Welcome to the Jack Mountain Bush craft podcast episode 127. Welcome to the Jack Mountain Bush craft podcast. With your host, Jack Mountain Bush craft School founder and Master Main guide, Tim Smith. I'm your host, Tim Smith. I'm a registered master main guide and have been a full time outdoor instructor and guide since founding the Jack Mountain Bush craft school in 19 99.
We help people become more skilled, more knowledgeable, more experienced and more confident in the natural world through our Bush craft and guide training semester programs, and multi week canoe and Snows shoe expeditions. You can check out the show notes to all of our podcasts at blog dot jack mt n dot com. If you're interested in learning more about our college accredited and Gi bill approved programs, visit the Jack mountain Bush class school on the web at jack mt n dot com.
And check out our online network and Digital learning Academy at bush craft school dot com. Hello and welcome back to the Jack Mountain Bush craft Podcast. We were court this on Tuesday, 07/02/2024. It's right after lunch. We're hanging out in my kitchen, and I'm joined by Oz and Jesse from the last several episodes. And we're here to talk about 2 things really self care, taking care of yourself. And planning for 20 25 and some of the implications for that.
So since we last spoke, you and I oz had that wide ranging philosophical discussion, something's things happened. Yeah. Yeah. Because the universe loves feed me my own word. Very harsh to. No. I decided to do the right thing and get up and work out like I'm supposed to. And, of course, I was doing dead lifts and something popped in my back. And that was it. I laid on the floor in there for probably 30 minutes deciding whether it was gonna be 911 or or Tim that I call.
But I ended up getting up and I'm starting to move now, but I'll tell you what, and we'll get into it shortly. But taking care of yourself prior to definitely helps with recovery and covering quickly. So... So we just figured this would be an interesting jumping off point to talk about, because we've been talking about Solo Canoe expedition. And and, obviously, we're always interested in talking about guiding trips and expeditions and what are just the implications
there. Like, I've had my back go out on a snows shoe trip once. Right? I was... We were thankfully only, like, a mile from the from the end of the trip, and it was at the end of the trip, and I had it go out and that was the longest mile I've ever walked. It... I had to crawl some of it.
Took me, like, it took me to walk a mile, the better part, like, probably 3 hours because I'd maybe get, like, 8 steps and then have to stop and take a knee, and then could get up and then it'd be, like, I'll do 7 this time and take a knee and it's just the screaming pain, like, backs and teeth. Right? When they hurt... You can't think of it anything else. And you can't you can't
escape. You there... There's no escape. Enough you can't lay down and fall asleep and I'm just gonna sleep through this pain. You can't lay down. You... There's no comfortable position. There's no nothing. So. It's unbelievably bad. Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine snows shooting. It was awful. Like I'm still in my shy when I think about that trip, like, oh, kinda get the the He. So,
I guess, yeah. We're from the perspective of a guide, you know, your response abilities is number 1, do you have the the skills that are you equipped to help someone who is in that situation. Right? Say someone has a back go out, and we've had it. I think it was the canoe expedition. A couple of years ago. We had that happen twice. Basically 2 Yeah. 2 men broke their bodies in the middle of the North Main woods.
And I'll never forget the the first guy, Good friend of mine, shout out to Colin Clifford. We were loading boats. Colin. Was it the last day? Yeah. It was. It was the last day of the trip we're loading boats and we're above All falls. We were at Taylor landing. And he was lifting a heavy piece of gear and twisting to put it in a boat and I just saw him, like, I just saw his face, and I was like, this isn't good. So he... I don't remember what he did.
He really tweaked it. So whenever that happens on trips, that person unless it's me, gets to ride in the bow of my boat, And I remember just telling them, don't move. Don't try to paddle. Just just sit there and try to make yourself as comfortable as possible. And we had to... We created, like, a make shift crotch form so he could kinda h around all falls. And I think we did that... I think I had to take an extra 2 trips that on that carry, because all of his his boat, his gear and stuff.
So it was probably 5 trips that I was making on that carry, and I still think I finished the fifth 1 before he made it to the end because he was moving so slow. Yeah. He was he was hurt. And that's just a hard thing to watch. Right? You know, like, every breath, even it hurts to breathe, every breath is pain in misery. I think everyone understands though back pain, and it's 1 of those pains
that you... It's easy to give empathy for because we've all kind of experienced it and it's not It's not 1 of those pains that people will will lie about often because you... When it's real, you know you can see it. Yeah. It's real. Can't stand up straight. Right. So it's it's definitely 1 of those pains that you're like, okay. This is acceptable boy. You know, I'll I'll pick up this guy's
stuff. So... Yeah. So in that situation, all we were able to do was to make him as comfortable as possible and get him out of the woods. I don't know what would have happened if we were further remote, you know, let's say if that happened on a more remote trip than the All. I mean, the All is remote, but there's a couple of bridges inter first throughout the trip. And if you know where they are. There's ranger stations and they have radios. And I think that was the year. We had...
That was the first year. We had a set cater on the trip. So there's always that option as well to radio out or to send a text through the satellite stuff. But, yeah. There... It's a hard thing to deal with. And I think maybe that would be a good thing to figure out, you know, for, like, the... Any medical course. Because that's a thing that's not unlikely to happen, you know, someone has a
back. Issue especially a lot of people, middle aged people who tend to go on guided trips a lot of them are showing up with a lot of pre trauma and, you know, being able to manage that. I think would be a good thing. Also, as as the guide. Right? And that's what Jesse was bringing up earlier today was, what if it happens to you, And you're guiding? Yeah. Well, we know and you're for me. Yeah. Exactly. Thanks James the end of the
trip. Yeah. So So so knowing how to... I think number 1, recognize warning signs, you know, for me, I know. I've only had my back, like, really bother me 2 or 3 times in the past over the course of my life. But I know it's much more likely to happen if I get dehydrated If you're being lazy your own camp, just drinking coffee, not hammer in the water, probably much more likely to have it at sword. Sense. And also, I think the idea of maintenance rather than trying to fix it once
it's broken. Yes. So the idea of, like, taking care of your core muscle groups. You know, if you're lifting something heavy, do it do it with proper form, And I I think that's what's helping with my recovery is I usually wake up first thing in the morning, and I do usually stretch for about 30 minutes. Depending on how I feel. So I feel like I get a lot of movement in my spine and
and and in general. So yesterday when I hurt myself, I immediately just started going into those stretches, and I probably stretched altogether for probably 8 hours yes today. And I think that's why when I woke up this morning, I I felt. Easily 50 percent better is just I think my body is used to moving, and it didn't lock up. Right? And also just when you eat a proper diet, you don't
have as much information. Which isn't going to lock in those issues in in your spine or in your muscles because you're not gonna fight inflammation as much that eventually is gonna relax and then everything can kinda be adjusted back into where it needs to go. So I say that, but who knows how probably crawling tomorrow morning, but what we'll see We'll see. Tough to say. Right? You never know. It makes me think how, like, the small injuries that you get when you're learning this stuff can be
really good teachers actually. Like, the the guy that cut his hand, last week he's probably gonna be you know, it's gonna be months before he ever cuts himself again because he's gonna be so much more Yes. Aware and conscious. Yes. Yes. I think that's also for me, it was realizing, oh, I'm 44 years old.
My back just went out. Outright? So being aware of not only your skill level, but, like, how old you are, And maybe how well you can see or how well you could still lift things or just taking into account, I am more real, look at your skill level or your strength or whatever. So... Yeah. I have a saying that these guys get tired of hearing, and can they hear a lot when we're canoe that we're gonna control everything that we can control. There's certain things if we're in the
wilderness, we're on a remote river. There's a there's a lot. That we can't control and 1 of the ways to mitigate all that unknown is to a hundred percent control the things that we can control.
So, you know, part of that with regards to knowing your own body, just knowing how hard you can push And again, recognizing some of the danger signals before before there's an episode, I think would be good, but you know, and in thinking about, like, Solo canoe tripping, man, that would be hard if you were literally on your own on a trip and maybe you pushed a little too hard. Got a little dehydrated, trying to lift the boat up. But, like, you know, lifting a canoe on your shoulders
a big heavy boat. Yeah. That's a significant risk for a back. And that's 1 of the reasons why we spend so much time working on proper form with that skill set in particular because what we see Excuse me. Young young people, young guys, especially when you're young and strong, you think, form doesn't matter. But then if you build those bad habits eventually, that's probably gonna come back and bite you. Yeah. So that's something that we can control that that, you know, that we need
to control. I couldn't imagine. I could not imagine. That feeling of being remote and knowing, oh, no. My bet... Like, setting up your tent. Yeah. I think like, setting up or if it's raining, just putting up a tarp, we're tying a ridge line. I don't know if I would've have been able to accomplish that yesterday. Right? I I mean, I... Obviously, I would have. Right? But there would have been times. I probably am doing so of my teeth. They're crawling on the ground or...
Right? So... Yeah. And the literature is foldable of old stories like that like guys who you know, they found them dead in a wall and they had burned every, like, every stick that they could crawl and get and eventually, they, like, had cash money and they burned some of it and, like, like, there's... Like... Because it's not it's not worth anything
go with that point. Yeah. There's a whole section in true North where he's talking about, like bad things that had happened and then they found the guys who would died on the trail, like... And it's pretty gruesome. It sound... Doesn't sound like a nice way to go. Yeah. But yeah. Just understanding the risks, and we're talking about back pain here, but we could be talking about any
any injury. Like, say if you're you're not paying attention with your ass and you get a gl blow and you slice into the side of your foot or something. Cool. You know, that's another thing, how are you're gonna manage that. So Yeah. Just the... If you're gonna be solo and or you're gonna be remote, like, safety has to be job number to right behind selfie. It's gotta be way upon it. And I think that's 1 of the focuses of the solo course
will really be on. That's why it's not such a focus on the trip as much as it's a focus on the skills, knowing that I actually know these things. Right? Being aware of not only my body, but, like, my skill level before I go out. If I if I am super strong, but I don't know anything about tripping might not go well for me. Right? But if I know a lot about tripping, but I'm not strong and I haven't trained at all that might not go well
for me. Right? So there has to be that balance and you as a mature person have to know what your capabilities are and and you know, how to mitigate those things when they do go wrong. Yeah. A realistic self assessment.
I think we have... We're trained by Hollywood in our culture where people will watch the movie and, you know, like, if it's a bad survival movie the heroes out, and oh, he's almost freezing to death, and he can't get the fire lit and then just 1 last grunt and burst of effort, and he finally gets it done and the day is saved, and that's not how the real world works. No. That's where he's dead.
So But I think because we're so brain by those, like, hero films and, like, superhero movies, And remember out there in podcast podcasts land a superhero was just a hero who's that much better he's super. Sometimes my wife mad at me. I take a blanket. I put it on his shoulders. I ask her if she's super mad at me now. And then you take a blanket that you're living the dog. I was right.
But, yeah. A realistic assessment of your skills, your your physicality, the strength you bring with the table, Those things are just invaluable. Like, you can... I think we can get away with lying to ourselves a lot in the modern world, Like, yeah. I'm pretty good at that. I'm I'm okay at that. But then when you're out in the especially when you're by yourself, and you got nobody you can call, like, better to be honest at that point rather than absolutely face the consequences
in in that same vein of honesty. So after hurting myself yesterday doing the right thing. I realized I should just take up drinking, and then I'll never get hurt and then we'll be good. So then person the car accident news drunk is always the. I mean. I'll be relaxed. Yeah. There you go. Good. Well, I'll I'll... My next trip to town, I'll get 20 pounds of sugar and we'll get great on we go. There we go.
I I feel like I have learned a lot about this, like, using your energy wisely by watching old timers on the trail, like, people in their seventies and eighties, who you meet on some river and just seeing how, you know, they are aware of their limitations. If you're 80 and and you're on a remote. Canoe trip, like, you have to be way more careful. And that... Just... There's so much less ego,
Yeah. So I aspire to Yeah. Trip more, like a, like an 80 year old, I guess, like, less heroic and more you know, when you don't have something to prove. Yeah. You're dead safer. That's a tough 1. That's a tough 1. Because, you know, there's some of us that we we see those ribs or we see that drop when we go. I could probably do that. Totally. I should be alright. Yeah. That's a tough 1. That's tough to rain that in. But even if it's not even specific to tripping, like, you watch an old guy who
swung an axis whole life. Like, just the efficiency of motion emotion, like, no wasted emotions, no wasted energy. You know you've got, like, a hundred x energy units that you can put out that day and do it again tomorrow. So if you're, like, a knuckle head, and you're gonna try to do 501 a hundred your limit. You're gonna pay the price. Mh. So watching those guys do. What work
with any hand tool. We were talking about Dick Pre early today, the guy from the alone and the wilderness books and and movies. And just watching him, you know, do the work with the handles in the video. It's just kinda magical. Was skilled. No wasted motion. And if you've ever heard a Dick P, when I lived in Alaska in the mid 19 nineties, he was alive, and he was
a friend of a friend. He lived right across from where Island lived right across Cook inlet, and I wrote him a letter, and he wrote me back, and I still have hard copy of the letter, I pulled it out and showed a couple of the guys the other day. And if you Google like Dick P letter, think it comes up first. I scanned it, and it's on that jack blog. So if you ever wanna read it and you're not here. Yeah. But, basically, I was writing in... I think I was 24
25 at the time. And I said, you know, I'm really interested in kinda living remotely somewhere. Do you have any advice for a young man and he says, well. Kid the woods aren't going anywhere. Like, don't be in such a rush to run away and live in a remote cab somewhere and good advice. Thank you, sir. I think I maybe took it. But now I'm about the age that he was when he went up there. So maybe I'm looking further a afield now I'd be like, okay. Yeah. Maybe knows my time.
But there's never time for that. So probably won't be doing that. Yeah. You schedule getting through. Schedule gets busier every year. So we're... I'm currently scheduling for 20 25. And had been going back and forth with email someone who wants to jump on the 6 month expedition instructor, training course. So I just redid that whole page today. We should have a whole 20 25 schedule here up and ready to be peru like, all the big courses, all the immersion courses are currently
scheduled. I don't have them on the calendar yet, but those dates are locked in, and then I'm just kinda f with some of the some of the smaller things. But it's funny the last 2 years or so, we've just seen a huge uptick in
interest in the immersion programs, and... I'm not sure what it is or why or if we're on some list somewhere or something, but next year, we're gonna go back to how we did things before the 2 most recent years where instead of a summer semester and a fall semester, we'll have spring semester that starts early when it's cold,
and we'll call that. The hard start because it's a bit more challenging than say starting when it's Well, challenging for different reasons, but it's I think it's probably harder to start when it's hot and buggy, like it has been this course. And then we'll have the move the canoe expedition back to the summertime time, and then we we've got the fall semester is always about the same time frame and has been since 2003 when we kinda started that 1. So. Maybe it was 2002 even. But...
And that's the the big picture. So the the other thing about the the 6 month long program. We had a question recently. We've got it on the web is 6 continuous months out here, and we've set it up that way so that people could minimize their travel time. We're not close to anything. And sometimes people come from overseas to do a program like this and if it saves him from having to buy an extra thousand dollar plane ticket all the better, but it doesn't have to be done
that way. It's a series of phases. So phase 1 of the expedition structure program is to take the 9 week semester course and get your journey insert. Stage 2 is to take the 4 week canoe expedition and get your en level 1 and 2 guiding certifications through us. And then stage 3 is p gum, and that can either be going out and living with a very low baseline or planning and doing a solo trip. But something where you're out on the land actually doing
it living the life. And then stage 4, people come back to the field school and work as a teaching assistant on the Wilderness bush craft semester course and get what we're calling now the level 3...
I'm sorry. The level 2 journey insert, which is where they kind of understand the back end about how the programs are run, and, you know, learn something useful about marketing a program and all the record keeping and everything that goes on so that they could potentially be super useful to somebody running a program or start their own. But that's that's it in a nutshell.
And we... Actually, it's probably better for people to not try to do it all in 6 months because it's a lot, Like, people get overwhelmed reasonably quickly because every day we're it and every day we're working hard and, you know, the takes a toll on the body. I think you and I were talking last podcast oz about, you know, people tend to have get injuries develop injuries, old injuries come back to Haunt them. Maybe the demons they thought they were gonna leave behind somewhere else.
We'll... They'll follow you right up here. I can guarantee you that. Absolutely... Because, I mean, we're on Google Maps. Any even most demons know how to use Google maps. I I will say the 1 thing I did like about spending the entire time here was the seeing the changing seasons. Yeah. And then watching the plants as they change through the season right, and I think that helped a lot with my familiarity. I don't know if just being able to see the season changes, we're we're really nice.
So if you do break it up, maybe try to try to hit each season if you can. Yeah. But just, basically, I was fielding questions on the Internet if that was an option. And, yes, it's definitely an option. The other change that we've made in the last 2 years when we first published that Xi page. It's something we have been doing form for at least 10 or 15 years. But when we first published it, we listed the tuition when you added up all of the component parts
of the course. And I think people thought that they needed to pay all that tuition upfront, and that's actually a bad idea. It makes it more of a hassle for us, especially if somebody has to drop out the for any reason, you know, then there's all that just all the hassle that comes along it. So the way that we register people for that is a course at a time. So if phase 1, if you're starting that starting down that road, phase 1 is just register for the, 1 of the semester courses.
And then you just let us know. It's a small course. We all get really familiar with with each other by about day 2. You just let us know that, hey, that's what I'm interested in doing, and we say great. And encourage you and work with you. But you don't have to sign up and send us, like, a big lump sum payment
for the whole thing. So maybe 2, you know, for example, it there's always the possibility that maybe you were gonna do the semester, and then the canoe 4 week canoe expedition immediately afterwards, but maybe you got hurt, and maybe you can't do that till next year. And then it's just easier for us if we don't have to do refunds and stuff, you know, if somebody needs to drop out. So so there's that.
So we've got those 2 things or that thing, the the 20 25 expedition instructor dates are on the web, and we'll have the rest of the dates for for next year, pretty quick here. I think that's about all we've got. We've got a busy afternoon plan with these guys to go through background studies on fish and mammals and do a navigation review with map and compass. So, yeah. We got about 11 minutes to take down there. So, anyway, thank you for listening.
If you wanna send oz a care package for his back, just get a couple of crisp 50 dollar bills and you can mail them to me the addresses on the website, and I'll I'll make sure he get some. Just laying right on my bat. We'll be clear. Thanks for listening, and hope you have a great day. Take care. Take care. You have been listening to the Jack Mountain Bush craft podcast.
For more information on our professional wilderness guide training programs that college accredited and Gi bill approved, visit us on the web at JACKMTN dot com.