How do you think we do as zimbabwins in building community and supporting each other.
Way that we're like programmed where there is a competitiveness, like there's only room for one person. You have migration trauma. I have migration trauma. It's affecting how we're relating in the household, how we're relating in community workspaces.
All that kind of stuff. But we're not having the conversation.
Even though we can watch like twenty rom coms with twenty different white chicks for us to take that one actress.
You know that we all know that one musician. We all know.
I'm always always be careful.
Love those Hi. I'm Amanda and I'm Rumbi. Welcome to It's Layered Podcasts.
We're a part of the Black Past Network powered by iHeart and today we're recording in studio in Melbourne.
You're at the beautiful Bittersweet studio set up by Pink Lady Picnics. We have such an amazing episode for you guys with someone really excited about a fellow Zimbabie.
Okay, we're gonna give a brief bio and then we're gonna let you guys get to know why we're so excited to have Kudzai here of undone the podcast, Come on kud Zaid no nah. It's a mental health advocate, podcast host and public health professional passionate about fostering meaningful conversations and driving positive change within the African diaspora.
We're all about that, you know that.
Originally from Zimbabwe, becuz I's migration journey to England and later to Australia has deeply informed her perspectives on mental health, migration, trauma OOH, and the importance of culturally sensitive support systems.
Her work highlights the importance of representation, collaboration like what we're doing today in addressing mental health challenges within migrant and refugee communities, whether through her podcast and done the podcast, community initiatives, or public speaking. Because Thi's mission is to build bridges, challenge stigmas, and uplift the voices of those often overlooked.
Welcome to the podcast. Not your bio makes it feel like, you know, around this world, I listening to us like.
Chiud of you because wow, wow, wow, thank you, thank you.
I'm doing the things grinding.
Already for myself, but for real we really.
Because you know, the theme of the season. Season six is really a love letter to women women of color, just because I think sometimes life's so hard, like we're just going hard, hard, hard, and we need to take a setback. And I think through your work, through your podcast, you're really shining a light on some of the things
we go through. And we'd love to learn a little bit more about how you would describe your podcast and how you got into it, Like when were you like, you know what I'm I actually go on pressplate, I.
Do it, Okay, So I describe it as it's like a mental health podcast, I guess, but the conversations are very like the tagline is holistic and intergenerational conversations, so like holistic in the sense that yes, sometimes we will talk about like substance use and like depression therapy all that kind of stuff, but then other times, like there's one podcast episode I was thinking about today, I was like, I want to listen to that again because.
It makes me feel so smart to listen to it, where my friend.
And I talked about how as people of color and like Africans in the diaspora, sometimes engaging with what's social media activism can be really complicated. And such a like difficult field to navigate because it's like every day I'm showing up at work, I'm showing up in all these different spaces. I'm already all that. Yeah, and then now I have to be like an activist on social media too, so people believe I'm about what I'm about, Like this is a lot.
So yeah, I love that episode.
She's so intelligent and so smart and I've just spent the whole episode just listening to her. So like that's another way that we discuss like mental health in like a general like what does it look like day to day?
Not just very clinical.
And then intergenerational because I've been blessed with a community of old people who love talking about this kind of stuff, well versed in this kind of stuff, and I think those conversations are important because there often is a disconnect between I guess the younger generation and the older people. And in like your migration, you have migration trauma, I
have migration trauma. It's affecting how we're relating in the household, how we're relating in community workspaces, all that kind of stuff.
But we're not having the conversations like yeah, or if we are having the conversations. It's like, but yeah, but what's your problem. You grew up here, you have it's so easy. You didn't have to get it there, Like you shouldn't be depressed. It's like, okay, it's not that easy.
Yeah, yeah, So for you it was quite important to documents, right, Yeah, yeah.
I think that's what it was in the new season.
I don't really have official seasons kind of vibes, but I keep talking about how I think the African Australian community is a young diaspora community and we have the privilege of being able to learn from America and the UK and kind of taking what's worked for them hasn't worked for them, but also understanding that we're our own community,
we're our own makeup. People have migrated here under different circumstances to both of those communities, and so we're like in the building stage, yeah, and so getting to be a part of that and I guess documenting what that looks like and how we move forward and people who Another big thing is like spotlighting people who are doing amazing work within the community, where I'm like, look, we have some really dope African Australians, Like did you know
about this most so yeah, yeah, and I love that, you know.
And it's so funny because the other day Rumbia and I went out and it was like I'm a piano afrobeat situation and I was like, she was like, oh my gosh, you known Prague still budding if at all? And I was like, girl, first it was not like this when I say, and then now to see the journey and now it's the norm because you said oversaturated and now we're like, which one do you go to?
I don't feel like it. Yeah, you know, so there is we do get.
To a certain destination, but it is intentional work. And I think like when people were coming over and bring our music and our culture and our and like now we're reeping the benefits.
Right.
So I agree with you that collaboration is important to you, especially like I guess from my lens where I'm coming from Prague, it's like also talking to each other and working with each other and engaging each other. Sometimes I
feel it can be very siloed. And I saw that when you know, the war in Ukraine started and we're trying to help Africans, do you don't get out and Africans was stuck in Ukraine and it was very much like there wasn't really a like we weren't uniting, And so I think it's gonna it takes that kind of collaboration and working together to me, because why do you.
Think it's difficult for us to build community, especially as people of color?
Oh, asking the questions, I think, Oh, what would I say? I think there's a lot of preconceived notions that we have about each other. Tribalism is huge, and then now you're thinking about like even in terms of countries and like how that plays into it.
So I think that definitely plays a part. I also think like we're just trying to survive half the time, Like people are just trying to make money, go to work, look after relatives back home. But that's what they're doing. Like people are trying to survive. So then does the whole as well as hierarchy if needs like you're just trying to take care of your basically before you get to this other stuff like community.
Like what what?
But not realizing that community also is very important and it helps you.
Yeah, For me, when I watched the documentary on the Blue Zones and how and I read Ikey Guy a book around you know, essentially having a whole and fulfilled life. It talks about how integral community is. And you know, we grew up where it was naturally a thing. We had community, right you go Kumusha, you'd see grandparents, you see your cousins. And then as we've dispersed and become
the daspora and gone to different places, it's less of that. Right, But you have to be intentional about building community because what you know, the documentary and the book highlighted was that that is how you live well and longer because these older people in these blue zones have like friends that they can depend on, who support them, who all this thing. And it's like, wow, we should not underestimate that, like it really helps you live a life of longevity.
So so we don't come from like individualistic culture, like that's not that's not what the norm was like even when we lived in UK. I remember my parents would be like, anyway, you're going to your grandmars or school holidays, by you're going to this antipot becausin the school holidays will see.
You when you get back, Like that was the vibe.
And then now you come here and I'm like, oh, I have like one cousin here, like.
How messed do you think we can build community as especially creatives. So we had the privilege of being on undone the podcast Amanda, and I think we both left that recording feeling like, Wow, you are such a great.
Communicator.
You are inquisitive, you are empathetic, and you go there because we talked about things we spoken them up before, but from a different lens, and then other aspects you managed to bring up.
So you're clearly very good at this. This is basically what I'm saying.
You wait out for this episode, but could you tell us, like how you've gone about it or how you think the best way to go about building community as creatives.
Those I think it starts with understanding that you have your audience and you have your people, so don't like I think there's like a poverty mindset, especially in the creative space, where people like, no, we can't collaborate, No we can't do this, No I can't promote that because then like I won't have people or you're gonna And I was like, no, everyone, even if we are doing the same thing, like well, also girls doing podcast about things,
but we have different audiences, we do it in different ways, like there's enough food at the table.
So yeah, I think.
It's starting with not thinking that there's like limited resources and like audience out there. And also I've always been like a fangirl, like that's my thing. I cheerlead everyone like I'm just like so supportive, And I think that makes a huge difference because the people who are usually going to creative fields usually our overthinker.
Is really critical the whole thing.
And so if you're able to see something that someone is doing and they're doing it well and you point that out and you celebrate them, like they're like, oh, like people know that You're really like you see me, you see me like doing what I'm doing, and it's like, oh, now I see you, and then yeah, you kind of find your people.
I think the tokenism thing is real. Like people we probably grew up in communities were it was like, ah, that one is the thinger that one, yeah, and then no one else. Right, And even though we can watch like twenty rom coms with twenty different white chicks, for us, it's like that one actress you know that we all know, that one musician we all know. So I think our
generation has really pushed against that. Yeah, and we want variety and even yes, if you're talking about the exact same topics, but you're going to do them naturally, going to do them in different ways. So even with us like you reaching out, us reaching out to you, it's been such a beautiful thing for us as well, because it's like, you know, we really do have a community,
and we need to. Even coming into Bittersweed Studio, the amount of other people guests we had, we were like, oh my gosh, think of Bittersweet studios when I think of studios. So it's like that, right, you're throwing your name in the ring. And also you don't know where we wish rooms. We will enter which rooms you will, And so for a community, we can always be like, oh that job is not really for me, but I
know someone else. You know, that's how the white folks do literally thousand like why can't we just do this people baby thing?
It's not you guys know, people stay helping each other, like I might not be the best person, but I know we posted you have something someone lady, Yeah, but I think, yeah, it's just like a weird things like no, and then we get so stingy, like it's like, no, I'll do it even if you can't do it to the best of your ability, if you know you can do it, but it's someone who can do it better, just letting.
You. That's what I was saying.
That's what I always I want to just latch onto that and say, how do you think we do as Zimbabweins in building community and supporting each other.
You've got the mic. You're so rude for that.
That's just like, I don't know what you want to take.
Please, so sticky one. I'm like, how do I keep it politically correct?
In my experience, that's a great place to start in my experience former time. In my experience, I don't know if it's like a societal cultural like way that we're like programmed where there is a competitiveness like there's only room for one person at the table, like there's only room for and I think we haven't always been good at collaboration to take it there and make it deeper, because you know, my.
That's what's up.
We have to consider like the I guess the societal and economic landscape that our parents were growing up in and how I guess there was usually only room for one black person in that room or whatever, and so that's just became something that became ingrained and then they've in not.
Looking back and being like does this still serve me?
We have this whole running analogy about like toolboxes, and it's like sometimes you also have to look in your toolbox and be like, Okay, this tool was necessary for this season.
Is it going to serve me in this season?
Like?
Do I need to get rid of it? Do I need to upgrade it? What do I need to do?
And so that's one of those things that we haven't examined to be like, Okay, there's a point in time that whereas like that's just how you had to survive and dive. But now that we're not in that environment, do I still need to be the only black person at a table in a conversation? Can I help someone else? Can I inact someone into this? So that's what I'd.
Say, And I say that I don't want to just throw you into the to the lions Den, but I say that in the work you're doing and the way you're moving in this world, you are showing that actually, guys, we can collaborate, we can work together.
And actually it works a lot better when you do.
Like you know, so put us to you. I was bringing it back. I was just going to launch you after I was leaving. Not at all, Not at all.
How supportive were your family and friends when you started your podcast or with any of your creative endeavors.
How supportive of they being?
Remember you had to ask how I started the podcast and twenty twenty it was a COVID.
And then it died.
It started twenty twenty, stayed in twenty twenty, and then my friends and family were like, when are you bringing the podcast back?
When is it coming back? I was like, guys, it's not that simple. It's not that easy.
It's a lot of word and I think I was unsure if my've I had become unsure of my voice in the process, and so it relaunched at the end of twenty twenty three. Actually, and I think I just knew a lot more about the direction I wanted to take it and in my voice. And so to answer your question, my friends and family were so supportive. My mom watches every like, now that we're on YouTube, she'll put it on the TV. My sister, my mom watched
the podcast when I first started it. They were always the first ones to listen, or I'd let them listen before I had launched it, because I guess at the time the conversations that I was having in like the initial episodes, I was like, I want to make sure that you guys don't feel any type of way about it, because they were so raw and vulnerable. I didn't want people to approach them in the community and be like,
do you know your daughter's talking about this. I wanted them to be able to stand tento's on the decision I had made and be like, no, we support her, we back her.
Well, no, we don't agree, but that's fine, that's what she's doing.
So they'd listen. They loved everything. It's not like I was having conversations we hadn't had. I always say my love for it started from the conversations we had at the dinner table because they're both mental health nurses, so yeah, they've all They are so supportive.
My friends are so supportive.
My last the event we did was such a success because my friends came and they ran with it, like I got to my own event forty five minutes before it started. Like they said, uh, they hosted everyone. So I've been so blessed with the great.
Community and I know how un natural. It's so lucky my parents. It was just launched.
Yeah, tell us more about those debate. Nice, you just spoke about hosting events. Tell us more about where did that come from? Sony wanted to do an event. I was like, what am I going to do? What do I feel like encompasses the brand? Well, the podcast is called undone. I'm like, more than a debate, Like it just makes sense.
You get there, you hear people arguing, you leave with a different perspective like this makes sense.
I'm like, well, what are we going to talk about?
And specifically in community, I felt like our interaction with the justice system and the narrative, like when they talk about African gangs and stuff, a lot of that stuff is coming out of Victoria. Yeah, but that's broadcasted nationally when all the different things that they're talking about, and so I was like, I feel like that's an important conversation to have. The conversation ended up being a whole bunch of it became everything.
Everyone was like.
Anyway, now that we're here, and I was like, Okay, I see how they all connect into this affair.
So yeah, that's what that was.
The second one is coming up, or it might have come out to any with this year comes out, but it'll be a continuation of that convass of that the initial debate in the conversation that was had there, but
less problems focus, the more solutions focused. So like okay, and the first debate it was raised about like economic like progress where we're at as a community in Australia where people are sitting what the disconnects between those who are like making it economically and how they then stop trying to help and work collaboratively with everyone else who might still be in like the house, like public housing, all that kind of stuff, like how do we make
it better for everyone? It's like, okay, cool, that was brought up. What do we say is the way forward? Who is responsible for this? Are we saying that onness is on the government? Are we saying it's a community? Yes, it's gonna be very much more.
Solutions, but wow, do you even start planning a debate?
How do you how natural?
I'm not sure, br because I mean, we we performed Live and Beyond the Valley, and as much as it was such a good experience and we love and we might even want to do more.
There was a bit of like, oh my gosh, this is.
So different, so different, and yeah, plan and to plan for something you can't plan, you know what I mean truly because they can't stop butting it like, let's rewind, let's cut that out.
There's an audience. Yeah, let's cut that out. That's not what you put on the internet. People know. Yeah on the day.
Yeah, but where did I start? I didn't know where I started. I did it without money, either because I thought I was going to get a grant or something gonna like I was going to play.
No.
I was like, okay, cool, so I still want to do this. How are we going to do it? I just did it.
I started with the venue we use, a bittersweet studious, and yeah, everything else kind of fell into place. I think I knew the kind of conversation I wanted, so I was curating everything around that. Same with this time around, We've gone for a bigger venue, which I think is I feel so crazy. I'm like, I think I'm we're
aiming for a hundred Wow, that's a small wedding. Am I doing planning a small wedding, but yeah, I know the kind of conversation I want to have, So everything gets curated around that, like what kind of space allows us to have that conversation where it doesn't feel like you're watching Q and A on TV. So Bittersweet was like everyone said, it felt intimate, it felt like you were engaged, you could be. So I was like, okay,
I want to keep that same feeling. And then even with panelists like I knew people, but I was like, again, I know how I want the conversation to feel. I can't predict what the conversation is going to be, but I know how I wanted to feel. So I was like thinking, Okay, what personalities do I.
Think went well together?
And then honestly the rest I loved it and'ttinue my guys, And see, I.
Have to give you kudos.
I think a lot of people think podcasting, debating life for whatever it is, is easy. They see't think, oh yeah, I can know that you know and you know. But I think kudos to you even the way you answered and you said I just I just did it. But it's not There is lots of blood, sweat and tea and fellow creatives can certainly understand and appreciate, and when we bring those content to you and for you, please know that it's come from a place for yeah, sleepless
nights and yeah, thinking and reading. So kudos for pushing past you know. Can't wait for the second one.
Yeah, I wanted to ask you because we're talking about building community, yes, And I think we touched on it a little bit when we had our Zoom call prior to you know, when we're planning all this.
Building community in the sense.
Of creating friendships in adulthood, and I think we just like.
Lightly, I would love for you because you just.
Have such an infectious energy about you and you just have like a radiating light and positivity honestly, and even as you spoke about you know, you had these conversations with your parents at the dinner table before you which ended up in being the root for your podcast, I was like, wow, Like that takes a certain type of
family upbringing which we didn't always have. And then like seeing you, like how do you move and create friendships and connections at this age because that's something that people often talk about how hard it is, you know, to do that at this age, especially when you're moving around exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
So I grew up in like regional Queensland, Okay, growing up, we left UK. I came here when I started high school. So I grew up in a regional Queensland. The African community was small, it was tight knit. So I went from like my family community to another community that it was really opening, was really open and welcoming, and that community is still to this day so supportive, so loving.
Like we all kind of say we grew up.
Together, like all the kids like you, We all just know each other. So I think there's always been that theme of knowing the importance of community and what community can do and how community can show up for you, the my parents' friends, and then I guess our family,
because we're all somehow involved with mental health. However, we're all on this journey of healing, and so I think I've learned that yes, we can get wounded in communities, but we also get healed in community and when the community is healing as well, bars which I think is part of why the podcast was started. So I'm like, Okay, I know the important of community, and I like this is something that is a core value for me. Like, I want to be a part of community. Who am
I letting into my community? Who am I letting be a part of my world? So I had friends, I had a core group of friends. I still have friends. Sorry still the same person said no, if we didn't cut them off, I still have the friends.
But then I moved to Melbourne. I literally remember praying.
I was like, God, give me the heart to want to make new friends because I'm good like long distance. I need to focus on how to be a long distance sister daughter this friend, Like, I don't want to be making new friends, but I also know I need on the ground community, So like, how do I go
about that? And then I came here and I think it was just it's not always easy, But I think it was easy because I knew like a couple people, and I was just going to spaces that I enjoyed, Like I enjoyed poetry, I enjoyed community events, I enjoyed music stuff.
I would go there.
After a while, you kind of end up seeing the same people and of the vibe vibe with him.
Yeah, although the ones who were closest to me.
Yes, I think you guys are going to interviewed her later, I remember we met at an event and she was like, I've seen you before.
I was like, no, I'm literally two months into living in Melbourne. You have not seen me. And then we hung out that night. We're like at an art being exhibition. And then at the end of the night she was like, we're going to be friends, and I was like, I don't except your much not to say the same thing. And we've been friends ever since. So I don't know.
I kind of feel like if vibe attracted your tribe, but I also feel like, I guess that might be like a cop out, but.
No, it's true.
And I think if you're open, I think if you're like there's no one here, I'll never you never.
Yeah.
And and interest based too, you know you have that is your foundation takes notes.
Thank you very much.
So as we wrap this beautiful time up with you, any I mean, you've already talked about this debate coming up, but upcoming projects for twenty twenty five that you want to share, share about your podcast where people can find it all the good pleased you know, all the good stuff.
Let us know. Okay, Yeah, there is the debate that's coming up.
Every twenty seconds, I have a couple other stuff in the works, but nothing is like set it deep.
Yeah, I don't even those people that moves in silence.
If you put money in my account, I can tell you because now the dream can become a reality fact I should be sharing. Yeah, I'm like, I'm dreaming, but I can't share anything because I don't have the money in my count I will let you know.
What we're working on like that.
But what about the first debate If people want to like wrap their heads around that before the second debate, where could they? Yes, so we are on Spotify and Apple podcasts, and I think yeah because YouTube and Google became the same thing as Undone the podcast on Instagram, as undone the podcast.
On our YouTube.
We have like a seven minute trailer of like some of the what I thought were like highlights from the last debate of things that were said. And then we also have like for audio like start to finish. We didn't cut anything out, nothing else, so like we had audience participation.
We had and it got heated at some point like ran it raw.
So yeah, well, thank you so so much for coming over and spending time with us. Thank you for the love and like you know, We thoroughly enjoyed being on your podcast, so please listen out. If it's not out already, listen look out for it because we had we had a time. Okay, we had a time. And that is it for another episode.
Of It's later.
Yeah, thanks for coming you, like really, it's like your energy, your vibe. It is very infectious and I think just keep doing what you're doing. The bank account will will fill out.
Equivalent. Okay, yeah, been more equivalent.
Yeah, thank you so much.
Don't catch you soon. Good Bye,