Also media.
Hello everyone, it's me today James, and I'm joined by Benevan from the YPJ Information Authors, and we're going to discuss today and chiefly that the Turkish bombing campaign against it which has been happening in the last few weeks and the last few months and the last few years. So we wanted to set that in context for you.
And everyone's attention has been very much focused on other conflicts, but that doesn't mean that this one isn't important, and it's one that obviously listeners will be familiar with, so we wanted to bring you an update on that. Welcome, very vun Hello, thank you, Yeah, you're welcome.
Okay, happy to be here today. Good.
Let's start by, I think, just in case people need a refresher or they haven't listened to some of the other stuff, talk about what's happening in and why they I guess why. It's why it's unique and what makes it special.
Okay, So, actually right now in Java, for more than ten years there's a revolution happening. I think most people heard that. For some twenty eleven and so on, there was like something called the Arab string. But actually in the same time in this region in northern east Syria actually also called like in the northern eastern part of Syria, there's a region called Java, which is like a big part of Kurtish population. There's also Christian population like Assyria,
and Arminian population and also Arab population. Like it's a very colorful region, you can say. So in this region twenty eleven, in this time and then twenty twelve, a revolution started, which is actually based on a long term struggle of the Kurdish movement and its experiences. And the revolution was like mostly based on the idea to gain
democratic autonomy and today gain like democratic self administration. Why because like the Syrian regime on the one hand was like very oppressive towards the Kurdish people and on the other hand, like it was like out topered Parian regime. So there was like this wish to create something different, which was actually created here in the region in Java. Yeah, so I think this we can say at first, like what happened was that relusion started and until today it's continuing.
Like it's a very like basic change of people's life. We can say that happened here like democratic administration in all areas of life, and also like, for example, a great deal of a women's organization to achieve also women's So the solutions like based on these principles of democratic self administration, of women's freedom, and also of ecologies.
Yeah, perhaps you can explain people who aren't familiar a little bit more about the women's revolution, because I think that is something that that's extremely unique and that people might not have like if they've heard of it, perhaps they haven't really you know, I think the mainstream press doesn't covered particularly well. So if you could explain, like maybe something about the co chair system or the relationship between yourselves and the yepigae and how that works.
Yeah. So actually I was just something like speaking about the like when the revolution was happening, so I from beginning online women also took place in it, like which was already occasion the code of freedom movement in general, is like that woman was like equally were equally taking part in it and also always founded their own organizations, like not like substitute to a general organization or something like this, but actually like their own organization that at
the same time cooperate with the general organization. So there was already this principle of women's autonomy. So this was also adopted in Rehervoir. So in all areas which also includes like political areas, areas of daily life, but also military fields, women organized. So actually in the beginning of the solution, they were like the society's kind of self defense forces building us and in the beginning there were already women in it. And then there was also the
foundation of hitep Gay like the people's Defense forces. But after this also the White Pgay women's Protection units were founded.
So actually it's like a fully autonomous women's units that take care of defending their homeland on the one hand, but on the other hand, also made like a great deal of change in the society in the daily life of women because in the region that was before like maybe to somebody like feudal or like because of the authoria tennestry in the state, like there was no protection for women's rights or something like this, and for example, there was like the traditions of marrying a woman at
a young age or something like this. This was actually changed by this woman's polution, Like the everyday life of women was a change and is still changing, like it's still a struggle because it meets changing the society in general. Yeah, so there's like in every area of life today there's like autonomous women's organization and the existing which makes its with the main the most like profound woman's solution that on to now is happening, I think. So it's like
really important like samplers for a woman. Everyone in the.
Work, Yeah, very much, and it is a genuinely profound change. Having spent a little bit of time there earlier this year, that it's very notable that you spent a lot of time in that part of the world, how different things are. And then perhaps we should talk about the battle against the so called Samic state or dasher Isis or whatever you want to call it. In the role that THEPGPJ and SDF played in that, I can explain a little
about about that fight and the fighting that happened. And also like the tremendous number of people who died fighting or were martyred in the language it is used by the revolution about them.
So like, uh, in general, I think everyone in the work for listen to the name of the White jas
Woman's Protection Units and the relationship to ISIS. But actually from the beginning on they fought like against this kind of let's say like different like fundamentalists or mercenary groups that were existing in the region, and when Isis was coming up, Like the biggest almost known battle that actually the world for the first time really saw was the Battle for Kobanis where for example, the hypj with like very very limited possibilities and the fought against the Isis
and actually succeeded like to defeat iss and to defend the city of Kobani, which was kind of like a breaking point where things started to turn around. Or we have also had the point where forks are the Shanngha was attacked, which is like in south post de Son, it's not like in the era region, it's not even
in the same region. But the YPA also played like the role in opening a corridor for the people who tried to flee for the Yuzd people who like are people who have faced like many genocides in history, and in order to save them from the genocide of Isis, the RPJA opened a corridor to help them to flee.
So and there are like many stories or like in the end, the liberation of the city of Racca, which was kind of known like as the center of the ISIS, which also we can say like the Women's Force played like a junior rein God this. So there are many examples where we can say, like how deciding for examples as of the Vibea was for the defeat of ISIS.
And I think on the other hand, we also have to say that it is not completely defeated, because it seemed like some support from outside structures, like from Turkey, so there are still some like sales or form. There are a lot of details detainees like before that was happening at a try to break out from the detention centers in twenty twenty two, So it's not like it's completely vanished from the earth, but the actual defeat was like reached by the JAP.
For Yeah, I think it's very important too. Like you spoke about those like incarcerated ice form RIIS fighters right and their attempt to break out. I think that's maybe a good chance for us to talk about like some other former risis fighters and like guarding in I think
it was called Turkey called Operation peace Spring. I think right, like the these these Turkish incursions into uh into into Rojaba, into like and and into like Syrian territory, can you explain a little bit about like how I guess this will get us to the modern day and and the bombing, but like perhaps you can explain how this started. Obviously Turkey has been opposed to the Kurdish freedom movement since its inception, right since the very beginning and in the
last century. But preps, you could explain like this series of ongoing Turkish aggressions against what's happening in Java now and like how that began and how that's manifested itself over the years.
Oh yes, like after ISOs was defeated to some degree, actually Turkey for self started occupation attacks like and twenty eighteen nineteen and started the occupation was first against Afrine and then against tel Khania and Guido Speir, which are all like very important regions of Bova that are like directly next to the Turkish border, like you see, like directly in between Syria and the Turkey like next to
the Turkish borders. So they directly attacked these cities next to the border, which actually most of our cities are directly next to the border, and they occupied them. Yeah, I think that's important to understand like a little bit because actually there are took plans to occupy, occupy like the region along the border, not only the cities that they occupied. Until now, this is a very very violent
war with using aircraft and so on. Like in the last years, uh Tooki very much invested in two drone technology and so on, and they used also chemical weapons like very famous in two nineteen the video of a young child the name Mohammad went around the world that like was like born by phosphorus in Secania in the occupation attack. So like actually it's a like a war that is smallest sleep fought also with the most like gutty yeah methods that took his waging around the region.
And after this, like we can't say like after Secane was occupied, Tooki actually continued to attack with a war that you cannot say like at this time it starts and in this time and it's more like continuous attacks.
So on the one hand, like some areas are always getting bombed in the last years, like for examples like artillery shelling and one like a share bar next to Arthleene or iron Eesa or the tam so like the areas that are close to the occupied areas were now Turkey and mercenary forces are stations that constantly attacked more or less the regions, but also with a drone war like the first I think, very like clear example of what was the strategy like in the last years was
on the twenty third June two down twenty when Turkey killed three women of conguers the women's movement, like the civil women's movement in Kobani in the village, which were all like two of them were like in the leadership of the women's movement and one was just like a man well, and they were sitting in the garden and they were talking and at this time like a Turk
a shtrongest strike and they all lost their lives. So like a lot of these kinds of attacks happened after this, like against like let's say, like civil leaders of society,
like politicians, normal people. Also like on the twenty fifth of December, actually also on Christmas in twenty twenty one, five five chill like young people like youth from the youth movement were killed in Kobani also like they're just when they were sitting in the garden like members of the Youth center, like I took a stone stock three of them like a young girls and this continued or also we can say like leaders of Fox suble Ypja.
Also like on the twenty second of July last year, there was a conference happening for celebrating ten years of women's revolution in Rojaha, and just on the same day, Turkey targeted the car of the Rye PJ members. One of them was Jian Toldan, who also spoke on the same day on the conference. Actually it's quite clear what Turki actually once they want to like destroy the revolution that's happening in Rushava, like the women's revolution and in general,
like this change that is happening. They want to create like the sphere to stay away to way to the Turkish occupation forces. And they're using a lot of violence. Like also in the occupied areas, like the people are right now, I think that I cannot speak their language. They have to fear. Sometimes they cannot close the house doors. Sometimes people get like abductor like without anyone knowing why or where's they go as I go to the persons that be in a prison or would I be fortshot
or like a very kind of oppressive region. Yeah, now in the occupied areas.
Yeah, and those are people who like I've met when when they come here, right, people who have lost Like I spoke to a guy, a mayor a couple of weeks ago. You know, his father had been killed, his uncle had been killed, and like he was like what should he should? I should I wait to be like the last person in my family and then who gets killed or like it's it's very the conditions for those people in the Turkish occupied parts of northern Kurdistan are very,
very difficult and oppressive. And I think, like, just to build off what you said, like, it's important that people realize that these killing of especially like people in the Women's Revolution, but also you know, people in in the Rajava revolution. More generally, it's not Drone strikes are extremely targeted, right, Like they can follow a car from an event and strike it. Like it's these kind of these things are not it's not like they're it's not like artillery or mortars.
It's not like you're just sending it into an area. Like they're extremely targeted to an individual or a group of individuals rather than you know, random attack. So like this is a distinct choice that's being made. Well, let's talk about the most recent bombings because I think there were some particularly egregious ones, even by the standard of this campaign, which has been pretty egradition in the beginning.
But December, around the week of Christmas this year, just to give people a time to the period, there was a bombings of a if I'm not wrong, a printing press, a dialysis facility, is that right?
Yeah? Yeah, we actually there was. There was also another like not hospital, like the hospital, let's say like a medical point. Also Corbani where doctors was out borders. I think it's like kind of a known and Jose they were also working there at the oxygen center also, so like medical places, there were like normal factories of of food production like you said the printing house. There were many places like this, like of daily infrastructure that were
targeted like before, already in October infrastructure was targeted. And also last year there was attack Disis and every time at least ten civilians got killed, like in all of
these attacks. So now I think the overall number just of these three ways of attacks is already like search one killed civilians, so like maybe dawn strike are very targeted, but it's not like Turki doesn't want to kill civilians or takes care not to kill civilians, like already in the attacks of last year, there was an examples of double tap attacks for example, which I actually be illegal.
So I think it's very important to say, like also the targeting of medical points of medical infrastructure, that what Turkey is doing is not according to international law, Like that's not the case, Like Turki is kind of acting like however advanced targeting civilians, creating like fear and also like in a region that is already poor, Johnny, you have to say, like the possibilities that have been created, like like for daily needs and so on, for supplies
of electricity of like heating fuels and so on for your house, they are very affected like this right now, so like in general, there's like a big shortcoming of everything right now and whatever, and just because of these attacks.
So this is actually affecting everyone. And on the other hand, took it to try to create like this feel like there's just some wave of attack and just targeting everywhere, so they want to displace actually the population and also to commit like the politics also to state, especially against Scwritish people and also against the Christians, is very much like potentially like genocidal politics, like it's not not like a limited attack or something like this, Like we don't think so.
Yeah, no, it's not a And like you said, they're very very much unafraid of killing civilians in the process. Like I spoke to a mother whose fifteen year old son was killed in a drone strike. I don't think it's very hard to make an argument the fifteen year old son was doing anything apart from being a fifteen year old kid. You know, it's not like this person is a legitimate military target. It was a kid who
played goalkeeper on his local football team. And these double tap attacks, Like if people aren't familiar with the double tap attack, it's when an attack happened, people go to the site of the attack to render aid, right an ambulance or baptis bystanders rendering aid or other military personnel rendering aid, and then a second attack happened at the same place to then attack the people who are rendering aid.
So you spoke a little bit about like how they're trying to attack the whole project and not just individuals. I wonder like the drone strikes do have like a they change the way they have to be done right, like it's it's things become unsafe, like any way you can see the sky, right, like having a large gathering, or certainly for people who are of more like higher status, it's it's dangerous for them to be out and about, right Is that fair to say?
Yeah? I mean on some level, for sure the dangerous. But on the other hand, you cannot always be afraid. Like that's like really the reality. Like for example, now, because these places were targeted, for example, the infrastructure that you need for your life, people actually started to stand like next to the electricity center to say, like, if we're all here, then they cannot target it. Wow, for sure is dangerous as you see, like the they can they.
Yeah, because they've killed a lot of civilians. As you say, that's a very brain yes, yeah, and again I think I think maybe we should explain actually so that it gets very cold in this part of the world in the winter, because perhaps people will associate this part of the world with like the heat and hot chambers. But like you, you have very cold winters, especially in the mountains.
Right, Yeah, I mean it's like all more or less flat, like it's not so cold, but still it gets like under zero degrees, like for sure, you needs the need like your house to be warm and so on, like just to take care of basic needs. You need your car to drive somewhere maybe sometimes at least like some people need it for their work or like this. There's a lot of basic needs that don't work if if all the infrastructure gets stored.
Yeah. Yeah, And I believe if I'm right in saying, this's the one person already passed away because it couldn't get directs the dialysis center that was bombed, Is that right.
Yes, So as I said that one passed away, afterwards they brought like a like emergency wise dialogs machine, yeah, which I think is very good for the sick people. But I'm not sure because also if you don't have like a substitute of something happens like only one machine, I'm not sure like how much it will actually take care of the needs of people. Because I said it was like seventy or eighty six people who were going to the center, so it's not.
You yeah, and like I didn't think, Yeah, I mean, it's certainly not as good as having a proper center, right, Like, and there's no reason there's no world in which a dialysis center is a legitimate target or printing press, right, Like I think that that maybe points to what you're saying, like if you're printing books about something, sharing knowledge about something, and like perhaps one thing I think you were saying, is it right that it to textbooks.
I think it was like also printing textbook, Okay, like it was printing everything, so it's also printing textbooks. Yes, like also was printing textbook.
Yeah, And we should point out that, like, you know, I speak to Kurdish people almost every day when I'm at the border, and they many of them don't read and write in Kurdish because in Turkey that's not taught in schools, right, they don't have a chance to learn, and and so like having those textbooks, having that knowledge, like lots of my lots of my friends were saying that, like the children because because folks who went to school before the revolution went to school in Arabic, So like
the children are the ones who have like the formal education in Kurdish, you know, and that they're building a generation that like speaks Kurdish and reads and writes Kurdish is their first language. And so like an attempt to destroy that isn't just destroying the factory, right is that fair to say that it's also destroying like that goal of the revolution are more broadly like that attempt to like to have that education in Kurdish and let children speak their own language in school.
Yes, I mean this is also part of like ustermination politics, who deny people their own language, which actually likes Asyrian regime. Also that like the only thought in Arabic and now for example, the system of the self administration lows everyone
to learn and different languages. Likeno, there's Arabic, there's Kurdish, and even in the very last times are hearts that there will also be opened Ausyrian again, which is actually really important because it's like a language that is like very like most Assyrian people right now speaker and write Arabic, though it could be really important.
Also yeah, yeah, and it's it's I think it's really important to point out for people who aren't aware. And often in the US media, like Rochio is reported as like Kurdish, like a Kurdish area, but it may have a majority of court in some cities. But like, yeah, there are Assyrian people, there are Arab people that are Armenian people, and like they have that same autonomy right to educate in their own language and to like organizing their own communities.
Yes, that's what the idea is all about. And I think actually like resources in the last time, that was kind of trying to create this image of like Perds against Arabs, like from the outside in the international media, which is absolutely not true. Like the SDS itself is
like majorly Arabic force. It's not majorly Purish, like if you see numbers I think at least, so it's like very equal, like everyone who plays a role in US and who wants to participate can participate, and everyone has a like autonomy also to organize inside of their own society or may it be religion or and which like also Yazdi people like Kurdish people who are Yazdi religion, they also have their own organization here in Yeah, well that's very important, and.
Their own movement in their own area right the year Bisho in that in that part of Iraq. Like that's like I guess an allied movement, would that'd be fair to say?
Yeah, I mean very much like follows the same idea and the same concept as.
Yes, and yeah, I've also spoken to az people who have come to the United States recently and like, yeah, they under the under they had absolutely like inhumane and terrible conditions, and if it wasn't for the gay then they like they wouldn't be there. The the you know, the they the beginning of the their liberation I guess came from the gay and something we'll maybe talk about
another time. It's a long story. I wonder, Yeah, like, obviously this isn't something that has been in the news as much because people have been so focused on Palestine. I wonder if it's worth discussing, like the Turkish States completely like like two phased approach, right, like on one hand they're saying.
We have to.
Like, yeah, it's unacceptable for the bombing of civilians in Palestine and like this is completely wrong, and then on the other hand that they're doing the same thing right like just on their other border.
Yeah, so I'm thinking we have to anyway, says like Turky is not doing anything good for the Palestinian people, Tuki is leading Hamas to such an attack, like supporting Hamas and just like very violent attacks that I made, which then was like the preset for the war of Israel and international forces against the Palestinian people. So actually who is like suffering from all of this, it's like the normal people, like which is for Israel and Palestine.
So actually we have to say, like what Chuki is doing is against the people, like it's also against the Palestinian people. And here like they have criticized to clearly, for example, Israel is saying like saying Isa is making occupation politics and so on. Still Zuki also has ties with Israel. We also have to say, but like they are themselves occupying parts of Java in the shadow of these attacks that like all the attention of the world
was going uh into this region. They attacked like also calculating that maybe people will not so much look to right now, like at the same time, there's like another huge war going on in the Middle East, and they are making like very clearly like politics of occupation in Aftene and Silkanya and also democratic demographic change. So they are like displacing people and placing other people.
Yeah, that's very Yeah, well displacing whom and and placing whom, because I think that's important when we talk about like that that population and demographic change, like because there's it's not they're not just displacing people randomly and replacing them randomly.
Right, Yeah, so actually the people that are targeted the most are like the Kurdish people in the areas or other people that are like not aligned to the state, and then who they place like mostly was like you see that all the mercenary forces that are actually aligned to Turkey or like outside forces already, like they're like they are not isis, but they are a little bit similar to it. They are like mercenary groups that are
like more or less like what road they go. It's they're clarified from outside the forces, so they are aligned to Turkey and from these people for example, they're families who are placed in the region on the one hand. On the other hand, they were even examples were Turkey started to place some Palestinian people also in this region or like different like they just do they think they can align to Turkey as a state and doing under
their control. They were placing in these areas that say it like this, like to be able to actually what is the part of Bolvar a part of Syria, to occupy it long term, like to make this last. It's not like a short term plant, like they want to stay in this area, that it's not prevented if it's not liberated again.
Yeah yeah, And I think like again, like people that I think have become more aware in recent months, people are becoming educated on a situation in Palestine settlements. And it's not the fault of the people are Palestine that they're being like forced to be driven off their ancestral homelands.
But like what it does mean is that like they could be mobilized by someone like Turkey right to just do an occupation to to do it, I guess demographic transfer somewhere else, and like that's not a that's not like a desirable outcome. We spoke a little bit about like this like ongoing hostility here and it can seem for people out look, I think people only hear about in negative and not negative terms is the wrong thing. But like they only it only ever enters the American
press these days. When something happens right, either an isis attack something one of the cat like a Hall or a ROJR. But like, also things are continuing to progress, right, It's not just a place that is in battled and fighting to survive. Like I know, recently a new social contract was passed for instance, So maybe you could explain a little bit about the progress is still being made despite this this ongoing like air war during war and land war.
Yeah, so actually I think we always follow this philosophy that we are not like sitting here and saying our war will come towards us or like it will not be like we are very much helpful and we're always working to develop. Like even if these things are happening, if these attacks are happening, the solution very very much developed and the society changed a lot already, a lot of institutions have been built up that before we're not
existing and so on. And as an outcome also of this, the new social contract was formed, which actually is like
a very democratic process. Like let's say if the state force, for example, has the constitution, the state less the self administration has a social contract which actually is made by the people because until it was made, there was the years of discussion, like there were so many meetings, like all of the political representatives from the smallest to the biggest level, they were all part of the discussion, and also the people themselves they could take part in the discussion.
So now this is for example, ensuring a lot of important decisions and now, like the struggle that is before us, like that we are facing now is to implement social contract, which is very important. It's also guaranteeing a lot of pogus for women, it's guaranteeing a lot of focus for society.
So I think still now like it's a task to like see how how it can be implemented in all areas because it's always like a very lively process, like it always needs the daily struggle, the daily work creating like everything from new So there's a lot going on. Actually here we can say.
Yeah, definitely and like it definitely, like it doesn't I think it's easy, Like again, if we only report on this thing when bad things are happening, like to think that it's only better. And there's a lot like people are still hopeful, I think, and hopeful for creating and spreading like this better future for themselves and the children and for the region, which I think is it's really admirable.
One thing I thought was really amiable is people will probably have seen it, but like if they don't like follow social media so much. The exchange of statements of solidarity between the K and d F, the Cronian National Defense Force Battalion five specifically in Myanmar and the YPG and YPG in and they've gone back and forth, right, But can you explain a little bit about Obviously I know that the situation in Mema is very complicated. I know I've spent years of my life learning about it.
But can you explain like the importance of that solidarity and like also perhaps like it's not it was a risk right for everyone to gather like this in in the middle of the drone war to make the statement, but can you explain like why that solidarity with something they felt was so important.
Yeah, I think in Jel it's very important to say, like the revolution, it's not like avolution for the people of visual itself. It has like a perspective more general, like to strengthen the friendship of democratic movements anywhere in the world. So for sure, there's a lot of colors of movements, a lot of different situations in the world.
And some might also like let's say, see the solidarity very strong because actually they are also like Miama, like also facing for example, state system which is very much influenced by fascism. Like for some we are facing the Turkey or like in general, this kind of oppression and
trying to liberate from it. So actually we're always trying to have like this exchange in general in the world and to have like also to build like how let's say, like quality, quality relationships, quality friendships with all kinds of demo quatic movement. For sure, every everyone is acting on a different level and so on. But this is like a big something really really important for us in general.
And I mean, like in the revolution, there were also always people from the outside, for example, participating in it, so there was always kind of the spirit that this is sex the revolution for the word, like the Kurdish movement in general has sex's character, like an internationalist character, so it's not something like, uh, let's say, like far from from us, like it's already something like very close to us to say, like we stand in solidarity also with other liberation movements.
Yeah, I think it was very it was. I know it's very much appreciated in them, because lots lots of people from there have reached out to tell me how how much they appreciated it. And like I think some of them have been in the revolution for seventy years and their world has not paid attention to them, so
they really appreciated that. And that's that solidarity. And like I know that the solidarity runs a lot deeper than statements, but like we will cover that they extended that solidarity in another episode, because again I think it it merits.
It's a in recording. I wonder a better van what Obviously people will be listening, right, and I think a lot of people will be very supportive of the revolution in Reja, and they want to help it and see it succeed, and certainly not to see No one wants to see civilians dying in drone strikes, right, no one wants to see anyone drying in drone strikes. But how can they if they are in the US or in Europe or elsewhere in the world but not in how
can they help? How can they support the revolution through its like difficult, through these difficult moments when people don't have electricity to hit their homes in the winter and things.
Yeah, I think there's a lot of possibilities like sits coming here, which also is the point. But I mean in general, like you have all of this these possibilities, like from educating yourself, what is the distribution actually about understanding it from spreading its ideas, which is maybe the most important task. May it be like spreading knowledge about the spreading knowledge also about the attacks that are happening, clarifying what is happening and why it's happening. To read
about political backgrounds or sort of international politics. That's very important for the senus. And also you can always like share for example, let's say you have social media, let's tell you're part of the political movement or something. You can discuss about it. You can inform yourself about it. You can make a presentation about it in your university. Like there are so many things that you can do, Like you can read the book about it and make
the book presentation. Like there's a million things a person can do. Well as you're doing, you can connect to the Kurdish refugees or to the society Kurdish people in the diaspora in general, like outside of Curtis, somewherever you might be. Yeah, that's possibility. Also, like you can organize solidarity, also practical solidarity. Also, like let's say, like intellection works, like write a text there, discuss about it. Like maybe it's difficult in the beginning to understand some things or
to gain information. But right now there's actually a lot of information also available in English language.
I think, Yeah, you can read for about a year and non stuff I think, and still not not have read all of it. But are there books You've recommended a couple of books to me which I think have been really good, and I've shared with my friends and Meanmma and I know that they've enjoyed. Are there any books that you'd recommend to listeners.
I mean and Jina, Like this revolution is based on the thoughts of abdul so I think a good idea if you actually want to understand, like the ideological basis of it about women's liberations, about how democratic society can be organized. So actually there's like this book called of him Sociology of Freedom. I think it's very important, and
so that's a bit like understandable. I think for someone who comes maybe from academic or from a lessis or from a democratic background, I think they will read it, they will be able to understand it. But there are also many other books that are translated to English or like texts that are available, or in general there are books about the revolution from people for example, coming from the outside. I have to think right now in English. I'm sorry. I know there are some also some in
the different languages about the Woman's revolution. Mm hmmm, so I have to think with a yable. I think that's also like there's one called like the Politics of Freedom or something. And there are some books that were published because they were like the diplomatic conferences in most of them, I think happening in Europe, which they were like some like collections of philosophical discussion, uh like published, So I think that's also very available. But I'm sorry I have exact tight.
Yeah, I know, there's a good book called Revolution in Rouchev which was translated from German that like, I think it lays out like that how things happen. It's a little bit a little bit dated now. I think it was published in like twenty sixteen, so you know, things have changed a few years. But I think that's a decent book for people who are interested as well, that
I know a lot of people have recommended. Yeah, And then I wonder, like, because this isn't being like I know, you made the point earlier about that the world was looking at Palestine when the taxi Palestine happened. I was in Camischlow in Roosevelt, and like, it's impossible for me to sell stories. It's impossible for me to sell anything to like big news outlets so that they simply like, don't think American people can care about two parts to
the world at once. I guess I wonder where people can follow and get updates, Like it's a good social media or news outlets that you woulduggest for people who do want to keep in touch with what's happening.
Yeah, I mean we have like a Facebook place as Wipe Day information on Documentation Office like YPJ information. But also there's like other places like the Information Center, which is very much like like independently accriminating like knowledge and sharing in a way that I think is understandable for everyone. Like there's also from the SDI forces a press center which just has like also an English homepage is sharing
like sometimes statements and concrete information. There's an Internationalist Commune of sharing an English language, a lot of information on Twitter and on the homepage. So there's actually a lot of sources if you go and look forward, that are very good. I think.
Also yes, and like underground people who can show you what's happening, And yeah, I think I think that's wonderful that anything else you'd like us to get to before we finish up, anything else you want people to know.
No, I think it's very important to say again that it's like very very valuable for the revolutional for people to take part in actions to makes a voice, hard to organize, to make the solution known, to get it to know for themselves, and that it does actually make a very very huge difference like the struggle that people everyone in the world are making for the solution and
that it needs it. That like it's very like critical for those of a revolution that everyone's world it gets known and gets like solidarity that received this are very meaningful. I think that's very important to understand. Besides this, I don't know, I hope, yes, that's I think.
Yeah, I think it's really good to realize that it's it's not a it's you know, it's a very worthwhile thing to do just to increase people's awareness and solidarity. And thank you so much your time. I know Internet it's not the easiest thing to come by where you are, so thank you so much better Van for taking the time to talk to us today.
Thank you also for talking about the topic. I was very happy to join.
Its great Thanks so much.
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