Also media welcome. It could happen here a podcast beset by horrors of such magnitude that sometimes you have to go back to a thing that you just talked about because there were more horrors in it that you didn't have time to cover the first time you went to the horror. Sorry, the first two times you went through the horrors and with me to talk about the horrors. Is doctor kave Hoda, who is a doctor? I guess, as you probably could have guessed from the title. You know,
I scripted this out very poorly. Uh, this is great, You're doing great, Keep going, I say, scripted this out.
Literally.
The only part of this introduction that was in my notes was cave Hoda, doctor and host of House of Pod and friend of the show, which was not in my notes either.
But that's right, friend. The energy is chaotic today. Friend, most importantly, yeah, it has to be. That is the normal response to what is happening in this world. If we don't embrace a little chaos, and we will lose our minds.
So I am. I am loving how this is going so far.
I am so glad because there is so much chaos. One of the chaos things that we have been tracking, and that you spend a hideous amount of time tracking too much on your share too much. Yes, it's not good, it's very bad. Please stop doing this stuff so we can all go back to doing normal things in our lives.
I would love to just do more fart jokes and episodes on poop, but people in power keep saying and doing terrible things. You have crazy, terrible things that make me feel like I'm losing my mind. So I have to keep doing this from ultards one because someone's got to talk about it. Two, it's sort of therapy for me, Like if I just internalize this, I'm gonna I'm gonna be a miserable person. So thanks, thanks for having me on.
Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you about well.
Okay, see this Literally every single time I do an episode, it's like, I'm really excited to talk to you. And also, Jesus Christ, I wish we did not to talk about this. That's how everyone feels. That's that's when they see me. Yeah, it's terrible, God, really, truly, we got to stop meeting like this.
One day. We'll do a find episode one day and.
I swear to God.
Okay, but the thing that I've been talking about, that we've both been covering is basically the annihilation of the entire US medical establishment at the federal level is being systematically dismantled. And one of the ways that's being sematically dismantled is that a bunch of people have been put in charge of it who are I mean, two years ago, were fringe anti vaccine cranks and are now running like the most sophisticated like public health institutions that have ever existed.
Yeah.
As a producer extraordinaire, so lichtrom In once said, you can't put a hater in charge of the thing that they hate the most, and that is what has happened, completely and fully, almost at every step of this government, they find the person that hates it the most and they put that person in.
Yeah.
And you know, one of the big sort of I don't know if turning points is the right word, but one of the major events we've been covering from this was the announcement by Rfkgnior and Trump that they had found what causes autism and also ADHD too, which I got very little coverage. I think I said this last
time I talked about this. It was very baffling. But there's just there was so much in that whole thing that I think a lot of the stuff kind of fell through the cracks inside of like, well, there was a lot, there was a lot to digest the so much.
There's so much, and so I guess I want to we wanted to talk about mostly the hepatitis B thing, but also just sort of the broader anti VAXX stuff that was in this before we get into I don't know, like the weirder, more boutique anti vax stuff, which is like the anti hepatitis B vagcazine stuff, a thing that I didn't realize people were against children getting until like now, and like I follow these things decently closely.
Yeah, let's start a little bit with.
Like, let's let's ease the audience into this by going back to the classics, the greatest hits. We didn't really have one hit, the one hit of the anti vaccine movement, which was Trump's stuff about separating the MMR vaccine.
Yeah.
So yeah, recently during that press conference where he really threw tail and all under the bus. He also really it was weird because there's no new evidence. I want to make that clear. There was no new evidence that they presented about vaccine. But Trump actually really harped on vaccines and his thoughts, his medical opinion, and his advice on how.
To manage vaccines. It's truly bizarre.
Never seen a president say or do those sorts of things. But one of the things he mentioned was the MMR vaccine, the measles, mumps, rubella, and he said that it should be split into three separate shots, again medically unfounded. It really, as you have alluded to, echoes these long debunked claims, these Wakefield like claims, starting from back in nineteen ninety eight. Again, Wakefield was the disgraced author of that vaccine study that tied it to autism, lost his medical license for that.
But that has persisted and carried on, and the seeds of that are still growing terrible, terrible plants in trees today, and one of them was this fruit of Trump saying we should break up the MMR vaccine. So to say it up front, one, there's no reason to do that. There's no reason that shows improved safety. There's no credible evidence to suggest that at least, and more importantly, the more you split these things up, the more likely you're gonna end up missing doses. That is like a known fact.
If you delay vaccines, if you split them up more than they need to be, there is a much greater chance you will miss that. In case this is not clear, measles is bad. It is one of the most contagious viruses out there, and lower vaccination rates quickly lead to outbreaks, as we're already starting to see, and when there's already some hesitancy in the community, pushing it like this is
a terrible thing. So even though that was a throwaway statement from the President of the United States, it could have serious repercussions.
And it's very concerning.
And I've also I have committed myself every single time this comes up that the Wakefield study, which is where this whole separate data war thing like came up a it's not even a conclusion that even even if you take his completely fake premise that he made up, yeah, it doesn't actually follow that you should split the vaccines up, right, It's baffling. But the second thing is the reason he wanted to split the vaccines up was that he was
trying to sell his own vaccines. Correct, He was just trying to sell his own vaccin I it makes me insane every single time this has talked about, because this whole thing is sabetically.
It's literally an industrial complex. It's like the end vaccine industrial complex. They're all trying to sell you something. That's the whole thing.
I was watching Trump give this talk this press conference, and I said, I think I said this on another show here on this channel. I started to disassociate. I'm like, yeah, this can't be real life. I am I dreaming is this? It felt like I was having an out of body experience. It did not feel real to me.
To be fully transparent, I did not make it through that press conference.
Watching it on video.
About like four minutes in, I was like, fuck this, I'm going to read the transcript. So I'm just working off the transcript because I was like, I can't.
It was tough. I can't do this.
So on my podcast, The House of Pod you should all listen to it, I played a clip from Trump talking about tail and all and another clip of him talking about heptis B and when you listen to it. When I listened back to it as I was editing it, it sounded like I edited his clips to make him sound crazy.
I did not.
I just took straight from what he says, and it just the way he was talking, it's hard to listen to. I mean, it's hard to read too, but the way he talks, it's so disjointed and he just goes from one thought to the next. Hey, does this weave thing that he thinks is so clever, But it's just lost. The threads are never brought back together. It's just an unraveled, terrible rug of lies. And that is that is why it's so hard to listen to him. I totally understand.
Yeah, well, and this has also been you know, one of the things that most of the media has done is that you know, in order to be able to like play a listenable clip on air, right, and also in sort of innservative power, they edit the clips to make him sound like a normal human being. Right, So the version of it that people are seeing is not the version where he's just sort of completely ranting incoherently
and like, you know, you just see these clips. But then also because they're because they're they're editing it down progressively more and more like.
Just more.
Stuff more, just like information content gets lost every time, which is the problem because there's just like so much.
The fire hose in this of nonsense. Yeah, title my first albums incredible, incredible.
Oh god, Okay, so you know what, we're going to a second fire hose of nonsense.
This is slightly really to be doing this, but fuck.
It, it's chaos week. We're doing it. Do you know what else is a fire hose of nonsense? Oh well, I wouldn't say it's nonsense. I would say it's very important. And they's so it's very very important. I believe in.
I don't end up just kidding. I'm assuming ads and services. Yeah, this is the practice.
Services that support this podcast.
We are back.
So it makes the torrent of you know, the MMR stuff, which also I do want to say, very briefly, is sort of a baffling thing to be talking about in a thing where you're.
Not blaming the vaccines for autism.
You're blaming tail at all, but then you're still also mad at the vaccine. It's very weird. Yeah, I have thoughts about that.
You know.
I felt like what Trump was doing with that by bringing up the vaccine stuff was I felt he was trying to console RFK Junior in a way. I felt like he was like, Okay, hey, we're moving away from the vaccine stuff to focus on this tile law stuff. But I know how much you love the vaccine stuff, AREFK, So let's.
Talk about that.
So I felt like he was just throwing that out there to play k RFK Junior.
That was my guess. But I don't know how.
To read sociopaths very well, so.
This could also just be like what comes into his mind when he thinks about medicine.
Right, so you know, oh yeah, again, weird to me that this president was giving medical advice. I mean, he was making statements, do not take timely said that multiple times he talked about breaking up the hepatitis B vaccine, changing the heptides B vaccine, that the times of it, which I think we're going to talk about because that is very important to me, and things that doctors would have a little pause to say so strongly, and even the people whose paper he's citing would say, oh, slow
down a little bit with that. You know, it's very important. I think it's super impactful, and you're right, it's slipping under the radar. So I would love to talk about the hepatitis B stuff. Yeah, let's do this, so I'll give a little background for your listeners who don't know me. I am a gastroentrologist and hepatologist that's liver, not herpetologists, which is study of snakes, which sometimes people think online. I am a doctor that looks at the liver, and
hepatitis B has an important place in my heart. It's a disease that can be incredibly devastating. It's incredibly common, it has so many complications, It has such long term ramifications on someone's life if they have it, so many things they have to consider, do follow up, so many possible things that can happen with it. And the thing about it is, we have a vaccine for it that is very safe and super efficacious and works really well,
and when we use it, it works amazing. In Trump during this conference, through that a couple of passing shots as he was doing this whole rant about tile mall etc. And those passing sts can have a huge impact on uptake in this country. I think it really needs to be discussed. So I'll stop there. I'll let you see what questions you have for me hepatites because I could talk about hepatitiz B for a long time.
Yeah, okay, let's let's let's go back to like the very basic. How would you explain hepatitis B to our dear listener who knows many things, but what hepatitis B is is not one of them.
Yes, So, hepatitis just means inflammation of the liver. Anything with itis means inflammation. And there are different ways of getting hepatitis or inflammation of the liver. They range from alcohol, medications, autoimmune problems to viral things. And there are viral things that can cause bad hepatitis affect the liver, primarily hepatitis A, B, C. You've heard of some of these hepatides, and hepatitis B
is a very common one in the world. It's about two billion people in the world have either had it or presently have it. About eight hundred and eighty thousand people in the US alone have chronic hepatitis B, but if you actually look at studies that include more immigrant populations, that number can go up to about two point two million. It is something that can when you get it at an early age, when you're young and you're a baby or an infant, you're young and your immune system is
not super robust yet. It's very likely, about ninety percent or more that if you are exposed to it, you'll get chronic infection from it. If you get it when you're older, it's a little different. You can have a pretty strong reaction to it. You'll get really sick, potentially sometimes to the point where the liver fails, but most people are when they're older able to clear it. They're going to eventually get rid of the virus to point where the liver is fine and it manages, but it
lives in the liver indefinitely. Once you get the hepatitis B, there's a very good chance you will have it forever. Whether or not it's causing you problems is another thing. A lot of people can live with it not have any problems, but a lot of people will get it and they will be very sick in the beginning. And when you get it as an infant, you have a very good chance of having it for the rest of
your life. And that can be a major problem because like all viruses that go into the liver like this, all these viral hepatides, what can happen is it can cause scarring, which you might have heard of when it's really bad, called cirrhosis. When that happens, the liver can stop working. You can get cancer of the liver. You can get big blood vessels in your esophagus called esophageal varses, and vomited blood. You can get a lot of bad
things that happen. Now, what makes heptizes be particularly insidious, It makes it a little bit even my opinion, more dangerous than a lot of other viral hepatides is that you don't always have to go through these phases to get to the really bad part. Like when you have hepatitis C, for example, you get bad scarring over a long time that can cause that cirrhosis, and that cirrhosis
can lead to cancer. But since hepatitis B is a DNA virus, that DNA can get into the DNA of your liver cells and it can cause cancer without even having to go through those steps of cirrhosis. That's obviously terrible, and that can happen to young people, and I've seen it and it's awful. So I'm saying all these terrible things about hepatitis B because it's one of these things that does not need to be I didn't mean to
say that like that. No, I didn't mean to make a play on words there, but it doesn't need to happen because we have this great vaccine that can manage this,
and when we use this vaccine, it works. In fact, in the US, they looked at it between nineteen ninety it was introduced in this country like for infants in nineteen ninety one, and when they looked from nineteen ninety to two thousand and four, they saw a ninety four percent decrease in kids and adolescents who have hepatitis being incredible, that's amazing, that's really good. Like this is a great
success story. And part of the reason people like Trump don't recognize that this is an issues because it's done well, because this vaccine works and it does a good job. Now, the other thing to discuss is how it is transmitted, because that's a big part of what Trump was saying during this press conference. Yeah, and he said it's sexually transmitted, which is true. That is one of the ways that you get it, but you also get it from the mother.
The mother when you're having a pregnancy and a delivery, it's a messy, bloody process and that is a huge risk factor for the infant getting hepatized B from the mother. There's also household things that can happen. You know, people share razors, that's a risk factor, toothbrushes, small things, bites at daycare centers. All these things are small risks. They're not as common as sex or the childbirth ways of transmission, but there are other modes of transmission for getting hepatitis B,
not just sex like Trump was saying. So I think that's super important to be clear that. I think that is one of the major things he said that was wrong. He said a lot of things are wrong, but that's probably the biggest easiest one to point out.
Yeah, And I think it also was interesting because that was one of the things that got followed up on by reporters. But the reporter was like, well, you can also get it from like reusing needles, which like yeah, but like not not mentioning the whole. You can get it from being born, a thing that everyone has to do. Statistically, this is true. The statistics bear that out.
That is true.
Yeah, but percent rate of being born in order to exist.
That's exactly exact, exactly right.
You know why, I realized why Trump says this, This is the realization I came to he doesn't even think about this as a possible mode of transmission. If you've ever seen a delivery, I don't know if you have mia, but if you've ever seen someone give birth, whether it's natural, vaginal or cesarean or whatever, whatever method, there's a lot of fluids, blood, mucus. There's a lot of fluids happening
during this time exchange between mother and baby. And if you saw that, I think you'd be like, oh, well, yeah, that makes sense that you would get it that way. If you do get it through sex, why couldn't you get it through that? You know, if you could get it by putting a penis into a vagina, for example, why couldn't you get it from being birth from one? So you would you would see that, you would It
would make sense to you inherently and automatically. My guess is that Trump has not seen any of his kids delivered.
That that would not surprise me.
I mean, if he was in a nearby room, I would be impressed in Edwa cast aspersions on our president. I don't know. Maybe he was there, you know, cutting the umbilical corridor. I don't know, but I get the sense he was not, and I feel like that's why in his mind he doesn't even register it.
And then then the other thing that makes that's weird about this is he's like, Oh, it's just me.
I say that they get the shot at the age of twelve because it's sexually transmitted, And that makes me wonder And I'm surprised no one's brought this up. Why does he think that's okay? Then does he think that kids are having sex at the age of twelve and that's okay?
Why did why did twelve become the number for him? It's so weird and I don't know that's truly one of the There is something just deeply evil going on in his mind, but I have no idea what it is, and I can't follow the path of logic because I'm not like a billionaire who was born in like the fifties or whatever.
I don't know that that guy has seen.
That guy has gotten brain word from things that like don't exist anymore.
No, he was born in the forties.
Sorry, my apologies for thinking he was born a full decade later than he actually was.
Good lord, Yeah, I mean I think the results are still the same.
Yeah, but I mean it's like, you know, there's just like there's prejudices and weird stuff that he picked up rattling around there that like who knows where they came from. And I think also, you know, one of the other ankles about this this sort of really distressing is this like what feels like the sort of stigmatizing aspect of it of just being like, oh, well, there's something you can only get like sexually transmitted, so like why are
we giving this to kids? And it's like, well, yeah, but like there's just like a bunch of other ways that you can get it, and like only talking about that one and then having it as an excuse to like raise the vaccination age for no reason.
In that you know, again goes.
Back to the MMR thing, because you know, when we talk about giving these doses the who the CDC, they recommend the birth vaccine within twenty four hours are the first at least. Then the current schedule is you get at birth and follow up set one to two months, and then again at six to fifteen months. And part of the thing of stretching that out, pushing that out further again, same thing as the MMR, which is the more likely you are to not do it at all
and to have decreased uptake. Yeah, so this is the real reason why that's a concern.
Yeah, And it's this sort of decreased uptake is their goal, right, Like that's what they want. Like that's why RFKI Junior, for example, is making it increasingly difficult to get like the COVID vaccine and the flu vaccine and stuff like that.
And it's, you know, they're doing this sort of like double pronged approach of both establishing it from the top down through the medical bureaucracy of taking control of and also just like spreading it among their supporters and among people who are like, oh that the President wouldn't just like lie to me about medical stuff, right, that's unreasonable.
And I mean if you didn't know, if you didn't know that there was another means of transmission, what he said is reasonable. You know, why would you give an infant a vaccine for something they could only get through sex. I mean, yeah, you bet sure that makes sense, but it's just wrong.
Yeah, it's kind.
Of pointless to ask the question does he know he's lying on this one?
But I don't think he is.
I honestly don't think he understands. I think he probably did hear that there are some other modes of transmission, and in his mind it requires some sort of blood contact or some sort of mucosal contact in his mind, and that's how he interpreted it. And I think he just doesn't equate that with childbirth. I think he assumes that, like because the child he sees comes out like perfectly wrapped and cleaned and you know, looks like a little baby in like a blanket when he sees it. Yeah,
So I think I think that's the thing. I think he believes this. I don't think he's lying on purpose.
On this one. Yeah, that makes sense, And I think I don't know.
I think it's an interesting aspect of this is that this is like it was kind of just a Trump thing, right, Like this is like one of the parts of it that like RFK Junior and Martin McCary didn't really talk about. It was just Trump kind of just like started talking about it for reasons that are deeply unclear.
Yeah.
I mean, Martin McCarry is an interesting guy, and I think he did some good things in the past, and it's done some not so great things, some bad things.
Yeah, would not be so in this administration.
This may shock you, Mia, but Trump picked somebody for a high level position that might be a little problematic.
Well, especially this version of the administration too, where it's like in Trump won, it was possible for them for him to appoint someone random and it kind of be like Department of Energy, right right, They put Rick Perry, who famously would call to a well forgot that it was the thing that he wanted to abolish, but then he got in charge of it, and the Department of Energy of people like explained to him this is this is where the nuke stuff is. And then he was like, sure, whatever,
fucking go run this. I'll just stay out of everyone's way. And that kind of works. Fine that he's not happening this administration, you are not getting You're actualting Rick Perry going to like a make worksipshop, letting the bureaucrats run the actual stuff.
How wild it is that we long for the days of Rick Perry.
Yeah, the days when someone could explain to you, hey, this is the department that does the nukes, and they'd be and they would change their opinion about it.
Staggering incredible.
So let me tell you a little bit more about this McCrary character. Yeah, so he is a surgeon. I don't think he practice as a surgeon anymore, but he's sort of a health policy expertly self fashioned as one. And he's the person that was tapped by Donald Trump.
To leave the FDA.
You've seen him on Fox News a lot, and he's been very outspoken about pandemic policies in the past. He was noted as one of the greatest perpetrators of COVID misinformation during those times when they people fact checked him
again and again found that he was wrong. But the thing about him that you may or may not know how I first learned him and how he popped up on my radar a while back, was he is the person that's responsible for this claim that medical error is the third leading cause of death in the United States. Sometimes that's cited as second. Yes, that's him, he's the person, oh boy, right. Which there's a lot of issues with this claim. It is at best controversial. It's based on
extrapolated data. There was no formal methodology that went into him doing this. It totally misrepresents the complexity of healthcare and health care outcomes. But It's like the herpees of medical misinformation because it always comes back. No matter how many times it gets disproven or people talk about it, it always comes back, and it's always used as this. It's an inherent part of the belief structure of these
anti vaxxers. It is taken as gospel now. But back in twenty sixteen, basically he wrote this BMJ paper that estimated something like two hundred and fifty thousand deaths per year in US hospitals were due to medical errors. But again, was not a formal study. It presented no new data, and it didn't have any sort of real rigorous statistical method behind it. It kind of averaged figures from different sources.
It doesn't actually even work because death certificates don't capture medical error, so it's hard to really study that even if you wanted to. But anyways, long story short, no matter how many times people disprove this or make arguments that work against it, it never goes away.
So that's him. That's McCary. Oh boy, oh boy. And he's not running the FDA. Oh yeah, which is great.
We put the worst people in charge of quite possibly the most important part of our country.
Yeah, I mean, just the Health and Human Service is run by RFK Junior is just when he first took office, my line on it was millions we'll die. And we are so incredibly on track for millions to die from just this guy and his people being put in charge.
Yeah, I mean, I should say one more thing about maccarury before we move on from him that claim. You know, I wouldn't say that medical error isn't an issue. I think it is a very serious issue. Even if there's one or two cases in the whole country, it's a serious issue and that should be addressed. But what he's doing is I think harmful. I don't think that is helping in any way. I think it's only made things worse by contributing to where we're at today with our
anti vaxstance, our whole anti intellectual approach to medicine. And that's a thing that they do. This is the thing they take a little kernel of truth. If there is any lack of knowledge, that there's any slight vacuum in understanding, it gets filled with these bad actors, these people, and he is, in my opinion.
One of them, but still somehow not the worst, you know, not The worst is one of those bars in the Trump administration where it's not even the bar solo, it's on the ground. The bar is so low that like you have to go digging to get under the bar. And it's not like a little bit of digging, it's a lot of digging because the bar truly is below hell. There's like a second hell down there to find this bar for where these people are.
Oh god, it's second hell. Every time I look into any of these people. Just yeah, no, no, you're never gonna be surprised.
Hes get hit a marine with an axe?
Like this guy's just the Secretary of Defense now he's like he's the guy going and yelling at the general.
This is the guy who.
Was on Fox News and he's just throwing an axe and he threw it over the targy and it hit a bunch of marines, Like what are we doing here?
Well, whom amongst us hasn't done that? Maybe he is the real Antifa.
Yeah that's trutch.
You.
I have never hit a marine with an axe. Yeah, so yeah, well there you go. Huh tragic.
Talma, Do you have anything else that you want to tell our dear listeners.
About this whole debacle. Get your vaccines, Yeah, you know, get your vaccines. Get vaccinated. Now's the time to start doing it for flu and COVID. If you can, talk to your doctor. If you're having difficulty getting your vaccine from your local places, your regular places, talk to your doctor about getting it. You should still be able to in most cases. So do it while you can. And if you want to hear more about this stuff, make sure to check out my podcast, The House of Pod.
We're going to talk about the stuff a lot more. We'll talk about other stuff too, but you'll hear more on this along the way as well. And you know, I like that people are questioning some of these things. I don't think it's unreasonable. Some of these topics are not unreasonable to have. You know, we as I discussed earlier on another podcast on this channel, channels that we say on this network, I should say the title and all autism question is not like a totally wacky, crazy one.
It was a decent question to ask. There was some correlation, but the evidence when you look at it, shows that it is very likely not a causal relationship when you look at the evidence, And I think it's okay to have some of these conversations, and sometimes it takes a little nuance when you look at them. But I encourage people to continue to do so, and to keep reading, and to find trusted sources and look at those and
learn about them yourself. I think if nothing else good comes from all this, it's that people are starting to have an understanding of antibodies and the science behind vaccines. And I think that's not a bad thing. So, I mean, things are terrible. Things are terrible. There's so many bad things in the world. But I will say this, I see bright spots constantly. I see more and more people who care about science. I see more and more people than I ever have before care about important topics across
the world. They're not scientific, like gaza, for example. I've seen more people care about things that I've ever seen before in my long life, and I feel like that's a good thing. There are bright spots out there and that's what I cling to. And I see more people interested in this. People want to talk to me about hepatitis B and what it is and how to avoid it. And I think that's great. So there's some good coming from this.
Yeah, And you know, and this is I think the fundamental thing that both the media apparatus and the regime are trying to conceal, which is that there are more of us in the ear of them.
M m.
There always have been, and especially right now, there are way more of us. And you know, their ability to shape the world is disastrous, but their ability to shape the world as fundamentally a minoritarian force in this country right with like thirty to forty percent of the population is always going to be limited and always is always going to be in danger of simply being reversed. Yeah, and we can be that reversal, one person.
At a time. Yeah, I love that.
Well, kymye, thank you for being on the show, and go listen to House of Pod. It's great, it's all thank you.
Yeah, we're okay.
You could do worse.
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