All right, ladies and gentlemen, it is... of the last of us season two and help to help you through through the valley is myself dr walking dead and of course Kyle why are you doing this to me well it was your idea but I cannot I cannot help but blame you for this series. I just can't. Well, I'm super excited because, well, first off, let's get this out of the way. If you're listening to this and have not listened to any of our other coverage,
It's going to be confusing and weird. So we do recommend that you go back in the catalog because we do have an episode for every episode of season one and our season two, episode one. We just dropped last week, so we're going to try to do this every week and stay up on the kind of live event as it unfolds. Yes. Also, please be aware, and I'm going to say this one right up front, these are going to be spoiler-rific. And you do not want to listen to this discussion until you've watched.
through the valley let me just make that clear now what i'm excited about is last week My friend Jay poo-pooed on season two, episode one. He was underwhelmed by future days and a little bit crabby. Yes, I was. So I think, and I could be super wrong because I'm often wrong about Jay. I think that. This episode will at the very least result in a different response. Yeah, you're right. And in fact, despite my little musings and teasings here at the beginning. I am extremely impressed.
with this second episode. But, you know, it's kind of in the same way, though, Kyle, that my dentist I got my first ever root canal, you know, in 2021. And he pulled off this really remarkable thing. And I was extremely impressed that he did it. But... It was still a root canal. It was still. Well, yes. So through the valley, the root canal of Last of Us. Yes.
In a lot of ways. Now, I've read around. I will read around after I complete an episode because, as I mentioned last week, I have not played The Last of Us Part II. But apparently much of this episode is in fact true to that game, and therefore the unexpected moments were expected by many fans. And I think that's why fans seem to be reacting very positively to this episode that currently has a 9.5 out of 10 on Internet Movie Database.
Wow. As opposed to last week's 7.5 out of 10. And what I've read is that what has happened or what was happening or was going to happen in this episode did happen and was treated in such a way that the fan base... was relatively pleased. with the execution, if not the necessary, pardon the pun, if not necessarily the content. But I will say up front, and then let's get into this. To pick up on something we said last week, this episode does demonstrate the budget.
They kind of go all out. And it has two parallel storylines. One, which is a more quieter, but ultimately more devastating one. and then a much larger, grandiose one. And the reason I mentioned the video game is apparently the player of the video game does not experience any of the grand narrative. Only the aftermath of that narrative. Oh, interesting. And then the third thing I want to say is we have a new gold standard for the beleaguered survivor siege.
Apparently the people who live in Jackson were fans of The Walking Dead and they learned what not to do to defend a city. Because this is like Helm's Deep stuff. That's what we're talking about. Yes. This is a massive and very impressive depiction of a zombie siege. That was pretty cool. Dr. Walking Dead, were you, I got a question for you. Were you scared? I actually felt fear during this episode. I did not. Now.
But I came closer than normal. Okay. I came pretty close to fear because it's scary. And they have, there is one, I do have one jab or criticism, I guess I'll say that, but I'll wait for it. We do pick up pretty much where we left off the morning after the New Year's Eve party. So allegedly this episode takes place on January 1st. And there is a little bit of aftermath to recover from. but there's not a lot of downtime. And many of the things that we're teased at,
in that first episode come to fruition in this episode. Like episode one though, this one begins with a flashback but the flashback is in fact a dream sequence but it once again helps us to understand the new cast of characters that have come into this universe which is of course the vengeful former Firefly, Abby Anderson, played by Caitlin Dever, and her group of very loyal, might I say, compadres, followers? I don't know. They just seem to hang out with her.
But we do learn and have confirmed for us that Abby's father was the surgeon in the Fireflies compound in the last episode of season one. And that he was very unceremoniously. slaughtered by Joel when the latter shot the former in the face. So. Some degree of empathy for Miss Abby and some interesting setup to show this episode is the culmination of her five years long obsession. And now I want to start quoting Yoda. So we set that up.
Anyway, I want to hand it off to you, Jay. What do you think about the setup? So like I said, we have two major moments, two major stories and climaxes. How did you feel those were both simultaneously prepped for the audience? Oh, impressively, in fact. And I wanted to kind of confess. that even in my notes here, What is it before, before this episode turns into rock and roll? Like maybe, I don't know, 10 minutes. Oh yeah. Whatever it is before it's like rock and roll the whole rest of the show.
Right before, like literally probably 30 seconds, I paused it to write in my notes and I got a quote just so. It was something like there are only seven episodes. They don't have a lot of setup time. This needs to get going and moving. And I was so like, you know, I was being a little snotty guy. And then right when I hit play.
It's it began and brother, it did not let up to the end. So, yeah, the thing that excites me most when I'm watching films and such is when the story is when you're whisked away into the. scenarios i just story is everything to me i think in the story that happens in here with um I mean, we have some serendipitous meeting, a very... lucky chance encounter for Abby, that is.
And so but but that whole scenario is really cool because it begins with her encounter. And we're in spoilers. So her encountering Joel and he actually saves her life. yes and and which is just brilliant because i'm like oh this is great narrative tension you know like all that stuff well yeah because you're like well okay yeah go ahead go ahead sorry No, I'm getting ahead. You're not. It's such a key moment to discuss because. So on the one hand, we have to do some suspension of disbelief.
that these beleaguered former fireflies that are now like the dire wolves or whatever that was a topical reference nice um they have come all this way and they realize holy crap jackson is a full-fledged fortified community of thousands how are we going to find this Joel guy? And then the first person Abby runs into is this Joel guy. So I understand the reason to expedite the story. and to simplify some of the narrative structure. But it did seem...
At the worst, it seemed lazy. At the best, it seemed cosmic. These two are destined to see each other, to run into each other. There is a comeuppance to it. And I always tell my 17 year old who is learning to drive spawn of the dead. I always tell him, you know, even if there's a stop sign at an intersection in the middle of the desert. that's right you stop at that stop sign because you I've had this happen, Kyle, so many times in my life.
It's like there aren't any cars going either way on both roads, you know, for hours. And then when I get there, I stop and a car flies by. And if I didn't stop. We would have smashed each other. And because I see things like that in the world, I really pick up and pay attention to that. It doesn't really bother me. that she runs into him right off the bat. Well, I mean, in your analogy there, it does make sense. I mean, these two have been heading for a collision course for five years. Yeah.
And structurally and narratively, it does work pretty well. So setting up to that, though, is it's so great. So we talked about the snow. And so we've gone full Hoth here. I mean, it's so cold. And they're like... Your mount will die before you get back. Yes. Well, then I'll see you in hell. I mean, we basically had that storyline that we're going to go out even in the storm. And.
It's so beautiful, but it creates that first layer of antagonism, right? Man versus nature. So we've got the cold, we've got the winter, but then we have this storm. And the storm was part of the story. It's part of the game. But when they filmed it, there was an actual storm that actually threatened to shut down production. So I love that, that there is some verisimilitude to it. It's not just effects. And it's such a great idea of these two pairs of scouts out on their horses, right?
And then it kind of unveils a little bit of character development. but also increasing dread and tension. And so then that's what they're doing. They're doing the Hoth thing. Are they going to make it back? We have to shut the gates. Call them in. Well, it's too late now. They're going to have to find refuge on their own. So that gets built up really, really effectively. Yes. Now, the next thing they build up, and this again is from the game. It's not original for the show.
But the idea that as plant-based organisms, these zombies kind of hibernate. through the winter like like you know when you if you have bulbs and you cut them down and then surprisingly they just come back the next summer yeah um i have some in my yard i didn't even realize we had uh so this idea that when it became too cold, the cordycepsis told the zombies to crawl under the corpses of other zombies and to just wait for spring.
Yeah. And so when Abby disturbs a massive... pile of these corpses, it's such a great effect as the snow seems to turn to a kind of a quicksand whirlwind morass and then they start crawling out. Absolutely. That's incredible. But just a quick little question, and maybe this seems nitpicky or maybe you can explain it to me, but why or how... Are there a bajillion of these zombies out in the middle of the wilderness? Well, see, um... I'm just...
Okay, I don't want to ruin it, but... They were on their way to Jackson. They were following survivors right at the time that it got... that the snow fell okay that's what i'm going with all right fair enough okay so here's a more plausible one um it is likely that over the last five years the jackson residents have had to fight off hordes of zombies. So it's possible that the large... Field of Dead Bodies was there. because of the natural events of protecting the community. Yeah.
And so then that was just a place where gradually these zombies congregated for hibernation. And now by waking up all at the same time, it seems like there was a gigantic swarm of them all at once, but it may be amassed. gradually over the course of winter. I liked it. That's my apologetics. This is why you're Dr. Walking Dead. You are a... Professor of zombie-ism. Because I can make stuff up. But that would be my rationale. I like that.
Make it more realistic that they've just kind of been gathering all winter. I love that. That's very good. But maybe the mass zombie graveyard was from the previous spring when it happened before. I don't know. But the thing is, Abby wakes them up prematurely. Yes. And they just haul ass after her. And they're also hauling ass after Ellie on horseback.
And then we get, it's a little reminiscent of Train to Busan, but, you know, chicken and the egg. I think the video game came first. But Abby gets trapped between a collapsing chain link fence. and this horde of zombies. And that was pretty scary. I loved it. Yeah, I'm not going to lie that as that passageway gets smaller and smaller.
And she becomes, you know, is she going to get killed? Is she going to get crushed? Is she going to get trapped? And let's point out just a little effects moment there. It's very quick, but these zombies are so intense.
one zombie is trying to reach through the chain link right in order to and he's this zombie is so intense about it that it the chain link it shows us it has ripped up through the hand like halfway into the hand that was awesome kyle yes it was awesome now splitting the hand between the middle fingers I hate it. We got it in Saw 5. Yes. We got it in Terrifier 2. Yes. We got it in Min. Min, yes.
I hate it. I know. Yeah, there's something about that. Especially self-inflicted, which is this one. Yeah, thank you for reminding me. That's nasty. And another just little moment about the collapsing chain link fence. I am currently taking spawn of the dead through the walking dead. And that's, that's actually where we've been. We've been in the, you know, the prison era of the series. And so.
We've been dealing with chain link fences collapsing there as well. Yeah. Chain link is not good for fortification. Just so everyone's clear. That's right. Yeah. And so then you point out this great. cosmic irony that Joel who's never met her who doesn't know anything about her
He ends up rescuing her like Joel would. Yeah. Joel's a hero, right? And there's this young woman who needs rescuing, so he rescues her. Until he blatantly just slaughters someone. But yes, he's a good guy, mostly. Anti-hero guy. no you gotta understand I'm not I'm not attacking him because he is my favorite character the whole series but anyways well I'm sorry not that that matters now so
He, this is the dramatic irony, right? Because we know that he and Dina are in grave danger. And of course, Joel has no idea. And I'm a little disappointed in Joel when he's so trusting, but I don't think. I think he was driven to be too trusting because of the storm.
Because he kind of does say, well, we don't really have a choice. I want to go back to Jackson and help out because there's clearly a siege going on. But we'll probably freeze to death before we can get there. So we'll go with you, even though that's a bad idea.
That's what I like to think. But there's a little flaw there, Kyle, because if it weren't for the necessity, and again, I'm nitpicking. I'm so sorry, everybody. But if it weren't for the necessity of the plot, the Joel we know and love would probably be like...
screw this storm once again i'll see you in hell and and he'd go back to the city especially given that he assumes right that ali is there probably yeah and in danger so oh yeah he's gonna rush off Well, because he's so motivated to go back to protect Allie, but there's also his brother. And so he's really motivated by altruistic reasons that he was willing to risk his life to save others, which it just comes together. And, you know, that's where we're at the kind of Greek tragedy level.
You just have to suspend some disbelief. Yes. The universe has conspired against Joel, has served him up. to abbey on a platter and then the storm which is you know the coming storm it's heavy symbolism But whenever in narratives, when you have a storm coming, it's not about the storm. And this, of course, is the two storms, which I just love. So they go back to the ski lodge with Abby. Now, at the same time. I got to tell you, Jay, you and I are long-term fans of the Siege narrative. Oh, yes.
A fandom that transcends zombie movies. Absolutely. It goes back to at least the birds from Hitchcock, but there's so many great siege narratives. Yeah, my favorite is Cujo, but yes. Oh yeah, Cujo. Cujo, I know you love Cujo. When we see that massive horde run into the wall at full tilt. That's pretty awesome. Because if you're going to have fast zombies, that's what you're going to get. You're not going to get this carefully orchestrated.
swarming over the walls like we get in World War Z, which is a fine film, but World War Z just seems too affected. This to me was so great because it's not like the Cordyceps is really interested in preserving the host. So they just ran into that. fortification loved it and I loved the deployment
of the barrel ramps. Yes, brilliant. And again, this is where I'm thinking it's Helm's Deep, man. They've got these fortifications. They've got these systems in place. It's also, I mean, it's Tirith, right? We're getting out the... trebuchet we've been preparing for this and training for this yes and then they chuck out the barrels and it's just like a turkey shoot and oh there's one great moment in this it's the close-up of all the spent shells
where the guys are like slipping and losing their footing because they're just standing on shell casings. Yes. Because they've fired off so much ammunition to try to take this zombie horde down. And then, you know, fire. So that's a good siege. Amazing. Yeah, it's tremendous. And what is the big, hefty, giant one called? What are those? All right. So the big ones from the video game are the bloaters.
And the rationale of the bloater is when the cordycepsis takes over a really, really large person, it functions differently than with the others because they can't. the the symbiosis lasts longer because the host survives longer so you end up the the bloaters are always like seven feet tall, muscular, because they used to be big and strong in their human life. And so the fungus is far more advanced. That's why it's like fungus suit instead of just their clothing with a lot of fungal.
Accoutrement? Yeah, right. Now, I could be way wrong on this, but when we saw the bloater in season one, I think the bloater was CGI. I'd have to go back and look at it. This bloater is a dude in a suit. And my one little gripe is it looks at times like a dude in a big fat suit. Really? See, I...
I don't 100% know, to be honest with you. I mean, I'll take your word for it. Yeah, to be honest, I wasn't sure exactly how they pulled it off. I think it looks pretty realistic. But Kyle, to your point. The way the bloater looks with the cordyceps suit on... It kind of does look like, I don't know, the bottom half of Grimace or whatever, whatever, like, you know, Muppet or Sesame Street character. I mean, it's. It does have kind of a, I don't know, that body shape isn't overly, I guess.
What's the word? It isn't really this like detailed. It's just kind of a big leg. Well, that's the thing. It looks. unrealistic because in real life it probably would also look unrealistic because it's a human being who has a thick layer of fungal growth all over him.
And so, yeah, it does kind of look bloated, hence the name, and covered with this stuff. Now, for the production, one of the main reasons he's covered in so much stuff is it has to be flame retardant because apparently the flamethrower stuff, real flamethrower, real dude in a suit.
Really? So that is a fact. That is a guy in a suit getting flamethrowered. That's what Internet Movie Database says. Wow. And so it's a flame retardant material, which is why it doesn't... catch on fire and they got a guy who they I guess they had in like an ice bath and then would have him put the suit on so he wouldn't get too hot when they torch him
So apparently that's all practical. And they had to train Gabriel Luna, Tommy, on how to use flamethrowers. And he actually ended up having nightmares. about torching people wow because of this sequence that took a couple days to shoot but yeah that's all that's all practical oh my goodness and i do love the tension that they build up right because
He's flaming him and the guy's not going down and the tank, the pressure on the tanks going down and he's flaming him. And then he runs out of fuel and he's out of bullets. And here comes this big burning bloater. And then he falls down. Yeah. It's like, oh, that was great. Because honestly. I thought Tommy was toast. Me too. Me too, because they're so hard to kill, right? Yeah, Tommy's...
Tommy's not making it out of this. So there was a little bit of a triumphant moment for me when Tommy made it and survived and was able to go out and join his wife, his love. And that they made it. They survived. And Jackson, while... devastated, does survive to fight another day. Now, it's interesting because what we talked about last week, the very end, right, they teased that the mycelia are in the pipes. Yes.
And that gets revealed again in this one, but somebody notices and that somebody goes to tell, but before he can tell anybody, Siege. Yes. So now the question is, does that guy then remember, oh, by the way, or is that guy one of the deaths? And now we don't know about it again.
I don't know. I don't know. Season episode three coming up. But this is now this isn't in the video game. Like I said, because the player character is not in Jackson during the siege. A lot of it's hinted at in the after effects and they wanted to add to the. TV show, a big production, big excitement, and I think they delivered. Oh, yes. That was really, really great. Incredible. So then we go back to our quieter narrative, which is the gut punch.
Joel and Dina find themselves in the clutches of the vengeful Abby and her cadre. And it's at this point where you should pay attention to the name of the episode. Through the valley. The valley of what, Joel? Joel. Jay. I got Joel on the brain. The valley of what, Jay? The valley of the shadow of death. Talk us through it.
I can't do it. I can't do it. I know. I know. You have to do it. So you want me to. Okay. So not only is Joel captured, we get to endure watching him be tortured. And by the way.
He lets her monologue for a while without saying anything. And then finally she's going to continue monologuing and he's just like, just shut up and do it you know and then we see her torture him and then she executes him while ellie witnesses oh that's brother i love dark i love disturbing but this was one of those moments i mean this was so affecting to me because
I'll just, let me just give you a little, and I know this is completely subjective. I understand that. But like, you know, yesterday as we, this released on Easter Sunday, this episode did. And, you know, I had a great visit with my kids and it was time to take them home. So I took them home and then, you know, like after a great weekend with them, it's like, oh, I miss my kids. You know, I come home and I'm like, but you know what?
I'm looking forward to The Last of Us. I get to watch this episode. So this was my little, it was supposed to be like, cheer me up and stuff. It was so devastating and just painful because. You know how I'm trying to think, make distinctions here, but like there's assault. And then there's aggravated assault where it's like, you know, when death happens in the most aggravating manner, which is something we've read before in like various texts.
But anyways, there is something about the viciousness and maliciousness of this Not just within the realm of the characters and what's happening, because obviously she is just eaten alive with her revenge and rage. But the creators of this show have no mercy for us.
either because I mean he is my he was my favorite character and of course you know I think a lot of viewers will pick protagonists that they relate with or they identify with you know and so there's that aspect of it So there were lots of reasons why this was so gruesomely affecting and also having been a part of 100 plus years of cinema. It's just not too often that you see the hero dispatched so mercilessly and disgustingly as we see here, Kyle.
Yeah, I agree. So as a fan of The Walking Dead, I know, you know, modern day cinema, modern day cinematic television, people aren't necessarily safe. I did not think they would do it. And so, yeah, I'm naive. It's that idea of, oh, my gosh, how's he going to get out of this? Because obviously he's going to get out of this.
Because it's Pedro Pascal, who's like a hot commodity right now. And then as the episode progressed and it got more and more upsetting and disturbing and brutal, like you say, I started thinking, oh my gosh. They're going to do it. I'm a little concerned. So, yeah. So, first off, like you said, the torture is brutal. And apparently it's worse in the game. Oh, no. Which is shocking. But, yeah, he gets shot in the knee. She bashes his wound with a golf club. Yes. She punches him into hamburger.
She freaks out the other people she's with because of the lack of control or restraint. And I was ready for that. You know, I've seen a lot of horror movies. So have you. We've seen this moment. And then it's like, oh, Ellie's going to make it. Ellie's going to make it. She's there. She's got her gun. Nope. No. She fails to save him. And then... Like you said, the real kicker here is she sees him get killed and he sees her witness his death. Yeah, which would be one of the worst things ever.
So bad. Yeah. And there is a cold brutality and realism to the final blow, which I found shocking because it reminded me a little bit of one of my favorite movies, The Village. Oh, yeah. Where the village has a scene where the violence is so realistically presented, it's twice as shocking. Because the business of death can be very quiet.
very sad. And so when I finally came to terms with the fact that, oh my gosh, they're actually going to do this, then I realized something that I have to come to terms with as well, and I'm going to see what happens. But clearly... Season one was Joel's story. And in order to make season two truly Ellie's story, we got to get Joel out of the way. This is not new, even though it sucks.
Because in the classic Joseph Campbell hero's journey, the hero has to lose the protector and the mentor and the guardian. Joel has become the bearded old man who has to leave her to her own devices like Gandalf, like... Dumbledore, Mike, Merlin, you know, pick your poison. So it makes perfect sense narratively that if this is going to be Ellie's hero's journey, she can't have Joel there to bail her out.
She's got to go it alone. And they were so good at this, right? See, episode one. See, this season is going to be a revenge narrative as Abby tries to kill Joel. Ha! Psych! It's a revenge narrative as Ellie tries to kill Abby. Yes, absolutely. That's true. And just to speak a little bit to the disturbing nature, when you talked about the quiet business of death. A really crazy touch that they put on this. is the way he's executed with that sharp, broken off golf club.
Stuck in the back of his neck. I assume that severed his brain stem or something. Oh, yeah. And his face is all beaten to hamburger, as you said. But they left his eyes open as well. So he's dead and his eyes are open, just staring. And man, that's, I mean, it is. Here's the thing. Even though it upset me in all the ways it was supposed to upset me, and even though he was my favorite character, and even though I don't like Ellie and I wish it would have been her. Just kidding.
But even though all of that, Kyle, I respected it so much. I love disturbing horror movies. I love when no characters are safe because you know what? That's how the world is. There is real life horror everywhere, every day, and it can just happen. So I respect it immensely. And even though it was, I don't want to sound too dramatic. It was a little bit of a traumatic experience watching it.
I agree. I absolutely agree. Yeah. Like I know maybe some people out there might make fun, but it was it was upsetting. But even though I still on some weird sick level as a horror fan, I loved it. Well, Jay, to whom does horror happen? Those who deserve it least, sir. Now, that's where this is so sophisticated. Did Abby have cause? Yeah. Joel killed her dad, a doctor who was unarmed. Now, granted, he did it to save Ellie, but she's getting her justice.
she's getting her old school justice. So then you become really conflicted. But at this point, think of everything that Joel has done. Think, hey, why can't they just be? Talk it out. Don't you equate, though, and I'm sure I'm not saying that you're condoning anything, but don't you equate her, what law enforcement refers to as overkill? Don't you equate that as... Like war crime, essentially. I mean, it was war crime level. Well, and it fulfills her...
It fulfills her promise from episode one. Make it snow. but yeah this is not a merciful just execution this isn't hey you committed murder now you have to die here's your shot to the head It's brutal and it's personal and it's vindictive. And like you said, it's – what did you say? It's not just – It's equated to like the war crime level. Yeah. So it's like a war crime or to her extent, a hate crime. Yes. And –
to do it with Ellie there is even, even worse. Right. Yeah. Do that in front of a child. And cause at least they knocked out Dina. Now, apparently in the video game, it's Joel and Tommy together at this moment. And I don't know exactly if Tommy's just knocked out like Dina was, but there is that extra layer, right? That Joel and Dina are close.
And she's unable to help him. And so Ellie shows up and you think, well, see, the real daughter is going to save him. And then she doesn't. And oh, man. And there's even another layer beyond that, Kyle, which is. And this is painful too. He ended up going on this run initially with Dina instead of Ellie. So in the beginning of the episode, you do get this little tinge. It's like... hmm I wonder if that makes her jealous you know and because of the way she treated him like the last
Her last treatment of him, right, was her scolding him terribly. So she's also got to kind of live with that. Oh, as well. Yeah, because it's that thing of what do you do when the last words you say to somebody are spoken in anger? Yeah. How do you come to terms with that? And I was so excited. to watch these two repair their relationship and so I feel hollow and empty like Ellie that it's never going to happen. Nope.
And the conclusion of the episode shows them returning to Jackson on horseback in the snow. And then just to really make sure. They show they're dragging Chul's body behind the horse. Also bleak. So just in case people are thinking, yeah, it's probably just a flesh wound, they'll get him home and no. Oh, no. No, he dead. Pedro is off the show, except perhaps in flashback.
brutal and devastating so I'm on an inanimate movie database and I went over to episode 2.3 Ellie Bella Ramsey is billed top Caitlin Dever is now billed second and Joel is way down the list because he may not appear again but granted you know he's busy making movies with Nicolas Cage and he's got a he's got a Grogu movie to do but but now now that we don't have him anymore can they please for heaven's sake make our protagonist likable she is so bad I mean
I really don't like her. I mean, I'm sure the actress is great, but her character is so unlikable. And Kyle, I've talked to others. Greg Amortis. I'm just saying I won't try to represent his views here, but he found her very hard to stomach as well because she's so off-putting. and her attitudes and behavior and the smart aleck and you know just on and on and it's like
It's hard to root for an unlikable protagonist. Like Joel was an anti-hero. And it's like, you know, we kind of get behind those kind of people because it's like, yeah, we're all imperfect. So, you know, you go get a Mahan Solo character, you know, but like with her, it's like, oh, why don't somebody take her out? Well, she's going to be way different now. And so it'll just we have to wait and see what it does.
Because, yeah, like I said, the hero's journey, once the guardian dies, the hero has to transform to a certain extent. So maybe she'll be more humble. Maybe she'll just be rage-filled. and worse or maybe I don't know we'll have to see where it goes because right now I'm a little bit more interested in Abby now granted I'm a little bit more I'm a lot more interested in Caitlin Dever But I'm interested to see where the storyline goes by pitting these two.
young women against each other both of whom lost their father figures yes and so it's going to be like the duel of the daughters and i'm excited about that i am too i just hope that they make this abby character I hope they give her a little more depth and dimension. I hope they fill her out. Make her a little bit more of a sophisticated character because thus far. Oh, yeah. There's not a lot to who she is. It is just hard to see this lovely young woman. You know, I just.
You just wouldn't judge. You wouldn't like at first blush judge someone like that to be so vindictive and nasty. Like, you know what I mean? Like if you look at Danny Trejo, for example. who's done time before. He was a convict before he was a movie star. Danny Dreho, you might look at him and be like, yeah, that guy could be capable of messing some people up.
But you look at like Abby and it's like, oh, does she sell Girl Scout cookies? You know, like she says this. But, you know, so I hope we get a little more understanding of what makes her tick. Yeah. No, and I can't imagine they won't because now the protagonists have shifted. And so Abby's got to be more than just this one dimensional vengeance character. And Ellie's got to change and grow as well and not be the girl from season one.
And so I do think we're going to get some... flashbacks especially for Abby because we already have but also because we need to develop her character more because you're right she's not developed yet Kyle, did you want when Abby was monologuing and Joel was just sitting there listening, which I thought was wise initially, did you want him to say anything to her like, hey, he was going to kill a little girl I loved?
So screw you. I just wanted to say, okay, yeah, I was wrong what I did, but they were going to kill a little girl I loved. Even if it's for the cure, I don't care. No, and I'll tell you why. Because remember last week in his therapy session, it's the thing he doesn't dare say. Yes, yes, that's right. So Joel has some really deep, deep guilt.
about lying to Ellie, but also about killing unarmed civilians and what he had to do to save her. So I think that joel especially when he says just get it over with right i don't think joel wants to plead his case because i don't think he feels he has one right okay so i think he is pretty much maybe he'd been waiting for this moment he knew it would come Or maybe he has some measure of peace about it because he knows he deserves to be punished.
I can't say for sure because he doesn't say anything, like you said, so we don't know what's going on. But I'm glad that he doesn't explain or grovel or beg. Oh, yeah. I like that he's just – he really just – confronts her with silence and lets her monologue
until he gets tired of it and then he doesn't after saying do it he doesn't speak again which is joel like this yeah i'll just get it over with so i did like that yes i did like that And I guess, again, I'm getting this secondhand, but in the video game, she doesn't monologue.
She just gets to the torture because the, her motivation is revealed later in the narrative. But Craig Mazin didn't want to leave the audience on the hook that long. Yeah. Figure out what the heck is their motive? Why is she doing this to him? so i like how it's playing out same um but it's stark it's stark and it's brutal and it's it's greek man it's I agree. Do you think that because and I know it's just the beginning of season two so far, but. I mean, like I said, we're two sevenths.
through the season. Do you think that these other individuals I would think at least somebody would have said something about... Ellie, unless it wasn't common knowledge that she had potentially the cure inside of her, is because the father was executed, they now don't even know how to perform that surgery, so it doesn't matter.
Or is Ellie still potentially, because I think if given that she's alive, there should be some sort of talk about, hey, there's still this girl who's resistant. Right. That was how I thought. it was going to turn. I was convinced of that, that one of them would recognize her and say, you know, Abby, forget this guy. We got to get her back. and that they would leave him battered and bruised but still alive and take her off with them so he has to hunt her down.
That's what I thought was going to happen. Now, in retrospect, we already did that. We already played that game, so we don't need that one again. I don't think they knew who she was. I don't think any of the quote-unquote kids, even if they knew about it, I don't think they knew what she looked like. OK. And so either they were completely kept in the dark because it was so top secret or if they did know about it, they didn't know enough to know it was her. Gotcha. Because clearly, if I think.
If they had realized, hey, this is the immune girl, no, I think you're right. I think they would have said, well, tie her up and let's take her. see what we can do um so i think it was just another it was no different than dina right oh it's another one of them because they don't really get a good look at her they take her out so fast and stand on her and yeah uh so yeah it works for me but it is it was enough of a tease to make the final blow even worse that it's like okay ellie's
immunity is not going to save anybody wow so oh the two last notes i have for you and this is kind of just jumping around a little bit but during the battle sequence the siege Number one, it was kind of humorous to me that they were doing the barrel thing with the fires and stuff because I'm like, I can see clearly that their walls are made of wood. Is this the best idea? I thought about that too.
I think that's why initially I thought, oh, that's why they're pitching the barrels out away from the wall. But of course, the flaming zombies would run up against the wall. So I guess it was just like, well. we can put the fire out later. We have to take care of this first. Weren't you in a band in high school called the Flaming Zombies? I was not. I was in a band in high school, but it was called the Cedar High School Jazz Band.
oh kyle that's so awesome i was in jazz band too what was your jazz band called john marshall high school jazz band and yes and i played the keys in there brother so yeah you did yeah so but um That's so funny. We're both jazz band nerds. And I don't even like jazz. But anyways, the other thing was, The release the hounds sequence. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. The attack dog. Yeah. What'd you think of the attack dogs? I really liked it. I'm not sure exactly how they trained him, but I don't care.
I don't think there is enough dog v. zombie action in the world. It was kind of a great cavalry to the rescue moment, but they're dogs. I like dogs. So I like that a lot. Yeah, I like Police Dog. And I like seeing that kind of action happen. And there is a... from a horror perspective it's very troubling because you see this dog get this zombified human by the throat and it's very upsetting because you don't often see that kind of thing anyways
Not since Cujo. Right. Which very few people realize is a zombie movie. You're saying that... No. I was going to say... let me let me see i'm dumb because i'm going back through my mind and i'm like well there is an infection of sores rabies well now you're gonna convince me yeah right yes
More dog action. Yes. All right. So rating on this one, are we going to rate this one too? Because we rated the last episode. Oh, absolutely. Let's rate these bad boys. I had a couple of hiccups, but talking to you. has removed them uh i'm just gonna go ahead and give this a 10 out of 10 i mean this is zombie entertainment at its finest
And it is it is emotional narration at its best. So, yeah, that's me in through the valley. Ten out of ten. Yeah, I I'm with you as well. This is a ten because the zombie attack. I mean, that battle secret, the Helm's Deep and Last of Us here is so incredible. And then, yeah, they had such gut. to do that to our hero. And it was affecting. And here's that, here's something that I say to people often, like sometimes when I'm talking to non-horror fans,
They'll say something like, oh, I don't like that kind of movie. It's so upsetting. This happened at the end. Like, I don't want to watch. Like, for example, Pet Sematary, spoilers for Pet Sematary 1989. In Pet Sematary, you're like, I don't watch that. The little boy dies. And it's like, hey.
This is a horror movie. I mean, that's what you're signing up for. And like when I get offended, like, for example, rarely it happens, but sometimes a horror movie will offend me. I'm like, you know, that's that. I don't love it. I don't love being offended, but hey, that's what you do when you jump in the ring with it. It's like getting on a roller coaster. You don't get on a roller coaster and be like, oh, that was scary.
no kidding that's what you're supposed to do you're on for the ride and however they're gonna g-force jerk you around and like everything I mean you you signed up for that that's what you sign up for in horror so that's why this is a 10 to me because it's like you know what this is a horror movie
so feel it feel this amen man and that if for anybody who thought this was a post-apocalyptic adventure science fiction that's horror this is horror all the way amen even though internet movie database says action, adventure, drama, and then horror. No. No. No, no. through the valley excellent excellent television excellent drama excellent horror and excellent excellent zombie so you do need to be checking it out tell your friends that this is good tv and hopefully tell your friends this
putting stuff out there for you. Tune in to next week where we'll talk about episode three that as of today has no title. So it is episode number 2.3 and we'll check that out like we do. Jay, it's been great talking to you. You too, sir. Thank you.