Welcome back. Jason Piles, known to you all. of the dead that's right hi hi uh thank you for having me back again i'm really enjoying this um weekly get together in fact i don't know if i ever told you this dr bishop but one of my um miniature tiny little podcasting dreams was to have a kind of a weekly show a tv series that i review on a podcast because
Because one of my heroes, David Chen, you know, of course, I'm always following way far behind his footsteps. But he's been able to do that on a lot of great shows. And I actually tried to do that at one time with my ex-wife. But the show we chose was horrible. It was absolutely the worst TV show ever. And we're like... no we can't do this so we just dropped it but so you And The Last of Us, I'm really grateful for this opportunity to be able to do this with you. Well, when we retire...
Let's do a weekly show on the entire oeuvre of The Walking Dead. It'll take five years. Oh, that'd be fun. We'll do all the series, all the shows, and the alleged... forthcoming films deal deal i'm in i'm in but yeah we gotta wait a little while but this is working great and i am so glad listeners even though i am something of a zombie guy
This is Jay's brainchild for us to be able to do this, and it is exciting to be able to talk about an episode before the next episode comes out. So we are doing our best to get these podcasts to you in a... a reasonable time so we can stay up on the new episodes uh because what we got today is uh we're going to talk about day one which is episode four it's it's only been out a couple days now we're going to dive into this so
Yeah. So far, Mr. J, this is the lowest rated episode of season two, according to Internet Movie Database. viewers and I have some I have some theories as to why this one isn't hitting as well as some of the others have and I also unfortunately did a little reading around on the internet And I have found an inordinate number of jerks who like to post. their opinions about things. People are being very rude to Miss Bella Ramsey.
They are very critical of her performance and her appearance, which is just not necessary. I had some things to say about her this week. I just want to put that out there because I was already feeling guilt from you as you were saying that but um i'm just well you haven't criticized her appearance i mean that's just rude well what kind of jerk would do that but i'm just saying like What I'm saying is I had a very nice thing to say about the actress personally this week.
So I just wanted to put it out there. All right. Just so you weren't wincing, thinking, oh, I hope my idiot friend doesn't say something stupid publicly. No, no, I know. It'll be. okay so yeah this is an interesting episode and i have opinions i would like to say even counting season one based on what the walking dead was able to put on tv despite the fcc I would say The Last of Us has mostly been a PG-13 cinematic experience. Yes.
Up until this episode. Right. I feel this episode quite... thoroughly crosses the line over into a well-deserved TV MA. And that stuff doesn't bother me at all, but it's kind of helpful if I know what I'm getting into. Yeah. So kind of based on the episodes we've been watching so far, this one opens up and it's like, they seem to be cussing a lot more than they normally cuss. And then it was, there is some very graphic nudity in a TV show that has never featured nudity before.
And then it was, oh my gosh, this is really gory. This is really violent. so uh please listeners as a zombie fan uh you don't need to worry that i'm overly prudish when it comes to content but i do want to put that out there especially if people haven't seen day one yet Yeah, if you've been watching Last of Us with your preteens, maybe not watch this one, but I don't know, you know, your parents, you can do what you want. Or screen it first, perhaps.
Yeah, definitely screen this one first. But yeah, I found it. I feel like they turned up the dial and I'm interested to see if that continues and if there's kind of a reason for it, if we're building up to something. Because I found some shocking content. Not objectionable, mind you. Right. Just a little shocking because I wasn't prepared for it. Now, you are, of course, a calloused and insensitive individual, so I'm sure you didn't even notice.
Would you say that this show is getting a little bit more... Adult-oriented.
oh yeah i mean from and we're in full-blown spoilers for the whole series everybody from joel's death certainly it's almost like that was the announcement that okay we're gonna bring it hard from here on maybe yeah oh yeah yeah because the way that was done as we've discussed very upsetting so oh yeah Well, and so we're getting to the brutality, which is really interesting because it did feel a little bit more like The Walking Dead this week.
And I'm not saying that as a negative thing, but what we're learning is that in this post-apocalyptic landscape, we do have numerous factions. And these factions are all pretty brutal. So last week, we were introduced... somewhat passingly to the Seraphite. The angel worshippers or whatever. And they were presented as sweet and innocent and loving and kind. and unjustly massacred by the evil wolves. Yes. Well, so then with day one, we get an episode which is, well, wait a minute now.
The wolves are actually freedom fighters who are trying to keep Seattle safe for democracy, and they are trying to protect the citizenry from the evil, bloodthirsty Seraphites. Well, long story short, I think both the wolves and the seraphites are horrible, horrible people. Yeah. It felt a little bit like the factions in The Walking Dead, where sometimes you would get to the point where it's like, I don't even know who to root for anymore. Yeah.
It's like that quote I said last week, that famous quote about one person's revolutionary is another person's terrorist. And yet, if you were viewing this from the outside, looking at both sides, you're like, What are you guys doing? This is all terrible. What you're doing to each other is awful. Yes. But see, this is really clever because it's manipulating the way the story is presented. So we only saw the Seraphites last week. so we naturally felt sorry for him.
Yes. Because we saw the Seraphites and then we saw the result of the wolf attack.
and of course dead kids makes everybody except you jay sad and upset so it was manipulated that way although i was a little suspicious because like okay the seraphites they seem like nice religious folk but they do scar their people yes and that's a little hinky that's a deep scar across the cheek even even in the children so i'm like yeah these people are pretty hardcore so we got some issues there well okay so this week we introduce
Although this character theoretically was in the first season, but my memory is shite, so I don't remember. But we introduced Jeffrey Wright. I love Jeffrey Wright. Jeffrey Wright has a great voice. He was masterful in Westworld for fans of that series. And he is introduced as Isaac Dixon.
Do you remember him being in the first season? I don't, but I was also dying at that time. Oh, that's true. You were dying. But someday I'll go back and rewatch it. But anyway, we start with what kind of feels like present day. because it dovetails into the ending of the third episode.
where we see the show of force the military might etc this episode starts with a group of militia swat team whatever in the back of a van and so it kind of feels like it's the same time and place but we quickly figure out it's a flashback Mm-hmm. So the idea is that this Isaac Dixon character, who maybe it's a cousin to Daryl Dixon, who knows. But we have Isaac Dixon who is with a kind of like FEMA group.
or the remnants of the national authority at the time of the initial plague, Fedra. Sorry, it's not Fedra, but I think Fedra is kind of supposed to evoke FEMA and other things today. I could be way off base, so please, listeners, tell me. Marshall Long is who, right? I mean, there you are. That's right. Yeah, the Federal troopers are there to enact martial law and they've taken away the rights of the citizenry. And we think that this Isaac guy is just a hardened veteran.
Who doesn't want to put up with the crap of the newbies? But then we find in a relatively shocking and pretty cool twist, he is in fact turning coats. And he is betraying Fedra to join the wolves.
And I thought that was pretty well executed. Awesome sequence. I thought that was a great open sequence. Especially since in the beginning, He had this insightful commentary on the political perspectives of the day, which made him sound a little bit measured and a little bit... wise it's like hey this guy you know he's shooting straight you know and then the fact that he brings the young newbie out of the vehicle in order to like teach him something
That was also cool. It's like, oh, he's a wise mentor type. Yeah, I mean, this is a nice guy. He cares about democracy and voters' rights, and so he's joining what is essentially the rebellion. Yes. And then he just nonchalantly throws a couple of grenades into the van. Yes. Awesome. And just wipes out all the federal people. And then the next time we see wise, kind, nurturing Isaac. he's just he's talking about you know i like to cook
And then before this all happened, I like to go and look at pots and pans. And he's just, okay, it's this nice, sweet, simple monologue. And is he making dinner for someone? No! He is brutally torturing a decrepit injured and buck naked member of the Seraphites and immediately thereafter We gather that the innocent, greeny, newbie guy who seemed very fresh-faced and innocent is a hardened, malicious, vicious dude now.
interesting so that was kind of a shocking turn because this is this is a level of human on human depravity we've seen in other zombie narratives but not in this one right Because even when they were going after Ellie for her brain tissue, they were being, dare I say, professional. But this is like... full-on post-apocalyptic dystopia. And Isaac has now become extremely terrifying.
chilling brutal and we get this exchange between him and the seraphite to learn that okay so the seraphites are awful and the wolves are awful and they're both killing each other's women and children Okay. Yes. And then this horrifying dystopian horror movie whatever shifts into our teen romance. Yes. As we cut away to Ellie and Dina carefree, apparently, wandering the lush green streets of Seattle seeking a blood vengeance. Would you like to talk about
But ostensibly, Kyle, not even concerned about any zombies or the enemy around them. Like you say, carefree indeed. Go ahead, sorry. They're almost skipping. Right. it's a little bit of a disconnect to this cross-cutting because essentially these two girls are just like out on a date with their horse yes yes so i No, you got to talk for a minute. Okay, let me just...
Let me say something positive because I've been so tough on Ellie specifically, but even Bella sometime, Bella Ramsey, the actress, she's a tremendous actress. I think her performance ability is incredible. as a musician I want to say there is after all this ugliness in this episode They give us a very beautiful moment where they kind of go into this little old music store. She finds an unscathed preserved guitar. She tunes it up and Bella sits there and plays and performs for us.
an incredible version, in my opinion, of take on me, ahas, take on me. And she sounds beautiful. She performs it very well. And I thought, if they had an mp3 recording of this i would purchase it and in fact i considered recording it and making an mp3 myself but i thought that was a beautiful moment and it was framed they had
and open like the part of the wall was like you know destroyed behind her and so there's she is literally framed in the scene by this sunlight and it's just this gorgeous moment the performance is great and even Dina is sort of moved by it because she walks in and she's
move to tears and once we learn as well that or are reminded that joel had taught her it makes it even more beautiful so i actually loved that moment and props to bella ramsey because i like her voice i like her performance that was tremendous no and I'm with you there so apparently this is a pivotal kind of fan favorite moment from the video game and so i looked into it a little bit um because
Bella Ramsey is a very good guitar player, and they told her she had to play like she wasn't a good guitar player, which I can't even imagine how you would do that effectively. Yeah. But she had to kind of scale back her skill set. and then yeah beautiful voice She did a really great job. And Isabelle Merced, who plays Dina, as the actress, she was moved to tears with the performance on the set.
So they kept that in. Oh, that was real. That was real. Oh, I was going to say. She actually wasn't supposed to cry. i was gonna say that was very convincing and indeed she was touched by her friend in real life in this performance and then she has gone on record to say that in her mind this is the moment when dina realizes she's in love with Ellie. And you know, that's fine. Fair enough. I am not. I want to be very clear here. Yeah, I am not anti-romance.
Right. I'm not anti young woman romance. No. I'm not anti LGBTQ romance. Right. This is a zombie story. And I get it. I know. It's good to balance the beats. and to have highs and lows and it's good to kind of have some different genre things popping up. But I'm never a huge fan of when romantic subplots enter into my horror movies.
Yeah. And I kind of, I'm just kind of, I get a little bored and maybe that's something that's wrong with me on a deeply personal level. But I felt a little impatient. with them being so like you said before it's not the romance part it's the fact that they're really cavalier they're a little too light-hearted for the situation yeah and they they don't seem to recognize the gravity of what they're involved in now to their credit
But things change, and I do think they get a wake-up call. Yes. And so I'm hoping we get a slightly different portrayal. But before that, we have to tell people this. If they're listening or if they've seen it, I mean, I got to acknowledge. See, the thing is, I think romance like Maggie and Glenn, for example, in The Walking Dead, I think romance in a post-apocalyptic world would and could happen, but not at the expense
or at the risk of one's well-being. Now, what's really bizarre and what annoyed me about this as you've said all your clarifications there that it wasn't about their relationship nothing about the relationship bothers me either but what bothered me was all of a sudden she's like I'm pregnant And then they start making out. And I'm like, what? And wasn't that, correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a few days since I've seen this.
Didn't they just run and get out of a close scrape? And moments after, their heart would still be racing. It's like, by the way... I'm pregnant and then let's make out. And I'm like, no, this feels so false to me. I agree with you, but I'm actually going to defend it.
So, a lot of adrenaline, right? Emotions are running high. They have this unspoken sexual tension between them. And because Ellie had allowed herself to get bit to save Dina, dina's going through all these emotions of you sacrificed yourself for me i'm about to lose you now i realize how much you mean to me and so we get some nice tension there about is Dina going to kill Ellie or not but I think what it is is this kind of relief and all this unused body chemical
stimulation so it is this thing of I'm immune I'm pregnant let's get it on and so well yeah I mean I'm sure it's true to the video game or maybe Some fans bemoaned that there wasn't enough action in this series. so be it it wasn't my cup of tea yeah it just felt weird but now the thing is and i want to say once again much like glenn and maggie and the walking dead
Which, by the way, I'm very in love with Lauren Cohen. I just want to put that out there. She's awesome. Yeah, she is. I think people in a post-apocalyptic situation would end up hooking up that way. But I'm just saying... I think I really do think that there would be a little more consideration for safety involved, especially since
They didn't really know that they were out of the woods, quote unquote, necessarily. They didn't know for sure that they were clear. No, but they were swept up in the moment, Jay. Spontaneous. Spontaneous 20 year olds in love. There's no reason behind it. I teach college, man. I see this all day. Kids don't think, they act. Yes. I don't know. No, that was good. I see your point, though, and I liked your description a moment ago. That was good. Let's talk about violence and monsters. Yes.
So we get this great kind of Hannibal Lecter moment because it's almost stolen from Silence of the Lambs when they go to check on Lecter and he's gone and all the guards are killed and put on this grisly display in the cage. Yes. That's exactly what our two heroes encounter because they find a group of wolves who have been hung and essentially disemboweled.
And done so in a ritualistic way that is lit by construction lamps. And it's very stylized and it's very ritualized. And it's really freaking creepy. Yes. So it reminded me a lot of Science of the Lambs. It also reminded me a little bit of that first season of True Detective. Because this is the work of the Seraphites. We know the Seraphites are a cult who have unexplained beliefs. and practices.
And so this looks like a very ritualized slaying that is really disturbing. And so once again, we have this episode show the brutality of Isaac towards a helpless, defenseless Seraphite. But now we see the cruelty and the kind of unnecessary level of violence against the wolves. And we have our two leads who are kind of literally stuck in the middle. Because don't forget, Jay, don't forget there's a third group. And that third group is, of course, zombies.
Yes, and then they finally show up after like an episode and a half of absence. Yes. The zombies make an appearance. Which is great. I just love because they're fast and ferocious. Oh yeah. So they end up going down into the subway station area. And it's a great action sequence. It really is.
it's brought back the level to what we got to see in episode two this season where again i'm making all these intertextual connections everybody they're like hiding and the wolves are very quietly trying to find them and then we start hearing clicker noises in the distance and Dina, which very effectively creates tension, she starts numbering off how many of them there are with her fingers and the clicking and the noises start to escalate and they start getting closer.
And man, that is right out of Fellowship of the Rings, man, when they're in Moria. And they're sitting there and they hear... and it just gets louder and louder and louder and then there's massive horde of infected Some full clickers, some that can still see, they come tearing around the corner. And so then the young women have to try to negotiate this threat in, around, and through subway cars.
Right. Which is nuts. That would be... It's nuts. Yeah. How'd it work for you? Well... Was that a good sequence? Yeah, tremendously entertaining, but a couple of little things. Some of the zombie sound effects, like the clicking, is a little bit reminiscent of the Predator, which I like, which is fine. I'm not complaining, but... One thing in this season that I am not appreciating is how in the first season they made these zombies.
so scary and they were very formidable and hard to deal with and it's like even if you encountered one you were in a big risk of getting killed or infected but in this season as we've said they're almost they're not nearly as afraid or as careful and it seems like the zombies aren't as dangerous as we were led to believe in the first season.
Well, and I agree with you there that I think we've watered them down a little bit because they're acting a lot more like common cinematic zombies or at least 21st century zombies. Yes. And unpopular opinion, I like the slow zombie. I like the zombie that has a lot of dread and tension behind it. And I like one of the things I really like about The Last of Us video game.
and which we've seen in other episodes of the series, is this kind of cat and mouse thing where it's all about being stealthy and not being heard and trying to use strategy and not just brute force.
but there's a place for the the siege right the siege was awesome of course this one it's it's very animalistic it's a wave of monsters and again i don't mind that we mix it up i hope we also get to see the other kind of threat because this one's great you know they're trying to get in the zombies are so single-minded they're just pushing through glass with no concern to their bodies. They're doing anything to get at these two women.
who are trying to shoot them and they're trying to get away and yeah pretty exciting i really enjoyed the use of the subway turn still because at first i thought oh my gosh they're gonna go through that that turnstile and then the zombies are just gonna come right through And one starts to get through when another one pushes on the other side. Amazing.
And it's so cool how they end up like the first one gets pinned and then it is in fact the zombies pressing against it, which prevents them from being able to use it. Yes. So, you know, just kind of. basic physics there, but it's a really tense moment.
and it's handled pretty realistically and pretty horrifically and that's the point where Ellie lets herself get bit because it's like her superpower right she can pull that out in the last second and then that brings this whole well now we have to trust each other so i'll tell you i'm immune and i'll tell you i'm pregnant and then
Yes. Okay, one of the things, though, that is getting a lot of flack online is Bella's I'm going to be a dad line. Yeah, that made me roll my eyes. I don't want to insult our LGBTQ listeners. I really don't.
it just seemed a little cheesy but it also seems like bella was i mean like ellie was trying to be cheesy maybe so she's kind of joking around because now of course ellie is in the position where she's going to be the joel you know long term potentially But I also like that Ellie was more than willing to welcome the child's father into their relationship.
to kind of set up the, you know, we're all having this baby. And that was very, you know, progressive. Yes, very progressive and interesting. And what also I thought about that line was that, you know, along the way, we've seen a lot of her... teenagerness and she does say things like like you said kind of to be cheesy remember she liked that joke book She likes to make comments like that.
So it didn't seem that far out of, you know, it seemed right in character with the Ellie character to me. No, I agree with that. Yeah. Now, while this might seem nitpicky, I think that this criticism that I'm about to level... speaks to and is a nod to the sophistication of the narrative and the character developments of this series. So this is actually sort of a compliment while it's also a critique.
the fact that Allie now that she potentially has this brand new family she's got a sweetheart and a baby on the way all of a sudden and there's even a line I think Dina says it's different now and it's like
yeah it is so if Joel this is what I thought Kyle I'm like this is kind of sad and dumb that she's avenging Joel I don't think he would want that because he risked his life and gave his life essentially to keep her safe and now she has a chance at some normalcy and at a family so it's almost like Instead of avenging him, how about honoring his sacrifice and not wasting it in vain?
that's something i thought now i know we wouldn't have a video game or a zombie tv series if she you know made the wise call but anyway this series got me thinking on that level yeah well i think that that I think that's the thing we need to explore this season is this really, uh, unwise obsession with vengeance and so many zombie narratives apocalypse narratives etc they do end up exploring these ideas of
is it worth it should we just move on let it go and so here's a chance you're right in another narrative world not a video game we just said wow you know what dina you're pregnant And I just had another really close call. And we are grossly outnumbered. yeah let's go back to jackson yeah let's go back to jackson hole and let's the three of us build up that community and raise this kid and everything will be so great yes but no
No, in fact, Ellie polls the, well, I'm going to go on and complete my mission, but you can't come because you're pregnant. Where Ellie really is embracing a stereotypical male perspective. And of course, Dina's like, no way man, I'm coming too. I said, let's risk this baby. So, yeah, I mean, obviously it changes and escalates the stakes.
It affects how this narrative is going to play out moving forward as we now have to worry about Dina. So this is really true. I've kind of danced around it, but this is what's going on. We have flipped. Season one because now instead of Joel needing to protect this young girl We have Ellie who has to protect this unborn baby And so they really have kind of switched roles and she is now gonna pick up the mantle of Joel
But Joel was his primary raison d'etre that led to the horrifying conclusion of season one was to keep her safe at all costs. Yes. Ellie has already now proven that she will keep Dina and her baby safe at one cost because she will not let it go. And so I am worried about Dina and her safety. Yeah. Well, like my grandfather used to say, if you can't listen, you're going to just have to feel.
That's right. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. Well, he was not a nice person, but that was one thing he said that was wise. Well, that's a nice thing to say. Right, right. Even if he wasn't the nicest of people. Yeah. And so I liked the Jeffrey Wright stuff. And I think it was some good if a little less unique zombie action. But honestly, I was a little underwhelmed by this episode. Because last week was a transition episode, a travel episode.
so it's like okay good that's fine i'll cut him some slack for there not being a lot going on but then next week episode four that's gonna be a barn burner i don't think it was how did you feel about this episode exact same but we did get some action we did get some zombies and i don't mean that kind of action watson jeez watson Leave it to Watson. There's tons of action in this episode. Leave it to Watson, right? I mean, am I right?
Stan Watson. Anyways. So yeah, I like that we got some zombie action. and so this one actually is better but once again i still will bemoan there are only seven episodes this season let's get moving so we are over the halfway mark And aside from the 10 out of 10 episode 2, we just haven't had a lot. So there you go. But you know what? Let's keep going. Let's see what next week has in store.
I'm sure because it is based on a video game that, yeah, we're going to see escalation and we're going to see excitement. So I'm all in and we'll see if the escalation in terms of content also. continues, but, uh, yeah. So, I will say this. Your positivity today... My normally less than positive friend has bumped me up a full point. Good. So I am going to give episode four, day one, a seven out of ten.
Yes, that's exactly my rating. I went up a half a point. I went up to a seven as well from the previous last week. because we got some zombies and because of bella ramsey's performance of aha's take on me and even though she didn't go for the high note I know. Which, you know, just saying, Kyle, why don't you do it? Why don't you do that high note for us right now? That's as high as I can go. Oh, I'm a full note low. Oh, that was amazing. Oh, Greg, I'm already scared. me. Take on me. Take me.
Keep going. I forget the lyrics. Hey! The day or two. I'm still low. Still low. You're closer than me. All right, Greg. It's up to you to hit that note. Greg Amortis can do it. And if he doesn't, Pearl will give him a little twister of some sort that'll get him up there. Yeah, we need to do more music on this show. That's right. Yeah, I love when Doc Shock sings. It's just my favorite. I do too. He's so great. Tune in next week.
talking about episode 5 which is currently titled airs on And just look that we haven't seen before. going on and here's We do have a spoiler, but I'm not Well, just catching Thank you, Jay, and thanks for listening.