Also media. Okay, hi everyone, and welcome to it could happen here today. We're very lucky to be joined by Vladimir von Bildenberg, who's an underground journalist who covers Syria, and Curtis Dan has written two books, including one on the alliance between the SDF and the Coalition. Is that is that a fair introduction in Vladimir, Yeah, okay, thank you,
thank you so much for joining us. There has obviously been a massive increase, in a massive change in the conflict in Syria in the last week or so, just under a week, and I think the information that's available to people is often very bad, very delayed, or one side or rather putting out propaganda things which mischaracterized the situation on the ground, especially with regard to the Syrian
National Army, who we're going to talk about. Would you mind giving us a sort of very brief explanation of what has happened since last Wednesday when HTS, who will have to explain later, launch their operation against Aleppo.
Well, in general, I mean the current situation Aleppo came to a surprise too many many people didn't expect it. So just after the ceasefire in Lebanon, the Hayata te Rocham, which is an offshoot of al Qaeda. So they said they don't have relations with al Qaida anymore. They split off from al Qaeda. They launched a big operation in Aleppo against the Serian government or the same regime, whatever you want to call it. I think initially they didn't think that they would go so far, all the way
into Alappo city. There have been agreements between Russia, Iran, and Turkey and Syria in Astana about the deconflection zone in the northwestern province of Italy. So the HTS insurgents, they claim they launched this operation towards Aleppo in response to violation of this Astana agreement. So according to that agreement, this area will be in control of the HDS and the other area will be control of the regime and they wouldn't bother each other. But this agreement was never
really implemented, I mean versus Russia. They were constantly bombing it. Sometimes the HTS would attack regime positions. Also according to this deconfliction zone, actually the Serian government and reining back armed groups they went actually in that the deconfliction zone
was supposed to be controlled by the Seerian insurgents. So they launched this operation in response to the they say the violations by the Serian government, and I think because when they realized that the defenses of the Serian government very weak, they pushed further into Aleppo and it was not really planned to take the city of Aleppo, although there's also a video of Jiulani, the leader of HDS, saying that my brothers, one day we're going to be
an Aleppo. So maybe it was planned. We don't know really for sure, but the fact is that the Syrian government defenses collapsed, and for some people in the reg that was sort of reminded of the days of Mussol when the Iraqi army they fled Mussol in twenty thirteen fourteen, and then Isis took over, although the ht has really denied that they are similar to ISIS, although they have a similar Islamish ideology. So they took the city of Aleppo in three days, and they have been trying to
go up towards Hama, a city more up. So far they haven't been able to take the city. And on the other hand, you also have another group called the Seran National Army, which is groups composed of basic groups that were supported by the Turkish government. They also started to move. They also started to carry out operations against Kurdish lad Forces also known as the Cerrian Democratic Forces.
Of the YPG.
And also they started to do operations against the Syrian government in above Albab and also in northern Aleppo. And they took also several towns in northern Aleppo. And also they.
Advanced and I think their main reach of that.
So while the HDS is primarily mostly fighting against the Syrian government, I think the Serian National Army, because it's back by Turkey, they also have an interest to undermine the Syrian Democratic Forces because Turkey in the past they have said they don't want to have a second Kurdish autonomous region in the region, because you have already won in Iraq, which was became recognized after the fall of the damp, So you have a Kurdistan region in Iraq,
and Turkey was sort of afraid to have a second Kurdistan region in Syria, especially because it's created by a group which has ideological.
Affiliation with the pik Ak with.
They followed the idology of the imprisoned leader of the pik A k Abdulachalan, which Turkey sees is.
A terrorist organization.
So it's very complex, which we always keep saying about Syria, but you basically have two different operations. You have the Turkish back groups that are trying to stop the Kurts from linking up with Aleppo, and then you have the HDS, the Islamist groups that are trying to go up and they already took Aleapo and they also took many areas in the countryside of Hama, and actually they now control
all of province. So in the past the certain government they control some parts of lip but now they control the it's as they control all of Yeah.
So I think if we start by looking, I think most people who listen to this will be familiar with the SDF, with the Autonomous Administration in North East Syria, and with the ri Java Revolution, and they'll be wondering. Kind of the question I get mostly is like how does this impact that? That's what people are asking. So
with that in mind, I think we should explain. Perhaps we've talked before in this show about Operation Piece Spring, Euphretty Shield and these Turkish incursions into previously SDF controlled areas and the genocide or violence that accompanied that, or ethnic cleansing, however you want to phrase it. Can you explain what's happened in the areas where they have advanced and like what that's meant for the Kurdish people who lived there or in some cases are still there.
Yeah, in the in the northern Aleppo and Aleppo City, so you have two Kurdish neighborhoods called Ashrafiya and Chech Maksut. There are around one hundred to two hundred thousand people living there. Then you have also two small Kurdish towns called Tel Aran and Tel Hassel, which have changed hands constantly during the Serian Civil War between the YPG, the Syrian government and Iran, then by the rebels done by ISIS than by al Kaida, like it was a big messah.
Then you have also you have like Kurts.
That were displaced from Afrine because Turkey they carried out an operation against the YPG in twenty eighteen. So you
have thousands of Kurts that left Afrine. So the statistics are a bit unclear, but at least there were around ten thousand IDPs living in camps in northern Aleppo, and you also have people living outside of the camp, so the statistics are always a bit unclear, but it's they now say that they were around ten thousand families that were displaced, so they were already displaced from Afrine before.
And there's this town of Tara Aphad, which has been a strategic location in Aleppo because it was sort of like opening up the way to Aleppo City and the Kurdish back forces they took actually this town with Russian support from the Turkish back rebels, so they had like grievances about this town, but Turkey even during the Afrine operation they didn't get the green light to take this
town from the Kurkish back groups. Also, the Syrian government was there by the way after dreamings, so this town always was like a focal point of contention between the Kurts and the Syrian insurgents. So what happened after HCS took Aleppo the Syrian National Army with the backing of Turkey, they moved on towards Teara Lapad. And also because in the past there was more balance in Aleppo because you have also two small towns called Mumble and Zahara.
They were like prominently.
Inhabited by people from the Shia religion, so there were Iranian back groups there and they were in the back of Telarafad, so they were sort of as a balance.
So they sort of like the curves, were.
Able to hold out in Tarapad despite like many offensive by the Turkish back groups. So what happened because of basically all the Syrian government, they were removed from Aleppo and as a result, like they were very weakend and
completely isolated. I mean until now there's Kurtish forces in Astrophia and Czech Masud, but they're completely surrounded and embargoed by the HTS, which is not something new because before this conflict, this new renewed conflict in Aleppo, the Syrian government was also imposing embargoes on those two neighborhoods, not allowing food and topping electricity and bothering people at checkpoints because they had like always issues with the Kurtish led
forces because they're sort of in the Syrian Civil War, they have always played sort of a third role, like they want to have their autonomy. Then you have the Shiran armed groups. They are trying to topple the Syrian government, and then you had the Syrian government trying to stop this from happening. And then yeah, the Kurtish led forces were trying to create the autonomous administration and they got some support from the US in the fight against ISIS
since the Battle of Kovaniyah. So yeah, this is like the situation a lepos. So now what happened is that thea fat were in twenty sixteen, the Parabs of Telfa, they fled actually this after as the FYPG took this down.
So now the Seen rebels they took this down, and.
This time that the people that fled from after into these towns that they were living around four or five six IDP camps there, they were forced to flee. So the Kurdish groups they were like trying to resist the SNA advances, but they were not able to resist them because they were completely surrounded because as I mentioned, Nobel and Zaka fell, so they were like completely pinched from all sides.
But before they had always like.
Nobble and Zaha behind them, so they could not not be completely surrounded. But this time they were completely surrounded. They were forced to leave there or not able to continue the fight. So I think there was like a de facto deal or something, because you saw like convoys with actually with fighters with weapons and armed hunvis. They were like being escorted two checkpoints and they were allowed to cross the ward. Sabka actually a town in northeast area.
And maybe most likely the US they were involved in the sort of de facto deal and Turkey, but so far the US they haven't comment on that, but most likely there was sort of a deal for the forces in Tarafa to leave with the civilians and they're now hosted in camps, in displacement camps in the town of Tabka. And then there are still Kurts living as I mentioned in Ashtraphia and Chef Masuda to big neighborhoods in Aleppo.
And then you have also two small Kurdish towns around thel Hassa which are now controlled by the year National Army the Turkish back groups, so the hyattas their local administration. They offered the deal to the Kurdish fighters. They said, you can leave these two curt neighborhoods and Aleppo without any issues, and the Curs that are living there, we respect them and they can stay there.
But the Kurdish fighters, they have to leave.
But then there was a statement i think yesterday by the leader of the SEF, the Muslim Ubdi. He was saying like we were forced to evacuate the people because we were trying to create a corridor between these Kurtish enclaves in Aleppo with the rest of North East area, because they are like Turkish backed rebels in the certain government in between trying to trying to make a corridor. So they said this corridor was actually was broken and they were forced to evacuate. But he said that the
Kurtish forces were still in Aleppo resisting. So it seems that the YPG didn't completely follow this offer of the HS. But of course we don't know if there was maybe a backdoor deal with the HTS to allow first people in northern Aleapo to leave and then maybe in a later phase that they will also leave Aleppo because they are there in a quite difficult situation.
Yeah, a very difficult situation.
But they're now accused by the rebels that there are position snipers in Aleppo, and then they are still a Leppo but they never left Czech Masud and Astrapia, and but I also talked to people. They're saying that civilians they were offered in Czech Masud and Astrapia to leave that area if they wanted to leave, so they were not forced to leave, that they had the option opportunity
to leave that area if they wanted. But then the buses didn't show up and they didn't leave, because I mean, they need only not only evacuated Kurdish civilians from northern Lepo, but I think they also evacuated the Shia population of Dubo Zakha. There were sometimes also that they were also evacuated to north east Ayria because they don't feel safe for their lives if those rebels take those areas.
Yeah, and they are still there.
They don't want to be captured by the rebels and used as hostages or so most likely they left with the Kurts to north east Syria and what will happen to them. They probably go to Iraq or to other areas in Syria.
Yeah, you meet like in Northeast Aria, you meet sometimes like either former ratime soldiers or people who have left regime areas and like they've made their lives there. So now we have this situation right where, yeah, we have these two little islands. We'll just call them YPG for the ease of to not introduce another acronym, right of like a Kurdish armed folks in Aleppo. To complicate this further, and people will probably have seen this, I want to
explain it. In the Rezor, we have a different situation, right, we have their the SDF attacking Iranian back relicious and the regime. Do you feel comfortable explaining what's going on in Darrisora where that's a different calculus.
Yeah.
So since former president or the incoming president Donald Trump when he pulled out troops from Syria in twenty nineteen when Turkey did an offensive against the Curbs and Talabas in the US, they left, but then there was so much criticism from both Democrats and Republicans that he was
forced to come back. So until now, there are still nine hundred Jewish troops in Detozor Province and in Husska Province, which is actually not a lot because if you look to for instance, South Korea, there are thousands of troops in South Korea and in other places, so it's not very a lot. But in the US discussions it's always discussed all we have troops in Syria, but actually compared to other countries is not a very big number.
Nine hundred people, no, not unto very small footprint.
So they have this small footprint in Detzor and Hassaka and they basically they worked with the Kurtish led forces since the Battle of Kobani to basically defeat the Isis Kelephate because it was a threat to European security and US security and they were trying to carry out attacks in Europe, and there were many attacks in Europe and when civilians were killed.
So yeah, Ani Isis fight.
This is one of the reasons actually why the Kurtish led forces they were forced to go to Detozor because it was their last bastion in twenty nineteen when they defeated the territorial Caliphate of Isis. So since there you have this the SEF there and they have their own administration in the Azora and they have like local forces and Arabs that joined them in the fight against sizes.
So what happened that in the last few years, in the last one or two years, there have been attempts by the Syrian government and Iranian back groups basically to recruit Arab tribes to fight against the SDF, So there have been several skirmishes and battles since that time. After also the SDF they arrested a commander of them that
they thought he was like going to portrade them. So since that time, there were like several skirmishes between these milasis that are calling themselves the tribal army or something in that regard. And then you have the SCF, so you had like fights between the Iranian back groups.
And the SDF.
And recently with all the changes in Syria, there were a number of villages around seven six villages that were actually Russian army.
Was based in those villages.
It was like the line sort of dividing the US back as theF forces and the Syrian government forces. And there's also a river, but those villages they were like in front of the river, so the river is sort of naturally dividing the areas between the SDF and and the Syrian government. But there were like still a number of villages that were not on that line, and actually
there were Russian troops based in that villages. Yeah, but with the whole crisis with Aleppo and the fight now between the HCS and the Syrian government in Hannah, the Russians they moved out from those villages, so those villages that actually are almost empty, there is nothing there.
So during this.
Situation they a s UF they just moved in those villages and there was actually not so much fighting, although on the social media I see that all there's fighting and this kind of stuff. So there was some over these like the last one or two years, they have been heavy fighting between the SDF and Reign Impact Groups, but in these villages not so much because it was just empty villages and they just took them over and there was no one there.
Yeah, okay, So that leaves us with like I guess an e s getting a little bit larger in the south and the smaller in the west.
Yeah, very much smaller in the west.
And it's even not clear if they can keep their presence in Aleppo because I mean, Chef Marsuten Aspia is now completely surrounded by the HDS, and it seems that the HDS they have been a little bit softer with the SDF and YPG than the SNA because the SNA, I mean, they have their issues because they're also backed
by the Turkish government and the Turkish government. They always said their policy is basically to stop the SDF from treating autonomous area, and they also said the SDF is linked to the PIKK, although the SDF they deny links to the PIKK, although they don't deny their idological affiliation.
With the prison pick A k here. Yeah.
So Turkey always said that they are feeling threatened, and they have always claimed that attacks were planned on Turkey from northeast Asyria, from Java on on on Turkey. Yeah, THEFF deny that. I think there was also there was not so a long time ago. There was also an attack in Ankara, and Turkey also claimed that it was a carry planned from British cities in Syria.
Yeah, so that's that's like the situation.
Yeah, they gives Yeah, they give us a pretty good summary of the situation.
I think.
So let's talk about HTS a bit, because I think you're going to see one of two things. Right when we talk about the SNA and HDS, A lot of outlets will just collapse them under the same descriptor they will just say Syrian rebels, and I think people will think of the original largely secular uprising in Syria in twenty eleven, and if they have not been paying attention, they'll realize that ISIS has been and gone. But they'll think, oh,
these must be the same guys. These are not the same guys, but some of them maybe the same guys who are originally part of Jiulani was originally sent there by a back daddy way back to be part of ISIS. But these are not the secular rebels who originally rose up in Syria. And so can you explain, like, HTS has this very interesting kind of legitimacy project right, like it's trying to build a pseudo state and present like
a kind of gentler Jihadism. I don't know how to say it, but can you explain a little bit of this transformation of HTS and what you make of it.
I mean, as you mentioned that Julani, the current leader of the HS, he was sent by at that time I think it was Al Kaida are the Islamic State of Iraq, and yeah, use area basically to establish like but at that time there was no ISIS yet I think so. So later basically he refused to budge allegiance and he basically did his own thing. He created Jabalta Nostra,
which was the affiliate of al KaiA. But then he decided to basically split from al Qaeda and he announced like the links to I think at that time that leader was Zawahiri, but I'm not sure. So he basically split from al Qaeda. And you still have a split off group from al Qaeda in Itlyp. It's called h Russell Din, which they actually they had issues with. They
had some problems with them. So HDS, although Isis territory was defeated twenty nineteen, the HTS or they basically with all the creates in Syria because I mean they have been fighting out for all the problems between the Serian government and different armed groups. They managed to sort of cementa crowd throw in the province of lip and they created their own little administration there. But despite that, they say that we don't have any links to al Qaeda.
I mean, they're still listed by for instance, the US as a terrorist organization.
Yeah, there's a ten million dollar bounty on Julani still, right, they just never took it away from Yeah.
So I mean it seems that the US doesn't believe this moderation idea that the HS tries to show them more moderately. But my idea of the HS, it's more like a sort of a lighter, softer version of ices. I mean, they're not like ices that they're gonna broadcast people being blown up or beheaded on the film screen. It's just that they do it in the back of the screen. I mean, there's people being executed according to the Islamic Shadia a lot.
There are people being imprisoned.
I mean you also had protests, actually it left against Jolani that they were actually opposed to the authoritarian rule. And I think then you have separate from the sort of the Islamic Islamics, which you can actually sort of compare to the Taliban. Yes, I think that's a good comparison, Yes,
to the Taliban. And also I think Taliban they have some relationhops actually the HS, and they also congratulated the HTS after they took control of Aleppo, so sort of it's like a Taliban rual, though of course Taliban is very different contacts related to Syria culture and Afghan culture, so it's different, of course, but are both yes, Islamist projects with a national project at the same time, so it's Islamist project for Syria and the Taliban have an
Islamist project for Afghanistan, although you also have Pakistani Taliban et cetera.
Yeah, so it's not.
Like a transnational jihad, but you can call it like a national jihad maybe.
Yeah.
I think that's the crucial difference, right at least for the US, like that makes them kind of more amenable than than ISIS or even Al kaider Is that.
Yeah, they have this nationally contained Jahadi vision.
So they don't do attacks in Europe or in the US.
But of course there are several groups in ITLAB that are sort of falling under the control of HDS that are possibly could do external attacks, et cetera. And apart from that, you have the Syrian National Army. So the Syrian National Army, it's like a mix of different groups. As you mentioned in the beginning of the series Civil War, you had the Phisian Army, but then the Freezeran Army.
They split in several groups. I mean some like linked to Muslim brotherhoods, some linked to Turkmen groups, other groups, secular groups, et cetera. So all these groups that were basically fighting in different provinces, they were all gathered because Turkey. They did several Turkish military did several operations in twenty sixteen in northern Syria with the main aim is to stop the YPG from linking up the Kurdish enclaves on the border with Turkey. So they did I think the
first one I was Euphrad Shield. Then they had I think Operation All of Brands in Afrin in twenty.
Eighteen, incredible names.
Then I think the last operation account recalled was in twenty nineteen when they took Telaviat and Serkania from the Kurtish Laud forces the YPGSDA. So they had these three operations. And these groups are sort of a mixed as I mentioned, a different groups with also different ideologies. Some are more Turkmen in nature, some of them are more Islamist in nature. Some of them are like sort of leftovers from secular
groups that USIFI. Some of them even they in the past they received support from the US from the CIA against the Seian regimes. So some of them they receive support. And this is like a sort of umbrella of self organizations. So HDS is one group and they control also other groups in but it's one group. But the SNA there are like a lot of different groups, and they also have been fighting each other several times in areas and Turkish control.
So this is very.
Different and there are more sectarian in nature, let's say more. I mean, they have also been less under control than the HTS in the way that there have been a lot of kidnappings for ransom, a lot of like sexual violence against woman and rape. This is all documented by self organizations, Juan organizations. They also have child soldiers, so they have different kinds of issues, and but they have been more accused of like more sort of gang style
of activity, and that's why. Also some of them they were sanctioned by the US and also some of them they have integrated like former IIS fighters in their ranks. And you also have like you have some groups that are frondos or the other are originally for instance from the area around Mato or Aza. Some of them they kid they were displaced from Gutta, so a lot of them there. Also they came because the Serian government they advanced with Russian support, and then these groups were brought
by buses to the areas under Turkish control. Yeah, so these areas became a sort of like maybe it's a bad word or sort of a dumping ground for all these Syrian rebel groups that were not completely defeated but displaced by Syrian government and offenses with the Russian support.
So I mean before they were an Aleppo and homes and Hamma and Damascats in all this group they were moved with buses through agreements between around Turkey, Russia and Syria to northern Syria to it and now these groups they are coming back because they were never completely defeated. I mean, they had their own administration. So the Serian National Army they fall under are the Turkish back the Cerian opposition I think they call it the Serian National
Coalition or in Arabic the ital AF. So they have their own interim government administration in THEIRS on the Turkish control, and then you have the Salvation government under the Ahso the are t two different administrations. And they also doesn't mean that they agree with so, so just calling them the rebels it's a little bit like, yeah, it doesn't
really doesn't fit to the reality. But of course you also have to deal with the fact that for media, if they want to explain complex situations to a general public, it's very difficult to just say, Okay, you have this acronym, and you have this acronym, and you have the White and the HS and the SNA, so people they.
Will lose their interest.
So that's why it always becomes sort of this black and white. So, oh, you have the Syrian insurgence and then you have the Serian government, and then it's already complex enough to also add Kurts to the mix.
So they also, of course often the Turkish government.
They got very angry that the media keeps calling the YPG the Curse, because oh, they don't represent the curse. But you can't say that with any group in Syria or anywhere in the world. I mean, I mean you have in Americans, you have different political parties. You have different parties in Syria, you have different parties in Turkey. So these groups don't represent all the Syrians, or all the Arabs, or all the Kurts or all the Allwais.
There are always different political factions and that's what it makes so complicated in Syria because a lot of these based groups got fragmented. But actually with versus the support of Turkey, they actually united on the one umbrella, which is called the Syrian National Army, and then of course even on the Syrian government side, there's many different groups. I mean you have you have Iranian back armed groups, you have groups from Lebanon that are helping the Hezbola
alban says Bola. Then you have Iraqi Iranian back groups that are supporting Syrian government. Then you have also Shias
that were recruited from Afghanistan. And then also in the Syrian government security structure, I mean, in the past there was no room for malicious but they have, for instance, the NDF, which is sort of like a Syrian government backed militia which even some times part with the Syrian government itself when they tried to become become more too much powerful, sort of like what you haven't Wagner in Russia that we try to challenge the Russian government and
then they got third bailed. So it's like even with a certain sort of the forces back in the Cerian army, it's not like so simple. It's also not you have just a Serian army that's it. You have also different kinds of militia, some supported by Iran, some supported by Russia, that are backing the Serian government.
Yeah, everyone wants. I think Ukraine has really reinforced this. They want war to be like colors on a map and a front line, and the front line moves and that's you know, and that's just not how like oftentimes there's little lines on a map will be in reality, it's people driving around and pick up trucks with dishcas in the back, wondering where the other guys are and what's going on. You know. It's not like Ukraine, where you have trenches and people firing each other from trench
lines to gradually move. And as much as it would be easy to have modelists, we just don't.
In Syria.
Yeah, I mean, sorry, it's different because if it's more there are more religious and ethnic groups done in Ukraine. I mean Ucrime is you have the the Ukrainians and the Russians, and I mean you also have people speaking Russian in other areas of Ukraine. But it's where it's
much more complex in in in Syria. Althoio obviously also have different groups fighting in Ukraine, but in Syria it's a bit more complex and it's difficult for the media to get a grip on that without like you know, like trying to also explain to a normal reader of what is going on in Syria.
But also in.
General you have all this international media that are cutting down costs and they're closing there for and bureaus. So also I mean the money for like extensive reporting in Syria is also getting less or in general in internationally speaking, yes, and then you have another problem is that you have
the problem of access in Syria. So if you are wanted to go to the same government area is very difficult because if you have reported in Syrian rebel areas, the same government is not going to give you a visa. You have to be like very pro Serian government if you go to the areas under rebel control to be honest, like, it's very difficult for any journalists to go to HDS areas or the Eran National Army area.
So even if a journalist wants.
To report positively about the rebels, it's very difficult. Then they have like a press adcutation in Turkey and they have to cross the boarders very complicated, so there's barely in very rare cases journalists going into northwest Aria and then with the Kurdish controlled areas, if you can call them like that, like Northeast area, it's a bit easier. I mean, there are people flying to Iraqi, Curtistan and then they can get like a permission from the Kurdish authorities.
They're in Iraqi, Curtistan and then they can cross the border.
So it's a bit easier.
But the number of journals going there is very limited, and most of the interests actually of the Western media was not so much about the cern conflict. It was more about this Western ISIS woman and ISIS fighters that were jailed or held in camps in Northeast area. So most of the focus of Western media was most of the time, okay, what's happening in the whole camp, because you have thousands of ISIS families there or in verses
in the prison. So, I mean, the American journals were interested in US DOAH fighters, and the Dutch were interested in Dutch ISIS families are fighters, and the same for many other countries.
Yeah, the British media is terrible for that. They'll go to Northeast Syria and then talk about Northeast Syria and this our whole just exists as kind of a bubble outside of context in that reporting.
Yeah, they just talk about Shamima Begoon and she became sort of a celebrity in the UK. Yeah, although I think even on that actress nowadays it's like very limited because a lot of these zero countries in the UK, they have their own domestic issues. So also in general, the interesting in Syria has gone down a lot, and I think also with this current conflict and Aleppo, it will get some intention in the media for a few days, but at some point it's.
Gonna go down again, yes, of course, and.
Maybe there will be conflicts and other parts of the world again, So I think at some point also this media attention, the media attention for Sir already was like very low unless it's gonna affect Europe in a large extent because it could also create new waves of refugees trying to go to Europe. Yeah, there's many people that were displaced.
Again.
It was a very nice post on X by one Journeys from I think a Saudi outlet, and he was saying it's very sad to see. He was basically saying like at any moment, our people can be displaced at any time, or can.
Be displaced again.
So that's like sort of the life of Syrians that live in these different like front lines, like anytime they can displace, like the people are Traffee, they were displaced in twenty eighteen and now twenty twenty four they were displaced again. And then you have people displaced by the Syrian government living in the houses of kurts in Afrine
and they're also victims of this conflict. So yeah, so it's a very complicated situation, people being displaced, moving in the houses of displaced, and the displace living in other people houses that are also displaced. So it's like a very cynical and sad situation.
Yeah, and a very very difficult one for civilians. And certainly, like with the changing government in the US, I mean, it seems unlikely that we will be reaching out to help those those displaced civilians in the in the near future. And certainly we've seen a lot of Kurdish people who have been displaced either by Turkish aggression or who there's a whole other situation with the Kurdish areas in Turkey at the moment and their elections and such which we
don't have time to go into. But many of them have come to the US and I've interviewed lots of them for this show, so we've I think people will be familiar with that, right, I mean, I think that's probably about all we have time for.
But I wanted to offer you a chance.
You have very good tweets, you have a very good understanding of the whole situation. You have your articles do an excellent job of making it understandable. So where can people find your writing and follow you?
Well?
I mean, I you can find my tweets on my personal Twitter page which is my name is blotting me for Blberg at x Vivan Wrockenberg. And also I write for different outlets and think tanks like First As, I write for Middle Least im from the Washington Institute. Also I've been writing some pieces for Carnegie. So yeah, I've mean if we're writing for several places on the current situation. Yeah, and sometimes Side to Interview, Side talked on BBC a
few times on the situation and Aduchavella. So you can find my work on my Twitter profile. Always post my articles there and yeah.
Yep, that's great.
Is there anything else you'd like to maybe suggest that people follow. I think it could be really easy to get a lot of propaganda when it comes to two, sirius, So I think you'd suggest that people kind of get their news from.
Well, I mean, I think in general x is still like a good platform. It has been from the beginning of the series Civil War, although of course you have different accounts with different views supporting different facts. So it's always good to verify any videos posted, although it's like more difficult to very five videos than the pictures. But it's always good to verify locations and the background of
people that are posting stuff. And then also I think it's very interesting and good to follow the maps of the Serian Civil War because you have several places where they published maps of the civil war, so it's easier to follow it on the map than buy tweets or
posts on eggs. But I think in general, I mean, I mean, there are still like many international media that are are trying to do reporting on Syria, but I think in general what I've seen it's becoming more limited, and it's mostly based on for instance, the Serum Observatory for Human Rights. Yes, so the same Observatory for Human Rights.
It's a good source. They have a page in English and Arabic, although sometimes they are the English pages are a bit difficult to follow for people if they don't know the background of the conflict because it's more written for locals.
Yeah.
And then also you have, for instance, there's there's a civil side organization that focus on human rights abuses.
I think it's called Seriance for Justice.
They are very good reports on the situation, but it's a bit slow because it's not like twenty four hours. I mean it's like they're doing investigative reports on abuses by all sides of the.
Ceriin civil conflict.
Yeah, so Joheral, I think it is very grud and also like telegram, I mean a lot of these different groups they have telegram channels where they post the latest updates, but of course all of them are quite biased, but bias you will get anyway in such a conflict as in over the war.
So yeah, everyone's biased to a degree. You will see dead people a lot if if you go following telegram channels to the Cerian Civil war. So if that's not something you'd like to see, that's probably not platform to be on Big Death.
Thank you so much for your time.
I know it's late with you, and we'll let you get to sleep, and we do appreciate you joining us, and hopefully people will follow you on Twitter and and get good information about what's happening.
You're welcome.
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