I'm always always.
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Love those umboo let We'll use your head.
They will tear you up. Lack a purple talk. Oh no no, yeah.
Yeah yeah yeah, oh no no no.
Hi. I'm Amanda and I'm Rumby.
Welcome to Its lay It.
We're in a long distance friendship that started over twenty years ago when we were in high school.
We'll be talking about all things life, love, family, anything and everything else under the sun.
Delve deeper with us because in life, you know my layers.
Oh no no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah no.
No, no, Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of It's Layered Podcast.
I like Joe sound effects.
Funny enough. I was watching Black af Over again and there's this I think it's an episode one or episode two, and he's with his wife and then they're like, hey, you come against us, basically attack you shouts five, and.
I was like, I love that.
I really think I got that prop up from from that show or just.
I really love it got it from like Jamaican or of course of course sooner his picture like that's how we would be if I ever go to Jamaica.
They probably look at you like you if someone came with a gun.
I'll be cool about it. Like I will not be cool about it. I'll shoots. But exactly right now.
It's all fun and games in the club un till happens for real anyway. So exactly, I just faint. That's like, please leave me. I don't know. I'm from here.
Play I will play.
I mean, I've watched movies. I'm like, why aren't you on the floor like you did? Okay, just get some blood from somebody. That's also true. That's also true.
But I don't know what happenedratuated dealing with.
Or just zigzag grund. They say, just that's that's, that's.
It, but all they think got the window.
I'm sure, why are we even I don't even know that's a serious issue from anyway anyway.
Okay, but yes, welcome, so excited to have you here for another brand new episode of It's Layered. What are we gonna delve deeper into today? Amanda?
Oh, this one's I think we've been challenged with this one, especially coming from Africans and Barbwean parents. Boundaries rewriting our stories and setting them boundaries. Yeah, but African parents to be like bounder, what what's yours is mine, But we're just gonna really delve deeper onto this. I mean not only from our parents' point of view, but friendships, love work, all them things. I mean, what are boundaries to you? Do you have examples of what a boundary would be to you?
So quite interestingly enough, I was listening to something or watching a documentary. I think I was listening to a podcast and it was talking about we often talk about boundaries where it's limiting. So typically when people hear boundaries, it's limiting people's access to your space, saying that they
only welcome so far. So for example, it's like not physical necessarily, I mean you can say who can come to your house or of course, but also things like who gets to be in on your coming and going. And another way is on social media, like you can give restricted access, you know, the close friends option on Instagram stories, where you can have certain close friends, meaning you're excluding everyone else who you don't consider close friends from and seeing certain parts of your life or blocking
certain people. Or for example, when someone asks too much about you, like oh what are you doing here? Or tell me about this that, and you're like, hmmm, I'd rather not because you feel that's too personal for them to pass over. Sometimes with workmates, I think too especially. But then I was listening to that it was a podcast and they were saying, we so often talk about like the restriction of like you're not allowed in, but we don't talk about boundaries of allowing people into certain spaces.
I think they were saying, boundaries can be saying you are welcome into this space, but also you're not not welcome into that space. We often see it as like a hold up, back up, but then you have different levels of intimacy with people around you. So some people are you allow them within a space, and that's it's a boundary of sorts, but only a few people get to be within that space. That's a form of creating boundaries, but in like a positive way or like not a
backup way. What do you use to define boundaries as.
Oh, I'm completely in agreeance with you.
Like I think also with like our generation, right, we saw life before social media, the rise of social media, and then life like what it is now, And I think that's like a good snapshot of boundaries.
But I do remember when like Facebook started, you'd be.
Like, oh, you're my friend, and I make you this way and that way, and your status was like I'm friends with everybody you know, I know from primary school.
Let's be friends.
I'll never talk to you again, but let's be friends, like you know what I mean. Like we were so open with it, and then it probably saw like the dangers of that or the ramifications of that, and people are over corrected, like you don't even see them on the socials at all, and some people are still navigating those like Murky, who do I Latin? As you said about Instagram and close friends and blocking people and.
Restricted restrict access all those things.
I feel like that's what boundaries is to me, Like not letting any everyone into your life, into your your in a I guess in a circle.
Would be like the word right or the words.
But it's also can be like as you said, at work spaces of my work colleague, like I'm gonna kicky with you on the water cooler, but Saturday and Sunday, I don't know who, like don't greet me outside of work, like you know those kind of like we're homies under this building, but we're not, like yeah, and like so the I guess boundaries show themselves up in so many different ways.
Yeah, So would you say that was your first encounter with boundaries when you started like restricting who was your friend on Facebook and social media, or like before when you were younger, or any other time.
I think for me probably never.
I never probably labeled it when I was younger, like you just didn't realize that that's what you were doing, but you were setting boundaries, like I definitely remember, like my mom obviously was anwell before she passed away, So it was like one of those things where it's like you can't be dolving with everybody who's asking, like all the antis at church would be like my mom had in it, and you're like I can't be like going into all the details with you, and she's not, you
know what I mean, like just quick fast looking at yeah, because you just cannot sit there and give everyone like a full access, restricted and restrict access into what's really going on. So then I think that was probably me practicing boundaries and being the doing the whole polite thing like I'm telling you, but I'm.
Still you're still not in the no no, you know.
So, like I guess at that point I was navigating that without even realizing and I feel like that's that muscle has just strengthened as I've gone older, because I started so young, Like even when social media did start, I wasn't a friends with everybody. I was like, who are you? Like, I'll just leave you. You don't need those friends requests. Just stay there. I've still got a holeless you get running there forever.
So you're in pregatory, was having and I think, but.
You've definitely always been good at that. I think even when we were at school finding out, like when your mom did pass away, for a lot of us it was like, oh wow, like you were going through all this. So I think you really, as you said, you really preserved that for you and like your close family. And it's totally understandable because imagine dealing.
What were you going to people's opinion team? Yeah, exactly. Like everyone feels the need to say something when silence is golden, but then it's like a Zimbabweans, we don't know what that means. We have to say something because it's not all.
Here then move on.
And then also that seems a bit rude, right You're like, Okay, I also don't want to shoulder everyone's feelings. So it's almost like just to say it's all okay, just so that you're not having to like bear on advice and everyone's do this, do that, like brah, we got like what am I going to do?
And I remember also like as being young as we were, we didn't know how to handle our emotions. I remember us crying over certain things, a scripture union. Yeah, we're just emotional about a lot, Like was just.
His emotions. I was like, I don't think it's not bad.
You didn't need that because I just remember just like be everything was so deep.
Yeah, and then you grew up in your deep relaxed people also seek to relate to you, right, so when you let's them into it in a space and then they're like, oh no, I know all about this, sometimes it can like actually nullify what you're going through because it's like no, you don't actually, but now because you're trying to seem like so it's like better to just be like, okay, let's just stop here, like I don't
need you to come in any further. But yeah, when did you first realize you could have boundaries?
I think I've.
Always had like an element of boundary. Yes, if there's such a word. Inherently, I especially as a child, I was very much an introvert, so boundary what you didn't have to tell me like I was good, you know, I don't need people. I'm good. I was happy with my books and just really close friends, Like I would have like one or two close friends, and those are the people that would hang out with, chill with, and my diaries those were that's where I let it all out.
That's di I have a little rock on your diary.
Never got a locked diary. I don't think I got a lockdiry, but I used to. I'm sure my mom read a lot of my diaries because I hide them insight into you. Yeah is going through yeah exactly. But I think I've always had an element of that. But I think the moment I really realized that I guess I had boundaries, so to speak, was after when I started working and I used to go to church and people would be like, roomby, you need to smile more, you need to be more open, you need to be
more and I just remember being like huh. Then they're like, yeah, you know, we see you around the way. You look very unapproachable and very much don't mess with me, and I'm like, uh, yeah, because I don't want any Tom, Dick, Harry or Jim just stepping up to me and talking nonsense. I'm sorry, like I'm friendly enough, I'm real cute, I'll be like hy like you know, blessings, you know, keep it. And I just remember being so confused why people felt
a need to have me be friendly and open. And I used to ask, like, what the hell does being open me? Does that make sense? Like I, yeah, yeah, I couldn't grasp it. But for me, I was like, if you're not going to be close to me and I don't want you close to me, why we got to pretend I can do like fictitious, hey, hey, conver, but like, let's keep it moving. So maybe that's the first time that it was really brought up to me that hey girl, you're very you know, not so friendly or whatever. Yeah.
Yeah.
Why do you think influenced that though, or what do you think influencers boundaries in general?
I think feeling cool for me, I think a lot of it had to do with feeling unheard or misunderstood, and I always felt very misunderstood and kind of strange in my own world, per se I had a very vivid imagination, and I just enjoyed my own company and obviously my upbringing things I've gone through, I loosed up, I think in a way. So you just I was just like I don't need people, you know, self preservation type.
Of scenarios like hyper independence on lote unlock.
But I've been that way since I was a little kid. I remember my parents telling me we'd go went from my uncle's wedding and I wouldn't let anyone carry me. I was like two or something. I was only by my mom or then get home. I was like to my sister, I was like, Sonny, let's do the dance moves from my steps, from them, from chatter from the wedding. But that's just who I was.
I was like, yeah, so you're like absorbing but not really participating.
Yeah yeah, yeah, thousand percent.
So I think those were the influences and just feeling like people always had something to say about me, even without me engaging or you know, so I'm like.
Oh, no, Zimbabwans would just step up and tell you, yes.
Oh you gained weight. Are you're skinny now? Are You're Like there's.
Exactly So I was just like I don't need all that, Like, what's the point you know myself and you, I mean I think your mom's illness, Like.
Yeah, no, definitely, but I think also it's also for me. It was almost the opposite of view where I got burnt. So I learned not to, you know what I mean. I was like, I let people in, thinking, ah, you know, we all care together. They care, They actually care. It's not gossiping. It's not you know. I think we've talked about this before in previous episodes as well, with the rise of AIDS and HIV in Zoom.
Obviously, when anyone.
Was sick, people would always assume that's that's what I used to say. People, God, I'm like pneumonia.
Yeah, everybody got pneumonia, you know.
So I think, like, yeah, it was like letting people in and then realizing not to, and then realizing people gossip, realizing people make up stories and fill in the blanks themselves, and then then you just start to think, Okay, well, actually, if I don't need your advice, I don't need your help, especially like in ZIM, I guess it ends up being financial or familiar support. Then why do you need to
be in the inner circle. And I'm sure I really really remember my dad even probably saying something like that, like probably instilling that in us as kids, like this is under a roof.
Nobody needs to be knowing. No one needs to be knowing.
You know, people say what they're gonna say, but we know what's happening. We know my mom's sick, we know why this is happening. Like and I guess that just makes you realize, oh, so people can't be trusted.
I can't be an open book with her bad yep.
Like and I think when you're a kid, you lose that innocence where it's like, oh I just innocently told you this, and then now you're only using it as ammunition. Then you just start to realize, okain, parents, I won't probably say parents, adults also use kids to weaponize. You know, they get the information from kids. You know, they're like it's like, as your creetic guy, you're not happening, You're likely like people you're telling I.
That's what Amanda was.
Saying, the things like yeah, you just start to realize, oh, okay, this is, this is why this is And not to say you lie, but just you just find ways to avoid the convo, like kind of short like yeah, we're good.
Yeah, absolutely absolutely So would you say that boundaries are closely tied with expectations.
Suppose in a way people expect if your family, that you're close, if your family, that you can be put like you can be in the inner circle. I should be knowing you know, I should be I should have access to you. And this obviously goes and even with I suppose with family more so than anything else, or even with friendships. Some people think I've known you forever? Why now am I not part of this? You know, especially like weddings. I'm sure you probably would have solved this.
As you're getting closer and closer to your wedding, people start to grow up like I being your.
Bestie, invitation, I'm coming, and I.
Was just like expectation right that people are like and now you have sent that boundary of Ah, Actually, even though I've known you forever, we haven't really been. You don't even know who Tom is. You don't even know the story of how we met. So unfortunately you can't come to my wedding. Unfortunately you can't participate in that. So I guess it's like it's for those people who think they ought to be in those spaces and really they're not.
Yeah, I think that's so true, and I think it's boundaries are necessary to manage expectations. So essentially, I think with boundaries, you're saying, this is what I expect from you, or I'm willing to do, or this is how far you can come into my life and space, because if you don't say it, someone will, as you said, expect to be at this wedding, this party, this event in your social I mean, I can tell you the countless
times that people have had expectations. I'm like, where did you come up with this?
Like no, where is this narrative coming from?
No? No, no, no no no. So I think you try to set boundaries so as to manage that. The hard thing I think, though, is when people have expectations who you have no relation with whatsoever, and therefore have not set any boundaries because you ain't even do you understand?
Yeah, I don't even in my periphery. Yeah, I'm even thinking about you and like who you boo?
Yes, And those are the complex wants to really really navigate, like where it's it's you're not even I doesn't even thinking about you, but you have this expectation.
Of me, And don't you think people are our high school are like that though shout out to high school, but like five times PEPs be like school together and I'm like and yeah, like that was two thousand and one, two thousand and six, child, and twenty three, like absolutely have an allegiance to you. I don't know if it's because like we suffered together for six years in the bush,
I don't know what. I don't know, but if we ain't obviously we were in each other's spaces, so people feel like they know you, but you're like, yeah, but I was a teen and now I'm like a grown ass woman adults.
Yeah, and also think about it because we were a small school. Obviously, you engage with people always in some capacity, however, but we were never we were never we're never taed like that.
It was never like that.
Y'are rolling and then all of a sudden, you don't know, You're like, why am I? Why am I? Under fire knows what I'm talking about?
You said every you go clearly, and then you're like, WHOA, I never said it is, well, how did we get here? I was just living my life because also the especially I think it's tough. I mean, I've had someone put boundaries against you, like, hey, don't be you're not allowed, don't don't not not don't see this table energy. But just have you had a time when you thought, like, we're talking about weddings, so, I mean it seemed like
we're the ones flinging people off. But have you ever been a time when you've been flung off when you.
Thought I've not been invited to weddings?
Yeah? Yeah, Cela VI.
And like I think I've always maybe because I like my space, I've always kind of like, yeah, I respect that they have their reasons. We're not that close. Would I have loved to go? Sure, but you know, do you and especially after getting married now, I'm like i'd be understanding. I'll be like, you know, do you.
Like the budget needs to a budget, the budge.
Needs to budget. Yeah, I really think about that. And I definitely have had boundaries set or I can't recall exactly where someone was like, oh you can't oh maybe I wasn't invited to party. Maybe I don't know.
I'm good to me. I know my limits. I don't go over.
Its always been like it's fine, you know, yeah, it's fine. I can I can handle it for the most part, and I'm sure, of course, there have been situations where I've been like, chah, you know, it'd been cool to be part of homo or whatever, But in the same breath, I'm like, it wasn't for me.
It is what it is, you know.
I think you and I can relate to that because they're probably overthinkers.
So before I.
Wasn't even there's a chance to let the band it down.
You already like I'm sensing, I'm sensing that maybe maybe I'm not gonna be there. I mean plans with my other homies.
I've already done this scenario in the shower. I know I ain't going and how I'm going to react, So you no time to hurt me.
I got already hurt myself, like already got I think I do think that's probably why you and we probably haven't had because I'm trying to think those people who do that to us.
Do they really think like we homies?
And it's like obviously they do, so why what's the difference in character of personality? And it must be that we already have those boundaries like no, but we're not cool like that. Yeah, and some people don't roll like that. Some people really do think no, no, no, I'm cool, we're about it.
Yes, you know, yes, I definitely don't have that energy.
No, I'm I'm probably the opposite. Sometimes I even like downplay my relationship with someone but way like and I'm like, oh, oh, you want me to speak at your wedding, or like oh my god, I don't even think you know, I feel like honored. It's more like because I really like put myself on the so the overthinker in me has already been like no side, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm just
an acquaintance. Especially with work buddies. I've found a lot of times I've underestimated my impact in terms of friendship because you know, when you're like having work functions, the person at work could be talking about there whatever it is function coming up, and obviously when you're planning a function and you're coming to work all the time, you tend to then talk about it with your work colleagues and then maybe they invite you. This is the thing
to yourself, Ah, maybe I'm what a pretty invite. You know, It's not really like I'm not rolling deep with this person. And then you get there and you realize, oh, actually this person's actually really leaning on me. And since they've been chatting about a work and you know, going through color schemes and all these things that you've been chatting about, you actually did have an impact much more.
And it's always that weird thing where the overthinking enemy.
Is like, oh, oh sorry, oops, you know whatever, Yes for chatting, but this person's actually really valuing.
Your opinion and letting you in into that like in a space.
But I think also it could be trauma met like how you and I overthink and then downplay our kind of roles some of there.
Right, Like, yeah, for sure, there's some therapy sessions I need to.
Be add that's not necessarily healthy to be like, oh I don't matter that much to that prience. Yeah, because on the flip side of that, you have the whole I don't have anyone, like then you go extreme, at least I do, because I'll be like, oh girl, I got no friends. I'm alone in this world. I don't I go through those places, right, and of course no.
One, no one understands me, yes, Like it's.
Only me in this world and got me. You only got you girl, And my husband's right there and I'm like, no, but you only got you girl. It's only you in this world. So obviously this are very yeah.
Out side of that, just yeah, yes, there's some people we just don't have that aspect.
I've along you don't work.
Because even at the funerals, this are the ones who'll be coming climbing from the game and you're like, don't you get boundaries?
Like you know?
And then sometimes, like you know, I recently had a workmate of mine her husband passed away, and it's like she wants me to stay when we at the funeral, and I'm thinking, what why, Like, dude, yeah, with your family now. But she also, I guess also in saying that she wanted that comfort of just talking about anything else apart from you know, just tell me some more gossip,
anything to get our mind off things. But I also had to respect her allowing me into that inner circle for that time being, because it's like, Wow, this is actually like a revered space to be in real life. And yeah, but like I already like how my king is at my bag? Like need to jump back around.
Please this But the thing is I think in those situations and I've noticed it, sometimes you really do want a friend because family gets so intense. And I found it even at my wedding and Maroa. I've said it to you and my other bridesmaids close friends. I was like, y'all helped me done. Because as as anyone starts being like, you just need someone who's like, what do you need? I got you, or just to come in and you guys just swooped in and did you know what I mean?
And it just takes no questions asked as someone who can read you and knows you. And even if you can just say, okay, this is stressing out, they'll be like, you don't need to worry about that.
Yeah yeah, h I'll deal with that. Come talk to me. Yeah yeah yeah.
So that there's a place for that. But sometimes we end up re doownplay because what bloodbeat think about water?
Yeah, especially in these spaces. I mean like I mean, I was obviously blessed to be at your waiting. I was blessed to be a two's waiting and then you're like, okay, I'm the one with this person and diaspora, right, but like now when the real quote unquote family is around,
what's my role? Like, you know, so it's like, okay, then do I just and I guess, as you said the inner child, it means like, you know, you're not alarmed, don't have to invite you, you know, because it's like such a weird and I think a lot of people who live in the USPROBA probably feel this a lot, where it's like your friends become your family.
But then when the real.
Quotes unquote family is around and maybe you've really spent much time with them, because I mean, come on, we can't all afford to see our family all the time, then it's like, okay, now you're saying, oh, this is my friend Rumby, who I always and now always. But then I was like, how do I introduce her into this? Because they also feel like I'm your sister, I'm your brother, I'm your He's like the weird thing of really boundaries.
Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I think what's great is now friends are meeting family, like you've met my family over and over and you know they know you, and likewise like you've included me with your family with myself family, Like so it goes. But I totally get there's always this line of.
Like then you know, yeah, yeah, I remember the.
Last was it last? Did you see each other the last Christmas?
Yes?
Yes, oh my god, such a long time I know.
But like even then when you're like, oh, come stay with the family, and I was like, yeah, right, because you're like, what's my place? And how to have friends who get that in a way, because now pins out like in places where you don't belong, you're just entering.
Yeah, will make you feel at ease, Like I would hope that even when you came to stay with myself that you were at ease, not like you've invited me to this space.
Now I feel like an outsider, like what's happening here? Like I don't know.
It's so then our families get too comfortable with you know, like you don't need to be so comfortable.
And even Valencin in five years they act like they saw you yesterday.
Yeah. Even with your homies now they're getting to come from like relass relax homies as an extension of you who goes.
How do you think boundaries play a role in like romantic relationships, work, friendships, etc.
Uh? Crucial necessary, And I think people think it's weird. I'll take relationships. I think people think it's weird to have romantic relationships, specifically boundaries and romantic relationships. But I'm like, oh, that's the most important because you need to be able
to trust someone. And I think you can be very honest and open with someone and vulnerable with someone, but also have certain boundaries, like, for instance, like being able to say, you know, I just need some me time now, Like that is't wrong, that's just like you need to feel up on yourself, and likewise they will need to. You know, we're not trying to be codependent as people things like that or you know, I would really appreciate like we don't share. You don't talk about this aspect
of my life with X people. That's setting a boundary, they know. But you're saying like when it comes to sharing, like let's just keep it between you and I. That's the part of the trust and so on and so forth.
Worksh Hey, the work, ones, man, I'll let you take a fast work.
Want to be thick and fast because PEPs who.
Like I went from on Perth, I used to be like, no, young, innocent, she's your first job. Like and then as I said, right, of social media. I've been friends with everybody at work. Then that day take a day off. You're like, you know, I got to be hiding people from you know, Like I mean I went from bad extreme yeah, to like the other extreme now where I'm like, I'm not friends with my work like outside of work, it's your work colleague.
Like that is literally it.
And I think it's just because obviously, I guess a lot of boundaries are learned by being burnt where you're like, okay, maybe now it's two.
It's like the lines are being blurred.
Now information you know is a friend supposedly now you're using against me at.
Work, you know what I mean. It's it's like and really I don't want.
To be my friend sometimes in the situation.
Yeah yeah, it's really when it's like a ladder to clown, it's like, you know, putting against each other.
Then it's like, yeah, no, I need to sit bounce people.
Also, because for me, I think I go into as much as I'm saying, I'm like, oh I said boundaries or I have mad love for people, like I care about people the people if I if I care about you, I really do, really and truly. So if we are developing a quote unquote friendship within a work environment. I feel like I should you know, you want to trust this person, but I don't learned. If you don't work, you learn that. Yeah, often times that's not the case
and you can't fully trust in those scenarios. So for me, I'm with you. I'm like, maybe we can go for drinks, like you know, once in a while, just to be like sociable and all that. But that's about it.
Yeah, I feel like the ones that get crossed a lot for me are friendships.
This is like someone just thinks at I know you have known you, you know what it's like.
No, but now I want to do it this way, and I want to rewrite my story.
I don't want to do that anymore.
Let's say, for example, I'm just throwing out something like like I don't want to drink anymore, and this is a friend you used to drink with, and it's like there's always that like pressure like no, but we used to always do this. Because people don't also want to let go of things they've always done right, especially when you seemingly seem like you're above that now or you're over that now and they're not, and it's like, yeah,
but I've changed, my story has changed. I'm not the same old person, like as much as i'm your friend. But then it's like then you find those people like I don't know if you've ever had this, I've had this a lot, like when you go back to zim and you go back with a friend, or even when I went back to myself and it's like, oh my gosh. Even the way you speak is different, even the way you like, but it's like you revert.
Back to the person you used to that.
Yeah, like you know you're wrapping or the lingo used to wrap in high school or whatever it is like with that person, because that's the bond that you had.
But then now you're like, no, but now I'm this new.
Other person and at the tipele don't respect boundaries and it becomes a bit like oh she changes, like not changing, it's just that with different people like what you used to know absolutely and I've had it.
Not this, I mean similar to what we were talking about earlier, where people still box you into this thing that this is who you are and you're like, no, sweetie, not anymore. You knew me at like thirteen. That was how many years ago. So absolutely, and for me, I think with friendships, it's I've been very blessed and you're not spoken about this. I don't have a plethora of friends or like a you know, I have a good group of core friends and people who are friends, you know,
in an extended way. But I've been blessed that the core group of friends I've had have almost developed most of the friendships have developed into a form of sisterhood, if that makes sense. And with that being able to say, Okay, you're in this phase and understand each person's phase, like this is where you're at, and respecting and just supporting a lot of the times, not being in communication as frequently as we would if we live in the same place and.
The same you know. Yeah yeah, But so that.
Has been a blessing for me. I think the hard part is new friendships as I've become an adult, of like trying to create these friendships and what are the boundaries or like, you know, I'm not always up to do this or you know, and things like that that I find is something I've had to navigate as an adult.
It's like trying to push myself out of my comfort zone because hey, you want to make friends in the space you're in, but then also being like, okay, give and take, because as adults, you're so quick to be like, you know, this is too much work by you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, it becomes like that absolutely, And so you're trying to set boundaries by but also still be open to developing and enriching the friendship, which is something in and of itself.
So yeah, how have you reacted when boundaries have been pushed?
Though? How do you think you react?
You just got me thinking about it, Like, when someone doesn't respect your boundaries?
How does one react?
Because I know for me, like, I find it hard to have those conversations.
I think because I'm like, I don't know, come off as rude.
But I also like, but then I think for me, I don't like having uncomfortable conversations, especially if we're not close like that, Like it's a very weird thing. And when boundaries across, I try to give my perspective respectfully and then leave it at that. I'm also I'm not afraid to like let go away girl, and I've been
and I've been unalized for that. I've been told like, oh, just you could just so you know, but I really maybe because as since forever, as we spoke about, I've been able to just do me and I know I have, like I said, a good core group of people who are truly there for me and support me. So I'm like, you know, what we're not going to do is you're not going to what's a reverse psychology? What reverse psychology? My request for partner?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's hard because you know, you want friendships to work out, you want things to go in a certain way. But at the same time, I'm like cost benefit, I'm balanced, and the cost is too high. It's fine, It's fine.
Yeah, And I'm the family as well, even like financial boundaries.
Someone has been so hard for me.
Could you end up just like not letting people in because you're like, you're gonna use this against me, You're gonna so like it's so hard because it's like, you know, no, it's a complete sentence, and it's hard for people, especially Zimbabwean people to.
Understand as you know, they an explanation.
Or then you end making up stories and it's just like no, but when you ask someone a question or ask someone for help, I can say no and that's okay, And I think that's a concept was still trying to wrap our heads around, especially like zim familiessus, like no, I've asked you, so I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. And it's like okay, So whether I said yes or no, it didn't matter. It was just like, Okay, this is what this one needs to happen, and it's going to happen.
It was like, I think that I've learned a lot since moving to Australia, like exercising that no or just plain ass and ignoring people or sometimes just not even responding.
I'm just like, oh, that.
Family encroaching thing you and you and I talk about it all the time, and it's like, is the thorn in the side of my flex just All said in one of his versus, I think it's Philippians, maybe Corinthia. I don't know. No, that's gone and yeah. And then when you try to set boundaries, it's like who you, what are you?
Yeah? Or who am I to you?
I'm your I'm your dad, Yeah, their hands, you should treat me like this. And I feel like especially our parents' generation and older didn't have boundaries. Their boundaries are constantly like being disrespected. So to them, they're like no, no, no, older people can can disrespect your boundaries, doesn't matter. Like once I'm older person tells you to do something, you do it. So then for them to then flip their hands to realize that their kids want boundaries, it's like what.
Is this?
You know, when I ask for something, I get it from my child, like that is the way it works.
And then you're like no, no, no, no, no no no, there's not the way it works.
That's no exactly, But do you feel that once boundaries are set, it's an opportunity for us to rewrite our story or day to day life like do you.
Think I do? I do?
I think?
I mean?
I mean my message.
But also being a new mom has been another opportunity to set boundaries because people will be like with your if you're like willing really with your child people also just so you you like also need to then know what you what what are boundaries and what are like Okay, maybe I'm being too much of a helicopter mom here or maybe like no, really I have to advocate and set boundaries for my kids, you know, like a recent one of mine is. To give an example, is like
talking about jeroms hair. So a lot of times jeroms around Caucasian kids. So to them when they see they, oh, I love is curls, And the next word they use is wild.
I love as curls.
There's so wild, And you're like, you aren't necessarily wild, you don't know. They make it seem like it's a joke, like it's a passing comment and a part of the.
Yeah girl.
At some times it's like, after a while, I'm like, Okay, no, actually, I don't want this to be a repeated statement, repeated sentiment around his hair.
Yes he has curls.
Yes they grow wherever way they are really, Yes they're not going to be perfectly coiled and growing whatever. But it's like the word wild to me is wild like that so upon a lot of times, and now I'm correcting people. That's a boundary for me. I'm like, no, I'm really intentional about what I say about us hair. So please you know you can use it or like And I think people say it without thinking.
But it's like, when you're already added.
You don't need all these words that make you feel even more.
I know it's only one but it's like I need to start.
I love us here, girl, that's a sentence. Stop stop, It's all good, nothing more.
And like the touching, obviously that's another thing standard and you're just like, yeah, okay, I need to now set boundaries and be like very swift and fast with them. I can't just be like ha make people feel everyone feels comfortable apart from me and him, Like, what's the point in that?
Yeah, yeah, you know, that's.
That's that's I don't know, what do you think about rewriting our.
Story absolutely, because as you said, our ancestors probably didn't even have boundary. What none of the vocabulary. Is there even a show a word and really word for boundaries. I don't actually think there's a boundary boundary. They'll be like say what now, so there was no such thing. And I think our people are learning, like by us now trying to re set these boundaries, re rewriting the narrative of being black zoom a woman African child. And I think it takes a lot of gods men, because
it'd be rough. And you know, for me, it's at this age still having a fear of telling my parents no or saying I want this so I don't want this or this is where I'm going or and just I'm like, I'm thirty five, I tt you, how is that normal? And then I Youmber, you know, when we were kids would go visit my grandparents and they're very religious. So my aunts and uncles, you know, they pretend they don't drink. They just be drinking out of monks, you know. And by looking at them and I'm like, we all
know you drink, we all know mons. But because they were at their parents' house, they were now drinking out of the mug. You know, they knew the boundaries, Yeah, exactly. So it's kind of us setting and saying like this is who I am, and you know, hopefully for the betterment of our future generations and children, because YO like this boundary, this life, Like I just think of just the lack of privacy and just you know what you what I say goes or what do you mean you
need time? What do you mean you need space? What do you mean you are this that or other? Like where you know in your spirits you don't need this or don't want this, or don't want to be around this family member or don't need this family member's opinion or don't need so many things, and then it's like you had no right and it's like wow, do you know how? You know? It takes away your authority for your own life. So I think it's definitely we're starting
to rewrite and it's hard. So anybody out there struggling.
Charlie, there weren't you.
I'm right when you're on that. Actually, someone who.
Is listening, how do you think they can set their own boundaries?
What do you think the first steps would be?
Well, I think the first steps actually are an understanding of what makes you comfortable and what makes you uncomfortable, because I think when you have grown or been in an environment so long where you haven't had boundaries, you start not understanding or hearing yourself. And I think I literally went through a moment where my inner child we all have an inner child or in a person, was like, basically, you're you're doing me wrong, right, You're doing a gangster like,
who's taking care of me? Who's protecting me? That's literally how it felt. I felt so exposed and so like I'm cared for, so taking a moment to listen to say, Okay, I don't feel comfortable when X happens. I don't feel comfortable when why happens. Start by paying attention to that, and then what environments do those feelings come up in or what situations? And it's just learning. It's hard to say no, y'all is hard.
Yeah, it's awkward in some ways. It's awkward, right because you also I feel like you also have to learn.
Which language to use.
And I say this from work as well, like because obviously you know WhatsApp, someone who grab your number from work for whatever reason, maybe you went to a conference, I don't know, whatever the reason, and then now they're like, Yo, what's up, baddie, And you're like, ah, no, like there's a boundary. You know, that number was only given that certain scenario, not for you to now hollow at me and.
See my status and not just to be lucking you, you know. So it's like it's like learning that as well.
Like I've learned, I've learned the last couple of years to really be like and swift with things. I feel like sometimes a lot of people's excuse is, ah, but.
You never had a problem with this, you know? Now? Why is it a problem now? Like you know what I mean, and I was like, yeah, now I do or I.
Didn't find the words to tell you before and now it really see the effect this has on me. I don't like it, like don't don't do this, don't do that, and like I feel like yeah, finding the right language where it's like it still lands okay, but it's still firm enough to be like, yes, this this being.
And you may find that you may actually need to start with that block button or limiting who can see your WhatsApp stages or unfriending. I went through a phase of that heavy and I was just like, uh, we not I don't feel and you know, things like that. You know how we they say we should what cleans our.
Feeds or social media?
Yeah, I think it's the same would say who has access to you and your social media? That's why you have an accounts. You can also do that. Yeah, I just I just went through a phase where I was like I just don't need that. And also choosing where I share and for me mostly yeah, I think that I share is probably one on one direct conversation with me and somebody. So it evolves and then eventually you
just say I'd rather not you know, I'm sorry, I can't. Still, I still feel like I over explained myself.
I was about to say that, especially in the workspace someone who hollered you after five and they'll be like, I don't can you do this? And now we're like, no, sorry, I can't. I got a doctor's no. No, it was a complete senterm.
No, it's a completing and it's okay, just to good morning, exactly, I'll deal with this tomorrow morning. Or like if someone messages you, I will not open the message until work. Yeah, that's that's when I am exactly. Yeah, I don't know.
I think I've learned.
You have to learn to be unapologetic with it, like you're not being rude, You're just actually stating your boundaries. And there should be within the confines of where it makes sense, like obviously, if you mean to be at work and you're like, I know, only answered tomorrow doesn't make sense exactly.
Like his name?
What was that guy?
That Jewish the chumpster? What's his name? He was in youth? That was no, no, no, no, he's one of those, Yes, one of the one I know the session.
Yes, yes, I need to find this.
Let me find Jonah Hill, Jonah Hill, don't be Jonah Hill. Okay, if y'all don't know what Jonah Hill did. He was dating a surfer. They met, she was a surfer and obviously she wore swimsuits for her job. It's like that's her life and he's been going through therapy. Isn't even as a show on Netflix right about therapist because he's so woke now you know, he can't shut them eyes
sometimes he needs to do, I feel. But basically he gave her an ultimate time yeah, and ultimatum, saying I don't like when you wear certain things when you're surfing. I don't like you surfing with dudes. I don't like controlling. These are my boundaries. I don't want to be with someone who is what what what? That is misuse of boundary and therapy speak, because he absolutely knew who he was going into a relationship with. He probably was into her because she dressed.
On the side.
Yeah yeah, yeah, mort you know things like that. So obviously we're not saying use it manipulatively, but use it to because ultimately, what your boundaries are for, it's for protecting and caring for yourself, especially.
In your sanity.
Yeah, your sanity and I was talking about that inner child that in a person with you because you know and you something don't feel right. How man, how many horror stories, thrillers documentaries have you watched when they're like, oh, I knew something wasn't right. Gabrielle Union, when she had her unfortunate experience and ended up being raped, she writes about it and talks about she's like she just knew,
like she had an inkling feeling. And it's not to say these people are to blame, but I think what they're saying is we sometimes over rationalize and say no, no, no, I'm being ridiculous, No, no, no, but it's some something within you is telling you it ain't right. Yeah.
Yeah.
And I find like boundaries are personal a lot of times. They don't have to do with what everybody else is doing. Yes, you're just saying for me, this is.
How I operate.
So like in the in the Jonah Hill situation, it's not like you should just be like, this is how I operate. I don't want to partner who then that's a decide whether it stays with her or not.
Not you where where you change, then it's God.
Now that's control and manipulation because it's in a lot of times it's just your own set of rules for yourself that you have to protect yourself and they got nothing to do with the other's around their own, and then you just try and respect each other. I find a lot of times people start to use it as yes, you're saying a control mechanism where it's like no, but I don't like that.
It's like no, no, no, that's not a boundary though.
Yeah. And then also, don't get pissed if you said those boundaries and someone is like, Okay, I'm out, But don't get pissed because it's like maybe that doesn't sit well with them, or it's just it's like so then you just don't now be like ah, but why don't you want to be my own?
Yeah? Yeah, and trivialize someone else's boundaries.
I find could do that a lot. So someone will say, oh, then you're like, ah.
Know that, like like that's such.
A like I told you out of you know, as a friend or whatever, but I didn't tell you so you.
Can mock me.
Yeah yeah and some food.
Yeah, oh girl, But do.
You think that in boundaries or your story changes over time? Because we spoke earlier about Okay, maybe it wasn't a thing, and then now it's the thing. Is like, now I have a boundary. So do boundaries change over time? Do you think you can get comfortable with something that maybe used to stress you out?
Or yeah, I feel like I mean, we are evolving as a people every decade we grow up, and I mean some start in my twenties they to do the Lord I'll never do now. So it's like I do think as there's some core values called beliefs, call boundaries that probably would never change, but then there's some stuff that will maybe evolve over time or you think differently about it, or you meet someone else with a different take on it, and then maybe you might adopt that.
Or I mean we're not so rigid right as the people.
We get influenced by different things at different times, at different rates. So I do think your story as much as your story is changing over times. As you're growing older, you're going wiser. And yeah, even even boundaries around you know, sexuality, the way you see yourself. I mean there's so many stories that people who like later on in life will find out that they're you know, lesbian or gay and
they and their minds change around all of that. So I feel like we set boundaries for ourselves at a certain time, but I.
Don't think it's set in stone. Yeah, that's sae.
And I think what basically what life and the whole ecosystem of this life we live is that change is a constant like and inevitable. Yeah, in the words of Jene I Go, change is inevitable. Why hold on to what you have to? Let go? Okay, that's a really good song, by the way, but basically that it's an inevitable part of our lives. And being a to be fluid and be forgiving two others of like, be understanding,
show a bit of empathy, and also do yourself. If you yesterday you didn't like crocs, and today you want to buy a pair of crops, do you It's all right, it's okay. You know. I heard they're really comfortable. I still haven't committed yet, but I heard they're really comfortable, So you know what I mean. It's like, yeah, I like stuff to be influenced exactly exactly, but like some you know, we hold it. I said, I will never be.
Seen with X y Z.
And then it's like I mean people like that around dating. Interracial dating is a big one. Not people will tell you I never saw myself dating outside my race, so my culture or my blah blah blah, and then you're just like, wow, here are your person?
Is your person? Is your person? Yeah yeah, so yeah, we hope, I don't know, hopefully that gave you guys some insight into boundaries. Obviously, I'm sure we could have used more clinical terms. Not really, that's not what this podcast is about. But hopefully it gives you some you know, you know, inspiration. Some of us are definitely working on boundaries.
Boundaries as a work in progress with African or.
At the struggle is real. So you're not alone, let me tell you that anyway. So what's a zoom shout out for today? Amanda lim shout out.
So we're all about books and we'd like to read sometimes or actually, this is a book that's centered more aimed more at young young girls and one boys. But it's called Mighty Women of Africa. It's authored by Yemupt. Yeah, it pretty much is a book that celebrates ten inspirational and remarkable women of African descent in various fields of work.
So a lot of times. Obviously, it's the representation and matters.
And especially for young kids to see you know, scientists and lawyers and doctors and singers and everything like, you know, just to see that we're a myriad of people. So yeah, we'll definitely share the Amazon link. Obviously if you've got little kids at home, we're looking for books that might inspire where they can see themselves. Written by fellows Zimbabwean. We will share this book with you.
Yes, kudos to that and represent especially I don't know how to especially in spaces where there are fewer of us. It's so so crucial and also to believe so you believe like I can be that too, I can do that.
Yeah.
Yeah, the inspiration is real people really well remember like oh my gosh, you know you think you're not being an impact, but but yeah, when you break that ceiling, it's it's it's good for everyone coming after you.
Absolutely, So thank you for that, and thank you all for listening to another episode of our podcast, and we'll see you on the next one.
See you guys. Season Fat.
I think we'll be saying this every time Season Fat that they heard, they done heard Season five? Yeah, but yes, Season Fat.
Bye guys, Bye guys. Yeah yeah yeah yeah