Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this episode, co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson bring their second and final part of their series on the Death Match, one of the most mythologized football games of all time. Occurring in Nazi-occupied Kyiv, Ukraine, this match between Start, a team formed mostly of former Dinamo Kiev players, and Flakelf, a Luftwaffe team, has become a symbol of resistance. The hosts discuss the brutal context of the occupation, the complex l...
Jul 25, 2025•53 min•Season 1Ep. 105
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into the harrowing tale of 'The Death Match,' a match played under Nazi occupation in Ukraine. They explore the brutal conditions faced by Ukrainian footballers, the formation of a remarkable team, and the resonances with modern-day conflicts. In Part One, learn how football resurfaced amidst atrocities, with bakery manager Yosyp Kordyk forming a team from former stars. The discu...
Jul 22, 2025•52 min•Season 1Ep. 104
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast hosted by Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson. Today we bring you the fascinating story of the El Dorado League in 1940s Colombia. Discover how the government, amid a brutal civil war and the assassination of liberal leader Jorge Eliécer Gaitán, turned to football to pacify an unsettled population. Learn about the league's extraordinary formation, iconic players like Alfredo Di Stefano and Adolfo Pedernera, and the league's ultimate collapse...
Jul 18, 2025•58 min•Season 1Ep. 103
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. After Chelsea's Club World Cup win at the weekend, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author Nick Purewal, who discusses his book Sanctioned: The Inside Story of the Sale of Chelsea FC about the sanctioning of Roman Abramovich and the sale of Chelsea FC. Here we give a unique insight into the unprecedented chaos surrounding Chelsea during their 2022 sale, including behind-the-scenes details of Abramovich's involvement in peac...
Jul 15, 2025•56 min•Season 1Ep. 102
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In a week where we marked our 100th episode, we bring you the quiz between our podcast It Was What It Was against Football Cliches. Without co-host Rob Draper, It Was What It Was brought in John Brewin alongside producer Pat Moore to join Jonathan Wilson in an epic battle against Football Cliches' Adam Hurrey, Charlie Eccleshare and David Walker. Three rounds, five questions in each round and a final round of Premier League hunting gro...
Jul 11, 2025•1 hr 44 min•Season 1Ep. 101
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. To mark our 100th episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper revisit one of the game’s true pioneers: Herbert Chapman. Long before his Arsenal legacy, Chapman transformed Huddersfield Town in the 1920s, laying the groundwork for modern football and guiding them to become the first club to win three consecutive top-flight league titles. A century later, Jonathan and Rob delve into the tactical innovations, strategic thinking, and ...
Jul 08, 2025•52 min•Season 1Ep. 100
Welcome back to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. In the second and final episode of our exploration into Abu Dhabi's takeover of Manchester City, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper uncover the strategic, political, and historical forces behind one of the most transformative moves in modern football. Incorporating expert commentary from Dr. Chris Davison, author of Abu Dhabi: Oil and Beyond , this episode explores how a state-led investment in a football club became a powerful tool ...
Jul 04, 2025•48 min•Season 1Ep. 99
Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore the complex history behind the Abu Dhabi takeover of Manchester City. The discussion begins with a chilling recount of a 1984 assassination of UAE ambassador Khalifa Ahmad Mubarak, claimed by the Arab Revolutionary Brigades. This incident serves as a critical backdrop for understanding the motivations and geopolitical factors influencing contemporary Middle Eastern involvemen...
Jul 01, 2025•47 min•Season 1Ep. 98
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, Jonathan and Rob look into the tragic and fascinating latter years of Diego Maradona's professional football career during the 1990s. Jonathan and Rob explore Maradona's struggles with cocaine addiction, legal troubles, and numerous attempts to revive his career amidst a national crisis for Argentina's football team. From his return to his parents' hometown to his controversial time at the 1994 World Cup, follow Maradona's t...
Jun 27, 2025•50 min•Season 1Ep. 97
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper bring a two-part special focussing on the decline of one of the greatest footballers ever, Diego Maradona. In part one, our co-hosts talk about Maradona's struggles with drug addiction, failed drug tests, and his eventual 15-month ban from football after a positive cocaine test in 1991. Despite these challenges, Maradona's impact on both the Napoli and Argentina national teams remained significa...
Jun 24, 2025•49 min•Season 1Ep. 96
Welcome back to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. With the Club World Cup underway, we wrap up the week with Part Two of our Origin Story series, focusing on Manchester United’s chaotic 2000 Club World Cup campaign in Brazil. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper unpack United’s controversial decision to withdraw from the FA Cup, the disorganised nature of the tournament, and the fiery clash between European entitlement and South American intensity. Plus, we'll hear about the now-legen...
Jun 20, 2025•53 min•Season 1Ep. 95
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, with the Club World Cup underway, Rob and Jonathan delve into its chaotic and often violent origins! They explore how the early intercontinental tournaments were organised, from the first attempts in the late 19th century to the ultimate establishment of the Toyota Cup. We'll hear about infamous clashes between Celtic and Racing Club, and Manchester United and Estudiantes. Join us for part two on Friday, where we continue th...
Jun 17, 2025•47 min•Season 1Ep. 94
Please note: Apologies for the audio issues in the first 10 minutes of the show. Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast, with co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson. Today we are joined by special guest David Owen, former sports editor of the Financial Times and author of multiple books on sports history. In this episode, the trio delves deep into the significant alteration of the offside rule on June 13, 1925, and how this monumental change impacted football. From the tact...
Jun 13, 2025•56 min•Season 1Ep. 93
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In today’s episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore one of the most powerful stories in football history: Zambia’s remarkable triumph at the 2012 Africa Cup of Nations. Jonathan, who covered the 2012 tournament on the ground, shares firsthand reflections of what he calls the most emotional press box moment he’s ever experienced. Nineteen years after a devastating plane crash claimed the lives of their national squad, Za...
Jun 10, 2025•54 min•Season 1Ep. 92
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore the remarkable life and career of Luis Enrique, fresh off delivering Paris Saint-Germain’s first-ever Champions League title. From leading Barcelona to a historic treble in 2015 to now rewriting PSG's narrative in Europe, Enrique’s managerial legacy is already carved into footballing folklore. But behind the silverware lies a deeply personal story; one of resilience, heartbreak, and unshaka...
Jun 06, 2025•1 hr 3 min•Season 1Ep. 91
Welcome to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. This week, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore a landmark moment in the sport: Brazil, for the first time in its storied history, has appointed a sole foreign manager, Carlo Ancelotti. As he prepares to lead the Seleção in his first match on Friday against Ecuador, the episode unpacks the significance of his move to Brazil. They examine Ancelotti’s coaching philosophy, tracing its roots to his mentor Nils Liedholm and the ...
Jun 03, 2025•56 min•Season 1Ep. 90
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this episode, Jonathan and Rob explore the history of Paris Saint-Germain ahead of their Champions League final against Inter Milan. Join us as we uncover the intriguing journey of PSG - and their transformation from a club with little history to a European powerhouse. Rob and Jonathan explore the significant matches, the controversial ownership and the club's elusive quest for Champions League glory. For more build-up to the Champi...
May 30, 2025•53 min•Season 1Ep. 89
Welcome to this Champions League special episode of It Was What It Was with hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson. In this episode, they dive deep into the rich tactical history of Inter Milan, tracing the origins and impact of the famous Catenaccio system introduced by legendary coach Helenio Herrera in the 1960s. They explore Herrera's significant influence on modern football management, his controversial methods, and the eventual decline of his tactical system. Additionally, the hosts draw par...
May 27, 2025•1 hr 3 min•Season 1Ep. 88
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper focus on the 1984/85 season that changed English football, with Part One focussing on the numerous fan violence incidents then the tragedy of the Bradford fire as 56 fans lost their lives. Today, in part two, Tony Evans, former sports editor at The Times and author of 'Two Tribes' and 'Far Foreign Land' joins the show to talk about Heysel. In this episode, Tony Evans shares his harrowing ex...
May 23, 2025•1 hr 1 min•Season 1Ep. 87
Welcome to It Was When It Was, the football history podcast. This week we're focussing on the 1984-85 footballing season - arguably the bleakest time in English football history - that changed the game forever. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper begin the first of two episodes covering the violence, tragedy, and upheaval of this period and the wider context of football hooliganism in the first half, whilst the second half of part one pays tribute to the horrific Bradford Fire that claimed 5...
May 20, 2025•1 hr•Season 1Ep. 86
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast! Join co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper as they welcome special guest Richard Hough, author of 'Verona Capone, the Miracle of 85'. In this episode, Richard delves into the extraordinary story of Hellas Verona's incredible 1984-85 Serie A title win. From the chaotic Italian football landscape of the 1980s, managerial masterstrokes, and key foreign signings, to the unforgettable moments and lasting impact on the city of Verona, this...
May 16, 2025•53 min•Season 1Ep. 85
Welcome back to It Was What It Was , the football history podcast. It’s FA Cup final week, with Manchester City set to take on Crystal Palace at Wembley. In this episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper revisit the dramatic story of Palace’s remarkable run to the 1990 FA Cup Final. Just months after a crushing 9-0 defeat to Liverpool, Crystal Palace stunned the same side in a sensational 4-3 semi-final — a match still regarded as one of the greatest in FA Cup history. That victory set up...
May 13, 2025•38 min•Season 1Ep. 84
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In today's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper look back on the rich history of Goodison Park, Everton's storied home ground, as it approaches its final days. From setting the history into the building of the iconic stadium to picking out unforgettable matches to legendary players, relive iconic moments such as Dixie Dean's record-setting 60 goals in one season, Eusebio's praise at the 1966 World Cup, the famous 1994 releg...
May 09, 2025•50 min•Season 1Ep. 83
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper speak of the remarkable journey of Harry Kane, who recently clinched the Bundesliga title with Bayern Munich; the first trophy in his career. Recounting his early days at Arsenal youth, to multiple rejections, and loan spells that nearly derailed his career, the episode highlights Kane’s undeterred determination and resilience. Discover how pivotal moments and key influences, such as Mauric...
May 06, 2025•53 min•Season 1Ep. 82
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week’s episode, we turn our attention to Liverpool’s extraordinary journey through their history, culminating in Arne Slot’s Premier League title-winning side. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper trace the club’s legacy from its early 20th-century triumphs to modern-day glory. They explore the tactical revolutions under legendary managers like Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley, the brilliance of iconic players in Kenny Dalglish ...
May 02, 2025•52 min•Season 1Ep. 81
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Liverpool wrapped up their 20th English league title at the weekend, so today co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper focus on the fascinating career of manager Arne Slot who has won the Premier League at his first attempt at Anfield. Beginning with his unique upbringing in a football-centric Dutch Bible Belt town, we explore how watching his father coach from a young age shaped Slot's tactical mind, travel through his early playing da...
Apr 29, 2025•47 min•Season 1Ep. 80
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. It's time for Part Two of Pep vs Jose! As Barcelona and Inter prepare to face off once again in this year’s Champions League semi-final, we look back at the original - a tie that shaped modern football. Guardiola vs Mourinho. All-out attack vs. tactical defiance. Ideology, rivalry - maybe even good vs. evil? Fifteen years ago, Pep’s all-conquering Barcelona met Jose's Inter Milan in a Champions League semi-final that didn’t just decide...
Apr 25, 2025•51 min•Season 1Ep. 79
Welcome to It Was What It Was. As Barcelona and Inter prepare to face off once again in this year’s Champions League semi-final, we look back at the original - a tie that shaped modern football. Pep Guardiola vs. José Mourinho. All-out attack vs. tactical defiance. Ideology, rivalry - maybe even good vs. evil? Fifteen years ago, Pep’s all-conquering Barcelona met Mourinho’s Inter Milan in a Champions League semi-final that didn’t just decide who reached the final - it helped define a footballing...
Apr 22, 2025•45 min•Season 1Ep. 78
Welcome back to It Was What It Was. It's time for part two of our look at the unexpected role a horse would play in the controversial takeover of Manchester United by the Glazer family. The episode covers the period of the Glazer acquisition, the impact of their ownership, and the financial manoeuvres that transformed the club. From Alex Ferguson's complicated relationship with the Glazers to the missed opportunities and recruitment challenges that followed, this episode gives an in-depth look a...
Apr 18, 2025•58 min•Season 1Ep. 77
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In today's episode, hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by journalist David Walsh to explore how the modern fortunes of Manchester United are intertwined with one of the greatest racehorses in history. This is the extraordinary story of Rock of Gibraltar, the famed racehorse part-owned by Sir Alex Ferguson - and how his connections and relationships with John Magnier, and JP McManus would ultimately impact the Glazers' take...
Apr 15, 2025•57 min•Season 1Ep. 76
