we find out that good old dad does suffer from some toxic masculinity it is really really important to him that his son be seen as a macho kid And so he lies. He lies to everybody about the prowess of his son, and he does not address his son's failures in the face of certain doom.

The truth is Spike was too young to go out there. The truth is Spike was not emotionally capable of handling the trauma. He was not skilled enough in the bow. And he's so upset, especially when he finds that his dad is a little promiscuous. And now we hate the dad because a cheating husband is terrible, but a husband who's cheating on his terminally ill wife is super terrible. That's pretty...

That's pretty low. So we're just going to kind of ignore him now. And so son goes home, bonds with mom. Mom is so sick that she has moments of delirium and he just wants to protect her. And now we start an entire Different movie. Right. But quick question. Was that reprehensible behavior by. the father played by Aaron Taylor Johnson. Was it bad enough for you where you're like, yeah, I'm done with the major star that they advertised for this. Let's just set him aside.

No, because you've got to have flawed characters. You've got to have a flawed hero. So I still thought he was a prominent figure. And frankly, I thought he was Jimmy. A lot of people did, yes.

Yeah, so I didn't know who everyone thought was Jimmy, but I thought this dude was Jimmy and I thought that that's why his name was jamie that was like his real name jimmy was a nickname jamie was his first name and i think that they're purposely doing that to us yeah probably that was i think that was the gang's point they wanted us to think that this was grown jimmy even

though he's too old, but whatever, don't care. And I wanted him to be the hero. And so yeah, now we get this developed narrative. We have this flawed hero. His wife is dying. He's kind of cheating on her. Well, not kind of. He's over macho. His son can't measure up to his expectations. And at this point in the film, nope, we're going to just leave him completely behind. And like you said...

This traumatized 12 year old boy says, I'm going to take my terminally ill mom back to the mainland because it was clearly safe enough for me to take him to crazy doctor guy and get her cured. And to accommodate this ridiculousness, they don't really encounter that many zombies or zombie threats on the way to the doctor. No. So how convenient. Thanks, screenwriters. The confrontation we have is pretty amazing.

We have extremely pregnant lady zombie. Yes. In labor. Wow. Bold. Yes. Now, we had pregnant lady zombie in Dawn of the Dead. Yes. The remake. Yeah, 2004.

But this one is so much more visceral and realistic, right? She's grubby, she's naked, she's squatting, she's just trying to get this baby out. And as such, the pains of labor are apparently so overwhelming that the rage virus to take a back seat and so mom isla is like well i will help her through this labor and she gives birth to a perfectly healthy baby now here's what I read and correct me if I'm wrong this could have been a pregnant woman who was infected or it could be the

quote unquote wife of the alpha zombie. So what I'm not sure about, and I don't think it really matters, is are these infected rage virus zombies getting it on and reproducing? Or is this baby healthy because it was healthy at the moment of conception? So you tell me. I think it's the latter because we have Ray Fiennes helpfully educating us by saying the magic of the placenta.

Right. So I believe that the mother was impregnated when she was healthy. She ended up getting infected at some point. And then she has this baby, which is healthy. So I think that's what happened. yeah i think you're right way to use textual evidence to support your reading thank you so proud of you that makes up for the woman in black mistake okay good yeah because if two infected zombies have a baby the baby's got to be infected i think

And we haven't seen any indication that these guys are having sex. So yeah, she had a baby protected by the placenta, which its job is to filter out illness and disease and virus to protect the baby. But clearly, alphasom.

I can't remember what they call him in the movie he feels possessive about this this lady zombie so we have we have a thriller we have some excitement we have this poor swedish soldier who shows up to give them some military support and we have a little bit of a showdown we kill the lady alpha zombie who apparently is so genetically altered he can just rip skulls directly out of people's spines which is unrealistic but super cool yeah

And then we have, you know, we have a fight scene in a train, which I love. I love zombies on trains. Yes. And eventually, though, we do make it to crazy Dr. Fiennes. And by the way, his name, they named him Samson.

right there it is that thanks i remember so then we get to dr kelson who's nuts and i loved it so even though this second narrative the i've got to save my mom narrative which has a lot of emotion and a lot of heart and a lot of drama even though it detracts from the initial great zombie movie we were getting I do like Ralph Fiennes in this. I like his look and I like his particular form of insanity. Yes. And I like this idea of a forest made of trees covered in bones. But.

But. But. I bet I know what you're going to say. No, you say it then. They probably heard me say it. I want to hear you. Okay, that's true. You've already talked about this. The whole turning a human body into a finely polished bone. is a little problematic. I don't know the science. I don't know if you actually can fully cleanse the human skeleton that effectively by baking it and then washing it off, but...

I don't know. It didn't sit well with me, and I'm not sure why. Could it be, or maybe you were going to say. No, that's it. I don't know why. Could it be that you saw the best trailer ever, and you saw that... a horrendous bone tower and thought, oh no, what is going on in this world? And it turns out to be his, basically his decoration, his Christmas tree of humanity. Yeah, that's part of it.

Yeah, it's just weird. It's weird for the tone of the movie so far. It is a little melodramatic, if not sappy. Yes. But it crosses into sappy when he's like, here's your mom's skull, kid. Why don't you climb the tower and put her on top so she can watch the sunrise? It's supposed to be so emotional with the music and the triumph of Will and the kid climbing and him putting the skull and saying goodbye and kissing the skull.

it didn't land with me man ugh yeah same it just was a different movie yes and honestly i think it was a little tasteless Because we've talked about how this kid, how he goes from, I'm so traumatized, I'm never going outside the walls again, okay, next morning we're gone. Now we have this kid who's like, oh, I love my mom so much, I don't want my mom to die. Oh, okay, you euthanized my mom and boiled her down to her skull. Hand it over. I don't know any 12-year-old who's going to be like, cool.

yeah yeah it doesn't it's just i i would see a 12 year old when presented with his mother's skull screaming and crying and running and hiding i just right

He's so chill. I know. Yeah. Oh, and there's a baby. All right. So anyway, we end up killing Samson, but I don't remember how, which is a bad sign. For the movie and for me. What happens to Samson? Well, let's see. Let me think. Well, at what point was he killed, though? Because I remember he was drugged and then Ray Fiennes. Oh, that's right. He shoots him with the morphine. He was drugged. And then when Samson is trying to pull Ray Fiennes out of the.

whole the kid does something is it like a bomb it's a bomb right or something yeah okay so thank you i i saw that whole moment i saw it twice kyle and i don't remember very well so okay so they hide underground under some grating. But Samson's too strong. He breaks through and he's about to kill Dr. Kelson. And it is pretty harrowing and it is pretty exciting. And then, yeah, the kid kills him. and kelson's like well i'm gonna cook this guy down good luck kid take the baby yeah and okay

All right. There's some heart. There was a good climax. And now we got old Spikey. He's going to go back home with the story of his mom and with this new baby, which represents new life. And he's going to go back to his community and he's going to reconcile. with Jamie, who's going to have a new appreciation for his son, who's going to have a chance to mourn his wife, and they're going to raise this baby together, right? Right? Nope. That's not, no. But he does make it back safely.

All that distance once again. He walks all the way back with the baby and encounters zero zombies. Yes. And he makes it across the causeway. And he leaves the baby in a basket and he leaves a note and he leaves the community to wander alone. Another. Kung fu style. Another like. Yeah, like he's Kane. From Kung Fu, I know. Another unlikely decision made by a 12-year-old. Yeah, I'm sorry. There's no way. There's no way that kid's doing that. No.

After all he saw, after all his close calls, after almost dying, after losing his mother, I can understand he's mad at his dad, but he's got this baby now that his mom gave him to raise. He's going to go. and he's gonna raise that kid and he's gonna grow up. But that doesn't work for a trilogy, man.

Well, it could if you would use the Aaron Taylor Johnson character. I mean, hopefully, are we to understand that hopefully he'll be involved in maybe the next movie a little more? I have no idea, man. But I don't. I don't really care either is the sad thing. I went and saw this by myself in the theater and I'm, and I'm along for the ride and I love the first act.

Banger, loved it. Been watching a lot of Land of the Creeps, listening to a lot of Land of the Creeps. Nice. He says Banger a lot. Yeah. So, yeah, but it's great. Okay, second act, little sappy, little weird. But you know, okay, it's got heart. It's firing on cylinders. I'm pretty happy with it. Happier than you. And then we get this final little denouement. Where it doesn't just go off the rails, man. It goes off the bridge into the chasm and explodes. What is with the ending of this movie?

I despised it. I will tell you this, Joel ended up having some great insight into the end of this movie. Please. Well, and this is a repeat for people who've listened to both reviews, but what is the insight? Yeah. Because I got nothing. I'll try to summarize it as best. I can but the short answer is in British culture there was this guy who was a he was a prolific

pedophile, right? And so the blonde leader of this group, this group that is kind of Teletubby dressed in their track suits, which is something Joel pointed out. The blonde leader, he looks a lot like this pedophile. dude and so there's some sort of

Joel said that in that culture, there's some sort of a, you know, a reference that people who see this would know what they were hinting at. I'm butchering this, but I'm just saying. And then he wanted to get to know the kid and he wants the kid to hang out with him. stuff so it's got a very dark kind of undercurrent no no no okay so

Yes, there is a Teletubbies weirdness. I did read that young Jimmy, when he flees the house in the opening sequence, or no, it's not Jimmy, it's Spike. Spike has a Power Ranger action figure. Yes. That he takes with him. And so I read someone who thinks these guys are Power Rangers more than they are Teletubbies because of their Kung Fu fighting.

so they're in colored tracksuits and they fight these zombies in a sequence that is suddenly and inexplicably filmed more in the style of power rangers yes suddenly we got kung fu fighting and flips and twirls and this rack zooming and weird cuts like circus goofs it's goofy yes thank you it is goofy right And then the movie just ends.

when jimmy is like hey you wanna be afraid like you said pedophile like to spike i just sat there and i've never i've had this experience once but it was for because i was in awe i sat there in my seat in the in the theater with my mouth open and was just stunned i didn't do anything

I was just like, what? Same. When it goes, I had no idea, Kyle, when it goes like the screen to black and it's like directed by Danny Boyle or filmed by Danny Boyle or whatever. I was just so angry and I'm just like. That is not an ending. I was alone, but I said out loud, what the hell? Right? Yeah. And I sat there through the credits hoping that maybe there might be some post-credit nugget of rationality, but no. Instead, this bizarre, goofy...

Semi comedic action sequence is in fact the bookend of Jimmy and the Introduction to the next film now when I went into this I didn't know that I didn't know that the third film of this trilogy is in fact the first film of another trilogy. Yes, which is, that's not... math everybody right that's that's not how trilogies work no either and so now we are going to have a 28 years later colon trilogy with two more films that are maybe about jimmy

Maybe. And so that's one annoying thing that they're going to be called 28 years later. And then this next one coming out in January is the bone temple. Yeah. That's. Okay. Wasn't the Bone Temple in this movie? I thought so. But, you know, Kyle, I know it's one of those things where it's like... Well, Jay, you should just wait and see what the trilogy holds, like you always told me in season two of The Last of Us. Yeah, just give it a chance. Because you are the Linus.

of this podcast, just hoping each year that The Great Pumpkin will show up for us. And so maybe The Great Pumpkin will come in January. Well, here's another weird thing. The next film is not going to be directed by Boyle, and it was actually shot concurrent. So that's why that one's coming out already, is they've already been making the movie. But he's coming back to direct the third one. So I'm a little confused about it. So Garland wrote The Bone Temple.

and will ostensibly write the third one but boyle is only producing the second one with plans on coming back to direct the third one and this the director of the second one is a lady we have a lady filmmaker Yes, and I like that because there's so few female directors of zombie stuff. So I don't know. I don't know what to expect. I don't even know what to hope for. I do like Danny Boyle. I still like Danny Boyle. I still love Alex Garland. And I really, really liked most of this movie.

But it's hard to come back from that ending. I loved this film up until the point once they got back from their initial outing. and they they barely got back and the community helped them at the gates they helped them kill the alpha that was chasing them so cool i was i was just I was flying high right then. I was so happy. But then after that, man, it just crashed and burned for me. Well, listeners, you'll notice that the energy level of the podcasters has diminished.

in much the same way as the... excitement if the film diminishes yes our spirits are a little and so we're we're just done we're done here with this discussion it's because what happened was we showed up to danny boyle we can't we traveled all this way three years later to Danny Boyle with our hopes in the form of our sick mom. And he euthanized our hopes and then like polishes the skull and hands it back to us. And then here you go. Here's your 20.

days later sequel it's like thanks thanks for that i guess i'll just stick it on the top of my bone christmas tree that is that is a shockingly apt parallel that you've painted for us there All right. So here's the real shocker though. I gave it an eight. What's wrong with you? I gave it an eight for two reasons. The first half of the film and to annoy you. I knew it. Those are the two reasons. I gave it an eight.

There is some really cool stuff going on here in terms of zombie lore, in terms of zombie plotting, in terms of action and filming. It's a little more of a frenetic filmic style than even the original, but whatever. It gets emotional like the first one and the second one, but then it gets a little sappy. I do think the performances are well done. But yeah, I'm taking a point off for the ending and a point off to annoy Jay. There you go. 8 out of 10.

What would you give this one? Seven? This was a six to me. I said, see it in the theater and it's a rental. I'm not even buying it unless the rest of the trilogy ends up being good. I'm not going to argue with you with your seven. It was a six. I'm trying to push you up. Let's be clear. But let me ask you, one thing I really wanted to hear from you, Kyle, is...

I mean, Dr. Bishop, let's be, because you've earned it. Whatever. What I want to know is, what were your feelings about, I guess, the adaptation of the rage-infected... of how they end up becoming this little tribal community and they kind of situate under the alpha. Did you feel like knowing this virus, seeing this virus in the first two films and the way it behaves, it's so destructive that it's hard to even believe that there would be a way for the frail human form to even adapt in this way.

yeah it's suspension of disbelief because if you think back to 28 days later the zombies looked different you know they had bloody eyes yes and they were very ferocious and they didn't seem to have any kind of pack mentality so maybe we explain that away with the evolution or the mutation of the virus maybe all the zombies from 28 days later are dead by now and these are all second third generation viruses

And maybe the instinct for humans to be social creatures is more powerful than the virus. Whatever, but it's all apologetics. It's me just making up stuff to try to explain the film. No, I feel better about all that because another little... This is citing some contextual evidence to support. In the opening of this film, we aren't aware as the film opens the first time you see it, you're not aware.

I assumed when this movie began, I assumed that we were in the 28 years later realm, but we're actually still at the beginning of the outbreak. When this film opens. And so we do get the extremely ferocious, violent rage infected and we see the projectile. blood vomiting oh yeah which was really a thing that happened a bunch in those first two movies and then in these later in 28 years later we don't see the blood vomiting we don't see anybody get infected do we I don't think so.

Well, yeah, I mean, it has changed. They're different. They're mutated. This isn't a narrative about the outbreak. It's not a narrative about infection. It's about this weird post-apocalyptic world. But I will say, yeah, I mean, the first movie...

had a pre-credit scene that led up to 28 Days Later. And then the second film had an outbreak scene so they could follow it with 28 Weeks Later, right? So the reason, part of the reason the opening... is a flashback is so they can say 28 years later and also i guess so they can introduce us to crazy perhaps pedophilic jimmy yes So obviously that's not going to happen with the next film because it's still 28 years later.

As far as I can tell, they're just conceptualizing this as the third film in the trilogy just happens to be like six hours long. that's all i can do and then you know maybe why didn't we make it a series or why didn't we tell it episodically instead of go with films but who am i to question the will of the great filmmakers i am just here to watch hopefully enjoy, and then criticize. Right.

So I'm also recommending see this in the theater because it does have a lot of excitement and action that would be best experienced on the big screen. But thereafter, if people miss it in the theater, I don't know how it's going to translate on the small screen.

honestly it might actually exacerbate the problems we've talked about but i would say for zombie fans definitely give it a chance and uh you know embrace the hatred if that is what you feel as a result but i am very interested in the next film to see

if it does go somewhere that makes some sense, if it does redeem this movie to some extent. Because sometimes, you know, the first third of a book isn't great, but then it becomes great because of the rest of the book. So I'm giving it a shot. Okay. And we will discuss.

That's it, my friend. We will discuss it together. you have to go oh i'm yeah i'm looking forward to i will i it's kind of like the jurassic park jurassic world movies if they make a hundred of them i'll watch you know so these 28 days later movies i'm in because i love the first two so much all right well we'll be there that's right all right folks so this was a little bit of a long episode for us but we had some passion and we had a lot to say so i hope you enjoyed it

As we kind of move forward with the episodes, I wanted to get straight to this one because it's new. We're going to be jumping back a little bit. I've watched... Well, I'm going to give you a couple films inspired by COVID, and then I'm going to get you some historical... gems that i missed so there'll be some variety through the rest of this summer and then uh then maybe i'll get some dragon some more guests like my friend here jason of the deceased

You know, and for those who stuck around to the end of this review, I just want to do a little teaser. Kyle, there is, and I'm pretty sure about this. I've mentioned it to you in the past, I think, but there is a zombie related. property that i don't think you've ever reviewed or discussed in fact i don't even know if you've seen it but

It is extremely unusual. It's an uncommon sort of medium for a zombie cinema. And so I'll tell you after this recording, I wanted to tease it to the listeners and maybe you and I could do a special little segment. or whatever you want. It could be whatever you want, but I'm going to track it down. But I think it's genuinely worth discussing. All right. I love specialty segments. Okay, good. You're on, man. All right. Thanks for listening, everybody. Please let your friends know.

Please let us know what you thought. As always, you can contact me directly at bishopk at su.edu if you want to get into an email discussion. But you can also post your comments on the website. And yeah, listen to the rest of the show. We got a great new horror movies episode. that's out there. And by the time this one airs, there'll probably be some more. Definitely will. Listen and enjoy, my friends. Bye, Roger. I'm on a pitch in as the middle of the residence report took free.

that is now on fire.