Oh yeah, it could happen here a podcast where I just made my colleagues I can see them through the zoom deeply uncomfortable by opening this podcast with with with a sound that you shouldn't make in the workplace. I'm Robert Evans. Joining me today is Mia Wong and Garrison Davis me. I take it from here.
Oh boy, So it's been a you know, this is Okay, So this, I guess is now like last week's Twitter thing. But okay, so also not this is this is this is not a Twitter thing? No, well it kind of is.
It kind of is, but like let's not let's not frame this as a Twitter thing.
Yeah, okay, okay, So what this is we we are okay, we have been experiencing in the last you know, like half decade, actually belonging from that, because it's like this seventy eight years now, like the the sort of incredible rise in casual American anti semitism and the level of anti semitism that you could just do in in sort
of public discourse and it's quote unquote fine. And one of the sort of biggest indicators of this is the like the the extent to which it's now socially acceptable to just do the most like absolutely like unhinged, like antisemitic conspiracy theories about George Soros. And specifically the thing that specifically was like, Okay, I need to do this episode was last week Elon Musk like compared George Soros to Magneto and then said, quote, you assume they are
good intentions. They are not. He wants to erode the fabric, the very fabric of civilization. Soros hates humanity. And this is just like the mainstreamline of the Republican Party now like they just all do this. You can just sort of I mean, and this and honestly like as bad, like you know, this is like the stuff that Elon Musk is saying is unbelievably unacceptable. That's not even anywhere near as bad as it goes. Like it's pretty common to just sho these people like talking about the Satan
Sorrow's agenda and shit. Now like it's it has gotten unbelievably unfathomably out of control. And so today I wanted to take a look at, Okay, who George Soros actually is, like the real human being and not the sort of like caricature projection that has been created of him on the right, and I wanted to also sort of look
at why the right hates him so much. And you know, Soros is kind of an interesting figure because he falls like right in the middle of like our two shows about people, because he's not he's not really like a cool person. He does cool stuff, but though he does stuff that's cool sometimes, but he's not also like a bastard properly.
So though he's done some bastardy stuff too.
Oh he has, We are going to talk about that.
Yeah, he said, he's a Yeah, I mean.
Most of what this episode is about, he's.
I would say he's like twenty percent more complicated than the average billionaire A on a more Yeah.
I think I think like twenty or thirty percent. Yeah, there's somewhere in that neighborhood. Yeah, you know, and I think there's three George Soros's. Two of them are real and one of them is fake. There is you know. So George Soros is a billionaire philanthropist, right, and you know, so that means that he has a sort of billionaire side and a philanthropist's side, and they are very often working across purposes. Sometimes they're not working sometimes there he
aligns them together, sometimes he doesn't. And so the way I've sort of structured this is like the first episode we're gonna be talking about the sort of billionaire side and how he did that, and the second episode is going to be more about the philanthropist's side, and how both of these basically have been kind of accidentally structured in such a way that the right was like, oh my god, this is the perfect guy to do atise
medic conspiracy theories about. And then there's also the third George Soros is like the one who's just literally the devil who the Republicans have made up And yeah, so George Soros was born to a Jewish family in Hungary in nineteen thirty, which is not not a good time to be born into a Jewish family in Hungary.
No, really, there's not a good time to be born to a Jewish and family in Hungary until like I'm gonna get I'm gonna say sometime in the fifties.
Yeah, you know, I will say that it gets way like it it is way worse when he is born than it was in like even like the eighteen nineties, which is like not a great time, but it's gotten significantly worse. He is fourteen when the Nazis invade Hungary nineteen forty four, and this is the point at which we get to our first Soros conspiracy, which is that there's this, there's this.
It's a little more complicated than that. It's not really the Nazis, and well it's a little more complex than when extermination of the Hungarian Jewish community begins really in nineteen forty four.
Yeah, yeah, And so there's a thing that happens. I don't know. He and his dad have a kind of complicated like set of things they survive. And there's a part of the story that gets picked up by the right that gets if you've ever heard Alex Jones talk about sorows, like the second or third thing he will say is that like Soros is a Nazi collaborator, was like a willing collaborator with the Nazis, which is not true. And also like he's fourteen, like you know, like I.
Don't really call even like fourteen year olds and the Hitler youth willing collaborators because they're children. Yeah, you have to have a lion at some point, even with Nazis, where if their kids they're not really morally responsible either way.
Yeah, and like, you know, so the speific thing that he does, there's these notices that are sent up by the government that's like telling Jewish people to like go like to a place and if you go to the place, you're gonna get routed up and killed. And basically, so the thing that actually happened is that so Georg Ros's dad is told to do this, and he gives it to George Soros and is like, go tell these people that they've been called for this and that if they go,
they're like they're gonna get taken away. And this has been transformed by you know this that is this is a nightmarish thing and these people are surviving. This has been transformed by a bunch of the worst people wh've
ever lived into Nazi collaboration. Which is also you know, the part of the story that never gets told, even even when people sort of like do the like dive into like oh this is fake, is that the thing that like Soros's family spends the rest of the war doing is basically getting like counterfeit papers to Jewish families that like says that they're Christian, and you know, they like they stay legitimately save a bunch of families from dying in the Holocaust, and.
You know the ship that Joeanes pulls on them as like part of this because of like the job this guy who's like saving young George Soros has involves like basically like itemizing stuff left behind by Jewish families forced out of their homes. He's like they were profiting off of the holl No, they were like doing whatever job kept them under the radar while they attempted to help. Like it was the Holocaust, it was messy. Yeah, but like it's almost like saying like Oscar Schindler took advantage
of slave labors. Well, no, it's actually what Schindler was doing was not that. Yeah, Like he was using the trappings of this slave labor system in order to rescue people. It's quite different from just enslaving people.
Yeah. I think the thing that's really desturbing about the stow right is like, Okay, like this is like Alex Joses Alex Jones, Right, he's just gonna say the worst shit you've ever heard. But like this is like a thing that mainstream right wingers just say. Now, yeah, and it's just unbelievably horrible and it sucks and it's just like not true. But fortunately for George Soros, his family makes it through the Holocaust, well his immediate family does, and they like get out and they end up in
the US. And this is where, Okay, this is something, this is something that I think is very important to the story that isn't told very much. So Soros is like a finance whiz, right, he is very very very good at finance. And we're gonna be talking a bit about like how like the things that he figured out
to let him do this, because it's interesting. But he's also not from the sort of like American or the British financial elite, Like if I don't there's like a certain kind of person, right who like goes into finance, and you know it's like like like wasp frat brose or like in bred British aristocrats, right, And George Soros is like a hung is a Hungarian immigrant, right. He
he is not sort of from these people. He is like and and you know this is this is gonna be a really big deal when he like goes up against a British financial elite later on. But you know, he threw sort of like he's able to turn like a job doing door to door salesman into like a way into a firm, and he's able to sort of work his way up to a point where like he has suddenly like has his own hedge fund, and he is really really good at this. He's one of the
sort of early people who does hedge funds. There's a great book called The Influence of Soros, Politics, Power, and the Struggle for an Open Society by Emily Tampkin, who did a lot of really great work, like interviewed Soros, interviewed an enormous number of the people who were around him, and I want to read a passage of this about like how he figured out how to sort of beat
the market. He's talking about this guy named Carl Popper, who's like a philosopher of science who also wrote this book called The Open Society that we'll talk about next episode more. Popper's philosophy made me more sensitive to the role of misconceptions in financial markets. Decades later, people believe that markets don't lie and shouldn't be and should be trusted, but that isn't true. Sorow's knew markets react to humans
and humans are fallible. Instead of looking at the money being made, or as Sebastian Malaby put it, in more money than God, his book on the history of hedge funds, the psychology that drove investors' appetites, Soros looked at how one impacted the other, predicting that each would drive the other forward until the trust were so completely overvalued that
a crash was inevitable. And this is this is really smart, like if you even today, right, you know, if you're able to understand that, you know, like the way a lot of hedgehoon people tend to think about the market as like the market, you know, especially in this period, is this is this sort of dogmatic, neo lible thing of like the market is like a perfect condvance of price signals and Sorow's just like no, it's made out
of people. And those people like get greedy. They have emotional stuff they like they give get into these like fomo like fear of missing out stuff. You know, they like intensely overvalue assets because everyone else sees the assets like expensive, so everyone like you know, rushes to buy it, and like this is something like like even now right, this is this is like a very smart way to
understand finance. He's figured this out in like the seventies, and if you, if you, if you're able to do this kind of stuff and like use this to understand how the market works in the seventies, you are going to look like a god among men. And he starts a hedge fund in nineteen seventy three, but by nineteen eighty one he has a fund that is worth three hundred and eighty one million dollars in like nineteen eighty one money. I don't know what that is in modern money,
but I assume it's a lot. I'm a hack of a fraud. I should actually figured this out.
Yeah, that's like a billion dollars.
Yeah, And like he personally is like has like for himself like one hundred million dollars, right, and he you know, at this point he starts to become sort of very famous in finance circles because you know, I mean he's just like absolutely destroying the market. Now, okay, this is where things get. You know, up until this point, he's kind of like he's been doing a lot of sort of finance stuff that's kind of shady, but it's mostly just been him, like ripping off other finance people, which
I'm entirely okay with, like that's just very funny. But he starts to get into currency speculation, and in nineteen eighty five he has one of his big breaks, which is he predicts the Plaza Chords. Now, okay, Aplasa chord is something we've talked about on the show before, but I need to talk about it a bit more because unfortunately it's we have to talk about the Asian financial collaps this episode. And this is a like one of the key moments of the Asian financial collaps even though
it was like a decade earlier. So in nineteen eighty five, Ronald Reagan is trying to like revive the US as a domestic manufacturing industry because it's like dying, and you know, and the reason part of the like a big part of the reason is dying is that they're getting absolutely destroyed by sort of German and like West German and Japanese manufacturers. And part of what's happening here is that particularly Japan's currencies are worth way currency is worth way
less than the dollar. This is called having a weak currency, and having a weak currency is really good for if
you have like an export based manufacturing economy. And so Reagan basically like walks into a meeting with like the Germans, Japanese government, the British and like few other people and just basically just like not quite in so many words, but basically just says like you are all American military protectorates, and because you're all American military protectorates, like I can I can force you to increase the value of your currency like or else capital O, capital e. And they do,
they comply, and this is this, this becomes this is a thing called the Plaza Cords and this this, you know, weakens the value of the dollar versus a bunch of other currencies. And this like literally handedly like restores the profitability of American manufacturing like through the nineties, which is
really wild. But the the other the important thing for this story is that I I don't know how he did this, but like George Soros predicts that this is gonna happen, and she makes an unbelievable amount of money basically like no, no, like basically doing currency speculation because he knows what, like currencies are going to increase in value, which you know, he knows that like uh. For example, he knows that like the Japanese yen is going to
increase in value. So he makes an enormous amount of money doing this stuff, and he gets very famous for like he'll like make it much of money, and then I'll lose it again, and then he'll make it again. And this all culminates in Okay, so they're they're okay. He starts taking ah, truly enormous bets, like against national currencies, and there's one of these that's just funny, and there's
one of these that's really bad. So we're gonna do the funny one first, which is so in nineteen ninety two Soros And this is the other part that they ever gonna talked about. It's like it's not just Soros
doing this stuff. He has like allies because like as big as Soros as for MBA is right, he can't him and his ally is gonna take a fifteen billion dollars short position on the pound, and even he doesn't have like nobody like this is like fifteen billion of nineteen nineties money, right, Like you need a bunch of
firms working together in order to do this. But he basically takes this massive bet the pound is gonna go down, and because of the way that these these bets work, like the actual value of the pounds like collapses, and the British Central Bank like like doesn't have enough. And the reason we're able to do is they figure out that the British Central Bank doesn't have enough money to stop them, like they don't have enough money to like maintain like they don't have enough reserves to like maintain
the value of the pound. And so he gets like completely blamed for this, even though again there's like other people involved in this, right, Like the front page of the Daily Mail is literally his face in the title I made a billion crashing the pound baste, which is I okay, so like an anti British level, this is very funny. It's no, there's a bunch of arguments about like what does this mean for like the world economy
and for national sovereignty. Soros thinks that like currency speculation is necessary evil and he has this sort.
Of tay to think that when you're making that much money, yeah right, you know.
Now, okay, this this like specific thing which is like a a a bank. A banker comes in and is able to manipulate the value of a currency. This is like, this is like absolutely like this is the fodder for like the absolute most paranoid fantasies of the anti Semitic right. Like it's this sort of like rootless cosmopolitan banker like attacks the good and righteous like noble people of Britain thing.
And this is how it gets framed in the press, who are like the press is I mean it's the British press, right, Like the British are not known for, you know, not being anti Semitic, so they just like go wild with this. But you know, like this particular
thing he's doing against the British. Part of what's happening here, right, is there's this sort of there's this kind of like national populist equation thing going on here, where there's this assumption that like the Bank of Britain, like the bank, like the British Central Bank is like an entity that is identifiable with like an ordinary person in Britain, and like no, like the British Central Bank is run by just unbelievably in bred aristocrats, right, and you.
Know I think they're pretty believably in bred.
Oh that's fair.
We're just talking about like like zero point five six of a Habsburg unit, you know, a hack. The Habsburg is the international unit for measuring how inbred someone is.
If you're if you're unaware, Yeah, yeah that that seems like a reasonable amount of inbred for these specific people. But you know, like but this is what I was talking about, Like at the very beginning, I was talking about sort of like Sorrow's not being from this sort
of like normal class of finance people. And the thing is, like the normal class of finance people are fucking terrible at their jobs, right, like these amber British aristocrats and like the fucking American like cocaine frat boys like like just like doing lines of cocaine off each other's as cracks. Like these people all suck at their jobs. And George Soros is like smart and is good at his job.
And so she just like absolutely goes through these people like a fucking flaming chainsaw, and she just like, you know, and the maneuvers that he's doing here, she just like absolutely humiliates all of the people at the at the British Central Bank. He's humiliating like and not just those guys too, it's humiliating the Tories. He's humiliating like all of the people who are seriously important in the real economy,
in the sort of real British economy. And he can do this right because like his opponents are you know, people who are like they're they're they're promoting, they're like they're they're they're okay, they take in like their people from college, right, and they're promoting the base off how
good they are at golf. And so when when he just sort of like like walks in and just makes it like makes like billions of dollars just like destroying these people, he makes just a permanent enemy of a very very powerful like faction of the British ruling class and the British ruling class. Like I don't know, they they it is hard to find people who will beat
the British ruling class in an anti Semitism off. And this is this is one of the things that sort of you know, if you're looking at like why Sorrow specifically is the guy who all of these sort of right wing conspiracies wind up being about, like part of it is because he pisses off these specif people.
Yeah, these guys who's like dads were all friends with the King of England, who was like a close personal buddy with Hitler. Like there it's a bunch of like, it's a bunch of guys who are already pretty bigoted and then they get beaten at their own stupid financial game. And so like the fact that it's a Jewish dude who does it means that they're going to be even
more racist than they already were. And the fact that there's plenty of international anti semitism and that George Soros after this starts funding liberal and you know, vaguely progressive causes like yeah, it's not this is not a it's not surprising that this is the way things went.
Yeah, and you know, and again, like I can't under emphasize the extent to which this is also very specifically the reaction to British media class. Who I mean, we know now that those people are psychos, Like we have seen them see a transperson at a boat race and like like ten years ago and like like draw a gi things circling them in a boat and making it a front page news story. Those people in the nineties were like sure, they are biological biologically better at navigation.
That is that has actually been improved. Yeah, but then they're like justice, they're they're they're just a sort of feral and like terrifying lead bigoted then as they are now. And this means that like like just if you're a regular British person and you are like walking down the street and there's a newspaper sand you are seeing like like they truly unbelievably terrifying anti Semitic shit, like just literally everywhere. And this this will have no consequences whatsoever.
Uh yeah, it's all good, nothing bad ever happens. And speaking of no consequences, I do you know what we can promise about about training services? Twenty three minutes in? You know, look you're welcome, Damnan. Okay, we're back and we have to talk about Okay. So the doing it to the British economy was mostly just really funny because
the British economy is going to be fine. And it's the funny part about she was doing it to the British economy is that this actually unfortunately helps the British economy because it forces the British to like abandon some truly spectacularly not very good financial policy they were doing. But then he does it to Thailand, and that is a lot less justifiable. So it in this is five years later, this is nineteen ninety seven. Sous brings in
some economists, Arminio Fraga, like Roddy Joe's David Kowitz. Uh he he brings He's bringing in people who are sort of experts in like developing market uh economics. And that's never no one has ever brought in a developing market economist for like a good reason. And what they what they realize is that they start doing analysis of Southeast Asia, like the Southeast Asian markets, and they realize very quickly
that Thailand is fucked. They they figure out that Thailand has Thailand has his currency pegged to the dollar and this, but you know, they don't have the reserves support this, and the tie like actual tai currency isn't strong enough to maintain like like stay being pegged to the dollars. It's not a strong enough currency. And so they do a two billion dollars short of of of like Thailand's currency. And I mean, I'm gonna read from the Influence of
Sorrows again about like the process of this. It was a debate we had. Jones told me we'd gone to work in Asia, and here you are taking large scale short positions in countries with institutional fragility. Going for the juggular in the United Kingdom was one thing doing the same, and Thailand was another. The Bank of England would surely recover. Thailand was a developing economy and it was unclear what
impact outside investors could have. Soros has justified speculation with the idea that it could serve as a kind of warning to governments. Look, Thai government, the bot needs to devalue. Change your policy now before a currency collapses, devastating for your people. The trouble is the Thai government didn't do this. Instead, it spent months using Bank of Thailand reserves to buy
Tai bot. When it finally ran out in early summer nineteen ninety seven, the value of the bot plunged thirty two percent against the dollar and millions of people lost Thai people lost their livelihoods. The Soros fund made seven hundred and fifty million dollars.
Yeah, it's a little bit like me being like, look, yes, I made a lot of money selling heroin to those middle schoolers. But really, when you think about it, it was a warning to those schools that it was too easy for me to bribe the janitor to sell heroin to kids there. You know, I was actually performing a public service. So true, Robert, It is just like that, you know.
To be fair, you know, I'm not going to every money. I'm not going to finish that thought. That's probably for the best.
Yeah, we need we need one person to remain uncanceled here to keep the lights on.
Oh God, doesn't have to be me.
Oh no, yeah, no, legally it does.
It's really bad. Yeah, no more joking, but yeah, we can't. We can't suffer any other jokes.
Yes, somebody's gotta upload this episode.
All right here, here, here, here's the next joke. Soros actually doesn't make money off of the speculation, if off of a speculating in Southeast Asia, because he loses basically the same amount of money taking like a long position in Indonesia.
Yeah, the same thing happened to me when I took a long position on doing cocaine in my bathroom with the money that I made selling drugs to all those kids. You know, we're a lot alike, him and me, we're a lot of like.
Well, okay, to be fair, to be fair, and this is okay, this is the thing. The reason I wanted to talk about this specifically is that, like, okay, like to this day, if you look under sort of if you if you every once in a while, someone someone, there'll be a tweet that's like, what did George Sorrows do? And immediately there will be a bunch of people talking about how he like deliberately destroyed all of the economies in Southeast Asia. Yeah, and that's not really what happened.
And that would be for one thing, too much to put on one guy fucking around with a cup.
Yeah. Yeah, And I wanted to actually kind of walk through this a little bit in depth just because okay, there's a really really easy way to think about the economy that is bad. It leads you into anti Semitic traps, which is like, hey, here is like one banker who wanted to make money, and because he wanted to make money, he like destroyed all these economies. And like, on the one hand, yeah, like like Sorrow's betting against like the tai currency is bad, right, like this is this is
not a thing you should have been doing. On the other hand, you know, okay, so that's like the sort of level one thing. But the thing about that, you know, this is the sort of this is the sort of
like great Man, anti anti Semitism theory of collapse. And this is the theory that a lot of the sort of regional leaders take, you know, because and this and this is sort of a crucial thing, right, this position very conveniently allows them to just like not think about capitalism in general or like their role in this in
this crisis, which is not insignificance. And so in order to figure out what what actually happened here, we need to look at so so Sorow sort of like tip like tip some dominoes, right, but the dominoes were already there and they were going like regardless even if Soros had never existed, right, Like, they were going to fall. And they're going to fall because ironically of the plaza coords. So you know, when we talked about the plaza courds earlier.
The US forces Japan to increase the value of its currency relative to the dollar. Okay, so this is great for the American economy. This nukes the Japanese economy, I mean the Japanese economy, you know. And we'll talk about this in a bit too. It was already kind of doing bad. When the US does this and its manufacturer economy just like implodes it. It guts the Japanese economy. It has The Japanese economy has never recovered from this. It probably will never recover really into what it was.
And you know, the effect this has is that now the government of Japan has to figure out how to grow their economy without having any way to make money that grows your economy. But now they have a stronger currency, and so their solution is, Okay, what did they all the central banking people look around each other and they go,
what is a strong currency good for housing speculation? And so they they start like they start, they start slashing interest race, and they start basically building an entire economy, uh, based on the assumption that housing prices will always go up, and so you should just take out loans so you could buy houses because the value of the housing will because you know, highing prices will always go up, so you can you can have all of these assets based
and mortgages. H This is this may may or may not be sounding familiar to everyone who literally thousand and eight I and so you know, in in like in like nineteen eighty two, the entire Japanese economy implodes sort of again because they they literally built the two thousand and eight machine. And so this this forces the US to do something called the reverse Plaza Cords, where they take the original Plaza records and they reverse it and
they increase the value of the American dollar. American manufactury dies like it's never recovered, it's never coming back. And this for a this kind of this stabilizes the Japanese a to be a little bit, but it means that the US now no longer has a functional economy. And so we do. Our solution to this is we need two thousand and eight. Right, we build an entire economy also on the Japanese model of currency speculat of you know, of like housing price speculation, ceculation of like or like
the rising prices of like stocks. Right, we build an economy completely made a bullshit. But you know, okay, but what does this have to do with the Asian market collaps? Okay? The problem is that like all of the countries and in East Asia and like Southeast Asia also do this. They also do the thing where they're like, oh, we're gonna we're gonna, we're gonna ba We're okay, so our manufacturing economies are declining, right, so we're gonna we're gonna
base our entire economy on housing prices going up. And you know that's and it's not George Soros. That's the thing that actually destroys like the sort of that's something that like that like actually destroys all of these economies.
And you know, and I wanted to sort of run through this, and you know, this is like a lot of like sort of econ shit, right, But the reason I wanted to run through this is that I think I think he gets at the sort of truly the truly horrifying thing about how our economy works that is really difficult to face, and is I think it's at least a part of why people really really want there to just be one guy who is running anything everything,
whether that's the CIA, whether that's Soros, whether that's like the New World Order. Yeah, right, because if there's if there's like a guy who's doing this, right, you can stop him. But the great horror of this world is that there is no deep state, right, there is no sataniscoball,
there's no one pulling the strings at all. The only thing that is there is just sort of the cold, lifeless and inexorable death logic of capital, and that logic is moving all of us, right, all you know, the people who are doing the conspiracies, insofar as they exist, are being moved by this. All of the rulers are being moved by capital. All of us, the subjects, are
being moved by capital. But that like sucks, right, Like the fact that all of these economies are destroyed not by like the individual actions of people, but by the fact that, like returns are less good in Thailand than they are in China. And this is just sort of the inectable logic of the entire economic system we have.
This is, you know, this is absolutely terrifying, and faced with this sort of reality, right, like, people who want to protect capitalism because you know, they have a bunch of assets in it, right, retreat into this sort of like they you know, they they use Soros as a smoke screen for like why everything is suddenly going wrong. But sort of simultaneous to this, right, this is also a real problem for George Soros because he's, like, you know, when he's not sort of in his role as like
capital He's like not a piece of shit. He's like a person who wants the world to be better. And this, you know, this causes a sort of there was a contradiction in his ideology, right, which is that he wants the world to be a better place, and simultaneously he's also a capitalist, and these two things are sort of warring with each other. Even as early as even as early sort of the nineties, he's giving speeches about how
like his open society that he wants. It's just sort of like this liberal democratic society of like laws and norms and human rights. The greatest danger Twitter ceased to be communism, it's now capitalism. But he can't do anything
about it because he is also a capitalist. And next episode, we're going to watch Soros like through his philanthropic endeavors, attempt to solve the problems that his economic system has caused and fail catastrophically and become the sort of boogeyman and the the anti sementic spector of every conspiracy theory in the world.
Yeah, so check out that next time. And you know, if you're hanging out around Clark Middle School and you have forty dollars. I can hook you up with some some of that sweet black tar, so you know, give me a ring. My phone numbers posted in the show notes of every episode It.
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