Bonus: We Probe The Po Po

Jason Lawrence on over one hundred.

We are not alone. The paper are in the house. Jason Lawrence, tell me what you know. That's right. We like to catch up with the police, who do a fine job here in Victoria.

But we like being on the right side of the law, Jace. We love the police.

Seen your Constable Wallohan is joining us this morning. Good morning, good morning everyone, Thanks for having me. Now you are a police negotiator, yes, sick job.

Sick job, and you've turned up like fully decked out.

You're not a proper policeman.

Many many accessories on there talk us through your you get up.

So the kid I'm wearing is my standard negotiating uniform. I didn't bring it in as a gag. It's literally I'm on duty and so I may have to deploy to something. But we've got a lot of kid We've got tasers, we've got radios, we have long arms, we have pistol and standard.

So when you say, like, whatever situation unfolds right now, you could be deployed too.

Yes, at any one stage in Victoria, we have a minimum of two negotiators. I'm it with my two partners for the day. We can get deployed to kidnapping, hostage situation, suicide or crisis intervention and anywhere up to barricades and sieges and even a counter terrorism event.

And so as a negotiator, at what point do you get called in?

We usually get called in by police or law enforcement. We don't get called in by members of the public via triple zero. So the calls we get are when police have tried and they've been unsuccessful, and that's when they call us.

Right, you know it's serious when you're rocking up.

Usually it is, and it can be. But like any job, it doesn't mean you can't have a bit of fun with it. And it doesn't mean it can't be interesting and fascinating.

And it takes on when you say have fun with it, like as in with the person like, hey, come out, we've all left, gotcha, No, we're here, we're just hidden behind trees.

Well, I'll give you an example. I was on the roof of the counting court. Was a man who had a case on and it wasn't going in his favor, and so he decided that he wanted to jump. I was called out and the judge was talking to him. The judge was negotiating. The judge said to me, you're only going to make this worse. And I said, well, with respect, sir, when I walk into your courtroom, you're in charge. Yeah, I am now in charge, and I'm going to ask you to step aside. Please. It's time

What was you going to Jake?

Now this bear in mind, this is not, you know, one from the playbook. No, this is this is a daytime joke. But it's your experience may vary. But he thought it was funny. So I'll go to you.

Okay. So I'm on the roof. I've been there for how long?

About three hours?

Right? Knock knock? Who's there? Dishes? Dishes?

Who dishes?

Sean Connery.

Got him off the root?

It did?

It did? And then what's funny?

Do you think he felt sorry for you?

I think you did give it a ranch.

I mean, how do you train for this? Is it at home with the wife?

Well, my beautiful wife is she always says to me, you can negotiate hostages, you can negotiate kidnappers, but you can't negotiate our two kids.

Well, yeah, that's that was my next question actually, because like, yeah, you've got a couple.

Of kids, yes, and a wife.

I don't know what's harder to negotiate with the time.

Well, the running joke at our place is I sometimes do feel like a police hostage negotiator, like trying to toalkin eight year old out of a car they've locked themselves in the car on the driveway because god forbid, I dropped an eminem and he won't come out unless I go and buy a new pack.

But I have a feeling, Jason, that you may not keep your cool like a police negotiator because you must have to stay so calm. Are there things that just make you blow?

Like yeah, absolutely, Like any sort of policing role. If there's anything involving children and anything involving people that can't protect themselves, that's going to affect you, that you would be You shouldn't be in this job if it doesn't. So you just got to find coping strategies. You've got to find ways to deal with that and you have

But do you ever yell? Surely erasive voice.

I've realized that our bodies are our brains because we do a lot of psychology, and we did with psychologists a lot, and our brains are attuned to certain frequencies. And so I have noticed that yelling at my kids is not a good idea. But if you whisper, If you whisp at your kids, their brain locks onto that frequency and they will.

Actually I've done that, but it's normally at Westfield. We can beg the car and no one's around. I can tell you knew Bladdy.

Listen then let me tell you And does we spring work for husbands as well? Oh yeah, okay, no yelling.

At your back up. If the Sean Connery didn't make him laugh, please get down off the roof. Please, Hey what movie? No no, no, no, no, no, no, no, genuine question, what movie? Or TV show would be the most realistic, realistic representation of what you do.

Stingers, phone Box, water Police.

Like Negotiated was on the other night that movie with Kevin Space, that's right, should have back someone else there.

But there are a few movies that are that are very inaccurate. Inside Man with Jens Washington is it very inaccurate but very entertaining. So we don't swap ourselves for hostages. We don't tape a gun to the back of our head and go into a stronghold like die Hard. That's you're getting there.

With Thomas Police a couple of rules, though, you won't swap yourself for a hostage. Yes, what about revealing personal details about your life?

That's a really good question. So we call that associations. So for example, if you give, so reciprocity is giving and giving in return. So by me giving a little bit of myself to you, we build a connection and realize we're not so different. So that's that's something we're actively encouraged. But you have to have your own line in the sands. So I'm not going to go up to you. I'm not going to tell you know an

Lee.

Here's a question. Say if I barricaded ourselves in the studio, right, and so we're not coming out, and I asked for food to be sent in, is there like like as long as it's nothing dangerous, like, will you send in any request?

Well, it all depends on what your leverage is. So if you're inside a room and we don't need that room for the day, I'd probably be saying no, Ja wouldn't.

Try and wade me out. He's take long to I'd leave by nine if you'd have the room back by nine. Let me tell you hey this morning, our number is thirteen twenty four to ten. If you're up for it, do you mind if we open the phones and let listeners ask questions? Absolutely? Awesome.

There you're going to negotiate with your child, with your wife, Yes, with your boss?

There you go.

Yeah, life to negotiate with Jake, So he just talks over the top of me and doesn't listen.

Get some tips if they go, yeah, I you've got dramas at home and you want to use Lee's tips, give us a ring.

I want you start.

Talkers, Jason Lawrence, tell me what's you know? That's right? John Us this morning seen you. Constable Alia Wallahan. He is a police negotiator and also stars in this week's episode of Police Life The Experts. That's right a podcast done by Victorious Police. That's a great idea. That's awesome. So do you guys showcase different roles in the force in the podcast? Yeah.

It was brought about by wanting to actually say to people there are many more things than just working the divisional van or doing full patrols in uniform. You can do so many things. There's water police, there's forensics, there's detective units, there's tactical units.

And you have a good rig to be on the jet skis for the water police.

I would imagine. So that's why I'm yeah, you know, you.

Want to look good.

All the water police aren't getting around with.

Their top side now on the jet skis.

They should, No, they're not.

Okay, Hey, our number is thirteen twenty four to ten. Lee is happy to answer any questions. This morning. You're a police negotiated We're just having a chat during the song before about how long a siege or a hostage situation can go on for. What's one of the longest you've done.

So we did one in a place called Snake Valley about ten years ago. It went for three four days.

Wow, An are you on the whole time?

I was there?

But not always on duty because you have to sleep, you have to rest, and you have to also wonder when you're being effective. And I work in a team, the most amazing team in Victoria, if.

Not the world. We're a word.

Leading organization on negotiating and we do it full time. So you share the load and you work collaboratively with your colum.

But is that hard? Like I say, if I'm the one with the gun, for example, I built a connection with you and now you're like, how I'm going to go and have a nap. This is Clint. I don't want Clint. I want great chat, a terrible chat.

Well, that comes down to what you want versus what you actually need. And so what you want is different to what you need.

Speaking which do you use the media at all because they could be watching their teley, they could be listening to their radio.

We do, and in the old days you were just to change someone's phone number, you know, and so that they couldn't call out. The average person out has four or five six devices of which they can communicate. So you need to be engaging. You need to be the person that they need, not what they want. Times that person might say I want I want a seven forty seven and I want two hundred thousand dollars and an extra fo they actually.

Do that say I want a million dollars in helicopter.

Absolutely no way, because they're chasing well, some are chasing fame right because they know they're getting the coverage, they're getting the clicks.

But in the end, what it comes down to is you give them what they need and they forget what they want. So for example, my child, I want.

To get a bit of paper.

My child says I want this lolly, or I want this or I want that, And what they actually need is a sense of they're seeing you walking around the supermarket making decisions and picking up things and they just want to do what you're doing, and they need to feel part of that so you let them.

Feel the powering them.

Yes, give them what they need, not what they want.

Okay, So I get them to do the shopping and I stay Hume, That's what I got out of that.

So hang on, I know we need some more specifics, We need more help because I feel like every parents absolutely what you say, Oh darling, why don't you go pick out the cereal?

Yeah?

Absolutely.

You involve them in the process, make them feel like they're actually part of it. And that's what we do it a siege. We involve the person in the process. And so how this day ends is entirely up to you. You are in control, but the way you think the day is going to end is not actually accurate.

But these are options. So calm, isn't he?

I know, Lee, could you come and live in my house for a wenk?

I was just thinking, are you going to use this tactic on Paul? Paul, you can pick whatever you want off the menu of the restaurant I've picked.

No, But see, I do things like that. I give him two options, like an outrageous one that I know he's never going to go for, and then the one that I want.

Oh, I thought you mean bringing in a third. Let's go to Sarah. I'm thirteen, twenty fourteen. Sarah, you are on the line with Lee your chance to probe the paper. What's your question?

Good morning, guys, welcome back, break to your boys, Thank you, thank you.

I've got to do it.

Eighty eighth C. And Rishi is lying, and it's sort of knowing where I mean.

I respite that all the time, so I'm used to now her lying, But it's how do you get them to stop?

How do you spot a line in a hostage negotiation.

I think what you've got to do is you've got to learn how to reward the good and then ignore instead of punish the bad. And so what I recommend, especially with lying, it does, unfortunately start with us. We lie to our kids all the time. We lied about We lie about everything. We all lie, don't we, And so they it is a learned behavior. It's not something that they are born with. They learn it. And so I know this is going to sound like a non answer, but one of the best ways to do is lead

Your shot.

Jason is in trouble. God, you lie about everything.

Don't Isn't he good? Isn't he?

Jase lies about everything. We're a meeting yesterday and he said, I'm sorry, I've got meetings at the kids' school. And I sent him a text saying, you're such a liar, I'll do the meeting.

Well, they wanted to do a zoom meeting.

It's your own fault that the kids are telling little porky pies.

Well leave that segment went well, eye bloody. Am fascinated by your job, and I encourage everyone should check out the Victoria Police news podcast. It's called Police Life the Experts.

I'll be listening to that.

That is crazy. And thank you very much for all the work you guys do. Mate. I know it wouldn't be easy, and I can imagine it would be extremely hard being on a job for a couple of days and then having to go home and just like, how do you do that? Walk through the door and just park the police job at work and be dad at home.

I think the important thing is to cherish what you have, cherish your family, be honest and vulnerable with them, and because, like I said, everyone is fighting a battle that no one knows anything about. So it's good to be vulnerable. Come home, but don't bring those problems home.

Yes, he's good, he's very good.

We thank you very much for coming in.

We'll call you the next time. Jason, I have an issue. You can sort it out.

Thank you. Guys, you wouldn't mind shooting clan with the taser on your way up.

We love the police.