The Special | Episode 2 | Delve Deeper Into.. Privilege

We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of this land that we record this podcast on and pay respects to the elders, past, present and emerging. We must always remember that under the concrete and asphalt that this land is, was, and always will be Aboriginal Land. Hi, I'm Amanda and I'm Rumby. Welcome to It's Lay It the Studio Special Edition.

Yeah, anytime you want to come roll with me. There was one call, not long call, never mind.

Thank you be still singing, So we see on this podcast. Will love to go into layers. It's layer and I don't think there's a more layered topic than privilege in.

All its aspects.

Yeah, and I think the rise of like everything happens with Black Lives Matter and social movements and COVID in itself because there was a lot of privilege attached to a pandemic.

What is privilege to you.

Yo, Well, immediately when you talk about privilege, I think of the what's it called when you have Haley Biber, What would you call white passing No, no, no, no, no's nepotism, I think, but.

It's not my passing white. I think I was all hathy, housy.

No idea anyway, but like nepotism, but like, she has a privilege to be who she is because she grew up in a successful family. Therefore she has access to certain brands and people. So that's a form of privilege. And I would define privilege.

As having an advantage over others, often in a way that you who is privilege is not aware of or is not cognizant of, because it's natural, it comes naturally, or you're born into it, or it seems natural unless you are told otherwise, or make sure you educate yourself otherwise.

Yeah.

I think it's almost like an exposure thing, right, you think, oh, this is my normal, Yes, not realizing your normal steps above someone else's. Yes, and also how their world operates without that, Yeah, definitely, without that, whatever the privilege would

And I think also because the world loves the underdog story hundred percent, the victor over struggled, the you know, overcoming. We love that storyline, it's really hard to buy into like, oh, I was born with privilege and I have even my mouthlage, and I'm going to have my great grandchildren will be privileged for the rest, do you understand. Yeah, it's very uncomfortable, and as people, we don't want to have uncomfortable conversation.

Like if someone everyone's like, oh, you know, even you're in becoming over We had to apply for a visa, yes, and Tom wouldn't have had to yes. And even just that conversation of he's seeing you run around get all the papers together and he's just like, I'm literally just going to rock up at the Emeralds thing and go I'm here in Australia and Dundale.

You're a tourist. Why would you need to?

And I think it's that like uncomfortable nature of it of like you, I see you struggling and I don't have to and I had no say in us being different, yes, because it's like, well what did Tom do to not to have that? What did he himself do to be check? And Australia and Europe have a good relationship. You can just rock up. What did you do to be Zimbabwean and have to apply for a visa and coming to Australia as a bigger ass? Yeah, we did nothing. We

Oh, this is whoa take me back?

Yeah, because you know, obviously you know, we've talked a lot on this podcast about our lack of privilege in a lot of areas, whether it was colonialism, whether it was you know.

Patriarchy, whatever. But the truth is, we are aware that we do have privilege. But do you remember the first time you were aware? It probably has to tie back to our classes. An episode where it's like North versus South. Yes, you know, when you go to a school with other white people in this when you have a friend, if you yourself don't have a simming pool, they have a swimming pool in their backyard. Yeah, you know, it's those

What it was for me. It was when we went to Kumusha.

Yes, oh my god, yes, and we were young and you'd see people running after the car and like you've never seen a car and then you get there and everyone's excited to have you there.

And how our parents would have to take a lot of gifts and things for them and like food and you have.

All these visitors and within the food electricity, right, so your parents wouldn't be buying fresh milk, you would be long life milks like oh my god, it's it's and how.

You look at you, like oh your dress or your shoes or you know, or then where I think our parents talk about an example where my brother asked when he was really young and we go Kumusha is like rural areas village where my dad came from or comes from, and he was like, when are we watching TV?

Like do you get what I'm saying? And they all just look at you like.

Like you know, or like where's the bed when we sleep on the floor? And then they're like, wow, you've nailed it, because that.

Is yeah, and we think it's an experience like.

Oh we need to get excited bathing in a dish, Okay, we can run around.

The foot, yeah, going to try and fetch water? What what all that?

And then that's someone's daily life, your little holiday, which is what like with tourism as well, right, people like go to these countries and set up like schools or whatever. People are like, oh, you're just your tourists shopping for like poverty shopping means it seems like it's that someone's everyday life exactly, But in a way, we were doing that in our own space exactly because for a week it's fun to go no bath in the river, but hey come week two, I yeah, me, I want my shower exactly.

It's crazy, right, whish I never thought of it that way.

And then automatically with that privilege, it's people want to be closer to you because there is that I guess, and we're talking about financial privilege compared to our families, like extended families, So people want to be closer to people who have more access. So people are friendlier to you or nicer to you, or sometimes was the reverse, they meaner to you because they you know, you have that privilege over them, you know.

Like comfort yourself with your bed, yes, you know, like just you know you're fine, we can attack you because you actually take it right, Yeah, with grace.

Yes, you know.

I mean if we even listed different types of privilege and the layers around them, we're gonna go there because that's what we do on this podcast. Even like the first one that comes to mind is obviously white privilege.

Yes, what do you think about that? Yeah?

That's a very very layered topic.

I think.

It's in everything right, because it's quite interesting. I have this conversation with my husband and we talk about I'll ask him sometimes like would you ever want to be black like me, you know, like a black woman like And he's like exactly, He's like no, I think now because he's seen what we go through and he is a way that he's operated with that privilege. And I

I mean even in the workspaces, like we talked about this other day. If I rock up to a meeting just looking jeans and a tea and this is like a corporate meetings like anyone else.

Like, oh yeah, it's casual Friday.

For me, It's like Okay, what's wrong, you know, or the undermine my intelligence because I must look like so I have to always look good. Yes, put on put together, you know, even the days of people laughing, you know, working from home, you can wear sweatsh yeah, you know. And I've mentioned, I think I've mentioned before on the

In the background you not too you know.

So things like that where you have to think about how you are perceived constantly is a privilege? Is an what's the opposite of privilege? It's a handicap that I have compared to yeah, someone.

Yeah, but you can go in what about and this is a good one white passing. Oh not that I'm white passing. So I'm just gonna talk as if. But isn't that handy because you can, like you can go both sides. Yes, you know, you can, you know, can invite it to the cookout, but you also can be people don't even realize. Yes, and you know in Australia,

Like oh yeah.

And that even that us like why does it make a difference? But it does, right, that's why you're acknowledging.

In South Africa and you know in a part day they used to the and I think also in America during slavery they use the pencil.

Yes, or like a brown paper bag.

How if the pencil fell through your hair, got more privilege?

Yeah, it sounds so stupid, like yeah, well brown paper bag comparing you how life you are compared or dark you are compared. Yeah, there is privilege with it because obviously, yeah, you can tow the line. And like I'll have to say, even Jerome now being a biracial child so far, he looks white passing.

Sometimes his hair is coming through the Thank God for the afro. His hair is giving him away.

It's like oh yeah, but like it's sometimes I see him in daycare, when I see my around other kids, it's like, oh okay, I get it. And even when I pick him up, the educators that don't know me will like point me to the black kid and I'm like, oh, no, no, no, I'm.

Here for that one. That one's mine.

You know, they're like, oh, and I think when I'm traveling with him, am I gonna look like the help? Yeah?

Exactly when I'm with this, And then you have to think about also how you look being presentable?

Lord? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about male privilege?

Oh I can go in man's plaining, Oh my god, and I hate men's plainings, brou but yeah, tied to patriarchy, yeah, to you know, just like the respect they get. I think watching the Bobby Movie again again, you know, our last season was very much Bobby era, very influenced by that. And how can leaving the Bobby world went into the real world and saw the amount of privilege that men had so enticed by that, I think that was a

You're such a great ya. Oh wow, you changed that piece.

Whoa.

Yeah, the bar is low, so low, So like I would consider being a male just for that privilege.

Yeah right, you don't have to show up really and.

Also even if you think about on a health perspective, Yeah, they were talking about hormones and like how men wake up with tosterone and it's pretty much on the same keen level and women we go through the I think in one week where it's like things are good, yeah, and the rest of the time we're finding some sort of struggle.

My sister was telling me.

That population what is a luteal phases and all you can go deep into a child in the biology book and you'll see yeah, like and you're like, okay, so we are actually governed by our hormones and men are like.

Oh, you guys are being difficult because they never have that. I have that.

My sister explains, I don't know what it's called, guys, I'm very bad with terminology, but how men go through a certain phases, like a cycle, like maybe.

Our whole cycle luteo whatever. Men like they do it in the space of a day. So that's why they can be consistent.

They can consistently wake up, go to the gym with know like, oh do I feel like it? Or so emotional, but women like it's a different ball game.

And then obviously the world.

Is made easy for men.

It's all, you know, constructed, so men can thrive and we're as women trying to fit into that.

Right, that's sad, so sad.

What about gender, I think having said that about males quite funny because sometimes there is a bit of gender privilege being a female.

Like even if you think about.

Ukraine or Gaza, people are like the women and the children. Yeah, the men have to stay back and find Yes, it's like I've never.

Had a gun before. I'm sure some guys are like I don't want to, I don't want to do it.

Yeah, so there is a bit of obviously we're more protected, I guess, and there's in a patriarchal society, society with damsels in distress, but it has its privileges.

Even like on a day two pays. Yeah, a lot of men or.

Even if my my tire punctures, it's okay if I look helpless it it was a male I wish. I'm sure you're like to even like my husband finds it so hard to ask for help. Yes, even in a store, he will like go come back, and I didn't find it.

I looked and did you ask?

Yeah, asking because it's I can't look helpless.

Yes, yeah, where's women?

It was like I'll find and even I even have purpose is sometimes acted dumb to get what I need because I'm just like it's playing to this guy's ego. Ego, Yes, and they will need to get what we need and move on.

Yeah, so true. So this nice to be a woman. Yeah, you're like carrying stuff. Don't carry that, you're so gentle, just please my nails.

Yeah, exactly exactly, I mean carrying on for that. What about heterosexual privilege, oh.

Thousand percent, Like you don't have to go to the bathroom. You just don't even think twice, like you're like, oh, of course, like I go here and you go there, or like just the way marriage is set up for the longest time. You know a lot of people are not still to this day able to be married or together because of laws and restrictions. I mean we come from a country where it's a legal yeah, which is like wild illegal like proper, Yeah.

And then this appears like you gander where they're mandating that you can just do whatever you want. If you're someone who's not hereterosexual, we can just beat you up. Yeah, And it's like in the world twenty four is still arguing over this, like what does my love life have to do with anybody else?

Yeah, So definitely, I think there's privilege in just being able to just we heard stories.

Of ok, people making cakes for weddings and not realizing it's like a gay couple or something, and then once they do, like you know in the South, like in America, and once they do, they don't want to put like two males on the you know, the topper.

So they refuse. So oh yeah, refuse service. And you're like, why, how is it exact same cake you're making. How's it affecting you're paying you? Yeah, how's it affecting anyway? Which is there's definitely publiged in that space.

Tying on to that, it's sister gender. I think I mentioned it with the with the toilet thing.

Yeah, yeah, or even like how how does it feel to be comfortable knowing you are who you are?

And then someone who doesn't We need.

To allow space for that yeah, like I don't know how it feel to think, Okay, I'm born female, but I don't feel yeah, and then how do I now operate?

And then it all filters a young age, right, like how they define you when you're born, right.

Like you have a baby, healthy baby boy and for the rest of your life and toys you get, toy cars you get and it's just like, really all society is molded in this like male female, and this is who you are and anything in between.

It's like, we don't know what to do with that. Yeah, yeah, kind.

Of, I mean moving off that, and I mean we touched this a bit about this with Zimbabwe, but what about socio economic privilege like money.

I mean money really governs the world. And then we can go in and we've talked about obviously classism in our previous episodes in Zimbabwetha rives all this and it's the level of respect some people get just because you look like you are well to do so you deserve more respect, which is if anyone I was watching Succession on the plane, I've been talking.

I've been I think every day I've.

Been mentioning this, watching Succession, and you're seeing this these hyper privileged people, and I'm like, who, what, Why the hell do they deserve any respect from anybody? Like they have no conscience, They're just so selfish and you know, but the world we live in will give them many many chances to be misogynists and whatnot and what not because of their socio economic standing as compared to someone

You are Yeah, I can buy you, I can.

But do you think opposite thinking, especially like now in terms of inheritance and things like that, Like obviously always thinking about how to improve each generation and generational wealth.

Is a thing. Yeah, you talked about that as well.

Do you think there's a way to operate when you are more well to do financially like without how do you help that?

I think be a human, have a heart, I don't know, humble yourself. Maybe they need to go kumosha as well once in a while.

Yes, you did speak about that, and that probably now I look back on and yeah, those are probably humbling experiences.

You get back home and switching on.

That light like you're like a Charlie, I'm glad I have electricity exactly. And I think even like you can teach people to be good humans, bright like you, because I think assholes are taught or nurtured one So just teach people to have some level of consideration. Tying into pet peeves about not making, you know, raising your child like you don't you can't move around them better than you because X Y Z, And just like respect for people and understand of where people come from doesn't mean

Yeah, I mean really, succession is really bad. That's really got you in your fields to record. What about being able bodied? Oh, privilege of being able bodied?

I am so ashamed to admit that I never thought about this until I had a child. Yeah, because then I had to use a pram. And when you use a PRAM, you obviously use the same services that someone in a wheelchair, for example, would have to use. And now going to the shopping mall is a whole different experience. Yes, I'm like, where's the nearest lift?

Where?

Like, even the way I map the shopping mall is now different, and I find myself thinking why aren't they enough lifts escalators or there's someplings I can't go even the cinema. I've never been to the cinema using an elevator, like at my local cinema.

And they're like it's all the way in the backs some corner.

You knowing, You're like, wow, so true, and isn't funny that able bodied people?

You know, when there's disabled parking sometimes you're like, there's so much disabled parking, man.

Like it's annoying, especially when you can't find parking, which is such an able body thing to be like, oh or parking there, yes, exactly, even worse exactly exactly so.

That and then you know you're.

Just assuming like oh they can make it, make do, but like really they can't. And I think for me, my father in law is you know, seeing how he's grappled, like I think that's also shown me like we really don't.

Like yeah, think about this.

But having said that, do you think he can also be used opposite, like to get ahead, like yeah.

Like fast of Storius, he's actually getting out of jail. Did you see that?

No, yes, parole is like ten years is already it's been ten years girl.

No, yeah, up for parole and you know in South Africa it will be granted like it's not even.

Yeah yeah, that sounds like I can't be racist because you know in this context.

Yeah, but wow, I mean, but I gotta know.

I mean, they're facing so many different things that I think it's okay to sometimes play up that card.

Yeah for sure, because in most.

Spaces you're added, yes, when you're not able bodied. So and I hate the assumption sometimes when you're disabled physically, especially that you are also mentally. Oh yeah, especially in our community, you're not to.

Be seen, you're not the way tucked away. Did you pray enough?

Because if you hadn't prayed, that's why he or she turned out this way. So it's like it's almost like a death sentence. And in a space like zimbabwesh because I don't even know even schools.

Yes, yeah I think there was one.

I think that new or something I know, but the whole of Zimbable goes to this one school.

Yeah, it's wilds so true. I must say. In our family extended family, we have a relative who was wheelchair ridden but was always there the family gather that always like always there, so that's that's pretty dope.

But about religion, the privilege.

And we're seeing the issues just feeling privileged in the Gaza conflict because it's like one person feels their right and I think there's a privilege to being Christian. Yeah, I feel like there is, you know, a privilege to being Jewish, like because obviously being very conscious they went through a lot, like you know, with Holocaust and all this, but there's a handicapped being like Muslim or you know, it's because.

People don't understand your religious like ninety eleven did not help Muslims at all, because now Americans and people who drive that type of media just think, yes, you know, the worst at airport's.

Exactly exactly, so they see the distinction, right, and especially because their religion is quite visible for women to wear burkers and you know, so then it's quite in your face, and I think, if I'm not mistaken, in the Czech Republic, they banned the wearing of burkers in France as.

Well something and I was like, so what now, how yeah, how like how does that affect you?

But just so you don't intimidate.

Or like, you know, and the assumption that Christians have that Muslims, especially when comes to women.

It's tied to oppression.

Yeah, well there's some women who love their religion.

It's not type to pressure the same way Christians are. But it's like yeah, definitely, or if you're atheist, then you don't believe in anything. And now people are like, let's pray, like to.

Whom I got, did I send them a Bible versus yeah.

Like stop and I've noticed I don't know if you have the same thing. We notice a lot with myself. When he comes to Zimbabwe especially, I just tell him put up with He doesn't have a right to say, oh no, I don't want to just sit there like a chat, or I'll step outside out of respect to you.

Because it makes him uncomfortable for sure, and you don't go to church. You know, they don't understand that.

They're just like it's like that I don't eat meat.

Remove the meat guy you have. It's like, I just not how it works.

I remember when I I had my vegan era and I'll be like, oh, I'm vegan what and I don't eat meat? Oh, so make chicken and I'm like, or we'll make eggs.

Well you know then that actually shows that the privilege in itself exactly where you can just operate without any of these tolerances to food and people respect that they'll consider to consider you.

Yeah, for sure.

We really someone needs to do a movie like with just Zimbos and how left field.

Yeah, yeah they can. There's so many WTF moments like being a Zimbable and you're just like yeah, and you have to roll the person. You can't find any one always, you can't fight me up. It's like no, don't just take the meat out, like the meat cooked in.

Like they're like, okay, what about passport privilege?

And I feel like you can talk on this because shifts.

I have seen the ship on my own personal journey, obviously being Zimbabwe when I came to Australia, then becoming an Australian citizen and traveling under both passports is literally day and night. Yeah, I have never thought about anything. When I'm on Australian one. I'm just like sometimes I probably think if someone was going to ask me for a visa, I probably rock up with that one and

Fever and all these things.

But that's the only place everywhere else has been like just in yeah, yeah, you want to come see our country, just walk on the converse, you know. And then Zimbabwe is the utter opposite.

Of like when I was applying for my visa here, and I think I also had a level of privilege a because of where I now live, yeah, and b because of who I'm married to. But like, for instance, his visa that he applied in solidarity with me, he went.

The same as me. He gotta love Tom solidarity.

He went the same route with me for the application, and his visa came out before mine. Child, don't you read the yeah exactly the fact it was quick fus like literally we applied the same same information, same time, sent the same time. His came out maybe two three weeks prior to mine, and for me, it was like I think they were like, girl, just remember which passed.

Has to really, Yes, you show them your whole life, your.

Whole life, where if someone's never had that, you are already step back.

I remember when applying for my cousin to come, and obviously this was when I just given birth and I wanted to support and I remember it was like, okay, now we've never traveled anywhere, and I had to play that my mom's dead card, like you know, I had to be like I need support card, mental health card, you know, like, and I'm sure the person reading this

As you know.

So it's like after all that, if you've never been anywhere, when when you're gonna get the opportunity to go anywhere?

If you can't.

And here's the kicker though, is I know Zimbabweans that are way more traveled than people I've met in the so called first world country, and we love to travel. It's not for lack of I think obviously because of circumstances.

We are just more.

But even for pleasure and leisure, we like to travel or we're curious. And I'm like, we still manage to do it, holding the green bomba make it work, make it work, so willing to be willing to suffer for that?

I mean carrying on from that obviously birthplace then becomes a privilege something you don't even decide, yes, like your parents. Just when I'm bammed somewhere and your mom was like, I'll just give birth here and then that decides the rest of your life. People do those travel passport tourism, Yes,

Lack of the draw where you're born, Like, you don't choose who your family is, even if you dial it down on a micro levelism, you don't choose if you're born north of Samura or.

South of like you weren't like birth me here.

That's just and yeah exactly so definitely a lot of privilege there.

So what about location privilege? I guess what I mean, like that.

Same as like north or south, or like being born in as opposed to a smaller town.

Yeah, also where you live, like now like you're living here in Melbourne, yes, living, I don't know somewhere else, you know, the.

Middle of nowhere.

Yeah. Yeah, regional areas obviously getting less or more expensive stuff because it's taken so much to get it there.

Yes, definitely.

Yeah, it's crazy, so much like every decision actually think about it is like okay, privilege, but how are you gonna live with this go around apologics? Yeah, geographical is the same. I mean, there's no reason why we were born in Southern Africa as opposed to like South Sudan and the civil war you know what this daily exactly.

That's a good point to remember because I remember so many times in my life I was like, why was I born Zimbabwean from this little country with all these issues and this freaking passport and you can go on. But it's also a good reminder that others have it worse and they also didn't even choose.

So yeah, I.

Can't imagine fleeing from my country literally from having to like, I think the most for me modern day seeing that happen was obviously Ukraine. Yes, that was a wake up call for me because I'd never really seen like people fleeing, people fleeing and people talk of it, but I think maybe the documentation obviously of Ukraine was on a much

Imagine, can you imagine?

And I'm like, yo, people are moving back, moving back home. They're like we done with y'all and being like discriminated against. So yeah, what about the ooh the privilege of non immigration?

Oh tell us girl.

Do we even need to go into as someone who's obviously not celebrating Christmas anywhere near my family?

Like you imagine that? Yeah, just dad is down the road.

And it's WoT to me to think you can exist in a world where your siblings, your parents, you live in the same friends, your workmates.

And that's your life everything. It does not exist. My brain cannot cogniate when you.

Travel somewhere it's for traveling for pleasure or business, not because that's your home away from home.

That's wild. Your home is your home.

Imagine like us having grown up in sin gone to the schools you went to, and then stayed there for university, for university work, our family. I feel like I'll be a different person you would be even just hearing that, I'm like, would even recognize myself because.

How would you operate. Yeah, you wouldn't even think.

Because our parents when they grew up, like they were quick for us to return back to Oh yeah, like they were like they went outside for education, Like okay, if that if the scholarships or whatever they were given. A lot of them were on scholarships had been granted within the homeland, they would have just you know, if it wasn't like, oh, come to Oxford or comege whatever, they would have just stayed.

Yeah, And then I still did stay. They graduated and packed up and moved back.

Because I think my parents like graduated university and immediately like moved back, bought a house, got married.

Yeah.

I was just like, and nothing irks me more than when our parents don't understand that it's different for us, Yes, because it's like, no, I don't have to balance always thinking. Oh, like when you wake up there's a thousand calls on your phone and you're like, if I was just home,

Give us that money and making in Australia will check Republic and you're like that's crazy, yeah, yeah, yeah.

What about like transportation, like this is such a you talked about going Musha and yeah, not having access obviously to a car, yes, or like we have the comfort of that, you know, even for example, my grandma who's passed away now, she lived in rural Zimbabwe and she was ill and they had to get a car to transport her from the village to the city when she passed away.

But just that having to mission to get that, or even things like ambulance like in zim Gary I've forgotten his surname of Zimbabwean artists passed. My parents who passed away, he couldn't get to a hospital in time. He could have survived, but because of that lack of access to medical transportation lost his life. That I think that's a clear black and white of like access to how can it can be such a make such a major difference.

On even when we were attual for your hairdresser, she's like, oh, I have to leave here by this time if I don't go, yes, And it's like okay, obviously certain areas have more public transport than other areas and we have to be cognizant of that, like oh wow, okay, yeah, we have to get you home.

Yeah, or at least drop you somewhere yeah yeah, yeah yeah.

Whereas some people would never think that you just jump in your car, but we need to go, or you do have public transport, yeah, Like I remember my like parent now she's always complaining about how Australia's public transports st compared to Europe, where it's like you know, no, you don't actually look at you like a lot of time.

Yeah, in Europe Czech Republic, where they're like, oh you have a car, like it's actually like not a necessity because of that, but like yeah, definitely.

Yeah, So you're is this this thing be deep? This?

I like this one because I think I saw TikTok recently talking about it. Okay, beauty and the privilege, pretty yeah, I saw TikTok about use your pretty privilege?

How do you feel about that? Well, I think I talked about it.

We're talking about males female and I said, sometimes I've had.

To like flatter, flick the hair. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't know.

I guess I've never really had to use it when it's in the monst like it's always with males. I suppose I've never had to really, I don't think it really works with I don't know with other females, women's, women's even women I hate us. Yeah we are we like you think cute, Yeah exactly, but like with men, Yeah.

Sometimes I tap into it.

Man confession, Yeah, story time, you have to because it's like to your disposal, like it's like an arsenal, you know. But having said that, it's annoying when you see someone else is pretty at yeah, or like it ties in or white privilege or blonde bobby girl time.

There's someone who's more privileged in that. But I think also.

Beauty privilege could tie into what we're talking about being presentable. Oh yeah, and how you present yourself, how you look compared to someone else, can create opportunities for you. Obviously, we know you can like pretty privilege. Literally you people have careers off that yeah, of course, but people be like, she must have slept with you. Yes, But like beyond that, I think even just being able to conduct yourself in

Yes, you know.

And then there's like labels as well, even in our dressing. And obviously say this as a stylist, but like the way we dress, people would judge, h she wears those label she must be this person.

Yeah.

Like if I come in you're stepping up in a chinchilla I mean coat or whatever, y'all will be like she's that type.

Of person, you know, Yes, definitely, And it's like it's absolutely a lie. The whole notion of don't judge a book by its cover when it comes to people, I think we want people to judge for who we are.

Yeah yeah, yeah, but I.

On thousand percent think it's not possible, especially a fear for certain you.

Yeah yeah. Why do you think? Though?

What we talked about, it's like, oh, can I trust you? There's an element of like trust and whatever, And I think it's a form of an icebreaker.

Yeah, yeah, it's kind of.

And I say this not to say that you must all be about image and how you do. I say this like, set yourself up for success by being a bit more cognizant of how you present yourself because then you have a little less work to do in terms of breaking certain barriers, which is sad, but it's the reality the world.

Isn't it crazy that that's from a Western view as well? Like I remember when I was a kid, if my mom have addressed in traditional African way, I'd be like, we are not yes anyway, looking like yes.

Then you then get.

Pride in your own as you grow older, as you grow older, like what that's my identity? Like it's okay, yeah for sure, you know for sure. So it's such a weird thing from whose gays.

Is this coming from? Okay? Definitely? What do you think about age?

Well, for example, the music industry, the younger you are, the more successful you'll be. The music industry is willing to put money behind you and say, okay, you're worth funding.

And if you're older, oh no, one's gonna want to buy albums from you.

Im like houseway, Yeah, like maybe I have more life to tell my music.

So yeah, that's such a weird one as well, because that one can work both ways because in zim our parents did have the privilege that they were born in that certain era of you know, the Renaissance of Zim black empowerment, and then like there were loans and all these things they were given.

And then now they're like buy a house. You're like from what with what money?

You know, I have the handicap of being born now after like financial crisis. So or even if you put it in a Western way, like a lot of people will say, like my rent is more than what my parents' mortgage was, and then they'll be like, oh, buy a house, because in the seventies or sixties they could, you know, they could for like much less than what we're buying houses for now.

So it's like it works both ways.

It can be an aging thing, but it'll also be like you're lucky you were born in that era where you did have Like I think a friend of the podcast, Christine, she said to me, were discussing how she was like with the first generation, I think that's not going to be more successful than materialistic wise than our parents. Yeah, because it was always like from the fifties the sixties, everyone's improving, improving, the moving we got.

Then the shitty end of the stick to be.

Yeah, we by friend and our parents peaked and there Now we're not going.

To suggest Yeah, that's true. I was going to say too. In terms of age, I think of my mom at the time she got married. She said she it was not possible for her to get alone from the bank because she was a woman, and like now it's like.

Who you know things like that.

Yeah, or like for example, before women couldn't vote and now we can vote.

So there's also that kind of privilege with age and time. I guess over time things have changed.

So yeah, I mean there's so many types. You can sit here all day.

All day and not at all every but how do we acknowledge our own privilege? So you're you're in this space, someone's pointed out something to you, Oh that's just because you're heterosexual, Well that's because you're whatever. How do you acknowledge and move with that with knowing your knowing your privilege or maybe giving a space for those without that

That, you know.

I think it's also saying it's okay to acknowledge your privilege because you're also disadvantaged in some aspects.

Yeah, yeah, we're not all.

Yes, and it's okay to acknowledge it and maybe try to use your privilege for good to help someone, yeah, have it a little bit better, and to support someone consideration, because I think the world tries to sell us this notion of like for me to succeed and someone needs to suffer. But I'm like, imagine how progressive the world gets if we all uplift each other, Like everyone's life can get a little bit better.

It's okay, it's not going to kill you, and you can acknowledge your privilege.

Yes, it's okay too.

Absolutely, it's what you do after you've acknowledged it. That exactly, because the acknowledgement is obvious. My guy, like a white male, we don't have to be asking you nil you feel it or not?

We know, but like then what And I think it's a stigma.

I guess people feel like because immediately, for example, using the Kardashians, who I love to watch.

My guilty pleasure.

You know, we were kind of happy to watch them when they started off because they were successful but not too successful, right.

Yeah, but now for example, like dealists with people, but now I mean people on them about for example, Kim's Christmas decorations, like the amount of money they spend and all that kind of thing.

So people typically try to tear.

Down people who have really visible privilege. Yeah, you know, even even flying private jets trouble for me exactly. So I think that's why it's so hard to admit your privilege, but then also use your platform like Kim uses it for her legal stuff or whatever. Whether or not people buy into it, that's that's your whatever. I don't even think I buy into it, to be fair, But at least she's trying to do something.

It's better than just being privileged like and actually zooms libs are terrible for this. They'll be like, ooh, I'm so privileged, I have this, how's it down there something?

Yeah, yeah, look at what I have. At least she's even trying to be like, let me get you out of jail.

I mean, yeah, definitely, because then you'd hope, in her scenario, should have a good team behind.

So she's the face of that.

There's people were actually, yeah, properly looking Okay, it's this person worthy of exactly zonerating, whereas in the ZIM situations like okay, who's this helping you?

Showing off your boken.

Yeah no, no, no, but it's so unrelatable ziom syllibs.

Do better, do better.

But yeah, it's such a great topic, I think because we don't think about it's nice talk about we suffer, but it's also good to be like, I also have some benefits, and you know, and I think we are quite open about our privilege in certain aspects. Yeah, yeah, I think when we dropped that CLASSESM episode, yeah, people

Yeah, yeah, all sorts access access, because.

That's why we also like always talk about like even on YouTube, making sure we always have our episodes up on you. Yeah, because we're like, we know it's very easily accessible for U Zimbabwe and not everyone can Spotify hey having a credit card, so you really like, do you even have the app?

Yes? For a while. Wasn't it bailable in South Africa?

Remember for a long time actually, so that's why people just go with Apple Music yes as well.

Yeah exactly. Yeah, we hope you enjoyed this. You know us we can dealt forever.

But yeah, send us your comments, your thoughts are the other privileges we didn't even touch on that. We didn't maybe hear privilege and we can go on.

Yeah girl, it's everywhere. But yeah, thanks so much. Yeah, so good to have you and me.

This has been crazy recording with you right across. It's so used to it being like a screen, definitely.

And now she's heavy, here's pinched me moments.

Thank you for listening and we'll catch you on the next episode. Bye guys. To t