Well, folks, welcome. If you're listening to this, then you, like us, have made it to the end of season two of The Last of Us. It is I, it is I, it is you. What did you say? Yay. Oh, you said yay. Yeah, that was my celebration. There's a lot of subtext there, man. Yes. But it is I, Dr. Walking Dead. Or as my local friends call me, two broke rib. And I am joined by chicken piles. Yes. Dental support to the stars. I don't know.
Yeah, right. I still don't know exactly what you do. You write stuff for dentists. Yes. Well, now I make trainings for the employees who build websites for dentists. Yes, that's what I do. I'm a trainer. of sorts that is multi-layered you know me like an onion like an onion right that's right Well, we are here to wrap up our discussion and analysis of what was both simultaneously a very short season, yet in some ways a very long season of The Last of Us. I know we've got some haters.
so if you're one of the haters hey hater uh because i do i know some people are really enjoying this season i have i'm not going to perform a study jay but i'm wondering if fans of the game are finding the adaptation more favorable than those of us who are going in blind Well, and you probably know this better than I do. And I know that you can't really believe necessarily believe everything on the Internet. But I saw on social media, somebody put out a post. I'm suspicious of it.
But it said that season two, they lost 50% of their viewership from season two. But I don't know. That sounds high to me. It doesn't to me. It does not? I'll tell you why. I think losing Pedro, who is like super hot right now, really killed this show. And from what I've been seeing online about how people... are treating our girl Ellie Bella Ramsey actually yeah I think a lot of people are like look I was in I was in with Pedro
But if Bella's going to have to carry this show, then I'm out. Now, I don't agree with that necessarily. But I can see how, because now that we've got all seven episodes under our belt, how many, give me a number, Jay. Of seven episodes, how many would you say were high on zombies? Oh, only one, and it was episode two.
Which was tremendous. And I would just say, hey, you want to see something cool about zombies? Just watch episode two. But let me also clarify. I just want to put something out there for the record. I agree with the sentiments about, you know, losing our guys. losing Joel, but I want to say...
I have nothing against, especially all the sickening personal attacks that I think are ridiculous that people are doing on Bella Ramsey. Like, seriously, I think they're being so jerky now. They're terrible. There are terrible memes, but. But what I do want to say is that the character of Ellie, I can agree with what people are feeling. And it's nothing personal against the actress Bella Ramsey. It's just the character Ellie is so. Unlikable.
You raised a really frustrating topic that the toxic fan culture of the internet so frequently will attack the actor if they don't like the character. Yes. You just want to shake people and be like, you know that these are separate things, right? Right. It's very frustrating. And there have been terrible examples. I mean, honest to goodness, if I were acting like there are multiple.
So I won't take a lot of time, but like the dude in, um, in the first Ghostbusters that, uh, you know, Bill Murray says he something about him not having genitalia. This is, you know, and, and so. People would see that man his whole life. They would see him on the street, the actor, and call him that. And, you know, that must have really sucked. They would call him that with his family and everything. I'm just saying. And then, like, you know, in Game of Thrones, the kid who...
who played Joffrey, like, people wanted to kill that kid, which is understandable. Like, I wanted to kill the character, but the actor... he was just playing a character anyways i'm with you it does it does bring us back to one of the issues with this season though is i found joel the character very likable now we talked about this last
season when we talked about season one i like that he's an older rugged guy you know he's he's in his late 40s early 50s whatever we decided yes he's got that paternal drive he's he's got a lot of the things that are appealing in an anti-hero yes
It's really easy to get on board, especially a guy with such a noble quest, right? Take care of this girl. Yeah. Yeah. And it was... operated so well in tandem with other such narratives about which i have i've discussed in the past but to try to have ellie as a character drive a narrative is challenging because she is not a naturally likable
person and it's hard although we have a great tradition of revenge narratives i think a season of television is hard to carry when the only real motivating plot line is revenge now maybe that's just me but i i can see why people bailed on this show yeah mostly though because you're promising a zombie show and it's really uh a teenage melodrama yeah that just happens to take place during a zombie apocalypse and this episode this episode convergence is probably the biggest example of that sin
and i know this is because of the game mechanics and i have more to say about that later but this is an episode in which there is a gigantic war going on a post-apocalyptic war between two survivalist groups and we don't see any of it Right. So it's kind of like we're watching the ending of Star Wars.
And we're not anywhere near Yavin 4. We're just like, in this case, going to the grocery store while the Death Star's blowing up. It's like, no, we want to go where the Death Star is. But even that, it's not... a zombie thing it's just two groups that have an ideological difference that are fighting um where are the zombies man i just spent too much of this episode asking that question
this is supposed to be a zombie show yeah and i think the problem with the video game and i know i'm speaking out of no experience here is the zombie stuff in the video game is the grinding action that doesn't translate into narrative. Whereas the narrative structure of the video game is probably zombie free because we have a protagonist who's immune.
So that's a very that's an excellent point. And I just want to, you know, detract and distract from your excellent points you're making to make a joke here. Sorry, this is what I do with Kyle. Everybody. Yes. Yeah, especially when you were making a brilliant point. But you're forgetting about the monster in this episode because we did, Kyle, get a monster in this episode. And it was Grover.
the monster at the end of this book. Yeah. So we got, we got Grover in this episode. So there you go. All you whiners out there who wanted monsters. They showed us Grover. Which is the greatest children's book of all time? Agreed, 100%. It's so good. I would have loved to have heard you read that. In fact, Kyle, you know what I would love? I would love to have you read that to me one of these days.
All right, when we have our first sleepover. Okay, deal. I'll read it to you to soothe you to sleep. Are we still recording? No, you said. So anyway, I want to go back to what you said because it was so smart. It never even occurred to me that. Yeah. What would the function be of zombies to threaten our protagonist when our protagonist now. has a total immunity. So they really aren't, you know, they aren't really dangerous to her. So good point. Okay. So, well, let's jump into it.
we pick up where episode five left off because remember all of episode six is flashback and dina has been shot through the leg with a crossbow bolt and jesse the rejected lover going to patch her up okay so what ellie suddenly just shows up and is kind of a i don't know this is going to be extreme but but when ellie shows up at the theater where they're hanging out she acts like a victorian heroine who has been separated from her her lothario
Because that's all she cares about is finding out. Okay, fine. Everybody knows that I'm not the greatest when it comes to romance plots and I sometimes poo-poo them. But I thought her behavior was really extreme. Yes.
Whatever. And then we get this moment between Ellie and Dina that was just weird, man. I don't know how to... to describe it do you mean when they realize that the quest they're on is actually not a righteous quest and then they're like oh we need to go home and it's like oh thanks so this whole season was pointless just like we suspected yeah
but it's the dynamics it's like they're happy to see each other but they're like not once once ellie gets in the room there's like no romantic chemistry whatsoever yeah that's true and ellie's like oh how's your leg and tina's like take your shirt off so i can see how badly bruised you are yeah there's no there's no sexual tension there's no chemistry It's like a board meeting. Especially when the character says, take your shirt off. Yeah. Yeah. And it's so clinical. Yes.
So, you know, you remember Indiana Jones, when Marion's like, take your shirt off. Yeah. So she can tend to his wounds. Yes. It's totally sexual tension. Yeah. And this, it's like. It's not the years, honey. It's the miles. Well, yeah. So in episode five, they're telling us these two are madly in love. And now it's like they're roommates that don't actually really like each other. Yeah, it does feel that way. You're exactly right.
100 it didn't work for me the only one who shows any passion is jesse right it's like hey i'm in love with you uh yeah but then we find out he's actually not and i don't whatever so yeah whatever What your point is the better point. Oh, I didn't kill the person I wanted to. I killed someone else and I didn't get the information I needed. So let's just go home.
Well, technically, right, she did not end up killing Nora, right? She left her to die, which is even crueler. And be infected and be a, yes. But no, we didn't see that though. P.S. By the way, we didn't, we didn't see Zora Nora as a zombie. Can't show us zombies on this zombie show, everybody. So anyway, go ahead. Well, and Jay, how do most horror fans feel about the offscreen death?
Oh, we despise it. It's such a cop-out. It is a cop-out. Yeah. Kind of like deus ex machina, but we can talk. We'll get to that, I'm sure. But anyways, yeah, don't even get me started on the deus ex machina in this episode. it's pretty bad so then we get the episode title and i alluded to this last time okay convergence okay we get it the different plot lines are all going to come together we've got the wolves we've got the seraphim we've got ellie we've got tommy
and allegedly we have the fungus. Remember the fungus? That was cool. What fungus? Anyway, and then just in case we don't pay enough attention, two giant thunderstorms are converging over Seattle. Oh, yes. That's a little heavy-handed. Or a lot heavy-handed, yes. And we do this quick exposition. Oh, yeah, we found you guys, even though it's all in Seattle, because...
There really was only one path into the city and we found your horse that you've neglected. What? All right, whatever. So they're going to retreat. They're going to leave Seattle and leave the horse. I don't know why I'm so mad about that. Yeah, well, it's Simmer. Simmer. In this rainstorm, crazy Jeffrey Wright playing Isaac. He's like, we're going to go to battle and we're all going to die.
But nobody knows where Abby is because she's the future. And we got to go find Tommy. And so we get out onto the lake. I don't know. It's not a beach. What is it in Seattle? It's like a... It's a sound. It's a bay. I don't know my geography. And Abby is off at the aquarium. And I don't know exactly how she could tell it was the aquarium across the bay in the dark, but she does.
and they decide for no apparent real logical reason to split up and ellie's gonna go out to find abby in this motorboat that she just happens to find That is in perfectly running condition, even though we're 25 years into the apocalypse. All right. I feel I need to hand off to you because I'm just, I'm losing it. No. Well, once again, I just wanted to make a stupid joke. Do you remember that movie?
The Perfect Storm. Yes. Well, I did not like that movie, and I remember my friend. I didn't either. When my friend saw that movie, he called Bill Barnes. He comes up in podcasts often. Bill Barnes called it the perfect suck. I think since this has a convergence of storms as well, we could call this the perfect suck season two.
Oh, brutal. Anyway. I'm not disagreeing with you, but that's harsh. Anyways. My only problem with the perfect storm is how do they know it really happened if everybody dies? That's right. Anyway. Yes. So Ellie goes out in this.
this little motorboat and gets caught in these giant waves, which are probably not super accurate for the geography. Right. She capsizes, but luckily there's no... peril at all because even though she capsizes she and the boat just wash up to shore and within a few feet of each other
And everything's fine. She's immune. She's immune to death. She's immune to everything. And I had a little bit of a problem. If I fall out of a boat in the Bay of Seattle... in a rainstorm at night and i've got a 40 pound pack on yes i'm sinking to the bottom right and dying yep But Ellie crawls to shore wearing a backpack that is bigger than she is, and she's totally cool. So I got hung up on that. And then it's like, wait, she's going to get captured by the seraphim.
Yes. Okay. Yes. Now something's going to happen. Yes. We got the seraphim. We got the noose. We got the creepy priestess with her sickle, played by Kendra Anderson, by the way. and i'm like okay this is exciting we're now going to get something and it's going to get really high tension yes you know is she gonna have to fight back is somebody gonna come save her no they're just like oh the this war has started we gotta go bye
Yeah, and they leave her there. They don't even quickly execute her? No, they just leave her. As if they wouldn't execute this prisoner quickly. We don't have time for our weird ritual, so just... Drop her in the dirt and we'll go away. So there's this moment of tension and conflict that is almost, before you can even feel tense or worried for Ellie, it's over.
it's like there's no way to build up like oh okay uh okay i guess that's over yeah and then there's this great battle going on within the distance and we see these explosions And that's where all the soldiers are. But we're not going to go there. We're not going to go see that. Because that's where they're filming some other more entertaining show. Yeah. Some other shows over there. We're going to go into this aquarium, which is...
Again, I will say this show is so amazing with its production design. Okay. In creating these spaces that look post-apocalyptic. Yes, that's true. Like the Natural History Museum last week. and the aquarium this week. Great job, team. Looks great. Beautiful, beautiful job. Yes. So Ellie goes in, wanders around, and she almost immediately finds Owen and Mel.
who are from Abby's group. Yes. Played by Spencer Lord and Aurelia Barrer. And that, okay, whoa, standoff. Standoff, tension. Vengeful Ellie, unhinged. These two survivalists. who actually don't support Abby and her vengeance quest. What are they going to talk about? What are they going to do? Oh, the scene's over. Yup. Ridiculous. And then, go ahead. It continues to be ridiculous, though. It actually devolves into further ridiculousness. So, yes. Owen goes for a gun. Ellie shoots him.
to her own surprise i don't have a problem with that we find out that ellie's gun is really powerful because not only does she shoot owen she also shoots mel and she shoots the locker behind them And as Owen falls and dies, it is revealed that Mel is in fact pregnant. Dun, dun, dun. Like. dina yes see what we're doing here jay right parallelism see what we're doing i do ellie is committed to protecting dina and her unborn child because in the apocalypse
The most important thing would be procreation. And now Ellie has inadvertently, in her blind revenge lust, killed a pregnant woman. Right. Yeah, unintentionally, but yes. And this revenge driven woman is all of a sudden just weeping. And it's like, hey, dummy, what do you think is going to happen when you start shooting at people? Oh, it just makes me crazy.
Well, and so Mel is pleading with Ellie to just cut the baby out of her. And I will say at that moment, I was thinking, oh my gosh, what are they, is she going to do it? Yeah. Is she going to, is that where this show has come? well that would have at least been something right it would have hell he doesn't no uh because yeah she's in shock and the lady dies and so the baby dies
And this is another one of those moments where The Last of Us is reminding us how serious this show is and how HBO Max the show is. Right. And then what happens, Jay? I'm trying to remember. Do you remember what just suddenly and conveniently happens next? Oh, yeah, I do remember right here. Right here is when all of a sudden Tommy and Jesse show up again, right? Yeah.
they just they're just right there yep of all of seattle once again they just happen to know exactly where ellie is and they just walk in and they're like hey sup yeah well you killed these people So let's head home. And Tommy, by the way, not Tommy. I keep calling Jesse Tom. Jesse looks at Ellie with such disgust. Like I read on his face.
see you are such a narcissist you just killed a pregnant woman with your narcissism right and then like literally moments later he's like coming around and warming up to her again Right. No, but I loved how you said that because it made me think of a weird version of Clue that Mel was killed in the aquarium by the narcissism. Because you're right. All right, so fine, it's over. Tommy's like, we got to get out of here. We got to go back. Ellie's like, geez, what has vengeance turned me into?
I've murdered three people and an unborn baby, and I didn't kill the person I wanted to kill in the first place. So we should just leave. And it's okay, so let's leave. And then out of nowhere. Out of nowhere. Jesse gets shot. In the face. In the face. Yes. And, okay, I will say, I have a little bit to say here. Yeah, let's do it. I will say, as far as the narrative goes, this is pretty effective for a horror narrative. Yes.
this episode has got us sympathizing with jesse he's he's this love lauren lovesick puppy who was deeply in love with dina but then got over because he met a canadian girl yes which cracked me up because it's like it's like jesse's telling ellie well i have a new girlfriend but she's from canada yeah so you won't ever meet And P.S., that story really ticked me off. I'm like, Jesse, you're an idiot for not going with her. But anyways. I know. Total idiot.
yes but but i i can see that we we like jesse we sympathize with jesse and now he's been brutally murdered that's really good horror storytelling yes righteous hero problem is it's okay i was trying to work through this and so this is not a complete thought i think one of the challenges of adapting a video game is that in the cinematic adaptation the
Characters have more development than the side characters in a video game So in a video game, you know, you've got all these these NPCs But unless you actually control one of their avatars I don't think you get much of an emotional connection to them. This is just my experience of playing video games. But with the series, we've seen enough of Jesse, and we've got a good actor here in Young Mazzino.
i'm not calling him young that's actually his name yes uh young mazzino and so his death is pretty jarring and shocking and i would i would hazard to guess that it's more shocking in the show than it would have been in the video game but i could be totally wrong yeah i feel a little bad i feel a little bad then because you know when joel dies we get the cinematic equivalent of a requiem
And Jesse is mowed down, and it's like, so? Now, granted, the pacing is really fast. Abby's there. She's got a gun to Tommy's head. Ellie doesn't know what to do. We didn't really have time to mourn Jesse. or to develop the moment. But it felt really disconnected to me. Yeah. There should have been at least a little more look of horror on people's face that Jesse was just... slaughtered i mean just for a second at least like whoa they could have given us
A little bit of slow motion, not too much. They could have given us a swell in the score. There are ways to very quickly convey to a cinematic audience an emotional response. Now maybe the coldness, the calculated... a starkness of it was intentional yeah but it rang weird to me because we just saw a very emotional death with mel a character we hardly know and don't even care about and maybe that's the point
Maybe that's the point is that even though Ellie kind of is on this murder quest, she has an emotional response to killing Mel, whereas Jesse's death means nothing to Abby. Maybe. Yeah. I could be reaching. No, I think it's fair. So then we get the promised showdown. This is it, Jay. We've been waiting since episode two. Ellie's finally facing Abby. They're right there face to face.
And then that's it. And then Ellie starts whining like a little, like a little bee. I'm serious. I was so mad at the, at the way she was behaving. in Abby's presence. It's like, hey, this is the person that you have been like just absolutely determined. To come and get. And that's all the ferocity. Which is zero. Zero ferocity toward her. Especially since she just shot Jesse in the face. You know. It makes me think of a quote. Which is.
I let you make season two and you wasted it. You wasted it. Do you like that? What's that quote? Is that original? Well, because Abby. screams it at the very end. I let you live and you wasted it. You wasted it. But I'm saying, no, well done. Yes. Thank you. No, I get you. And so. Abby appears to be unmoved and appears to shoot Ellie and end of season. But we're just not that lucky.
Yeah, I know. I know it. It absolutely appears undeniable that she shoots Allie. And then, you know, the screen goes black, of course. And then and then it does something. That just irked me. Yeah. Why don't you take that part? Okay. And then, so yeah, after we hear the gunshot, we don't see what happened. And then it's like cut to black. And then all of a sudden, Seattle. Day one. It's an Abby flashback. It's like, no, no, I don't care anymore. I don't care. I don't.
even like this show after season two I seriously I you know remember when season one ended and I'm like oh when when are we gonna get season two I can't wait and now I'm like yeah Don't, yeah, don't even bother. I don't care. Correct. So yes, we have had, we have been following Ellie and Dina through day one, day two, day three of Seattle. And now the cliffhanger is.
Did Ellie just get shot? And the hook, the teaser for season three is, now we're going to go tell the same story, but from Abby's point of view. And unfortunately, even though I love Caitlin Dever. Yes. At this point, narratively, the audience has no investment in Abby. Correct. We've barely seen her. And what we've seen of her is a two-dimensional killing machine. Just vengeance. Yeah, very unlikable. And now we're going to be, oh, good.
Let's go follow her story and what happened to her over the last three days. Okay, I like that move, but not between seasons. Right. Agreed. it's ill-placed to now go tell the parallel narrative yes especially if they're going to make us wait one two years whatever it is yes and so i loved
Again, the production design, I loved the idea of, and sports fans are going to be mad at me, but whatever, the Seahawks dome, whatever. I don't know what it's called. But that they've set up the Wolf camp inside the football stadium. him that was pretty cool yeah but to just bring that to that point and say okay abby day one bye see you next season yeah
Bad placement. Because the problem is, we don't care. I mean, I don't. I'll just say that. I don't. I just don't. And I'm not being, I feel, I'm not trying to be... Unfair, Kyle. I mean, seriously though, you... And I feel more bad for you because number one, you have two broken ribs and you were disappointed by this because you held out hope. You were hoping that they would be able to, you know, bring this around. So I feel bad for you.
Well, and I'm a sucker, so I'm still, I'm not hopeless. I'm still hoping that that season three will... We'll bring us around. You're like Linus in the pumpkin patch at the end with The Great Pumpkin. Yeah, it's going to turn around, man. The Great Pumpkin is never coming. in three act narratives or trilogies the second one is often the least powerful because it's a bridge between the first and the third now there's exceptions the empire strikes back the price strikes back
In my opinion, Two Towers. Yes. I think we can have a really strong second installment. Right. But this is not it. This is not how you do it. No. No, it's not. So this is interesting to me. Over on the old internet movie database or, you know, shout out to Mac. Yeah, that's Joel's word, by the way. Oh, sorry. Sorry, Joel. Joel says MDBA. Yes. Mac probably says something more profane. Knowing Mac. But what we've got here is we've got an episode, a season finale.
and i'm stalling because i'm having trouble finding it where is it no problem no i like you you're building up better suspense than the last of us season two right thank you this episode has a 6.4 rating which is which is pretty low for last of us
But here's what's interesting to me. The most, so statistically speaking, now I'm going to embarrass myself with statistics. Okay. The most common... of the reviews the ratings like the mode i can't remember yeah but the rating that got the most votes was actually one right more people gave this a one
than gave it any other numerical rating yes that's true this is not a good way to end season two because if you have a season finale that the majority of viewers hated and then you're going to give him a one to two year hiatus who's coming back who's coming back
I'll make you come back with... Right, because I love talking to you, so I'll watch it only because of you. But I'll tell you this. I bought the first season. The day I saw it in Walmart, I bought it immediately. I will not... purchase this season and i'm a completist and that sucks that hurts because i won't get episode two of season two which was tremendous but i know but you know how come
See, episode two should have been this finale. That's how you do a finale is something like that. But anyways. No, I agree. So you want, at the end of a second act, like the aforementioned Empire Strikes Back, you want a second act to end super high. Yes. You don't want the peak of your second act to be... episode two of seven you just can't so i was all psyched for all you know convergence i was excited for everything to converge and for us to have just a kick-ass
final episode that has us going, no, no, I can't imagine waiting that long. Right. Because I remember watching Empire. Yeah. And there goes Lando and Chewie. And the credits start, and you're like, no, no, what happens next? What happens next? And it was excruciating to wait so long for Jedi to come out. Convergence ends, and you're like, meh.
I'm glad we're done with this for a while. Yeah, now I get a break. It's gotten to the point where me, as a zombie scholar, you as a horror podcaster, this show... Has started to feel like work. Yeah, truly, truly. Well, not like play. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Because here and I have a perfect contrast just because.
I have been, along with this show, I have been keeping up with the gangster show Mobland because they release each week about the same time. And that's a tremendous gangster show that I love. And so I will just wait on pins and needles. all week to get to Mobland. I watch the episodes. I love it. And when it's over, I'm super sad. And then I'm like, oh, well, I guess I gotta watch Last of Us now.
thank you season two for turning last of us into homework yeah yeah now it's kyle let's let's let's examine one more thing too because here's the thing the most popular episode It seems to me happened to be the episode that had the most zombies in it. I don't know. Coincidence? I think there may. There may, in fact, be some sort of relationship there. Yeah, yeah.
All right. So love letter to Neil Druckmann and his team. I know you're adapting a video game and you were somewhat constrained by that adaptation, but. The fans would like to make one small request about season three. Could we have more zombies? Please. I don't think that's an unreasonable request. No, no, not for a zombie show. I mean, because you tell me you played the first Last of Us video game, the first one. Yeah. Was that a zombie video game? Oh, yeah. Okay, that was the premise, right?
there were so many zombies basically zombies zombies okay yeah i thought that's where we were yeah i could have sworn and it pains me to ask this what about all the the fungi I knew it. I knew it. You know, I can't tell whether you're Linus from Peanuts or whether you're like Mario from Super Mario Brothers, all worried about the pipes. Yeah, the whole, the whole. season hey that was the that was the cliffhanger of episode one
The mycelia network has infiltrated the pipes. Guys, guys, please, for Kyle's mental health and well-being, please answer the pipe question for him. Please, could you just address... the pipe i knew i knew you were gonna ask about that that is so funny oh well well dare dare i ask How you would rate this episode, my friend? Yes, and may I request, can we do this episode and then a rating for this season as well? Yes. Okay, okay. So this episode, Convergence, this is a...
remembering that what, what was the first episode? I was like, what was I a two on that one? I believe you, I think you were a three. Okay. Yeah. I was low, low. I'm going four on this four out of 10. Four out of ten for convergence. Yes. Did not like it. What say you? Well, this may be surprising. As a Last of Us apologist, I am going to rate convergence a five out of ten.
and i don't know i was gonna say the reason why mine's one point higher than yours is and i don't know i can't answer that i'm just gut i'm going with five because i still have a little bit of hope jade is not no but this was this was really this was one of the worst episodes and and the problem is by being a season finale episode
The standards of evaluation were unfortunately much higher, which is unfortunate for the episode. But if it's going to be a season finale, it's got to bring it. And this did not bring nothing. And, you know, I mean, I guess we could. Be fair by saying in the future when someone is binge watching these and they can go seamlessly right from this last episode into the very next one, you know, back to back.
then it might not be as egregious, you know, but for us, it was like, while we're watching it live, you know, it's like, it doesn't work. Do you agree with that or not? Here's another thing. I do agree with that. Okay. Here's an interesting thing. So episode one of this season that you gave a three, I can't remember what I gave it. I think I gave it an eight. The internet movie database, 37,000 people gave it a collective 7.3.
Episode two, which we've talked about, best episode of the season, 55,000 people rated it, and it has a 9.2. And may I just say, I think that episode two of this season... is probably the best of the whole series thus far, even out of season one and season two for me. Tremendous. It's in the top three for me. Yeah, I mean, that was a 10. But anyway, go ahead. Sorry. Last week's The Price. only had 24 000 people log in a score and gave it an 8.6 convergence has only had 16 000 votes
So viewership has collapsed over the course of season two. Yeah. Yeah. And the popular opinion is that there are too many. valleys in the echocardiogram of this season's ratings. Right. Because episode three, episode four, and episode seven are all under seven out of 10. Now that doesn't mean anything. We know that internet movie database ratings are irrelevant, but it does.
matter to me when the data we can see from a wiki matches our own more uh scholarly approach yes so i would say yeah we got a problem here with season two i'm gonna hold out for season three And I would love it if season three is a barn burner where when we get to the end of season three, you say to me, you were right, man. You were right to keep the faith. Thanks for bringing me on this journey. I'm gonna order.
I'm going to order season two right now just so I can have the full set. Wow. That's my goal. Okay. I like that. So what is your rating for season two then? Oh, man. Yeah, the whole season. This pains me.
but um and we've never really talked about this we've always talked about talking about it on new horror movies okay we want to talk about how everybody does their ratings yeah i really do a gut check just kind of my inner critic just throws out a number and sometimes that number is not the number i want but it's the number i get okay and the last of us season one i'm really in like 10 out of 10 country i think that that is a nice fabulous way to tell a multi-episode story okay season two
I'm giving it a 7 out of 10, which is probably higher than you are, but it's lower than I want to be able to give it. That's lower than you want? Yeah, I want to be able to give it higher. You have the dark night of ratings is what it is. I want it to be higher. It's not the rating you want, but it's the rating it deserves right now. It's true. So I am giving the season a 7 out of 10, which unfortunately is generous.
But I got to say that episode two really swung the curve and saved the season from total misery and despair. So 7 out of 10. Dare I ask. Yes. Your rating. Yes. Well, given everything that you've said along the way about production design and we've celebrated performances, especially Pedro Pascal and his...
In the previous and the price, that performance was just incredible. And the magnificence of episode two was just off the charts phenomenal. So given all of that, put together with my... disdain for pretty much everything else i'm a four out of ten on season two yes and i would say avoid Except for watching episode two just in a vacuum. Just watch episode two in a vacuum. You'll have fun. And that's it.
that's where i am kyle i mean i am and i and it doesn't i i take no joy in being the ron martin of our last of us reviewing of things you gotta be you gotta be true to jay that's right and you know i think it's not as entertaining for listeners if we agree right so you took the bullet yes
I would like to hear from others, from listeners, if anybody wants to chime in. And I know Greg Amortis has been watching this season. Yeah. So I'd love to see how Greg and Pearl feel about it. Maybe they saw something we didn't. Please do comment, share. Let us know what you think. In fact, as we're recording this, Greg has recently lost his voice because he was under the weather. But I'm just wondering if you would like me.
to invite them to, like, tack on a little, you know, have them record just a brief, like, okay, what did you guys think of season two? And we could put it in here for the other listeners who also enjoy hearing from.
greg and pearl how about that kyle would you like that on the end of this okay that would be amazing yeah we'll do that the two of them would just throw together a nice little here's our counterpoint or our echo chamber either way i think it'd be interesting to hear what they think same same okay all right well listeners this brings us to the close of season two of uh new horror movies jay the dead's new horror movies exclusive coverage of the last of us but but fear not
Because we have other content that will be coming to you, just non The Last of Us content. Right. Until season three, right, Kyle? Until season three, and then we'll be back. We're going to see this thing through time. Until the end, Jay. Yes, we are. We're completists. Yes. We're going to get there. Absolutely. Because, yeah, this is how I'm going to warm up and get in shape for doing The Walking Dead at some future.
point when we're retired as you said when we start that podcast an episode a week Until one of us die. Yeah, yes. Which we probably get there before the end of all those episodes. Yeah, well. Loyal listeners, thank you for tuning in. If you're still there. And if you've followed us through to the end of this journey, please do tune in to Jay of the Dead's new horror movies for Dead Man's Still Walking.
and our other great segments and sequences and coverage do make time to see new 2025 horror films i always kind of wait till june to get started on that project i don't know why but I have seen five 2025 movies so far. Nice. And we'll bring you our thoughts and ratings and recommendations. And if you're lucky. you'll get some really good arguments.
So come back. Come back and listen to what we got. We got eight other tremendous hosts. Yes. Thank you, Kyle, for doing this. And behold, as we conclude this, we will turn it over to the Mortises. Hey, guys and gals. I am Greg Amortis along with my wife, the Twisted Temptress. Hey, Pearl. Hey. And we have been asked or invited, I guess we should say, by Jay of the Dead. hey to you too as well as kyle the man dr walking dead bishop that's right we love kyle hey
Jay had reached out. He's in Frankfurt, Germany right now. But Jay reached out and wanted to get our thoughts on the season two.
on max of the last of us yeah because we've been watching it and jay and and kyle have done such a phenomenal job breaking each episode down of season two uh in great detail in spoiler fashion which is fine because that's what they do and they warn you right it has been refreshing to hear it because To pull back the curtain, Pearl, every Sunday when this was coming on, it's been off for a week now, every Sunday I would text Jay, have you watched it yet?
because it was like those moments where you would be okay i need to ask you and i wanted to know your thought and then i just finally quit asking because i was like i'll just hear the episode and just listen to what him and kyle say right yeah uh so anyway so he has reached out to us to get our thoughts on what we thought of season two of the last of us and and this is going to be our quick take of of the series of season two i should say not season one but season two yeah
Okay, so there was seven full episodes. Indeed. And... You know, they aired. Here's the thing. Like, Max fooled us a little bit because they would say, like, it's like 50 minutes or an hour. But sometimes they were only like 40 minutes and they'd have behind the scenes that would take up some time. Like, you little. punks uh but anyway so we're going to break down each episode
We won't go into full, full-blown details. You've already heard Jay and Kyle talk about that, but we'll just give our little take on it, okay? So here we go. It's Season 2, The Last of Us, and we've got Season 2, Episode 1. pearl which is called future days uh what'd you think of this episode what kind of took place i thought it was cleverly done because i mean
Last season, you know, it was mostly about Joel and Ellie, you know, her being just cargo and a mission of him keeping her alive. And in this season, you know, we now see a much older Ellie, 19 years, 5 years. have passed and joe did exactly what he was supposed to do he kept her alive trained her and we come to find out that he also like you know treated her like a father
There was more to it than that. And I thought it was a nice sentiment. You knew something was kind of coming, but you didn't want to think that. But we also knew something else was coming because there was also someone looking for Joe. Exactly. Episode one, I was quickly frustrated with Ellie, like in this whole series. And there's going to be a. Rounding theme about season two is that Ellie's character has tremendously got on my nerves.
Like, to the point, that bullying point. She does so many things that makes me just despise her as a character. Not her as a person. Now, I'm talking about in the series, right? As a person, as a human being, she's probably salt of the earth, right? But her character... is so annoying to me. I get so frustrated with her. I feel like I just want to bend her over my knee and whoop her ass because she does so many things that make you question humanity.
like she doesn't think before she acts you mean rules for a reason right she is constantly putting everybody at risk she is constantly and we'll find out really soon something that she does that causes something really drastic all these sayings she does it irritates me to the to the
oh i'm just like every time she's on screen i'm just screaming i'm like i do not like you i think it's because she confuses her immunity to things to being unstoppable true she thinks she's unstoppable yeah because she's not yeah but because she can't be infected. We, we find out in season one and now definitely season two. Right. So she does act like she has that aura around her. Like, Hey, I don't care. They bite me.
But she doesn't think that what she's doing is causing other people to have to go help her or go find her. Well, then, see, I think episode one did justice right then, because hearing you say that. It's exactly how this episode is. It is coming from a father's point of view. Yeah. She's the typical teen who hasn't been able to do teen stuff. So now she's doing what? Like her first kiss, you know, she's angry about being lied to.
You know, she's looking to be rebellious. You know, she's doing things she shouldn't. And it takes off. Joel has a step in that and it's taking you off right now because you're watching this knowing that you would probably. Do the same thing if you weren't in that position. Well, as a father of a daughter, 100%, I would have totally locked her in a room, told her to shut the hell up, and I would have busted her ass.
Stop. I get you're a teenager and you're rebellious or whatever, but come on. You got to have some common sense. Episode one frustrated me to the.
to the gill i was so frustrated with her i'm like love joel and and i i like dina we're introduced to dina which is an amazing character who i've thoroughly fell in love with in this series as a character man i really enjoy where her character goes even joel says that she's the one person who treated him like a human being no questions right yeah and he hangs out with her
more than ellie in this season man i'm gonna go figure well what little bitties are uh but anyways all right so episode two love we go into through the valley what happens in through the valley Well, during Valley, a whole bunch of stuff happens. It's like, you know, Abby's recalling a memory of what happened and you kind of get to know why she's even after Joel without saying it fully yet. And, you know, her obsession becomes intense. You know, we won.
We want to know. We want to hurry up and know. But at the same time, while, like, Joel and Dina are out there trying to, like, look for something, they come across her, save her. In the meantime, like, their community is going up in flames because...
infected it's running there after them and you know you got a whole bunch of this and that going on and then you come to find out like in the end of this episode how heartbreaking it is you're watching in chalk like did This really happened so early in the season and you're like, what the hell?
yeah that's the thing so episode two the whole joel and dina thing and and they're out on patrol and we see abby that whole situation uh we find out you know because abby and her crew is from the wolves and You know, that whole situation there, I get the gist. She wants to hunt Joel down because Joel killed her father.
Yes. Well, we don't know. We don't know it yet, but we do eventually find out. So we know that she's out looking for Joel. And then, like you said, the fact that Joel finds her, you know, out of all these places they could be in the. world and abby's worried about finding joel they don't even know his name they don't even know they just know he's a handsome guy they know details they just don't know personally what he looks right and then he just pops up and like i'm joel and you're like oh god
And then what ends up happening is seven episodes. I get that you have to speed some things up for seven episodes. But holy crap, episode two. I know.
I'm like, what? That was shocking. I'm like, I'm done then. I don't even need to watch it anymore because Joel's my only character. It's the only one I like. And I like Dina. But other than that, I'm like, why do I even watch the show now? Like, what the heck? You're going to make me have to watch this freaking... brad of a kid ellie for five more episodes like come on bro like oh so heartbreaking such a rough episode to watch but no matter what it still kept you invested yeah i kept watching
because I still want to know what's going on, right? Oh, and then episode three, the path happens. Yeah, that one was, I mean, now the roles have turned because Ellie walks in. She sees Joel being tortured and killed in front of her face. So now, like, she wants that revenge. Now she's going to be the one looking for Abby.
And it's like her being her, like you said, you know, she doesn't listen. She acts before thinking. She's already going to kind of in ways put Dina into the situation. So already she's. invested on doing something she should not be doing she doesn't listen to rules for reason and you know you see them sadly you know
Being on a horse, Jesse comes, takes them home. And, of course, to bury Joel and all that. But it's like, you already have war going on. You got a group named Scars that have scars on their face. You got the wolves, you know, the dead. they just want to kill people it's like you're literally in a fearful war and it's like it scares the crap out of you you know it just
And again, I was still invested because I want to see what happens. I want to see. And it's not even about the revenge. I just want to see like, honestly, I was invested because of the pain, the pain of Joel not being there and what was going to happen. and after like did she learn enough from him will it change her to be better you know i just wanted to see that yeah that's why i'm tuning in and by episode three she still hasn't really changed to be honest she's still reckless she's deal.
And now she's even more reckless. She's even more hell bent because she wants revenge now because she just watched Joel be massacred right in front of her. And we got that touching moment where she goes to the grave site. Very touching. I mean, there's a lot of things in this.
episode this is a really good episode but at the same time it's like this is where she petitions the townspeople to to go find them in seattle or whatever too and uh she does the whole diplomatic thing and then uh she's gonna do what the hell she wants anyway so but anyways this is this was a good episode this was actually one of my favorites in the series was this one.
It was to me, too. Yep. All right. So episode four, we're going to day one and take that one away. Well, in that one, Dina and Ellie, you know what? They said, you know what? Let's do this. They're going to go out. They're going to, you know.
find Abby you know she's with her on it you know they even find a look as they're traveling you know they're being smart about it luckily for now you know they find a place that her and joel once were at and even finds a guitar so she starts reminiscing which Those parts were beautiful because they weren't reminiscing of like them like training or anything. These were moments of humanity. These were moments of father and daughter moments that, you know, you know, him teaching her how to.
you know play the guitar him singing for her him getting her birthday cake all these little moments that she was reminiscing it was beautiful you get a first-hand look of seeing like how like the war between the Scars and the Wolves that there's really no more discipline between them. It's just about, you know, being rivalry and being boss and all that stuff. Even Jessie at one point tells her, you know, this is not your battle. You got to learn to pick and choose your battles because, I mean...
Do you fight for other people? Do you fight for your own kind of deal? You know, I mean, I took that to heart because honestly, yeah, you know, imagine like if that happened realistically here, I would fight for my own, you know, I would fight for everyone I love. But realistically.
come in the home i'm gonna fight for my own yeah you know so this was a kind of a surreal tough love kind of it got to the heartstrings on this one for me yeah definitely but here's the confusing thing for me was like the fact that they have to travel to seattle which is a long way they're going by themselves dina and ellie in bad weather
to go hunt down Abby, who they have no clue where she's at. They've gotten such a head start on them because we find out it had been days had passed since the murder. And it's like... What are y'all doing? I get the revenge part of it, but common sense has got to kick in somewhere. But that's why. She's still in that mode that Joel tried to teach her for so long, being like...
You got to pick and choose your battles. This is not about you. This is not about revenge. Sometimes you got to realize what you're fighting for. And this is where she had to learn what she's fighting for. Yeah. That's why I think somewhere in the more.
of the story is i mean there is a ending part to this one where like you see dina saying hey i'm pregnant and she's like you know and uh ellie's in shock And you know that obviously Dina was separated from Jesse for about three weeks and maybe that was kind of why. But you see in the heat on the moment that, you know, they start, like, lovemaking with each other and stuff like that. And it was that moment because...
Everything else was gone from that world in that moment. It wasn't about war. It wasn't about Joel. It wasn't about anything. but them too. It was that moment that she realized that the person that she's in love with, that she's going to have a relationship expecting a child. It is no longer about her and Dina. It's about the child now. And this is something that Joel told her when they argued. He said, one day if you have your own, you will know about decisions, how hard they become.
was that not the oddest love-making scene in freaking tv history like what had happened what made you want to just freaking just to have sex right there but that's why because it was it was it's just odd But that's why, because it was that surprising moment that, you know, the person you love...
It's having a child. The person you love is going to give you something. I mean, not necessarily hers, but she's going to take it as hers like the way Joel took her. You know, so it's not meant for people to be like, oh. You know, it's a sex part. It's just a sex scene. No, look into it more than just a sex scene. It caught me off guard. I just thought it was odd. And then we get into episode five, Feel Her Love. What happens in that one?
With that one, she kind of finds where Abby's location is, you know, following the wolf signs and all that stuff. She's having flashbacks of Joel as well again in this one. You know, she remembers when she burned her arm because, you know.
She's trying to cover the bite mark. Because she wants to be normal. She wants to wear short sleeves and... holy you know anyone who has scars want to hide their scars yeah you know so i can relate and see that you know so that was a powerful moment i mean of course you know we also have other moments where like
you know a year later we see that what happened you know we see that you know for her birthday you know she got caught with someone in a room you know she was messing around doing that stuff he yelling at her like a dad but it was more about like what happened between them that she regrets now and anyone who lets life pass because of ego or, you know.
pride you know you start to know what that's like and that's exactly what this was you know she was mad at joe for the longest time for something he lied to but he lied because he had to yeah definitely and then episode six the price is where we get into the flashbacks a lot right yeah i mean there's more flashbacks yes of course i mean we get to know like uh they kind of bump into eugene who's one of the community people
and Gail, his wife, is the psychiatrist that Joel talks to. Psychiatrist's group. Of course, he's bitten, but he wants to be taken home so he can tell his wife, see her one last time and everything. That was another lie that he gave that made Ellie really pissed off because she remembers that look on his face and she knows he lied to her. And that's when she told the truth on him and things just erupted from there.
And, you know, it was that one last chance kind of deal. Yeah. And that was the thing. At least we got to see Joel again. I mean, we'd win a few episodes without being able to see him. And now we got Joel on there. I know. Yeah. It was a weird episode. I get. Why they did it. I get the flashbacks when we get revealed moments. But at the same time, the whole so far has felt so rushed in parts. It did. It felt like, you know, that we got rid of Joel in episode two.
of a seven episode series and we've got a love making scene we've got certain things that's going on but then other things feel so freaking but then we get this slow episode where everything's kind of slowed down and we go to flashback scenes and i'm like shouldn't this have been in like episode two and shouldn't we have had the joel death like around here like to me it felt backwards i felt like we should have had joel longer
Leave more time to invest and then give us flashbacks early on. But I think there was a reason for that. I mean, when you go backwards to season one. It was about Joel being who he was. He was a hunter, a fighter. He knew how to do things that he was supposed to. He knew how to survive and he was the one to do it. In this season, the way time is is exactly like the way it is for us here.
Time passes fast. You don't, you barely blink and it passes so quick. Your children grow up. You don't, you know, you didn't, you barely turned around and all of a sudden they're from five to 12 and yada yada. That's what this was. It wasn't because it was just going so quick. It was because we know Joel from what we know. Him as a fighter, survivor and everything. Training her and doing all the stuff he did to keep his promise of keeping her alive. And then her being...
Like a daughter now, still keeping her alive even more so. So now we see Joel wasn't just Joel. He was more to him. I mean, we remember he lost his daughter in the first season. So now he had a second opportunity and he... prove this second opportunity and because of that time passes so fast there was no time for outsiders to see the father's side just only her
and that's all her memories were because that's all that's the other parts she knew and that no one else did yeah and then episode seven the last episode we get convergence a lot goes on in that episode but go ahead and mention what happened in that one and then i'll i'll get my overall we'll give her overall thoughts about it well in that one i'm with you where it comes to her not listening and i've been you know
Where she's still on a mission and she actually finds Abby's friends. And because she did not listen, she ends up killing them that now she regrets. She's like, wait a minute, that's not what I meant to do. And I'm sorry, I should have stopped.
That's when she kind of starts realizing, you know, those rules are there for a reason because now she can't find Abby. Now she can't do what she's going to do. And there's a huge storm. But now her concern is like, okay, I better go back because, you know, now she has to go back to Dean. because it ain't just about Dina, it's about that baby now. But she don't realize her consequences also bring Abby.
To her instead. And that's where she. In the end. We see her making a better choice. Being like you know what.
Take me, not him. Do this, do that. Because now she's understanding the rules of reason. Like Joel said, you put yourself in the line of fire, you do what you got to do. And I think as much as she's... rebellious and a brat and prideful i think she is slowly is learning what she was supposed to do and how things were supposed to be handled i i really think despite the fact that she aggravates us with her
prior choices she did started changing yeah i agree yeah i don't know i mean overall i mean we got we don't know but uh we see you know one of the characters get shot in the face right yeah and then we had the ending where it kind of did ellie get shot does she die because of that somebody shoots kind of deal uh so we got all that okay uh a lot to unpack in this episode because you know we know that uh jesse's looking at it from a point of view of like
I've got a baby now coming too. So, you know, he's trying to make sure that he's protecting.
himself now and knows that he's got a baby coming even though he knows ellie and dean are quote unquote together still his his child you know i've got something to fight for now and then we got the ellie so overall i mean here's the thing let's wrap it up let's let's just go ahead and wrap all episode seven it's all seven episodes up in a nutshell i felt it was decent but i was a little let down with this season really i was i felt like
I needed a little more or I wanted a little more out of this one. I think the overall.
irritatingness of ellie got on me a little too much and it wore me thin that i was a little frustrated by the end with her and what she continues to do i know like you said she is definitely growing but i don't know i just felt it was a rush season i felt like some things happened that were just weird i don't know is it bad no i think everybody should watch it it's still a really good show but for me if i was to rate this as a whole show it's like a seven
Right now, season two is like a seven. I might bump it to a seven-five for me, but I was a little bit let down on it. What about you? Well, with me, with season one... You got all the action, which made it great. You had all the... But this is the thing. We didn't get any clickers hardly at all in the last three or four episodes. And this is... Where's the clickers? Well, that's why. I mean... I want clickers!
It's all about the humans now. But anyways, this is me being stupid. Like I said, you know, the first season had a lot of action. We knew what those creatures were. We knew what the infected was. We knew what Joel had, who he was and had.
to do and Ellie who she was her purpose and all that but i really like this season i mean i get it it was quick again it's because we are down to almost no time i mean there's hardly not much of humanity left except for groups who are just fighting to survive even if they have pride and ego but
There's not many humanity out there to begin with to make a long story. You know, I mean, we know there's infected. We know there's still some there because, you know, they're being killed off, but they're still all over the place. We know the small...
group of survivors are there but who knows how much longer they will last now it's time to tap into what you have left I mean for me I thought it was perfect you're tapping into you know a little girl who was growing up you know surviving for a life that now she has a chance to you know stop fighting live your life or whatever's left of it you know and do well by it and just grow just that's it just grow up forget everything else you learned enough to know that when the time comes
To fight, fight. But when you don't have to... live and that's how I took this season as and I was happy with it because I didn't need it all the fighting all the time because then it kind of gets tiring because that's all you ever get and I'm like no I got what's left of humanity I got what, you know, mourning death to the closest to new life, to living again or continue living and finding new. And that's what I got from it. And I kind of give it an 8.5 because of it.
That's interesting. Okay. So 8.5. I think overall, I'm hoping we get season three, which I heard we are, but I think it's like two years down the road. A long time. Which I think is freaking ridiculous. Man, if you're going to do it. Baby be born. It makes. no sense i know maybe you're trying to let ellie grow or get older or whatever but dude it irritates me when somebody when a production company does a series like it's like stranger things and you wait
four, five, six seasons before they play another episode. Dude, if it's a series, run the series. Give us year after year series. Why am I going to wait two years to wait for another season? A million things could happen between now and two years. Yeah, I know.
It makes no sense. It drives me crazy. Last of Us, you're blowing it. I don't know. I'll have to watch season one and two again in a year and a half or whatever and crash course it or whatever. But I don't know. I'm not going to say that it was... bad bad it's not i think production value wise all that stuff is there and ellie bless her heart um i just i'm washing my palate of the last of us now and we'll move on
from there and we'll see what happens in a year or two or whatever. If they do season three officially, I'm assuming they are. We'll go from there, Pearl. Okie dokie. All right, Jay and Kyle, I hope you enjoyed that. All you listeners, this is Greg Amortis with the Twisted Temptress. Bye. Signing out. Peace out. Bye.