What’s Next for Stop Cop City

Cop City construction site in Atlanta, Georgia. Now, a few weeks ago I interviewed the two people going around the country giving the block Cop City Speaking Tour in preparation for this upcoming action next month in Atlanta. Like always, the opinions of those interviewed on the show don't necessarily reflect the views of the show or myself. And with this action in particular, there has been quite the variety of opinions regarding its risk level and its ideological and

tactical validity. But the action is going to happen. It is going to take place on November thirteenth, no matter you know some people disagreeing with aspects of it or having concerns about aspects of it, it is it is

going to take place. So my interest in putting out this episode is to have a very open and clear discussion regarding some of the questions people have about this quote unquote nonviolent action, and also provide enough informations that people can make their own informed decision regarding what's going to happen next November. So with that, here is my conversation with Sam and Jamie from the Block Coop City speaking tour. Joining me today is Sam from Block Cop

City and Jamie Peck. Both of you have been going around the country I think it's around seventy cities right now, doing a speaking tour to talk about this upcoming action in November to block cop City. Thanks for coming on, guys, No problem, Yeah, thanks for having us. So I assume anyone who's listening to this is already familiar with cop City, whether through their own their own keeping up with the news, or even if they're just even if they just listen

to the show. We have covered cop City quite extensively the past like two years. So let's talk about this this kind of upcoming action, because it's very different than kind of the previous mobilizations that we've seen, which have taken form as like weeks of action. We had one last last June. We had one the previous march. So what's different about this new upcoming three day kind of mobilization.

want to let the people vote. But on the other hand, right, lots of people know about it, lots of people oppose it, But the number of people who are willing and able to show up and do direct action against it has dwindled, and that's for a few different reasons. Right, there's been so much repression of the movement. One hundred people at

least are now facing charges. We've got people facing domestic terrorism charges, We've got people facing RICO charges, just like an absurd overreach of the state, even according to mainstream legal scholars. So we really need a way for people to feel empowered doing direct action again. And this is what we've settled upon as a solution, and maybe Sam can take it from there.

diverse tactic. Right, This movement has seen incredibly diverse tactics over the last two years, all sort of moving in unison with one another. And we sort of see block Cop City as just another type of tactic in a larger repertoire of a toolkit. You know, we haven't actually had an instance of over a thousand people doing embodied direct action in the forest, like that's never occurred in this campaign. We've had a lot of people during some weeks of Action, but this is a little bit different

in the scope. It's a little bit different in flavor. I liked what you were saying, Jamie about the sort of like a lot of other sort of convergences in Atlanta that were called weeks of action where we're distributed, we're very autonomously organized, and we're sort of treading a line between like the main sort of organizing style. You know, we're on tour right now, right calling in from Vancouver

and you're over in Maine, vast continental wide tour. One of the primary functions of this tour is like the activation of affinity groups to sort of catalyze and come down to Atlanta so that crews can sort of have the confidence of flexibility, the warmth and the revelry that comes with moving through space with your homies, with your commons, while at the same time there's a very large cohort of various logistical teams trying to figure out various programming events,

the locations of these trainings, how to feed people, how to house people, how to keep people entertained, things like that. So it's I think the scope is larger, potentially hitting eighty cities if we can finalize a few final requests and the sort of the action itself, right, so, as Jamie was saying, is sort of confined to one day, right,

but it's a four day convergence. So the action itself is being our goal is to sort of carve out of space that day of on the morning of Monday, November thirteenth, which thousands of people can take embodied action together in the forest.

to employ nonviolence as a strategic action. Do you want to talk a little bit about kind of how that's being envisioned, because I know there's certainly, even in Atlanta, there's a lot of people who are either skeptical or confused or fear that there's like other safety issues with within action as public as this, right, because you're trying to get thousands of people to show up, So this is this very publicly announced thing, which also gives the

police a big heads up. So I know there's been a lot of you know, there's there's a lot of questions, and I feel like, you know, the this this aspect of non violence is a very interesting one because the Defend the Atlanta Forest movement has been I think very historically defined by you know, very spontaneous, fiery acts of sabotage. So I guess, yeah, just that's I want to kind of I'm interested in this kind of strategic non violence aspect.

the table. A lot of it has to do with wanting to create an easier on ramp for people and something that can be openly promoted because, you know, for better or for worse, the media has at times portrayed certain corners of the movement as these like scary eco terrorist and you know, when people are doing a higher risk action, it's inherently something that you can't really go around the country talking about and engaging groups of people that you don't know. So, you know, we wanted to

strike this balance, right and what are we doing? Well, yes, technically it's a crime. So was what Martin Luther King did in the nineteen sixties, And we wanted to draw on that legacy, right, because the civil rights movement has a deep, deep legacy in Atlanta itself. So like we've had rallies at the MLK Center and now so okay, we're doing a thing. Right, there's a thousand people. There,

there's children, there's clergy, it's in broad daylight. The state is sort of caught in a buyant now because Okay, it could arrest one thousand people in broad daylight and charge them with domestic terrorism. That would create a political crisis, and that would be an international outrage, and I think it would also be fairly unprecedented. It's possible that that would have although I don't think that's what's going to happen.

There was recently a similar kind of direct action on the construction site that the Faith Coalition against Cop City did. Actually five people chain themselves to the construction equipment and they were arrested. They're all out on misdemeanors now, which is what you usually get charged with for a protest of that nature. Right, So, yeah, the state could hypothetically

arrest a thousand people and charge them with terrorism. That would be an international outrage, that would be a political crisis.

On the other hand, the state could do and there are signs that has been pulling back, right because what I just said, if the state charges people with misdemeanors for doing the exact same thing that people were recently charged with terrorism or hit with RICO charges for doing that will also serve to further delegitimize these charges for the people already facing them.

is specifically the cop City construction site. It's certainly a concern a lot people have, especially when you know, we're talking about possibly police arresting hundreds of people trying to kettle them in the site. It's it's certainly a very very valid concern to have.

actually useful in any way? And I'm sure that is part of part of some people's thought process going into this is is you know, if there's a decent chance I am going to get arrested just for walking onto a site, is is it worth it? But sorry you were I realized I was interrupted you and went on a short, short rant.

months and months and months. There hasn't been an occupation of the forest since the cops killed tort in January of this year, except for a couple of days during the March Week of Action, But largely speaking, in the forests has been held by big scary men with big scary guns for many months now, and the horizons feel

incredibly obscured. You know. It's it's it's very unclear what the movement could do right now, that could that could jump start our energies, that could serve as a container for the thousands and thousands and thousands of disillusion and disenfranchised folks who have been working tirelessly at other methods of change as well. Right so, our sort of theory is the most powerful action that we can do is one that's sort of defined by our by our power in numbers, by our power in our unity, by our

power in sticking together in order. So for me, The interesting question isn't even necessarily what happens on November thirteenth of this year, the day of the action. For me, the interesting question is like, what new horizons does this

open up in the movement? How we can reactivate and recatalyze our energy and understand and prove to ourselves in a collective fashion that embodied action in the forest is indeed possible at a math level, and this actually sort of seeks to advance the energy and the movement to

a new height that hasn't actually occurred. What's going to happen is more people than ever will be in the forest together at the same time, and that right now is precisely what's needed in this moment, and the only way to do that as we're doing this publicly and above ground one to help aid in that sort of facilitation of just a numbers game, right, and then two is like, we want people to be able to make an informed and consensual decision on how they want to engage,

and the only way that they can do that is for them to actually know what the heck is going

to happen. Right, So we're going around and being incredibly clear about what the plan is and how the finalized version of the plan will be, as Jamie sort of opened with, discussed democratically and horizontally at these in person outdoor COVID Safe Spokes Council meetings on Saturday, November eleventh and Sunday, November twelfth down there in Atlanta, where all these affinity groups from around the country, around the state, and around the city of Atlanta will sort of elect

one of their home needs to go to this larger general assembly type thing that will then sort of democratically and horizontally determine what the actual specifics of Monday's plan will be. Are there any sort of community agreements that we want to that we want to uplift and highlights so that we can all sort of know and be on the same page and move in a similar way together.

And those could be I don't want to speak for what there because those will be determined in the Spokes Council, but the sort of like there's been questions, I guess lastly, there's been questions about well, what does that actually look like to maintain a level of non violence whatever that might actually mean in a space right, So, like I'm sure a lot of folks listening, and myself included, probably all of us here have witnessed you know, for lack

of a better word, peace policing or something to that effect. Right, Our wager with this, our goal with this, is the activation of affinity groups of crews that roll up together who enter into this sort of like consensual horizontal decision making space where community agreements are explicitly laid out in the days leading up to the action. Those specific affinity groups can hold each other accountable to those norms in whatever way that they want, Right, you and your homies

holding it down for one another. In like what we're calling for, right is non violence. Like that we can debate, we can have a heavy political debate about like the meaning of violence and the meaning of non violence. But like the language of non violence has a rich history in American social justice movements, right, Like that term has meaning to a lot of people. And that's actually what's

being advocated for on this day, but only on that day. Right, Like, So what we're talking about is like in this specific space that we're going to like create together, this is what we're doing, what we're calling for in this moment in time, in this specific geography. If people have other ways to engage in other spaces or at other times. One of the hallmarks of the movement is that by all means they should right. That's what's kept this movement strong and this is no different.

we need today. We've done a lot of work in the community getting community members to come out to this who maybe haven't been that involved in the past. A lot of older working class black people are going to be there. Please don't do anything that's going to attract extra attention from the cops. Don't do anything spicy, you know, don't break windows if they tell you to stay on

the sidewalk, stay on the sidewalk. Not that there's anything wrong with those tactics right in general, And he went out of his way to say, we do not denounce these tactics in general.

to this, to this upcoming kind of event. Yeah, I think it was on the Thursday of the fifth Week of Action, a few days after there was like the mass arrests at at the music festival, because I mean there they were in the in the in the lead up to that Community Movement Builders march, there were very similar questions around like, yeah, like who's going to enforce nonviolence, which really is kind of a silly question, and that there is you know, there is precedent absolutely of people

like peace policing and even turning over people to the cops. That that that that is a precedent, but in this case, like you know, these specific people and community movement builders have been pretty down with the more militant aspects of this movement for years, and you know, in the in the hours before that action, you know, people sought and gained more clarification on like no, like we're not gonna like fuck you over, but like, hey, we're trying to

like bring our grandmas and our kids to this. And not that the police need any excuse to you know, attack people, but this is you know, it's this is the thing that we're planning, this is what this is what we're trying to do. You don't have to come if you don't want to, you know, And it's it is that type of like mutual understanding and agreement that

actions like this kind of rest on. Because I certainly know that there's there's probably a good deal of forest defenders who you know, would like to jump at the opportunity to do you know, spicy stuff on the site, because that's that's a you know, from their perspective, that's a very uh, it's a very attractive proposal, which you know also as president, in these types of big mass mobilizations, there's there's certainly aspects of that that kind of intersect

with this especially. You know, one concern people may have is that this is being pushed as like, hey, we're you know, we're going to all these cities, We're trying to mobilize all these people, get a thousand people, we're all planning this thing together. There's a certain risk that that type of language could be turned against any of the possibly hundreds of people arrested on March thirteenth and rule these into and have that role in to the

reco charges that people are facing in Georgia. Now, I also kind of, from my understanding, part of this action is to kind of showcase the kind of absurdity of these reco charges by by demonstrating this is like very typical civil rights kind of you know, social movement organizing. But I think those two things I think can actually coexist where yes, this is very typical civil rights organizing.

And also the state specifically, you know, the state that you know in Atlanta have been have have not cared at all, is very is very willing to use these to use charges like this as a chilling tactic to suppress any future like protest or mobilization against cop City. So this is like, I think one other dynamic that people are certainly thinking about in terms of, you know, deciding if they want to participate in something like this.

up legal charges related to this movement. And and also there's you know, throughout the history of American social movements, there's there's there's president after president after precedent of people organizing their communities and their friends that they care about to travel to a place of you know, of injustice and stand in solidarity together. Right. This is like, this

isn't a classic organizing tactic. It's nothing particularly new. It's the first time that I've been involved in sort of this scale of organizing and this sort of specific flavor. I think with any action, right, just because we call it non violence doesn't mean that violence won't occur on the site. Specifically, maybe at the hands of the police or other law enforcement agencies. Right, just because we call

it non violence doesn't mean that there isn't risk involved. Right, with any action that we go to, there's risk involved. But you know, our understanding is that the risk of inaction far outweighs the risk of action in this moment.

would have won? Right, Like Standing Rock raised the bar for what it means to resist a pipeline en camp in an unseated indigenous territory in this country. It raised the bar for that right. So the next time that invariably rules around, hopefully we can begin from that ploy that point. But the pipeline is built right, oil is flowing through it, oil is leaking through it. It didn't win that element of the work, and that's why it's

important that we have victories. And that's why you know, there's so much, so many people pouring so much energy into the Defend the Atlanta Forest Stock cop City, No Hollywoodystopia campaign because we know it's winnable, but we need to ratchet up. And this is precisely the sort of level of accessible but also drastically heightened level of ratcheting up of our intensity of our collective power together that's possible in this moment.

lead to cop City being stopped. I think that's a really important aspect to kind of clarify, because you know, there is some detractors who are you know, framing this action as being like the only you know, path forward that organizers are wanting to do, and I don't know, this is this movement's been very very based on people taking their own spontaneous action, and they're being not just

one strategy, not just one plan. There's always a big, a big, you know, litany of things that could be going on, which all kind of starts to put pressure on this, on this house of cards, so to speak.

So this entire project is essentially a house of cards, and it doesn't really feel that way because it's being buttressed on all sides by corporations, by crony politicians, by big men with big guns, you know. But they're doing so precisely because it's fragile, precisely because it's a house of cards, and there's zero buy in from the community and from people and standing in solidarity around the world

for this project. What could be a fatal death blow to this movement is a mass quantitative uptick in the number of people taking action in the forest, and that would be a new and novel blow to this thing that it hasn't really seen.

city of five hundred thousand. I mean, I think they can clearly see who's really carrying on this this project of social justice and equality.

day they post some absolutely absurd thing. I guess because the last thing I think it's probably worth mentioning is that like a big part of this plan is trying to catalyze affinity groups to come to the city, you know, with you know, specifically with the idea of them participating in this in this action on thirteenth, but you know, nothing is stopping affinity groups from pursuing other forms of direct action during the for the four or so days

they might be in town. I think it's you know, a big, a large part of this movement's been very based on like self determination and radical autonomy, whether that's that includes your ability to participate in you know, big big collective mas, big collective mass actions, or just having fun with your friends around the city, like what happened near the end of the last week of action where eight motorcycles mysteriously vanished from the material plane.

There's also going to be a schedule for the weekends festivities that is coming up quite soon, which could include several cultural events, welcoming ceremonies to in person spokes, council meetings, general direct action, non violent direct action trainings, as well as other ways to spend time quality time together down in the forest leading up to the mass action on the morning of Monday, November thirteenth. If people have resources they would like to donate to the movement, whether that

be in the form of in person housing. Has helped with transportation, help with collective cooking processes, help with social media outreach, journalistic outreach, help with just thinking through this thing right and how we can make it as empowering and successful as possible and help sort of allow this to once again raise the bar for what it means to fight against deforestation, to fight against over policing in black and brown communities around the country, to fight against

economic injustice, and the attack on dignified forms of like cross social movements and regions. You can contact us via our contact form on the web page which you can find on Blockopsity dot org, slash contact and there's a contact form to fill out. There's also a Gmail block coopsityat gmail dot com. So if any of those things are if you want to figure out how to plug in, feel free to direct your correspondence to one of those channels.